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January 30th, 2012
01:30 PM ET

Islam doesn't justify 'honor murders,' experts insist

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

(CNN) - Zainab Shafia's crime was to run off to marry a man her parents hated. Middle sister Sahar's crime was to wear revealing clothes and have secret boyfriends. Youngest sister Geeti's crime was to do badly in school and call social workers for help dealing with a family home in turmoil.

The punishment for all three teenage Canadian sisters was the same: death.

Their executioner: their brother, acting on instructions from the father to run their car off the road.

Another family member, their father's first wife in a polygamous marriage, was also killed.

Hamed Shafia, his father, Mohammed, and his mother, Tooba Mohammed Yahya, were sentenced to life in prison for murder, with Judge Robert Maranger excoriating their "twisted notion of honor, a notion of honor that is founded upon the domination and control of women, a sick notion of honor that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

Leading Muslim thinkers wholeheartedly endorsed the Canadian judge's verdict, insisting that "honor murders" had no place and no support in Islam.

"There is nothing in the Quran that justifies honor killings. There is nothing that says you should kill for the honor of the family," said Taj Hargey, director of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford in England.

"This idea that 'somehow a girl has besmirched our honor and therefore the thing to do is kill her' is bizarre, and Muslims should stop using this defense," he said, arguing that the practice is cultural, not religious in origin.

"You cannot say this is what Islam approves of. You can say this is what their culture approves of," he said.

The Shafia family is originally from Afghanistan.

Experts say honor murders take place in many parts of the world.

"It's definitely a problem that happens in many different places: the Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh and among immigrant communities in North America," said Nadya Khalife, a researcher on women's rights in the Arab world for Human Rights Watch.

Several Arab countries and territories, including Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Yemen and the Palestinian territories, have laws providing lesser sentences for honor murders than for other murders, Human Rights Watch says.

Egypt and Jordan also have laws that have been interpreted to allow reduced sentences for honor crimes, the group says.

Reliable figures of the number of honor murders are hard to come by, Khalife said, but she pointed to a United Nations Population Fund estimate of 5,000 per year.

Khalife agreed that the practice should not be blamed on Islam.

"It's not linked to religion; it's more cultural," she said. "There have been several Islamic scholars who have issued fatwas against honor killing."

Mohammed Shafia, who denied murder, said himself in court that Islam did not justify honor murders.

"In our religion, a person who kills his wife or daughter, there is nothing more dishonorable," he testified.

But Shafia was heard condemning his dead children in wiretapped conversations played in court.

"May the devil defecate on their graves! This is what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?" he said.

Hargey, the director of the Muslim Educational Centre, said violence was sometimes the result of painful transition.

"Muslims are in a state of flux," he said.

"They are between two worlds: the ancient world and the new technological age," he said. "Women are getting rights and the ability to choose their own spouses. The family in Canada didn't know how to respond to this: the conflict between the discipline of children and the new reality."

Irshad Manji, the author of "Allah, Liberty and Love: Courage to Reconcile Faith and Freedom," said there was another conflict at work in honor murders, a term CNN uses in preference to "honor killings" because the latter phrase does not properly describe the crime.

It is "a tribal tradition that emphasizes the family or the tribe or the community over the individual," she said.

Although the practice may not be Islamic, she said, not all Muslims understand the distinction.

"It is a problem within Islam because of how Muslims often confuse culture and religion," she said. "It's Muslims who have to learn to separate culture and religion. If we don't, Islam will continue to get the bad name that it gets."

But one vocal British campaigner against honor violence points out that not all the crimes are perpetrated by Muslims.

Jasvinder Sanghera, who was the victim of a forced marriage, is not Muslim; she is Sikh.

"Significant cases are happening within South Asian communities, be it Pakistani, Indian, Sikh, Muslim, Kurdish, Iranian, Middle Eastern communities," she said.

"And we have to recognize that because the statistics don't lie. I am not standing here trying to embarrass those communities. But equally, those communities should be ashamed because this is happening in their community and they are not taking a stand," she said.

On the other hand, honor murders are not a problem in Indonesia, which has the world's largest Muslim population.

"No such a practice can be found among Indonesian Muslims," said Azyumardi Azra, the director of the graduate school at the State Islamic University in Jakarta, Indonesia.

" 'Honor killing' is, I believe, a cultural problem among Arab and South Asian Muslims. I don't think that kind of practice has an Islamic basis," he said.

Although women and girls make up the overwhelming number of victims, there have been at least some male victims, including Ahmet Yildiz, a gay Turkish man whose fugitive father is the main suspect in his 2008 shooting death.

Britain has had about a dozen honor murders per year for the past several years, said Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain.

He, too, said the crimes were not justified by Islam.

"This comes from tribal customs where the father - not both parents - see children as their property. A girl decides to marry somebody of whom their parents do not approve, and they conspire and find some way to kill and dispose of this body," he said. "This is a kind of misplaced shame that parents feel that their daughter has decided to marry somebody of her choosing, not theirs."

Britain's Crown Prosecution Service has an expert devoted to prosecuting honor-based violence, Nazir Afzal.

Convicting perpetrators can be difficult, he said.

"There is a wall of silence around this, and people are not prepared to talk," he said.

But Afzal insisted that it was "absolutely important that you bring every single person to justice because you want to deter other people from doing it."

And along with the Islamic scholars and human rights advocates, he rejected out of hand the idea that religion justified it.

"At the end of the day, murder is murder. There is no faith on Earth, no community on Earth that justifies this," he said.

"Abrahamic faiths say 'Thou shalt not kill,' " he pointed out. "At the end of the day, nobody should die for this."

CNN's Paula Newton, Atika Shubert, Bharati Naik, Ashley Hayes, Ivan Watson and Becky Anderson contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Canada • Islam • Violence

soundoff (2,115 Responses)
  1. James V

    "It's not linked to religion; it's more cultural,"
    How ever isn't islam also more than religion, doesn't it also include political agendas?

    January 30, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Aziz

      Political agendas such as what?

      January 31, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
  2. Bentley76

    If these experts fully endorse the verdict and wholeheartedly condemn honor killings, why do they still occur? Why are families so scared of their name being tarnished that they are willing to kill their own family members to keep the name clean? Do these people feel that by killing those who tarnish their family would bring some sort of restored honor to them?
    The reason for this killing is not just absurd, it is downright disgusting- however, it took an honor killing in one of the most tolerant societies in the western hemisphere to bring this epidemic to light- although they've been happening in the US, Britain and the rest of Europe for years, but get very little attention in the media.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      They still occur because the culture is so ingrained into the people that they can not relinquish the belief in the "honor" of their family name, of their tribe and community.

      It was a part of the culture long before the religion came into the mix, and it remains deeply ingrained.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
  3. Muneef

    It is OK and more than justified only for the Chosen People to Kill,assassinate or wipe a whole race when ever they Please...! Whether that was JC or BO of Palestinians....so you Anti Semites shut your faces up otherwise you will be next.. 😉

    January 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Sue

      I suggest you think your utterance of that threat and take it back, Muneef. It is likely criminal in the jurisdiction of this blog.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Muneef

      Sue.
      You might be right but fortunately am not of the Chosen People i am merely a Muslim who is not as allowed as the Chosen People to make any kill so just ignore my post...it was Sarcasm only...

      January 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • Reality

      Solving Muneef's problem:

      from the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi--

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)
      alone."
      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

      January 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Reality

      Muneef,

      One more time for someone who apparently does not remember very well including a complete loss of short term memory:

      The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent and Not So Recent Body Count

      As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

      The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

      ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

      and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

      and more recently

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

      19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

      20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

      21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

      22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

      23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "

      January 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • Jim Weix

      That sounds like a threat. What are you going to do...go beat your wife because you are angry?
      Put some fabric softner in your towel and you will feel better in the morning.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • greg

      easy Sue,we all can speak our minds here,you and your crew have no legality here,so be off with your threats,go to some hawk site where you;ll feel secure,this is open blog no matter how much you report abuse...

      January 30, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • Lucy

      I was wondering when it was going to get about the Joos! What has this got to do with honor killings? By the way, 'honor killings is a majority Muslim phenomenon (over 91%). And it happens in Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Middle East, even in the West Bank and Gaza and now unfortunately because of Muslim immigration in Western lands too.

      And by the way, the example you gave of the man who comes home to find his wife with another man and kills her does not fall in the category of 'honor killing'. That was a crime that happened in the heat of the moment – it is still wrong and should be punished but an 'honor killing' is nearly always a religiously and culturally sanctioned premeditated murder and would involve one or more of the victim's own relatives.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
  4. markjuliansmith

    Islam doesn't justify 'honor murders,' experts insist

    Well I insist as the reality on the ground shows once you determine Other as less as Islam does particularly for women where Man has the right to Tilth women when and where they determine and if they do not submit are authorized to beat them – where does it stop – as we see with the terror against Other and the violence against women it will and does result in the ultimate censure death.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • sa

      You guys are ignorant and grab verses and take them out of context, none of you know the background stories behind what happened when those rulings and things were said. As for wars back in the day, thats how land was conquered. Everyone did it that way, so dont tell me that Muslims fought in a battle and killed this many ppl, Roman catholicism probably killed more ppl then all of those wars combined.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • Bazoing

      When Islamics get to a certain percentage, they start fighting to establish an Islamic government. In Southern Thailand they are a minority, but they are doing this. Likewise in Mindanao, Philippines. They are less than 1/3 of the population in these two places. Their scriptures require this behavior.

      August 20, 2012 at 11:23 pm |
  5. Iman Raul

    You that condemn honor killing, why is it that kiiling this same girl when she was in the womb justifiable?

    HYPOCRITES -shut up!

    January 30, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • Sue

      At early stages in the womb, the enti-ty could not reasonably be considered a "girl". You are forming the question from false premises, but not all of us here are susceptible to your nonsense such as that.

      Furthermore, what belief system is it that you follow, that you are not a hypocrite when you tell others to "shut up"? We have free speech here in the US. Perhaps you aren't aware of that.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Sue the idiot

      What has belief system got to do with justifying killing? are you that obtuse or what?

      January 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Your argument holds no logic.

      An aborted fetus is not a living, breathing girl. It is, at best, a clump of tissue that MAY eventually become a girl. It can not survive outside the womb.

      A teenage girl is capable of independent survival, capable of thought and action independent of her mother.

      Abortion is legal. Murder is not.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Bill

      Abortion is killing life. Now, you may not want to admit it but that does not make it any less of an act.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • Jeff

      @Iman, do you support honor killing?

      January 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • Sue

      Bill, do you think that an embryo is an independent human being?

      January 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • felixelgato

      Right?

      January 30, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • Alli u Akhbar

      – "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" = Quran (9:30)

      January 30, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • utahsang

      Wait just a minute I would have to say that both are murder. In other words there is no justification for either one.

      January 30, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Jim Weix

      I would only approve of an abortion if it was a Muslim male in the womb.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
  6. Get Real

    It is because of islam that all these murders are going on. A religion based on killing those that offend it is no religion of God but of Satan.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      One could say the same of Christianity.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Sashland

      Yep, one 'eatyourwords' just did say that; yet, doesn't make it valid. Facts matter.

      January 31, 2012 at 4:03 am |
  7. Jimbo

    Religion needs to go away. Permanently. In all forms. If I want to read about magic I will go with Harry Potter.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
  8. coder

    its sad what religion and culture will drive a human to do – watching the world community come to grips with instant communication – most of it – unfiltered, and not moderated by any government - Politicians, Dictators, Kinds and Queens all can't control their taxed subjects the same way any longer -- It is for this reason alone, that religion and leaders sought and continue to seek the repression of their slaves, to maintain what they call order...Funny, how as a race, we dont realize, we do not need the elite...for anything

    January 30, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
  9. NONYA

    whatever happened to "you are grounded for 2 weeks, no tv, no cell phone, you get to clean the house top to bottom"
    how nice is to have your new born in your arms and say "HI baby, one day i'll show you what honor killing is"
    and sing a lullaby to sleep...
    sick and disgusting not even animals do this to their pups

    January 30, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Bill

      What about all those animals that kill a innocent life inside the womb? no different eh?

      January 30, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Anon

      Bill you're retarded.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • CheesyGorditaCrunch

      Well, obviously you dont know much about animals. Hamsters often eat their young unless they are separated from their mothers after birth. Ha! I am just being a jerk, but really though, these girls didn't deserve to die. They should have just been punished through the use of good old fashioned Corporal punishment. My parents used to beat the crap out of me, and I turned out just fine (pay my taxes, work hard in oil & gas, working on my MS and other accomplishments I care not to mention).

      January 30, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
  10. hippypoet

    honor murders have nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with the culture – but why use ones head when others are losing theres! reasoning – the culture has existed long before the religion But again, using ones head can be painful, so best leave it to those who know how!

    January 30, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
  11. Anon

    All three Abrahamic desert blood cults endorse honor killings, but it's more noticeable in Islam.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
  12. amust

    Honor killing is purely killing/murder. it has noting to do with Islam or Muslims in general. there is no place in isalm for killing anyone excpet if it is a punishment for killing someone.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • mrrp25

      Was 911 an honour killing?? It had wide spread support in the Moslem world!!

      January 30, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • OhMyStars42

      @mrrp25 – Are you a muslim? How do you know that was supported in the "muslim world"? I'm not even a muslim and I'm offended by your statement. September 11th was a horrible event, yes, but it was not supported by your average everyday muslim. They were probably just as devastated as you were so get over it.

      January 31, 2012 at 1:53 am |
  13. AClearWarningToThoseWhoUnderstand

    @Stormfront: O you who have believed, AVOID MUCH [NEGATIVE] ASSUMPTION. Indeed, SOME ASSUMPTION IS SIN. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful. (Quran 49:12)

    The right of passing judgment and punishment belongs to God. The duty of a Muslim is to spread God's message.

    Yahdikum Allah

    January 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • sunday

      @a clearwarning to thosewhounderstand
      i bet from your post you are a muslim, my question to you is that from the verse of the quaran you have just quoted, does the verse make a any sense to you? i believe that if you are wise enough you would realise that your religion is fake and false, begotten from a murderous prophet! i am not surprised at all by crimes perpetuated by muslims or by any other religion, because those who believe in religion are fools!!

      January 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Stormfront

      @AClearWarningToThoseWhoUnderstand: Sorry, I'm not a muslim, I'm not bound by your dogma. But see, this is the whole problem. "Let us into your countries, let us r-a-p-e and murder your women and men. Let us take over and invoke Sharia law on your people and your country and just bow down and take it." No thank you. My country is free, and I will make sure it remains so, even if it costs me my life.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
  14. myweightinwords

    Religion, any religion, when it becomes entangled with cultural and patriotic tradition, ceases to be that which it once was.

    It is difficult to separate what is the religion and what is not because it is all belief, deeply held convictions.

    I would point out, however to those who claim that Islam holds the corner on "honor killing" that the old testament of the bible declares that disobedient children are to be stoned. It would be very easy to mix that bit of religion into the same cultural bias that middle Eastern Muslims hold to come out with the same result. Or worse.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
  15. WSV

    Just to add to my last post, if the crimes had occurred after December 2, 2011 the minimum time for parole would have been carried out consecutively instead of the old concurrent system under which this case was conducted.

    Therefore, instead of waiting 25 years for the chance of parole, the murderers would have had to wait FOUR TIMES 25 YEARS = 100 YEARS before being eligible for parole. Life will mean life and then some.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
  16. extinct eagle

    honor killing, stoning of women are non islamic...no mention of it in the quran. Plain and Simple. These are cultural misuse of the religion to subjugate the masses. Similar to the spanish inquisition and the witch hunts. does christiniaty endorse those?

    January 30, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Silver

      You tell that to the Taliban and Islamists who regularly murder or maim women and young girls in all parts of the world just because they dress in non-Islamic tradition or they try to go to school or go to work. What you people say and write mean nothing because as the West has learned in the past hundreds of years, the ways of Arabs and Islamists is to lie without shame or remorse because all non-Muslims are sub-human. In fact, even fellow Muslims are fair game for violence and murder so long as it serves to promote power and subservience to the local Muslim cleric.

      January 30, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • Akhbar u All

      Google – “Honor Killing” is Absolutely Islamic by Syed Kamran Mirza –
      It quotes verse after verse after verse straight from the QURAN showing that this practice IS ISLAM approved actions.

      http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm

      January 30, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
  17. WSV

    Clarification for CNN: the Canadian legal system is as such, a conviction on First Degree Murder does not have optional sentencing rules and there is no judicial discretion. The crime has its particular penalty, and nothing else.

    In this case, the sentencing hearing is a formality because all First Degree Murder convictions are given the same sentence throughout the country (we have only one Criminal Code in Canada, unlike the US system of state laws and federal law). As such, the only sentence can be: LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE FOR 25 YEARS. There is no chance of mitigating the penalty!

    The son will no get special treatment, unlike what the reporter Paula Newton in the video said. She obviously has no idea about Canadian law. He has been convicted of FOUR FIRST DEGREE MURDER counts and will receive no less than LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE FOR 25 YEARS.

    Please remember, these were three defendants each convicted of committing FOUR MURDERS. All murderers were tried together, each for four crimes that took place.

    Why is CNN being so inaccurate on this case? Both the written report and the video report are beyond inaccurate.

    In case anyone actually wanted accurate information about this case and its outcome, my post has provided you with the insight you need.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
  18. WSV

    Clarification for CNN: the Canadian legal system is as such, a conviction on First Degree Murder does not have optional sentencing rules and there is no judicial discretion. The crime has its particular penalty, and nothing else.

    In this case, the sentencing hearing is a formality because all First Degree Murder convictions are given the same sentence throughout the country (we have only one Criminal Code in Canada, unlike the US system of state laws and federal law). As such, the only sentence can be: LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE FOR 25 YEARS. There is no chance of mitigating the penalty!

    The son will no get special treatment, unlike what the reporter Paula Newton in the video said. She obviously has no idea about Canadian law. He has been convicted of FOUR FIRST DEGREE MURDER counts and will receive no less than LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE FOR 25 YEARS.

    Please remember, these were three defendants each convicted of committing FOUR MURDERS. All murderers were tried together, each for four crimes that took place.

    Why is CNN being so inaccurate on this case? Both the written report and the video report are beyond inaccurate.

    In case anyone actually wanted accurate information about this case and its outcome, my post has provided you with the insight you need. You can read more from accurate Canadian news sources.

    January 30, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
  19. JohnR

    It IS a cultural thing in the sense that the practice predates Islam and is seen in many non-Islamic countries. Indeed, in the west, killing your wife and her lover if she was having an affair was for a long time essentially legal in many places. What can be pinned on Islam is an insufficient effort to stamp it out!

    January 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Exactly! If "honor killings" were a part of Islam, wouldn't it make sense that the vast majority of these killings would be where there are mostly Muslims? The Asia-Pacific region of the world has about 62% of the world's population of Muslims...but you do not hear about these "honor killings" there like you do in the Middle East that has only 20% of the Muslim population.
      It is cultural and not religious!

      January 30, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @Uncouth Swain: You said, "The Asia-Pacific region of the world has about 62% of the world's population of Muslims...but you do not hear about these "honor killings" there like you do in the Middle East that has only 20% of the Muslim population."

      You're forgetting the first rule of honor killings...do not talk about honor killings.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Even if that rule was out there...we would still hear more about it in a region that has three times the amount of Muslims than the Middle East. Unless their is some scientific reason you care to share that says why a SE Asian Muslim can keep their mouths shut better than that of a Middle Eastern Muslim.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • face

      isn't it still legal in parts of central/south america to kill an unfaithful wife? Regardless, there is no honour to be gained in any killing, no matter the reason. An honour killing is pure vanity, those who follow Islam should put Allah first, and not the family honour and how they are viewed by others.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      The second rule of honor killings: if it's your first night, you must honor kill honorably.
      The third rule of honor killings: DO NOT TALK ABOUT HONOR KILLINGS.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Akhbar u All

      Google – “Honor Killing” is Absolutely Islamic by Syed Kamran Mirza –
      verse straight from the QURAN showing that this practice IS ISLAM approved actions.

      http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm

      January 30, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      This isn't Fight Club sean

      January 30, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
  20. randal103

    "On the path to Islam...even the trees die."

    January 30, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • amust

      where is that coming from.

      January 30, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • WakeUpCall

      Funny you mention that when islam specifically prohibits the destruction of trees and killing of livestock even during war.... Cant say the same for zionists who are famous for plowing entire fields and destroying homes belonging to palestinians...

      January 30, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Sameer

      There is no religion more brutual than Christianity look at the facts, slavery, abuse of blacks, hanging of blacks or linching and then they were directly or indirectly forced to Christianity by Christians who were majority whites. They did the same to Mexico. The poor blacks don't even know. they still have slave mentality.

      January 30, 2012 at 10:25 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.