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January 30th, 2012
01:30 PM ET
Islam doesn't justify 'honor murders,' experts insistBy Richard Allen Greene, CNN (CNN) - Zainab Shafia's crime was to run off to marry a man her parents hated. Middle sister Sahar's crime was to wear revealing clothes and have secret boyfriends. Youngest sister Geeti's crime was to do badly in school and call social workers for help dealing with a family home in turmoil. The punishment for all three teenage Canadian sisters was the same: death. Their executioner: their brother, acting on instructions from the father to run their car off the road. Another family member, their father's first wife in a polygamous marriage, was also killed. Hamed Shafia, his father, Mohammed, and his mother, Tooba Mohammed Yahya, were sentenced to life in prison for murder, with Judge Robert Maranger excoriating their "twisted notion of honor, a notion of honor that is founded upon the domination and control of women, a sick notion of honor that has absolutely no place in any civilized society." Leading Muslim thinkers wholeheartedly endorsed the Canadian judge's verdict, insisting that "honor murders" had no place and no support in Islam. "There is nothing in the Quran that justifies honor killings. There is nothing that says you should kill for the honor of the family," said Taj Hargey, director of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford in England. "This idea that 'somehow a girl has besmirched our honor and therefore the thing to do is kill her' is bizarre, and Muslims should stop using this defense," he said, arguing that the practice is cultural, not religious in origin. "You cannot say this is what Islam approves of. You can say this is what their culture approves of," he said. The Shafia family is originally from Afghanistan. Experts say honor murders take place in many parts of the world. "It's definitely a problem that happens in many different places: the Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh and among immigrant communities in North America," said Nadya Khalife, a researcher on women's rights in the Arab world for Human Rights Watch. Several Arab countries and territories, including Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Yemen and the Palestinian territories, have laws providing lesser sentences for honor murders than for other murders, Human Rights Watch says. Egypt and Jordan also have laws that have been interpreted to allow reduced sentences for honor crimes, the group says. Reliable figures of the number of honor murders are hard to come by, Khalife said, but she pointed to a United Nations Population Fund estimate of 5,000 per year. Khalife agreed that the practice should not be blamed on Islam. "It's not linked to religion; it's more cultural," she said. "There have been several Islamic scholars who have issued fatwas against honor killing." Mohammed Shafia, who denied murder, said himself in court that Islam did not justify honor murders. "In our religion, a person who kills his wife or daughter, there is nothing more dishonorable," he testified. But Shafia was heard condemning his dead children in wiretapped conversations played in court. "May the devil defecate on their graves! This is what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?" he said. Hargey, the director of the Muslim Educational Centre, said violence was sometimes the result of painful transition. "Muslims are in a state of flux," he said. "They are between two worlds: the ancient world and the new technological age," he said. "Women are getting rights and the ability to choose their own spouses. The family in Canada didn't know how to respond to this: the conflict between the discipline of children and the new reality." Irshad Manji, the author of "Allah, Liberty and Love: Courage to Reconcile Faith and Freedom," said there was another conflict at work in honor murders, a term CNN uses in preference to "honor killings" because the latter phrase does not properly describe the crime. It is "a tribal tradition that emphasizes the family or the tribe or the community over the individual," she said. Although the practice may not be Islamic, she said, not all Muslims understand the distinction. "It is a problem within Islam because of how Muslims often confuse culture and religion," she said. "It's Muslims who have to learn to separate culture and religion. If we don't, Islam will continue to get the bad name that it gets." But one vocal British campaigner against honor violence points out that not all the crimes are perpetrated by Muslims. Jasvinder Sanghera, who was the victim of a forced marriage, is not Muslim; she is Sikh. "Significant cases are happening within South Asian communities, be it Pakistani, Indian, Sikh, Muslim, Kurdish, Iranian, Middle Eastern communities," she said. "And we have to recognize that because the statistics don't lie. I am not standing here trying to embarrass those communities. But equally, those communities should be ashamed because this is happening in their community and they are not taking a stand," she said. On the other hand, honor murders are not a problem in Indonesia, which has the world's largest Muslim population. "No such a practice can be found among Indonesian Muslims," said Azyumardi Azra, the director of the graduate school at the State Islamic University in Jakarta, Indonesia. " 'Honor killing' is, I believe, a cultural problem among Arab and South Asian Muslims. I don't think that kind of practice has an Islamic basis," he said. Although women and girls make up the overwhelming number of victims, there have been at least some male victims, including Ahmet Yildiz, a gay Turkish man whose fugitive father is the main suspect in his 2008 shooting death. Britain has had about a dozen honor murders per year for the past several years, said Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain. He, too, said the crimes were not justified by Islam. "This comes from tribal customs where the father - not both parents - see children as their property. A girl decides to marry somebody of whom their parents do not approve, and they conspire and find some way to kill and dispose of this body," he said. "This is a kind of misplaced shame that parents feel that their daughter has decided to marry somebody of her choosing, not theirs." Britain's Crown Prosecution Service has an expert devoted to prosecuting honor-based violence, Nazir Afzal. Convicting perpetrators can be difficult, he said. "There is a wall of silence around this, and people are not prepared to talk," he said. But Afzal insisted that it was "absolutely important that you bring every single person to justice because you want to deter other people from doing it." And along with the Islamic scholars and human rights advocates, he rejected out of hand the idea that religion justified it. "At the end of the day, murder is murder. There is no faith on Earth, no community on Earth that justifies this," he said. "Abrahamic faiths say 'Thou shalt not kill,' " he pointed out. "At the end of the day, nobody should die for this." CNN's Paula Newton, Atika Shubert, Bharati Naik, Ashley Hayes, Ivan Watson and Becky Anderson contributed to this report. soundoff (2,115 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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They can say that Islam doesnt approve Honor Killing, then why not issue a "Fatwa" to forbid them?
And those who says the that statements clearly are liars, cause in conservative Islamic states they still do honor killings and the goverment just let the practices flourished.
Nice!...the fatwa!...I like it, simply from an intellectual standpoint, would love to see what happened form there...
Are honor killings and domestic violence the same?
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Honor_Related_Violence#Differing_Characteristics_of_Honor_Violence_and_Domestic_Violence
The media and the 'experts' are working overtime to confuse people. Don't trust them to give you the truth. Read for yourself and use your own brain!
Copy paste this link and pass this on! Knowledge is power!!!
Use your own knowledge...if you have any...stop cutting and pasting, this isn't kidnergarten.
I am a 27 years old doctor,mature and beautiful. and now i am seeking a good man who can give me real love, so i got a sername Andromeda2002 on Agedate.СòM, a nice and free place for younger women and older men,or older women and younger men, to interact with each other.Maybe you wanna check out or tell your friends.
TOGTFO
Islam is not a religion! its a cult of violence...
shame on you.
That's very mature of you to say Ahmad!
really?! you want everyone to know how stupid you are?! you write your name as Ahmad and insult Islam, like really?!?! i hope you had fun!
What? You're saying I couldn't possibly be a Christian? Or an atheist? After all, what's in a name?
Ahmad is a Muslim name, don't act dumb please. If that's really your name then
لا تتكلم عن دينك
Which i am sure you will not understand, but hey you act like your name is Ahmad then prove it read "لا تتكلم عن دينك"
This muslim is like sewer rat, no matter how you try and tame it.. still the same. Best to do is throw out of country back to garbage third world.
Allah is not really god. He is a false idol. All who worship false idols will rightfully spend eternity in the lake of fire. Good.
More hate, yep, that's the answer.....let me gues.........some sort of evangelical born again nightmare right?..they like the lake of fire thing....you're no better than they are.
I have no hate.
Anyone who thinks it's 'good' that people suffer eternity burning in a lake of fire can't be 'good'...call yourself what you will...or spout some b-s about gods love and free will and all that crapola....
"Allah" simply means "God" in Arabic. A Christian Arab will say "Allah" as well as a Muslim one.
Justsayin: Sometimes maybe you shouldn't say. Especially with you being so full of BS.
"Allah" is only one name for the many names for God. One God. Is Christianity also "bad" because of the American terrorist Timothy McVeigh and other American terrorists too numerous to mention? The enslavement of Africans and the virtual extinction of Native Americans that was justified by Christianity? The pervasiveness of ignorance is mind-boggling.
You don't know what you're talking about. You'll find out the hard way.
Whatever happened has nothing to do with Islam. This was a personal action of an individual and his family. I am a devoted Muslim and all I know is that the rights of human are more important than the rights of God. Islam has only one message for human beings "Love for all, Hatred for none".
Absolutely true. In fact, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said that if a father has two daughters and he brings them up in a decent manner, he will be with me in the heaven. How can a father who has killed his daughters can claim to be a Muslim. He is not even a human let alone a follower of Islam.
Whatever happened has nothing to do with Islam. This was a personal action of an individual and his family. I am a devoted Muslim and all I know is that the rights of human are more important than the rights of God. Islam has only one message for human beings "Love for all, Hatred for none".
Really? It has nothing to do with Islam? Seemed like it to me. It was an honor killing done in the name of Islam and is an act that is repeated throughout the world in the name of Islam. I don't think you can call that a "personal action". That's a lot of personal action. Because see, the thing is, while I do recognize that there are Muslims who are decent, intelligent people, I see more Muslims who are backwards, uneducated, violent brutes and who do it all in the name of "Islam". So, for everyone who shouts "that's not Islam!" I think you ought to pay more attention to what's going on because there are a LOT of "people" (if you can call them that) – even more than the moderate Muslims – who are doing horrific acts in the name of Islam. and they seem to keep ON doing it. And because of that, I'm pretty much prone to thinking that Islam is a backwards, violent, horrible religion. Not something personal.
What you do is revoke their citizenship. Send them back to the armpit countries they came from. Then when they prove they can behave like adults you tell them 'maybe" we'll let you back.
That isn't much of a punishment for these levels of crimes. I say life in prison is more appropriate.
yeah, but the 'behaving like adults' part means, like, forever banished.....
Bottom line: nobody but these three individuals are to blame for the crimes that they committed. The notion of 'guilt by association' has no meaning in cases such as these. No other Muslim should be held accountable for these crimes, regardless of the fact that these three were Muslims.
Yes, no other Muslim must be held accountable. But Islam must be, since it is behind this practice!
Animals. The reason this goes on is that the Muslim community is constantly apologizing for the actions of the killers and misanthropes within their midst. Islam is a feudal religion which is set on the destruction of freedom, and promotion of dictatorships. In Pakistan, respected citizens are viciously murdered if they stand up for the rights of women. Sure, there are sincere, loving people who are Muslims, but the overarching mindset (or lack there of) in Islam is a brutal, primitive, misogynistic nightmare. Tolerate this religionat the peril of freedom.
Muslim sewer rats.
says who? says a rat...
Hey everyone,
Don't trust what anyone (including the deceiving 'experts') tells you about Islam. Go learn about Islam for yourself. The best way to learn about Islam and what it means to non-Muslims you need learn about Sharia. There is a great book, well written, well researched and easy to read book on Sharia – "Sharia for Non-Muslims". The cool thing is that they made this book available free of cost as an online pdf!!! Here is the link :
http://www.politicalislam.com/pdf/WebSitePDF/ShariaNonMuslim.pdf
I suggest dipping the pages in paraffin and allowing them to dry.
Makes a fine fire starter.
My apology. I thought this was more CAIR propaganda. Out of practice I am.
Copy paste it and pass this on! Knowledge is power!!!
Will there ever be a world without Muslims? I sure hope so because they are disgusting!
Your hope will die with your dream
Really – all are disgusting? You are disgusting. I am caucasion btw. How ignorant are you. (note the lack of a question mark)
Whether or not Islam justifies honor killings doesn't matter at this point. Like all religions, Islam has shown to lead some percentage of its followers to extremism and to do ruthless, insane acts like this one. Islam and all religions need to be abolished from the planet.
Better get busy and organize that 'let's abolish religion' rally.
Child nitwit.
Corrrect....
@BG stop believing in the imaginary people, imaginary places, and things that never happened...child nitwit?...really?...is that the best u could do you boogerheadedcokkapoopoo.
Christorpher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Daniel Dennet, among others are doing a pretty good job already.
A rally does nothing. Education is key. Educate people and religion disappears.
@ jespo
Nitwit serves it purpose well. It's concise and appropriate here whenever someone starts up with 'abolishing' religion.
Talk about an effort in futility. 😆
Live, question everything, dont take absolutely everything at face value and above all, dont listen to people who "know" = death of religion....it's happening already, just not fast enough...
Everything in it's own time. You can't rush social evolution. Just write "I hate religion" on the back of a fortune cookie slip, sign and date it and put it in a plastic waterproof match case then bury it in your backyard.
In 3127 some poor housewife will dig it up while she's planting her rose garden and have a good laugh.
" Tee hee, religion... imagine that! "
If there was sunblock a few thousand years ago it would have helped those unfortunate mongrels living in that hotbed of mental health known as the cradle of monotheism...they would have realized it was just heat stroke and not an imaginary being talking inside their head...grow up and face the real world...there is no god...
Imagine that, Muslims being disgusting!
The question posed was "Is there a tie between honor killings and Islam?". The answer is obviously 'Yes'. It may or may not be in the Quran but a lot of Muslim clerics demand it. So, yes, there is a tie between Islam and honor killings.
Alot Christian clerics demand you bend over, that's more of a proven fact than your wild ranting.
sources please.
Sure. I've got your "sources" right...
Here.
Every other day American media starts another Islam bashing and bunch idiots feed off of it. This is a cultural thing, not religious freaking dim bags...
Ahh so when a Muslim kills someone the media needs to stay quiet. When say a Church is blown up with Christians inside like say during Christmas the media needs to stay quiet. When Muslims kidnap Coptic Girls and burn their Churches the media needs to stay quiet. When Hidus are murdered in mass the media needs to stay quiet. When Buddhists are beheaded, burned and killed on the side of the road in Thailand the media needs to stay quiet. When South Sudanese are robbed of their land and murdered for oil by Muslim warlords from the north the media needs to stay quiet. And when a father murderes his wife and daughters and he is a Muslim the media needs to stay quiet..... After all we would not want idiots to comment on it now would we.
Nice Ross...well Ron, anything?...hhmmnn....
Thanks, Ron.
And to add to what you are saying, there is no such thing as "honor killings" in Islam. I am not surprised as to why the media keeps pushing this falsehood down the throats of a very gullible and ignorant populace. The concept of "Honor killings" is purely cultural and practiced by a very fringe group of people in Afghanistan (the Pashtun) and parts of India, Iran, and China. It is cultural, NOT religious. In fact, the Quran clearly prohibits murder:
"Whoever kills a believer intentionally, their reward will be Hell, to abide therein forever, and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon them, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for them." (Holy Quran, Chapter 4, Verse 93)
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if they killed all people. And if any one saved a life, it would be as if they saved the life of all people." (Holy Quran, Chapter 5, Verse 32)
Ross, why not? the media stays quite of the daily atrocities committed and supported by fanatic bible believers in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and others, including bombing mosques with worshippers inside, running over kits in their armored vehicles, kidnaping and ransom and drug cartles in latin America, mass genocide by warrying chrsitain factions in south Sudan and when Coptic Christians kidnap and imrison women who convert to Islam.
Yeah Right, blaming this on American Media!
Have you in your sick mind heard the saying: By their DEEDS ye shall know them! Unquote.
FYI: American Media were nowhere close or near when these monstrous and murderous acts were being planned or were taking place. They're just reporting the murderous evil FACTS perpetuated by these evil muslims on behalf of Satan Lucifer possessed Midget mohammed. The police needs to bring your ass in for questioning since you do know when these monstrous and murderous acts were being planned or were taking place yet; did nothing. You have the same blood on your hands like these monstrous and murderous evil souls.
You have NO soul!
Kat if all you have are lies and embellisments you will never prove anything.
Muslims, come out of the darkness and in to the Light. You will only know God through accepting Jesus Christ as your savior.
yea because you're a good demonstration of someone who is enlightened. Your idol is Pat Robertson.
Actually, Muslims do believe in Jesus Christ. He is one of their prophets and is also considered to be the Messiah. They don't believe in the concept of trinity as it considered to be pagan. Booyah.
"May the devil defecate on their graves! This is what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a wh ore?"
Booyah.
I know plenty about Islam and I would encourage Muslims to leave it!
I don't want to know god. Or Jesus Christ. God was a poor designer who likely suffers from attention disorder. And Jesus was a self-centered fanatic. And a procrastinator. "I'll be back" yeah, right. 2,000 years already Of course, I say this all and don't really mean it because god doesn't exist and JC likely never did.
@ Kebos
So exactly what are you bítching about? Want some cheese with that whine?
Bottom line – Islam when found as the majority religion in a country: Suppresses freedom of religion, speech, and equality, Limits economic, social and political growth.
Islam is a parasitic retrograde force that suppresses communities, governments and now is beginning to negatively affect even the Western World. Most of all things like honour killings continue from generation to generation in Islamic societies as they are stuck in time. Simply compare Islamic States to Every other state in the world. All of them have the same pattern: poor illiterate masses ruled by autocrats or theocrats that use fear to keep the people in subjugation.
Islam if it were indeed some final revelation would create States and Communities that are prosperous and educated. Instead very few Islamic States could be considered prosperous nations that have a high standard of living for all and not just a few. The proof of what Islam really is can be found right in front of us the world over.
Amen
yea such as bankrupt Christians Greeks who wish now they were still ruled by prosperous Muslim Turkey than beg to pay their bills.
Maybe if fanatic Bible believers would stop invading and bombing Muslim countries in a lot more would do better
yea because non-muslim and/or christian nations such as Mexico, Latin America, Serbia, Philipenes are doing so great, let alone bankrupt EU and US
ever heard o the 1% ers? yea that's a term coined by poor non-muslim people in America to describe the only 1% wealthy of the country who control 2/3 of all the wealth.
Kat – you pick one nation out of a hundred and hold it up as a failure... Then use Turkey with a GDP of 735 Billion versus 305 Billion and say: see see Islamic States are more prosperous.... Kat Greece has 11.3 Million People while Turkey has 72.5 Million people.... DO THE MATH if you can. ...
To top it off I have 100 Islamic States out of 101 to show you as the failure of Islam. Amazing......!
I agree with Ross trex,look at the Islamic counties ,war every where ,people are suppressed,illiterates.
Same time look at the other countries ,either Christian,Hindus ,Buddhist ,they are living there life peacefully ,not thinking how/when to attack other countries .
Actually you got it all wrong. The word Islam means peace, Islam is not what you call it. Just because some man who happened to be muslim killed his daughters you want to start a rally and bring up all of those negative comments about Islam. W=Are you such a racist that you can not accept people for who they are regardless of their religion? does religion really make a man? then what is a man without it? Islam is a way of life. In Islamic countries people are not suppressed so i want everyone to stop acting like it is, if you never been to an Islamic country don't speak about it being suppressed! many Islamic countries are peaceful and are not in wars ex" Malaysia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE" and believe me their are many more. and for everyone else, don't believe what people say on here, most of the people who comment are raciest anyway. Thank you for your time
Mohammed
Malaysia Has blaphemy laws that put people to death and people of every faith have been attacked there.
Indonesia: Ahh yes the supposed bastion of Islamic Moderation in the Asian world. Ask ANYONE who has ever lived there. If you say anything against Islam you are attacked, jailed or worse. In indonesia Church Services are monitored by Muslims.
Saudi Arabia: You are kidding right? A country that is the center of Wahabism and beheads people for Sorcery.... are you insane?
Oman: Oman is peaceful until you try to speak to someone about Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism.
UAE One word SLAVERY..... The majority of the people in UAE are not from UAE and are slaves.....
My goodness it is hopeless... Muslims see what they want to see because they have been conditioned by Islam to only see the good of Islam and especially only the good in a 7th century pedophile that realized that the only way to get people to kill for him was to say God speaks to him...