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 The Bible presents us with an evolving story, writes John Shelby Spong.
December 29th, 2011
09:10 AM ET
My Take: The 3 biggest biblical misconceptions
By John Shelby Spong, Special to CNN The Bible is both a reservoir of spiritual insight and a cultural icon to which lip service is still paid in the Western world. Yet when the Bible is talked about in public by both believers and critics, it becomes clear that misconceptions abound. To me, three misconceptions stand out and serve to make the Bible hard to comprehend. First, people assume the Bible accurately reflects history. That is absolutely not so, and every biblical scholar recognizes it. The facts are that Abraham, the biblically acknowledged founding father of the Jewish people, whose story forms the earliest content of the Bible, died about 900 years before the first story of Abraham was written in the Old Testament. Actually, that's not in the Bible Can a defining tribal narrative that is passed on orally for 45 generations ever be regarded as history, at least as history is understood today? Moses, the religious genius who put his stamp on the religion of the Old Testament more powerfully than any other figure, died about 300 years before the first story of Moses entered the written form we call Holy Scripture. This means that everything we know about Moses in the Bible had to have passed orally through about 15 generations before achieving written form. Do stories of heroic figures not grow, experience magnifying tendencies and become surrounded by interpretive mythology as the years roll by? My Take: Bible condemns a lot, so why focus on homosexuality? Jesus of Nazareth, according to our best research, lived between the years 4 B.C. and A.D. 30. Yet all of the gospels were written between the years 70 to 100 A.D., or 40 to 70 years after his crucifixion, and they were written in Greek, a language that neither Jesus nor any of his disciples spoke or were able to write. Are the gospels then capable of being effective guides to history? If we line up the gospels in the time sequence in which they were written - that is, with Mark first, followed by Matthew, then by Luke and ending with John - we can see exactly how the story expanded between the years 70 and 100. For example, miracles do not get attached to the memory of Jesus story until the eighth decade. The miraculous birth of Jesus is a ninth-decade addition; the story of Jesus ascending into heaven is a 10th-decade narrative. In the first gospel, Mark, the risen Christ appears physically to no one, but by the time we come to the last gospel, John, Thomas is invited to feel the nail prints in Christ’s hands and feet and the spear wound in his side. Perhaps the most telling witness against the claim of accurate history for the Bible comes when we read the earliest narrative of the crucifixion found in Mark’s gospel and discover that it is not based on eyewitness testimony at all. My Take: Yes, the Bible really condemns homosexuality Instead, it’s an interpretive account designed to conform the story of Jesus’ death to the messianic yearnings of the Hebrew Scriptures, including Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53. The Bible interprets life from its particular perspective; it does not record in a factual way the human journey through history. The second major misconception comes from the distorting claim that the Bible is in any literal sense “the word of God.” Only someone who has never read the Bible could make such a claim. The Bible portrays God as hating the Egyptians, stopping the sun in the sky to allow more daylight to enable Joshua to kill more Amorites and ordering King Saul to commit genocide against the Amalekites. Can these acts of immorality ever be called “the word of God”? The book of Psalms promises happiness to the defeated and exiled Jews only when they can dash the heads of Babylonian children against the rocks! Is this “the word of God? What kind of God would that be? The Bible, when read literally, calls for the execution of children who are willfully disobedient to their parents, for those who worship false gods, for those who commit adultery, for homosexual persons and for any man who has sex with his mother-in-law, just to name a few. The Bible exhorts slaves to be obedient to their masters and wives to be obedient to their husbands. Over the centuries, texts like these, taken from the Bible and interpreted literally, have been used as powerful and evil weapons to support killing prejudices and to justify the cruelest kind of inhumanity. The third major misconception is that biblical truth is somehow static and thus unchanging. Instead, the Bible presents us with an evolutionary story, and in those evolving patterns, the permanent value of the Bible is ultimately revealed. It was a long road for human beings and human values to travel between the tribal deity found in the book of Exodus, who orders the death of the firstborn male in every Egyptian household on the night of the Passover, until we reach an understanding of God who commands us to love our enemies. The transition moments on this journey can be studied easily. It was the prophet named Hosea, writing in the eighth century B.C., who changed God’s name to love. It was the prophet named Amos who changed God’s name to justice. It was the prophet we call Jonah who taught us that the love of God is not bounded by the limits of our own ability to love. It was the prophet Micah who understood that beautiful religious rituals and even lavish sacrifices were not the things that worship requires, but rather “to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.” It was the prophet we call Malachi, writing in the fifth century B.C., who finally saw God as a universal experience, transcending all national and tribal boundaries. One has only to look at Christian history to see why these misconceptions are dangerous. They have fed religious persecution and religious wars. They have fueled racism, anti-female biases, anti-Semitism and homophobia.They have fought against science and the explosion of knowledge. The ultimate meaning of the Bible escapes human limits and calls us to a recognition that every life is holy, every life is loved, and every life is called to be all that that life is capable of being. The Bible is, thus, not about religion at all but about becoming deeply and fully human. It issues the invitation to live fully, to love wastefully and to have the courage to be our most complete selves. That is why I treasure this book and why I struggle to reclaim its essential message for our increasingly non-religious world. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of John Shelby Spong. soundoff (6,068 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 Next »
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Editor’s note: John Shelby Spong, a former Episcopal bishop of Newark, New Jersey, is author of "
Excuse for what? I'm not the one with the persecution complex or having problems with the "moderator."
Ooops – the above was meant for Theo.
John Spong has elements of truth and encouragement bookending a total dismantling of the Bible as God’s Word, calling into question the character of God, and proclaiming Jesus’ miracles complete embellishment. This is comparable to a man (not me) saying that his wife is a ly- ing, cheeding, hoersederve but makes the best cookies.
Spong spins God so spuriously because he misappropriates the holiness of God. Calling God immoral? That's what most theologians call blasphemy. Wonder what Spong thought of Abraham's test in Genesis 22. Was God immoral in what He requested of Abraham? Yet, Abraham was declared righteous for his faith! Apparently there is more to holiness and righteousness then morality. Read Fear and Trembling by Soren Kierkegaard, if so inclined. And how could God be a God of love if He commanded the things He did in OT. Once again, misunderstand holiness, misunderstand God. God is absolutely holy, perfectly just, incomparably merciful, and full of grace. Until holiness is solved in your understanding, most of the Bible will be absurd nonsense to you.
Why did God treat the Jews differently then their neighbors? What about loving your enemy? Why destroy them? And why order that it be done completely? Once again, until you read and wrestle with God and His holiness, it's all absurd. Another key to unlock this puzzle is the act of the covenant. Use google or whatever else and trace God's use of covenants throughout Scripture. Then you will begin to see it's not arbitrary, there's a legitimate pattern. Why was Abel's sacrifice better than Cain's? Blood covenants. Why is the blood so important to God? Once you've challenged yourself to understand all this, the Passover begins to make sense, and Christ's death on a Cross and subsequent resurrection becomes the ultimate gift of God and not some horrific oddity. All the absurdity yields to epiphany and a quick reshaping of your paradigm. Until you've gotten that far, you will have the natural response of most agnostics on this site. Can't blame them.
I agree that that Spong is wrong on several points, however I do not agree with your assessment of Cain and Able and why God had all of Israels neighbors killed. Firstly God rejected Cain because he gave halfheartedly, not because it was blood sacrifice. Also the reason why all of the caananites were killed was to keep his people safe and with him. Its funny that whenever Israel did not attack neighboring countries they fell away from God, and were then themselves conquered.
If God wanted to keep enemies at bay, He would have wiped them out Himself in any number of ways. This journey with His chosen people speaks more volumes than a blog can contain. Consider for a moment that a Christian is called to live a holy life and keep from sin. A Christian's personal battle against sin is only won while walking in the Spirit, and yet it's considered a battle to be fought daily. Similarly, the Jews were a covenanted people with God through a blood Atonement – see Genesis 15. And it was a serious covenant, marked by circ–cision. Look in Exodus 4:26 and see how Moses made a big mistake by nearly violating the blood covenant. If you miss the importance of blood covenants, you are missing something extremely significant. Consider all of the major sacrifices that Israel had to make. Were the major ones like Abel's or Cain's? God's selection of Abel's was to signify a future fulfillment of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, fulfilling the Atonement in His blood. Blood is very significant. Life is in the blood. Keep looking.
God used Israel's enemies like a refining fire for His people Israel. Anytime Israel's hearts turned away from God, God used their enemies to purify them. When they walked with God then they had peace with their enemies. Likewise, for a Christian, if we choose to live a carnal life, we will suffer in our souls – our consciences violated, our spirits downtrodden. But when we walk in step with the Spirit of God, then joy and peace return despite our physical circ–stances. There are many parallels from OT Israel to NT Church, not by accident either.
Theophilus7 talking to yourself is delusional, keep up the good work in showing the world how nuts you are. What an idiot.
By the way there is NO proof your God exists either.
To: **** Are you sincerely here on this blog to find proof God exists or just to call people names? If you haven't been reading the blog this whole time, you will realize that it has already been conceded that no one can prove the origin of all things. No one can prove there's a God and no one can prove there isn't. My post was in response to the writer John Spong's article then to Believer. If you wish to engage me, let's do it. But I'm here to reason. So if you're just a stone thrower, then move on.
"blasphemy"
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there's the other word I KNEW would eventually show up in this discussion. The one I correctly predicted yesterday that has also shown up is "Heretic" along with "Heresy". Do you theists know how ridiculous you all sound? You can't even agree amongst yourselves, let alone trying to "save" an atheist. Oh, and please don't even try. I know that might prove difficult to people who in my own experience are generally arrogant and condescending when espousing there religious dogma, but please just give it a shot. Continue arguing and name-calling amongst yourselves so the rest of us can continue to be entertained.
This particular post might be one of the best things i have ever read by a religious person. I not a religious sermon but if i could find someone that preaches like the above article then i would actually be willing to listen.
I don't think they are that hard to find. Contact the nearest University or Theological Sch. or Bible College and enrol! U will b amazed. Otherwise contact a local Presbyterian, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Congregational or Roman Catholic Church and ask for one-on-one if possible. It may grow.
2 Timothy 3:16, 17: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."
According to this scripture all that is stated in the Bible is the word of God. Therefore if we want to be successful we must adhere to what it says and try to the best of our abilities.
So, the book itself states that the book is the truth of god. Do you see the circular logic in this? It is no different from the old joke:
Rule #1 – the boss is always right.
Rule #2 – in the event the boss is wrong, see Rule #1
Re: circular logic – yes, this is circular logic. Now the question is: if God is real, and this Bible is His Word to us, then wouldn’t it make sense for God to reference Himself? I know… it’s a huge leap. But then think about it. If God were wanting to communicate with His creation, how would He accomplish that so that each generation would be able to learn about Him? He chose a race – the Jews. Then He had the scribes write it down for future generations. He displayed His power to this chosen group. Then He visited the planet – Jesus. Then had people write it down again. How would you do it? Especially if faith is what you’re after? If God didn’t care about faith, He could just show Himself to each generation repeatedly and do sign after sign after sign. Jesus kind of proved that this method doesn’t work. People come for the signs and not God. They show for the wrong reasons.
Scripture is "inspired of" God. Amen. The Scripture of which the author wrote was the Hebrew Scripture, as the Koine Greek Scripture was, at the time, not considered to be "Holy", but simply accounts of the good news, first of the Kingdom of God, then of Jesus himself; these were actually preceded in part by letters from Paul, then at later dates others in Paul and others' names. At a later date these were selected from a large number of writings of many different theologies and accounts, assembled into the cannon of Christian orthodoxy. There is no backing for the "inerrency" of Scripture, Hebrew, or Greek, "in the original" or its many later distortions, as a history or biology text. To treat it so is to reduce it from the Spirit that gave it, to a quite fallibile and foolish exercise in futility. in short it is heresy and blasphemy. Don't worship the Bible – read it and follow the teachings of love, justice, equality, and peace that gradually evolve from bloodthirstiness.
Friend Spong – as one with a 7 year perfect attendance pin, and three years alterboy crosses, I wish you would try to help reform your Anglican Communian so it would not drive away people such as myself from Xtianity for almost half my life, until i realized that i had been a Quaker all my life. And see what you can do about changing it from a sanctified political social club to a Spirit centered assembly, just as I have been doing among Friends. . (You will remember Friends, the Anglicans had us killed by the hundreds in filthy dungeons, 350 years ago. Well, we all change, and we all carry the sins of our fathers.) Peace be with thee.
JSS is all wrong about the Bible!!!!
He is a secular humanist who doubts every thing about God.
The Bible is true as theology, history and science!!!
It is totally reliable and to be believed as God's Holy Word.
The Old Testament and New Testament are totally and 100% accurate and in agreement.
Jesus said "Except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins." This is true since the first promise of the Savior was made to Adam and Eve right after they sinned. This promise was repeated throughout the Old Testament and fulfilled in the birth of Jesus Christ. Salvation has always been by faith in the Savior – Jesus Christ.
By the way there are at least 12 secular writers from the time Jesus lived on this earth as a man that wrote about Him and confirm most of what the 4 Gospel writers wrote.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!! Those who do not believe are already condemned because they have not believed See Acts 16:31 and John 3:18
Don L,
I don't know who your "at least 12 secular writers" are, but if they include any of these, please read:
"Virtually all other claims of Jesus come from sources outside of Christian writings. Devastating to the claims of Christians, however, comes from the fact that all of these accounts come from authors who lived after the alleged life of Jesus. Since they did not live during the time of the hypothetical Jesus, none of their accounts serve as eyewitness evidence.
Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian, lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus. Although many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius), Josephus' birth in 37 C.E. (well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus), puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., after the first gospels got written! Therefore, even if his accounts about Jesus came from his hand, his information could only serve as hearsay.
Pliny the Younger (born: 62 C.E.) His letter about the Christians only shows that he got his information from Christian believers themselves. Regardless, his birth date puts him out of range as an eyewitness account.
Tacitus, the Roman historian's birth year at 64 C.E., puts him well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.
Suetonius, a Roman historian, born in 69 C.E., mentions a "Chrestus," a common name. Apologists assume that "Chrestus" means "Christ" (a disputable claim). But even if Seutonius had meant "Christ," it still says nothing about an earthly Jesus. Just like all the others, Suetonius' birth occurred well after the purported Jesus. Again, only hearsay.
Talmud: Amazingly some Christians use brief portions of the Talmud, (a collection of Jewish civil a religious law, including commentaries on the Torah), as evidence for Jesus. They claim that Yeshu in the Talmud refers to Jesus. However, this Yeshu, according to scholars depicts a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia at least a century before the alleged Christian Jesus or it may refer to Yeshu ben Pandera, a teacher of the 2nd centuy CE. Regardless of how one interprets this, the Palestinian Talmud didn't come into existence until the 3rd and 5th century C.E., and the Babylonian Talmud between the 3rd and 6th century C.E., at least two centuries after the alleged crucifixion. At best it can only serve as a controversial Christian or Jewish legend; it cannot possibly serve as evidence for a historical Jesus.
Christian apologists mostly use the above sources for their "evidence" of Jesus because they believe they represent the best outside sources. All other sources (Christian and non-Christian) come from even less reliable sources, some of which include: Mara Bar-Serapion (circa 73 C.E.), Ignatius (50 – 98? C.E.), Polycarp (69 – 155 C.E.), Clement of Rome (? – circa 160 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100 – 165 C.E.), Lucian (circa 125 – 180 C.E.), Tertullian (160 – ? C.E.), Clement of Alexandria (? – 215 C.E.), Origen (185 – 232 C.E.), Hippolytus (? – 236 C.E.), and Cyprian (? – 254 C.E.). As you can see, all these people lived well after the alleged death of Jesus. Not one of them provides an eyewitness account, all of them simply spout hearsay."–http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Saul of Tarsus nicknamed Paul-Jewish Lawyer and Rabbi. Luke the Medical Doctor. Matthew-Roman Publican. Gamaliel-Jewish Rabbi. Herod Antipas-Jewish King. Look if u discount their witness saying they are fictional how can u say Josephus, Plinius or any other lived. U want independent witness? Silly
U forget also that Christianity was originally a Jewish sect-the Nazarenes. People cud read n write. The Roman Empire was almost as advanced as our own culture. With freedom of religion. If u think there was a Jerusalem Times to consult u r just not thinking. I want u to claim Paul did not exist!
Lawyers explain away evidence n block evidence all the time does that mean no crime was committed? Certainly not! Law is part of oratory-a literary skill. It's not a science. Is there evidence Christ lived? yes! Re u going to admit it? Its up to u! But rem'ber CHRIST is innocent till proven guilty
If u read any of the NT books u do not see Copyright AD73,etc. I did not see any time capsule with the 'original' Antiquities by Flavius Josephus but u feel free to slander a Saint. And the literate Pharisee rabbis stood by and watched this Gentile do it. Y do the Jews believe he existed?
Don L. – well done. I'd like to join the fray, but each time I submit a lengthy reply to one of the main contributors on this blog, whose name I will leave unsaid, my post gets stopped. I've had 3 successive posts all get stopped. If I leave minor, non substantial posts like this, then they get posted. Kudos to you on standing firm. To the other blog poster who has engaged me, if you wish me to reply, I probably have to do offline since it's not letting me in. Unless you marked me as abuse, which is hard to imagine from the other stuff that's been written here. Anyway, keep going Don.
Theo7 I think maybe its just a program support problem. I have had to repost several times to be heard. I hope u also stand firm.
Don L, are you sure that the NT and the OT coincides and it should for it is all one book right?, but guess what NOT, the NT(not true) and to prove it to you in timothy 4v4 he says all animals are good to eat but our Creator YHWH says eat clean animals in Deut.14 and Leviticus 11, then in romans peter says the law is wrath, but YHWH the Father says do the law in Duet.32v45-47 and in Malachi 4v4, for it is the prolonging of our life. Then in john 8v33 he says that no man has ever been in bondage to any man, a lie, Israel the chosen was in captivity after 161BCE and in Amos 5v5 bondage even today. I can go on and on and jc, the good ship jesus (the first slave ship) is said by christians now that he is YHWH but I thought that christians said that jc was the Son of the Father YHWH now which is it? The book of remembrance the so called OT told to us by YHWH in Malachi 3v16 from Genesis – Malachi is the true Word of the Creator YHWH and remember in Malachi 3v6 YHWH assures us that He changes NOT, that means His law nor His Word never changes. As in no one can die for anyone else Sins taught to us in Jeremiah 31v30 and Ezekiel 14v14. YHWH your Father does not go back on His Word besides YHWH forgave our sins and redeemed us as He says in Isaiah 44v22, and this is for not only Jacob but for all nations. Because He is our only Savior in Isaiah 43v3,11 and Isaiah 49v26. Learn Truth for in Malachi 2 and Jeremiah 23v1-3 YHWH expresses His anger from these lies misleading the flocks of the priest and pastors popes rabbis elders in Ezekiel 20 and they will be dealt with in the day of YHWH.
There are other things I can point out but if u want to dispute Christ using Law that was done in the Middle Ages. We use science nowadays. No room for grey just black and white. Go n fill ur tank. How many times r we to say this? Science does not prove God does not exist. Maybe Law but not science.
The Talmud existed in the 1st century AD but was not written down. This is what the NT call the Jewish laws or Jewish traditions. They were written down by the Pharisees at the times u speak of. Christians, Jews and Moslems use the Bible to study not poetry recitals. James,Jesus' bro was a Pharisee.
No God – no judgement. God – judgement depends on which God. Bible God – judgement depends on your hermeneutic (method of interpretation). Importance? Some hermeneutics of the Bible God will have extraordinary consequences for those who reject.
The Bible has no science in it. We did not get antibiotics or computers out of the bible, we got those things because someone actually sat down and did some thinking.
Theophilus7: There is an inane automatic word filter here. If your post contains any of certain word fragments, it will not appear.
Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
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ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, drift-wood, etc.
ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
hu-mp… as in th-ump, th-umper, th-umping
jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
nip-ple
o-rgy….as in po-rgy, zo-rgy, etc.
pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
p-orn… as in p-ornography
pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
que-er
ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
sl-ut
sn-atch
sp-ic.....as in desp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
sp-oon
sp-ook… as in sp-ooky, sp-ooked
strip-per
ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
wt-f....also!!!!!!!
In actual fact read all the rules not the single quote someone just wrote. Get a Bible and read. Try to understand it. Clue is to love ur neighbour as urself. Goal spiritual enlightenment and eternal life. Don't tell me u didn't understand the quote. Cynicism sounds stupid in ur voice.
I luv these jerks who try to discredit the bible and promote their own feelings. History truly does repeat itself.
Relictus made the silliest comment yet by an atheist on this page. NO THE BIBLE IS NOT A BOOK ON PHARMACY OR ELECTRONICS. If u want to learn them from a Physics, Chemistry or Biology text u must have ur head examined. The Bible is more in the region of Psychology and Psychaitry and Psychoanalyses.
Nii
Tell that to your silly cohort, Don L, who is the one who Relictus is responding to, and who said in the original post:
"The Bible is true as theology, history and science!!!"
Get over it
How come ur perceptive abilities are reduced? Do u see me n Dan L as doing a PR job? Certainly not. Until u can show him how God does not exist using scientific evidence instead of legal arguements explaining why u think God doesn't exist, he is free to believe it is true a 100%.
In fact it may grow into a special agnostic/atheist congregation who knows? I make a special recommendation for the Anglican/Episcopal Church as our Liberalism is not in doubt. We also have freedom of theological thought as well. Now what else do u want? lol
Nii
"Until u can show him how God does not exist.."
I'm not going to prove anything to him. The likliehood of his/your god existing is very low. You (and Don L) are making the claim that it does exist, therefore you are responsible for the proof.
So, as it stands now:
- The Bible as true as a Theology resource = unproven
- The Bible as true as a History resource = in a limited way, perhaps, not including about 95% of the world's history
- The Bible as true as a Science resource = zero
To Relictus: Apparently God did not think we needed a science book. In Genesis, we’re told to take dominion over the earth, using our minds that He created is implied. Google 'handwashing in Bible' – link called 'Is the Bible scientifically and historically accurate.' The ancient tribe of Israel was employing handwashing thousands of years before our US hospitals figured it out. Command for monogamy addresses transmittable diseases. I could list about 20 plus scientific observations with references found in the Bible without using the internet, but you could find them yourself if interested. Here’s a gimme: earth is round (Isaiah 40:22) about 2000 years before Galileo ‘discovered’ this. Check out Job 38. There’s a few in there. Hydrologic cycle is described in Job 28:25, earth suspended from nothing – Job 26:7. I could keep going but you get the point. But once again, our Creator apparently didn't think we needed a science book. We could use our own minds that He gave us. But He did believe we needed a Savior. I don't know about you, but we humans are very destructive to ourselves and others. I think His gift to us serves our real need.
The book of Job is usually considered to be poetic in design and was never meant to be scientific in nature. We don't go looking at the Tempest for how to live on a deserted island.
To GetOverIt: How do you know your parents are your real parents? Have you personally done the blood tests? We accept things on faith all the time. The origin of all things takes faith no matter what. Trying to opt out of responsibility because someone hasn't proven it to you is no excuse. I agree there should be people helping you to gather enough information to help you form your own opinion, but you’re not going to find anyone on the planet with definitive proof of any view of the origins. But be careful if you think you are safe by taking that stance. For example, if the Bible really is true, and for you that may be a huge IF, consider what it says to those who want to hide behind the ‘prove it to me’ argument: “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” – book of Romans 1:20. I hope this is not true of you and that you indeed intend to sincerely investigate and challenge the claims and authenticity of the Bible. It has stood up to many a sincere atheist. Josh McDowell was one. Google him.
To Uncouth: I'm not sure you even read what I wrote. Read it again. Identify my main points. If need be, I'll write an outline for you. Hint: see first two sentences and see the last five sentences.
What a sensible and factual article about the Bible. Of course, it will be ignored by many religious folks who need absolutism in their beliefs. They respond only to an authoritarian voice and don't seem to care much about whether facts are involved in the presentation. The Bible was a compilation of Jewish histories and popular myths and folk tales of that era and should not be taken literally by an sensible person. It's frightening that so many people just reject facts and choose to believe whatever outrageous things they are told to believe.
And so another sermon on how sensible atheists are and how stupid believers are is given. I do not see y as a scientist n a believer I shud follow u down ur paths of unbelief. I was not taught 2 believe by a high-sounding article like this one. I study theology myself along with history n psychology
The information provided by the Bible can b digested into the simple phrase love ur neighbour as urself. If I follow this message n I find love, joy,etc I can only b grateful. That Jesus our God lived on Earth is undisputed historically. I lived with an agnostic most of my life n my he was sad.
Nii,
You ruin your own credibility as a "scientist" when you write the way that you do. Try again.
No god or the jesus myth is required to figure out or live by "The Golden Rule."
Nii,
Wrong again. The historicity of Jesus is only disputed by followers of the Bronze Age cult that you are in. There is NO extra-biblical, contemporary evidence that this guy ever existed.
Jiimtanker. Are u the one who is suffering from my writing skills? Ok pls kindly give me pointers on how to write to ur satisfaxion. I did'nt study Writing. If it is my SMS text shorthand u complain about then I am sorry as I am limited by my fon to 300 x'ters per post. Looking forward to ur reply.
I hope u r not trying to b funny but the Roman Empire was not a Bronze Age culture. If u don't know just check. I think u need further History lessons. I do not do sniping of ideas. I exchange them. Be smart.
I’m not suffering from anything, least of all a god delusion.
I’m just saying that your credibility suffers when you write like a 12 year old and few will believe that you are a scientist if you continue to do so.
I do know that the Roman Empire was not a Bronze Age culture. I also know, which you may not, that the myths that make up the Judeo/Christian fable come from a much older time. The roots of these myths come from ancient Samaria tales, but you may never heard of that.
I think Marcus Garvey did not exist. Why? Oh u know that W.Indians tell folk tales from W.Africa n therefore they related it to a probable historical figure and Bob Marley and Culture sang about him and boom a legend is born. Come on u know Herod, Augustus Caesar and Pontius Pilate existed.
A great man once said, "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds! "
You should take that advice and think for yourself.
That is no 'great man' but Bob Marley. he believed in YHWH, Jesus n Emperor Haille Sellasie as the Second coming of Christ. He belonged to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, was Messianic Jewish, and a Nazirite. Don't u have any atheist great man to quote? I suggest Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Castro my fav!
You're saying that Bob Marley wasn't a great man and not worthy of quoting?
Nii Croffie
"That is no 'great man' but Bob Marley. he believed in YHWH, Jesus n Emperor Haille Sellasie as the Second coming of Christ."
And I'll bet that he (and other Rastas) would spout chapter and verse from the Bible, historicity and 'real' meanings from that book, refer to 'inspired' "prophets", and a "feeling in my heart", or "I just *know*" or "God talks to me" to justify their beliefs...
I was really looking forward to getting a quote from Castro. Seems u do not know much about ur chosen religion. As for prophecy pick THINK AND GROW RICH by Napoleon Hill up and read. I wud have given u my own experience but as the Chinese say," Teach a man to fish..". Oh I thought Bob was ur hero?
Jiim I now know why u cudn't understand my writing. I meant Bob Marley is great but quote an atheist. There is absolutely nothing wrong in quoting Bob. In fact he is one of the reasons I keep my faith. As I said try to find a great atheist. On this page I don't see one but if u read u def'tly will.
U guys are blocked n I thought I had a bad connexion! Anyway u guys talk too much. Moderaator keep blocking. lol
Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldeans, a Sumerian-related culture. This theory that Hebrews could not write I don't know where it came from. Every time I hear it it sounds funny. Thank u facts.
The hebrews could not read because at the time of the existence of Abraham, no one could. Writing wasn't invented at all until 3500 B.C.E. and the first alphabet wasn't invented by the Egyptians until the 27th century B.C.E. The Hebrew alphabet was invented around 600 B.C.E.
I do not know about Samaria tales. And I write like a 12 yr old. However I do not need insults to know that people living today cannot definitely know what happened in the 1st century AD. If they cud we won't b arguing wud we? I have docs which tell me that Pontius Pilate lived, Herod lived. Jesus?
I do not know about Samaria tales. And I write like a 12 yr old. However I do not need insults to know that people living today can't definitely know what happened in the 1st century AD. Its like telling me Martin Luther King did'nt live n relating it to the W.African folk tales which W.Indians tell
Check Wikipedia on alphabet nd then check Abraham. then make a comparison of dates
Nii C. YOU NEED TO TURN TO SOMETHING BETTER TONTO, AND DO WHAT'S RIGHT THE TRUTH.
Coco u need help. I can't make sense of anything u say. U r too messed up even for a LDS refugee. I hope u were not kicked out. The LDS I know can speak intelligently about their religion. If u can't hmm? I love u as myself. I just wish u actually seek help I am searching one for u ok.
Nii Croffie yes I knew you were a messianic jew and many of them do double talking from jc to YHWH oh, you say yahwey this is not YHWHs name.I would never join such crap they are coming and going with lies star of david indeed. No such thing this is not of the Creator YHWH. Don't tell me what I need to learn for you have learned how to double talk lie. That's the new change over in the NT that Moses warned us of in Deut.32v17. And that Daniel 11v36-45 has warned of as well an the antichrist and strange gods that will increase to rule over many to divide the land for GAIN. You learn this you heathen do not try to use your flattery on me, for in Isaiah 34, Ezekiel 35v1-5 and Malachi 1v1-5 where YHWH has plans for those of your kind his enemy in Psalms 83 and Exodus 17v14-16 for generations YHWH told Moses and Joshua Yoshua of them of your kind . Selah.
CoCodol52,
I doubt that you would buy a used car from Moses if you ran into him today. Ezekiel and other 'prophets' would be like these "End of Days" nuts, blathering in a park somewhere. Psalmists would be modern-day songwriters and poets (maybe even rappers), and the other storytellers would be Hollywood screenwriters and novelists and historical fiction authors (btw, there are many Jews who go into those professions). Revelation is just an early sci-fi/horror/fantasy tale.
There is not a whit of verified evidence for the supernatural beings and events of the Bible.
U are right about Ezekiel and the prophets, Moses and the psalmists, if you read the bible that is exactly how they are described, the Bible says that the people of the time diddnt listen to the prophets. The Israelites diddnt even want to follow Moses out of Egypt and the Psalmists used the music of their time. Yet somehow all these people still got remembered...
Facts you are right and I meant to say that its one of the oldest languages sorry for that.
Theophillis7 good for you yes Daniel is prophesying the AntiChrist and this is Christianity, the good ship jesus the first slave ship, and Islam all religions are antichrist for they are idolatry. The vision of Daniel helped by Gabriel is to warn us in the latter days the end times the 4th kingdom Daniel 2v40, and here we are as said in Daniel 11v39 strange gods that will rule over many to divide the land for GAIN. This is what is going on with religions. Stop lying to mislead the flocks its the end times the truth is here, you know that in Isaiah 43v3,11 YHWH the Father says that He is our only Savior no one else. And in Isaiah 44v22 He is our Redeemer and in Isaiah 60v16 and Isaiah 49v26 YHWH tells us again He is the Savior and Redeemer and in Isaiah 43v13, He says that no man can be delivered from His hands. YHWH says do not liken Him to no one in Isa.40v18. We all can get saved and hope when we do the law of the Creator in Exodus 20 the commandments and return to your Creator YHWH in Malachi 3v7. No one can die for anyone's SINS as taught in the truth the book of life in Malachi 3v16 the book of remembrance, the OT in Jeremiah 31v30, Ezekiel 14v14, and Ezekiel 18 stop misleading the flocks as in Ezekiel 34 YHWH says He will rid of these greedy shepards, priest,pastors, popes, rabbis elders, the liars, and bring us all Jacob and other nations back to the truth with better shepards and He will be with us all forever.
In my experience people do not leave a cult for a church. They leave to for another cult or form their own. Coco is one such person. Stop seeing evil in everything. THAT IS HOW JOSEPH SMITH STARTED. Christ did not care about religion however and neither did YHWH. Love ur neighbour as urself.
You are double talking again just lies there is no evil here this is TRUTH and you are afraid of it. Why else would the Father YHWH warn us in many scriptures of the deceitful pastors? This is not just referring to the priest and pastors of the old days, this is what the jewish writers missed hoping to stray people away from the book of life the OT by disgracing the pastors priest of the old days for most were Hebrews then and they angered and strayed away from the Creator YHWH. And all were punished in Lamatations. But, people listen and learn the what you call 'bible' is the book of life OT book of remembrance in Malachi 3v16 and it is juxtaposed, meaning it tells the past, future, and present do not let them fool you anymore these are the end times and now the truth is here.This is no evil no cult this is the Truth and the righteousness of the Almighty Creator YHWH of His Spirituality and peace of what we should have been given by these pastors and priest but they got greedy just like in the old days it hasn't changed, just like the one NiiCroffie the drunk he will never tell the truth but he will meet his maker and those drinks will not save him for he said himself that he drinks much he knows he's not truthful.
I love and respect you as myself just as you are just the way you are because God loves us all as Himself with all His Life just as we are just the way we are no matter what. Enjoy ur day Coco.
SOMETHING ELSE THEY DO NOT TEACH IN THE NT THAT DAVID THE SERVANT OF YHWH WAS BORN IN BETHLAHAM SAMUEL 16 AND 17 HE IS OUT OF THE ROOT OF JESSIE. DAVID'S SEED WILL GOVERN ON THE THRONE OVER US AS YHWH TEACHES US IN ISAIAH 40 OF YHWH GIVING HIS SPIRIT TO HIS ARM THE SEED OF DAVID. THEN YHWH MAGNIFIES HIMSELF TO LET US KNOW DO NOT LIKEN HIM TO ANYONE IN ISAIAH 40V18. YHWHs NAME IS NOT LORD, GOD THESE ARE PROFANE AS SAID IN EZEKIEL 36V22,23 DONE BY THE PASTORS THEN AND NOW NOT TELLING US THE TRUTH OF THE CREATOR YHWH, YHWH IS THE ENGLISH VERSION OF HIS HEBREW NAME
Theophillus7, I can imagine that the truth must hurt, know the truth of your Creator and Father YHWH, for I read the book of Daniel and as he says in his vision helped by Gabriel to know, is that the Good Ship Jesus is Christianity for as Fredrick Douglas said the church bell rang at the same time as the slave auction bell, and this they want for us to believe, yeah, rightread Psalms 137. The NT was written by hellenistic jewish romans the enemy of YHWH Psalms 83 and Exodus 17v14-16, in 200AD changing the OT and YHWH the Creator says He changes not in Malachi 3v6, not any of His law this is for our righteousness. Also, in Isaiah 60v16 and Isaiah 49v26 the Creator YHWH says that He is the only Savior and Redeemer and in Isaiah 43v13, it tells us that no man can be delivered from out of YHWHs hands. Then in Isaiah 48v10-12 YHWH says that He will not give His glory to No One. See that NT was warned to us from Moses in Deut.32v17 of the newly raised strange gods in the latter days. There are so many changes in the NT against the true Creator that one better get out of that. For YHWH say do the law in Malachi 4v4 and all through the OT. There is no mention of any jesus anywhere. The scripture in Isa 9 and 53 are not jc these are the servant from the seed of David this is also said all through the OT which is truly called the book of remembrance from the Father YHWH in Malachi 3v16. Besides according to the NT jc is not conceived of any seed, and No one can die for anyone elses sins as prophesied in Jeremiah 31v30 and Ezekiel 14v14 and Ezekiel 18 everyone is to do their own righteousness including Noah Job Daniel. The NT lies and to confirm this YHWH i angry with all the pastors Jeremiah 23v1-3, the elders in Ezekiel 20, the priest in Malachi 2 and the popes and rabbis for telling these lies. All religions are idolatry as taught to us by YHWH in Duet.30 32. YHWH is Spirituality and Jacob will bring the light unto the gentiles and nations Jeremiah 16v16-21 this too is said all through the so called OT the book of remembrance, in short the book of life. The goodspell took and mislead the flocks away from YHWH because of vanity and control and they want to keep the chosen from knowing who they are not their job only YHWH has this say so. As prophesied in Ezekiel 34 YHWH will reclaim His people among other nations who too will love Him. The day that the sun won't shine is near so people all get ready and do the law. Exodus 12 passover, Leviticus 23 sabbath and Exodus 20 and Duet 4,5 the commandment. Then eat right for your prolonged life as Moses told us in Deut.32v45-47 the dietary is in Deut.14, and Leviticus 11. Remember this is no religion this is our Life there is no such thing as the star of david, hanukka all pagan, easter, christmas, all pagan there is no revelence to any rock to bow down to in Islam this is pagan and so are all religions they are used for control of the masses and GAIN as said in Daniel 11v36-12v10 of the end times now people we are now in the 4th kingdom as prophesied in Daniel 2v40 of these visions and Daniel 2v1-49 read it of the visions that are going on right now. Selah!! not amen that too is pagan its egyptian sun god prais amen rah amen sirapus get away from that.
AND TO ADD..THE BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE IS PROPHESIED IN MALACHI 3V16, THE LAST PROPHET UNTIL THIS DAY. LEARN THE TRUTH READ GENESIS – MALACHI THE TRUTH. AND DO THE LAW THE COMMANDMENTS THERE ARE ONLY 10 AND THEY MAKE GOOD SENSE AND IS WHAT WE NEEDED IN THIS WORLD IN THIS LIFE. FOR THE CREATOR MADE US HE WOULD KNOW THE KING AND FATHER YHWH.
Coco, you must run this blog or know the guy who does because you have free reign to say whatever you like. I just finished a rather lengthy reply to you and the moderator blocked me. I wasn't cursing or condemning or maligning. Just replying to your points. So much for free speech! I may try again ... but have a feeling I'm on someone's radar.
Old to New, it's all about the covenant, the blood covenant. Old through Abraham, new through Jesus.
Theophilus7
"...but [I] have a feeling I'm on someone's radar."
That's just a wrong as your hunch about supernatural stuff in the Bible being true.
See the real reason up higher on this page...
CoCo, there are numerous references in OT regarding Jesus. I was going to sum them for you but each of my attempts was blocked by the moderator.
If you are too stupid to beat the "moderator" especially after being told about how it works, you must be a believer.
Ogre, thanks for the tip. Yes, I probably talk too much. But it seems like a few people get to run this whole blog and no censoring for them at all. Or, like I thought in my other comment, CoCo knows or is the moderator.
Either way, re: your comment – If you take away the supernatural from Jesus, you don't have a Savior at all. Might as well disregard the NT altogether. So if that's your belief, then there's no hope man. Live, let live, and die. Is that your take on it?
If you're right, wow, what an empty life this is. If you're wrong, and all that stuff about the supernatural really did happen, then consider the implications. Better be really sure you're right.
The old "all atheist's lives must be empty" straw man and Pascal's Wager in one note.
Theo, you are wrong on both counts.
You're right OG. I'm too stupid to beat the moderator. And I'm a believer. What's your excuse?
Enlighten me HotAir. Share us your wisdom. How did all happen? What's the meaning of life? The slammers on this blog can't put up their own opinion, they just attack everyone else. Takes courage to put your ideas out there. Where's your courage? Share your thoughts? If all you have are slams and no coherent explanation of the beginning of the universe, then you're just a hater. At least I put mine out there. And I'll defend them.
Ok you guys are right. I'm braindead. I missed the helpful hints comment above. Found it now. At very least, I gave you another opportunity to bash a believer. And I was worthy of that bashing. Now, if you guys would be bold enough to formulate your theories for the beginning of all things, I would readily read it. And I won't trash you.
Let's see...
I believe their are no gods and that you don't have one bit of factual, independent or verifiable evidence to the contrary.
There is no meaning to life but "do unto others as..." is pretty good guidance and much older wisdom than that found in The Babble.
Atheists live full and fulfilling lives with no need for imaginary friends.
If one god exits (and I'm not saying one does) then it is likely that many gods exist so *you* better pick the right one or risk the wrath of the others.
HotAir, thanks for your reply. If I weren't a believer, I'd be right there with that same point of view. I respect you for standing up and saying what you believe. Really cool, and I mean that. There are far too many people out there who won't. They are afraid of being confronted or challenged.
Hot air I think u need education in atheism otherwise u r just agnostic. To be a proper atheist see Chinese Communist Party, Socialist Nationalist Party or North Korean Communist Party. Cuba is there for Western Hemisphere. KKK for religious atheism. The creeds are written study them. lol
Nii, you can place me anywhere along the unbeliever spectrum you like – no matter where you place me, I do not believe any gods exist. Period. You should not confuse atheism with political movements or parties, particularly those that may have "used and abused" atheism. To align atheism with the KKK is just silly and offensive. But, believers will say anything to discredit atheism and prop up their cult's mythological bullsh!t.
"First, people assume the Bible accurately reflects history. That is absolutely not so, and every biblical scholar recognizes it."
That's ridiculous. The truth is most Bible scholars do believe it is accurate. For example, Ken Ham, Henry Morris, John Piper, John MacArthur just to name a few
Nate, this article is written by a "former" bishop who apparently either lost his faith or never had faith. And I agree with you, we need to speak up when someone pretending to represent the faithful tries to destroy faith in the Bible as the authoritative Word of God.
The Judaeans were totlly annhilated because they broke an oath under God to Nebuchadnezzer II of Babylon and he wasn't going to side with them even if He was a foreigner. Moses' wife was black and God punished his sister for griping about it. There were about 10 female prophets in the Bible.
Egyptian, Phoenicians, and Sumerians could write but Hebrews cudn't write? Look how close these cultures lived together. Abraham lived in a town b4 he became nomadic and Moses' was a Prince of Egypt. Likewise Joseph was the Vizier of Egypt and all these people cudn't write and their servants too.
JUST THE OPPOSITE, THE HEBREWS WROTE JUST FINE IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR OTHERS TO UNMASK. HEBREW IS THE OLDEST LANGUAGE WITHOUT VOWELS THATS ALL. LETS NOT MISLEAD THE FLOCKS AS SAID IN MALACHI 2.
CoCo
The Sumerian written language beats out Hebrew by about 2000 years - and quite a few others are much older too, including some with alphabets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_written_accounts
Are you daft? You think that everyone was literate in the ancient world? Even the kings and royalty were illiterate. Especially the kings and royalty. That's why they had scribes. And for you to suggest that servants could write! Unbelievable! Writing was such a scarcity in the ancient world, that some courts and tribes used to chain their scribes to keep them from escaping. It wasn't until the Iron Age that writing and literacy became more widely practiced that an organized intellegensia of sorts started grooming and passing their craft down to others as an apprenticeship. You can't compare modern world literacy to that of the one existing at the time or nomadic cultures. You really don't comprehend, do you?
U know what happened 4000 yrs ago n do not know what happened 2000 yrs ago. Tazzle give me a break. How did u know people were chaining scribes. Make sure u r not dreaming. Science is more serious than that. A primitive culture and an advanced one have one difference. Information storage.
Besides a scribe in chains is worse than a servant but a slave. If u think urself too wise u make these mistakes. Egyptian nobles were trained to write but when u were not talented they let u go. The talented ones were kept on. Read more, learn more. Never lie to make ur point. If u don't know ask
Ask me to mention the Presidents of USA and I'll ask u to mention the Kings of the Ashanti. U ask evidence for things without asking for credibility. I trust Christians more than journalists and 'scholars' of modern times. I wud like to but watching African news on CNN shows me its wiser not to.
I do not care whether u believe me or not. I am an Anglican Lay Pastor. My fav book other than the Bible is THINK AND GROW RICH by Napoleon Hill because it made me understand why the Greatest Commandments work. We have not only 5 senses but 6. If u base ur knowledge on only 5 den u lose n thats sad.
I was/am a very worldly Christian on the outside. I listen to secular music of all types with roots reggae n ragga dancehall as my favs. I dance @ parties. I drink alcohol n dress like any avg Joe, I sleep in on Sun. If u don't understand this one Momoya how do u expect to understand the Bible?
first name he claimed. So I asked his friends n they confirmed his claim. They even said someone who behaves like I do its just not possible for me to prophesy like that. That is the day I left the religious/atheist camp and I am not coming back.
YOU SHOULD NOT DO ANYTHING OR COME BACK UNTIL YOU TELL THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE IN MALACHI 3V16, THIS IS NOT THE OLD BOOK IT PROPHESIED THE FUTURE THE PAST AND THE PRESENT THAT IS WHY ITS CALLED BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE TO REMEMBER THE PAST AND KNOW WHAT IS TO COME.
I was describing a prophetic experience I had down there b4 u issued ur Fatwah. If u are not hearing from me it is because my web connexion is bad so most of my posts get missing. besides I am using a fon. U r displaying gross ignorance of the Bible. I am a Messianic Jewish Anglican.
I think the LDS taught u too mny Bible verses without teaching u the passages. Why don't u join a Messianic or Orthodox Jewish synagogue to see whether u shud not learn new things. A lone ranger Jew with LDS background thats just too funny. I just think u absorbed enough of the Bible to discard JS.
CoCo, this reference to book of remembrance is awesome. Yes, I believe that to be true. He knows the hearts and minds of men better than we know it ourselves, all of our motivations and inward thoughts.
In Genesis, He is the seed of the woman; Exodus, the passover lamb, Leviticus, the atoning sacrifice, Numbers, the smitten rock, Deuteronomy, the Prophet Moses talked about; Joshua, the captain; Judges, the Deliverer; Ruth, the kinsman redeemer; Kings, the ruler; Nehemiah, the advocate; Job, the redeemer; Psalms, the shepherd; Proverbs, wisdom; Ecclesiastes, the goal; Song of Solomon, the groom; Prophets, the coming one; Gospels, the God-man; Acts, the risen one; Epistles, the Head of the Church; Revelation, the worthy One.
Theo7-I like ur use if the poem but the poem IS not Scripture. I am a believer but I want u to understand one thing only. True holiness comes by faith whose evidence is love. If u want to attach comments please stick to the theme which is why Scripture is accurate and did God inspire it.