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December 29th, 2011
05:48 PM ET
Bill Maher takes on Tim Tebow and feels the wrathBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)– On Christmas Eve the Denver Broncos were getting destroyed by the Buffalo Bills* on the football field and comedian, liberal commentator, and religious provocateur Bill Maher couldn't help but tweet about it.
People quickly responded to Maher on Twitter and called him (in summary) a hell bound atheist piece of trash. Maher's social media jab was picked up by the media too and landed in newspapers, websites and TVs everywhere. Pundits and twitter users called for a boycott of Maher's HBO show Real Time, and threatened to cancel their HBO subscriptions.
The timing could not have been better for Maher. The new season of his show begins next month and the week between Christmas and New Years is a veritable wasteland for actual news. In a world where no publicity is bad publicity, Maher scored big. Maher has long skewered people of all faiths as part of his act. In 2008, Maher starred in "Religulous" a documentary that poked fun at any and all religions. For all the fury aimed at Maher for the Tebow crack, the long time atheist received comparatively little heat for his Twitter dig at Jesus the next day on Christmas.
It was insulting Tim Tebow, not Jesus Christ, that drew the ire of a nation. "[Tebow's] public image is built on goodness and virtue," Patton Dodd said. Dodd is the author of "The Tebow Mystique: The Faith and Fans of Football's Most Polarizing Player" and the managing editor of Patheos.com. "His particular expression of Christianity, or Christian witness, is built on acts of kindness to the poor and needy and to strangers. It's not just taking a knee on the field and thanking Jesus after the games. I think a lot of his fans know that." Dodd said fans likely felt defensive towards Tebow, but acknowledged an athlete so public about their faith could not viewed as untouchable. "I think the difference here is what Maher said was particularly crass and crude and I think it's seen as aimed more ... at Tebow's fan base than Tebow," he said. For those who said Maher crossed an unspoken line with the tweet, comedian Pete Dominick said no way. "Our job is to push the envelope. There is no line for us. We don't have a line. You can make a joke about my kids getting cancer as long as it's funny. It has to be funny. That's the only rule, that it's funny. We're supposed to be controversial we're supposed to be provocative, that's what our job entails." "He's begging to be made fun of," Dominick said. Dominick, who is also the host of Stand Up! with Pete Dominick on the POTUS Chanel on SirusXM, said Tebow's outspokeness about his faith makes him a prime target for comedians. "He goes out on TV and talks about his faith, he puts it on his eye black. We're going to choose to make fun of it. Always." "I think it's the wrong thing to get upset about. It's a tweet. It's a predictable tweet from a guy who says these kinds of things and who has an audience who love him for those kinds of things," Dodd said. For his part Tebow has not commented on Maher's tweet, keeping true to his formula of not engaging critics. Dodd said part of what makes Tebow such a great athlete is his ability to block out the noise and focus on the game of football. Requests for comment from Maher were not responded to by his publicist but Maher tweeted on Wednesday night:
There Maher goes after Tebow in far more than in the 140 characters Twitter allows per post. If Tebow and his Bronco teammates can win on Sunday they will make the playoffs. *An earlier version of this story incorrectly had the Detroit Lions as the Broncos opponent. We regret the error and apologize to Bills fans everywhere. They have suffered enough this season. soundoff (2,202 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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For all you critics: News Flash! You will all be blubbering, crying and kneeling when it's your time to cross over! You will be able to take all those intellectualized debates to the Big Daddy on day. How's that for a bet... Oh yea, for the unbelievers and Bill Maher, take a hint and go to the Light. LMAO
yup thats the big trump card of religion.. that if you dont believe in the right stuff while youre alive, then youll still be alive even after youre dead and instead of attending the best party ever overhead on fluffy clouds, its fire for eternity. the only problem is IT DOESNT MAKE EVEN A TINY BIT OF SENSE. even if there are deities, there are so many other ways it could be, and yet this big grand threat, maximizing fear and minimizing any form of logic, is the way you think its all set up. the joke is actually on you but enjoy laughing at the rest of us daring to live our lives without the help of your invisible buddies
Mercyme
You sound like a cheap movie villain. Why not threaten to get our little dogs too? 🙂
The description of Maher could have been limited to just "piece of trash". He and that other comedian that think there's no line as long as it's funny? No. Some things are just not appropriate to mock. This idea that people can say whatever they want to as long as it's funny, or it's their opinion, or they're expressing themselves...well, it's hurtful. In extreme cases, it leads to people hurting themselves and/or each other. If something ever happens to Maher, if someone ever kills him and that person isn't an atheist, whatever religion they are will be blamed, but the simple truth is it's bullies like Maher that get a high on their power to hurt other people that's to blame.
Bill Maher-Thing Three. Remember...."look at me, look at me! Somebody, please!!
Meanwhile, the irony is that Maher was commenting upon Tebow doing something that made everyone look at him.
i was raised catholic, but im a happy and well-adjusted atheist today. in fact ive helped a handful of people leave their religion behind and back to living their lives properly. its amazing how much a thing like religion can sound good yet create so much pointless discordance
Interesting, I was raised luke-warm (Protestant) Christian, became an atheist for 15 years, and, for purely intellectual reasons, am now a happy and well-adjusted Catholic, living his life properly and joyfully.
justin if youre happy thats great but i have to say that while the reasoning for adopting a religion can be many things, but it cant be intellectual, since religion is purely faith-based. faith is by definition the suspension of logical reasoning
Interesting that a militant atheist like Maher can equally cause discord. I'm thinking it's not religion that's the issue, it's the person that decides to open their mouth and be hateful, regardless of their religion or lack thereof.
RC you should watch religulous.. maher respects religious people even if he has zero religious faith. the world is becoming a better place as religion fades away and is replaced by secular realism
Justin, it is almost impossible to leave a cult. Don't be afraid, keep trying.
Holy pap-smear this article brought out the blogunatics.
Is it weird that I absolutely LOVE reading the belief blog comment section? It's great to see where people stand on issues, extreme or not.
Tim Tebow sucks and so do all of you kneejerk quaterbacks sitting at home in you jesus fantasy. Belief does not make it real. Wake-up! Kudos to Bill Maher for telliing it like it is.
I read a post a few weeks back that made the most sense to me about Tebow and the reaction both good and bad that surrounds him. It made sense to me because I am a Christian. Now if you are not a believer, it all sounds foolish to you probably because "The Gospel" is blind at the moment as well. I understand that. I think most Christians at the end of the day get that too.
As for the post, it explained that God has always used unlikely men for His purpose. There are many examples of this in the bible. So if Tebow was a govt worker, he would be silenced pretty quickly about his faith and forced into some culture class education on tolerance and if he was a teacher, well you can pretty much count on him being pulled into the principal's office for a 'tsk tsk' reprimand on policy, so here are just a few examples of how freedoms in America are being silenced. Does it really surprise anyone that maybe God is going to use Tebow, an athlete, that can actually get away with expressing his faith and give Glory to His purpose? Doesn't surprise me. I don't think God cares about winning football games, but I do think He cares about children. Tebow has made it clear in the public that he is a child of God. So no matter what life brings, all things work for good that love the Lord. Will Christians be taunted and persecuted for loving God in their workplace? Sure. It's no surprise when non believers lash out and mock. Maher hasn't done anything unique. He has just decided to join the ranks of those that choose to be enemies of faith in their Creator, but deep down, he knows, God has written eternity on all of our hearts. Lets keep hope for those to have a change of mindset on all things sacred. There is always hope that eventually some will realize that life is hard for us all and yet God is good.
Maher has done nothing of the sort. He has simply pointed out the absolutely ridiculous nonsense Christian fundies will use to advertise their religious beliefs. You don't like it when others point out the lengths to which fundies will go to show off their 'faith' by praying in public. If there were a god, he wouldn't need people like Tebow to advertise.
Quote:"Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Maher has done nothing of the sort."
Ummm, yeah, he has done that! That's what he gets paid for is to "mock and make fun of things"
As for him having the "right" to say what he wants, I totally defend that. I believe in freedom of speech for all and that includes the likes of Maher and Tebow! So we should all agree that both have the "right" to express themselves.
Athough some will never admit it, and perhaps can't comprehend it at this time, it's not Tebow per say that upsets them, it's the sword of God's word that is behind faith in general that cuts and divides. You might not understand that, being a non believer at this time, but God is the best surgeon out there. His word is surgically working on all hearts all the time.
I'll try you, Human Error, because nobody else here seems to want to answer this. Does Tebow comply with Jesus' instruction in Matthew 6:5-6?
-5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
The Pharisees couldn't even come close to being as public with their shows of prayer as this guy, so am I wrong to find an inconsistency here?
Quote: “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Well Tebow isn't in a synagogue and/or on the street corner. He is in a place where one wouldn't expect one to kneel down and give thanks IMHO, no, he is in his work place and with that said, how can one judge a man if one doesn't know if that man doesn't close his own door also, outside of his workplace, and pray in secret? We can't see that can we? That's between God and Tebow. The way it should be.
I suppose giving thanks in all things at all times is very important to him. When I read that scripture that you shared, I don't really apply it to others salvation, but to my own. Since I am to be working out my own salvation in fear and trembling. In other words, I read it as "When I pray, I should" as it's directed to the one reading it and not as much as to use to judge others when they have their own convictions.
Isn't that the point, that it isn't our place to judge a man?
Human Error
"Well Tebow isn't in a synagogue and/or on the street corner."
Did Jesus make this distinction, or are you merely making excuses for the man? The Pharisees were religious experts, yes? So their 'work' was related to the synagogue. They may also have prayed while alone, but Jesus was calling attention to their elaborate public displays of prayer. God can read believer's thoughts and, as a Christian, Tebow ought to know this too, right? Jesus further instructs his followers to give their charity and to fast without similar displays in the rest of Matthew 6. “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." He says in verse 1. Don't you think he meant everywhere?
He isn't in Church, and he isn't even leading a prayer during the game, so why the big public display? Is he drawing people's attention to God by doing this, or to himself? As with the excessive thanking of Jesus many stars give upon winning awards, a lot of people see this as a rather sly way of highlighting their own talent. The greater the praise to the giver of talent (God) the greater the talent to give praise for must be. See what I mean?
Jimmy,
It's important to remember who Jesus was talking to and what He meant for sure. :
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others"
IT starts out with not being like the hypocrites that are being something they are not. Because they Love to pray standing to BE seen and admired by others! In other words, their motives were to please other men and they probably got a habit of feeding their egos with the attention that over time came with it, thus losing sight on having their hearts set on God and being in true fellowship with him via prayer. So if one is going to be a hypocrite with a motive in their heart to pray for the attention of other men to feed one's ego, then that's made clear as wrong and the rewards of doing so are explained in the scripture.
But, If one is not a hypocrite in their motives in their prayer, how are we to know? Again, to me, this scripture is for the individual to direct it towards themselves inwardly and to apply it to themselves so not to develop a hypocrite prayer.
So to seek out the knowledge on someone like Tebow , one would have to make judgement on a person that does pray openly then ask is that person praying a hypocritical prayer for selfish attention? But to really have insight into the truth of it, one would also have to know the motive of the person's heart when he or she prayed in public. How can we know this? God knows our hearts and our motives. I think to include Tebow in the rhelm of "a hypocrite" one would have to know his heart and motives to evaluate if he was truly trying to be something he is not. Can we know another's heart or motive when they pray to make that final judgement? That's why I see this more directed to the one that we can see and that is our own hearts, minds, motives, egos, etc. There we can work on not being hypocritical and keep our prayer on the glory of our Lord.
Human Error
Point is, Jesus was illustrating that making a big show of praying would make his followers LOOK like the hypocrites he was referring to, right?
Human Error
Even if someone began as a humble worshipper of God, the attention that they get by being so public may very well swell their heads, right? Perhaps Jesus was warning against this as well. His words in the Beat.itudes clearly illustrate the kind of personal character traits he valued. Oddly, many of these, like meekness, humility and peacemaking, are undervalued or even villianized by American evangelicals. Testimony sessions many times end up being a case of oneupmanship, where 'sinners' take great care to out do each other in how badly they behaved before being 'saved'. Such folks are the celebrities of Christian TV programming, and the guests of churches nationwide. Meanwhile, the poor guy who never hurt a fly in his entire life ends up feeling like less of a Christian because he didn't have to pull himself out of the gutter first. I really do feel for those guys.
Mark the dolt thinks I intend to make arguments that will persuade. I don't. My sole intent is to point out the idiocies, hypocrisy and stupidity of people like him.
I succeed on all counts.
So far all you have done is grade me on grammar. Can you show any post where you suceeded in doing anything other than a mastery of swear words and insults.
Look at every one of them. You haven't been able to present a single cogent argument, you little coward.
Bill Mahar has always been continues to be and will always be a sick MF'n liberal piece of S**T with no redeeming values at all I vote we kill the PR**K and let the rest of the world get along without his B.S.
You are one sick christian!
Slow down dude. Killing isn't anything that Christ, Tebow or any resonable person would suggest. Jesus tells us to pray for those that persicute them not kill them. Prayer is more powerfull than you think.
Christians say:" don't kill a fetus, wait till it grows a few years, then kill it!"
This is hysterical. What is so funny is that Christians and nationalists think is that BIll is the only one who thinks like this. Tebow is an American hero? I have never even heard of the idiot until now. I cannot believe an entire blog article is about Bill criticizing Tebow and that it was sensationalized only to further that. From reading these comments it only gets more entertaining. Atheists are not angry and hell bound people. If Heaven does exist, which I almost certain is does not (by this I do not mean I have doubts, I simply mean that I am a scientist and no evidence exists for any god(s) or heaven or hell) then I would not want to be there with the hateful masses of "life adoring and people loving" Christians anyway. As Mark Twain put it. "Go to Heaven for the climate and Hell for the company"
It's the Belief Blog editors. We have had football players and other major sports players pray before, during and after the game for ages. I wonder if it had been one of the NFL's African American players would the side of the news media that leans left had been willing to risk the wrath of the African American churches? Not like anything major is happening this year that would require the African American vote.
I also had not heard of Tebow until this year.
Thank God for Christians. They feed and clothe the homeless, are among the first to offer help during natual disasters, offer medical care to the indigent, construct wells for people who don't have clean water and construct orphanages. The list goes on and on. If your are a scientist and believe there is creation without a creator, that DNA was a random act of nature, and the universe in its complexity just happened, what does that reveal about your intelligence. it takes more faith to believe creation had no creator than to believe a master planner designed the world. The reason you haven't found God is the same reason a thief can't find a policeman.
dayna, if you go to richarddawkins.net you will see that non-believers make charitable contributions. Also, I look forward to seeing you chastise john fonyi above, or are you a hypocrite who is going to ignore him because he doesn't like Bill M?
@dayna Yeah... christians are the ones band from Burma because they offered to "covert" pagans for food, water and medicine. Yep, that's the christian way... "don't convert? we will either send out the crusades to kill you or we will withhold needed resources until you commit to our god". Yep. that's the ticket. And btw, people from all walks of life, beliefs, politics, whatever, donate time, money and resources to help the poor. Many people who served in the Peace Corps are non-christians, there are wealthy people in India who create banks for the poor so they can buy another cow or seed and you'll find others if you take your head out of the sand.
dayna
Ask yourself, do Christian groups do all of these fine things just out of the goodness of their hearts, or do they do them in order to get an opportunity to proselytize to the vulnerable? In many ways the things they do for charity are about as selfless as the toys McDonalds packs in its Happy Meals.
"it takes more faith to believe creation had no creator than to believe a master planner designed the world."
It actually takes very little faith as the evidence in fact does suggest this. How much faith does it take to accept the notion that a being so advanced as to be able to create an entire universe out of nothing always existed, somewhere, even before there was a "where" for it to exist, hmmm?
Bill Maher isn't married, has no children. He has no need to get on his knees and pray to God to help a potentially sick child of his to get better from a terrible illness, or help him with his marriage, etc. He makes his living off of derogatory jokes, and therefore doesn't really "work" for a living. He reminds me of a kid who is stuck in high school, smart-mouthed mode.
He will enter a very terrible place, once he finally goes to the "other side". There is a scary place for those who purposefully drag down the faith of the faithful. I pray for his soul. Just like Mr. Hutchins.
Who is Hutchins? Do you mean Hitchens? You obviously lack knowledge of who and what you are actually talking about. Marriage and sick children are not required to lead a faithful life. I have several single, unmarried, and childless friends who have faith and have need to pray, so your logic is flawed and full of ignorance. I would also argue that he works much harder than you. While you may not think so, he challenges ignorant people like you everyday and that is a work load, given current research shows challenging a fundamentalist,like yourself, only makes their view(s) stronger. As a 3rd year med student I hope you pray for more people like myself who are going to rely on our medical and intellectual property to save your life rather than falling to our knees to some sky god for advice and guidance.
@morpunkt Take em or leave em... you don't like em don't listen to him. If you don't watch his show, then who cares? He has a right to his opinion as you do your own. Yet christians always go on the defensive because they seem to be lacking faith in their own belief system. Why go on the defensive if you are committed to your belief? Could it be that those who choose to argue over their faith really don't have any in the first place? How come "christians" are posting stuff like "kill the pr1ck? It's because they are ignorant douchbags who don't practice what they preach.
morpunkt
Have you ever thought of how many jokes aren't derogatory in nature? Not many, right? All jokes are at the expense of someone, and since most right-wing folk appear to be too certain of their own correctness to make fun of themselves it's up to others to find the humour in them. So, maybe it isn't the fault of the comedians, but the fact that the conservative world view is such rich fodder for ridicule by it's very nature.
And Tebow gets fucked again.
Did u get yiur filthy mouth from your mother?
Tebow will eventually make a good QB, but lately his god hasn't been listening to his prayers. Maybe his god is testing him to see if he is worthy?
I canceled HBO years ago, Bill Maher has always been a left wing idiot. Thinks he's hip and funny–not, he's right up there
with Jeneane Crapalo
Honestly, how would a conservative even know what was hip, or funny? You could probably count the number of conservative trend-setters, or comedians on the hand of a single redneck, and one who is particularly unlucky with farm machinery too boot! 🙂
This world is so full of Jesus haters that there isn't even hardly any room for him even on the football
field, not too many people want him in there life until a tragedy happens then we suddenly believe, then
a light goes off. You know i do not know why i am even writing this because so many people seem to have
an ought against Jesus, why do we blame him for all the evil in the world and seem to hate even those
who pray to him, no wonder this world is in such a mess, not too many people pray anymore!! And some
are probably even scared to pray for fear of being persecuted for being a Christian!! Wouldn't you rather live
for him and be hated than to live a life without him and be eternally lost? Writing this was probably a waste of time
but if it helps even one person then i'm glad i did! The way to Heaven>Turn Right and go Straight...
"We the People" allows all legal Citizens to also have a "Bill of Rights", that (hopefully stills gives Unialable Rights. . .)
Fact a "Good" comedian/satirist knows how to push buttons, rember when (was it President Bush???) kicked him out of the USA? Hes' back and this time he RATED AAA, at gaining attention. Fact: Doing whats RIGHT or Religions > "FITS" what Jesus Christ, Buddah, Chrishna, ( the 3 diversities I study there are many and all are of equal signifance even Satinic and Athistism. Rembering that in a few faiths or religions believe that God/Ala kicked Satin and his deamons out of heaven to RULE this world. But the God/Jahova/Ala/the IS. . . . .gave each of us free-will or Choice.) Satin RULES look see how un-just life is. . . . 2000+years passing by and NOT ONE COMANDMENT FILLED YET. It can not stop each fulfillment must continue. Thanks Bill Maher, you just might turn out to be a Saint after all; keep up the REALISM >Jesus "Worshipers" like me need reminding! Helping those who can not help themselves has always been my "thing."
Jesus isn't the problem, it's his followers we are worried about. We don't hate jesus... it's more like "Jesus please protect us from your followers because they are ignorant, hateful and hypocrites".
Earl
"not too many people want him in there life until a tragedy happens then we suddenly believe,"
Desperate times tend to lead people to try desperate things, and even remote, illogical long shots. Some try Jesus, others magic crystals, or homeopathic remedies, or gambling their last dollars in Vegas, or on lotto tickets. Is this really such a great selling point, that people turn to Jesus when they have run out of rational things to do about their situation?
"why do we blame him for all the evil in the world"
Well, why do you thank him for all the good in the world? Isn't the same free will that you blame evil for also responsible for all the good choices people make? And don't say that Jesus is the cause for people doing good because the argument goes that an atheist cannot get into heaven even if they do good because they lack belief, so all people are capable of doing both good and evil, and they were doing good long before Jesus was born, right? He didn't invent 'good', so why credit him for all of it now?
"And some are probably even scared to pray for fear of being persecuted for being a Christian!!"
Didn't Jesus instruct his followers to pray in private? (Matthew 6)
"Wouldn't you rather live for him and be hated than to live a life without him and be eternally lost?"
Can I do that without believing that gays and non-Christians will go to hell for simply not believing, or do I have to step over these people's dignity in order to better my chances of getting in?
"Writing this was probably a waste of time"
Not to me, thank you?
Let David and Goliath duke it out.
Tebow believes so much in God that he thinks God makes him win a foot ball game. You all believe so much in football but are afraid to see the dead bodies of people that our country has made soldiers kill on TV. You will not watch a funeral of a dead soldier but instead you will watch a man hit and hurt another man on a football field for no reason other then it entertains your sickness to see people hurt each other , and you think god approves when one man hurts another on the field for no reason.
Good for Bill M. for the salt he throws hurts because it is TRUE and shame on those that it hurts because they are sick degenerates .
John, that sounds more of an argument that society has messed up priorities.
The interesting thing is that you are right. The problem is that we as a society have varying ideas of what should be the priorities of all citizens.
Some will claim that it is the environment. Others it will be general health or they will get arrogant and claim that it is only women's health or men's health. Education ... The economic picture ...
The plights of this group or that, are endless. Ever wonder why there are so many different rubber bracelets representing all the different cancers when it could just be a cancer bracelet? Maybe because those who support the battles are only interested in the cancers that could appear on their doorstep or the doorstep of someone they love.
Then we have that which entertains us. Be it sports, the arts or what ever. Ever see a ballet at the Met in New York or toured the Gugenhiem museum? Any of those can take time that someone else feels would be better spent doing something that they feel should be a priority.
There has to be time for leisure. I believe for the majority of society they view us coming to this blog to argue this way or that about Faith or None Faith is time that would better spent stuffing envelopes about the poaching of wild animals around the planet or opening up crisis centers for battered spouses.
Should we be ashamed that for time we choose to watch a football game or playing golf or going to a ballet recital? And what happens when priorities clash?
Could you possibly write MORE deathless prose about nothing?
Hi TomTom. Isnt that a " when did you stop beating your wife question" 🙂
But, since I have you here TomTom let's make this a learning opportunity. Maybe I can get you past this need to insult type of post from you lately. So its time to close our mouth and start the learning process.
John made some very interesting points. In fact I even agreed in a small way with the main point of his post. I then wanted to go deeper into society, causes and leisure.
Now TomTom, did I insult him... Did I declare that his post was pointless ... Now we both know the answer to all, is that I did not. I know the desire to insult and stomp your feet is a big draw to ones such as yourself TomTom but you have to surpress that side of your character unless your goal is not dialogue with both parties respecting each other.
On one of those heated emotional post you spit out below you mentioned compromise. Maybe if we were politicians compromise would be the issue or goal. On abortion and the death penalty I agree there is none. What I do hope to accomplish is peaceful dialogue ,that's all.
If to you, talks of peace and tolerance are foreign or to be avoided and angry words and exchanges the norm , then wow.... What differentiates you from some neo- Nazi skinhead or Rev Wright?
More bloviating from a moron. You are beyond stupid, Mark. Get a GED, dumb bunny. Your posts are nothing more than drivel and banality. Always have been. You dream you have some point to make. It's an illusion and a delusion on your part. You've never made a point in your life.
His posts WEREN'T pointless, you f* ckwit. You can't make them so by drooling on and on without end and making no point of your own whatsoever, Mark.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that you have actually said something. If so, it's hardly apparent to anyone but you. You simply emit brain-farts and dream they're coherent thought.
You're not fooling anyone, Annie. You can sing until the tomorrow after the end of time, and you still won't have expressed anything but banalities. It's all you've got.
John, you said it. Idiots who think there's some omniscient being who gives a ripe fig about a game that costs billions of dollars that would be better spent helping the poor are beyond stupid. Mark is a prime example. He doesn't even grasp the point you made. He has difficulty grasping the English language and needs help tying his shoes.
Funny. TomTom, one of the best signs that a person has nothing remaining in his ar'senal is when the only thing that they can post is continuous insults and swear words. If you haven't learned yet, you poor soul, is that I have gotten you so riled up that you are dancing to my drum. In other words all the swear words you can muster ..... What do you think I will do... Get mad ? LOL
All I had to do is post as I always do genuinely searching for peace and tolerance..and like Donald Duck ... Off you went. Essentially, you are the New Years fireworks that I missed seeing last night.
Look at yourself TomTom ....not engaging my arguments and points, knowing that you will come up short .... Now you are trolling for an emotional backlash. Some reason I can see the smoke coming from your head. Probubly when you did that dual post....within ten minutes of each other. One day you will learn to compile your thoughts into a single post. Not two and three in rapid order. 🙂
But please, continue maybe you will find my boiling point/ trigger. I doubt it but ,seeing you reduced to swearing is making my night here at work go by much faster.
Find Peace dude in 2012.
You can keep right on pretending, honey, but you aren't fooling anyone. You can't make a point because you don't have a brain in your head. You don't even grasp the points others make and then you dishonestly attempt to cover up your lack of understanding.
Please, dude, give it up. It's not working for you.
Of course, God is going to get involved.
He had 50 bucks on the Broncos and he had to give points ! ! !
He's going to be smiting anyone looking to collect. So be warned.
We are oft to blame in this,–
'Tis too much proved–that with devotion's visage
And pious action we do sugar o'er
The devil himself.
Marky from the Middle claims he doesn't come here to convert anyone and is happy to allow others to believe differently. Yet his posts make that statement a lie. Mark thinks abortion should be made illegal and that a fetus should have 'equal rights'. Like most who don't think beyond their simplistic blather, he can't figure out how that would work without infringing on the Const itutionally guaranteed rights of women, but no matter. It's just not that important to him that others be allowed to exercise their rights when those rights don't match up with Marky's belief system.
>>>"Marky from the Middle claims he doesn't come here to convert anyone and is happy to allow others to believe differently. Yet his posts make that statement a lie. Mark thinks abortion should be made illegal"
So ... Because that I believe that life begins in the womb and am pro-life.... Then you see me trying to convert? Wow, so when some Atheist groups file law suits over nativity scenes, and prayers in schools... On the grounds of just them disagreeing with me I can submit the claim that they are attempting to convert?
TomTom, dude you have one if those fear/hatred sense about you that is amazing. Any view other than your own and your world crumbles and then we watch you stumble around name calling and insulting as you attempt to cobble together who you are.
TomTom, look around dude. The days of your type are coming to an end. Folks are tired of fighting the wars that your types are at the root of. I do not hold to a Chamberlain type of appeasement between two groups but there has to be a point that your types that can not find a way to tolerance are laughed into dustbin of history.
Good grief, the other day your best argument that you could come up with is that I didn't put a "s" at the end of Atheist. When spelling becomes your best counter post then it is time that you sit back and just watch from the stands. Your really not ready to see away that one can debate and not fear losing who you are and what you believe.
Steve said that we were at an impasse. With you TomTom you can't even get to that point. Offer something other than name calling, learn from Steve and some of the others.
If not your post will continue to often look like the ramblings of a bitter old man.
More obfuscation. You are pretending you don't see the difference between wanting to be permitted to have your beliefs and forcing others to live by them. Why am I not surprised? You can't get that tiny brain of yours around the concept that your beliefs have nothing to do with law in a secular nation. Not one thing. You can yap on and on about the fetus and what your religious beliefs are about its sacred nature, but you don't get to force a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will without infringing on the rights she has under the Const itution. You don't get it. There's no 'compromise' when you are attempting to force your beliefs into law. I'm not surprised, though, because I don't think you're terribly bright. That's why a 'debate' with you can't occur. You aren't capable.
Stop imagining you are making some enormously interesting point in your silly posts, Mark. You aren't. I don't have to "offer" a thing to settle your hash, honey. You haven't had a thought that wasn't a mile wide and an inch deep.
And get it through your thick skull: I'm not a 'dude'.
It's laughable that you can't understand why people want to keep nativity scenes off property that is paid for by everyone's taxes and why people wish to make public schools places where prayer is not sponsored by authority and forced on children whose parents pay for their education. You see this as an attempt to "convert"? Ridiculous. You're so clueless it's really not any fun to discuss these matters with you.
You use a lot of words, Mark, misspelled or not, to say very little of substance. That's not name-calling. It's the truth.
I have no intention of 'sitting back and watching from the sidelines' while some mental midget attempts to impersonate a sentient being. I couldn't care less if some dimwit views me as bitter or angry. Not my problem. The fact that some dufus who can't spell and doesn't know how to differentiate between 'you're' and 'your' thinks he has a mission to dictate what sort of life I lead or what laws are enacted that restrict the rights the Const it tution guarantees me is reason enough from me to call you out.
Too bad if it doesn't tickle your fancy. You're a mean-spirited jerk who pretends to be a Christian, but your posts reveal you to be something quite a lot more ugly.
I don't pretend to be what I'm not. You do. You're a wolf in sheep's clothing, and I'll point it out whenever you post your drivel.
Wow. Three rambling post in under an hour....with the last being within ten minutes of each other. What's wrong TomTom, can't form what you want to say in single post responses? It just looks hillarious to see you throwing this out and that out hoping that one of your arguments stick. This is like watching a punch drunk fighter that does not know that he has been beaten.
Let it go TomTom your not posting, your babbling 🙂
Please continue to post and stalk..... I have no fear dude ... And I am going to keep posting in the same style. Tolerance dude.
It's "you're", you retarded dolt. You aren't even capable of learning. A chimp would have made more progress.
Enough, Tom, his argument can be thwarted without resorting to name calling or typo picking.
There is a point to be made about resources and the allocation of them. Should we be ashamed of what we spend on leisure? Maybe we should. We live in a society of foreclosed homes and thousands of homeless. The media rights to the NFL alone are expected to cost 8 Billion this season, How many could be fed, how many could be clothed, how many given housing for the rest of their lives if we were to but redirect the funds spent on putting a single season of the NFL on television?
As for debate about religion, yes, you are right as well, it is a distraction and so if we could all simply admit none of us know what comes after death or where the universe came from, but that the odds a tribe of 2000+ year old desert dwellers were any more accurate in their book of myths and legends than any of the other countless claims to the knowledge on the planet are exceedingly remote, and so building a society around their views of the answers to these questions is unwise, we could all move on from trying to force people to worship and obey a man who hasn't walked the Earth in millennia (if ever) and denying rights to certain groups in an attempt to make him happy, we could direct those resources to something more useful for humanity.
>>>”The media rights to the NFL alone are expected to cost 8 Billion this season, How many could be fed, how many could be clothed, how many given housing for the rest of their lives if we were to but redirect the funds spent on putting a single season of the NFL on television?”
Abraxas. I agree but so many will just make the argument or dual arguments. The first argument would be if you account for all those whose paychecks are tied to the NFL. We are talking about a lot of people. If we stop short and just consider the owners, players, management, and administration.. then yes the picture can be viewed negatively by more folks. The problem is that we have vendors. I am talking from Nike and Under Armour down to the dude standing in front of the stadium selling big cheeseheads, dog pound gear and Steelers Terrible Towels. We also can throw in all the people that maintain and operate the stadiums, training complexes, transportation. The list can go on and on. Some would even point to the high execs and make the jump to the ballet school where that execs kids take ballet to attempt to justify why the companies and organizations such as the NFL are good for society. Especially, a society that is fighting with unemployment.
For myself, I go with the other argument, in that where does it stop? How much money do we, as a country, pour into for example the Arts and such. A few years ago I was blessed to go with my sister to see the nut'crac'ker at the Metropolitan Opera in New York. Ok, I was not as impressed with it as I could have been but Art is Art. If it had been River Dance I would have enjoyed it way more 🙂 The Met is a non-profit but at the same time there are many non-profits that do more directly for the poor and hungry in society.
Currently the Metropolitan Opera, according to the New York Times:
“The Metropolitan Opera last year freed up $22 million of its $242 million endowment to help cover operating expenses. With the permission of the donors, $15 million was shifted into the less restrictive endowment trust as an emergency reserve. The move, reported in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday, was yet another effort by the Met to manage a deficit that is expected to be about $4 million for this fiscal year. With the permission of Chevron Texaco, the Met also moved $7 million in restricted funds. The Met has reduced the total budget by $18 million for the current fiscal year, resulting in an operating budget of about $300 million.”
300 million....15 million alone was put into an emergency reserve... Its not close to 8 billion but can you imagine how many kids could be fed decent meals before school or a host of many projects that most of us would deem worthy with just their emergency reserve? That is why I commented that what many of us feel as priorities is varied in our society. While I am not a huge pro-football fan and equally not that much of a ballet fan, I can value the leisure enjoyment that society benefits from both enti'ties.
Should we feel ashamed.... yes and no. Try this, when I go to see a movie and I spend $20 dollars if I go alone.... should I feel ashamed? Yes, I could have dropped that twenty at a homeless shelter...or try this … the collection plate at my church :). The problem then returns to the poor folks working at the theater. I feel ashamed and do not go to the movies, you feel ashamed and do not go to the movies, or even TomTom and others follow. Within a month or two... theater closes and we have about 20 folks now at the homeless shelter because they lost their jobs and could not pay their rent.
I guess that is how I have to think about such. When I watch a football game on TV, I have to try not to think about the administration of the NFL. I think about the guy mopping the floors and emptying the garbage, after they leave. I guess that is trikledown economics and the court is still out on if that is valid.
Your points on Religion, in respect, is simply that we should become Atheist and the world will be a better place. That is the reverse of the same argument that those on the Faith side make. Think of Bin Laden types of speeches where he declared that if we all just accepted Islam then all would be a happier world. I just believe that we can become a happier world when we stop formulating that for such a perfect world to exist that everyone should believe the same as ourselves.
Yes, others differences are a “distraction” but, to them our differences are equally a distraction. While we are trying to get them to “admit” they are wrong, they are trying to get us to “admit” that we are wrong.
If peace and a better society can only come when others “admit” they are wrong..... peace will never happen until they are eliminated.
...and as a History student... we all know the railroad tracks and boxcars that path will take us.
I can not believe that "nut'crac'ker" was the word that blocked my post.
Bed time...
On the reverse, however, the money not spent on hiring janitors for stadiums would instead be spent on construction workers to build houses, metal workers to build nails, tar workers to make shingles, lumberjacks and lumber yards for wood, etc. Trickle down economics or not, using the money to fund things like building houses would not remove it from the economy, it would redirect it to other market sectors that would benefit from the additional influx of capital and so you should still expect to see the ripple effect you describe if the theory is valid, the ripples just come from a different direction in the hypothetical.
Also, as far as guilt, the question was "should we feel guilty", not "do we feel guilty"; the two are very different and should not be confused.
My point on religion is not what makes the better world, it is the certainty with which people approach their religion when the simple truth is none of us know. Death is a threshold across which we cannot see, as is the beginning of the universe. Anyone who can tell you that they know absolutely what occurred beyond either of those boundaries has a bridge to sell. If the Roman emperor Constantine had not converted to Christianity, it is entirely likely many of the people here extolling their personal relationship with Jesus would instead be expounding at length about the wonder and majesty of Jupiter. As such, it makes no sense to center a society or pass laws attempting to make happy a being you can't be sure exists instead of working solely on the grounds of bettering the world we know is here and can readily experience.