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January 30th, 2012
01:30 PM ET

Islam doesn't justify 'honor murders,' experts insist

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

(CNN) - Zainab Shafia's crime was to run off to marry a man her parents hated. Middle sister Sahar's crime was to wear revealing clothes and have secret boyfriends. Youngest sister Geeti's crime was to do badly in school and call social workers for help dealing with a family home in turmoil.

The punishment for all three teenage Canadian sisters was the same: death.

Their executioner: their brother, acting on instructions from the father to run their car off the road.

Another family member, their father's first wife in a polygamous marriage, was also killed.

Hamed Shafia, his father, Mohammed, and his mother, Tooba Mohammed Yahya, were sentenced to life in prison for murder, with Judge Robert Maranger excoriating their "twisted notion of honor, a notion of honor that is founded upon the domination and control of women, a sick notion of honor that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

Leading Muslim thinkers wholeheartedly endorsed the Canadian judge's verdict, insisting that "honor murders" had no place and no support in Islam.

"There is nothing in the Quran that justifies honor killings. There is nothing that says you should kill for the honor of the family," said Taj Hargey, director of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford in England.

"This idea that 'somehow a girl has besmirched our honor and therefore the thing to do is kill her' is bizarre, and Muslims should stop using this defense," he said, arguing that the practice is cultural, not religious in origin.

"You cannot say this is what Islam approves of. You can say this is what their culture approves of," he said.

The Shafia family is originally from Afghanistan.

Experts say honor murders take place in many parts of the world.

"It's definitely a problem that happens in many different places: the Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh and among immigrant communities in North America," said Nadya Khalife, a researcher on women's rights in the Arab world for Human Rights Watch.

Several Arab countries and territories, including Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Yemen and the Palestinian territories, have laws providing lesser sentences for honor murders than for other murders, Human Rights Watch says.

Egypt and Jordan also have laws that have been interpreted to allow reduced sentences for honor crimes, the group says.

Reliable figures of the number of honor murders are hard to come by, Khalife said, but she pointed to a United Nations Population Fund estimate of 5,000 per year.

Khalife agreed that the practice should not be blamed on Islam.

"It's not linked to religion; it's more cultural," she said. "There have been several Islamic scholars who have issued fatwas against honor killing."

Mohammed Shafia, who denied murder, said himself in court that Islam did not justify honor murders.

"In our religion, a person who kills his wife or daughter, there is nothing more dishonorable," he testified.

But Shafia was heard condemning his dead children in wiretapped conversations played in court.

"May the devil defecate on their graves! This is what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?" he said.

Hargey, the director of the Muslim Educational Centre, said violence was sometimes the result of painful transition.

"Muslims are in a state of flux," he said.

"They are between two worlds: the ancient world and the new technological age," he said. "Women are getting rights and the ability to choose their own spouses. The family in Canada didn't know how to respond to this: the conflict between the discipline of children and the new reality."

Irshad Manji, the author of "Allah, Liberty and Love: Courage to Reconcile Faith and Freedom," said there was another conflict at work in honor murders, a term CNN uses in preference to "honor killings" because the latter phrase does not properly describe the crime.

It is "a tribal tradition that emphasizes the family or the tribe or the community over the individual," she said.

Although the practice may not be Islamic, she said, not all Muslims understand the distinction.

"It is a problem within Islam because of how Muslims often confuse culture and religion," she said. "It's Muslims who have to learn to separate culture and religion. If we don't, Islam will continue to get the bad name that it gets."

But one vocal British campaigner against honor violence points out that not all the crimes are perpetrated by Muslims.

Jasvinder Sanghera, who was the victim of a forced marriage, is not Muslim; she is Sikh.

"Significant cases are happening within South Asian communities, be it Pakistani, Indian, Sikh, Muslim, Kurdish, Iranian, Middle Eastern communities," she said.

"And we have to recognize that because the statistics don't lie. I am not standing here trying to embarrass those communities. But equally, those communities should be ashamed because this is happening in their community and they are not taking a stand," she said.

On the other hand, honor murders are not a problem in Indonesia, which has the world's largest Muslim population.

"No such a practice can be found among Indonesian Muslims," said Azyumardi Azra, the director of the graduate school at the State Islamic University in Jakarta, Indonesia.

" 'Honor killing' is, I believe, a cultural problem among Arab and South Asian Muslims. I don't think that kind of practice has an Islamic basis," he said.

Although women and girls make up the overwhelming number of victims, there have been at least some male victims, including Ahmet Yildiz, a gay Turkish man whose fugitive father is the main suspect in his 2008 shooting death.

Britain has had about a dozen honor murders per year for the past several years, said Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain.

He, too, said the crimes were not justified by Islam.

"This comes from tribal customs where the father - not both parents - see children as their property. A girl decides to marry somebody of whom their parents do not approve, and they conspire and find some way to kill and dispose of this body," he said. "This is a kind of misplaced shame that parents feel that their daughter has decided to marry somebody of her choosing, not theirs."

Britain's Crown Prosecution Service has an expert devoted to prosecuting honor-based violence, Nazir Afzal.

Convicting perpetrators can be difficult, he said.

"There is a wall of silence around this, and people are not prepared to talk," he said.

But Afzal insisted that it was "absolutely important that you bring every single person to justice because you want to deter other people from doing it."

And along with the Islamic scholars and human rights advocates, he rejected out of hand the idea that religion justified it.

"At the end of the day, murder is murder. There is no faith on Earth, no community on Earth that justifies this," he said.

"Abrahamic faiths say 'Thou shalt not kill,' " he pointed out. "At the end of the day, nobody should die for this."

CNN's Paula Newton, Atika Shubert, Bharati Naik, Ashley Hayes, Ivan Watson and Becky Anderson contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Canada • Islam • Violence

soundoff (2,115 Responses)
  1. Makes Sense

    Honor killings? This is a bunch of BS. Most religions recognize that killing someone or something is a sin. Honor killing is just an excuse for living up to a man duties to raise his children properly!!!!

    January 30, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Yesorno

      Christian kill for the sport of it. Look at history and look at the present. There is your gift, the devil is in the details.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • Mel

      Muneef,
      Sorry, that is no excuse and still must be punished. And no, there are a vast majority of people who find out a spouse is cheating and don't kill them....it's not having "dead feelings" it's called using self control and being a sane person.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
  2. The Prophet Mohammed

    x

    January 30, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
  3. dalevanh

    If the Muslims around the world call upon their religious leaders to issue a fatwa explicitly condemning honour killings, and if their imams have the courage to do so, then perhaps the rest of the world would believe you. As it stands, all we see is only talk and no action.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
  4. skarphace

    There are very many hypocrites when it comes to the issue of Islam. On the one hand, they critisize the leaders of Islam for not coming out and condemning atrocities committed by Muslims. However, when they do come out and do so, these same people critisize the leaders and say that they are just covering up for Muslims and trying to make Islam look more peaceful than it actually is.

    Which way do you want it, folks? Do you want the leaders of Islam to condemn such acts, or not? It would seem to me that you don't want them to so that you can continue to demonize all Muslims for the acts of a few. This is hypocracy at it's finest.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • dalevanh

      Could you state some real incidents where this has happened.

      The problem muslim leaders have when condemning atrocities or incidents in the name of islam, is that they are almost always qualified with a "...but.." or "...however...".
      Examples where this type of rhetoric was seen was after the 911 attacks, the London underground bombing, the deaths threats against the the Danish cartoonist and Salman Rushdie, the Spanish rail bombing, etc.
      My point here is that, to many people they come across as being insincere when they qualify their statements as such. So the questions begs, who are the real hypocrites?

      January 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • skarphace

      dalevanh: read the article. There is your 'instance'.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Lucy

      Which is it? It is easy. For the Western Kuffirs, they come out and speak about love and peace and how women are respected in Islam and amongst themselves it is business as usual. Check out "Kitman" and "Taqiyya'.

      The same way Arafat used to talk about peace to the Media and during peace talks, but amongst his own people he would rouse the rebels to commit terrorism. He did not figure that some would actual be able to understand and translate from Arabic.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
  5. RossTrex

    So reading the MANY statements Mohammed made about women. In the Hadith he compared them to dogs and donkeys. In the Koran he calls for death to female poets who mock him. When captured on the battlefield we have numerous passages in the Koran and Hadith treating women as spoils and not human beings. Mohammed supported and participated in slavery. He used and abused them when ever and where ever he could. Mohammed is very clear from his actions his real intentions and real thoughts regarding women. The Koran may have a few passages that tell men to protect and love women but Islam as a whole and the Koran when taken in its entirety does not protect women or even treat them as equal with men.

    What the Muslim author above is conveniently ignoring is Honor Killings in Islamic Countries are almost entirely exclusive to females. Male Muslims are in general not put to death for marrying the wrong girl or rebelling against their parents. The only time males meet the same fate as these poor girls is when they convert from Islam to another religion.

    The double speak that comes from Islam has always been a pervasive pattern of misinformation and misdirection. You will always be able to find a Muslim that will tell you that what other Muslims just did is not supported by Islam. Even when it happens each and every day among Muslim families the world over. The same goes for terrorism and that is why Islam cannot be a religion of peace as it claims to be.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • skarphace

      And even in the good old USA it took until 1920 for women to have the right to vote. Even longer for minorities.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • Edwin

      I think you missed the point where the author mentioned that honor killings are done by MANY religious groups, all in certain areas of the world.

      You are right: virtually all honor killings are men killing women in their family groups. It is a form of dominance over women. But that argument does not connect it to Islam any more than it connects it to Christianity.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Shahid

      Rosetrexx you have to be an idiot when you mention hadith and you do not give any reference! stop this hatred toward Islam, honor killings are part of Afghan culture, it is practiced even in India.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Randy Johnson

      I think I get it now. Its almost like people that read the Bible and take it literally as truth. Just like that wacko Baptist church that thinks god hates gays so much that America is being punished with dead soldiers.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Kat

      who made you an expert in Islam? sounds like you're copying and pasting frmo Islamphobic hate mongering sites.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • RossTrex

      Edwin Please give me one instance where ACTUAL Christians committed an Honor Killing. I will need a real occurance with real Christians not some fiction created to support your fantasy. This is a pervasive pattern in Islam I missed nothing.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • RossTrex

      One passage that supports what I am saying.... And of course right on time some Muslim appologist will say it is not true and it doesn't mean that or call me names.... sad...

      Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: –... I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you–." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "(Q-2.282) Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence" -– (Sahih Bukhari).

      January 30, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Kat

      Ross, that's not worse than the Old & New Testicles views on women. They include prayers for men to recite every morning thanking him for not making them women. The bible for example says a virgin woman must marry her rapist, women do not inherit, must remain silent in worship, owned by their fathers and husbands, must be secluded during their period, caused Adam's fall, birth pangs is their ultimate punishment and many other dehumanizing teahcings about women.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • Kat

      Honor killing exists among Christian communities in the Middle East and south Asia and their immigrants in the west.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      That's one way of looking at it Kat.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Binyamin

      I pray for a world without dirty pedophile worshipping muslims

      January 30, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
  6. Cgainz

    Forget life sentence, send them to the gallows, that will soon break them from this stupid, backward way of life. As they choke at the end of a rope with their swelling tongue gagging them, they're realize just before they drop into hell "my what a dumb-F was I".............

    January 30, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  7. Shahid

    Honor killings has more to do with culture and less or nothing to do with Islam! ISLAM is a religion of peace. I request everybody to study themselves before believing this hypocrite media, use your brains!

    January 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Lucy

      Repeating a lie often enough and people start to believe despite all evidence to the contrary. Stop the 'taqiyya', Islam is as Islam does and from what the world has seen it is definitely a blood-thirsty misoogynistic cult.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • Harsh Reality

      Lucy is right. And I'll repeat:

      "Islam" has everything to with it. The leader of the islamic religion, mohammed, murdered his owm grandson for a matter of "honor". Muslims see him as the guy to emulate. With role models who murder for honor, well, need I say more? He did set the example, after all. (and a bad one it was)

      January 30, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • dalevanh

      Shahid
      Robert Spencer a leading expert on Islam has this to say.
      "It is no accident or coincidence that Muslims commit 91 percent of honor killings worldwide. A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law."

      Robert Spencer is only the messenger, so check the reference yourself you might learn why this practice is so prevalent in mostly islamic cultures.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • yav

      Relegion of Peace, use your brain first. Look at the entire stretch of muslim world middle east to bangladesh and philliphines. tell which country is peaceful where muslims live? with exceptions of Qatar and brunei where foregin workers do slaves job. tell me one non oil-producing islamic nation which is not instigating home grown terrorism and exporting it?

      January 30, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
  8. Jim Weix

    Allah was a pervert that favored little girls and his followers sick in the head.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Sameer

      I am sure you and christians brothers belong to the family of black killers during slavery.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • louise

      @sameer–you are still bringing up the crusades and any other thing that you can grasp to justify your actions against those who don't conform to your beliefs...much like a control issue isn't it?

      January 30, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Harsh Reality

      Speaking of crusades, we need to Bring Back The Crusades!

      January 30, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Harsh Reality

      Oh, and allah wasn't the pervert (he was an incorporael being. . .). It was mohammed that was the pedophile. Not to mention his many other crimes, "honor killing" is but one. (his own grandson!!)

      January 30, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
  9. john80

    Let's put our brains and common sense aside and analyze books written thousands of years ago by people who lived in a different time when life barely resembled what it is now and doing brutal things was considered normal. Let's find the answers to our morality that way. Should work out great.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
  10. NTI

    Hey everyone,

    Don't trust what anyone (including the deceiving 'experts') tell you about Islam. Go learn about Islam for yourself. The best way to learn about Islam and what it means to non-Muslims you need learn about Sharia. There is a great book, well written, well researched and easy to read book on Sharia – "Sharia for Non-Muslims". The cool thing is that they made this book available free of cost as an online pdf!!! Here is the link:

    http://www.politicalislam.com/pdf/WebSitePDF/ShariaNonMuslim.pdf

    January 30, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Edwin

      Actually, the best way to learn about Islam is through muslims. Internet sources are usually biased, promoting agendas or asking for money. They are as trustworthy as the proverbial Snake Oil Salesmen.

      If you really want to understand a religion, talk to its followers. THEY are the ones who practice it. THEY are the ones who ACTUALLY understand it. Go to some of their services. Ask questions. Be polite and respectful. It may take a little while, but you will come to know Islam in a way news stories and sound bites can never tell you.

      You will probably not find a new path to salvation or anything... but you may discover that the bogeyman is not really what you thought it was - instead, it is just people who worship differently than you.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • skarphace

      Very good response, Edwin. As an example of your 'biased' Internet sources, you only have to look at NTI's link. PoliticalIslam. The name says it all.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
  11. Stormfront

    when will whites stop accepting the self hatred mantra given out by the media?

    January 30, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • dalevanh

      Stormfront
      Whatever you have been smoking, give it up. It is messing with your head.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      As soon as non-whites stop proving that mantra correct time and again....

      January 30, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Stormfront

      @dalevanh: all I smoke is cigarettes. Sport is the brand.

      @Freethinker: huh? we're the best alive.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
  12. Karen

    Nothing to see people, just some muslims desperately trying to do some damage control, as can be expected after such a high profile case.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • kit8

      Assuming your logic holds true then Christians would still be doing damage control because of Hitler. Mohammed Shafia is a sad excuse for a human being and his actions has anything to do with religion.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
  13. bla bla bla

    This just goes to show how twisted the Muslims are and that they have no place in modern society

    January 30, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Yesorno

      This is the religion we need in the USA. This is true religion. It keep your kids in check and your women a women.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Randy Johnson

      Thats the whole problem – if you could somehow magically transport them out of the dark ages maybe things could work out ok.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • Edwin

      I'm thinking none of you actually read the article.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
  14. Nunuv

    Meanwhile, a woman in Afghanistan is murdered by her husband for giving birth to a third girl instead of a boy. The irony, of course, is that it is the man who determines the gender of the child. Good grief.

    January 30, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Alfredo

      True

      January 30, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Jim Weix

      And we are fighting there to save lives? Good grief. Evacuate the women and children, then let the camel humpers kill themselves

      January 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Edwin

      Jim, your complete ignorance is showing... camels are in the Arab parts of the world, not Afghanistan. There are some north of Afghanistan, in Mongolia and Khasakstan...

      January 30, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • louise

      @nunuv........wonder if sameer is of the same mind set

      January 30, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      EDWIN: Who cares? His goal was not to author a scientifically accurate nature show on the migration of camels. If it bothers you that much, just replace "camel" with "goat" when you read his post....

      January 30, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • dalevanh

      Not according to islamic science.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Muneef

      Camals extends from east and north Africa to borders of China and Russia... !

      January 30, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
  15. b4bigbang

    cantilever: "Other point: Until very recently, 'honor killings' were a regular phenomenon in the Christian world. Sicily is an example. So is Armenia, which shares part of the *culture* of Afghanistan"

    And yet another Christian giving a self-loathing comment.

    January 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Edwin

      Maybe so, but it is still true.

      ... but why is posting historical truths, in your mind, a form of self-loathing?

      January 30, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • RossTrex

      So I read this comment and went Ohhh lets fact check this.... As usuall it is yet another fantasy attempting to villify Christians and support Islam. Any religion that inspires people to go to a chat board and post lies to support it, could not be anyting other than a false religion and a construct of man.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
  16. Guy

    Link between clouds, rain?

    January 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • scir91onYouTube

      no, it rains in my shower and clouds are a blanket for the sun so it can stay cozy and warm

      January 30, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Edwin

      Perhaps you missed the parts of the article where it explained the topic. I know, the author used big words, but try to think beyond simplistic and wrong stereotypes.

      Honor killings are not a part of Islam. They ARE a part of several areas of the world, including some where Islam is dominant (and some where it is not). Honor killings do still occur in religions like christianity, but not (to my knowledge) in Europe or the United States.

      Basically, honor killing is a cultural thing not strongly related to religion. No large, organized religion condones honor killings - not even Islam.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Randy Johnson

      Good analogy – just like Islam is 'peaceful' but if you draw a cartoon of Muhammed they immediately threaten you with death. Duh – I wish they could explain that to me.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Lucy

      Edwin, it is culture that makes a religion and religion influences culture. It is Islamic Cultlure and "Honor Killings' are without exception an Islamic phenomenon and little wonder, seeing the misogyny in the Koran that condones wife beatings and gives the father the power of life and death over his children, most especially girl children and women relatives. You cannot whitewash the truth.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Edwin

      Lucy,

      I have only read snippets of the Qu'ran, so I cannot comment on its misogyny, but I do know many parts of the Bible that are quite mysogynistic. I think most (if not all) holy books tend to do that.

      As far as culture and religion, your argument would be sound if it were the muslim people of those areas that did all the honor killings. Instead, it is endemic to most or all of the religions of the area - not primarily Islam. On the other hand, muslims in other areas of the world (not counting immigrants from those areas) do not condone such practices.

      These two facts support the argument that it is specifically OTHER parts of the culture that support honor killings. Religion IS intertwined with other aspects of culture - which is why it is so hard for many people to separate the two.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Lucy

      Edwin, I agree that in the Bible there are some verses that are not to very pro-woman but nowhere in the Bible does it instruct husbands to beat their wives. That practice is prohibited in Judiasim and Christ was all about love and turning the other cheek and forgiveness (he stopped the stonning of the adulteress).

      But the crucial difference between the Bible and the Koran is that Jews and Christians do not regards their scriptures as the inviolate and inalienable word of God. However Muslims regard the Koran as the unalterable word of Allah as dictated to Muhammed and it stands as it is for all times (and in fact it cannot really be translated and the correct way to read it is in its original Arabic). Therefore Islam can NEVER ever have a Reformation like Christianity for example. The consequence is that the Koran and the life of Muhammed are to be emmulated by Muslim men since he is regarded as the 'perfect man'.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
  17. ari

    "it's not religious, it's just cultural." except for the fact that it happens in cultures that have nothing to do with each other other than the fact that they're both predominantly muslim, and that this sort of thing seems to be nearly exclusive to muslim nations or people originally from muslim nations. but it's totally not religious.

    lol, okay CNN.

    as a side note:

    "This comes from tribal customs where the father – not both parents – see children as their property."

    this isn't a "tribal custom", it's a tenent of islam. fathers are allowed to marry off their daughters to whomever they want. one of mohammed's many wives was aisha, who was "given" to him by her father at the ripe age of six. two other of his wives were slaves. women are property in islam. why deny it?

    Quran 4:34 "Men are in charge of women, as Allah has made the men to excel over the women, and because they spend their money to the support their women. Thus good women are obedient, guarding the body which Allah has created. For those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to a separate bed, and beat them."

    January 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • Edwin

      ... except that you missed the parts of the article that clearly show honor killings amongst non-muslim communities. And the parts where major muslim countries like Indonesia have NO honor killings.

      Your logic is sort of like this: serial killers eat corn - pretty much all of them do; and none killed before they tasted corn; therefore, corn is clearly related to a serial killer's desire to kill.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Lovleen Multani

      Did you get that last part out of your ass honey? Perhaps you should actually try reading the "real" Quran and not a twisted version that you christians made.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      Ummm...that came straight from the Quran, LOVLEEN....

      January 30, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
  18. ghanima

    WOW... Cant believe what im reading....theres a whole lot of Racist talk goin on....i admit the eastern countrys are messed up n the culture is way twisted but did everyone forget were all the same HUMAN BEINGS.... And there are many genuine, kind,normal muslims, islamic etc i just wish peaple would adapt with the times not stuck in the ice ages......oh well what can u do .....oh and im a firm atheist

    January 30, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Lucy

      Wrong, wrong, worng. Islam is not a race. It is the 'religion of piece(s)' Kaboo!

      January 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • austeve

      lol you tell people to stop being racist then you say you know they are messed up and twisted???? back to the ice age????

      January 30, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
  19. Muneef

    Is it true that the eating of Pigs Meat kills the jealousy in men? Is it true that who ever consumes the same wouldn't mind acting like a pimp for his mother,wife,sisters,daughters ?

    No wonder Muslims have much more jealousy than those others consuming such forbidden Pigs meats that been mentioned in all the known Holy Books...no wonder JC upon returen to Earth will start with killing all Pigs whether Animals or Humans...!

    January 30, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      "Is it true that the eating of Pigs Meat kills the jealousy in men?" Nope, but I heard that men who are jealous of their daughters are pigs.

      "Is it true that who ever consumes the same wouldn't mind acting like a pimp for his mother,wife,sisters,daughters ?" Are you speaking on behalf of the man who was involved in a polygamous marriage with two women? Who is the pimp again? Have you ever heard the western saying: "Don't throw bricks when you live in a glass house"?

      "No wonder Muslims have much more jealousy than those others consuming such forbidden Pigs meats that been mentioned in all the known Holy Books..." I would be jealous of everyone else too if the only thing I was allowed to eat was rice and curry....

      "no wonder JC upon returen to Earth will start with killing all Pigs whether Animals or Humans...!"

      He will probably start with the pigs who murder their own flesh and blood loved ones....and wear suicide vests into public marketplaces on a daily basis....

      January 30, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • Muneef

      Guess we will have to wait and see...
      Any way was talking about Honor and Jealousy where if made well understood and handled properly from beginning it would not reach in to killing... Since killing happen only when some one desperately has lost control over situation and self as a sign of weakness and not strength.

      If those women are not raised up religiously and with self respect then Satan would play them down to earth into dishonoring them selves and their families...

      By the way as Muslims we are allowed to marry 4 women if can afford it financially and physically...that is to make it up for us not to seek women out of our marriage circle, while others who are not allowed more than one wife have more outer marriage relation and maybe more children out of those than their own wives...!

      January 30, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      "Any way was talking about Honor and Jealousy where if made well understood and handled properly from beginning it would not reach in to killing... Since killing happen only when some one desperately has lost control over situation and self as a sign of weakness and not strength."

      I agree, but that is the essence of the issue– this type of "lost control over the situation" seems to happen all too frequently in teh middle east, and we would be remiss to not acknowlege that. And whenever it does happen, the perp always claims it as their Islamic rite to do as they please with their loved ones.

      "If those women are not raised up religiously and with self respect then Satan would play them down to earth into dishonoring them selves and their families..."

      What you consider "dishonoring themselves" most of the civilized world interprets as them excercising their inalienable right to freedom and the pursuit of happiness on their own terms. Sad that you live in such a Bronze-Aged society that a woman choosing the manner of her own attire, musical tastes, or romantic choices is considered "Satan playing them down". You are a perfect example of the mentality that causes such a tragedy to occur.

      "By the way as Muslims we are allowed to marry 4 women if can afford it financially and physically"

      And you are still wondering where this blatant disrespect for women originates from? Your society sees women as property, and as a result, allow them no opportunities to excel. How many of those women, confined to a life of subservience to some jealous monster of a man, could have been leading doctors, lawyers, scholars, teachers, scientists, authors, activists– you know, the people that are responsible for your society's progress (or lack thereof), but never will realize their full potential or benefit to society due to your archaic prejudices? THAT is one big reason why western culture is superior to Muslim culture– we don't turn 35% of our nation's greatest asset (its people)into indentured kitchen servants.....

      January 30, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Muneef

      FR33.
      You do not understand the concept of family and family name in our cultures so why you compare us to you... You have no family concept at all... Family to you means father,mother,brothers&sisters... While for us it is much more larger than that and living all in one area,village or city... So no compression at all.

      We treasure our women and are considered to be the crown on our heads and the teachers of our born generations therefore I do not agree about being as cattles...

      Women with husbands are much luckier than those enslaved in s-ex slavery which no one speaks of and trying to hide the facts about it...the attacks families are facing and the encouragement of women re-bel is only in favor of increasing the business of s-ex slavery...so who is treating women like cattle or property..husbands or pimps...?   

      January 30, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
  20. Jim Weix

    " 'Honor killing' is, I believe, a cultural problem among Arab and South Asian Muslims."

    So why not eliminate every Arab or South Asian male over the age of 15? Put a bounty on them. Pay $10 bucks for every towel turned in and $5 dollar bonus if the beard is attached. The younger males left would be raised by women and might evolve into something human.

    I'm tired of reading about Muslim women being hanged, beheaded, stoned, or imprisoned.

    January 30, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Sameer

      You must be a white! and your father and grand father must have killed a lot of blacks

      January 30, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Muneef

      Save your efforts and just don't read or easily just go blind and can deafen your self so you wouldn't hear about them as well...!

      January 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Lucy

      Hey Sameer

      I think that you are wrong in this. Islam is not a race but a cult – a death cult. Bosnian and Russian Muslims are white, so that defeats your stupid argument.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Alex

      Guess what Sameer us white people learned from our ancestors that's more to say then the Middle Eastern and South Asia's backwards retarded cultures. Though progress is slow it's because our culture is becoming more open minded and secular. Our redneck's children are becoming more educated, while other parts of the world want to follow such great traditions like this which is continued because of the ultra religious isn't educated in their own religions, rational logic and common sense or they would already be deists or atheists, with more understanding of religious texts.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Stormfront

      @Sameer: I'm white, and if anyone in my family's ever killed a black, it's so far back in the dawn of history that nobody would know, especially not me. Nice try though. No white guilters allowed.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      Slavery ended in America back in 1860 (unlike the middle east, where it is still common practice), Sameer and Muneef. No American alive had a father or grandfather that owned black slaves. Thosands of WHITE Americans died in the civil war to free blacks and keep a unified nation (to give perspective, 300,000 Americans died in the FIRST HOUR of the Battle of Gettysburg, while only 5000 have died in the last 10 years fighting Islamic terrorists). It took our cutlure only two centuries to give women and minorities the rights they are due, while 2000 years into its existence, Islam is still allowing for fathers to slaughter their own daughters out of pure narcissism and chauvenism.

      January 30, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Muneef

      It is not about being dark or white am sure you will find honor killings among Arab Christians as well or Greek,Cypriots Christian orthodoxs...
      Actully have just received an E.Mail about a non Muslim Indian who found his wife cheating on him and have slaughtered her head off and took it to the police station handing him self in...

      So you see as humans we are all concerned with honor but just woner why are few here are in denial ...!

      January 30, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Muneef

      FR33
      Stop saying rubbish Islam has freed people from slavery 1400 years ago before yours... We do not agree for honor killings but at the time of anger the weakest lose self control which you call insanity of the moment...am sure if you had a gun on you and found your wife on bed with some one else...you will not stop for thinking about right and wrong...unless you have dead feelings and mind not...!

      January 30, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • RossTrex

      Muneef – Slaves were sold in Mecca as late as 1925. It took the British Empire to finally put a stop to it with the treaty of Jeddah. Islam has ALWAYS been the driving force behind slavery all the way up until today. Why Muslims bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn about thier own history is beyond me.

      January 30, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.