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February 12th, 2012
10:17 AM ET

At church where Houston got start, congregants gather to mourn and reminisce

By the CNN Wire Staff

NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) - As the sun rose the morning after Whitney Houston's death, congregants at the Baptist church where she began her singing career as a member of the junior gospel choir gathered to mourn, pray and share stories of the pop superstar.

The Houston family has been "inseparable" from New Hope Baptist Church, Pastor Joe A. Carter said in an interview Saturday night, and Whitney would continue to visit throughout her life.

Carter led the congregation in a prayer service for Whitney Houston on Sunday morning, "petitioning the Lord on behalf of Whitney's daughter, her mother, and the entire Houston Family," according to a statement on the church's website.

Houston, 48, was found dead Saturday by her bodyguard at a Beverly Hills, California, hotel.

Whitney Houston's mom, Cissy Houston - herself a renowned gospel singer - was director of sacred music at the church for 54 years and is still a member there.

Asked whether he had spoken to Cissy Houston, Carter said Sunday he had, and "she needs our prayers and support."

"Whitney was a mother, a daughter, a sister, and that's the focus that we want to keep in front of everyone today, to continue to lift the family up and respect this time of grief."

Those arriving for the service Sunday at the large brick church in a residential stretch of Newark were quiet and somber. Reporters were not allowed inside. One woman leaving Sunday services said the flock had prayed for Houston's family.

Church member Karen Winfield told CNN New York affiliate WABC that she has followed the Houstons’ musical careers for 60 years and has heard Whitney and Cissy Houston sing at the church.

“Her and her family have been real legends up North,” she said Sunday, referring to Whitney.  "So I'm here to support them at this time of sorrow.”

“I haven't slept - I've been up all night,” she said. “Just going over, listening to her songs and reminiscing about her life. And what's going to happen to her daughter. Her mom. Her brothers. But she's in a better place.”

Alvin Sims, associate minister at New Hope, called Houston a “powerful, powerful woman.”

“I have never heard a voice like hers, never” he told WABC. “That certainly is a gift from God.”

Whitney was born in Newark in 1963 and was soloing in the junior choir by age 11, according to the All Music Guide. "Whitney's mother and cousins nurtured her passion for gospel music since birth," according to Houston's official website. Her cousins include singers Dee Dee Warwick and Dionne Warwick, and her godmother was Aretha Franklin.

As a teenager, Houston would accompany her mother in concert.

A video posted on the Internet sharing site YouTube shows a young Houston singing the lead on the gospel song, "Have a Little Talk with Jesus," at the church.

The church's history is "deeply associated with the power of Whitney's voice and the influence that she's had, not only in this church but across the world," Carter said. "We're saddened at this loss."

One of the country's highest profile pastors, T.D. Jakes, said Sunday that Houston had completed work on a remake of the film "Sparkle," on which Jakes is a producer.

"We ask the world to join us in lifting up Whitney's family in prayer and ask God for their strength and comfort during this devastatingly difficult time," the Dallas, Texas based Jakes said in a statement. "At the apex of her career, Whitney had no peer, with a voice that shaped a generation. She has left behind a musical and film legacy that will endure."

Cissy Houston got her musical start in her family's gospel troupe and went on to record her own albums and to provide backup vocals to well-known soul and pop acts.

New Hope Baptist began operating in a Newark home in 1903, originally led by a preacher from North Carolina.

"As the world mourns the loss of one of the all-time greats, we in Newark feel an especially deep sadness," Newark Mayor Corey Booker said in a statement Saturday night. "She went from a Newark church to the global stage, but she always remained a deep part of our pride and collective heart."

"This church, the church that Whitney grew up in, is calling for prayer for her daughter, Bobbi Kristina, her mother ... and the entire Houston family and Whitney's fans," Carter said, appealing for privacy on behalf of the church and Houston's family.

–CNN's Poppy Harlow, Deb Feyerick, Laura Dolan and Dan Gilgoff contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Christianity • Music • Uncategorized

soundoff (314 Responses)
  1. RigthTurnClyde

    Sad to have lost her (tragic) .. and Elvis the same way and Hank Williams their gifts of song and smiles Nat King Cole, Johnny Cash, Conway T.w.i.t.t.y., Hank Williams (the icon)(died 29 y.o. – alcohol) ... every one of them gave wonderful gifts W Billy Holiday, the Great American Songbook, 12 Bar, D.o.o.W.o.p, Bebop, Samba .. She is greatly missed.

    February 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
  2. Wartney Husdumb

    I b hawngry fo some doo doo... Bobbeh...Feed me!!

    February 13, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Anderson Pooper

      Look at the picture below...Wartneys mouth is approaching bobby hot fudge filled An Us in anticipation of the hotBrown.

      February 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
  3. Brown B

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QaI-M9sxW4&feature=player_detailpage

    February 13, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
  4. mike howell

    Will they be serving food? I'm starving.

    February 13, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • joe

      I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE. WITH PHIL SPECTOR AND HE IS STILL IN SHOCK. HE SAID THAT YOU SHOULD ONLY TAKE DRUGS IN THE MORNING WITH A CUP OF COFFEE

      February 13, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
  5. hamburger steak

    Wartney is a doo doo eatin fool.

    February 13, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
  6. I left some doo doo in your vegetable crisper

    I want to leave some HOT doodee in wartneys casket. Or at least cut a hot *POOT* and then quickly close the lid.

    February 13, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
  7. Fanny B Tender

    All the nig a boos are comin out in force to sing the praises of their latest drug addict gone 6 feet under. No wonder the jiggy community is never taken seriously...MJ, Eddie Long, Wartney, BIG, shupac fudgepack....LMAO...LOSERS!!

    February 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
  8. The Good News

    RIP: is an expression wishing eternal rest and peace to someone who has died. These words convey the impression that the person may be alive in an unknown place. But what does the Bible really teach about the status of a person that has died. Our Lord Jesus Christ experienced the death of his good friend Lazarus. He told his disciples: “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep” (John 11:11). As you may have noticed Christ made it clear that Lazarus had died and he compared it to sleep. This coincides with the words in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 that says: “For the living our conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished…” Lazarus’ sister; Martha, said to Jesus “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day” (John 11:24). This proves that she was aware; as all of them at the time were aware, that when a person dies they are at rest until resurrection, that will take place in God’s kingdom. (Matthew 6:9, 10) For all those that perish in this system of things they have been promised a resurrection of eternal life. (John 5:28, 29) I say this: Our friend Whitney Houston has gone to rest; our Lord Jesus Christ will awaken her from her sleep on the last day. My sincere condolences to her children and the Houston family.

    February 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • jimtanker

      Christianity – The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

      February 13, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tanker, sad that you and Ricky Gervais are stunted at a 3rd grade level of learning Jesus' truth.

      I guess we'll have to wait to see if any of you graduate grade school.

      Amen.

      February 13, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • .....

      "I guess we'll have to wait to see if any of you graduate grade school."

      pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot – that log in your eye is huge!

      February 13, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
  9. T$F%

    MILLIONS TO BE ASSASSINATED FOR THE SAKE OF $$$ LIABILITIES (mk-ultra, chip implants, electroshocks etc. performed on them) AND NEW WORLD ORDER (multiculturalism = terrorism) POLITICAL AGENDA KNOWN AS "YOU ARE NEXT" (financial liabilities are too expensive for the government and it is cheaper to get rid of you instead!)

    NOW YOU KNOW WHAT ORWELLIAN UNITED STATES CONGRESS(USSR#2 which consists of lawyers or what are liars and physicians...lawyers, so crime per physicians can get away with it) AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS WORLDWIDE ARE SO BUSY WITH WHEN PLAYING/CLOWNING (acting) IN FRONT OF CAMERAS ONLY HOW SOMETHING HAVE TO BE DONE(deliberately omitting/delaying facts of genocide as seen on this complain) ROMNEY'S FATHER ALIKE WHO EXCELLED AFTER GM WAS DELIBERATELY BANKRUPT(LIKE AMERICA TODAY = success based on deliberate sabotage = known as grand treason) !!!


    LEARN TRUTH ABOUT UNITED NATIONS, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL AS WELL AS NEW WORLD ORDER(MULTICULTURALISM = TERRORISM) GOVERNMENTS(Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) !!! NOT THERE TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS, BUT TO DENY YOUR RIGHT TO EXISTENCE !!!

    ABDUCTIONS / FORCED BRAIN CHIP IMPLANTS / BLACKLISTING / FORCEFUL UNEMPLOYMENT / MK-ULTRA BRAINWASHING AGAINST WHITE(under "NAZI" lie) CIVILIAN POPULATION TODAY IN 2011/2012 ACROSS THE EUROPE AND NORTHERN AMERICA !!!WHY TO ACCEPT LIABILITIES FOR CRIMES COMMITTED WHEN WE CAN SIMPLY ASSASSINATE OUR VICTIMS(YOU) THANKS TO HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS AND FREE PRESS/MEDIA(most severe censorship of genocide ever !!!) Related to WHITES NO LONGER WELCOME IN AMERICA

    February 13, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
  10. fukm

    All the times I had her while all along, at one time she was hot, Bobby B. really screwed her up.

    February 13, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
  11. Rainer Braendlein

    @dats right@Rainer Braendlein

    I am a layman. I am somewhat influenced by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Reading Bonhoeffer makes it clear that the teachings of the current churches are quite distorted, I mean the current teachings of the churches have not much to do with the genuine teachings of Jesus. Thus, I feel urged to make Christian comments, although I am not a specialist. There is such a high need.

    You may read the book "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

    Bonhoeffer said that grace is costly. That simply means that a Christian who believes in Jesus should not merely believe in God's forgiveness, but also follow Jesus in daily life, which means a lot of sacrifice in a highly secular world. Discipleship and forgiveness belong together. Forgiveness exists only within a life of discipleship, whereby a true Christian doesn't want to earn forgiveness by his discipleship, but discipleship is just natural for him.

    The great problem of many "Christians" is that they want to get forgiveness, but don't want to follow Jesus, because they fear the trials of daily life, when they would really behave as Christians.

    February 13, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
  12. Answer

    The power of death. There is no escape.

    February 13, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
  13. Rabbit One

    Here's a thought provoking great concept – in this life we are not to judge others – and that way we can focus on the artistry and struggle throughout life of Whitney – she was real talent , she was grand and did well – if she stumbled or had hardships we are perfectly not to judge – no need to judge – nature and life and death love all people equally – so we must live and love and Whitney was great – i tell you that

    February 13, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      I can on principal agree with your belief but the question would judge her if she were just another person in society that was not a talent. Maybe when it comes to wasted talent the example to the next generations of her negatives might save the future singers.

      February 13, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • dats right@Rabbit One

      "so we must live and love and Whitney was great." I MUST do no such thing. She was an over rated coke head.

      February 13, 2012 at 12:11 pm |
  14. Rainer Braendlein

    "Our hearts, prayers and deepest symphaty to the bereaved family."

    I join that expression of sympathy.

    It is only regretable that she consumed drugs and was obviously not very happy in her private life. I don't want to blame her for that. I think it is more and more a problem of our society as a whole that we have stopped to be truthful. We act everyday and try to conceal our personal mishap. We pretend happiness, but in fact we are unhappy. There is a discrepancy between our public life and our private life. That should not be.

    I think there is a basic general problem: The pop stars try to represent a world of wealth, happiness, freedom, etc. (the world of glamor). However, this world doesn't really exist, it is just fictional (glamor) or at least this world is not a world of happiness, but just a world of brutal business or making money. In fact, the show business is just a business like any other one and it is all about making profit. The producers make much money by producing a big lie or show every day. Everyday they sell us a bubble of pure delusion. In a way, the whole show business is a satanic pseudo-worship service.

    I myself have finished to listen pop songs. Sometimes I could enjoy the melodies, but the lyrics are mostly so meaningless that I could start to cry.

    It is high time that we become truthful again.

    We should stop acting like the (drug-addicted) pop stars and admit our unhap, so that we may become really happy again.

    How to become happy again?

    We need the gospel of Jesus Christ (I know that Whitney Houston, was a Baptist, but in my sight the Baptists are a re-baptizing cult, which preaches a false gospel):

    Jesus has borne our sins, when he died for us on the cross. That is the gospel. Believe that and get baptized (if you have yet received infant baptism, don't get baptized again, but refer to your infant baptism). By faith and baptism you get physically connected with Christ's atonement, that means you have died and resurrected together with Jesus. By the power of Christ's death and resurrection you can overcome your old man of sin or your old sinful life and begin a life of Christian love. By practising Christian love the Oldtestament law is automatically fulfilled. Don't focus too much on the forgiveness, which God gives you indeed for free, but really try to live a Christian life by the power of God's releasing gospel. Forgiveness and New Life in Christ are a unit. You cannot receive forgiveness seperated from a New Life in Christ. God wants to give you forgiveness and a New Life at the some time as a unit. Either you take both presents or you will get nothing at all. At many places of the New Testament we can read that it is our responsibility to keep the faith.

    You may read the book "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

    February 13, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • dats right

      Did you really just sit at your computer and type that crap?

      February 13, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Yes, I did. I have no problem producing the longest pieces at any time, as I am not burdened with the distractions of work or friends or hobbies.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • dats right@Rainer Braendlein

      Are you a Minister/Preacher/Rabbi/Deacon/Priest?

      February 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @dats right@Rainer Braendlein

      I am a layman. I am somewhat influenced by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Reading Bonhoeffer makes it clear that the teachings of the current churches are quite distorted, I mean the current teachings of the churches have not much to do with the genuine teachings of Jesus. Thus, I feel urged to make Christian comments, although I am not a specialist. There is such a high need.

      You may read the book "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

      Bonhoeffer said that grace is costly. That simply means that a Christian who believes in Jesus should not merely believe in God's forgiveness, but also follow Jesus in daily life, which means a lot of sacrifice in a highly secular world. Discipleship and forgiveness belong together. Forgiveness exists only within a life of discipleship, whereby a true Christian doesn't want to earn forgiveness by his discipleship, but discipleship is just natural for him.

      The great problem of many "Christians" is that they want to get forgiveness, but don't want to follow Jesus, because they fear the trials of daily life, when they would really behave as Christians.

      The beginning of discipleship is God's call. Today God calls through the church by Holy Baptism. Infant baptism is valid.

      February 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • dats right@@Rainer Braendlein

      Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

      February 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • Hayden71

      "We should stop acting like the (drug-addicted) pop stars and admit our unhap, so that we may become really happy again.
      How to become happy again?
      We need the gospel of Jesus Christ"

      Really??? Is that why Jesus died...to make us happy???

      This kind of gospel is what makes false converts.

      We don't need "happiness" to be made right with God...we need "righteousness".

      This is one of many things that

      February 13, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Hayden71

      "We should stop acting like the (drug-addicted) pop stars and admit our unhap, so that we may become really happy again.
      How to become happy again?
      We need the gospel of Jesus Christ"

      Really??? Is that why Jesus died...to make us happy???

      This kind of gospel is what makes false converts.

      We don't need "happiness" to be made right with God...we need "righteousness".

      Happiness is nice but has little to do with having all of your sins forgiven.

      February 13, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Rainer Braendlein, as a Christian the only book that needs to be read, comprehended and applied to our lives is Jesus' teachings from the Bible. All the rest is for research or entertainment.

      Amen.

      February 13, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wrong, malaprop-breath. You, HS, need to consult a dictionary and apply it to your life, since you spend most of it here.

      February 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things!

    February 13, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Nope

      !*The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs."""""`~~~~

      February 13, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Nope

      !The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs."""""`~~~~

      February 13, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Dats right

      LOL! No it does not you ding bat.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • nope

      nope

      February 13, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Yup

      "nope

      nope"

      More desperation from the xtians! LMAO!

      February 13, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • rizzle

      Those that say 'prayer and simply giving back to God' doesn't work, hasn't ever tried it in their life. I'll be they've tried every other thing on the planet except that. Life changes and those of us that know it sit back and watch. Doesn't mean we don't have our own struggles, but life changes for the better all around when you let God take the wheel. I'll step off my soap box now. Your turn Trolls..

      February 13, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • bigot

      "Those that say 'prayer and simply giving back to God' doesn't work, hasn't ever tried it in their life. I'll be they've tried every other thing on the planet except that. Life changes and those of us that know it sit back and watch. Doesn't mean we don't have our own struggles, but life changes for the better all around when you let God take the wheel. I'll step off my soap box now. Your turn Trolls.."

      You have no empirical data proving that prayer works. Sure, statistically speaking, given a long enough period of time anything could happen. Doesn't mean that it happens because of prayer.

      February 13, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • Know What

      rizzle,

      Listen, I was a devout believer for over 40 years. I prayed a whole lot. I thought that I was really in communication with the divine, including all of the chills, thrills, thu.mpy heartbeat, etc. Good things happened... along with bad things - happiness and sadness, joys and tragedies. I gradually began to see that there is no-one there. I was talking to myself. I have not prayed in around 20 years now, and guess what?... same/same - happiness and sadness, joys and tragedies, good things and bad things.

      Pray if you like, but there is no evidence that it changes anything other than you and your idea of having some power and control over things that you do not.

      February 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • just sayin

      Know what know what,you never knew God, you thought you were a believer but were deceived, had you continued to judgement you would have been told 'begone I never knew you'. Those God chooses are never lost to Him.

      February 13, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      just sayin what must I do to be saved?

      February 13, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you want to ask just insane a question, be brave enough to post under your own name, gormless fuckwit.

      February 13, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • just sayin

      Romans 10:8 – 13

      February 13, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you have more dummy handles than anyone on this site. Hypocrite. Your nastiness wreaks from your postings no matter what phony handle you use.

      Amen.

      February 13, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Nope, following the ways of man is not going to save your soul.

      Amen.

      February 13, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • Nope

      "following the ways of man is not going to save your soul."

      LMAO – the ways of man wrote your bible, guess your soul isn't worth crap! LOL!

      February 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
    • ....

      "Your nastiness wreaks from your postings no matter what phony handle you use."

      Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot – that log in your eye must be huge!

      February 13, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
    • Know What

      just sayin : "Those God chooses are never lost to Him."

      You, sir/madam, are a desp'icable twit.

      I implore you to continue posting your garbage - you are doing more to disprove your sort of deism than any non-believer could ever do.

      February 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bwah! "Wreaks"? No, honey-pie, it's "reeks". Don't you ever get tired of being stupid?

      February 13, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
  16. palintwit

    I didn't care for her music, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that she was a waste of oxygen. Now take Sarah Palin. She's a waste of oxygen.

    February 13, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • cocoloco

      Start to sing for "the baptist" god, and end up singing for the devil! That's the path of "gospel" singers. Remember Elvis! She is going to hell, people, since she made a covevant with the devil and that's where her children go! Don't fool yourselves!

      Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

      Houston is not RIP! Not according to God's Word; either, you like it or not! Make Peace with GOD (JesusChrist)!

      February 13, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • jimtanker

      @cocoloco

      Dont you ever feel bad judging people like you do? You really think that wishing that someone goes somewhere where they are tourtured for eternity is a good thing? And do say well it is their choice. No, it is your choice to believe in something that would permit something like that to happen. Your religion is silly and destructive.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • rick

      cocoloco: god may not be mocked, but the pompous jacka$$es who purport to speak for him will be.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • palintwit

      @ cocoloco... there is no god.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Letter to Scissors

      Dear Scissors,

      I feel your pain.....no one wants to run with me either.

      Sincerely,
      Sarah Palin

      February 13, 2012 at 10:49 am |
  17. Dats right

    Another coke head dies. Big deal. And Beonce's baby is ugly. What did they name it, Blue Spider or something?

    February 13, 2012 at 10:16 am |
  18. myweightinwords

    I find it very, very sad that so many have so many good things to say, so many wishes for Whitney's life to have been different now, when there's nothing they can do to help her...and yet in her life, when she needed that help, she was alone, written off as an addict, ridiculed and dismissed.

    She was a talented, beautiful woman. And yes, an addict. And like so many who once entertained us, she was thrown away when she no longer lived up to our expectations.

    May peace find you, Whitney.

    February 13, 2012 at 10:08 am |
  19. Lee

    It's interesting that the people on here who are clearly faithless are very angry and unhappy people. I think that is sad.

    February 13, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • jimtanker

      Usually it’s quite the opposite. The oppressed religious types are the ones who hate everyone and everything that doesn’t fit into their narrow world view.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Lee

      I won't argue with that. There is a happy medium though. We tend to be happy in our faith, accept others' differing beliefs and are not critical of those that have fallen on hard times – whether by their on actions or not.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • MarcTTF

      @Lee
      "accept others' differing beliefs"
      You must be new here.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I'm certainly not unhappy.
      What would give you that impression?
      Yesterday I made music, played in the snow, danced, laughed, loved and was loved.
      I was smiling from the moment I woke until I fell asleep.
      I take great joy in my family! A family that many religious folk tell me will send me straight to hell because we've been "living in sin" for nigh on a decade, by the by.
      Keep your sweeping generalizations to yourself, thank you very much.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Lee

      Doc – I don't think you'll go to hell. My faith tells me that God accepts all. All people of faith are not the same. So, please don't YOU stereotype all people of faith. Thank you very much

      February 13, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @lee
      You'll please note that I said "many" and not "all".

      February 13, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • jimtanker

      @ Lee

      “We tend to be happy in our faith,”
      Being happy in a delusion is still a delusion. I prefer the real world.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Lee

      Doc – my apologies if you take offense. It was not my intent. It's difficult for me to read that many posters believe all religious people are crazy nuts who think everyone who does not believe in their religion will go to hell. They are the minority – not the majority. Jim – it's not a delusion to me. It's gotten me through some very difficult times.... so whatever works. You certainly don't need to agree with me, but a little respect is appreciated.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • jimtanker

      I’m glad that religion got you through some tough times. That, however, doesn’t make the claims that religion brings up true.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • Lee

      Truth is, Jim, no one has tangible proof one way or the other.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • jimtanker

      The onus of proof is on the person making the claim. You are the one saying that some all powerful sky genie exists. As a great man once said, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” You have NO evidence at all.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • Lee

      Your claim is tha there is no God . . . so I believe I'll ask you the same question. Where's your evidence there is no God?

      February 13, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @lee
      This board has seen that argument countless times.
      Please take the time to google "Russel's teapot" – it is an excellent example of the fallacie sinherent in your counter-argument.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • jimtanker

      NO, you are mistaken. I am stating that there is no evidence for the existence of a god. This is refuting the claim that a god exists. If you can’t see the subtleties with this then I am sorry that your religion has blinded you to logic and reason.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>”I am stating that there is no evidence for the existence of a god. “

      >>>”The onus of proof is on the person making the claim. “

      So, then you are making the argument that you are right because you are just challenging his view then can he or another of Faith just make the same argument that there is a God because you can not offer proof that there is not a God... basically that the Faithful are refuting your claim that there is not a God?

      >>>”The oppressed religious types are the ones who hate everyone and everything that doesn’t fit into their narrow world view.”

      That also I would challenge. Those of Faith are like pretty much everyone on this planet that find more comfort in environments that are more ho'mogenous. In this case it is with beliefs. I do not believe that the Faithful or those not of Faith are unhappy. From the outside it might appear so but when around like minded individuals each group are happier than a kid in a bouncy castle.

      Hate, distrust, fear on both side do not automatically make one side more depressed or even angry. In a group a Atheist can be just as happy declaring that God does not exist and any one that does not believe them is wrong as a person who is Faithful who is in a church or just simply in the presence of other Faithful.

      Jim, the key is that there is another group. Those are the Atheist and the Faithful who understand that others either are Faithful or not....and they are cool with it. Chances are that the real peace and happiness exist in that group because harmony and co-existence is more important. A Atheist stated almost a year ago that there is a big difference between him declaring that he does not believe that there is a God and the radical Atheist who feel more comfortable stating that another is a fool for having Faith that there is a God.

      Jim, my friend, I think it is folks like you, the late Bin Laden, Pat Roberts and others of similar thinking methods... who are not just blind but blind and declaring that you have sight.

      February 13, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • bigot

      Mark, when making such extraordinary claims of God existing, you need to provide proof. What if I said, Leprechauns are real....you would require me to prove this statement would you not? You cannot prove that god exists. Period. End of discussion. You can speculate all you want, but at the end of the day, you just dont know. Refuting your claim of the existence of a christian god is much different that saying there is no god at all.

      Sure, there COULD be a god, or many gods, or no god. Now, since you are speaking in such absolutes about your god being real and have (like other christians) for a long time, PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF ONCE AND FOR ALL. PLEASE. I think this is fair, since I am not refuting the idea of a god to exist, but asking for proof that YOUR god exists. Bloggers on CNN.com have been waiting for a long time for an answer to this question.

      February 13, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>”Period. End of discussion”

      Gotta love when folks come on a open message board and feel they have the forti'tude to think that everyone will “end discussion” on their word alone.

      Big, I love that confidence. I have it as well and since this is an open forum to discuss subjects.....Your “Period” is just for you and the beginning of another's.

      >>>”Mark, when making such extraordinary claims of God existing, you need to provide proof.”

      Let me attempt to help you better understand. When one such as Jim makes the initial claim that there is not a God, the same way you declare that an “extraordinary claim” for one who is Faithful to say there is a God, that is how we feel about his claim that it is not a God.

      If you say there are Leprechauns or even Smurfs, what type of flaw must be in my character which would have me demand that you prove your beliefs? Does it fortify or diminish my Faith because another in society believes in little green or blue people?

      So no … should I require you to?

      Also, can you show me where I made these absolutes and declarations? What I did see today is Jim making an absolute declaration that there is not a God, he was challenged and dodged and then when cornered he said that his declaration was the only valid on.

      You see, that is in some ways the corner that Atheist are now in. Atheist are now openly moving from responding to a Faithful declaration of Faith to making the initial or opening claim that God does not exist. Now, we the Faithful are following the path of Atheist and are requesting proof of their belief.

      So far … the Atheist have failed to show proof of the non-existence of God in the same way that the Faithful have of showing proof of the existence of God.

      Now where do we go from here 🙂

      February 13, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • jimtanker

      @ tard from middle river

      Show me just where I stated that no god exists. Do it or shut the heII up.

      What I stated was that people who believe in religion are delusional. When someone believe something that there is NO evidence for and believe that they can talk to people that aren’t there, and can hear them as well, we call this delusional. If I was to say that I have an invisible pink unicorn that talks to me and grants me wishes I would hope that you would call me crazy.

      So again, show me where I stated that gods don’t exist.

      February 13, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, if you truly loved your family you'd ensure they read, comprehended and applied Jesus' truth to their lives. It starts with you making the first move.

      Amen.

      February 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
    • Christians are not allowed near children and other living things

      "if you truly loved your family you'd ensure they read, comprehended and applied Jesus' truth to their lives"

      Christians molest your children, keep your children away from them!

      February 13, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS says:
      Doc Vestibule, if you truly loved your family you'd ensure they read, comprehended and applied Jesus' truth to their lives. It starts with you making the first move.

      I say: Doc, if you truly love your family, you'll do everything you can to make sure no one in it ever turns out to be as despicable as HS.

      Of course, HS's ugliness goes all the way to the bone. Hard to imagine that anyone related to Doc would be as perverted as HS is.

      February 13, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>"Show me just where I stated that no god exists."

      >>>"I am stating that there is no evidence for the existence of a God."

      Jim, if this is a mistake then I will take that one. Are you stating that you just have not found or been presented proof so you find yourself unsure of the existance of God? Your post lean more that you are closer to actual non-belief than a more Agnostic view of Faith.

      Also you stated "Religion", which can also mean that you might be leaning more Agnostic and just not following an established organized religion.Show me just where I stated that no god exists. Do it or shut the heII up.

      Also, why this desire that I would challenge you about your beliefs in pink unicorns? If that is your belief then it is yours, I have no problem with it because I do not need to attack your beliefs to fortify or strengthen my own. At the same time the Atheist with their non-belief, the faithful and you and your unicorn find ourselves all in the same boat that none of us can prove or disprove.

      Its just an outcome that many Atheist felt they alone held the high ground but now their being asked to prove that there is not a God and some find their only resort left to them is name calling and a tantrum.

      In the mean time you need to work on being more clear in your post.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      My partner went to Catholic school and has been exposed to quite enough Jesus.
      My living has a big ol' bookshelf with a section dedicated all types of religion and mythology.
      When my kid asked me where the world came from, we explored all sorts of creation myths, including the Genesis one.
      She's a bit young for us to start cracking into Stephen Hawking and such, but she quite like all the different stories.
      I think the Norse creation tale with all the giants is her favourite.

      February 14, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • Prayer for the country

      God keep our land
      Prayer reverently borrowed from the Canadian national anthem

      February 14, 2012 at 8:44 am |
  20. Rick

    crackheads do as crackheads do....never liked her music...i willl not say she was not talented, but she should have seeked some help...at least someone like her could afford it, not like the other crack heads out there in the world...her life went downhill after MC got her on the stuff!

    February 13, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • Lee

      Your empathy is overwhelming. and it's sought help, not seeked.

      February 13, 2012 at 10:03 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.