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January 30th, 2012
04:28 AM ET
Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Monday, January 30
By Dan Merica, CNN Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories. From the Blog: CNN: Family convicted in Canada ‘honor murders’  Some see signs of growing strife within American Jewry over the issue of Israel. CNN: American Jews confront internal rancor over Israel Tweet of the Day: From @askmormongirl: Ask Mormon Girl: My grandkids are Mormon, and I'm not. What will they be taught about me at church? wp.me/playv-7g Enlightening Reads: National Post: Netherlands plans to ban Muslim face-covering veils next year Catholic News Service: Christianity, religion risk oblivion in many parts of world, pope says  Newt converted to Catholicism when he married Callista. Huffington Post: Newt Gingrich’s Past Weights Him Down in Florida New York Times: Ruling on Contraception Draws Battle Lines at Catholic Colleges Jewish Journal: Can we afford kosher lettuce? Quote of the Day: "Everybody understands that women bishops are coming into the Church of England, the only question is there going to be a space in the Church of England for those who on theological grounds and ecumenical grounds cannot accept that development." The Rt Rev John Hind, the Bishop of Chichester, has led opposition to ordaining women as bishops but said that it was now certain to happen. Today’s My Faith:  Family, says Egan, is mostly what people talk about before they die. CNN: My Faith: What people talk about before they die Join the conversation… CNN: Florida Evangelicals a different breed of voter than brethren in Iowa, South Carolina
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  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Prayer changes things
God ordains prayer
STEP Proves you wrong...
Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.
The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical. The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility
9) When did the fig tree hear of its doom?
"In Matthew 21:17-19 when Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple, or was it before the purging as in Mark 11:14-15, and verse 20? It cannot be both, unless Jesus cursed the same fig tree twice, which would make him verifiably senile."
FALLACY: NON SEQUITUR. INVALID CONCLUSION.
See Mark 11:13-14.
IF Jesus cleansed the Temple in Mat 21:12 (P), THEN it was before He cursed the fig tree (Q). Mat 21:12, 17-19. Mark 11:13-14.
IF it was before He cursed the fig tree (Q), THEN it was before Jesus cleansed the Temple in Mark 11:15 (R).
THEREFORE, IF Jesus cleansed the Temple in Mat 21:12 (P), THEN it was before Jesus cleansed the Temple in Mark 11:15 (R).
P -> Q
Q -> R
+ P -> R
VALID REASONING.
10) When did the fig tree keel?
"The fig tree withered immediately in Matthew 21:9, and the disciples registered surprise then and there. Yet in Mark 11:12-14 and 20 the disciples noticed it had withered the morning after and expressed astonishment."
See above.
FACT: Mark 11:13-14 occurs between the two cleansings. P -> R. FORMER CONCLUSION.
FACT: Mark 11:20 occurs after the second cleansing, and only Peter speaks.
Moved David to anger?
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
ERROR: unlike variables: "moved" and "provoked".
INVALID COMPLAINT.
P: the LORD moved
Q: Satan provoked
P ^ Q
Valid on Line 1 of the Truth Table for P ^ Q.
2Sa 24:9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
1Ch 21:5 And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.
P: “the sum” Israel “valiant men” 2Sa 24:9.
Q: “the sum” Israel “800,000” 2Sa 24:9.
~Q: “the sum” Israel “1,100,000” 1Ch 21:5.
IF the sum of Israel were valiant men (P), THEN their sum was 800,000 (Q).
The sum of Israel was 1,100,000 (~Q).
THEREFORE, NOT the sum of Israel were valiant men (~P).
P -> Q
~Q
├ ~P
VALID REASONING.
P: “the sum” Judah “drew sword” 1Ch 21:5.
Q: “the sum” Judah “470, 000” 1Ch 21:5.
~Q: “the sum” Judah “500,000” 2Sa 24:9.
IF the sum of Judah drew sword (P), THEN their sum was 470,000 (Q).
The sum of Judah was 500,000 (~Q).
THEREFORE, NOT the sum of Judah drew sword (~P).
P -> Q
~Q
├ ~P
VALID REASONING.
Moron. There's your sign.
Prayer changes things
Prayer in the afternoon
Brings warmth to the soul
Prayer changes things
Nope
Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.
The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical. The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.
prayer works
No it doesn't it makes things worse, you've been proven wrong.
You're both terribly annoying.
no proof ,no truth nope was disproven days ago but does enjoy the attention he gets by posting a lie over again
"no proof ,no truth nope was disproven days ago but does enjoy the attention he gets by posting a lie over again"
You're the one lying, and lying is a sin moron.
the question is
is nope wrong?
YEPPP
Alfred, nope provide proof, you did not that makes you a fool.
nope" provide" proof? unsubstantiated rumor disproven earlier on the same story. nope provided crap
"unsubstantiated rumor disproven earlier on the same story. nope provided crap"
Stop being a fool Alfred, your arrogance has no place in a Christian heart. Now humble yourself and move on.
Now who looks the fool dip stick?
"Now who looks the fool dip stick?"
Alfred honor your Lord, and stop with all this foolishness, you are wrong it's time to humble your heart and move on like a good Christian.
since you are nope your bull sh it has already been shown for what it is sorry you are a loser.
Alfred how dare you call your Lord and Savior a loser. You lost this argument, now stop being such a sore loser.
there have to be two intelligent people in an argument this discussion only has had one -me there will be no further discussions you are wasting my time. God will require your savior lie of you.
Poor Alfred you're such a loser and will spend eternity in hell for being so wrong.
Moron. There's your sign.
I BET MY LAST DOLLAR YOU GUYS ON HERE HAVE AT LEAST 3 or 4 names & I bet MY BOTTOM DOLLAR YOU ALL HAVE MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES! YOU REALLY GIVE YOUR SELF AWAY!
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.
I can promise everyone on here this is the only name I have ever used.
Don't tell anyone!
@J.W: You said, "I can promise everyone on here this is the only name I have ever used."
Ditto. There's no way I want someone else getting credit for my nuggets of wisdom.
You consider that a thought? Well, I guess a guy like you would have to take what he can get.
Sometimes it does get confusing.
I've been Dr. Humoladonne Q. Vestibule online and as a musical nom-de-plime since 1998 when I got an airmiles card in that name.
thats a funny sentence – i wonder if the one giving him/herself away are native american? AH the hint at the pun – lol.
sean you can't sculpt with sh it
pervert alert
sean you can't sculpt with sh it
...... yes you can... just needs to be frozen –
@JUST -I bet you had to use all five of your brain cells to come up with that nugget.
Also, the caps lock key is the one just to the left of the 'A' key. You'll recognize it because it probably says 'Caps Lock' on it. Trying hitting it sometime.
So are we using 3 or 4 for the over/under. If it's 3 I'll go $400 on the over.
I tried to check myself into the hospital/psych ward the other day. When asked why I explained that I believe in God and that all the atheists tell me I'm delusional and psychotic. Well nonetheless they turned me down, said believing in God doesn't make anyone delusional or psychotic.
Seriously though, to all the athests; do you realize how much credence your argument gets when you say believers need to check them selves into a psych ward bc they're delusional? It's ignorant and shows absolutely no intellectual capacity when you say such things....btw the same goes for comparing God to santa, easter bunny, etc, they're not even comparable once you gain atleast an elementary education of Christianity. Only shows the shallowness of your argument.
John 15:4-5
(4) Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. (5) "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Amen.
Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1913 book General Psychopathology.[2] These criteria are:
certainty (held with absolute conviction)
incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)[3]
Furthermore, when a false belief involves a value judgment, it is only considered as a delusion if it is so extreme that it cannot be or ever can be proven true (example: a man claims that he flew into the sun and flew back home. This would be considered a delusion).
accecptance can be a bit.ch but its ok, your not that first to come to terms with TRUTH!
@Truth,
I liked the bit about trying to check yourself in. Excellent debate approach and humorous, too. Unfortunately, it's an appeal to authority fallacy, as well. In addition, the assertion that God has more basis than the existence of Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny, isn't exactly accurate. At least, I don't think there is any more evidence for Him than them. The main difference, I think, is that no one is really claiming they are real, but that isn't necessary for the comparison, since the number of believers doesn't increase the truth of the belief.
Pssst, hippypoet. Be very very quiet. I'll tell you this secret .... Shrinks believe themselves to be the saviors of mankind.
Amen.
lol, wow very nice... such a proper argument against mine – i think its time you go find that burning bush...just remember, no shoes – god hates shoes!
Recently psychiatrists have begun to put congregations like mine that are active in community affairs in a strange position. With insurance, and particularly medicaid payments being as unsatisfactory as they are, and with patient loads increasing, they are beginning to encourage people to seek pastoral care. Rather than seeing us as "delusional", they are looking to us as allies.
and do you really think that if the psychiatrists shares your beliefs he will call you delusional..NO!
but even if its mass delusion, its still delusion!
hippypoet –
My sense has been that psychiatrists who are suggesting pastoral care to people do not necessarily share in the "delusion". Some may, of course.
Let's see you dance, suckers! You got nothin on me!
And you liar prevails you cannot even spell the book you are demeaning and every day for weeks the evidences of God has been presented, more than enough to bring a favorable verdict in any court, anywhere and yet you still demand evidence? There has to be a word for a person so hard done by ... oh yeah, stupid
I want to eat buttCrust. Lets get high!
A poem for you.
"Roses are red
Voilets are blue
Its Monday morning again
and Im eating doo doo."
oh sooo sad... i'm sure you can do better then that.... well maybe not!
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
It is a prayer ...'God keep our land'...
@just spewin: Nope, you're wrong...my country is secular...please respect that you brainwashed lunatic
You lying dip stick it is right there in the song..."God keep our land"... a prayer
@just spewin: my country, my anthem...stfu you dolt!! It is not a god damn prayer!!! This is a secular nation...the words mean as much as your stupid ass belief system does-absolutely nothing!! Prayer is what it may be to you but to any rational minded person it is what it is...words (and ones that have no meaning to our country), nothing more!!!
Prayer = talking to God
"God keep our land"= talking to God making a request of God = PRAYER
Your national anthem is a PRAYER
I think "just sayin" has a point it looks like a prayer to me.
Asking God for something? Definitely prayer.
Prayer changes things
Prayer is talking with God
Prayer is making requests of God
Prayer is honored every time
Canadians honor their anthem
Prayer changes things
O Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux.
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix.
Ton histoire est une épopée,
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Who let the frogs out?
Who let the frogs out
"Prayer changes things"
Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.
The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical. The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.
Your opinion has been shown to be false but keep posting it. You should be able to fool all the atheists with it.
"Your opinion has been shown to be false but keep posting it. You should be able to fool all the atheists with it."
It has not been proven false, but you keep lying about it.
The first thread on this blog debunks your bunk, but you get 2 points for brass for holding onto your lie in spite of contrary evidence on the same page loser.
"The first thread on this blog debunks your bunk, but you get 2 points for brass for holding onto your lie in spite of contrary evidence on the same page loser."
You have no evidence to the contrary that's the point, all you have is a lie on top of another lie, and lying is a sin!
right, so fuk that prayer guy – and moving on...lol
so i have been sick with gold fever since about 2 years ago and i wan't to know if i was the only one - i have studied geology maps, mineral deposits, glacier trials, continental drift, plate tectonics, and pangea along with the ancient oceans that once existed...all leads to gold, emeralds, rubys, sapphires, and DIAMONDS!!!!!!
so anyone share that illiness? and perhaps want to share info? the only thing i have yet to do is spend money on a detector to make finding a bit easier....perhaps with the tax return, but who knows – my daughter thinks its fun, i get dissappointed and she laughs at me...lol.. but thats cool, cause i play it out like a baby lost its bink – soooo, but really thou, anyone else got the fever?
Well, the first step is recognizing that it is an illness. Only kidding. Have you ever been to North Georgia? There is a place near Helen, Georgia, where you can look for gold with some reasonable chance of finding something. Really great little town, too.
You could always try your luck in the public diamond mines of Arkansas. You find it, YOU keep it, OR, they will buy it from you.
yes i have.. did you know that gold from the STATE not the country georgia is the most puriest gold in the world – pure gold is rated at 97.9 or close to but gold from georgia is rated at 98.9 or above so for that reason its worth more... and did you know that georgia had its very own gold rush back in the 1800's it centered around the town called Dahlonega.... but soon after gold was found in cali. and it was much easier to get at.
prayer works wonders on sin
yup, its the only diamond mine in the whole US. and its open to the public for only 5 bucks entry fee... they have an average of 1 diamond found each week – and did you know that nothing sticks to diamonds, they never need to be cleaned – they come out of the dirt like they look on rings...when a place tells you "let me clean that for you" all they are doing is cleaning the surrounding metal – it makes the rock look nicer. 🙂
@just spewin: do your delusions keep you up at night? Sin is only something invented by you christards to attempt to place fear in to mankind for making mistakes, it has no meaning otherwise. What type of good being insists on instilling fear in the creation it made? Seems to me that you seriously need psychiatric assistance if you are too brain dead to live in the real world and still believe in this garbage!!!
Sin is the moral failings of mankind, lying you are familiar with, stealing, crimes of all sort, ungodly pride, hate etc etc
ungodly pride you say... please enlighten us to what ungodly pride is compared to just plain old normal pride?
Pride of accomplishment God created and saw that it was good =good pride
I am better than you are =ungodly pride
Satans pride i am better than God = lying false pride
@just sayin: So you're just full of ungodly pride, aren't you...
@just spewin: Given that you have no verifiable evidence to back your god or your satan, you are the one lying!! Feel free to keep looking like the dolt you are...sin only exists in your 2000 year old book (written by man, inspired by man and full of criminal activities...your god would have been hung by today's laws). You are such a hypocritical loser...you dare to come on here and preach and yet you can't even provide evidence for the existence of your god. You know nothing of the book you call the buybull (it doesn't get the merit of the spelling you use...it is useless in today's society). Time to sign yourself in to the asylum for help with those delusions...it's where schizophrenics belong and you are the equivalent of one as is well seen from your numerous postings about unverifiable gods/demons/use of prayer.
well then, i guess there shallnt be any chit chat about gold hunting ... sigh. too bad. it was worth a shot at least.
For real treasure seek out the word of God – the Bible
There is gold in those pages.
If you want treasure, just do what Chrstians have historically done.
Brand whoever owns the bauble as a heathen/pagan/heretic and just take it!
How do you think the Spaniards got all the Aztec/Incan gold?
Want a diamond? Do what a Christian monk did in the early 1800's with the Eye of Brahma and steal it right from a Hindu statue.
Some other famous diamonds stolen from India by Christian imperialists and proselytizers include, the 186.063 carat Koh-i-Noor, owned originally by the Rajah of Malwa in 1294, that was stolen (or rather, forcibly taken) by the British from the successor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh (of Punjab). The Koh-i-Noor, cut to 108.063 carats to increase its brilliance, now adorns the crown of the Queen of the United Kingdom. There was also the 45.52 carat Hope Diamond, the world's largest deep blue diamond, "found" in India by noted French traveller Jean Baptiste Tavernier in the seventeenth century. Then, weighing 88.70 carats, there was the Shah diamond, that was also spirited away from India.
Doc do you have something of importance to add to anything or are you just out to convince the world you are an ass hole?
Just stating facts that show the nature of the abuses of religion and backing them up with historical references.
Hippy's discussion about teasure/diamong hunting was waylaid by religious folk, so I thought I could bring the tangen/ital aspects of teh conversation back around to the topic at hand.
Everybody should examine the history of their religion and what has been done in their God's name.
It might just drive the faithful away from the church and into a truer, more personal and (most importantly) less intrusive faith.
ass hole it is then
"ass hole it is then"
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot
dots defined itself so now no one else has to
@pervert
At least I can back up my a$$holish assertions with facts.
Thus far, all you've done is hurl invectives with nary a refutation to the points I've been making.
@Doc Vestibule: So...standard tactics, eh? 🙂
sue me ass hole
and if you added manure your opinion (facts) would be bull sh it
lol, true primates with your flinging poo!!!!! oh i'm sorry, its manure.. lol
too bad, i wish all these posts were on gold mining/panning but NOOOOOOOOOOO.
it happens. 🙂
@hippypoet: Sorry about that, hippy. I only have one experience with gold hunting.
I was trying out my dad's metal detector, and I found an unimaginable amount of gold and silver. When I tried to collect it, they called mall security and had me escorted out of Zales. Haven't gone treasure hunting since.
try panning Doc Vestibules crap, he says it doesn't stink and he thinks there is value in it.
@pervert
Are you perchance related to Captain America?
I think you two went to the same Troll school
Prayer changes things
Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for but were told it was a possibility.
The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical. The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.
bull sh it
Nope:
In cases where the complication was death with assurance of resurrection on the last day it was obviously an improvement.
Joh 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
INQUIRY: If Dr. Herbert Benson's study concerning prayer is correct, then LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that those three Christians were given to Christ by the Father like the Eleven (John 17), and / or that they saw Him in "that day"...
-–
It's interesting that the word "logic" comes from a lot of naysayers, and yet they don't exercise logic.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till (Gr. heos AN – hypothetical) all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 23:39 – CONDITIONAL
Mat 24:30 – UNCONDITIONAL
IF the generation has been accounted (P), THEN the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations. (Q) Psa 22:28, 30.
Messiah the governor is cut off (~Q) Dan 9:25-26
THEREFORE, NOT the GENERATION has been accounted. (~P)
P -> Q
~Q
├ ~P
VALID REASONING
"If Dr. Herbert Benson's study concerning prayer is correct, then LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that those three Christians were given to Christ by the Father like the Eleven "
It might help if you work on your reading comprehension skills.
'It might help if you work on your reading comprehension skills."
You articulate, or simply say, "I can't refure you logically"
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Did those three Christians see Him on that day? Just answer the question! YES OR NO!!!!
Poor Phillip, you are so lost and lack the skills to comprehend, stop being such a fool and repent for you are wrong.
Phillip Evans,
Which 3 Christians? What are you talking about?
There is NO mention of deaths in this study... only complications post-surgery.