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The Mormon group – whether they like it or not
Vocal Point performs on NBC's the Sing Off with host Nick Lachey.
December 8th, 2011
01:33 PM ET

The Mormon group – whether they like it or not

By Dan Merica, CNN

(CNN) – When Shane Wright met with members of Vocal Point, a Brigham Young University a cappella group that was considering competing on NBC's singing show "The Sing Off," the main question he had for the nine male students had nothing to do with their singing talent.

Wright, the artist manager at BYU, wanted to know if the team was prepared to not only represent themselves and their school but to be viewed through the audience's understanding of Mormonism.

"I went around the room and asked the guys, how would you handle this or that type of question or situation," Wright said. "In our meeting we discussed several scenarios. I wanted to get them thinking about various situations before they were put in the fire."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints oversees BYU, and the members of the singing team Vocal Point, whether they liked it or not, were going to be representing the church on primetime television. And with a recent Pew Research poll finding that nearly 25 percent of people have negative views of the Mormon Church, Vocal Point would be representing a misunderstood and at times maligned religion.

According to multiple members of the team, while representing their faith was not necessarily something they sought to do, it was a reality they knew they had to accept.

"We knew that a connection would be made between us and the Mormon Church whether we tried to or not," said Keith Evans, a 25-year-old member of the BYU team.

"Because the church has an obscure image, we thought this would be a great opportunity to show that this church is made up of normal people and is not as esoteric as people think," said Evans.

Other members hoped the team would show what young Mormons are really like and that they "do normal things."

McKay Crockett, a 24-year-old Mormon member of the team, said that while the team did understand there were misconceptions of the Mormon faith, their goal was "to show that Mormons are a lot like [everyone else] and we live life a lot like they do. It was a daunting task, but I do think we were able to do that in our kind of humble, awkward way on the Sing Off."

Vocal Point lasted a majority of the show, beating 11 other teams to finish fifth. The team sang a variety of songs, too. While they got high marks for an Elvis medley and their take on "Jump, Jive an' Wail," the judges said they were stretched by the Temptations "Ain't Too Proud to Beg" and Puff Daddy's "I'll Be Missing You."

No matter the song, though, a connection to the Mormon Church was regularly made. Fans left comments about the team's Mormon faith on message boards and Mormon newspapers and blogs began following Vocal Point's weekly progress.

The shows judges commented on the team's religion, too.

After the team sang a cover of Justin Beiber's "Never Say Never," singer/songwriter Ben Folds, one of the shows three judges, said, "I will never again say that I could never enjoy Beiber sung by a bunch of Mormons." Sarah Bareilles, also a singer/songwriter, described the group as a bunch of "wholesome thunder cats."

On the whole, said Evans, the response from the Mormon community was "largely positive."

"Maybe a person or two objected to one of our song selections," said Evans. "Some of them thought it was a bit too wild and crazy for a bunch of Mormon guys."

But Evans says that the fact that at times the team could get "a bit wild and crazy" shows that, "we [Mormons] are allowed to be a little wild and crazy. We are allowed to have a good time."

The judges kicked the team off the show after the R&B week, where Vocal Point sang the aforementioned Temptations song, along with a rendition of Bobby Brown's "Every Little Step."

Jake Hunsaker, a 22-year-old member of the team, said that though the loss was "disappointing," the team felt privileged to have gone as far as they did.

"I think for us it is a privilege to represent members of the Mormon faith," said Hunsaker. "Just to be able to expose people to what a Mormon is like, to be able to represent Mormons and let people know that we are normal was an honor."

Members of Vocal Point said that they were humbled by the experience and are a little stunned by the way people recognize them around BYU and Provo, Utah.

With a bit of sarcasm, Evans said that ultimately he hoped Vocal Point showed people that "a Mormon's faith isn't so different to the point that they create some weird species of person that is unapproachable."

And jokingly Evans said he wanted people to know that Mormons are good singers.

CNN's Martina Stewart contributed to this report.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Entertainment • Mormonism

soundoff (312 Responses)
  1. Faith-Isn't-A-Preacher

    Talk about at maligning.
    "And with a recent Pew Research poll finding that nearly 25 percent of people have negative views of the Mormon Church, Vocal Point would be representing a misunderstood and at times maligned religion."
    Why could the sentence have been:
    And with a recent Pew Research poll finding that nearly 75 percent of the people have positive views of the Mormon Church, Vocal Point would be representing an understood and at times praised religion.
    Come on people, find the good in the world.

    December 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm |
  2. Tim Hurst

    dumb da dumb da dumb.

    December 8, 2011 at 9:46 pm |
  3. Blessed Geek

    While evangelicals strive to be a "peculiar" people,
    mormons strive to be normal.

    December 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      Sure they do.

      http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/12/08/michelle-duggar-suffers-miscarriage-report-says/?test=faces

      December 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
    • Teddy69

      The Duggar's are Baptists, not Mormons.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      Or so they claim.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:13 pm |
  4. PKinTX

    Why does it matter that they are Mormon or not? Does that change how well they sing or whether or not they can win? The winners of season one (NOTA) and season two (Committed) are Seventh-day Adventist (a small denomination within Protestantism) in their religious background. Did this have an impact on singing? Did it give them an advantage or disadvantage? No. They were just the best singers.

    December 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Kodiac

      Because some people are petty.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • TXpresby

      because there are 2 Mormons running for the GOP nomination for president.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
  5. Jason

    Dear Mormon Haters: Something to chew on.

    In most religions, the more educated its members become, the more likely they are to leave. The opposite is true of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's most active members are those with graduate degrees. Furthermore, similar to the Jewish Population, the "Mormon" population boasts a much higher percentage of PhDs, MD's, etc. than the general population. It is pretty hard to square this with the notion that all of us Mormons are a bunch of mindless idiots participating in a "cult." I guarantee there is "more to the story."

    December 8, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You said: "It's most active members are those with graduate degrees." So you intended to say "It is most active members are those with graduate degrees"? Is that what you meant? I just want to be sure.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      So what you're saying is that the college of choice for mormons is the university of Phoenix.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • glenn

      Of course, Jason, thanks for explaining the connection between Jews and Mormons. That firms up the Book of Mormon story that a boat load of Jews arrived in America and were greeted by Jesus...who darkened the bad ones, otherwise referred to as "native americans". NOW JASON – PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THERE IS NO GENETIC LINK BETWEEN JEWS AND NAVAJOS? IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN THIS, I'LL JOIN THE ELITE CLUB CALLED "LATTER DAY SAINTS".

      December 8, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • once a mormon

      I was a mormon until I became a lawyer and actually reviewed the evidence as a rational person should approach anything of such import. I can honestly say that none of my mormon friends have the slightest idea what the truth is about Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is about as fiction as any book ever written. I heard an "apostle" speak and say that the book had never been proven false. All mormons nod and go on with their lives as though that is true. It couldn't be further from the truth. There are literally thousands factual points in the book of Mormon that prove it is false. None of my Mormon friends are aware of any of them. Scientist have tested the DNA of every possible tribe from Ancient America and not a shred of Israel DNA can be found. That alone proves Joseph's story is fiction. And I could give you 1000 more examples. And most members have no idea that the Church has many different version of the First Vision - each remarkably different as Joseph changed the story through time as needed and as his theology formed. In his first account he did not even see an angel...then he saw an angel but not Jesus, then he saw God, and then he tells of seeing two personages. The remarkable thing is that the Mormon culture can be so good at keeping smart and educated people from taking a moment to consider the evidence....really consider it. Instead members (many intelligent people) will shrug and say, I can feel it in my heart...the spirit has told me and I cannot deny. Well, many different religions...many people willing to give their lives for their convictions feel the same way about their religion. Who is right? I can tell you with absolute certainty...it is not the Mormons.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:06 pm |
    • Jason

      once a mormon,

      Your credentials as a lawyer do not mean that your analysis is correct. Three of the twelve apostles were lawyers before being called full time to the ministry. Every single tribe hasn't been tested, nor has the testing conducted definitively proven anything, particularly when taking into account what the Book of Mormon actually says (and does not say) about the people it describes. The belief of many members in the Book of Mormon is not just based on "feelings," but also on the incredible life-changing insights and internal consistency this Book displays. The balance of proof supporting the Book's authenticity is heavier now than it has ever been. Certainly though, there are, as you say, many aspects of the Book that most modern scientist and archeologists state can't be true. However, such is also the case of the Bible. There are also many aspects of the Book which past scientists and archeologists stated could not be true which have since been proven could absolutely be true and do not conflict with newer paradigms created by newer discoveries.

      December 9, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • Joe Smith

      Dear Jason,
      Please give more support for the statement "The balance of proof supporting the Book's authenticity is heavier now than it has ever been." I know you mean well, but the sad truth is that there is literally zero proof. You are clearly intelligent and articulate. But sadly you just don’t have all the information. Have you ever read the letters in Joseph’s handwriting to the young girls he wanted to have intercourse with while married to emma? Do you know that there was no religious revival where Joseph lived at the time he supposedly sought direction from God as a boy? That revival happened when he was an adult and he tried to join the Methodist Church. Do you know he was convicted (before there was any religious controversy about him) for fraud - he would look into his hat at a peeping stone and tell his employer where they should dig for buried treasure? Did you know that is why Emma’s father didn’t want her to marry him? Did you know that this was the same method he used to “translate” the Book of Mormon? Have you ever read about the Kinderhook plates? Do you know that Joseph mistakenly left italics in the portion of the Book of Isaiah, italics that were put there in the modern day long after the version that was allegedly copied by ancient prophets into the plates? Those italics represent additions modern authors added. The Nephites would not have had these modern additions in the brass plates. The list goes on and on. No rational person who actually sought and looked for the evidence could conclude it is true. I don't know any Mormon who will look. Looking outside approven sources is a lack of faith. I am sorry you are still trapped in the matrix. I hope one day you step outside…truth is beautiful.

      December 9, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
    • Joe

      Jason, I think your comment is right on, and, as we see below, those who leave the Church are those who aren't willing to educate themselves (especially the proud learned). It's interesting how so many people don't have the courage to investigate. They read a little anti-propaganda, hear that little discussion by Coe on Mormon not thinking, etc and they drop everything and run...it's really sad. Then, when all the new anti-Mormon claims are proven false (and they are, I could give a big list, starting with DNA (the people most closely related to Native Americans are Jews and Central Asians (which was settled by Israelites) and now people are claiming Jews aren't actually Jews (proven by DNA) etc and there is a whole bunch of new evidence coming out showing that, without question, there is a Middle Eastern/ancient American connection etc ) but those who want to doubt just go on believing whatever it was that they want to believe.....and become professional anti-Mormons..... We all know there is no valid claim against the Book of Mormon, if there were, it would all be over. You can't be LDS and not know about what the haters are saying....we all know, but only some run away without really examining.... you can find some good articles on FAIR lds if you dare....

      December 11, 2011 at 7:03 am |
    • Joe

      Jason, your comment is right on, and, as we see below, those who leave the Church are those who aren't willing to educate themselves (especially the proud learned). It's interesting how so many people don't have the courage to investigate. They read a little anti-propaganda, hear that little discussion by Coe on Mormon not thinking, etc and they drop everything and run...it's really sad. Then, when all the new anti-Mormon claims are proven false (and they are, I could give a big list, starting with DNA (the people most closely related to Native Americans are Jews and Central Asians (which was settled by Israelites) and now people are claiming Jews aren't actually Jews (proven by DNA) etc and there is a whole bunch of new evidence coming out showing that, without question, there is a Middle Eastern/ancient American connection etc ) but those who want to doubt just go on believing whatever it was that they want to believe.....and become professional anti-Mormons..... We all know there is no valid claim against the Book of Mormon, if there were, it would all be over. You can't be LDS and not know about what the haters are saying....we all know, but only some run away without really examining.... you can find some good articles on FAIR lds if you dare....

      December 11, 2011 at 7:07 am |
  6. Joeseph Smith created a hoax.

    The thing is, the Joe Smith of 1835 didn't have access to today's scientific discoveries. He had no idea horses, cattle, wheat, and iron were not present in America when he made his story up. He didn't know about the Rosetta Stone and our ability to now translate Egyptian. He didn't know Indians came over from Siberia and not Isreal. He didn't know these things. We've learned a lot about American history since Joseph Smith's time, and everything in the book of Mormon can be demostrated as false. Sorry Mormons, your Lamenites, Nephites and Jordanites never existed, and you won't find one credible Non-LDS scientist, linguist, or archeologist that will state otherwise.

    Joseph Smith's story is that of fiction, pure and simple. It is NOT a historical record of the ancient inhabitants of America.

    That said, Mormons are wonderful people.. they just believe in something that is pure fantasy. http://www.mormonthink.org

    December 8, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
    • david

      Can you believe this?
      Birthplace for the earth – According to several LDS writers (such as Cleon Skousen in his book The First 2000 Years), the earth was created near Kolob over a period of 6000 years (six "days" in Kolob time), and then moved to its present position in our solar system. IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THIS...JOIN THE MORMON CHURCH.

      P.S. Kolob is also God's planet home...there is soooo much more to learn in the Book o' Mormon...there is a great chapter on polygamy, and much much more...

      December 8, 2011 at 8:36 pm |
    • Winter

      @JS and Dave-That was enlightening!

      December 8, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • db

      @david –show me where in the Book of Mormon it says that God's planet is called Kolob. I guarantee it is not in the Book of Mormon. As such, you have no credibility.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • Ignorance

      David . . . While there are some "strange" beliefs in Mormonism, none of the strange beliefs that either one of you actually appear in the Book of Mormon. Clean Skouson, for instance, is NOT church doctrine. He was, exactly as you stated, an author.

      Obviously, it sounds like you have never read the Book of Mormon for yourself. You have merely stated second hand the same anti-Mormon arguments which have been passed out second hand for years. For one, there is NOT a single chapter within the Book of Mormon which talks about polygamy – with exception of Jacob, Chapter 2. The chapter actually condemns the unauthorized practiced on polygamy. Also, give me one reference from the Book of Mormon which even mentions Kolob.

      So my beef is not do much that you think that Mormonism is strange. My beef is that you don't even seem to have an informed opinion. If you want to bash Mormonism, go right ahead, but please, actually know what you are talking about. So, with that said, I would highly encourage you to actually know something for yourself firsthand before you start suggesting that others are ignorant.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      KOLOB:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

      "The first published reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, first published in the 1842 newspaper Times and Seasons, and now included within the Pearl of Great Price as part of the canon of Mormonism. The Book of Abraham was dictated in 1836 by Latter Day Saint movement founder Joseph Smith, Jr., after he purchased a set of Egyptian scrolls that accompanied a mummy exhibition. When this exhibit passed through Smith's town of Kirtland, Ohio, Smith was approached about the scrolls based on his reputation for having published translations of ancient texts such as the golden plates. According to Smith, the scrolls described a vision of Abraham, in which Abraham:

      "saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest."[6]

      In an explanation of an Egyptian hypocephalus that was part of the Book of Abraham scrolls, Joseph Smith interpreted one set of hieroglyphics as representing:

      "Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh."[7] "

      December 8, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • db

      @david, also there is no chapter in the Book of Mormon about polygamy. Any truth to anything you say? 😉

      December 8, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      Oh, and from LDS.org:

      http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng

      December 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • Ignorance

      My apologies, that first sentence should have read "While there are some "strange" beliefs in Mormonism, none of the strange beliefs that you mention actually appear in the Book of Mormon. Cleon Skouson, for instance, is NOT church doctrine. He was, exactly as you stated, an author."

      December 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • King of Hawai'i

      does this religion really hurt your feelings brah, its funny because you and your kind like so many others focus on insucnifficant details about the church when and when some other church does something wrong ur people ignore it. now when a mormon boy drinks some caffinated drink or kisses his girl friend or something the event is posted all over the universe. u knw why....... because u and satan knw tht this is god's true church brah, why then would u and the rest hate his disiples, i dont see the cameras on the other church down the street, gotta mean something when the whole world against you. yeah so why dont u think about brah, because a young teenaged boy just posted this. HANA LEI!!!

      December 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      Dog the Bounty Hunter is going to be crashing that meth lab of yours pretty soon.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • King of Hawai'i

      oh yea and all u dead beats who have no life but sit on the pc all day, why dont u get a life brah, hahahahah!!!!! HANA LEI KEIKEIS!!!!!!

      December 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • glenn

      So there is no planet called Kolob???? Read on...

      3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is a Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
    • Book of Moron

      Better to sit in front of a computer than to not be able to properly articulate the English language. Was it your choice, or are you just a product of your environment?

      December 8, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
  7. yeap that's right

    its all in the briefs

    December 8, 2011 at 8:12 pm |
  8. Tech

    Religion is not going to solve the world's problems in the next 50 years. Science is. All hail a new religion............Science!

    December 8, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • Jonesy

      ...or maybe both can. Neither should be against each other.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
  9. glenn

    Here are some great Mormon lyrics:
    – "our God has his own planet called Kolob...does yours?"
    – "American Indians are really Jews that crossed the ocean in an airtight submarine..."
    – "there is not one place in the Book of Mormon that exists on Earth – Joseph Smith made it all up"
    All these lyrics are true and believed by MORMONS....

    December 8, 2011 at 7:37 pm |
    • ShellyGirl

      You remind me of those loving Christians that keep the second commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. I might be wrong, maybe you belong to the Christian Taliban, you know the type, they have no tolerance for anyone but their own.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:53 pm |
    • HS

      Tolerance is for the weak. We have to be strong through Christ.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • david

      OK...let's clear the air here. Everytime the media decides to do another "Mormon story" they really are amplifying the fact that the Mormons are an "unusual bunch" that is often misunderstood. So stories like these simply invite the public to submit editorials that poke holes into the HUGE mess that the Mormon church has because the "Book of Mormon" has zero historical relevance. I agree with glenn. In fact, the Jews genetic connection to Native Americans has been proven FALSE and that is the basis of the origins of the Mormon faith. Let them sing, dance, and run for president – just be ready for the TRUTH.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
    • HEDIDWHAT?

      you mean to tell us that this Joe Smith wrote the book of mormon????

      December 8, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      David.. all religions have crazy ideas and beliefs..its only when they are actually printed out, and read by folks of other religions they find it hard to believe that others can be so dumb as not to understand" their truth". Look at the crazy stuff Catholics believe, and Muslims..yet any other adherent to another religion will call them crazy to believe what they do.. As an atheist I look at them all as equally bizarre.. and find it difficult to understand why other wise intelligent people think it is meant to be real.

      December 9, 2011 at 1:06 am |
  10. Deodorant Sam

    Past the seeker as he prayed
    came the crippled
    and the beggar
    and the beaten.
    And seeing them... he cried,
    "Great God, how is it that a loving creator
    can see such things
    and yet do nothing about them?"
    God said,
    "I did do something.
    I made
    YOU
    believe in something
    so stupid
    that in 2000 years
    you will get bashed
    on the CNN comment boards
    for being an idiot."
    – GOD

    December 8, 2011 at 7:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Atheists don't lie, cheat or steal.

      Hollow comes to mind.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
  11. ed

    hahahahah yes.....using the bible to prove jesus is real..is like jk rowling using the harry potter books to prove wizards are real......

    December 8, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
    • Mapper

      wait a minute... so if jesus isn't real... that means wizards aren't real either?!? DAMN YOU HARRY POTTER!

      December 8, 2011 at 7:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      My guess she loved reading J.R.R. Tolkien’s books Lord of the Ring, The Hobbit etc.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
  12. The Phist

    This article has just given me the runs.

    December 8, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
  13. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

    Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. And I'm an ugly and fat saggy old hag. And I fa-rt too much.

    December 8, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • Deodorant Sam

      And... you need some deodorant...Ack.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
    • Deodorant Sam

      So why didn't they bring out the magical golden table.... oh yeah that's right... joseph smith said they aren't around anymore. Oh yeah, that's right.

      I can see many religions following this belief in a magic sky fairy, but for people to believe this Joseph Smith translated tablets, jesus was on the north american continent are just pathetic. At least other religions have survived for a couple of thousand years... Mormonism shouldn't be around much longer with any luck. These deluded cultists can't see how stupid they really are.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • gofista

      He also gave us an opportunity to feel happiness. The choice is ours.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      It's back as the phony heavensent.

      LOL.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:36 pm |
  14. Walter Mitty

    Good job, Vocal Point. You sang well.

    To all the Mormon-haters/religion bashers: Hate and vitriol will never make you feel better about yourself.

    December 8, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
    • Deodorant Sam

      No you're wrong. Making people feel stupid for following a CULT makes me feel pretty damn good about myself. Hopefully I'm doing them some good by making them reflect on the beliefs that have been hammered into their heads by their family and "Church" members.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
    • SW

      Thank you for being the only one to have a positive comment, so far that I've read, on here.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm |
    • david

      OK...so they sang well. So did Donny and Marie. That does not change the fact that their beliefs are founded on:
      1. A criminal named Joseph Smith, who stole the fraternal secrets of the Masonic Lodge, started his own religion that included polygamy.
      2. Mormon teachings that are founded on the belief that the American Indians are decendents of a Jewish tribe that landed in Central America.
      3. A principle that every male Mormon can attain his own "celestial planet/heaven" and will have all of his wives living with him.
      Had enough? Don't ask a Mormon because they really don't want to admit this stuff...it gets deeper.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:30 pm |
    • ILOVECULTSIWANTTOBEINONE

      I just went poo in my magic underwear because you are so awesome.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      and there darn comfortable to

      December 8, 2011 at 9:08 pm |
  15. ThisIsWhy

    I'd swear sometimes that all of you are one angry schizophrenic person.

    December 8, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
  16. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

    Wow, god must be quite the cruel azzhole.

    December 8, 2011 at 4:11 pm |
    • Curious

      Are there atheists in azzholes?

      December 8, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, I just received this answer in an e-mail the other day.

      Past the seeker as he prayed
      came the crippled
      and the beggar
      and the beaten.
      And seeing them... he cried,
      "Great God, how is it that a loving creator
      can see such things
      and yet do nothing about them?"
      God said,
      "I did do something.
      I made
      YOU."

      ~Anonymous

      December 8, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Okay, HS, if God made you to care for those in need, why are you here? There's nobody who's asking for your help here-no one is being changed by your posts. Why don't you go and actually DO what Christ commanded you to do?

      December 8, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
    • Jimtanker

      @Curious

      There ain't any, even in the foxholes, there is none, even a single atheist.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, temper, temper Tommie Tom "Okay, HS, if God made you to care for those in need, why are you here? There's nobody who's asking for your help here-no one is being changed by your posts. Why don't you go and actually DO what Christ commanded you to do?"

      Answer: I am doing what Jesus asked us to do. I find loving homes for furry friends. In other words ... I work from home taking care of animals before placement occurs.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
    • Keith

      tammy the liar hypocrite, this is a belief blog if you haven't noticed.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Guess what, HS? So do I. Don't you feel special now?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, look. Here's Keith, the lost soul. Have you found "Murpheesboro, TN" yet, Keith?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      um so your helping animals because Jesus asked,.. dude i give humanitarian aid to suffering kids every winter because times are hard life’s not easy. I do it because it’s the right thing to do not because Jesus asked. In fact the only this JC asked of me was to follow or burn at the stake,….

      December 8, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Oh! and according to the bible I’m still going to hell.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • Keith

      Looks who's still hung up on me. Must suck not having a life.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Umm, yeah, honey. That MUST be it.

      Maybe HS can help you with geography when she's finished her spelling homework, Keith.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • Keith

      Perhaps tammy the liar is the fake HS as she appears to be the fake Keith. Awesome tactic you have there liar.

      December 9, 2011 at 7:50 am |
    • Keith

      tammy the liar, I'll do my geography homework as soon a you're done with your grammar. "laws do" or "law does" remember? Hypocrite.

      December 9, 2011 at 7:53 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, I must have hit a nerve with the "mightY warrior". Poor little dweeb.

      December 9, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • Keith

      Not really tammy, I just like pointing out to others the fact that you are a hypocrite and a liar. You criticize people for making spelling or grammatical errors when you do the same damn thing yourself. i.e. HYPOCRITE! You impersonate others on this blog. i.e. DECEIVER! You claim people didn't answer your questions, when in fact they did. i.e. LIAR! Every time I see you on the blog running your mouth and spewing lies and deceit-I'll be all to happy to expose you for who you are so new-comers to the blog can see.

      December 10, 2011 at 7:56 am |
  17. Reality

    Dear Vocal Point,

    Some facts not taught at BYU:

    • There probably was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • There probably was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    That being said, I enjoyed your singing on Sing Off. Great job!!!

    December 8, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • Ironicus

      To each his own as they say...!

      December 8, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • manaen

      Here's my reality.

      A couple of decades ago, I hit the wall and was ready to take myself out of this world. I'm grateful that Christ's atonement, as I received it through patient, loving Mormon leaders saved my life and then the Holy Ghost healed my soul. From that moment, I've had no desire for what had held me captive and was destroying me.

      Reality is what I experience every day in my new life.

      "I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath redeemed my soul from hell."
      - 2 Nephi 6:33

      December 8, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • ryan

      In order for something to be a "fact" the word "probably" should not be included.

      December 8, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • Walter Mitty

      Do you feel better now?

      December 8, 2011 at 6:07 pm |
    • Reality

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen

      Some of the references used:

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/- the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

      3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
      – "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
      4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
      7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
      8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
      joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
      9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998

      December 8, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Manaen, God Bless you.

      Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

      John 14:27

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Yes I’m still a religion.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      oh and Moses did exist there is several confirming historical docu.ments not only the bible but Babylonian, Persian, and Egyptian. Buddha is a stage of enlightenment you don’t have to be the’ Buddha to be Buddha. Easter is celebrations of spring are you really saying there is no spring. And finally all life is sacred a human, a cow, a tree, the earth denying the sacred is denying the foundations of morality.

      http://www.thersa.org/events/video/vision-videos/the-power-of-the-sacred

      December 8, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • wellnow

      Did you see that on the History channel, or did you Google it.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:22 pm |
    • Actually

      While your argument is interesting, it is irrelevant because Mormons do not believe in the Christian faith. They are a cult created by a convicted con artist who's father was a "professional treasure hunter" and who's mother was the town witch (she practiced black magic). Also, you did not provide any facts in your statements, just assumptions. Better luck next time though!

      December 8, 2011 at 7:44 pm |
    • Reality

      When ancient men like Abraham and Moses are reviewed historically by contemporary scholars, "probably" did not exist is the best historians can do with the evidence available.

      To wit:

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel – not one shard of pottery."
      ==========================================================================================

      December 8, 2011 at 11:58 pm |
    • Reality

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection/Easter Con:

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie talking thingies".

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      December 9, 2011 at 12:00 am |
  18. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

    Wow, god must be quite the azzhole.

    December 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent is a sore looser when trying to debate anything in life.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • ....

      "Phony heavensent is a sore looser when trying to debate anything in life."

      pot meet kettle...kettle meet pot.

      The log just keeps getting bigger and bigger doesn't it in that eye of yours.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • potpotsie

      HeavenSent, you are indeed not heaven sent. Moron.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      .... here's the back up troops.

      You folks are lacking creative thinking.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Better that than being a "loser" who doesn't know that "looser" describes what the screws in your head are becoming, HS.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      ...., Typical, along with no creativity on your attacks but keep that back up duties delusion of happening (LOL).

      Answer: The only kettle I see brewing is the non-believers needing to join in on the back up baloney as they go on the attack. Go ahead and admit it. Jesus already wrote about you folks thousands of years ago and you can't stand it.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      ...sez HS, as she practices writing "loser, looser, loser, looser."

      December 8, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
  19. Grant

    I'm thinking that HS is one of Michelle Bachmann's foster kids.

    December 8, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
    • Ironicus

      I'm thinking you might be right....

      December 8, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Grant, I may be older than Bachmann.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

      Wow, god must be quite the mean azzhole.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I noticed Tommie Tom isn't using it's handle today.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Felix The Navidad

      You have kicked poor tom to the curb so many times she is left a bitter, frustrated loser. Home licking her wounds perhaps. The thought of that just turned my stomach. Even an animal would retch licking tom tom.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • what?

      "You have kicked poor tom to the curb so many times she is left a bitter, frustrated loser. Home licking her wounds perhaps. The thought of that just turned my stomach. Even an animal would retch licking tom tom."

      No, she has a life because she isn't a tired old hag full of hate stewing at home.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, please. I'm blushing, herbie. And HS, I didn't know you cared so much.

      Really, thank you both. It's so nice to know I'm always on your minds. What's left of them, anyway.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:38 pm |
    • Answer

      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, please. I'm blushing, herbie. And HS, I didn't know you cared so much.

      Really, thank you both. It's so nice to know I'm always on your minds. What's left of them, anyway.

      - Funny 🙂 Thanks for the laughs on that one.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      No, she really is a tired old hag full of hate.

      Oh there you are, LS. Where is your littlest buddy the victim, CS? Oh where is he?

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why? Does he owe you money?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, now that you have your handle back ... stop using mine to spew your nonsense.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      what? as IT uses another handle "You have kicked poor tom to the curb so many times she is left a bitter, frustrated loser. Home licking her wounds perhaps. The thought of that just turned my stomach. Even an animal would retch licking tom tom."

      No, she has a life because she isn't a tired old hag full of hate stewing at home."

      Answer: Predictable.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
    • Jimtanker

      @Tom Tom

      Heaven Sent didn't miss you. He just though that you became phony. He could care less if you're stranded in Timbuktu.

      And....NOBODY misses you here.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, gosh, woe is me. However WILL I recover? I simply CANNOT go on if Jim doesn't like me. Boo hoo hoo. My red candy heart, it is broken.

      Kinda like Jimmy's English.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I really do get a charge out of all the hatred and vitriol that you seem to have for me, HS, Jim, et al. Apparently, I've hit a nerve with each of you somewhere along the line.

      Pretty funny that you spend this much energy railing at someone you'll never meet and caring that much about what I say.

      Gratifying.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The same can be said for you. You spend even more time looking for ways to insult me. Too bad for you, I don't care.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you posted with your own handle. Will wonders never cease? "I really do get a charge out of all the hatred and vitriol that you seem to have for me, HS, Jim, et al. Apparently, I've hit a nerve with each of you somewhere along the line.

      Pretty funny that you spend this much energy railing at someone you'll never meet and caring that much about what I say.

      Gratifying."

      Answer: Actually Tommie, Tom, you're like bubble gum that got stuck to my shoe. It's neither here nor there ... just want to get rid of IT.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure. You don't care a bit.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, HS, don't fret. It takes very little time or effort to find reason to ridicule you. I can do it with both hands tied behind my back while blindfolded.

      Please, ignore me some more.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Now, honey, when you've mastered the "looser/loser" problem, you need to get started on "it's/its".

      There's a good little fundie.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      No, but it sure does take up all of your time. How old are you? 12? Gloating about ridiculing others is not the sign of an adult. It's the sign of someone who is not happy with life. That is a fact. You need Jesus.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie Tantrum, you said: Now, honey, when you've mastered the "looser/loser" problem, you need to get started on "it's/its".

      There's a good little fundie.

      Answer: Just like knowing the proper use of a comma? FYI, "fundie" is not a real word.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Suit yourself, dear.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, you really should look into those multiple personalities you built up for yourself as you keep writing under my handle "HeavenSent, The same can be said for you. You spend even more time looking for ways to insult me. Too bad for you, I don't care.

      Amen."

      Question: Do you get tired phony heavensent of writing and answering yourself under others' handles? Actually, why write? You can sit in your room and write and talk with yourself if that's what you're in to.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:12 pm |
  20. hippypoet

    not only did they misspell it but they also did it backwards – it should read "the group of morons"... but such mistakes do happen when translating things from the "christian" language to english.

    December 8, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Atheists sure are the funny ones as we watch them ripping the wrappings off their Christmas presents. I notice that don't dawdle while making their way to the holiday dinner tables with family, friends, neighbors. Too funny you hate learning your heritage, the truth of Jesus Christ, our heavenly father who created all and wants us to be the best that we can be by studying, comprehending and applying what He taught us in the letter He wrote to all of us (the Bible). That means you too hippypoet.

      Amen.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      HS is definitely off his/her meds again. Anyone want to wager it's because of the Medicare hole at the end of the year?

      December 8, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      Learning one's cultural history doesn't mean that one has to behave in the same way as those ancestors.
      Do you have a Christmas tree, HS? That would be you paying homage to your pagan ancestors.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • captain america

      Yeah and if you had a maple leaf you might be paying homage to a loud mouth canadian who can't keep his opinions where they belong.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • Ironicus

      I see Glenn Beck has joined us again. Where'd the nurse go, Glenn? Did you hide your meds in your underwear again?

      December 8, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @captain america
      Didn't your spelling patterns just out you as a Canadian?
      Deny it if you like, but adding that british "u" to colour has demonstrated your subconscious desire to join the Great White North. It must be becuase our beer is better.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • hippypoet

      captain, you are beyond racist and should go die in a ditch somewhere... this is your fellow United States citizen saying this to you... not a canadian... but we are all americans 🙂 deal with it loser boy!

      December 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • captain america

      Or was it an agency ploy to out the operatives?

      December 8, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @Doc Vestibule: You said, "It must be becuase our beer is better."

      Oh, we've got some mighty tasty craft brews here. I recommend a Dogfish Head if you've ever get the opportunity.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, you spewed your circular argument again by posting "@HeavenSent, Learning one's cultural history doesn't mean that one has to behave in the same way as those ancestors. Do you have a Christmas tree, HS? That would be you paying homage to your pagan ancestors."

      Answer: I'm still waiting for wh4en you atheists want to have a serious discussion. I'll then take you seriously when you get over your fall back of circular arguments in order to defend your right to be lazy. Until then, you know I've posted many times that Christians celebrate the day Jesus was conceived on the 25th of December (Born September 29th). Pagan rituals were incorporated into the Churches back then so that pagans would come and attend mass to learn about Jesus Christ.

      The Christmas tree is another reminder of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We don't worship the tree, seeing the tree reminds of us of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as you can read in the following scripture ...

      Hosea 14:8 Ephraim [shall say], What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard [him], and observed him: I [am] like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.

      Our history is Jesus Christ. You'd know what He wants from us if you got over your laziness and fear of peer pressure to learn past the basics and comprehend why we are here, what we are to do, how we are to treat each other while living a righteous life.

      When are you atheists going to learn that Jesus Christ and what He teaches us is the better mousetrap! You go against your elders because you are trying to forge a better way. Jesus is the way. When you get through your big ego time of life, you too will learn His truth.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

      Wow, god must be quite the azzhole.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, I don't have a Christmas tree due to rescuing animals who have to reside in my home until I can find them a loving owner(s). With that said, I've had Christmas trees knocked over due to these new furry buddies doing what comes naturally ... climbing trees or playing around or under a tree.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, can't you come up with a creative solution to your pent up anger? Stealing my handle to spew your nonsense has gone on beyond being boring which proves you folks resort to stealing ... (e.g. ideas, change the names calling it your own.

      Prove me wrong. Learn how to be creative and true to yourself ... Answer is in Jesus Christ's truth, the Bible.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent

      "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
      Jeremiah 10:2-4:

      December 8, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • DUH!

      "The Christmas tree is another reminder of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We don't worship the tree, seeing the tree reminds of us of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as you can read in the following scripture ...

      Hosea 14:8 Ephraim [shall say], What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard [him], and observed him: I [am] like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found."

      LMAO! It's amazing how christians will twist anything to justify their imaginary god. The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshiped evergreens. When the winter solstice arrive, they brought green date palm leaves into their homes to symbolize life's triumph over death. Again it only proves yet more was stolen from other religions to create and write the bible – DOES N"T MEAN IT REAL! You're celebrating winter solstice plain and simple.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • Peter

      "LMAO! It's amazing how christians will twist anything to justify their imaginary god. The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshiped evergreens. When the winter solstice arrive, they brought green date palm leaves into their homes to symbolize life's triumph over death. Again it only proves yet more was stolen from other religions to create and write the bible – DOES N"T MEAN IT REAL! You're celebrating winter solstice plain and simple."

      HeavenSent is too lazy to read history and know the real truth, her pompous ego couldn't handle it.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      DUH!, you babbled “LMAO! It's amazing how christians will twist anything to justify their imaginary god. The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshiped evergreens. When the winter solstice arrive, they brought green date palm leaves into their homes to symbolize life's triumph over death. Again it only proves yet more was stolen from other religions to create and write the bible – DOES N"T MEAN IT REAL! You're celebrating winter solstice plain and simple.

      Answer: DUH, the seasonal solstices are explained in the Bible we don’t have to pay attention to the K A S H R U T . C O M© "The Premier Kosher Information Source on the Internet or any other false misrepresentation. Seasonal changes are seasonal changes as per Jesus Christ who created all.

      Isaiah 7:13-14

      13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
      14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

      Fulfilled in Jesus Christ:

      Matthew 1:22-25

      22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
      23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
      24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
      25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

      This same Christ Jesus, speaking with all authority of the Heavenly Father, the Lord God of the Bible, "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18), states: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

      Since you mentioned the Egyptians. Who do you think lived back then? Were their salves and hence, builders? Who were the slaves that Moses lead through the desert? And now you're beginning to learn the rest of HiStory if you have eyes to see and ears to hear His truth.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • Fookin' Prawn

      hippy, you got a double 'Amen' in response to this post. I think there are extra points for that.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

      Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. And I'm an ugly and fat old hag. And I fa-rt too much.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      No response to the scripture condeming Christmas trees?

      December 8, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
    • captain america

      hippypoet
      For your limited brain, to be a racist you need a race, canadians,atheists and qu eers don't qualify as races. Pretend Americans like sean nj bring up an interesting question .Sean when you kiss canadian butt like that how do you get the taste out of your mouth.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, I did answer this question "@HeavenSent, No response to the scripture condeming Christmas trees?"

      Answer: I don't know any true Christian that worships a Christmas tree. I said it is to remind us of God creating all. Christmas trees reminds Christians of when Immanuel was conceived (meaning God with us) came into the world and walked among us. Christmas mass is all about Immanuel. What He did for the world. How at His conception He came to dwell with us. We honor Jesus, not a tree.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • manaen

      "not only did they misspell it but they also did it backwards – it should read 'the group of morons' "

      So, what is a group of "snorom"?

      December 8, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Fookin' Prawn, you joked "hippy, you got a double 'Amen' in response to this post. I think there are extra points for that."

      Answer: It's my carpal tunnel acting up .... double clicking the mouse causing repeats.

      December 8, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, you spewed your nonsense when posting "Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

      Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. And I'm an ugly and fat old hag. And I fa-rt too much."

      Answer: Tommie Tom who isn't writing under it's handle today is a SORE looser and is smarting over no having ammunition when debating any point in life.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The word was suppose to be not, not no.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • DUH

      "Since you mentioned the Egyptians. Who do you think lived back then? Were their salves and hence, builders? Who were the slaves that Moses lead through the desert? And now you're beginning to learn the rest of HiStory if you have eyes to see and ears to hear His truth."

      Wow the stupidity of Christians get worse and worse. The bible is nothing more than a pile of superstitious lies, pulled from other superstitious lies and pagan religions. It doesn’t mean it’s REAL. You needed a crutch in your life because you couldn’t cope with the realities of your life and those you came into contact with because you lack personal self love. Just because you are weak minded doesn’t mean the rest of us are, keep your superstitious lies to yourself.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • HS

      Huh, not our problem you have no eyes to see nor ears to hear His truth.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

      Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. And I'm an ugly and fat saggy old hag. And I fa-rt too much.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The irony of hippypoet complaining about someone else's grammar is mind blowing. This is the guy that doesn't know how to capitalize, spell, or punctuate properly. Rynn is a stupid name, by the way.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE!Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble...Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble...

      December 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Hippypoet, the phony heavensent insulted you with the post "The irony of hippypoet complaining about someone else's grammar is mind blowing. This is the guy that doesn't know how to capitalize, spell, or punctuate properly. Rynn is a stupid name, by the way.

      Amen."

      Answer: It is dividing and conquering due to ITs big ego.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      For the record, rynn really is a stupid name.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, too funny. You finally got it "Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE!Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble...Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..Spew, spew, spew. SPEW. Babble, babble. BABBLE! Spewspewspewbabblebabblebabble..."

      Answer: It is waking up.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Repeat after me, HS: Looser is not the same as loser. Here, this may help: You are a loser whose morals are looser than her bowels.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @SeanNJ, yeah, HS is definitely in need of her daily dose of Xanax.

      By the way, Dogfish Head Brewery is in my neck of the woods.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you posted "Repeat after me, HS: Looser is not the same as loser. Here, this may help: You are a loser whose morals are looser than her bowels."

      Answer: I have to admit, multi tasking has taken it's toll. I was speaking on the phone with my friend who's mom had a stroke and wasn't paying attention to what I posted.

      Spell check versus concern over a friend's mother's health?

      I believe my choice was my friend's mom's health.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you keep tipping your hand as you posted "@SeanNJ, yeah, HS is definitely in need of her daily dose of Xanax.

      By the way, Dogfish Head Brewery is in my neck of the woods."

      Answer: Do you have a problem with drugs since you are always writing about them?

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      That has to be the cap to my evening. If you were concerned about your friend's mom's health, you'd have stopped blathering here and focused on talking to your friend.

      Instead, you needed to indulge your ego while pretending to care about your friend's mother.

      Really, HS. That would be comedy gold, except it's beyond disgusting.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeaventSent
      You said you worship Jesus, not trees.
      This sounds suspi.ciously like the Catholic rationalization for idolatry... they pray through the saints/icons, not to them.
      Given that the scripture names the practice of decorating trees as pagan vanity, it seems a bit incongruous for someone who constantly berates people for ego to embrace something like that...

      December 9, 2011 at 8:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, you posted "@HeaventSent, You said you worship Jesus, not trees.
      This sounds suspi.ciously like the Catholic rationalization for idolatry... they pray through the saints/icons, not to them.
      Given that the scripture names the practice of decorating trees as pagan vanity, it seems a bit incongruous for someone who constantly berates people for ego to embrace something like that..."

      Answer: I am not a Catholic and I am not affiliated with any church. I read the Bible which is the most fascinating book ever penned. I know atheists on this site argue about specific scriptures and continue their rant because they take them out of context without realizing that Jesus teaches subject, article, outcome if you are willing to have eyes to see and ears to hear His truth.

      Back to the subject on Christmas trees. Jesus wrote that the pagans of that time were worshiping the tree (aka making the tree an idol or god). As I stated earlier, I've never met a Christian that worships a tree. I've only met Christians that focus on Jesus' conception into the world on December 25th. You atheists even bring up the argument that many practices in the church are pagan. I gave you my explanation of what I learned why said rituals were incorporated into the church was to bring the pagans to church to learn about Jesus Christ. If I haven't answered all your questions, I'm sure you'll write back.

      Amen.

      December 9, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, your venom must choke at you most of the time as you posted your nonsense "That has to be the cap to my evening. If you were concerned about your friend's mom's health, you'd have stopped blathering here and focused on talking to your friend.

      Instead, you needed to indulge your ego while pretending to care about your friend's mother.

      Really, HS. That would be comedy gold, except it's beyond disgusting."

      Answer: Compassion and understanding is definitely not your forte. I gave you a suggestion in an earlier post. Write to your other handles as you have done this entire year and spew your venom (that you obviously hold dear) back at your self. I'm sure you get a kick out of that since you've done it already.

      Amen.

      December 9, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      With a friend like you, who would need enemies? A "friend" who continues posting on a board when someone she claims to care for needs her is disgusting.

      You are disgusting.

      December 9, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.

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