home
RSS
December 27th, 2011
01:42 PM ET

Reward offered for fugitive pastor

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - A pastor on the lam from Las Vegas now has a price on his head.

Otis Holland, the 55-year-old former pastor of United Faith Church, skipped court appearances and has been missing for a year.  He was accused of sexually assaulting teenage congregants, CNN affiliate KLAS reported.

A $10,000 reward has been offered for information about the former pastor.

Christine Shea, owner of Bad Girl Bail Bonds, told KLAS that Holland skipped court appearances after she posted $30,000 to get him out of jail.

CNN's Belief Blog – all the faith angles to the day's top stories

"I have guilt that I helped get him back out on the streets," she told KLAS.

KLAS reported that Holland was arrested in December 2010 and in January amid allegations that he abused congregants who were as young as 7 years old.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church • Crime

« Previous entry
soundoff (324 Responses)
  1. inkydj4

    How about one of you true believers explain to me why,when there is a natural catastrophe and 1000's die you will say,god does not interfere,and then when one survivor is found,you will claim,it's a miracle.What a joke!!

    December 28, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • Tony

      Where, in the article, is this issue discussed?

      December 28, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Bill

      calm down inky. just cause you're paranoid doesn't mean those evil Christians aren't out to get you. now take your meds like a good boy...

      December 28, 2011 at 11:07 am |
    • Kevin Smith

      I love the church's solution to molestor priests. Take one in LA, one in Boston...and swap 'em.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • Chad

      As God is sovereign, there is certainly nothing wrong with thanking God for sparing a survivor.

      Beyond that (why God answers some prayers and seemingly not others, why some bad people succeed and some "good" people perish) we really don't know. But at the end of the day, the God of Abraham is real and Jesus Christ really is His Son.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • brick

      It was explained to me like this and it actually makes perfect sense. People are a part of God's plan. We must die just like the plants, cows, chicken, etc that we feed on. Would it be not arrogant for a painting to question a painter why it is of a flower and not a building? Well that is what we are to God. He loves us but like a any creation, it is to serve a purpose.

      That's why I dont understand when people say God wouldn't want this when bad things happen. You can't weigh individuals' personal tragedy against the total result. Because God uses bad situations to teach, strengthen, test and unify people. We should thank God because we have life and respect God when he decides to take it away.

      December 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @brick: That's silly. Why should I be accepting that, according to you, I was created for the sole purpose of being subservient?

      I'm glad that works for you. Me, not so much.

      December 28, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • Bob Jones

      @Bill

      The exact same could and is being said about you.
      You believe in something you can't prove and that isn't there, there's a term for that in the medical field.

      It's called being delusional.
      If anyone needs to take their meds, you are that person.

      Inky was posing a valid question, which you sidestepped by simply insulting him.
      Typical "believer".. and you can't have belief without "LIE".

      December 29, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
  2. Pro Death

    Call Dog the bounty hunter.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:55 am |
  3. sonotso

    But the Lord did give them unto him for his mighty works. In a vision, they were promised unto him; blessed be. Is there one day that goes by without some religious loon destroying the world in one way or another. God help us all.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:39 am |
  4. Tom

    I hate to tell you this, but much of Christianity is merely hokus pokus.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:27 am |
    • Nate

      I agree, but so is all religion....

      December 28, 2011 at 10:35 am |
    • JD

      If you hate to tell us then don't. Not going to believe you anyway.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      How did you know that in among my birthday presents was a magician's kit? Wait a second – hold this paper cone while I pour some milk into it........

      December 28, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • FreThinker

      Sorry, I disagree. ALL of Christianity is hocus pocus!

      December 28, 2011 at 10:39 am |
  5. MoJo

    Hallowed are the Ori........

    December 28, 2011 at 10:23 am |
    • Nate

      I just wanted to voice my approval of your Stargate reference hahaha WIN

      December 28, 2011 at 10:35 am |
    • LetsTalkNews

      I miss SG-1!!!!

      December 28, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • MoJo

      watch them online at JTV

      December 28, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • Bob Jones

      You know... the Ori and Christians are eerily similar.
      They both believe in and idiotic book of fairytales, they both get violent when you disagree with them, and they both have no qualms about killing people, because they justify it to themselves that they are doing the "moral" thing.

      When Stargate started bringing in the Ori storyline, my first thought was "Hey look, Christians!"

      December 29, 2011 at 10:49 pm |
  6. Rico

    God is a creation of man to control the weak minded masses through fear and intimidation. It is true that, at least I believe, without religon we wouldn't have the societies we have today. Now that society has been built and gorund rules established it is time to put aside the the ancient hocus pocus of a few thousand years ago and come to the realization that god is as real as Harry Potter.

    Those who pontificate religon are no more than common criminals, con men, grifters, taking your money and living large with your daughters. Here in the US we have the right to free speech and religion but do we really have the right to remain ignorant? It is those that hold the right to remain ignorant so dear that are holding us back, holding our economy down, and preventing us from taking the next great step forward in evolution, whatever that may be.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:23 am |
    • paco128

      little do you know

      December 28, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      No wonder I didn't get a birthday card from you.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • glyder

      if only we were all communists.then our leaders could murder millions,or at least starve them.now that's the progress of a progressive.and i bet this clown is hiding in hollywood.no one would notice.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • J.W

      You seem to be exercising your right to remain ignorant.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:49 am |
    • fred

      Sounds like someone did you bad Rico. Don't blame religion blame man. It is men who want to take away your freedom and it seems Jesus stands firm in their way of total conquest of your wallet and your soul. These evil power hungry men such as the atheist Stalin had to rid the people of their opiate Jesus in order to turn the power of worship towards the State control.
      Understand this is you cannot understand the freedom offered by Jesus; It is only the love in a believers heart these power mongers can never take away or control and that is why they want it. They want what they cannot have just as the first creation through Adam wanted what they could not have. Nothing ever changes. Call the Bible junk but the truth always rises to the top and continues to validate the DIvinity of the Word

      December 28, 2011 at 11:00 am |
    • tallulah13

      Hey glyder

      Sort of like when the "good" christians of England starved the Irish during the potato famine and the catholic church didn't lift a finger to help? Or was it more like when "good" christians rounded up entire tribes of Native Americans, imprisoned them on the worst plot of land they could find and let them starve (if they didn't die of disease first)?

      December 28, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • tallulah13

      I meant to say that the British christians didn't help. They didn't orchestrate the famine, but they did very little to help while millions starved or had to leave their homes.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • fred

      Tallulah13
      Hey now, Jesus is but 3 days old today cutt him a little slack. We cannot fault the truth as expressed by Jesus simply because man does exactly what man has always done. Man will use religion or whatever necessary to carry out the evil desires in the heart. Man will use Catholics as the Pope does, Christians as Hitler did etc for personal evil desires. The truth stands firm and it is man that is exposed not Jesus with such tretchery.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:07 am |
    • Mike from CT

      @Rico

      "God is a creation of man to control the weak minded masses through fear and intimidation."

      Then explain all the scientist that were Christian

      or the first abolitionist

      or the first founding fathers

      "Now that society has been built and gorund rules established it is time to put aside the the ancient hocus pocus of a few thousand years ago and come to the realization that god is as real as Harry Potter."
      How is that working out? I mean you do have some real life examples like France during the revelation, Communist Russia, China and Cambodia

      December 28, 2011 at 11:09 am |
    • tallulah13

      Fred, I was answering a specific comment. I agree that Jesus had nothing to do with those atrocities, much as atheism had nothing to do with the atrocities committed in the name of communism.

      My point is this: Humans do terrible things to other humans. Religion is not an effective deterrent.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:21 am |
    • Bill

      Fred is not capable of getting a point. Nor of making one. He's actually quite stupid.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • fred

      tallulah13
      You're right about that ! Christians were to model themselves after his example and die to desires of self where all that hate resonates. We did not go a very good job at following and actually often made things worse.
      My biggest concern is that in doing so we opened the door for religion to be thrown out all together, the good with the bad.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • Elaine

      Oh fred, if only we could throw out religion. That would be a great achievement for humanity.

      Keep that door open and push outward when you can.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • fred

      Wild Bill
      How is your way any better? I notice history is being rewritten to water down the Words of Jesus. I notice under the new cross of tolerance and political correctness we are rewriting even books like Huck Finn. In 30 years the books of old will be gone and new books (rewritten) as necessary to fit the agenda will populate our Kindles or IPods. History that can be rewritten en mass on the spot to control the thought of the people. Enjoy your new world without truth.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • fred

      Elaine
      Yeh, seems like religion gets it wrong and builds upon its wrongs. This is why Jesus was is so much trouble with established religion of his day, he never held back on their abuse of truth and abuse of their own followers. The best example of man mixed with religion and secular Roman government was the injustice carried out against Christ. The horrific sceen of mocking, beatings, nails and Christ hanging there looking at His tormentors. Anger no just "father forgive them for they know not what they do". I suspect we all think we are lot smarter today and we know what we do to Christ daily .......or do we?

      December 28, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • Tom

      True the JEFFERSON BIBLE. As cut up and edited by our founding father Thomas Jefferson he cut out all the bs and kept the moral teachings of Jesus. No virgin birth, no walk on water, no raise from the dead, no fishes and loaves, look into the JEFFERSON BIBLE. That is the kind of reason we need today from our leaders.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Marc

      History was already re-written by your lot, fred. They called their historical fiction "the bible" and they sure got a lot wrong in it. -including the existence of the claimed deity and its divine acts, which is all a total fabrication.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • Marc

      And fred, if you disagree, present your evidence for your god.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Elaine

      Wild stories indeed, fred. Get back to the basics: why would a "god" need to put his supposed offspring through any of that, to accomplish the supposed objective?

      Some examination of that might help you with that push to get religion out of your brain room. Come on, you can do it. Maybe.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • Sid

      Mike from CT,

      Re "Then explain all the scientist that were Christian...or the first founding fathers",
      seriously, stop trying to shove that garbage at us. You must know the solid rebuttals to that by now. Back in the day, scientists were TORTURED if they didn't toe the Christian church line. It was only a brave few that were able to push back, but those who did have helped set us free from your sick Christian beliefs. And the founders were predominantly non-Christian and understood the need to separate religion and state.

      Know where this is from? "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

      December 28, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • fred

      Elaine
      Marc
      I found Christians and Christ to be a crock until a few years back when I had what is called a conversion experience. Turned out some people were praying for me. I did not know that so God either stepped in on His own or answered prayer when a Bible happened into my hands through a bizarre sequence of events. It was cracked open to some red letters that caught my eye and I read I was convicted. The Bible opened up to me in ways I could not even explain.
      Without that I would be ignoring God and Christians as I always did. I do not expect anyone to believe based on what I have to say simply because it would not have affected me either. I do not expect facts or proof I have seen would have any impact. God does not do a dance for us at our demand and cannot be found except in the ways he elects to reveal himself.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:36 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Sid,
      Isaac Newton tortured?
      Kelvin tortured?
      Einstein (although not Christian which now goes against your premise of a “reason” but not atheist) tortured?
      So to quote Sid, “stop trying to shove that garbage at us.”

      “And the founders were predominantly non-Christian and understood the need to separate religion and state.”
      So much so they didn’t even put it in the founding doc.ument
      So much so that there were services, prayers and other meetings in the capital?
      “Know where this is from? “
      Yes a letter from Thomas Jefferson, who later that week had a chaplin appear at one of his events, forget the exact details
      Now if Obama, writes a letter, stating how he wish everyone would leave him alone, would you act on it?

      December 28, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Marc
      "History was already re-written by your lot, fred. They called their historical fiction "the bible" and they sure got a lot wrong in it. -including the existence of the claimed deity and its divine acts, which is all a total fabrication."

      Please provide evidence for your statements, because there is over a thousand years of history spread across many social classes spread over a vast region of the world that speaks against your statement.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:56 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Elaine, the only problem is that has been proved false already in the areas of Communist Russia, Cambodia, and China.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • wootdude

      JC, you're killing me!

      December 28, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
  7. johna

    JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD of satan and all the anti-christ. If you accept CHRIST JESUS today, you will be saved from the doom waiting for you after life. However, if you continue to dance to the tune of the deceit of your father-the devil,you will become prominent crying mantis in your father's kingdom when you realise it is too late to accept JESUS CHRIST.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:22 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      What was that? Sorry, but I wasn't paying attention. I'm still opening birthday presents....Jeeez, another necktie.....

      December 28, 2011 at 10:29 am |
    • JD

      Oh get real! Fanatics like you are the ones to give Christianity a bad name and turns many people away from it.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • AhhPures

      You sir, are the victim of brainwashing, most likely by your family since early childhood, and the possibility of your vision being cleared is next to none, no chance. I for one am most saddened by the condition of those who have suffered at the hands of this form of conditioning, which is protected by law.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:51 am |
    • tallulah13

      Unless of course, you run into Anubis after you die. Or Hades. There is just as much evidence to support this possibility as there is for your own; that is to say, none at all.

      I'm sorry you live your life in fear of what will happen to you after you die. That is just cruel blackmail from greedy opportunists. Live your life well and don't fear. All evidence leads to the conclusion that when you die, you are dead.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • Bob Jones

      I generally make it a point not to listen to the insane ramblings of lunatics.

      Get help. Seriously.

      December 29, 2011 at 11:13 pm |
  8. Adalai

    @Bill the Cat

    History tells us that the Gospel writers never met Jesus. The original stories of Jesus were orally told up until 90 years after his death (please google Marcion for first canonization of the New Testament). It would be another 300 plus years before the church complied the canonized books that you are reading today. Religious scholars place the crucifixion of Jesus around 30 CE (Christian Era). The book of Mark was written 60-65 CE. The books of Matthew and Luke were written in 80-85 CE and the book of John was written in 90-95 CE. Each have their own story that they referenced from other sources and this is why the New Testament conflicts with each other. I will give you an example: Luke 2:16 states Jesus was born in a manger, but Matthew 2:11 it states that Jesus was born in a house.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      Yup, I was pretty much dead by then. Let's see what other birthday presents I got. Oh for crying out lad – a crucifix! Who the heck would give me a crucifix?

      December 28, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • Patrick

      heh heh.....You said ORALLY....

      December 28, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • Hof

      They don't say that at all. Luke says the baby was lying in a manger; Matthew says they came into the house and saw Him with His mother. The passage in Luke refers to the shepherds. The Matthew passage refers to the wise men. Shepherds were not considered wise men, so there's no contradiction.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • tallulah13

      LOL, JC.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:09 am |
    • Radarrider99

      Adalai,

      You need to check your math. You state that the Gospels were oral tradtion up till 90 years after Jesus' death, but then turn around and state they were written down 30 to 60 years after his death. Also, you might want to take a Koine Greek lesson before trying to interpret these Gospels. Have a pleasant day

      December 28, 2011 at 11:11 am |
  9. GODZILLA1

    Here I thought, and hoped, it was a manhunt for that piece of trash Walker Railey who tried to murder his wife here in Dallas in 1987. She died in a nursing home today but he is still on the loose.

    December 28, 2011 at 10:13 am |
    • bmoore

      He was tried and acquitted you tard..

      December 28, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • tallulah13

      Never heard of the case, but it took me about 2 minutes to discover that some of the jury thought he was guilty, but not beyond a reasonable doubt. He remarried before he was even divorced, then claimed to be too poor to pay the $337 a month alimony owed to his first wife (in a vegetative state in a nursing home) while moving to a $3000 a month apartment in L.A.

      Sounds like a good christian.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:17 am |
  10. forsingle

    Bigtalls.c0m..a nice club for tàll people to date. You need not to be beautiful or handsome,if you are over 5'8", as long as you are tàll, you are very popular here.

    December 28, 2011 at 9:43 am |
    • fredflintstone

      Sad when you have to resort to placing an ADD on a CNN form, because your lackluster dating site cannot produce the funds needed to respectfully advertise.....Trashy

      December 28, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • Howard

      5 foot 9 inches is TALL???

      December 28, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Really???

      What should it tell us about your dating site if you're spamming a story about a "pastor" (air-quotes allegedly) raping children?

      December 28, 2011 at 10:17 am |
    • Tee

      If enough people report these ads they disappear.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:18 am |
  11. Church of Suicidal

    "Here comes another con hiding behind a collar..."

    December 28, 2011 at 9:33 am |
    • Jerome Horowitz

      I hear people are dying to get into your church.......

      December 28, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • Church of Suicidal

      "Congregation, please be seated and open your prayer guides to the book of Revelations, Psalm 69..."

      December 28, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
  12. lance corporal

    a christian leader accused of se xual assault....ho hum. no new news here, common as could be
    muslims beat women christians abuse the little ones
    and it's the atheists who lack morals?? because????

    December 28, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • Walker

      Atheists lack morals?!?! Now THERE is an interesting statement. My Atheist friends and I are pillars of our respective communities. Can you possibly say the same?

      December 28, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • AKO326

      I think he was saying the same thing.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:37 am |
  13. believer

    For those of you that don't believe in Jesus: Jesus loves you, my prayer is that you get an opportunity to repent when you face the end of your life. It will be up to you.

    December 28, 2011 at 12:53 am |
    • believers will believe anything

      Why do you believe that? Because your parents told it to you as a kid? Throughout history and everywhere in the world, kids parroted the religious beliefs that were indoctrinated into them, without ever using any critical thought to consider whether or not it was true. They accepted without evidence, just as you have, and believed firmly in Thor, Zeus, Ra, Pele, Quetzlcoatl, and about 4,200 others. Just as you have.

      So tell yourself the truth: you never once have seen even the slightest evidence that your god of choice exists, nor that the world actually operates the way your religious text says (it doesn't, in case you haven't noticed). Tell yourself the truth and admit that you have done nothing but conform to the prevailing opinions around you, without thought.

      Admit to yourself that, had you been born in Tenochtitlan 500 years ago, you be just as adamantly sure that Huitzilopochtli and Quetzlcoatl were real.

      December 28, 2011 at 1:12 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      It really is amazing how believers never cease to use the threat of eternal punishment when speaking of stuff they have no proof for.

      December 28, 2011 at 5:24 am |
    • Mike from CT

      believers will believe anything

      I half agree with you

      " kids parroted the religious beliefs that were indoctrinated into them,"

      So were your parents athiest as you were. If no, then you are proof of violating your own beliefs that people automatically follow their parents beliefs about God, so you know your statement not to be true

      If yes, then you are your own worse offender for not using critical thinking and not researching the history of the Gospel letters for yourself.

      The proof of God is that Creationion requires a creator and something does not come from nothing.

      Now prove to us that this is not a dream we are having... you either don't understand "proof" or are just trowing up smoke screens asking a question which you know is invalid.

      "nor that the world actually operates the way your religious text says "
      Actually it does, but lets go outside the bible for a moment and to your local bookstore. What is the biggest section of books today? Self help. So regardles of your views on God, the world agrees that the everyone in the world and the world itself is broken and fractured in some kind of way. Now the question is why? Well that anser is in the Bible.

      December 28, 2011 at 8:46 am |
    • Bohemer

      Very often people post comments like "Why waster resources on this POS, put a bullet to his head, case closed".

      December 28, 2011 at 9:31 am |
    • Jim May

      Wow if only the 'authorities' were so diligent in going after wayward priests!

      December 28, 2011 at 9:36 am |
    • James Pfeiffer

      It is all very simple. Human beings are, as far as we know, unique in that we can actually contemplate are own deaths. This unique characteristic effects each and every one of us differently. Those who are unable, or unwilling to intellectually understand that all of us, in fact, will die have created complex belief systems mostly designed to assuage the "elephant in the room"...that being that we are all finite in the anthropological sense. So then we create heaven, hell, sin, prejudice, hatred, fear, etc, to calm the fact of our impending deaths. It's the adult version of Santa Claus.

      December 28, 2011 at 9:39 am |
    • LifeinVA

      Interesting how hard athiests work to convince christians they are wrong, and how hard christians try to convert athiests. How about we all just allow each other to have our own belief/non-belief systems, whether you think it right or wrong. I'm willing to bet most of you have never changed anyone's mind with your 'proof'.

      December 28, 2011 at 9:48 am |
    • bonez2

      Actually, to the poster below, according to the current trend in Quantum Mechanics, something can indeed come from nothing. I am not going to insult your lack of understanding, it is a very complicated theory and currently needs a bit more work to say for certain. Now I am not an atheist per say, but the universe did in fact, NOT need a creator to create it from nothing.

      December 28, 2011 at 9:53 am |
    • Jennifer M

      (The proof of God is that Creationion requires a creator and something does not come from nothing.)

      OK, so where did God come from?

      December 28, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      You know what was really amazing? The number of candles on my birthday cake – I thought ol' Lucifer was coming in when I saw all that flame!

      December 28, 2011 at 10:42 am |
    • paco128

      me like... for the guy under this post,it's your choice but i have proof that god exists and jesus. get back to your hole

      December 28, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • Sybaris

      Mike from CT......... the ad hom king of the belief blog

      December 28, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • Mike from CT

      @James Pfeiffer

      You did realize you put the things you don't believe in (heaven, hell, and maybe sin)
      on the same plain on those that exist prejudice, hatred and fear but say that we created all six.

      @bonez2
      Hopefully you see that you are mixing certaincies in one post
      you go from
      " something can indeed"
      to
      "complicated theory and currently needs a bit more work to say for certain"

      so either be certain that it can indeed or that it has not been able to happen yet.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:02 am |
    • LinCA

      @Mike from CT

      You said, "So were your parents athiest as you were. If no, then you are proof of violating your own beliefs that people automatically follow their parents beliefs about God, so you know your statement not to be true"
      If there was a universal truth, everyone would believe the same. The fact that religions are correlated to a very high degree to geographical areas, and even more to family ties, suggests that there is something else at work. You get your religion from your parents and your educators.

      There are very few children that are not indoctrinated into their parents' religion. Not until they develop the skills and knowledge to critically evaluate the beliefs at the core of that religion, will they be able to shed the nonsense. Not everyone will develop the skills required, or the willingness to question religion.

      You said, "If yes, then you are your own worse offender for not using critical thinking and not researching the history of the Gospel letters for yourself."
      Ask and you will find that quite a few, probably even most, of the atheists posting on this board grew up in christian homes. They were believers. Until the realization hit that it was all make belief. Most were christian but arrived at atheism because they studied the bible, not in spite of it. Studying religious texts is one of the surest ways to atheism. All else you need is an open mind.

      You said, "The proof of God is that Creationion requires a creator and something does not come from nothing."
      Your refusal to contemplate, or failure to comprehend, alternate possibilities does nothing to invalidate those possibilities. It speaks volumes about you, and says nothing about the universe.

      Even so, even if the scientific theories about the origins of the universe, and life are incorrect or incomplete, they are vastly more sound than merely saying that your imaginary friend did it. Other than your ignorance, or refusal to accept anything contradictory to your preconceived notion about the origins, there isn't a single, solitary shred of evidence supporting your position.

      You said, "Now prove to us that this is not a dream we are having... you either don't understand "proof" or are just trowing up smoke screens asking a question which you know is invalid."
      "Proof" is for mathematics and liquor. You appear hazy on the subject, too.

      You said, "Actually it does, but lets go outside the bible for a moment and to your local bookstore. What is the biggest section of books today? Self help. So regardles of your views on God, the world agrees that the everyone in the world and the world itself is broken and fractured in some kind of way. Now the question is why? Well that anser is in the Bible."
      Considering that more than 80% of the people still cling to ancient myths, I would agree that they could use some help. Other than that, the size of the self help section of the bookstore indicates very little more than that there is a market for those books. Not everything that can be improved upon is broken (and not everything that is broken can be fixed or improved).

      There are no answers in the bible that are unique to it, or even original. There are only ancient myths and antique morals. Anything good you can learn from it can be learned through other means. No superstition required.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:45 am |
    • MM

      "So were your parents athiest as you were. If no, then you are proof of violating your own beliefs that people automatically follow their parents beliefs about God, so you know your statement not to be true"

      You are ignoring the parts about *kids* parroting what their parents say, not adults, right? So you haven't AHA!ed anyone. You've just shown that your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • Mike from CT

      LinCa,

      "If there was a universal truth, everyone would believe the same. "

      Again I think it is more accurate to say everyone would inherently know what is right and wrong. Whether they do it is one thing. But I know of no person who justifies all murder, stealing and cowardness to name a few. So where did this sense of right and wrong come from?

      "he fact that religions are correlated to a very high degree to geographical areas, and even more to family ties, suggests that there is something else at work."
      False, Christianity has spread to every corner of the Globe, so please explain?

      "You get your religion from your parents and your educators."
      Again if that is true, then there should not be a growth in atheism. Your parents, parents, parents were not atheist?

      "Not everyone will develop the skills required, or the willingness to question religion."
      Not true, except for the mentally challenge all will have the capacity to defend and required to defend what they believe

      "Until the realization hit that it was all make belief."
      Exactly the point it was based on a "realization" otherwise known as presuppositions that God cannot work outside the natural order. It is not based on historical research, study and analysis.

      "Studying religious texts is one of the surest ways to atheism"
      That is a great statement of faith since all evidence contradicts your statement.

      "Your refusal to contemplate, or failure to comprehend, alternate possibilities does nothing to invalidate those possibilities."
      Famous poker example, if I get 20 four of a kinds in a row, will you come to the conclusion that I am cheating or will you contemplate the other possibilities?

      " vastly more sound than merely saying that your imaginary friend did it"
      No one said an imaginary friend did it, unless you want to spend the time and tell us what proof you have to back up the imaginary friend part of your statement

      "Considering that more than 80% of the people still cling to ancient myths, I would agree that they could use some help"
      Ok let's consider the ones that do not hang on to religion... Napoleon, Stalin, Hitler... and no because his parents where Catholic there is nothing to suggest that he was.

      There are no answers in the bible that are unique to it, or even original
      Really, the building of the Temple mount, the burial tomb of Jesus, the resurrection of Jesus, the Acts of the early church, the entire Jewish heritage, the parties Salomon threw?
      And before you go down the horus/Jesus trail please do a simple goodle and look at kingdavid8 website so I don’t have to redescribe it to you, please.

      Please respond, use examples not conjecture.

      MM, you understand that kids parrot everything they see including writing skills, so then all the OP was really saying was kids parrot which everyone else knew already.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • SMH 2012

      @Mike from CT
      "The fact that religions are correlated to a very high degree to geographical areas, and even more to family ties, suggests that there is something else at work."
      False, Christianity has spread to every corner of the Globe, so please explain?

      There have been published studies that show a strong correlation between one’s religion and that of their parents. If you were born to muslim parents in the middle east you would mostly likely believe in Islam. Just as if you were born a irish catholic you are more likely to be catholic than any other religion.

      The correlation is not 100% because individuals have the ability to form their own opinions. Adopting a belief system that differs from that of your family is more rare and takes a level of independent thought that exceeds a majority of people.

      December 28, 2011 at 1:51 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      "There have been published studies that show a strong correlation between one’s religion and that of their parents."

      Yes this is very troublesome, especially in the bible belt of our country as the people never make a proclamation of faith and think this is enough to be a follower of Jesus Christ. Yes it does happen, however.

      You did not address the question of the spread of Christianity. And I will add that spread of Christianity in the first 3 centuries (all before Constantine for those following along) when there were none.

      And there have been studies to show eggs are good, coffee good, eggs bad, coffee bad.

      December 28, 2011 at 2:10 pm |
    • SMH 2012

      @Mike from CT

      True, like how butter used to be bad so they made margarine which ended up being worse. My response was directed at your reply to LinCA:

      ["The fact that religions are correlated to a very high degree to geographical areas, and even more to family ties, suggests that there is something else at work."
      False, Christianity has spread to every corner of the Globe, so please explain]

      I believe that LinCa's point was that our religion is a result of personal experience and not an intrinsic part of who we are. It is largely determined by where we grew up and who raised us. Certainly these are not the only factors, and some are more likely to quesiton the belief systems that they are born into than others. Yes christianity has spread, no one is arguing that. The theory of the evolution and spread of meme's is a fascinating one.

      December 28, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • SMH 2012

      As a meme, Christianity has spread due to the fact that the ideals that it embodies appeal to a large majority of people as well as through the use of tactics such as playing upon the fears and insecurities of the masses. The different approaches that have been used to spread Chrisitianity have varied throughout history.
      I would argue that in the beginning it spread because of the promise for salvation appealed to the downtrodden and gave them the strength to survive through troubled times. Soon after it was spread by violence and the belief that others with different beliefs did not have the same rights to property as the "righteous".
      During the middle ages and to some extent to this day in certain denominations / groups the fire and brimstone fear of hell coupled with the belief in the evils of birth control have gone a long way toward spreading the religion. These days these approaches are becoming less effective due to the fact that people are more educated and free thinking.
      However there's an old Jesuit saying along the lines of "Give me the child and i will give you the man" meaning that indoctrination at a young age was almost a certain way to continue the religious beliefs.

      December 28, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • MM

      "MM, you understand that kids parrot everything they see including writing skills, so then all the OP was really saying was kids parrot which everyone else knew already."

      I'm sorry - was this supposed to be in English?

      December 28, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • Bob Jones

      Save it.

      We don't want your prayer or your thoughts, or are you going to force that on us too?

      December 29, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
  14. hamsta

    u wonT find god in church.its to full of greed and evil.thats precisely why jesus destroyed a church.it is said that satan is the slickest liar and thats who leads the church.

    December 27, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
    • hamsta

      gosh.punctuation and capitalization.are hard.and thinking.too hard for me

      December 27, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
    • Joxer the Mighty

      There was no such thing as the church when Jesus was on earth.

      December 28, 2011 at 9:39 am |
    • writingmomma

      You see, people get really confused about the "building" that they call the "church". The building that God dwells in isn't made with human hands. We are the church! The person that follows the will of God and not lean to his/her own understanding. Anyone can build a building from bricks and call it a "church". Satan himself can construct a "temple", "church", "place of worship", for people to congregate and tear one another from the head to the heart. There are many places that "pose" as a meeting place for "believers in Christ", but are there as imposters. The minute you enter, if you are a "true follower of Christ", you should be able to receive discernment that something isn't right. But, Satan is a very cunning deceiver. He represents himself as an "angel of light." Oh yes, he has deceived many. When you walk in the door, you are greeted with fake love and reassurance. But, to "true followers of Christ", the feeling of uneasiness begin to set in. The veils of deceit begin to reveal themselves. You hear the cold ways that the parishoners are treated when asking for help with rent, utility bills, medicine or the like. You begin to hear the gossip of someone elses marriage or the cheating "pastor" or "deacon" with a married woman.
      You see, this type of action does not go on in a "true" heart and life of a Christian. Do not blame God, or those that "pose" as "ministers, pastors, deacons, saints, bishops or the like" as real followers of Christ. These are just deceivers, being used by Satan to do his bidding. They hide behind the cross and resurrect buildings to fool many. This is why the bible teaches us, "Be not ignorant of Satans devices." He will try to trick you with the "Lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes." People are daily seeking a place to worship and fellowship with other "true" believers. They first must look within themselves and then ask God to give them the discernment that is needed to weed out imposters. Just because someone smiles really well and bring glad tidings, doesn't mean they are "true Christians." This article and many just like it have been posted. But, DO NOT BE FOOLED! Do not miss your blessings, denouncing that God is real, because Satan has made the church look bad with his tools of evil. Many lives have been ruined because of this evil in our world. But, just ponder this, Satan was thrown "to the earth" when he was removed from heaven. Hmmmm!

      December 28, 2011 at 9:52 am |
    • Ogre

      momma,

      I'm betting that you think that you are a "true Christian" though, huh?

      Isn't "Satan" the Master Deceiver? If he can make the church look bad, he can also make it look real good... good enough to fool lots of folks. It could have been "Satan" who appeared to Abraham (and Paul and the rest of 'em) and started this whole religious strife and the "my god is better than your god" fiasco snowballing over the centuries. He could have tossed in a bit of "love", "kindness" and "life everlasting" jargon just to set the hook, then sit back and watch the fireworks. Ol' "Satan" could be just cackling at his success.

      Hint: He could very well pose as the "Holy Spirit" too.

      December 28, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Ogre,
      The only problem with the as.sumption is the historical records.

      Peter an apostle who lived along side Jesus (whom no deceit found in his mouth 1 Peter 2:22) calls Pauls writting as scripture (2 Peter 3:16) and all scripture is God breathe (2 Tim 3:10-16) then you have the warning from Paul himself in scripture (Galatians 1:6-9)

      Now to save a post I am going to anticipate your reply (or someone else's though)

      "Mike all the scripture you post is a lie from Satan"
      Fine, but if you truely believe that, then the question is where did you get this idea of Satan from and that he is a deceiver, and the Holy Spirit.

      December 28, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
  15. hamsta

    @ bo thank u for giving me the bible passage that states what i have said since i returned from the afterlife.thats right i fell 30 ft and died and came back to life.all the atheists and scientists like to claim thats not possible.seems strange i saw an episode of 1000 ways to die that describes the same injuries to someone who fell 20 ft from a tree spieing on his girlfriend and scientifically explaining that there is no way to survive such severe trauma.but just to let u know to make it to heaven its not enuff to pay a preacher to forgive u and save ur soul.did that preacher meet god?i have and not only is jesus real but so is the grim reaper.the only path to the kingdom of god is to truly accept jesus in ur heart and live as he tells u.im so tired of the church telling me about a place called hell and that the holy trinity is one in the same.both are lies.the fields of the nepholeme is where u will spend eternity if god does not accept u and god comands me stone a sinner but jesus says put the stone down.

    December 27, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
    • hamsta is a moron

      Nicholas Alkemade survived a fall of 18,000 feet (with only a sprained ankle), Alan Magee survived a 22,000-foot freefall, and Ivan Chisov survived a fall of nearly 22,000 feet. Your 30 feet is hardly a miracle, and the complete list of "scientists and atheists" claiming it is impossible is as follows:

      December 27, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      @hamsta: once again with the delusions and uneducated spewing!! NDE is what you had and they have never been proven to be anything other than the brain going through typical trauma that occurs in situations like yours...no extreme evidence from an NDE ever that says there is an afterlife and if you are so sure contact the James Randi foundation and make the claim...I'm sure they'd be happy to laugh at you as much as we are.

      December 28, 2011 at 5:35 am |
    • Church of Suicidal

      Bad Girl Bail Bonds? Only in Vegas...

      December 28, 2011 at 9:42 am |
    • What IF

      I'm not sure how to say this without sounding mean and mocking, but you know, it seems as if @hamsta(et al) suffered a bit of brain damage... either in the fall or because of lack of oxygen to the brain during the resuscitation efforts.

      December 28, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • SMH 2012

      I dont think anywhere in the Bible it says "Thou shalt not use punctuation". Please use periods.

      December 28, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
  16. Gabriel

    She is only sorry that she is out 20 grand.

    December 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm |
  17. KMULTRA BRAINCHIPMAN

    MILLIONS TO BE ASSASSINATED FOR THE SAKE OF $$$ LIABILITIES(mk-ultra, chip implants, electroshocks etc. performed on them) AND NEW WORLD ORDER(multiculturalism = terrorism) POLITICAL AGENDA KNOWN AS "YOU ARE NEXT...YOU ARE NEXT"(liabilities are 2 expensive for the government and it is cheaper to get read of you instead !!! NOW YOU KNOW WHAT US CONGRESS IS SOOO BUSY WITH WHEN PLAYING IN FRONT OF CAMERAS WHERE CLAIMING ONLY HOW SOMETHING HAVE TO BE DONE WHILE KNOWINGLY OMITTING AND IGNORING FACTS OF GENOCIDE AS SEEN ON THIS WORLDWIDE WELL KNOWN COMPLAIN )!!!

    http://myshortbiography.blogspot.com/

    LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UNITED NATIONS, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL AS WELL AS NEW WORLD ORDER(MULTICULTURALISM = TERRORISM) GOVERNMENTS !!! NOT THERE TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS, BUT TO DENY YOUR RIGHT TO EXISTENCE !!!

    ABDUCTIONS / BRAIN CHIP IMPLANTS / BLACKLISTING / FORCEFUL UNEMPLOYMENT / MK-ULTRA BRAINWASHING AGAINST WHITE(under "NAZI" lie) CIVILIAN POPULATION TODAY IN 2011/2012 ACROSS THE EUROPE AND NORTHERN AMERICA !!!

    http://myshortbiography.blogspot.com/

    WHY TO ACCEPT LIABILITIES FOR CRIMES COMMITTED WHEN WE CAN SIMPLY ASSASSINATE OUR VICTIMS(YOU) THANKS TO HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS AND FREE PRESS/MEDIA(most severe censorship of genocide ever !!!)!!

    This news is related to WHITES AREN’T WELCOME IN AMERICA ANY LONGER !!! OUT OF AMERICA WITH WHITES NOW !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xGfYOAydjw

    December 27, 2011 at 4:23 pm |
    • KMULTRA BRAINCHIPMAN

      THE FUGITIVE PASTOR WAS IMPLANTED IN MY HEAD, AND IT'S MAKING MY BRANE HURT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      ITZ A CONSPIRACY BY SOMEONE, UH, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!, UH, YEAH, CONSPIRACY . . . I THINK THAT IS WHAT I WAS SCREAMING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      DID I SAY THAT OUT LOUD, OR ONLY THINK IT?!?!?!?! CAN YOU HEAR MY BRANE WAVES?!?!?!?!

      ARE THE THOUGHT IN MY HEAD TOO LOUD??????? ARE THEY DISTURBING YOUR TAP DANCING????

      December 27, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • fredflintstone

      please dont procreate

      December 28, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • Church of Suicidal

      Your tinfoil hat has fallen off again. I know because I'm in the black van parked across the street.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:25 am |
    • Church of Suicidal

      @ Bill – So the God you worship consigns nice and moral people to eternal damnation for the sin of not accepting him? Your gospel says man was created in God's image – seems to me we've created him in ours. Vain and petty – that's what I look for in a deity.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:30 am |
  18. sam

    He's at HeavenSent's house

    December 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
  19. David Johnson

    Is this what they mean, when they talk about being touched by the hand of god?

    Curious in Arizona

    December 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • Bo

      No, David, this is what is meant by what Jesus said in: Matthew 7:21–23
      “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.”
      in other words, not everyone who claimes to be a Christian is one.

      December 27, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
    • sam

      @Bo nope nope nope! All he had to do is accept Jesus and ask forgiveness, and he gets to go to heaven. He's a shoo-in no matter what. But any nice moral person who doesn't accept Jesus goes to hell. Aren't those the rules?

      December 27, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • claybigsby

      Bo, how do you know Jesus said those things considering the people who wrote about him never knew, saw or talked to him?

      December 27, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
    • Bo

      @Sam, I suppose you are right, but unless it is true contrition it won't happen.

      December 27, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • Church of Suicidal

      @ sam – They cannot imagine a nice, moral person who does not accept Jesus.

      December 28, 2011 at 9:37 am |
    • Bill the Cat

      @clay...

      Who told you that the Gospel writers never saw Him? Or are you an anti-religious bigot?

      December 28, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • Bill the Cat

      @suicidal

      Being "nice" and "moral" has nothing to do with being saved. But don't let the facts get in your way...

      December 28, 2011 at 9:43 am |
    • Church of Suicidal

      @ Bill – So the God you worship consigns nice and moral people to eternal damnation for the sin of not accepting him? Your gospel says man was created in God's image – seems to me we've created him in ours. Vain and petty – that's what I look for in a deity.

      December 28, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • SMH 2012

      @Bill the cat

      If your faith is dependent on believing that the writers of the Gospel actually witnessed the miracles then I question your reasoning abilities. Many of the stories in the bible were verbally passed along until they were written down sometimes decades after they supposedly occurred. That and the bible we have now has been translated through several languages, had entire sections removed and added hundreds of years after being initially written. It is your right to have faith and I am not attacking that, but I fail to see why you would even try to defend the written gospel as fact.

      December 28, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
  20. William Demuth

    Find him and kill him

    December 27, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • Bo

      William, are there not many who wish that could happen. He knows he did wrong, he is a criminal and knows it, that is why he is on the lam.

      December 27, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Even if caught the punishment is not enough.

      He will NEVER stop, none of them ever do.

      Send him to his savior with a 9mm round into his BVD's

      December 27, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • claybigsby

      "Send him to his savior with a 9mm round into his BVD's"

      Lol 9mm?? I roll .45ACP son!

      December 27, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      I say find him, lock him away for the rest of his natural life with only big boys twice his size as cell mates...no visitors; no internet; no tv; shower on rare occasion; allow other prisoners to torment the fuk out of him mentally...make him suffer the eternal torment he has made his victims suffer.

      December 28, 2011 at 5:29 am |
1 2 3 4
« Previous entry
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.