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My take: Why Christians are criticizing my Christian marriage and sex book
January 24th, 2012
12:01 AM ET

My take: Why Christians are criticizing my Christian marriage and sex book

Editor’s note: Mark Driscoll is founding pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington.

By Mark Driscoll, Special to CNN

You try to write a book on marriage and sex with your wife and next thing you know there are a lot of ants crashing your picnic.

My wife, Grace, and I recently published "Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, & Life Together," which quickly became a No. 1 New York Times best-seller.

In it, we’re brutally honest about our past struggles, share the lessons we learned along the way and talk frankly about sex. Criticism has ensued.

If you wish to find that criticism, just do a Google search. You’ll find plenty. My intent here is not to name names and pick a fight with my critics, but to provide context on why there is criticism.

We knew before we wrote the book that we’d catch a lot of flak, especially on the chapters dealing with sex. We also knew the criticism would come from every direction, as some people would think we went too far and others would think we didn’t go far enough.

But we wrote it anyway. Why? Simply put, we want to help marriages — and single people aspiring to marry — and we wanted to do so in a way that is practical, biblical and applicable to the reality of today’s culture.

If the book accomplishes that, we’ll take the criticism in exchange for helping people. We don’t think our book is perfect and we tell folks upfront (literally in the preface) to take what is helpful and leave the rest.

The book identifies three ways people tend to view sex: as gross, as a god and as a gift.

Sex as gross

Some people are very uncomfortable talking about sex, even with their spouses.

Many Christians, because of upbringing and past church experiences, view sex as gross and something that should not be talked about in public.

Unfortunately, this view is pervasive in the church. Many couples have honest questions about sex and various sexual acts but struggle to find a pastor willing to teach on these topics.

With nowhere else to turn, these couples find wrong and damaging answers in magazines, television, movies, porn and more.

The practical result is that couples divorce their sex from their spirituality, talking to their pastors about “spiritual” issues and ordering their love life around advice from “secular” sources.

Next time you’re in line at the grocery store, read the headlines on the women’s magazines that are shouting at little kids standing in line with their parents. Our culture has made the wrong answers about sex far easier to find than the church has made the right answers to find.

Those who view sex as gross criticize our book because we speak too openly and frankly about sex for their taste. The accusation is that the private counsel that pastors give to people in the church isn’t suitable to give in a public context.

But many critics tend to want to debate nuances of theology rather than engage head-on the practical realities that many people are facing.

I’ve written systematic theology books with hundreds of footnotes. "Real Marriage" is not that kind of book. It’s a practical book rooted in the Bible.

We call everything a sin that the Bible does and we give directives for married couples to use wisdom and conscience in discussing what they do and do not want to do sexually on matters to which the Bible doesn’t speak.

Because we believe the Bible is God’s perfect and sufficient word, we don’t want to add to it what we want or the archconservative Christian culture wants.

Conversely, we don’t want to remove anything from it just because some people find it uncomfortable.

People in our churches are dealing with the issues discussed in "Real Marriage," and to pretend these aren’t real issues and to avoid talking about them is akin to closing your eyes and declaring that you don’t see the need we are serving. If ministry leaders don’t address these issues in some way, we’re religious cowards who do a disservice to our church.

Before we get to the trickiest sexual questions, based upon what many people are already doing, our book deals with marriage in the context of friendship, men’s and women’s roles and responsibilities and how to deal with sin so that marriage gets better rather than bitter.

When we do get around to evaluating sex acts, we ask three simple questions, based upon 1 Corinthians 6:12 in the Bible: 1. Is it lawful? 2. Is it helpful? 3. Is it enslaving?

Each of these questions leaves room for couples to be grownups and to determine what works for them sexually by allowing them to examine their hearts and the scriptures – and to act according to their consciences on whether they wish to participate in sexual activities that the Bible neither forbids nor condones.

While it may be fun for bloggers and critics to discuss these things, our hope was that couples would instead be the ones having these conversations to build their marriages in ways that don’t pressure, abuse or use one another.

Sex as a god

There are some who think about almost nothing else but sex, treating it as a kind of god. This can happen in the form of addiction to sex or porn, severe promiscuity, adultery or participating in various sexual acts that the Bible speaks against, making personal preference and desire more important than what God says about sex.

This view of sex is pervasive, as many go to extraordinary lengths to fulfill their sexual desires, even when it’s not good for them physically, spiritually, mentally or emotionally.

Even worse, this view causes some to do unspeakable acts against others in the form of rape, assault, marital sexual assault, pedophilia, sex trafficking and more – making literal human sacrifices to their god of sex.

Those who view sex as a god criticize our book because it doesn’t go far enough for them. Because we teach that the Bible does call some sex acts sin, such as pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, adultery and more, we are criticized for being judgmental, prudish, antiquated and fundamentalist.

We understand that not everyone will believe what we believe, but as Christians who view the Bible as our highest authority in life, we don’t write the mail, we simply deliver it.

In the end, for conservatives we’re too liberal, and for liberals we’re too conservative. We can’t win.

Thankfully, we’re not concerned with winning. We’re concerned with helping others build healthy, happy and holy, God-glorifying marriages.

Sex as a gift

What Grace and I have found in nearly 20 years of marriage and more than 15 years of ministry is that both the church and culture often get sex wrong.

So we went back to the scriptures to see what they have to say.

The Bible gives us a different way to think of sex. Instead of seeing it as gross or slavishly worshiping it as a god, the Bible teaches that sex is a powerful and exhilarating gift that God gives to married couples.

It is also a deeply spiritual act, bringing together a husband and a wife to be one flesh (Genesis 2:24), binding them together on a spiritual, mental, emotional, physical and neurological level.

As a deeply spiritual act, it’s important for people to understand what the Bible teaches (and doesn’t teach) about sex, to be able to speak openly and honestly with their ministry leaders regarding sex, and to find solid, biblical teaching on sex.

God has a plan for sex: that it is to be enjoyed between one man and one woman in the context of marriage. This means that there are certain types of sex acts that abuse and misuse the good gift of sex that God gave, and that we are to honor God with our bodies by living our sexual lives in a way that glorifies him and honors the scriptures.

In our book, we blow up some common misconceptions about sex (like that the Bible prohibits stripteases or oral sex). We help people understand that it’s God’s intent that we steward and enjoy the gift of sex, like every gift he gives, in such a way that is glorious to him, good for our marriages and a lot of fun.

It is our prayer that you and your spouse would move past any misconceptions of how you’ve seen sex and understand it to be a gift from God. A gift to be stewarded. A gift to be guarded. A gift to be enjoyed. And a gift to be shared together for God’s glory and your good as friends.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Driscoll.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Opinion • Sex

soundoff (750 Responses)
  1. Albanius Tacitus Seneca

    Oh you of little faith. God is Love. How can we describe intangible quality beyond what we feel? Are not words the products of our minds and yet how often these words have changed and are changed and forgotten. Does this mean what move them does not exist? You forget that in the dark recesses of the mind there exists a fear that you cannot explain, its a fear that we all have and yet you forgo its insight and instead muddle its virtue with arrogance. You attempt to prove and yet proof is just a word of many meanings but who's foundation lies beyond our comprehension in the unexplainable. We cannot even understand why we doubt or believe and yet we do, and yet we seek beyond all reason to prove that what comes from our minds is true without ever understanding the nature of truth. Serve God. Love others. Do not forget about what exists beyond the confines of our understanding. It is what has allowed you to be.

    January 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Randolph Smith

      If you can prove that God is Love, I can prove that God is Hate. Saying X is Y does not make it so.

      January 29, 2012 at 2:55 am |
  2. That

    http://thelordsslave.blogspot.com/

    January 27, 2012 at 11:55 am |
  3. 7

    Its interesting the different dynamic of people responding to this article on a very pro liberal/democratic website From Bible believing Christians to "Christians" to "Atheists..All the "Atheists" and "Scientists" are offended deeply offended..be mad all you want i could care less if i offend anyone or not afterall the atheists get to say their peace and same with the all knowing scientists who claim that darwin was right-side note- he became a christian a few short years after he made those ridiculous claims- anyway you people can say and believe and choose whatever you want..in the end when this world falls even more apart and things start happening that get 150 times worse which it will and are starting to happen now and after the rapture takes place maybe some of the too good to believe theres a god people will actually get it. Ive always wondered how if evolution took place all those "billions" of years ago why did it randomly stop? Wheres the proof that it even occurred or even happened? I have yet to meet someone who evolved randomly/magically from a single cell organism and turned to a human being..granted their story would be pretty cool to hear but i would throw all of Americas debt that evolution is a wrong and its a joke..Seriously though something thats in motion stays in motion. Scientists know this much..so if evolution did happen that would mean it would be in motion and all those different transformations would take place but even after hitting the human it would still have to evolve..yeah my point exactly. Please dont waste your time with your phd explanations and crap either. As for the non God believers there is a God, He is your creator not some single celled organism. The thing is Jesus is the Son of God who is the salvation for all humans. Bottom line is this- Most people wouldnt give their life for their friends..He gave His life for strangers. Theres prophecies that were fulfilled, and Yes Jesus was a true man, a Human being, flesh and bone. There was a King David, King Solomon, just as you are alive today they were back then..theres more proof that Jesus lived than there is Nero who was an emperor of Rome did. There is one difference between all the other gods in this corrupt world..all the other gods are either man made or fake. The Hebrews, Jewish God is not fake or man made. Theres evidence daily that God exists! One thing..this is pretty clear..all those countries that hate Israel why is they have not destroyed them yet? It couldnt be bc Israel is Gods chosen people..or maybe it is. People will believe and think what they want to but when the time comes and your standing in front of God you will have no excuse for why you didnt believe in Him or His son Jesus. and Phil Prayer does work..doubt it if you want to but it does work effectively and powerfully. I hate religion and i think its ruining America and the world right now. With God your not forced to do anything..your not brainwashed or forced to abide by "religious doctrine". Its simple and easy Jesus Gods son came to the earth performed many miracles, healings and other incredible things and his whole purpose was to go through trials and temptations and other human things that we go through and it was His will to die for our sins. 3 days later He rose again from the grave and accepting Jesus isnt about religion or doctrine or religious garbage its about you coming to the reality that you are human and you sin and you need a savior someone who is sinless and will redeem you through your faith in believing that he is the son of God, was sinless and died on the cross and 3 days later was resurrected from the grave and now offers eternal life. The bible is real, its not just some story or fairy tale theres a reason its the number 1 best selling book of all time. You can believe me or bash me i dont really care at this point. Sure i care about your salvation if you become saved or not but if i offended you i would recommend looking through a bible. There is more proof in this world that there is a God who took the time and created everything intricately and beautifully than i see proof of the big bang or evolution..i have an idea, take a watch yall place it on the counter and smash it with a hammer then grab a shoe box and place the watch in there and shake it a few times and tell me what happens..nothing. No matter how many times you shake the box that watch will never be made perfect again without someone taking the time to fix it and place it back together again. Better yet go to target and go to the legos section grab one of those small boxes and shake it and shake it again and again and again and hey same result nothing happens when it gets shaken. The car will never happen to come together without it being put together by someone.

    January 27, 2012 at 4:02 am |
    • Sheesh

      Maybe if we took all of the words in that post-that-causes-one's-eyes-to-bleed and put them in a box and shook them for 1000 years, we would get one thing that makes any sense!

      January 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • Mike

      Too much preaching and not enough substance, please make your point in less than 10 million words.

      January 27, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Mike

      I love your argument that the Bible is real because it's the best selling book of all time........... Hitler, Stalin and Teto were pretty darn popular at one time to.

      January 27, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
  4. Supporter

    It never ceases to amaze me the hatred that spews out of the "comments" It seems that no matter what I read or where I read an article that includes spirituality hatred abounds. Have you ever noticed that the majority of negative and hateful comments on said articles are from non-believers or athiests who choose to insult those of us who believe. But I don't recall ever seeing a nasty rebuttal from a believer to one of the hateful posts. Everyone talks about acceptance and tolerance but Christ Followers are the last ones to get it.

    January 26, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • Supporter

      Oh, by the way. Great article Pastor Driscoll, I can't wait to read your book!!

      January 26, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
    • Drew

      Very well stated. Hard to hate on this comment.

      January 26, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
  5. sharon

    Mr. Driscoll: I don't really care about your book. Your "Christianity" is way too narrow. You are not welcome in Portland, OR.

    January 26, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • christmas

      I think there will be lots of people in the Portland Oregon area that would disagree and wouldn't want to be clumped into your statement. Gotta be careful of that. Your own opinion is ok but let others have theirs too. 🙂

      January 26, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
  6. Keith

    Mr. Driscoll and CJ Mahaney need to start a band together, then take a 12 step walk off an 11 step bridge.

    January 26, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
  7. Nii Croffie

    I have evidence saying that God existed inside Jesus of Nazareth lived in AD 3-36 but off course as u said I don't have to prove it legally! He made pronouncements (hypotheses) which are borne out by Psychaitry, Psychoanalyses and Psychology. He never said He created the Universe in 6 days.

    January 26, 2012 at 4:13 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      This is for atheist scientists who care only. If u r a failed theologian, confused cleric or lawyer whose hobby is debating religion or religious atheist. I don't care. Don't post because I won't respond.

      January 27, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      I posted this down below under the conversation you were having with LinCA, but I thought I'd put it here too just for you.

      I'm no scientist but I do know a good bit about physics and physics can pretty easily disprove god.

      If you have 2 molecules in a vacuum, they will move according to the forces acting on them and nothing else. This is pretty obvious to most people. Well this holds true for any amount of molecules, even enough to make up a person. Breaking these basic forces and laws of physics would be catastrophic to our universe and the only way for a god to interfere with us would be to break these laws, which is impossible. So this not only disproved god, but also free will since you're just going to move along with the atoms in your body which are controlled by these forces. Just logic following basic physics to disprove your god.

      January 27, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
  8. Phil

    @ George

    I do not fear god because I do not believe that god exists. I'm probably 100% right.

    It's silly to imagine that a god created us when there is evidence all around you saying otherwise. Basically, George - what I'm saying is that we evolved...and yes, we started out as simple single celled organisms.

    We're made from the same elements that can be found here on earth. The same materials can be found on the sun (which is a star) - and probably most of the material in our solar system. All of that was created in a star that went supernova many billions of years ago. It's obvious, George.

    Man created god. Man created religion. Man created it because man wanted to control others. The methods used in religion are control through fear. You must do as god says, or else you'll burn in hell forever.

    That's pretty dumb if you ask me, George. I challenge you to put down the bible for five years and explore the world and universe around you by applying science to everything. You'll see that everything becomes very clear - and don't worry...if you don't believe in god anymore afterwards, that's okay!

    Don't you find it a little odd that god would be so vain as to make the first four commandments all about him?

    Don't worship any other god...
    Don't worship idols...
    Don't use my name in vain...
    Worship me on Sunday...

    Have you ever noticed that the first four are the most described while the others just say (don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery)...

    How convenient that god says "don't worship other gods". Why not? Because you might lose interest in the other one? That would cause the religion to suffer because they wouldn't have many members.....but man figured out how to solve that one...by murdering others "in the name of god".

    You don't need a god to create a universe. You don't need a god to create life. I'm one of millions of atheists who believe that life can exist without god. Follow us and explore the wonders and mysteries of where we came from and where we could potentially go.

    *as a side note, I do not capitalize the 'G' in god.

    January 26, 2012 at 1:45 am |
    • Dr. Collins

      "Basically, George – what I'm saying is that we evolved...and yes, we started out as simple single celled organisms."

      -Too bad..your grandpa Darwin wasn't able to stand the critics of his fossils and backpeddled when they were heavily criticised. He even tried to withdraw all his findings before he finally met his true maker.

      "I'm probably 100% right."

      -What a presumptuous claim you had!

      And you are using the name of Science right? FYI...Science is a continuing process of research, studies, discoveries and experiments.It
      neither claims "100% probability", nor absolutes.

      Your not claiming you're larger than Science, do you?

      "All of that was created in a star that went supernova many billions of years ago. It's obvious, George."

      -Would you mind enlighten us here what made it pretty obvious when nobody confirmed it yet.

      Man created god. Man created religion. Man created it because man wanted to control others. The methods used in religion are control through fear.

      AND.....

      I'm one of millions of atheists who believe that life can exist without god. Follow us and explore the wonders and mysteries of where we came from and where we could potentially go.

      -That sounds pretty much controling to me. You are not making your own version of religion, do you?

      Old Religion Version: Come follow me and I'll make you fishers of man.

      Your New Version: "Follow us and explore the wonders and mysteries of where we came from and where we could potentially go."

      AND....

      Old Religion Version: "You must do as god says, or else you'll burn in hell forever."

      Your New Version: You must believe what I say or you are an idiot! LOL...

      January 26, 2012 at 5:29 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Oh it is the official religion in China, North Korea and Cuba. lol

      January 26, 2012 at 5:50 am |
    • coffein

      If you are trying say that atheism is now a form of religion, don't forget to mention Russia.

      January 26, 2012 at 7:10 am |
    • Dr. Collins

      Should be read *you're not claiming you're that you're larger than Science, are you?

      January 26, 2012 at 7:30 am |
    • Dr. Collins

      Rather *You're not claiming that you're larger than Science, are you?

      January 26, 2012 at 7:33 am |
    • dave

      Most people who believe in God have no trouble with the science of evolution

      January 26, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • the waker

      the difference between those that believe in miracles and those that dont, is that those that do believe in miracles see them everywhere... and those that dont, never see them.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • the waker

      for example: any one of the cells in your body. that will blow your mind. or the complexity of the hand. or simply the reflexes to allow ones eyes to follow a fly around the room without moving ones head. or the ones in place allowing one to stand. takes a lot o work. and we never think. we just do it. you sir, or maam, are a miracle. and your ability to denounce it, is as well. welcome to the struggle.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • Santos

      These words will ring very hollow in eternity

      January 27, 2012 at 12:35 am |
  9. Intrepid Lecher

    Does this book endorse teh anal? If not, it is teh failsauce.

    January 25, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
  10. Nii Croffie

    Science n Law which one are the atheists using now? Atheists please Law is a literary art part of oratory a literary skill. If I hear one more legalistic position instead of a scientific one showing why instead of how God does not exist I will be tempted to think atheists are ignorant. Search Marx

    January 25, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • cmoore56

      @Nii Croffie: here's something for you to ponder. YOU prove scientifically, rather than legalistically, that God DOES exist. This is your challenge.

      January 25, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      I followed his words (hypotheses) n found them to be confirmed by Psychaitry, Psychoanalyses and Psychology. These are all scientific fields. That confirms them as theories. Now the scientific fields for atheism are...? I can't see Him is not an answer. Big Bang is not either as He never says 6 days

      January 26, 2012 at 4:24 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      NOTE THAT THE TIME A HYPOTHESES IS STATED DOES NOT MATTER.

      January 26, 2012 at 4:31 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      As I have stated these pleaase start the scientific inquiry! U cannot shoot them down with legal terminology. Scientific reports only!

      January 26, 2012 at 4:41 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "Science n Law which one are the atheists using now? Atheists please Law is a literary art part of oratory a literary skill. If I hear one more legalistic position instead of a scientific one showing why instead of how God does not exist I will be tempted to think atheists are ignorant. Search Marx"

      What part of – there isn't a solitary shred of evidence even suggesting that your god exists – is so fucking hard to grasp? There is nothing, absolutely nothing, other than the delusions of believers, that supports the notion of gods. Your god is equally likely to exist as the Tooth Fairy.

      There is absolutely no reason, scientifically or otherwise, to assume any gods exist. The theists' hypothesis is unsupported by any evidence. Any rational person will dismiss it without reservation. And since it isn't atheists that make the supremely moronic claim, they need to provide no evidence.

      Atheists tend to accept the scientific explanations regarding the origin of the universe and life. They tend to believe that evolution is real. They tend to be less anal about abortion and same sex marriage. They tend to be smarter than the rest of us. But because there is a strong correlation, doesn't mean it is atheism that causes this. Atheism doesn't say anything about the origins of the universe or life. It makes no claims about evolution, abortion or same sex marriage. Atheism doesn't make somebody smarter. All atheism is, is a disbelief in gods, including yours.

      So, if you wish for your position to be taken seriously, you should start by making your case for your imaginary friend. Provide the evidence for his existence and we'll discuss the merits of it. Without it you are nothing more than a 5 year old who still believes in the Tooth Fairy. It is time to put up, or shut up.

      January 26, 2012 at 8:03 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      LinCA I gave a free pass to cmoore but I think u run out. There is no scientific evidence for YOUR claims. It is not a myth that Jesus of Nazareth lived. We are not using legal arguments so the u proposed so u prove is not there. As I said it has been proven so debunk them scientifically.

      January 26, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Do not confuse Scientific Method applied to Law and Natural Science. Evolution etc we r not all.. about. Check Episcopal n UCC. I want u to show me how God does not exist (Science) not why u think He can't exist (Law). Otherwise I take my Psych-texts n Bible. I know u can do it! lol

      January 26, 2012 at 8:53 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "There is no scientific evidence for YOUR claims."
      I'm mean this in the nicest possible way. Are you fucking stupid?

      I don't make any claims. I simply refuse to believe yours unless and until you provide evidence. Believing there is a god, any god, is so incomprehensibly simple minded, it defies any and all logic.

      Your entire religion is built on, and relies on, the unsupported notion of your god. Without that god all your religion is, is circle jerking. I understand that once any believer realizes that, they may want to grasp at straws. Double down on the self delusion. Hold on to the lie against better judgement. Close their ears and eyes and mind even more.

      Some may actually wake up and grow up.

      You said, "It is not a myth that Jesus of Nazareth lived."
      The evidence in support of the dude actually existing is paper thin. Believing he was special, even if he existed, is equally moronic as believing his father was anyone but some middle eastern man. Just because his mother didn't fess up to sleeping around, doesn't make him special.

      You said, "We are not using legal arguments so the u proposed so u prove is not there. As I said it has been proven so debunk them scientifically."
      Are you off your meds?

      January 26, 2012 at 8:55 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      And if it is about atheist being smarter than the rest of us? Who are the us? Please it is no use spewing half-truths ok. We scientists do not accept Evolution as truth yet. It is a theory. Variation is a Law n is used as the evidence for Evolution. Both were discovered by believers-Mendel n Darwin.

      January 26, 2012 at 9:05 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Scientific arguments are so hard hmm! Please there are scientific reporting books read them. Talking about finite time also does not help as an eternal being sees time in infinite terms. Don't worry u did well but nothing new. Reality as I said scientific arguments not legal. U r failing.

      January 26, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "And if it is about atheist being smarter than the rest of us?"
      There are plenty of studies that show that higher intelligence is correlated to atheism (among men). For some light reading: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

      You said, "Who are the us?"
      Everybody. In the US that means that the IQs roughly form a normal distribution centered at 100, with a standard deviation of 15.

      You said, "We scientists do not accept Evolution as truth yet."
      Some scientists. Maybe. But my guess is, and this is just a wild ass guess, there will be a very strong correlation to belief in fairy tales among those that don't accept it.

      You said, "It is a theory."
      Supported by tons of evidence.

      If you dismiss evolution as merely a "theory", I will have a hard time believing you are a scientist.

      You said, "Variation is a Law n is used as the evidence for Evolution. Both were discovered by believers-Mendel n Darwin."
      I never said that believers didn't contribute anything, if that's what you're implying.

      January 26, 2012 at 9:25 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      LinCA darling as I said paper thin evidence is admissible in science. The Big Bang Theory proves it. Newtons 3 Laws of motion had one struck out n the remaining revised. When we say something is a Law it can or cannot be true. A theory and a hypotheses are lower than a Law. Now debunk God theory!

      January 26, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "LinCA darling as I said paper thin evidence is admissible in science."
      I'm not your darling and I never said it was inadmissible. It just doesn't make a compelling case. While there may be some evidence, it doesn't amount to much. Certainly not enough to support outlandish claims.

      You said, "The Big Bang Theory proves it. Newtons 3 Laws of motion had one struck out n the remaining revised. When we say something is a Law it can or cannot be true. A theory and a hypotheses are lower than a Law."
      A scientific law describes a phenomenon. It doesn't explain why. A theory aims to describe and explain. Neither can stand in the face of evidence that disproves (part of) it. But that's just the way science works. Observations lead to hypotheses, theories and laws. If further experimentation shows something else, the theories and laws get revised. Pretty simple, actually. And more reason for me to doubt that you are a scientist.

      You said, "Now debunk God theory!"
      Your statement is ridiculous. Your god is a figment. Unless you have evidence, you don't even have a theory.

      January 26, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Making scientific reports is simple. Bullet ur points. Say what u want to say. I know what I wrote I cn see it on the blog. As to statistics they can't just correlate they must be definite. I can also say for instance that people are losing faith @ universities owing to immorality n liberalism.

      January 26, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      LinCA I forgot to add that THIS IS NOT A COURT OF LAW so whether I am a scientist or not cannot be determined by my words. I am. Inuendoes badgering of the witness does not exist. Debunk the theory by presenting findings in Psycho etc that contradict Christ's words. Forget about me.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      Reading for comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

      You said, "LinCA I forgot to add that THIS IS NOT A COURT OF LAW so whether I am a scientist or not cannot be determined by my words."
      I never said you weren't.

      You said, "I am."
      All we have is your word. I don't consider that sufficient to accept your claim. Your other blathering weaken your position significantly. I remain unconvinced.

      You said, "Debunk the theory by presenting findings in Psycho etc that contradict Christ's words."
      Like I said above, there is no theory to debunk. All you have is a fairy tale. A theory requires supporting evidence.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      One more thing Science is very impersonal. My throwing a challenge is very different from ur actual character. By ignorant I meant u could not prove the non-existence of God with Science. I don't care whether every scientist who does not believe in God is a moron or not. I don't care how u feel.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      About time u gave it a rest my career, my stupidity, my wisdom n all are based on my religion. I am not a scientist because I believe in Christ. Christ might have lived but it is just a fable to u. I am not a scientist because I study more than my textbooks. Its all about me or u? Go to bed!

      January 26, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • YeahRight

      "I don't care how u feel."

      Yes you do it's why you keep responding.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Maybe u cud have used "WHY MY DOG IS BETTER THAN GOD!" lol. This is not a scientific treatise but funny quotes. I laugh @ such attempts to discredit God b'cos it shows how far down the road u are! America may have enough Seminaries to teach u how to argue against God but scientists don't care.

      January 26, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Wow

      "I laugh @ such attempts to discredit God b'cos it shows how far down the road u are! "

      There is absolutely NO proof your God exists. It's been centuries and still NOT on once of proof.

      January 26, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "My throwing a challenge is very different from ur actual character."
      What challenge? The only challenge appears your comprehension and willingness to open your eyes.

      You said, "By ignorant I meant u could not prove the non-existence of God with Science."
      Again, there is no need to prove the non-existence of a being for which there is no reason to assume it exists. The notion of the existence gods is as ridiculous as that of the existence of the Tooth Fairy. I don't see many people trying to prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exists. Sane adults know all these creatures are inventions of man.

      You said, "I don't care whether every scientist who does not believe in God is a moron or not."
      Another inane comment that severely discredits your claim of being a scientist. It certainly isn't the scientist that don't believe in fairy tales that are the morons. Adults that still expect a quarter if they loose a tooth are the morons.

      You said, "I don't care how u feel."
      Like YeahRight said, why keep replying if you don't care?

      You said, "About time u gave it a rest my career, my stupidity, my wisdom n all are based on my religion."
      Talk about a contradiction in terms. "Wisdom based on religion". That's a good one. On the other hand, the stupidity based on your religion is quite obvious.

      You said, "I am not a scientist because I believe in Christ. Christ might have lived but it is just a fable to u. I am not a scientist because I study more than my textbooks."
      Believing in fairy tales doesn't qualify you to be a scientist. You appear to know little about science. Have you been educated in science? Do you work in a scientific field? Do you apply science?

      You said, "Its all about me or u? Go to bed!"
      This discussion is neither about you or me. It is about refuting the inane comments you've made.

      You said, "Maybe u cud have used "WHY MY DOG IS BETTER THAN GOD!" lol. This is not a scientific treatise but funny quotes. I laugh @ such attempts to discredit God b'cos it shows how far down the road u are!"
      No, it's funny, because it's true.

      You said, "America may have enough Seminaries to teach u how to argue against God but scientists don't care."
      No seminaries required. An open mind is all that is needed.

      January 26, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      LinCA I really am serious about looking for an atheist scientist to convince me how God does not exist. I'm sorry if u can't but it is not my fault. I can argue legally all day long but I wanted scientific proof for their position. Please do get off my case. I really do not care about ur religion.

      January 27, 2012 at 12:56 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Open mindedness is knowing about EQ as well as IQ. U were oblivious of that. I feel like I'm talking to a JW or Christian Fundamentalist. Read the Bible, go to Seminary, maybe Medical School after Biology or Engineering Pre-Med. Frankly ur lack of scientific knowledge is pathetic to say the least.

      January 27, 2012 at 1:06 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      Ever since I started to read and write on the Belief Blog I have said I am not a religious believer. Do u even know the difference between a religious and a spiritual believer? I lived with an atheist for almost all my life. I've heard all ur arguments b4. In the long run he opened his mind.

      January 27, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      I really do not see why I SHUD REPLY A POST FROM U AGAIN. At least a third is made up of my thoughts anyway. The rest is verbal abuse and legalistic self-righteous aarguements with no bearing on Science whatsoever. I know where my local Kingdom Hall is! U r blocking someone who can do the job.

      January 27, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "LinCA I really am serious about looking for an atheist scientist to convince me how God does not exist."
      You're not. You are simply using the fact that it is impossible to disprove someone's imaginary friend as an excuse to cling to yours.

      You said, "I'm sorry if u can't but it is not my fault."
      It is entirely your fault for not being able to let go of those infantile beliefs.

      You said, "I can argue legally all day long but I wanted scientific proof for their position. Please do get off my case. I really do not care about ur religion."
      You fail or refuse to understand that the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. I make no outrageous claim about leprechauns or pixie dust. You are the one claiming the existence of your god. I merely refuse to accept it without some evidence. And, by the way, I don't have a religion.

      You said, "Open mindedness is knowing about EQ as well as IQ."
      I'm open to a rational argument about it. But all you spout is nonsense.

      You said, "I feel like I'm talking to a JW or Christian Fundamentalist."
      Been talking to yourself again?

      You said, "Read the Bible, go to Seminary, maybe Medical School after Biology or Engineering Pre-Med."
      Been there, done that. The bible part was sorely lacking.

      You said, "Frankly ur lack of scientific knowledge is pathetic to say the least."
      And you base this on what, exactly?

      You said, "Ever since I started to read and write on the Belief Blog I have said I am not a religious believer."
      Could have fooled me. You may not belong to any particular sect, but I sincerely doubt you are not a religious believer.

      You said, "Do u even know the difference between a religious and a spiritual believer?"
      Yes. But they both believe in fairy tales.

      You said, "I lived with an atheist for almost all my life. I've heard all ur arguments b4. In the long run he opened his mind."
      Whatever "living as an atheist" is, I doubt you ever were one.

      You said, "I really do not see why I SHUD REPLY A POST FROM U AGAIN."
      Nobody is forcing you.

      You said, "The rest is verbal abuse and legalistic self-righteous aarguements with no bearing on Science whatsoever."
      Questioning the nonsense you spout is hardly abuse. Questioning your scientific credentials is neither.

      You said, "I know where my local Kingdom Hall is!"
      I do, too. I avoid it like the plague.

      You said, "U r blocking someone who can do the job."
      I'm not blocking anyone. This comment board has the magical capability to expand to exactly the right size to fit all the comments. Must be some god at work. </sarcasm>

      January 27, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      BOOOORIIING!!!

      January 27, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      I'm no scientist but I do know a good bit about physics and physics can pretty easily disprove god.

      If you have 2 molecules in a vacuum, they will move according to the forces acting on them and nothing else. Well this holds true for any amount of molecules, even enough to make up a person. Breaking these basic forces and laws of physics would be catastrophic to our universe and the only way for a god to interfere with us would be to break these laws, which is impossible. So this not only disproved god, but also free will since you're just going to move along with the atoms in your body which are controlled by these forces. Just logic following basic physics to disprove your god.

      January 27, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Nii Croffie

      You said, "BOOOORIIING!!!"
      Spoken like a true 5 year old. Did you type that with your eyes closed and your hands covering your ears, shouting "la, la, la, la, la ...."?

      January 27, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  11. I like sodomy and I despise Jesus "The Lebanese Chairman Mao" Christ.

    Life is good.

    January 25, 2012 at 6:03 pm |
    • George

      You need to get your heart right with God.

      January 25, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • tiresome unimaginative troll

      is tiresome and unimaginative

      January 25, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      George, you need to get your head stuck in a woodchipper.

      January 26, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
  12. cmoore56

    I'd like to know just how "pastor" Mark Driscoll thinks that shaming and abusing his church-goers is Christian? This post lets you learn all about the cult that Driscoll passes off as a "church". Scary indeed...
    http://matthewpaulturner.net/blog/mark-driscolls-church-discipline-contract-looking-for-true-repentance-at-mars-hill-church-sign-on-the-dotted-line/

    January 25, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • Jesus C.

      You Christians just continue to "do it" with your eyes closed and for Heavens sake, don't talk about it.

      January 25, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • Barb

      You are crazier than a hoot owl!

      January 25, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
  13. Tom

    Who cares, do what feels good and is safe and agreed/accepted by all involved parties. Conservatives can live their life however they want, don't care, just leave me alone with my wife and lover and her lover.

    January 25, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • George

      Don't you fear God? You are risking your immortal soul. The Bible is quite clear on s.e.xual sin.

      January 25, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, shut the h3ll up, George, ya big fake. You know you don't believe a word you post, you phony.

      January 26, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
  14. T$F%

    MILLIONS TO BE ASSASSINATED FOR THE SAKE OF $$$ LIABILITIES(mk-ultra, chip implants, electroshocks etc. performed on them) AND NEW WORLD ORDER(multiculturalism = terrorism) POLITICAL AGENDA KNOWN AS "YOU ARE NEXT"(financial liabilities are 2 expensive for the government and it is cheaper to get read of you instead) !!!

    ABDUCTIONS / FORCED BRAIN CHIP IMPLANTS / BLACKLISTING / FORCEFUL UNEMPLOYMENT / MK-ULTRA BRAINWASHING AGAINST WHITE(under "NAZI" lie) CIVILIAN POPULATION TODAY IN 2011/2012 ACROSS THE EUROPE AND NORTHERN AMERICA !!!WHY TO ACCEPT LIABILITIES FOR CRIMES COMMITTED WHEN WE CAN SIMPLY ASSASSINATE OUR VICTIMS(YOU) THANKS TO HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS AND FREE PRESS/MEDIA(most severe censorship of genocide ever !!!)!! Related to WHITES NO LONGER WELCOME IN AMERICA!

    January 25, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • T$F%

      NOW YOU KNOW WHAT ORWELLIAN UNITED STATES CONGRESS(USSR #2 which consists of lawyers or what are liars and physicians...lawyers, so crime per physicians can get away with it) AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS WORLDWIDE ARE SO BUSY WITH WHEN PLAYING/CLOWNING(acting) IN FRONT OF CAMERAS ONLY HOW SOMETHING HAVE TO BE DONE(deliberately omitting/delaying facts of genocide as seen on this complain) ROMNEY'S FATHER ALIKE WHO EXCELLED AFTER GM WAS DELIBERATELY BANKRUPT(LIKE AMERICA TODAY = success based on deliberate sabotage = known as grand treason!!!)

      LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT UNITED NATIONS, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL AS WELL AS NEW WORLD ORDER(MULTICULTURALISM = TERRORISM) GOVERNMENTS(Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) !!! NOT THERE TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS, BUT TO DENY YOUR RIGHT TO EXISTENCE !!!

      January 25, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Nick

      It's "puff, puff, pass", jagoff, now hand it over already.

      January 26, 2012 at 1:59 am |
    • Todd

      I sure hope someone in the "Orwellian" state is keeping a close eye on you.

      January 26, 2012 at 2:10 am |
  15. Reality

    Dear Pastor,

    Where are you? Still in bed with your wife? Time to rise and shine!!!

    And still waiting for your response to the following:

    You might want to spend more time reading about the flaws in your religion.

    To get you started, a summary:

    Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    January 25, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Karrie

      The problems you cite in the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian churches exists within every segment of our society, too, usually in much higher numbers. The incidence of pedophilia in the RCC, for example, is far less at 0.3 % than that in the greater population of 4%, yet the media often use hyperbole to indoctrinate their ignorant subscribers, sheeple who often believe it. As for why you chose this forum to air your anti-God views, I can think of no other explanation than you have serious anger issues and/or a reading comprehension problem. Your comments have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. If you understood that your computer is a great research tool, you could easily google a more appropriate venue for spewing your anti-God venom.

      January 25, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • Ogre

      Karrie,

      Back atcha, kid. You also can easily Google a Christian web site/talk forum, where they ban any contradictory posts and posters.

      January 25, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Reality

      Saw this on another blog:

      From a Philadelphia Inquirer's report on Cardinal Bevilacqua's testimony to a grand jury investigating the pedophilia coverup in the Philadelphia Archdiocese during the "god-anoited, can-do-wrong" Cardinal's tenure:

      "Bevilacqua insisted he needed "evidence in order to ask someone to step down."

      And not just any evidence. Anonymous reports, Bevilacqua said, had "no value at all to me."

      "Secondhand information," he added, lacked credibility.

      That puzzled the jurors, who then asked Bevilacqua if he believed in the Gospels.

      "Yes," assured the cardinal.

      "But," Spade pressed, "it's the jurors' understanding that the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written many years after the actual events," by those not present at the time.

      "Yes," Bevilacqua agreed.

      So, using the cleric's own logic, wouldn't that make the Gospels "secondhand information"?

      January 25, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Mel

      I think you need to get a life, and get off the internet

      January 25, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Reality

      For those who might be reading challenged: (and a quickie for the pastor)

      From a PowerPoint slide:

      SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:
      THERE WERE NEVER ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY.

      Added details available

      January 25, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • ......

      do not be reding challenged hiit report abuse on all reality bull sh it posts

      January 25, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      @Reality: If u do not want to b Christian its better for u. How do u connect it with thats why God does not exist? I mean tell us how God does not exist scientifically. As to the crimes committed I hope u were not responsible for Communists killing Christians as it was done in ur name.

      January 26, 2012 at 6:06 am |
    • Reality

      What we do know: (from the fields of astrophysics, nuclear physics, geology and the history of religion)

      1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame.

      2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.

      3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter.

      4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.

      5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.

      6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.

      7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode catalytically at any time ending life on Earth.

      Bottom line: our apocalypse will start between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years?

      January 26, 2012 at 8:51 am |
    • Reality

      The Twenty (or so) Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other:

      M. White, http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u (required reading)

      The Muslim Conquest of India

      "The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

      Rank …..Death Toll ..Cause …..Centuries……..(Religions/Groups involved)*

      1. 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists/atheists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")

      2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)

      3. 40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)

      4. 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)

      5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)

      6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)

      7. 20 million Joseph Stalin 20C (Communism)

      8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)

      9. 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

      10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)

      11. 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)

      12. 15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians vs. Pagans)

      13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C

      14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

      15. 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

      16. 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)

      17. 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans vs. Pagans)

      18. 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)

      19. 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)

      20. 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

      January 26, 2012 at 8:53 am |
    • Reality

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/Disease:

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie/horn-blowing talking thingies".

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      January 26, 2012 at 8:55 am |
    • Nii Croffie

      REALITY. I'm still not convinced by ur scientific arguements. What we have learnt is not definitely the truth. We exclude the right to declare truth. Please that is more the line of theology or philosophy etc not the Natural Sciences.

      January 26, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Reality

      And summarizing with a prayer:

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen

      (some of the references used)

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
      o
      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

      3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
      – "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
      4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
      7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
      8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
      joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
      9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.

      January 26, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Using ur original post and subsequent comments. I have concluded that u r a computer program gone bad. Why? Oh u use a pseudonym, 99% of all ur posts re cut and pastes of oder sources. However de Bible n its sources u cud not mention. If u r human take Alpha n den read thro de Bible b4 u come back.

      January 26, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Wow

      "Using ur original post and subsequent comments. I have concluded that u r a computer program gone bad. Why? Oh u use a pseudonym, 99% of all ur posts re cut and pastes of oder sources. However de Bible n its sources u cud not mention. If u r human take Alpha n den read thro de Bible b4 u come back."

      Wow it's pitiful what people are doing to the English language, no wonder you have reading comprehension problems.

      January 26, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Wooow! How about u copying out a whole post of mine for u to get something to write. Now that is called a creative writing problem! The fact is that I am not an Anglo-Saxon but funny enough I do not plagiarize blog posts. That is not only sad it makes me weep. lol

      January 26, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
  16. Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer causes small kids to get hit by buses when they aren't paying attention.
    Prayer takes people away from actually working on real solutions to their problems.
    Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
    Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
    Prayer fucks up your knees and your back.
    Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
    Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
    Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
    Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
    Prayer makes you hoard cats.
    Prayer makes you crave the smell of kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
    Prayer wastes time.

    January 25, 2012 at 10:57 am |
  17. Mike H

    What we can take from this is no matter how noble your intentions may be, and no matter how much good your service may provide, there's always going to be folks who are unhappy with you.

    January 25, 2012 at 4:41 am |
    • DEAN BERRY MINISTRIES

      Are Christians persecuted in Israel? Yes. It's illegal to hand out Christian literature there. How many thousands of Palestinian Christians have the israelis murdered? Have the Muslims taken by subterfuge and war almost every economy on earth? Do they control America's economy, legal system, media, politicians and elections, and military apparatus? No. "Jews" are America's lords – our CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. DEAN BERRY MINISTRIES

      January 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
  18. sybaris

    The lesson is that religion has done more to overtly pervert peoples minds than the perversions they were born with.

    January 24, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
  19. Jennifer A.

    My favorite part of the book has been the chapter on friendship with your partner. He shares timeless and practical points about the importance of pursuing your partner in lifelong intimate friendship.

    January 24, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • sam

      ...with a peen.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
  20. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things
    Pray without ceasing in 2012

    January 24, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • Unknown Muncher

      You are crazy, I hope you aren't raising children

      January 24, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Observer

      The Bible said to avoid being a show-off about praying. Guess you skipped that part. Hypocrisy isn't new.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • sybaris

      If your moniker were true then there would only be atheists in prison and all non-christian countries would be in chaos.

      That is certainly not the case.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • demon with arthritis

      GAVE ME ARTHRITIS

      January 24, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • just sayin

      Encouragement to prayer is not prayer itself therefore it cannot be considered showing off. The hypocrisy seems to be in the misinterpretation of what has been said

      January 25, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • Phil

      Sorry... But prayer is always an ineffective way to accomplish something. It has yet to provide any results.

      A pair of hands at work is better than a thousand folded in prayer.

      Tell me, why is atheism not healthy for children and "other living things"? We were all born atheists. Some of us were indoctrinated into the religion our parents believed in...then brainwashed into actually believing there is a god and we should worship (him/her/it).

      Why "other living things"? My grass is living. It isn't aware that I'm an atheist nor does it know anything about some mythical being called god. My four cats don't know about religion...neither does my dog. None of them pray.

      Atheism allows you to do so much more with your mind. It allows you to question the existence of the universe without having to factor in "god dunnit" which is a pretty lame answer to things that can't be explained.

      Long ago, before science had the foundation it does today - the existence of god's explained everything. However today, we don't worship Ra - we know that's silly. Why is the christian god any different?

      The christian god is no different than any other god.....totally imaginary and nonexistent.

      January 25, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Nonimus

      "Pray without ceasing in 2012"

      Umm... I guess the lack of sleep, food, or drink would soon give you your response.

      January 25, 2012 at 11:59 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.