February 5th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

The new Christian abolition movement

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Greensboro, North Carolina (CNN) —The truck-stop hooker is no Julia Roberts, the trucker in the cab with her no Richard Gere, and this truck stop off the highway could not be any farther from Beverly Hills, the staging ground for “Pretty Woman.”

The woman sports baggy shorts, a white T-shirt and frizzy hair. Her fat middle-aged pimp sits in a beat up red Honda, watching as his “lot lizard” moves from truck to truck, in broad daylight.  If this pimp has a cane it is for substance, not style.

She moves through the parking lot, occasionally opening a cab’s passenger-side door and climbing in.

The trucker and hooker disappear in the back for 10 minutes.

Danielle Mitchell watches from the other end of the parking lot and shakes her head.

“We know from talking to other victims and other agencies that girls are taken to truck stops and they’re actually traded,” she says, sitting in her car, a shiny silver sport utility vehicle, keeping a healthy 50-yard distance from the pimp.

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Mitchell is North Carolina human trafficking manager for World Relief.  World Relief is a Christian nonprofit attached to the National Association of Evangelicals and is best known for its efforts to combat global hunger and respond to disasters around the world.

Mitchell is trying to tackle a disaster in her home state.   And she is not alone.

Motivated in large part by their religious traditions of protecting the vulnerable and serving “the least of these,” as Jesus instructed his followers to do in the Gospel of Matthew, World Relief and other Christian agencies like the Salvation Army are stepping up efforts and working with law enforcement to stem the flow of human trafficking, which includes sex trafficking and labor trafficking.

“Jesus didn’t just go around telling people about himself.  He also healed the blind and healed the brokenhearted, he freed captives, and I think that it would be ridiculous to walk up to someone who is hurting and tell them, ‘Let me tell you about the Gospel,’ and then walk away while they’re still hurting,” Mitchell says.

In North Carolina, the result of those efforts can be seen in the number of victims of human trafficking being referred to World Relief for services, up 700% in 2011, Mitchell says.

“It’s not that North Carolina is all of a sudden trafficking more people,” Mitchell says. “It’s that we know what to look for and we’re actually identifying and rescuing them.”

Truck stops and sweet potatoes

North Carolina’s rich soil makes it an agricultural hub. It produces more sweet potatoes than anywhere else in the country.  The state acts as a crossroads for three major interstate highways. The mix of accessibility and low-paying farm jobs make a good working environment for traffickers, Mitchell says.

This truck stop is the type you think twice about.  It’s grimy and run down.

How badly do I really have to use the bathroom?  I bet I could hold out for another 12 miles.  That kind of place.

Mitchell walks in and politely asks the women behind the register if they have tape.

“Over there, honey,” the cashier says, pointing to a dimly lit portion of the store.

After paying for a roll of industrial packing tape, she tucks it in her purse and heads for the restroom.

In a stall on the far end, she shuts the door behind her and pulls out the tape and a poster with words in English and Spanish.

“Need help?” the poster asks. “Are you being forced to do something you don’t want to do?” There’s a toll free number, 888-373-7888, for the National Human Trafficking Hotline, run by the nonprofit Polaris Project.

More on the fight against modern-day slavery at the CNN Freedom Project

“A lot of times when girls are being trafficked they’re being controlled,” Mitchell says. “They’re often not allowed to get very far from their trafficker.  And we’ve found one of the very few times girls are alone is when they’re in the bathroom.”

She used to ask if she could hang posters in truck stop restrooms. Now she just hangs them.

That toll free hot line number is plastered on combs, lip balms and nail files that Mitchell and other anti-trafficking workers can slip discreetly to men and women they suspect might be victims. Slipping a potential client an anti-trafficking business card could be dangerous, even deadly, they say.

A comb, nail file and lip balm feature the number for the National Human Trafficking Hotline.

But it’s not the only way Mitchell gets in touch with victims.  Law enforcement is reaching out to her more and more.

When North Carolina law enforcement breaks up a trafficking ring, they call her.

She helps the victims get safe places to live, food and job training,  along with just being a conversation partner.

Since 2010, North Carolina has had a statewide coalition to fight human trafficking. Law enforcement officers are now trained in what to look for. The program includes rapid response teams made up of representatives from law enforcement, service providers, hospitals and charities. When a potential victim comes into a hospital or is discovered through an arrest, the team springs into action.

“Victims are not going to self-identify,” says Mitchell, who has since left World Relief and is considering going back to school after a lack of funding threatened to cut her hours to part time. “ They’re not going to say ‘I’m a victim of human trafficking.’ So the burden is really on the service providers and law enforcement and the community."

In North Carolina, the partnerships between those groups, she says, “have helped to rescue victims.”

Church and state in an unlikely coalition 

Christian groups working to combat trafficking are providing law enforcement with some much-needed relief.

“Because of the limitations of our work, we like to partner with organizations that can provide services,” says Kory Williford, a victim specialist with the FBI based in North Carolina.

“Human trafficking isn’t the only victim population we work with, so to have organizations who can provide care to our victims on a longer term basis than we are able to is huge,” she says.

“A lot of sex trafficking is occurring in this state” and labor trafficking is on the upswing, Williford says.

The FBI in North Carolina has been partnering with World Relief for several years.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Anand P. Ramaswamy, who focuses on human trafficking cases across the state from the federal prosecutors office in Greensboro, says he has been collaborating with local law enforcement on human trafficking.

“Those kind of cases have only recently been on the uptick,” he says. “As officers become more trained in what to look for, the number of cases goes up.”

The nation and the state are still working to catch up with the reality of trafficking, he says.

“Sometimes the victim was treated as part of the problem,” he says.  “In one instance a 16-year-old girl was charged with prostitution by local authorities.  So we have to go and sort of undo that.  That’s also the case where the person may have done something wrong, so they’re reluctant to come forward.”

Ramaswamy is keenly aware that his office and religious groups do not always have the same interests. His is in upholding and enforcing the law, while religious groups are interested in practicing their religion.

But the assistant U.S. attorney still believes in the partnership between church and state.

“On one hand the fact they’re a religious organization is not directly relevant,” he says. “However, if you look at the history of the abolitionist movement, it has always been religious communities and those are the people who are concerned enough to be active in it.

“And today with modern-day slavery the same is the case.”

The new Underground Railroad

Westover Church in Greensboro, North Carolina, is imagining what fighting modern-day slavery could look like. The nondenominational suburban church is cut from an evangelical cloth and has 5,000 members and a sprawling campus.

In 2011, the church started a ministry called “Abolition!” to fight human trafficking. It focuses on prayer, awareness and resources.

“In truth we didn’t know what we were going to do. We just knew we had a really strong passion for it,” says Dianne Stone, an "Abolition!" member. “We didn’t want to be a group that got together and said, ‘Oh we feel so bad for this.’ We wanted to do something and we wanted to make a difference.”

In a bright room off the sanctuary, Stone, Cambre Weller and Jennifer Craver, all members the group, explain why they got involved. They seem unlikely fighters against trafficking.

They could easily pass for a women’s Bible study group as they casually chat about their children and church activities before turning their attention to trafficking concerns in their area.

“It’s another thing to realize this is in your backyard and that’s our responsibility to address that and protect those who are being exploited,” Craver says.

What's the role of faith in fighting slavery?

Craver says the things they have learned about trafficking are horrible and keep her up at night. “I don’t want to know about trafficking, but I do know about it and as a Christian, I feel like I have to respond to that,” she says. “That is part of my calling.”

The group screens documentaries about human trafficking at other churches and sends out speakers to the Christian circuit. They also prepare emergency bags: canvas totes with a comb, brush, journal, pajamas, clean towels and other basics they learned that most trafficked women don’t have.

They keep a ready stash of bags for World Relief to distribute to victims, particularly those who are rescued during raids.

Mitchell says her faith has played a large role in her work to help victims of trafficking. “I don’t think I’m any different than anyone I work with, in vulnerability or dignity,” she says. “And man, I really believe that Christ saw everyone equally.”

Danielle Mitchell views her faith as integral to her work in fighting human trafficking.

“I could have been born in a brothel in India,” she says.

But there is a limit to how much personal faith she shares with clients.

“We’re completely client centered,” she says. “That means we’re not going to force our faith on anyone.  And I don’t talk to the clients about what I believe, unless they ask me.”

“If a client asks me and they want to go to a Buddhist temple, then I’m going to take them because that’s what they want.”

Prostituted not prostitute

Back at the truck stop, Mitchell explains that she hates the term “prostitute” and despises the phrase “lot lizard.”  She says it strips people of their dignity.

Instead, she refers to a “woman or man who is being prostituted.”  It is a slight change in wording that reveals a starkly different viewpoint.

“A lot of people think of sex trafficking or prostitution, they think it’s glamorous and that you can pinpoint someone who is selling sex or being sold for sex,” she says. “Usually it’s just average people who maybe aren’t taking care of themselves."

The prostitute, or woman being prostituted, or potential human trafficking victim, gets back into the beat up red Honda with the overweight pimp, who drives off, maybe after catching a glimpse of a journalist and activist watching them from a safe distance.

Mitchell calls the police to report what she just saw.

A few hours later, they call back and say the alleged pimp and alleged prostitute are long gone.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state • North Carolina • United States

soundoff (1,631 Responses)
  1. ComeBreakMe

    Nice job CNN. You tell us how it's dangerous for these trafficked women to take these nail files, combs and lip balms with the hot line number on them. Then you turn around and put them at greater risk by broadcasting a practice that is supposed to be discreet!

    February 5, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • PureFury

      Your objection assumes pimps read CNN.
      More absurdly, your objection assumes pimps read the CNN belief blog.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • ComeBreakMe

      Hey...anything is possible.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Cocopuf

      Some can read , and even look at CNN. So what. Many wouldn't mind calling things like these in. I'm sure that the owner of the stuck stop would have known what's going on by now?
      There should be stiffer fines WITH mandatory longer jail terms for people involved in trafficking of any sort too. The problem is, we have too many lenient judges, not to mention well overpaid lawyers.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • No ned 4 me 2 com..U'v olredi bn broken.

      Apparently, it is the job of news media. To expose a discreet but illegal practices.

      February 10, 2012 at 4:20 am |
  2. Real Prophet

    Nonbeliever why don't you just accept the fact a messiah was born to a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, healed the sick with his touch, that your supposed to eat his flesh and drink his blood, fed 5,000 men with 5 loaths of bread and 2 fish, was tortured to death by Romans so that you can forgiven for that time Eve was tricked by a talking snake into eating an apple, then he rose from the grave after 3 days then flew into heaven to live in a mansion. Just believe or have even more horrific things you could ever imagine then even the worst experiences you've ever had in life because Jesus loves you. You should know god who is the creator of the world and the universe watches every second of your life because your what truly matters in all this world. Is it really that hard to believe?

    February 5, 2012 at 9:14 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Can I get an amen brother!!

      February 5, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
  3. jesuswore womens panties and loved giving rimmers

    give me a break!
    there will always bep r o s t it u t e s?
    take 1 off the street...2 more will replace her
    fact fact fact
    how many church people use p r o s t it u t e s?
    jesus also gave chocolate rimmers, B Js and loved to receive golden showers!

    February 5, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Crad

      Most trolls at least put forth an effort.. Man, people are getting so lazy these days

      February 5, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • Credenza

      I'd really like to let rip here after reading such a blasphemous comment. I'm trying very hard to live up to my own standards and not sink to your level.
      All I will say is that you are doing the devil'd work with your profanities so I will pray that your soul is healed, and that you learn to make an intelligent argument – not resort to offensive attention seeking.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
  4. jesuswore womens panties and loved giving rimmers

    give me a break!
    there will always bep r o s t it u t e s?
    take 1 off the street...2 more will replace her
    fact fact fact
    how many church people use p r o s t it u t e s?

    February 5, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Credenza

      Bless you. You poor troubled soul.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
  5. Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer takes people away from actually working on real solutions to their problems.
    Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
    Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
    Prayer fucks up your knees and your neck and your back.
    Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
    Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
    Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
    Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
    Prayer makes you post really stupid shit.
    Prayer makes you hoard cats.
    Prayer makes you smell like kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
    Prayer wastes time.

    February 5, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • Don

      Actually prayer does do some good but NOT because you are 'speaking' to ANY divine authority, but BECAUSE it is ACTUALLY a form of meditation and brings about the same response in the brain as meditation does. BUT that is NO sign there is a divine being youo are speaking to, if you 'believe' in something strongly enough your mind can work some real astounding things upon you and your well being.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      I'm withya on that Don. I like to compare prayer with self psychotherapy. Using it for your own purposes does not harm anyone but can help the individual. Even this Atheist can weed out some of the natural root benefits religion offers.

      February 5, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • angelnmaking

      The doctor told me my baby was dead. I prayed to the Jesus and went back to the doctor for an ultrasound the baby was alive. My 16 year old son was blind in one eye. I always pray for my children. Age 17 he was healed! Doctor proven.. His vision went from 20/0 to 20/60 to 20/50 to 20/20. Lastly my family was in fiancial trouble. No bailouts for us. I only had the Lord and I prayed to him only. I received a check for the amount I needed from an unlikely source. Say what you will BUT I KNOW THAT PRAYER WORKS. NOBODY WILL EVER CHANGE MY MIND BECAUSE I HAVE PROOF. The girls need our prayers and outstreched hands. Compassion and mercy. God bless them for trying to make a difference.

      February 5, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      My sister's newborn died after countless prayers. My friend's 14yo son was shot & killed while many were praying for him. I'm glad things worked out well for you and your family, but it appears God loves you and Tim Tebow more than the rest of us.

      February 5, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • Crad

      Horses. Thats not what prayers are for. I dont know why people think prayer is supposed to be like a genie granting wishes. Prayer is not supposed to be asking god for favors or results. Prayer is a method of communication and meditation with god. God will not grant "wishes", no matter what people say. And then strangely people mock god for this very reason. I never understood this.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • Credenza

      YOU say PRAYER wastes time???????????? Pot > kettle > black........ How does it feel to be one chromosome removed from a turnip????

      February 5, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Crad, I don't believe in prayer .. it's nothing more than a horseshoe for luck. My comment was in response to angelnmaking. Good question though .. why do people think prayer will get them anything, other than a little psycholigical relief?

      February 6, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Credenza, prayer doesn't change the fact that we're all a few chromosomes away from fruits & veggies. Ignoring that fact won't help you deal with reality.

      February 6, 2012 at 8:22 am |
  6. GodIsTheWay

    Jesus never intended "religion," I don't think. I think He intended spirituality to rule the soul. Religion is based around rules, and some of these rules I don't remember reading Jesus ever speaking of. The bible gives the wisdom of the Father and the Son, which if you truly take it into yourself, will lead to the grace of the Holy Ghost.

    Beware blaspheming the Holy Ghost.. that's about the only unforgivable sin. The only one God may not be willing to let go.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      You were right on track there until you mentioned "father," "son," and "holy ghost." Those are representations of RELIGION. Sorry.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Jimmy Swaggart: While you're taking the name of a heretical bozo who tended to pollute God's word, you are also incorrect about the context of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. all are mentioned throughout the entire New Testament, which, if you've read it, is the last convenant. The Covenant of Jesus, which was to replace the covenant of Moses. All three are mentioned.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • sam

      I'm confused – how do you blaspheme the holy ghost, specifically?

      February 5, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Dean Winchester

      You salt your doors.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @sam: By speaking spitefully of the spirit and love of God. The Holy Spirit is the part of God that fills US with the feeling of His love and forgiveness. By blaspheming that, you're blaspheming God, and that's almost unforgivable.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Benny Hinn

      GodIsTheWay: If you don't understand that RELIGION is man-made...and therefore, any belief system WRITTEN DOWN is a RELIGION, then you are hopeless. Believe in a higher power if you want to, but don't incorporate man-made paradigms into your belief. That's ridiculous! The fact is you have NO PROOF that any "god" even exists. You have not seen it, you do not hear from it (though you may think you talk to it). The best you can do is keep your mouth shut and not share your opinions about your fantasies with your fellow humans.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Benny Hinn: I need no proof. The fact that you do, proves you are of the wicked generation that seeks signs. Jesus said that God knows of this, and will NOT grant signs to the wicked.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • Benny Hinn

      GodIsTheWay: Don't you get it?! The people that wrote the book that you believe in were smart enough to think: "Hey, if we really want to screw with people's minds, and scare them into following our system, we can just tell 'em that they can't expect any proof or else they're "unchosen" or "demonic" or "unsaved" or "d@mned" or whatever kind of crap you wanna come up with???? You're the fvkkin retard, FOLLOWER! You're doing exactly what THEY wanted you to! Don't you feel the least bit STUPID?!

      February 5, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Benny Hinn: I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you're the one throwing around insults such as a 5 year old would use. "Fukkin retard" is so original. I've spoken with Jews. It's well known in their history that Yeshua (Jesus) was very much a real person. They admit he made predictions and all were true. They admit he healed people. The only thing the Jews won't admit is the resurrection. Most of what is in the bible is actual truth. These things WERE said. There was, of course, a lot more said as well, but not everything "made it in" which I find to be wrong.. I think everything should. The Jews know. After all, He walked among them first.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • Don

      GodIs theWay All of this is good IF you get to use the bible but you are speaking about a book written by many authors other than the ones purported to have written same and about a mythological being who never existed UNLESS you use the bible as historical significance which you cannot BECAUSE there is NOTHING else that establishes it as fact. Case in Point, the Romans were great record keepers, they kept track of how many sheep one paid for taxes etc, it was mind boggling. In ALL of Pontius Pilate's records there IS and Never was any mention of anyone named Jesus brought to him to be put to death by the Jews.

      Now what IS interesting is there are accounts of over 2 dozen people running about in the desert CLAIMING to be the Messiah, but then each and EVERY time the Jews got conquered this happened with regular occurence, every fool in the nation hoped he would get something right as prophecy and be the NEXT great prophet.

      Since they DO not keep track or mention how MANY Flase prophets there ALWAYS were one soon sees if enough fools run around the desert claiming miraculous things sooner or later one fool will be found close enough to change the facts and Ta Da we have the NEXT Great Jewish Prophet. You see for ANY of this to be anywhere near accepted you first have to PROVE the Jews were not just suffering from desert insanity and were not a bunch of loonies to begin with. After all except for the loaction of some places and their names there is NOTHING in the old testament that can be confirmed. If this proves the bible as fact then the written tale of the Battle of Troy proves the Greek Gods are fact as well. After all, they did FIND the city of Troy.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Don: the problem is, all you and other atheists want to do is deny, deny, deny. You can actually utilize the bible as a reference point, because there are many, many people who were there. They are called Jews, and they keep even more obsessively good records than Romans ever could have dreamed of. BTW:

      Jesus's Hebrew/Aramaic name was "Yeshua", which is technically "Joshua." Jesus also works, however, because the vernacular changes over time to where it becomes Joshua in the present. In the bible, it said that the child would be named Emmanuel, which SOUNDS spanish, but is actually Hebrew/Aramaic for "God is with us." For He so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, which was also Him, in sacrifice so the world would never have to sacrifice for forgiveness again. The Jews used to have certain sacrifices they had to make, but with the new convenant, God changed that. Problem is, they didn't listen :/ but that's for another day. Fact is, there are records of Mariam, Joseph (but I can't remember his Hebrew name atm), and Yeshua, as well as His two earthly "half brothers." They ALL existed. Sorry.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      Don, you are the man!

      I and I reefer you to (Matthew 24:34, Jesus said:) "Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
      Obviously Jeezus, missed this prediction. The generation that existed when he was around is obviously quite dead now.

      Besides, Mohammed got some of his predictions right and so did Nostredamus....and the Mayan and Hopi Indians....

      Look how easy it is to make a "prediction." I will make one now.....

      Things will.....get worse.....

      This will not fail. If the stock market goes down on any future date I am correct. DOLT!

      February 5, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      Emmanuel doesn't sound Spanish! HA HA HA! What have you been smoking?

      February 5, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Jimmy Swaggart: Actually, this generation hasn't passed. What is a generation in the eyes of God? This is a wicked generation that demands signs to give faith, when true faith has begotten signs. It's rarely anything major... a truck starting with no gas, when it had refused to start for over a half an hour, for example. This sort of debate is the same debate as "What is a day to God?" It could be 24 hours, it could be 24 billion years. Personally, I think God gets joy out of us discovering things for ourselves, which is why He doesn't just provide answers to questions.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Jimmy Swaggart: I've only been around spanish speakers almost every minute of my entire life. But I have no idea what spanish sounds like.. personally, it looks to me as if you're getting desperate to find SOMETHING wrong, because you realize I'm right.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post by GodIsTheWay contains the fallacy of circular reasoning.


      February 5, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Jenn

      Newsflash Jimmy – that prediction was about the destruction of Jerusalem which occurred in 70 AD.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      "This sort of debate is the same debate as "What is a day to God?" It could be 24 hours, it could be 24 billion years. Personally, I think God gets joy out of us discovering things for ourselves, which is why He doesn't just provide answers to questions."

      You brain dead religious freaks just keep making it up as you go! The "day" could not have been anything BUT 24 hours since in Genesis your "god" put the stars in the vault of the sky on the fourth day to separate day from night....and there was evening on the fourth day and #h|+......just keep improvising....that's the only way you can keep your faith.......DOLT!

      February 5, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Don

      GodIs TheWay sorry but anything written by the Jews is NOT nearly as useful in history as the writings by the Romans. You see the diifference is the Jewish History was written with the intention of supporting their mythology rather than just historical fact as were the Roman writings. If you try and say it is useful then you also have to accept all of the Greek, Norse, Persian, Hindi and many many other religious histories as factual and we all know what a can of worms that is when you open it up. Nice try but no, NO part of the bible either old or new testament can EVER be seen as historical and is not looked upon as historical text by anyone other than Religious persona. In actual acceptable history the bible is NOTHING more than mere mythology. There are MANY MANY instances where things have been written to back the mythology rather than to support history.

      The bible as a result is MAJORLY Flawed in the historical aspect.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      Newsflash, Jenn....No, it was Jesus saying "I'm coming right back!" but well, gee,, 2000 years is a LOOOONNNNNGG TIME!

      What is truth in terms of biblical fallacy anyway? Since one can just keep making it up as one goes in order to keep the "truth" "true".....

      February 5, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • Don

      Well also sorry there Jenn, but the ruler of Israel who supposedly had all the babies killed trying to destroy christ supposedly just after his birth was ALREADY DEAD 40 years BEFORE christ was born, so now how do you explain that blatant lie in the bible?

      February 5, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • SATAN

      Yes, I am preventing you from spreading the almighty gospel from behind the comfort and anonymity of your computer keyboard, which will, by the way, score you no cool points in heaven anyway. Muhahahahahahaha!

      February 5, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Don

      And Christ wasn't born till 1 BC and that date is not exact, the actual difference between the death of Herod and the birth of christ is 4 years but even then Herod was DEAD 4 years before the earliest date given for christ's birth. Thus the bible lies.

      February 5, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • Believer

      Hey Don, If you type in what year was Jesu.s born on Google you will find that he was actually born at around 6 b.c. Also just so you know there has not been any archealogic finds that have proven the Bible wrong, in fact most support what the Bible says.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
    • Observer


      "Also just so you know there has not been any archealogic finds that have proven the Bible wrong,"

      Do you mean all the 6,000 year-old dinosaurs?

      February 6, 2012 at 12:02 am |
    • Believer

      How do you explain the cave drawings of Dinosaurs?
      Or the temple carvings?
      Or pterodactyl sightings by natives in Africa?
      Also I have done my research on Carbon Dating, and Uranium Dating. It is very faulty and relies on the assumption that the ratio of C14 and C12 atoms has remained constant, and that no variables interfered with the decay. Neither of which has been proven true.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • Observer


      There have to be few, if any scientists, who don't believe that the earth is millions of years old. Get serious.

      Please tell us that carbon dating can't tell the difference between 6,000 years and MILLIONS of years.

      Please tell us that Noah loaded dinosaurs on the ark. Stories can't get any more illogical that that of Noah's ark.

      February 6, 2012 at 1:02 am |
    • Observer


      Khmer also drew 3-headed snakes, etc.

      February 6, 2012 at 1:18 am |
    • Q

      The claim that humans coexisted w/ dinos is ridiculous. Apart from a few scattered images which creationists claim provide proof of coexistence, there is no actual physical evidence. No humans and dinos in the same geologic strata. As creationists claim humans drove dinos to extinction via hunting, one might have thought at least one trophy would have been kept. As it stands the only evidence of dinos is their fossils. By Believer's logic, a depiction of a creature means the creature co-existed with humans and so be on the lookout for any of the bird/dog/lion-headed deities peppering Egyptian ruins. Look out for hydra, the minotaur, medussa and chimera. Satyrs, Cyclops, Griffins, etc, etc. In the few examples of pre-historic art which actually do appear to capture coexisting organisms, e.g. the Lascaux, France cave paintings, no T. Rexs, no Velociraptors, etc. A striking absence of apex predators...

      February 6, 2012 at 1:25 am |
    • Believer

      Did you read the articles? Also try watching this, it is a good movie showing how evolution has many flaws in it,

      February 6, 2012 at 1:51 am |
    • PFUI

      Believer - just take a good look at this one - http://www.myfoxny.com/dpps/news/dinosaur-cave-painting-stirs-controversy-dpgoha-20110329-fc_12529813

      They have obviously interpreted it ba'ss-ackwards. What they see as the long neck and head is actually the long, curved, raised tail – probably of a skunk (certainly something worth a warning sign on the wall!).

      February 6, 2012 at 1:59 am |
    • Observer


      Please save us 2 HOURS of watching and tell us all about talking serpents, dragons, and unicorns. There seems to be a shortage of them today and thoroughout all archeological finds.

      February 6, 2012 at 2:03 am |
    • Believer

      well you could watch it in 10 minute intervals, but I will spare you. I dont know why you keep bringing unicorns into the conversation because I dont maintain that they existed however I believe that the dragons that most ancient cultures believed in were in fact Dinosaurs. The term Dinosaur is a relatively new one, we saw some big bones diddnt know what they were and called them dinosaurs. In fact ancient China actually has a dragon feeder job in the records. Now that couldnt have existed if in fact there were no dragons. Also the video shows how the embryonic evidence was in fact a hoax, that there are no such thing as transitional fossils and that if the world was older than 30000 years old then carbon 14 would have reached equilibrium, it hasnt. It gives some example where carbon dating was way off, and shows how scientists really determined the millions of years. If you get the chance and time I highly recomend you watch it.

      February 6, 2012 at 2:23 am |
    • Observer


      "I dont know why you keep bringing unicorns into the conversation because I dont maintain that they existed"

      I bring up unicorns and talking serpents because you believe the Bible over basic science, archeology, physics, math, biology, astronomy, etc. (Some day please explain to me how the ratio pi can be equal to 3.0 in the Bible, but not now.)

      At least we can end on agreement that not everything in the Bible is to be believed. Good place to quit. Good night.

      February 6, 2012 at 2:33 am |
    • PFUI

      Believer: Read...


      February 6, 2012 at 2:50 am |
    • Q

      @Believer – http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/

      Knock yourself out, just know that Hovind, Ham and the rest of ICR and AIG make a living from lying to folks like yourself, preying on a limited understanding of the actual science. At every chance to present their "evidence", ID/creationists have lost to mainstream science. Even when attempting to circ-umvent the process of actual peer-review and go straight into classrooms, judges (conservative and liberal alike) have repeatedly found zero support for their non-scientific claims.

      Dragons? Really? With all those dragon slayers driving dinosaurs to extinction, not a single trophy? How many deer, bear, fish, etc, etc, have you seen mounted on walls in your lifetime? Do you really think some knight bags a dragon and doesn't hold onto to a trophy?

      February 6, 2012 at 3:19 am |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      Believer watched Flintstones and thinks it's real! HA HA HA!

      Now here's an idea. If you really want to consider that humans "remember" dinosaurs, the only way that could be even remotely possible is that we retain a prehistoric remnant of a collective memory from our lemur ancestors (or whatever form our ancestors were in when dinosaurs were actually still around). This memory would have had to pass down through about 65 million years, through the primate phase of our evolution, on to modern man. Not likely, but at least my idea is better than relying on the existence of a "dragon feeding job."

      Keep your head buried in the sand, idiot!

      February 6, 2012 at 9:13 am |
    • Jimmy Swaggart

      Believer, you sound like you're about a teenage girl. Right?

      Pterodactyl sightings?! Cave paintings (as if they couldn't be faked by some Creationist freak)? HA HA HA! You would believe anything wouldn't you?

      This has already been said by another, but please explain how radiometric dating is SO FALLIBLE that it could mistake a 6,000 year old object with one that is more than 65,000,000 years old?! You find one flaw in the scientific process, then you bury your head in the sand and chalk up all science as being false. You ignore everything else you might learn about science because you don't want to find anything that will destroy your faith, which you know hangs by a mere thread because you have no evidence of any kind.....just an old book of supersti-tious fairy tales mixed in with some Jewish genealogy and accounts of cities having existed.....Oooooh, as if that makes the whole bible FACT.....just because the bible happens to mention a city or two that were there (or perhaps still are). Big deal! Grow up, retard!

      February 6, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • ashrakay

      @Believer, I know a lot of people have come down hard on you, but let me say, you have no idea what you're talking about. You are either willfully ignorant in order to maintain your fantasy, or you are just ignorant. Scientifically, the margin of error on isotope dating is about 1% for all variations. Imagine I tell you that you will die at age 45 with a 1% margin of error. This doesn't mean you will not die at 45 but you may die at 44 or 46. Does this invalidate the science of prediction? Absolutely not. As you would expect, the further we look back in time using various isotope clocks the larger the amount of years will be for our estimation. So if you want to date a rock which is billions of years old, you must be satisfied with an error of plus or minus tens of millions of years. The Uranium-238 clock has a half-life of 4,500,000,000 years. Carbon-14 has a half-life of 5,730 years so it's invalid for anything beyond 50-60k years. Your 22 year old NY Times article isn't saying anything that isn't widely understood and accepted by the science community, nor should it be surprising. One study showed that finger print evidence used in forensics has a false negative rate of 7.5%. That's why they don't only rely on fingerprint evidence to support a conviction in a court of law. The same is true with fossil study. There are many clocks, of which radioactive decay is ONLY one. I won't go into all of them, but if you actually read, you will find a wealth of information. One method is looking a the strata of fossil deposits. There has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER been a fossil found out of the order of sequence. To quote Dawkins who said it way better than I can, "not a single solitary fossil has ever been found before it could have evolved ... a good theory, a scientific theory, is one that is vulnerable to disproof, yet is not disproved. Evolution could so easily be disproved if just a single fossil turned up in the wrong date order." There has never been ONE humanoid fossil found anywhere near a dinosaur of any kind fossil.

      February 6, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
  7. Observer

    Nii Croffie,

    You have intelligent things to say and I agree with you. Ignor the child so lacking in integrity that he is using my name. They shouldn't allow children on here.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • Observer

      I've noticed that there are at least 2 legitimate "Observers" so I'll switch to one of my other handles. Good luck with the little trolls.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
  8. Jesus Loves To Watch When His Flock Are Doing the Nasty

    Just imagine what it is like to be a christian couple.....who must be thinking about Jesus watching while they have s&x.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:35 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      the mammalian. The cerrebellum contains the sub-conscious which emotes and the cerebrum contains the intellect which thinks. The cerebrum controls the pituitary gland too. Hence virtually all our thought processes are subject to the cerebellum. Emotional maturity is proven 2 enhance rational thought

      February 5, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
  9. Jimmy Swaggart

    Atheists get much better pu$$y!

    February 5, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
  10. Jimmy Swaggart

    GOD D@MN! That retarded doppelganger is still on here?

    February 5, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • retarded doppleganger


      February 5, 2012 at 6:35 pm |
  11. Rapper Pericox

    Too keep some of the definitions: Atheism is ignorance; agnosticism is also so by definition, acknowledged ignorance; but religion is just deluded massive ignorance.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
    • ?????

      It sounds like you are taking the middle ground.....sitting the fence as it were....which is probably the best.....since there is no evidence for or against "god". Good for you.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Your "definitions" are simply your opinion.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • TRH

      By definition? I don't think so. By definition atheism is the absence of belief that a deity exists. If atheism is ignorance "by definition" please be clear that that is your own, personal definition.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Don

      TRH I wish to apologize for an earlier comment, you are correct,I did not see it was a cut and paste of someone else's remarks and thus it is my bad. Once again, sorry for making an assumption about you based on my not reading completely. Peace.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • TRH


      No problem. Thanks.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:59 am |
  12. Perico

    Here we go, the religious sanctimony attacking again! When you will realize that s-e-x demand is a natural instinct, nothing you can stop, and so the offering of the oldest business of all. You may contain it for a while, but like a river and a dam, the water will flow sooner or later! Your repression results in big part in that “traffic” and illegal activity, if pros-ti-tu=tion was legal, regulated with the proper legal, security, and health backing this would not happen, or would happen to the minimum of other criminal activities. But of course, this is something that goes well beyond your bible/quran/etc constrained brain. Some day, when this self-righteous people get extinguished enough, some public official will have the balls to address this problem, as most developed countries have done already.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:12 pm |
    • George R

      You need to read your Bible. It is quite clear on s.e.xual morality, and you are out of step with it.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • Perico

      Sorry I got angry a little bit ago. I just have an ambition to be a gay male pro-st-itu-te and right now it's illegal. I'm waiting on it to be legal so I can recognize my dreams.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
    • Observer

      George R,

      The Bible says that divorcing and remarrying is adultery. There are FAR FAR MORE Christian adulterers than total number of gays. So why don't you address that MUCH MUCH BIGGER problem of Christian ADULTERERS?

      Just HYPOCRITICALLY pick and choose the sins you want to trash.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • Perico

      To the other perico that talks in my name: congratulations you could even spell my name right!

      February 5, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • Observer


      Apparently there is at least one child on here who is so lacking in intelligence that he won't even use a unique name and so lacking in any personal integrity that he can do this.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • sam

      George is out of step with the world. Get out more, George.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • TR6

      @ George R: ”You need to read your Bible. It is quite clear on s.e.xual morality, and you are out of step with it.”

      You actually need to start reading to bible… all of it, not just the parts your pastor suggests. It is full of $exual deviancy, accepted by, approved by and on occasion ordered by god or his top men. I suggest the book “The X – rated bible” it’s a collection of some of the more embarrassing parts of the bible quoted chapter and verse

      February 5, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • GodIsTheWay

      @Observer: You are correct that, within the Christian tradition, a lawful marriage (meaning within the Church, between baptised members) is NOT annullable. Divorce, in the word of Christ, is wrong. Moses was given permission to mention to the Jews that they could give their wives a bill of divorce, but Jesus makes certain they know it's because the Jews hearts were hardened to their wives, and also to God. God Himself has said that man should not be alone, thus was woman created.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • mtolivetyoungadults

      This story is not about s__ – it's about s___ TRAFFICKING. Those are not the same thing. Please read before commenting. No one is talking about ___ b/w consenting adults. TRAFFICKING is when someone is NOT WILLING and is forced to do it anyway. Understand why that is bad now and being fought? Sheesh.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
  13. Observer

    George R,

    The Bible NEVER mentions abortion and offers more to support it than to oppose it.

    Read it sometime.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:10 pm |
    • George R

      Of course it doesn't mention abortion. There was not medical way to have an abortion back then.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
    • Observer

      George R,

      "Of course it doesn't mention abortion. There was not medical way to have an abortion back then."

      Nonsense. Abortion has been traced back to 2700 BC.

      Please start doing some reseach.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • Sam Harris

      @George R, “20 percent of all recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage. There is an obvious truth here that cries out for acknowledgment: if God exists, He is the most prolific abortionist of all.”

      February 5, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • sam

      George seems to own only one book...and even then he's not that versed in it.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Don

      Observer, I like your style and your knowledge. Keep up the good work. I may have misspoke earlier when I said the word divine in speaking of my belief in a creator. I feel I am more of a deist rather than a theist. I believe there is possibly a creator but I feel it is not a personal creator and the creator could not even be min orly concerned in the life of man who is below minimal in ALL of the creation of the Universe or as I think, Universes.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • Observer


      Thank you.

      It's possible that both atheists and believers are wrong. For all we know, there could be a God, but one who's more like the more "liberal" Jesus in the Bible than the often vain, arrogant, mass-killer God of the Bible. Maybe the world was created by a committtee of zombies or maybe by gods named Moe-sus.Larry-sus, and Curly-sus and it came about when Curly-sus said "Hey, Moe-sus, watch this". You might find that insulting, but the truth is that no one can prove their side is right. We ALL need to be objective. (Have I destroyed your support of me?)

      February 5, 2012 at 11:00 pm |
  14. ashrakay

    Just to be clear, not all prost.it.ution is hum.an traffi.cking. I live in a country where prost.it.ution is legal and it's a business like any other business. Women are treated well and choose this profession of their own vo.lition. There's nothing more im.moral about paying for s e x than there is paying for a mass:age. I think the problem in America is that prost.it.ution is equated with imm.orality and so it becomes a bla.ck ma.rket business similar to dr.ugs. While this lady is doing good in the name of religion, I don't think you need look very far to see that religion is the reason this ille.gal trade is going on to begin with.

    February 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
    • George R

      The Bible is quite clear: all s.e.x outside of marriage is immoral. If prosti.tution is legal in your country, then I maintain that your country is immoral and does not have have God's favor. Also, prost.itutes are victims – they think that the only way to make money is to compromise their morals and are taken advantage of.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, If you take your morality from the bible then you must also believe the m.urder of women and children is acceptable as god commanded it on more than one occasion.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
    • George R


      Yes, God can be terrible. But in all cases where he made such commandments, the actions were to be taken against immoral people or people who were worshiping false gods.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, Also you clearly have the typical biblical believe that women are lesser beings and should be treated as 2nd class citizens. The belief that all women who sell s.ex are victims implies you think very little of women. It's the kind of black and white, 2-dimensional thinking that you'd expect from children. Where do you draw the line on the selling of s.ex? Photography? Marriage?

      February 5, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, If that's your guide for morality, then clearly you've lost the high ground in this argument.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • George R

      You betcha. The Bible is THE standard for morality. As far as where I draw the line, my opinion is that por.no.graphy is prost.itution. So is marriage for money. S.e.x is only moral in a loving marriage.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, Enjoy your microcosm.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
    • sam

      George – 'God's favor'? LOL

      February 5, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • TRH

      GEORGE R.............

      "Hom.os.exuals are going to burn in hell."

      Are you by chance familiar with the name Fred Phelps?

      February 5, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • TR6

      @George R: “@ashrakay Yes, God can be terrible. But in all cases where he made such commandments, the actions were to be taken against immoral people or people who were worshiping false gods.”

      How can the slaughter of babies and small children ever be justified? How can they be immoral or worship a false god? Because your god and his top men order and take part in the slaughter of many, many little ones. I can include quotes with chapter and verse if you like

      February 5, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, While you're digging yourself into a deep moral hole, would you care to share your beliefs on slavery? The bible does not condemn it. Quite the contrary, it provide guidelines for keeping slaves. Are you willing to go on the record to say that you find slavery acceptable under certain conditions? Maybe you're the kind of guy that would really enjoy this passage:
      Exodus 21:7-11
      "7And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

      8If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

      9And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

      10If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

      11And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

      February 5, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • mtolivetyoungadults

      Any expert in human trafficking will tell you that in the countries where pro--- is legal, human trafficking flourishes all the more. Legalizing it does more to hurt the cause than you obviously realize. You are severely misinformed.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @mtolivetyoungadults, Statistics please. As I actually live in a country where it is legal and I am acquainted with people in the biz, you'll have to provide more than conjecture to convince me. Without evidence, your statements are no different than any other religion.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:46 am |
  15. meh

    God is a lie. Deal with it.

    February 5, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • George R

      Atheism is a lie. Deal with it.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
    • Crad

      You are a troll. Were dealing with it.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
  16. Andrew

    I think what's interesting is how the definition of "victim" has evolved over the last 10 or so years

    February 5, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
  17. Prayer changes things

    Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things,

    February 5, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
    • Observer

      Blind acceptance of anything without rational thought is bad for the world.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Nothing is worse for this world than atheism. Nothing.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      The fallacy of rationality most atheists cling to is very funny. It is this same delusion tht motivted Pol Pot and go. Alas Pride is a very consuming emotion. Humans are emotional animals. They need emotional maturity to be rational. Good emotions=clear thought-life.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
    • Observer

      @Pervert Alert,
      Yes I am. I'm just having issues staying comfortable with being out of the closet yet. I tend to disagree with myself, sometimes publically, about it.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by Nii Croffie contains both the circu-mstantial ad hominem fallacy and the Appeal to Emotions fallacy.


      February 5, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Indeed de rational is a function of emotion so much so dat de ' I think so I am' philosophy when revised scientifically by a psychaitrist reads 'I emote so I am'. The division of de human brain to reflect evolution as mammalian, reptilian and amphibian does not work as the reptilian controls the ..

      February 5, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      mammalian. The cerebellum contains the sub-conscious which emotes seems to control the cerebellum which contains the intellect that thinks. It controls the pituitary gland too. Thus our thought processes are controlled by the cerebellum. Emotional maturity therefore enhances rational thought.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • TRH


      "Nothing is worse for this world than atheism. Nothing."

      [sigh] Well, watch the news, read history.....blah blah blah ad infinitum. But I would truly like to see your explanation behind this profundity.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • TR6

      @ An inconvenient truth: “Nothing is worse for this world than atheism. Nothing.”

      Typical irrational, paranoid Christian. Believes nuclear waste, Osama Binlaudin, the 911 hijackers, the murder of abortion doctors by Christians and Harry Camping’s little multimillion dollar oopsie about the end of the world are all better than atheism. Also pollution, global warming and Basher Al Assad’s human rights indiscretions

      February 5, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Appeal to emotions fallacy? Then u give a link. Why are u bereft of ur own original thoughts that u need to borrow another's wisdom (emotional maturity). The best link I will give u is a Bible. Did u know that the design of the Tabernacle is a functional design of the human brain? Read and find out.

      February 5, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Atheists promote this idea that religious zombies commit crimes which atheists will never commit. History questions this assertion squarely as all religions atheism included have done same given political backing and unbridled freedom.

      February 5, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Posts by Nii Croffie contain a remarkable multitude of fallacies, one of the recent ones being the Begging The Question fallacy. The "bullfighter" example in the following link is an appropriate one for comparison.


      February 5, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @An inconvenient truth, Are you saying that the Spanish flu, famine, a life-ending asteroid from space, our galaxy's inevitable collision with the Andromeda galaxy, the eventual extinction of our sun, etc, are all better than atheism?
      Imagine a world without Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Kevin Bacon, George Clooney, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, George Orwell, Ayn Rand, H.G. Wells, Bjork, Geddy Lee, Sergei Prokofiev, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Eddie Vedder, Giuseppe Verdi, Roger Waters, Albert Camus, David Hume, Friedrich Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell, Sigmund Freud, Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Stephen Hawking and Thomas Edison. THAT is your world without atheism. Congratulations on showing your immense ignorance and desire to remain in the dark ages. You are a poster child those who are trying to decide whether or not to let go of god. Please keep up the good work. We are grateful for your contribution to our numbers.

      February 6, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
  18. Brian

    One last comment and then I'm done with this article because it is just too funny reading these comments. My gut actually is beginning to cramp. Every person commenting acts as if he or she is certain about the most uncertain thing known to mankind. There is sufficient proof to support evolution, but I won't get into that now. Let me just say this: The fact that no one knows if there is a god is exactly why you should not believe. Faith is a dangerous word because people confuse it for fact. It is only a word, and people like to toss it around as if it proves that their delusion is somehow true.

    February 5, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • George R

      The existence of God is a fact. Evolution, on the other hand, is a mere theory.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, Yes George, it's a theory. If you wish to make yourself literate, I suggest you learn the definition of "theory" as it pertains to evolution. This is from the Oxford English Dictionary. Note that evolution is listed as the first definition. As a religious person, I suspect your wouldn't want facts to get in the way of your beliefs, so I suspect my time is wasted on you.

      theory |ˈθɪəri|
      noun ( pl. theories )
      a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained: Darwin's theory of evolution.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • George R


      The operative word is supposition. It is unproven and all speculation. Much more so than God.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, Well, like I was saying, I don't suspect you'd let something like reality get in the way of your fantasies. There is overwhelming evidence that points to the system of natural selection. You have to really blind yourself to these inconvenient facts to remain complacent in your belief of god. Yet, there is not 1 piece of evidence that points to a god. If fact, the more we know, the less and less place we have for god in our existence. People that cannot see the reality of natural selection are either willfully ignorant, or lack the capability of understanding the science.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
    • George R

      The very existence of the universe points to the existence of God.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • Observer

      "The very existence of the universe points to the existence of God."

      The very existence of the universe points to the existence of a committee of zombies that set it up.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @George R, Given the countless "mistakes" in the human body, such as the laryngeal nerve, the eye being built backwards creating a blind spot where the nerve bundles are, and the route taken by the vas deferens, it points at best to a lazy and imperfect designer.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • TRH

      George R......

      You appear to support the concept of intelligent design (I think). You believe evolution occurred but it is such a singular and miraculously complex event that it could only have been set in motion by a divine hand. Is that about right? Of all the "anti-evolution" arguments it's the one with the most rationale that any person of critical thinking could even hope to debate.

      I certainly hope you are not of the "young earth" "School of thought, which, incidentally, pretty much died out as a serious counter argument to Darwinism in the late 19th Century. It resurfaced relatively recently with educationally-challenged evangelicals.

      If you are of the former, we can take seriously. If the latter, you will be ripped a new one.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • TR6

      @ George R: “The very existence of the universe points to the existence of God.”

      Please provide evidence as to which god, as most religions claim their god did it

      February 5, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Believer

      Natural Selection is a fact, the theory that we all came from single celled organisms does not. There has been no proof of this happening. We have never seen species change into other species. We just see variations within the same species. We do not see DNA being beneficially gained, we only see it being lost. If the earth was millions of years old then carbon 14 would have reached equilibrium in our atmosphere right now, but it has not.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:07 am |
    • Observer

      "We have never seen species change into other species."

      Man has reliably reported what is happening for maybe 3,000 years and to this day new animals are still being discovered.

      With the earth likely tens of millions of years old, 3,000 years is a joke.

      February 6, 2012 at 12:15 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      How long is a "generation" to God (as in: This generation shall not pass). The answer, my friends, is right there in the Bible.
      "The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away."
      26 Psalms 90:10
      This is confirmed in the Gospel of Matthew.
      "Therefore all the generations from Abraham down to David are 14 generations; and from David down to the Babylonian captivity are 14 generations; and from the Babylonian captivity down to messiah, are 14 generations."
      – Matthew 1:17
      Matthew is using the Psalm 90 definitions of Generation in order to tell a specific chronological story.
      So! 70-80 years is a generation.

      Next up – the accuracy of radioactive decay as a means of dating.
      Carbon dating has it's limits. It is effectively useless for anything more than 50,000 years old and the material must be or.ganic in nature. Certain things can and do throw off the decay rates of carbon 14 atoms, like huge volcano eruptions, meteor strikes and other disasters – but these things have been discovered and doc/umented with the appropriate consideration taken in calculating age.
      Regardless, radiactive decay is but one of many tools geologists can use to date ancient material.
      Geochronology has advanced a great deal in the last few decades. Beyond carbon dating, scientists measure the age of fossils by examining Cosmogenic Nuclides, optically stimulated luminescence, cathodoluminescence, thermoluminescence, Dendrochronology, Ice Cores, Lichenometry, varves, Magnetostratigraphy, and Tephrochronology.
      The combination of data from all these methods gives an accurate representation of teh age of materials.

      For the Creationists out there – a hint: If your information is coming from the Discovery Inst/itute, it is bunk.
      The Creation Museum is nothing but evangelical propaganda made by a group of people who want to use Creationism/Intelligent Design to "to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies", inserting it as a wedge to separate science from its allegiance to "atheistic naturalism".

      February 6, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • ashrakay

      A little more information related to what @Doc Vestibule is saying. Carbon-14 isotope dating does have limitations. Carbon-14 is only about 5730 years, which limits the length of time you can measure and it is only accurate organic materials. That's why there are other isotope clocks which have a longer half-life to judge greater amounts of time. Most commonly used is the Potassium-40 > Argon-40 isotope which has a half-life of 1,260,000,000 years. All isotope clocks have about a 1% margin of error, which is pretty low considering the amount of times being dealt with. As Doc Vestibule rightly, there are so many other natural clocks that ALL line up to show consistent time frames which tell us the earth's age is around 4.6billion years.

      February 6, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
  19. Brian

    so many of you christians keep saying that you do good deeds in the name of god. How about you do good deeds in the name of yourserlf. If you need a book to live your life according to and need that book to tell you how to be a good person then you are not a very good person to begin with or you don't have any common sense. Your lack of logic and rationale bewilders me.

    February 5, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      How do u do on the Ten Commandments Test? Or the Fruit of the Spirit Test or the Agape Love Test? If u forward satisfactory results then please u r free to teach us an alternative otherwise allow as to gain emotional maturity the way we know best. Emotional maturity enables rational thought.

      February 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
    • Robert

      Your lack of compassion bewilders me. These people are trying to help unfortunate victims of human trafficking, not banging on your door to sell you on their faith. Leave this kind of close minded thinking elsewhere. You don't have to have a book to tell you these people are trying to make a positive impact on their community.

      February 5, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by Nii Croffie is an instance of the Appeal to Emotions fallacy.


      February 5, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • TR6

      @Robert: “Your lack of compassion bewilders me. These people are trying to help unfortunate victims of human trafficking, not banging on your door to sell you on their faith. “

      If it wasn’t for the Bronze Age, draconian set of morals Christians have managed to enshrine in our legal code, prosti-tution would not be illegal and this “problem” would not exist. You want us to thank the person who stabbed us for giving us a band aid

      February 5, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • mtolivetyoungadults

      Oh, Brian, do share with me how many hours you spent this past week volunteering. I can't wait to hear.

      February 5, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
  20. JuQuin

    I am so happy to have read this story. This is what true Christianity is about. Christ indeed loves everyone and never judges anyone and he is always happy to help those in need of healing whether it is physically or spiritually.

    February 5, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      True love is to love ur neighbor as yourself, just as he or she is just the way he or she is no matter what because YHWH loves us all as Himself with all His Life just as we are just the way we are no matter what. To make this your one goal in life and your dominant thought.

      February 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • Don

      Yeah, uh huh, that is why more people have been killed and murdered in the name of god than any other cause in history ROFLMFAO!

      February 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • Observer

      Good. Please pass that word to all your fellow Christians who are busy trashing gays and pro-choice people.

      February 5, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • George R

      Hom.os.exuals are going to burn in hell. Christians are trying to save them. Same thing for the pro-abortion people.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:03 pm |
    • Don

      Hey George, wanna meet up in my l-u-s-t nest for a little a-n-a-l action?

      February 5, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
    • Crad

      Don. Thats really not true, but a lot of people use that quote. Shame, in an effort to be free youve enslaved yourself with old trite sayings.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:07 pm |
    • pervert alert

      Observer gay is a word stolen by qu eers to attempt to legitimize or take the harsh edge off their unnatural obscene acts. Qu eers trash themselves long before anyone with moral character gets to them.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Once someone listed the top20 attrocities committed by people against each other. Of this list only 3 were truly religious but he gave 13 off as religious because he was a religious atheist and didn't want his religion to look bad. All religious people r de same. Spirituality is not religion-based.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
    • Observer

      @Pervert Alert: I only care because of being gay myself.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • TRH

      DON................Just a little blast from the recent past to set you straight, just in case you missed it. If you DIDN'T miss it, I think it's worth another look.

      Have a nice day.

      Sorry TRH, I understand you 'think' you are the Great Educator here, but you are JUST as self righteous as the rest of theose misguided who believe in myths. When you get over yourself come back and see us ok? One thing that is evident, with all the 'supposed' educators out there, with so many ideas being put forth as the truth, there are really some of these 'self appointed educators' who are lieing or have NO idea what the truth really is. Thank you for your input, but just like ANYONE else's opinion, yours does not carry anymore weight than anyone else's. But I bet you can SEE god form where you sit on your mighty throne can't you?
      February 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm | Report abuse |


      As an atheist, it is refreshing to me to see evangelicals doing something positive in regards to human decency. Kudos!"

      DON.....................The above is a cut and paste of one of the first posts on this forum @4:04PM.....by ME. Guess you missed it.
      February 5, 2012 at 4:50 pm | Report abuse |

      February 5, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      A spiritual man is one who has chosen to love his neighbor as himself. All others are religious whether they claim belief in God, gods or no God or no gods. They will protect their worldview as the best even when it is irrational to do so without committing evil action.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • Observer

      @Pervert Alert,

      There is a person using the name of "Observer" who is gay, but I made the original comment and am not gay.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • pervert alert

      Neither is the pervert who stole your handle, as mentioned gay is a stolen word. They are perverts, qu eers or ho mo se xuals, dirty disgusting in your face extreme minority.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Why Observer what is wrong with gays? I think you have identified with their cause so u might as well be one. As Akans say. The older person who looks on for children to eat snakes is also considered a snake-eater.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • Observer

      @Pervert Alert,
      Yes, I am gay. I'm just having issues staying comfortable with being out of the closet yet. I tend to disagree with myself, sometimes publically, about it.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
    • Observer

      @Pervert Alert,

      As you can tell, there is a child on here using my name. Unfortunately he is too immature and too ignorant to have thoughts of his own and so has to make up things under someone else's name. Ignor him. Everyone else is, too.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • pervert alert

      Been there done that. There is something pathetic about a person who steals a name on an anonymous blog, the thief already admits to being sick. No confusion here appreciate your honest discussion.

      February 5, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • Observer

      pervert alert,

      Do heteros engage in ANY disgusting obscene perversions?

      February 5, 2012 at 6:59 pm |
    • Shishir

      In my experience with SI, aaluclty no One of my teachers knew I cut and she didn't tell anybody because she knew I'd trusted her enough to say the truth and she'd completely lose that if she told. I also made a huge argument for why it would make it worse if my parents were told. I ended up going to my guidance counselor on my own a short while after that, though.As for teachers aaluclty noticing cuts and bruises, though, one thing I've found is that I really did not have to hide them at school unless they were extremely serious/obviously self-inflicted. Even if it's pretty bad damage, if I kept the bruises on my lower arms, you know, places that get hurt from sports, etc, they tend not to comment because it's probably an accident. But if it's a cluster of cuts, that just screams SI, and you will get a comment if they notice. (Noticing is another story. I kept my head down and my arms under my table all through class, and nobody noticed me.) Honestly I think it depends on the teacher and also your behavior in that class. If a sudden change in your grades or behavior happens alongside injuries, that might make them more likely to notice.

      April 3, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.