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January 7th, 2012
06:52 PM ET

Nigerian state under curfew after violence against Christians

By the CNN Wire Staff

(CNN) - A northeastern Nigerian state was under a 24-hour curfew Saturday following three days of violence that left more than 30 Christians dead.

The curfew was placed in effect as fears rose that Christian youths could launch reprisal attacks, said Tomborokai Gajere, chaplain to the Adamawa state government.

On Friday, 11 men and one woman were killed in the city of Yola.

The militant Islamist group Boko Haram has claimed or been blamed for a recent spate of sectarian attacks.

On Thursday, it was reported that 17 people, all Christians, were killed while mourning the deaths of two others who were killed the day before. These attacks happened in the city of Mubi. Daniels said the official number of deaths was just 12, with four injuries.

Gajere said he personally pleaded with Christian youths in Numan, which is near Mubi, for calm amid reports that reprisal attacks were possible.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Africa • Nigeria

soundoff (96 Responses)
  1. fred

    Curious
    Gods will is not constrained because God is (I AM). You cannot constrain what is. Assuming the attributes of God are as given in the Bible everything is finished and complete, there is nothing to constrain nor could God be constrained. All that is God (I AM) appears to take place at different level than the creation. The battle is in the principalities of light and darkness.
    As to our creation God does show self restraint on both sides. “for if I could gather you as a hen gathers her chicks”, “I will not flood the entire earth again”. Although, God appears to constrain will by not bringing about the new heaven and earth where there is no more pain suffering etc, Gods will has not been constrained.
    God is not arbitrary God is. As Damian said “because God commands it”

    January 9, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • J.W

      I think that sometimes we confine God to what is said in the Bible. God does not have to be just what is in the Bible. God has the ability to change over the course of time. Maybe God has a different will for his people now than he did 3000 years ago. Things were different when the Israelites were walking through the desert, compared to what the world is like today.

      January 9, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • fred

      J.W
      Good point God is not confined by the Bible. On the other hand if God were to change with the times that would make God a function of His own creation. What we see in the Bible is simply God revealing more as people were becoming more advanced and able to see / understand God at a greater depth. Further to your point we see God different today because of the Holy Spirit and since Jesus tore down the curtain so we have direct access.

      January 9, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
  2. fred

    Curious
    Based on Genesis it seems man and God were doing ok in the Garden before touching the tree of good and evil by man. The evil was present and even in them (Eve desired wisdom like God) but, it was not part of their world. Most likely it was because they were one with God that evil was without affect. Once unity was broken they were aware of nakedness / evil was exposed. Now, God drew first blood and killed in the Garden to make a covering for man. God has not changed but man is separate from God and the awareness of evil seems to have given power to evil in man.
    Is calamity visited on evil people evil? I think it was invited by man and desired by man. Roadkill often invites a second look. God gave man a savior a perfect servant in Christ and it was man that beat Christ to a blood pulp hanging Him high on a mound. God offers purity and love that brings about the evil in man. The knowledge of good and evil is a problem for man that loses its power only in unity with God.

    January 9, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
  3. Enoch

    Nigerians go out to the streets to protest high fuel prices, but they seem to not care about the cost of Christian blood! Only living for the flesh like many CNN blogers!

    January 9, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Enoch..not human blood then..is there a difference between christain and huiman blood?

      January 9, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
  4. WOT

    When blacks kill blacks that is fine however when whites kill blacks it is holo-Hilter-ism!

    January 8, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
  5. Willie The Pimp

    ITs alwasys soemthing with these God DA$N nig gers.

    January 8, 2012 at 10:37 pm |
  6. penny

    Just goes to show NIG GERS are primitive idiots that cant behave.

    January 8, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • jespo

      very evolved of you.....troglodyte....

      January 8, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
  7. Portland tony

    Ironically,most of these religious wars are not about religion at all, but about land, greed, and power. And if you believe in Jesus at all you would understand he washed his hands of these earthly pursuits long ago.

    January 8, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
  8. cigarlover6

    Look this is what happens when these 2 violent religions are the dominant ones in any geographical area.... If either one dominates, they try to push their crap down everyone's throat. If they are in equal number and dominant, they go for each others throat. We need to get rid of these barbarians....

    January 8, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Keith

      Oh shut up! I didn't see any headlines lately in the Detroit Free Press stating how Christian mobs were descending on Dearborn and slaughtering muslims there! Why not? Because it won't happen when Christians dominate. When islam dominates, you can almost guarantee it will happen.

      January 8, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • jespo

      very christian of you Kieth, to tell someone to shut up.....tsk tsk tsk......guess you're forgetting about the humble and meek portion of your religion....again....

      January 8, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • jespo

      to cigarlover6....they just want the world to burn...

      January 8, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • Keith

      jespo, Isa 5:20 ¶ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
      You are one messed up reprobate individual.

      January 8, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • cigarlover6

      Oh Keith, you shutup. What a nice way to argue! Thus one can say, u doing web "violence", so to speak.
      The violence perpetrated by both 'slam and 'xian in world history is unparalleled. As of contemporary world, the theme is same only the methods are different. Be wary of these lunatics folks, vote out any bug g e r with any connection with the fundamentalist of these 2 religions.

      January 8, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • Keith

      I stand by my statement. Quit making ridiculous comments.

      January 9, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Keith

      Besides there cigarlover, are you going to be the getting rid of people? Or are you going to be spineless and have someone else do it? Nazi jerk.

      January 9, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
  9. Portland tony

    It's the same old story. The Sunni's in the north are trying to establish an Islamic state based upon Shari'a law and are rebelling against the central government. The. South made up of Christians, Shia, other religious groups happen to be in the way. The Nigerian army carries out raids in the north burning Sunni mosques and so it goes back and forth. The Boko Harem is the Sunni army avenging so called raids by the south.

    January 8, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  10. Rainer Braendlein

    Isn't it outrageous that the pope acknowledges Islam as a legitimate religion, which can save people.

    In fact and in contrast to the pope's opinion Islam is the anti-faith. Islam was founded, in order to destroy everting, which is Christian. The whole Islam can be summarized in one sentence: "Don't ascribe partners to Allah!" This, of course, mainly means: Don't believe that Jesus Christ is God's eternal Son and a member of the Holy Trinity.

    The pope is indeed the Antichrist. He acknowledges a religion (the Islam), whose only tenet is it to destroy Christianity.

    Dear Nigerian Catholics,

    forsake the pope and become Protestants.

    The pope is a traitor of Christianity.

    You are welcome in God's house.

    The pope is a traitor, proof is this passage of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

    January 8, 2012 at 10:17 am |
  11. Ackim Silungwe

    You see how stuped religion could be i cant imagin my self killing my brother over an imported faith,before Christian and Islam was imported to Africa we still had life and why should this devide us.

    January 8, 2012 at 9:51 am |
  12. Rainer Braendlein

    A passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is an offical docu-ment of doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church:

    Paragraph 841: The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

    The pope acknowledges people (the Muslims), which murder members of his own church, as true believers, for that the passage above is a clear proof.

    Conclusion: The "God", which is adored by the pope and by the Muslims, is not Jesus Christ, but Satan.

    January 8, 2012 at 9:45 am |
  13. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    January 8, 2012 at 7:40 am |
    • Taiping

      Yes, it takes your time and wastes it. That's your goal, is it? Wasting time mumbling instead of actually helping people?

      January 8, 2012 at 8:08 am |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Do you build the house without consulting the architect?

      January 8, 2012 at 8:14 am |
  14. Keith

    Send them some AK's and lots of ammo in the next missions package. Allow them to defend themselves. They don't need to stand by and be slaughtered by these muslims.

    January 7, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      Keith,
      Excellent solution. Welll thought out.

      January 7, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • jespo

      indeed...

      January 7, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Keith

      Let's say the next people to be murdered over there were going to be family members of yours, Central S. What's your bright idea?

      January 7, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Answer

      @Keith

      Using logic as your guide you can answer that on your own. It would follow along like this: "If my family is educated about the area they want to travel in or live in – then it would be wise to move away /from it."

      Any family member who volunteers themselves to living in a perpetual death and violent area is none too wise but will be sorely missed or not. For being stupid. That is the value of education and the insight to pay heed to dangers present in the world.

      What you have proposed is a relative scenario based on threats and potential harm to sway people from a point of discussion. It is absolutely the lowest of types of comments. Spread fear and stupidity. That is you.

      January 7, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Keith

      Answer, Bad answer. I've lived in the same area all of my life. If radical islam(or anyone else for that matter) shows up and tries kill me or my family they will be facing some .30 caliber boat-tail hollow points being pushed at 3000+ fps. That's MY answer. Your's is obviously to tuck tail and run, or worse convert. Well, what if there is no safe place to go? Or didn't that occur to you as you sit in the safety of your abode?

      January 7, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • Answer

      "Your's is obviously to tuck tail and run, or worse convert. Well, what if there is no safe place to go? Or didn't that occur to you as you sit in the safety of your abode?"

      Throwing your ridiculous presumptions on others around I see. Just the kind of moron that does this kind of stuff over the internet. You morons really crack me up.

      January 7, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Keith

      I will say this, if you don't like the violence committed in the name of "religion", you ain't seen nothin' yet. The good news is that Jesus will come back to put a stop to it.

      January 7, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • jespo

      the answer is moot....one believes they're going to a better place the other believes they need to get to a better place...both believed they are being cared for and watched over....they are religious and will not listen to fact or reason...let them die together...it's what they want in their hearts....in other words, there is no answer, they simply won't listen.

      January 7, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      If it were me, I would grab my guitar and play some old Beatles songs. Smoke some w.e.e.d and have s.e.x with tthe stinkies. that always seems to work. Also I would prepare some eggs.

      January 7, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Answer

      "Jesus will come back to put a stop to it."

      LOL

      Make this your mission in life? To tell this absurd one liner til you die and say "why has he abandoned us?"
      I'll continue my life and laugh at you altar boys. 🙂

      January 7, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
    • evolvedDNA

      Keith. i hate to see anyone get slaughtered..but it has been mentioned many times that religions do not play nice together and while absolutely vile these types of deaths are a natural consequence of an irrational thought process. The only true solution is to have everyone think of each other as human beings, not as Christian or Muslim or Jew or Mormon etc... Your comments about Muslims, whose own religion is one of violence and hatred, cannot be a road to peace either... see the problem...Jesus and god were always a dangerous ideas. You see why freethinkers are concerned.

      January 8, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Keith

      You said: "I will say this, if you don't like the violence committed in the name of "religion", you ain't seen nothin' yet. The good news is that Jesus will come back to put a stop to it."

      Jesus is a myth. We will have to figure out some other way to get along, besides magic.

      Cheers!

      January 8, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • Keith

      Answer, My wife's uncle and his son work for a big oil company which sent them to Nigeria a couple of years ago. When they got to the airport, they were handed guns and told "you might need these". Sure enough, her uncle shot and killed one guy who was attacking his bodyguard. His son shot and killed two others. They were trying to kidnap Westerners. So did it ever occur to you that this islamic hell-hole might not be safe? They left the damn place even it meant losing their jobs. The locals, however, are stuck there. You must think the world is some pie in the sky utopia. It is not.

      January 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
  15. Answer

    Year 2012 predictions coming true.

    Religious fools killing and hating as usual.

    January 7, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      What is unusual about that and what makes 2012 special (please don't go Mayan Calendar on me)? Religions are evil and will continue to be. No surprises. Only Atheists, Agnostics and the practices of Mysticism dwell in the glory of the universe and the Holy One. Welcome to Hell Believers.

      January 7, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • Answer

      @Central

      Nothing unusual. Just naming the predictions that I voiced on the first of this year. 🙂

      January 7, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      I see.

      January 7, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
  16. UN

    Hope the violence against the Christians will stop and these criminals be brought to justice.

    January 7, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      Kill the bad guys.

      January 7, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • jespo

      violence is never the answer, and yes it shoud end...I also hope the Lords Resistance Army in the Congo, a Christian Army, stops mur-dering and ra-ping women, children, and yes babies, in order to purge their lives of 'others'....no word from Rome yet on this one...why?......maybe they're just not that upset about it....

      January 7, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      Christians love killing. KILL KILL KILL

      January 7, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • jespo

      they all do....being fanatical about one's religion always becomes being religious in one's fanatacism...that'swhen the atrocities start happening...

      January 7, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
  17. The Central Scrutinizer

    More Bible Fun!

    Abraham needed God's help to father Isaac when he was 100 years old
    (Gen.21:1-2, Rom.4:19, Heb.11:12). But here, when he is even older, he
    manages to have six more children without any help from God. 25:2

    Abraham lived to be 175 years old. 25:7

    Ishmael lived 137 years. 25:17

    Isaac's wife (Rebekah), like his mother (Sarah), was also barren. 25:21

    Jacob names Bethel for the first time 28:19, before meeting Rachel.
    Later in 35:15, just before Rachel dies, he names Bethel again. (I guess
    the name didn't take the first time.)
    Jacob goes in unto Leah by mistake. 29:23, 25
    "And Jacob went in unto her. And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a
    son." (These arrangements never seem to produce daughters.) 30:4

    Leah, not to be outdone, gives Jacob her maid (Zilpah) "to wife." And
    Zilpah "bare Jacob a son." 30:9

    Rachel trades her husband's favors for some mandrakes. And so, when
    Jacob cam home, Leah said: "Thou must come in unto me, for surely I have
    hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night."
    Presumably God, by telling us this edifying story, is teaching us
    something about s.e.xual ethics. 30:15-16

    And finally, "God remembered Rachel ... and opened her womb. And she
    conceived and bare a son [surprise, surprise]." 30:22

    Laban learns "by experience" that God has blessed him for Jacob's sake.
    "By experience" means "by divination", at least that is how most other
    versions translate this verse. 30:27

    God renames Jacob for the first time (See 35:10 for the first renaming).
    God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible
    continues to call him Jacob anyway. And even God himself calls him Jacob
    in 46:2. 30:28

    Jacob displays his (and God's) knowledge of biology by having goats
    copulate while looking at streaked rods. The result is streaked baby
    goats. 30:37-39

    Jacob wrestles with god and wins. God changes Jacob's name to Israel to
    signify that he wrestled with God and "prevailed." 32:24-30

    Isaac lives to be 180. 35:28

    Chapter 36 presents another boring genealogy that we are told to avoid
    in 1 Tim.1:4 and T.it.3:9 ("Avoid foolish questions and genealogies.")
    36:1-43

    January 7, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Thanks for reminding Christians of our heritage that is forever in our hearts.

      I S R A E L

      Amen.

      Smile.

      January 7, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      You are welcome HS. God knows you don't know anything about your religion.

      January 7, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Central, a pervert is going to tell a Christian about Jesus' truth.

      Get over yourself.

      Amen.

      January 7, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • The Central Scrutinizer

      Hmmmm, a pervert......well that is not me, so who are you referring to? The Priests?

      January 7, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • jespo

      perversion is in every other chapter of the good book.....par for the course when one man tells another how to live...

      January 7, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Very rarely does so much disinformation come to light in one place. Clearly this poster has no clue as to what is being said and why in the Holy Bible.

      January 8, 2012 at 7:39 am |
  18. David Johnson

    I think it would be smart on the Christian's part, to either move or to convert. With conversion making the most sense. What does it matter which make believe god you worship? Any god will give you that warm and fuzzy feeling, comfort you in time of trouble and you can count on the god to be there when you die. So, let's not get our undies in a knot. Choose a god that won't get you shot, in the place you live... and live.

    Cheers!

    January 7, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      "Hear O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!"

      Deuteronomy 6:4

      "Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord: and besides Me there is no savior."

      Isaiah 43:10-11

      Isaiah 44: 6-8, 24; 45:5-10, 18, 21-22

      Amen.

      January 7, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • jespo

      "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalm 82....where the yahweh god is speaking to the other gods at the council of the god El...

      January 7, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • Keith

      Dan 3:17 If it be [so], our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver [us] out of thine hand, O king.

      Dan 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
      Up yours David Johnson!

      January 7, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • jespo

      If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 ........what a wonderful religion you've chosen Kieth...hope you live alone, or have the stomach to fulfill your god's demands....

      January 7, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • Keith

      jespo, Do you think that Jesus will "tolerate" other religions when he comes back to set up His millenial kingdom?

      January 7, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • jespo

      hmmnn...jesus....right...mithra, krishna, jesus....actually, joshua, not jesus, bad translation that one....there is no god, no kingdom, no second coming for there wasnt a first, just re-written stories chosen by men who wished power of the weak-minded...it's still working sad to say....save yourself, read something else, something fun and happy....

      January 7, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Keith

      jespo, Well I guess we'll just have to wait an see won't we?

      January 7, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • jespo

      I would have thought you'd know by your strong faith by now, and not have to wait...hhmmnn.....or was that a veiled secret hope that I find out at the end of my days in a myriad of horrible little eternal ways...neverthemind, it doesn't matter because it's simply not real..now be a good chap and let the rest of the world know...you wait, I'll be living....

      January 7, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • Keith

      David Johnson, I almost think this isn't the real David Johnson because even he's smart enough to realize that in islam-if there aren't any Christians, Jews, Hindu's, etc around-they kill each other, ie sunni/shia.

      January 8, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • Keith

      jespo, are you saying I'm weak minded simply because I don't believe the way you do. If your mind is "strong", I'd prefer weakness anyday.

      January 8, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • jespo

      So it is written....so it shall be done....Yes, anyone who believes in following: rules set forth almost 2000 yrs ago, rules which inhibit life itself, for to grow and evolve is to truly live; to pay hommage to men they don't know simply because they are wearing robes, men who are allowed to be around your children, alone; to hold dear a faith which is divisive, violent, incongruent with today's world, denegrative of women; to cherry pick passages from a book as proof of something which bolsters your ideas while ignoring other passages which depict the opposite, or to coyishly utter nonsense about the reality of the horror, filth, and disgusting notions set down in said book as simply 'god's way'; to profess universal love for all manking while wishing harm to unbelievers; for these reasons and more i say unto you, YES, you are weak minded, and all who beleive in such nonsesne are weak minded. Your weak minds have kept this world stagnant, its people suffering needlessly due to the wars that rage over their heads in the name of your gods, your precious faith a hindrance to personal and societal growth, the cause of much woe and anguish. You'r econsumed by an idea, a bad idea, and have forgotten yourselves.....weak....weak....weak......your religions will d-ie, they all do, just not fast enough....

      January 8, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      jespo, you babbled "So it is written....so it shall be done....Yes, anyone who believes in following: rules set forth almost 2000 yrs ago, rules which inhibit life itself, for to grow and evolve is to truly live; to pay hommage to men they don't know simply because they are wearing robes, men who are allowed to be around your children, alone; to hold dear a faith which is divisive, violent, incongruent with today's world, denegrative of women; to cherry pick passages from a book as proof of something which bolsters your ideas while ignoring other passages which depict the opposite, or to coyishly utter nonsense about the reality of the horror, filth, and disgusting notions set down in said book as simply 'god's way'; to profess universal love for all manking while wishing harm to unbelievers; for these reasons and more i say unto you, YES, you are weak minded, and all who beleive in such nonsesne are weak minded. Your weak minds have kept this world stagnant, its people suffering needlessly due to the wars that rage over their heads in the name of your gods, your precious faith a hindrance to personal and societal growth, the cause of much woe and anguish. You'r econsumed by an idea, a bad idea, and have forgotten yourselves.....weak....weak....weak......your religions will d-ie, they all do, just not fast enough...."

      Answer: Jesus' spiritual truth teaches righteous living. That, which none of you non-believers practice. You may have been taught the basics and believe that's all you need to conduct yourselves righteously in life, yet, when tested, all of you will take the unrighteous paths due to being easy and convenient at the time. You consider this to be the insightful and intelligent way to get through a difficult situation and care less who has to take up the slack in your wake.

      As for cherry picking passages. That belongs to you non-believers to win a debate for which you know absolutely nothing about in the first place. All you know is that you want to knock out Jesus' teachings, choose which ones to keep and throw the rest out. Tune in, Jesus teaches about life (all of it) and the hereafter. You haven't a clue that Jesus teaches subject, article and outcome. Righteous outcome to live a courageous life. Unrighteous outcome to live an unrighteous life. You're so busy complaining about scriptures taken out of context, you never learned how to cross reference said scriptures with other teachings of Jesus, never mind reading all the surrounding scriptures you complain about. If it weren't for true Christians explaining scriptures that you've complained about and ignored after explanations were given, you'd still be as ignorant about His teachings as you were before posting.

      Amen.

      January 9, 2012 at 6:49 am |
    • HeavenSent

      jespo, are you posting out of context again? For what reason? "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalm 82....where the yahweh god is speaking to the other gods at the council of the god El...”

      Answer: Read all of Psalms 82.

      Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

      Psalms 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

      Psalms 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

      Psalms 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.

      Psalms 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

      Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.

      Psalms 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

      Psalms 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

      After you read this know this scripture too ...

      Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ.

      Revelation 1:4-5

      Amen.

      January 9, 2012 at 7:03 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Keith

      If you don't like your neighborhood... move. I think it stupid to fight over fairy tales. Allah, Krishna, Jesus and any I've missed, are figments of the human imagination. No more real than Santa or the Easter Bunny. Why are they dying for a lie? It is their choice.

      A great man who just passed away, was fond of pronouncing: "Religion poisons everything." – C. Hitchens. A true prophet!

      Cheers!

      January 9, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • fred

      The Holy Spirt is what guides believers to all truth and resides within the spirt / soul / heart / temple of the believer. Jesus said I must go to the Father so the Holy Spirit can come to be with you. Jesus was the full reflection of the Glory of God in man and came to finish the work of salvation then returned to the right hand of God i.e. the seat of power. The gospel of John says Jesus was in the beginning and came to live with us as fully man and fully God. Jesus said as to the end of days only the Father knows the exact time. All this leads me to say yes they are the forces of change in Gods creation.

      January 10, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
  19. Genesis 4:10

    The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.

    January 7, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Genesis 4:10

      You quoted: "The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground."

      Hmmm... The oceans of human blood cries out to me from the ground. Courtesy of the Christian god.

      It is said: "By your fruit you will be known."

      Let's look at your god's "fruit".

      God directly or at His insistence, murdered men, women and children including babies. This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God killed every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah and his family, because man was wicked. Afterwards, He decides He won't kill everything again, because man's heart is evil from his youth. This isn't evil? Is this moral? An all knowing god didn't know this BEFORE He murdered everyone on the planet? OOOooopsie!

      God had a man believe he was going to sacrifice his son to Him. Do you know how traumatic that would be for a father and his son?
      If you had the power would you do this? Would you be so insecure? This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      There was a man who loved God. God made a bet with Satan that even if the man were tortured, his Possessions taken, and his children killed, he would still love God and never curse Him. God won the bet.
      Would you do that? Would you kill a man's children for a bet? This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God sent a bear to kill a group of children, because they had teased one of His prophets.
      Did the children deserve to die, because they teased a bald man? This isn't evil? Is this moral? Is this a just god?

      God allowed a man to sacrifice his daughter to Him, for giving the man a victory in battle. Human sacrifice! This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God killed the innocent babies of Egypt. The 10th plague in Egypt involved the murder of every first born of the Egyptians. Only an insane monster would kill children.

      Jesus / God says he also will kill children in Revelation 2:23?

      God created a place He can send people to be burned for all eternity. Could an all benevolent god construct such a place of misery?

      If a puppy wet on the floor, would you hold it over a burner? Even for a second? I couldn't do that. Not to a puppy. Certainly not to a human. I am more moral than the Christian god.

      I call Jesus, Himself as a witness!

      Jesus had this to say:

      Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

      Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

      1. A god who is not evil, can't do evil things!
      This is established, by Jesus' testimony.

      2. The Christian god is guilty of horrid crimes against humans
      Evidenced by the atrocities recorded in the bible and the Christian god's own admission:

      Isaiah 45:7, KJV says the Christian god is responsible for at least some evil: "..I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

      3. Therefore, god is evil. He bears bad fruit.

      If you whine that I am taking these examples out of context, then I invite you to read the examples of god's behavior again. Tell me in what reality or under what circ_umstances, these actions would not be evil? Or the doer of the deeds not vile?

      Cheers!

      January 9, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • DamianKnight

      @David,

      Your issue is, you are ascribing HUMAN motivations and morality to something that is not human. Would you say, "That lion is cruel and wicked because it killed a hyena?" No. Because a lion, is not a human.

      You state: "Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

      1. A god who is not evil, can't do evil things!
      This is established, by Jesus' testimony.

      2. The Christian god is guilty of horrid crimes against humans
      Evidenced by the atrocities recorded in the bible and the Christian god's own admission:

      Isaiah 45:7, KJV says the Christian god is responsible for at least some evil: "..I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

      3. Therefore, god is evil. He bears bad fruit."

      Ok, first off, we need a definition of evil. Whose definition are we using? Man's? Society's? Well those definitions seem to change. 60 years ago, it was "evil" for a black man to marry a white woman, and vice versa.

      Second, even if we could come to a solid definition of evil, who are you to judge what is evil from a being that is so far beyond your comprehension? Would you stand trial to a jury of ants as to your behavior? Of course not! They have no perspective on you.

      Third, your quote from Isaiah, is the KVJ version...a version written four hundred years ago. You may have noticed that English changes QUITE a bit, even from decade to decade. It's why I recommend you stop messing with the King James' Version, unless it's for academic purposes. The NIV is the better version for those trying to understand God's character because it is written in the English of today.

      Here is the same passage out of the NIV "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." Ah-ha! We now see what was intended by the passage. The word in modern English is not "evil", it's "disaster." And we know that to be true, because God, as you pointed out, the disasters brought on by not following His word and obeying Him.

      You might do better if you actually sought to find out what was meant by the passages, taken in context, rather than trying to justify your own beliefs.

      January 9, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • fred

      David Johnson
      The bad fruit is all around you David. The Jesus says a mans mouth reveals the heart. You never cease to amaze me how you write this stuff yet fail to see how the evil comes out of you. You read the Bible with a heart that wants to uncover a murderous God. You prove Jesus right every day as Jesus said seek and you shall find. Well you have found the real David.

      January 9, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Curious

      This is interesting. As a preliminary to heading off into the Euthyphro dilemma, who does get to say what is evil and what is good? Also, is calamity visited upon evil people evil?

      January 9, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • DamianKnight

      @David,

      What's also amusing is, everything I just said to you, the answer to your "analysis" (I use this term rather loosely) is further down in the same chapter.

      Isaiah 45: 9 – 12: "Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
      those who are nothing but potsherds
      among the potsherds on the ground.
      Does the clay say to the potter,
      ‘What are you making?’
      Does your work say,
      ‘The potter has no hands’?
      Woe to the one who says to a father,
      ‘What have you begotten?’
      or to a mother,
      ‘What have you brought to birth?’

      “This is what the LORD says—
      the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
      Concerning things to come,
      do you question me about my children,
      or give me orders about the work of my hands?
      It is I who made the earth
      and created mankind on it.
      My own hands stretched out the heavens;
      I marshaled their starry hosts."

      January 9, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • fred

      Curious

      Based on Genesis it seems man and God were doing ok in the Garden before touching the tree of good and evil by man. The evil was present and even in them (Eve desired wisdom like God) but, it was not part of their world. Most likely it was because they were one with God that evil was without affect. Once unity was broken they were aware of nakedness / evil was exposed. Now, God drew first blood and killed in the Garden to make a covering for man. God has not changed but man is separate from God and the awareness of evil seems to have given power to evil in man.
      Is calamity visited on evil people evil? I think it was invited by man and desired by man. Roadkill often invites a second look. God gave man a savior a perfect servant in Christ and it was man that beat Christ to a blood pulp hanging Him high on a mound. God offers purity and love that brings about the evil in man. The knowledge of good and evil is a problem for man that loses its power only in unity with God.

      January 9, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • Curious

      Hmmm... David is no longer with us.

      fred and Damian – The second question actually refers to Isaiah 45:7. The Hebrew word "rah" is translated in several ways. In the KJV it is "evil", in the NIV it is "disaster". I chose "calamity". The verse does say that God creates evil if we identify the word "rah", as used in it, with evil. In what context are bad things like "rah" not evil? Is it sufficient that they are brought about against evil people? If so, such actions by God may not be evil.

      January 9, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Curious,

      Interesting points. I still contend, what definition of "evil" are we using? A human definition is subjective and is largely based on culture and personal experience.

      If we postulate that the God of Abraham exists, then what is evil? I would theorize that "evil" would be acting in contradiction to God's Will. Therefore, the only way for God to commit evil acts, would be for Him to act outside His Will (which seems rather absurd). All of those points that David mentioned were God's Will, because God did them. Therefore, they were not evil.

      Where we get into problems is that we, as humans, do not see things through God's eyes. Our perspective is limited, similar to looking at a car accident through a telescope. Can we see the vehicles collided? Sure. But can we see that one of them ran a red light? No. All we can say is, "The vehicles collided!" but we don't see the mitigating factors in between, nor do we see the results of it.

      January 9, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
    • Curious

      Hi DamianKnight-

      Here is a statement of the Euthyrpho dlemma: "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" As I mentioned, I think this is where David takes us. I think you've landed us on the "second horn" of the dilemma which, restated, would be "it is good because it is God's will." One of the problems with this: if we want good to be non-arbitrary, then God's will must be constrained in some way. What constrains God's will?

      January 9, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • fred

      What is good and evil? I am not much of a philosopher so need to keep it simple. Since I find truth in the Bible that is where I go. Jesus said to leave the tares and the wheat then at the harvest God will separate the goats from the sheep. His further instructions were that we are in a poor position to judge so don’t judge. This seems to apply towards our judgments about others where as we as individuals know good from evil. The Bible is clear in that after God created he said it is very good and rested. Good brings rest and life eternal whereas evil brings death and for some eternal torment. Our God carries out a righteous judgment against evil as justice demands. Perhaps the best thing to do is simply obey and trust God as truth will prevail. This brings us to the position we were in the very beginning. In the Garden in the presence of good and evil without touching that knowledge of what is good and evil

      January 9, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Curious –

      I think I'm missing your point. In your question, you are correct. I believe the second to be correct. Things are "morally good" because God commands it.

      You asked, "If we want good to be non-arbitrary..." Does it matter what we want? A rock is a rock, no matter how much I want it to be an airplane. In God's terms of morality, it is definitive, regardless of our desires. Further, it is stated that man's nature is in direct opposition to the will of God. Therefore, one can say, a man's desires are evil, as pointed by my definition of anything contrary to God's Will.

      January 9, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • fred

      Curious

      Gods will is not constrained because God is (I AM). You cannot constrain what is. Assuming the attributes of God are as given in the Bible everything is finished and complete, there is nothing to constrain nor could God be constrained. All that is God (I AM) appears to take place at different level than the creation. The battle is in the principalities of light and darkness.
      As to our creation God does show self restraint on both sides. “for if I could gather you as a hen gathers her chicks”, “I will not flood the entire earth again”. Although, God appears to constrain will by not bringing about the new heaven and earth where there is no more pain suffering etc, Gods will has not been constrained.
      God is not arbitrary God is. As Damian said “because God commands it”

      January 9, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • Curious

      DamianKnight-

      Does it matter what we want? I suppose not, but if we are to be in a position to choose what is good we need some standard we can know. If God's will is mutable, or even capricious, how do we proceed if we want to align ourselves with God's will?

      January 9, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • Curious

      fred-

      I think you are on to something in your statement that "God is". That may mean that God is at once unconstrained and unchanging. That God is unchanging should deal with the arbitrariness of God's will. But if God is unchanging, how can God act? Doesn't action imply a change in state for both God and the object of his action?

      January 9, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      God tells us what the rules are, what He expects of us. That doesn't change. I don't think "capricious" is a good word to describe God's Will, considering Hebrews 13:8 tells us that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. There are only two things we need to do to be in God's Will. Luke 10:27-28.

      January 9, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Curious

      He answered: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

      Good choice.

      January 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • fred

      Curious
      Gods attributes reflect perfect will. You cannot change what is perfect for something better. We enter into Gods perfection through Christ. Chirst is the only way because Christ always was with God in the Beginning. An action or force upon the creation does not require a change in state for the creator.

      January 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      I agree with Fred. In the literal, taking an action does imply making a change. But that's not what is meant. God's Will is perfect, He has a plan (Jeremiah 29:11) and it is perfect. So His actions are towards that perfect plan. We are the only variable. And if we act outside of His Will, that becomes sin. Sin is what separates us from God.

      God is standing still as far as His morality. He has expectations. This is what we often hear of God being referred to as a rock, a tower or a refuge. Because it's stationary, strong, unmoving and unyielding.

      January 9, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • Curious

      fred and Damian-

      It is interesting that when you speak of God's nature or will, he is one and unchanging. When it comes to God's actions, are these brought about by the persons of God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

      January 10, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • fred

      Curious

      The Holy Spirt is what guides believers to all truth and resides within the spirt / soul / heart / temple of the believer. Jesus said I must go to the Father so the Holy Spirit can come to be with you. Jesus was the full reflection of the Glory of God in man and came to finish the work of salvation then returned to the right hand of God i.e. the seat of power. The gospel of John says Jesus was in the beginning and came to live with us as fully man and fully God. Jesus said as to the end of days only the Father knows the exact time. All this leads me to say yes they are the forces of change in Gods creation.
      As to the form of God who walked with Enoch, Moses or even Adam some tell me it was Jesus but, I find nothing in the Bible that gives me assurance of that so I just leave it be pending some new revelation.

      January 10, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
  20. JohnR

    Friggin' disgusting.

    January 7, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.