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 Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.
February 15th, 2012
04:21 PM ET
Mormons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parentsBy Moni Basu, CNN (CNN) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for "a serious breach of protocol" in which the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel were entered into the genealogy database, though not referred for baptism. Asher Wiesenthal and Rosa Rapp were baptised in proxy ceremonies in temples in Utah and Arizona, according to the database records discovered by researcher Helen Radkey in Salt Lake City. The Wiesenthal baptisms violated a 1995 pact in which the church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims. "We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names," said church spokesman Michael Purdy. "These submissions were clearly against the policy of the church. We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records." Mormons believe that they may be baptized by proxy for deceased ancestors who never had that opportunity. Church members, however, are supposed to request such baptisms only for their own relatives, Purdy said. The agreement over Holocaust victims came about after it was discovered that hundreds and thousands of names had been entered into Mormon records. Jewish leaders said it was sacrilegious for Mormons to suggest Jews on their own were not worthy enough to receive God's eternal blessing. Radkey, who has been tracking Mormon genealogy records for a while for people who ought not to be there, said she inadvertently stumbled upon the Wiesenthal name a few weeks ago. Among others people she discovered had been baptized by proxy is President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the baptisms. Wiesenthal's father died in combat in World War I. His mother perished at the Belzec concentration camp in 1942. Holocaust survivor Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 after spending years hunting down Nazis. "We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews and Mormon officials. "Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust," he said in a written statement. He expressed gratitude to Radkey for "exposing the latest outrage." Radkey also found the names of relatives of Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, author and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. "In this case, the Wiesel family names were not submitted for baptisms but simply entered into a genealogical database," Purdy said. "Our system would have rejected those names had they been submitted." Purdy said it was "distressing" that church members had violated policy and regretted that "an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention." Radkey said the church makes such breaches possible because any member can submit a name not connected to their own family. "There are way too many entries slipping through the cracks, including Jewish Holocaust victims," she said. "It's (the Mormons') belief to save the dead that is causing the problem." Wiesel, meanwhile, told the Huffington Post that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, should speak to his own church and tell them to stop the practice of proxy baptisms on Jews. soundoff (2,053 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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RELIGION ruled the dark ages
Well, ignorance ruled the dark ages anyway. It just happens that ignorance and religion get along quite well...
Not just the Jewish people , hello, it is wrong to Baptize the dead period! Who do they think they are, A God carrying, holier than God, God squad? It's bad enough Christians forcing global assimilation but now trying to cleanse the spirit world? Hello, anybody home?
baptism for the dead is not wrong. Its been done forever. Its a service done out of love and respect and the dead people have just as much right to accept the baptism or reject it as they do while living. Jesus suffered for sins of the world. how dare he suffer for and in behalf of people without everyone giving jesus the right to suffer for their sins. Especially if they were jews in the holocaust. He had no right to suffer for their sins. When you do something in proxy for somone you IN NO WAY force them to do anything.
Andrew, it's WRONG when you're saying that mormonism is the ONLY true church of god. And on top of that, whatever your Jesus might have done for you, Jewish people find it disgusting to find out that you think they aren't good enough, even though they died for THEIR religion during the holocaust. Basically you and your fellow sick mormons are saying that Jews will all go to hell unless they accept their mormon baptism by proxy in the "spirit world." Wow you mormons think you are above everybody that ever existed don't you? Don't you see how that's just mental?
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and whoever submitted those names for baptism knew he was violating the church's policy.
You see, whenever you submit a name, you have to verify that the person is not a holocaust victim or survivor, BECAUSE of the past agreements. So whoever did it was violating our standards, too.
Also, when my Aunt died, De Paul university held a Catholic mass for her, and I thought it was beautiful. When we perform a baptism for the dead, they are NOT listed as members; it only records that baptism was performed. We believe that people can accept or reject it on their own, and do not presume that all have chosen to become members.
Whatever Brian, nobody in their right mind is going to vote for Romney right now and everything you pay to advertise your sweet, special commercials just went up in smoke. Only people holding "temple recommends" can enter the temple so you can make up all the stories you want to get away from the creepy rituals that really happen there because you know that non-mormons will never find out. Well...secrets just don't work anymore in this day and age. In 95 when the church was warned about this by the Jewish Federation there wasn't a internet. Now it's ALL over the world!
Brian, that agreement has been violated so often that it is an absolute joke. It is violated so often precisely because it is very difficult for non-Mormons to know it has happens, and it says a LOT about Mormon honesty that they break the rules because they know they will not be caught.
I have known a lot of Mormons, and while they pride themselves on honesty, the reality is that many regularly bent up the truth.
Doesn't this whole thing strike you as weird, absurd, and impossible? I really have so much trouble understanding how people can actually believe the many absurd things in the Book of Mormon, like the clearly phony archaeology and the translation of an Ancient Egyptian Funerary Papyrus fragment as The Book of Solomon. How do you believe in the face of so much clearly wrong information in your scripture?
One crook apologizing to another,the irony of this is you will never find a Jew anywhere who will apologize for anything somehow they are always the victim.
Hell they manage to convince modern Christians that they had nothing to do with Jesus death,that is if Jesus ever even existed,lol.
I was just thinking to myself, "You know, there isn't as much antisemitism as I expected in this thread."
And christians conveniently forget that Jesus was a jew and followed jewish laws.
This clearly crosses the line of freedom of religion. This cult should lose their religious status until they stop this abominable practice.
Indeed, they are more of a corporation than a religion and certainly a cult more than anything.
Why? How does this behavior affect anyone? And since when are religion and irrational behavior mutually exclusive?
They're all cults. At some point when a cult gets big enough it gets called a religion and people aren't supposed to laugh and aren't supposed to notice how ridiculous the magical thinking is anymore.
People have the freedom in America to choose their religion, or not to choose religion. Their decision needs to be respected whether you agree or not. If you can't understand the problem, then I suggest you sit back for a while and try to figure it out. No disrespect to you is intended.
Do you object to evangelism or missionary work of any kind, Willie? If you do, your problem is with more than the Mormons.
Every time a religious person knocks on my door to tell me the good news they are disrespecting my personal religious choice.
What"s the problem? These are not dead bodies being baptized, just names. Get over it.
Yes, I do object to those practices. But it is not a problem, as you put it. It is very disrespectful and leads to distancing people rather than bringing them together. You don't ever have Jews or Hindus knocking at your door trying to get you to sell your soul to another belief do you? It's call respecting others beliefs, something xtians and muslims have absolutely no concept of.
Wow, Willie! You're right! Get 'em!
"People have the freedom in America to choose their religion, or not to choose religion. Their decision needs to be respected whether you agree or not."
sounds like the mormons need to be told this too.
It is not sacreligious, nor is it wrong to do baptisms for the dead. It is simply offering a baptism to people who never had a chance to accept it. It is not forcing them to do anything. The Jewish people are over reacting. Although there was a breach in protocol which i don't really care too much about....there is NOTHING wrong with offering someone something out of love and respect. This is another ridiculous attempt to bring negative attention to mormons, and I don't think its coincidence that there is a mormon running for president....which just goes to show me that liberal media is behind this trying to orchestrate Obamas reelection....how else can you explain EVERY DAY THERE BEING SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT MORMONS ON CNN!!! it only happens when Mitt Romney shows up. It gives me a bad taste for liberals and atheist bigots that make up the democratic party.
Andrew, you are disrespecting Jewish people because you are assuming they would have jumped ship to your beliefs if they had the chance. Same goes for anyone in any other religion that this practice was aimed at. Besides, you should read the article, they did it to holocaust victims! They were alive long after the mormon cult was born. So yes, they already had the chance to convert, and they said NO!
Andrew, it was a dumb idea for Romney to run for President because there's no way the mormon chuch could stay out of the lime-light. The thing you people don't get is that the rest of the world thinks that what you believe in and what you do in your temples is insane! That's why it's all over the news! Not because of Obama for pete's sake!
non-religious people are even-tempered, reasoned beings, and generally nice. Religious people are frenetic, conflicted and prone to wide swings of emotional stability. They are more likely to act on a belief than to let reason rule the day. It is the Abrahamist's Prophecy to have Armeggedon, and most of the followers follow a path of self-prophecy towards that goal. Religion is a self-destructive, repressive mental disease on society. And you don't have to be an atheist to stand in opposition to religion.
OOOoooh...now I get it.
Well said Mike.
Certainly organized religion. People keep forgetting that Jesus talked about a way to live our lives doing no harm to others. Organized religion is man-made to offer comfort for those who need it and a crutch for those who need something to lean on to get through the day. I gave up on organized religion ages ago because I find no comfort in a church that insists I hate someone because they don't think the way the preacher does. I found myself leaving church angry at the arrogance and intolerance I found there. I don't have to be in church to pray to God, and I don't have to hate non-christians, gays, or _______(fill in the blank for this month's target) to insure I get into heaven. I just do my best to make my corner of the world as good as possible.
Well said
Mary, nowhere in the bible did jesus ever say anything. Those little red letters are what other people, such as John, Mark, Luke and whoever else, thought he said. There is absolutely no writings from jesus anywhere in the world. In fact, no evidence from that time that he ever lived.
Both Mary and Mike have both communicated my feelings exactly. It's good to know I am not alone in my thinking. KUDOS!!!
I find this absurd, not to mention perverse, on so many levels!
Thankfully, I'm a humanist. God is nothing but a man made creation used to try to explain the universe in a way that can be understood in the limited human mental frame of reference.
THIS GOD FELLA MUST BE AMUSING TO LET STUFF LIKE THIS GO ON. YOU ALL ARE HIS TOOL.
When I was a mormon...before and after my mission I was pretty much forced to be baptized (it's called by-proxy) in the name of a dead person. Usually it starts when we're 11 years old. I was in Bern Switzerland at the time and they took all of us kids down to the basement where there's a HUGE font held up by 12 HUGE gold bulls representing the 12 tribes. I was in a white jumpsuit and not understanding the language was shoved under water 60 times after each name was pronounce in the name of the father, son, holy ghost and mormon church. As I grew older it continues...but the mormon temple rituals are a lot darker and more creepy that just the baptisms for the dead...
They are???
Can you please tell us about the magic underwear? I am not trying to be confrontational, I really am curious. Granted, I am most likely going to use the information to ridicule the Mormon faith at a later date and time, but I would still like more ammo.
What a joke you are.
The "secret underwear" better known as garments are worn after a man or woman has taken their "endowments" out in one of the mormon temples. Basically the garments have symbols on them that correspond with symbols on a curtain that each man or woman puts their hands through and shake hands using different handshakes and saying secret words that will be used to get past the sentinels and Joseph Smith to get into heaven. It's a lot more involved than that, but there's a rough sketch for ya. I'm a 7th generation mormon and after my mission I forced the church (legally) to remove my name from their records because I just could not believe in their teachings and crazy rituals anymore.
They don't baptize people in the name of the Mormon church, the baptize people in the name of the Father. No one forces you to go to the temple, you can go if you want to, and if you don't want to then you don't have to go. You can see pictures of the insides of Mormon temples online, and anyone can go in one before it is in use. They have a big open house.
vastrightwing, is that the best you can do? Call me a joke? Insult me because I'm exposing the truth about your insane cult? I know, that's how I was taught as a mormon too...to attack when I'm attacked. Attack ruthlessly because you believe that as the true chosen of god you can have "righteous indignation." Yeah, how's that working out for you?
So you were probably also forced to go to church, forced to eat food and forced to go to school. Get a life, man. You leave the mormon church....but you cant leave mormons alone. Its one thing to explain what your experience was...but don't go way out of your way to smear the church.
"Magic Underwear" or garments is a symbol that Mormons use to remember to stay true to their moral standards. Like a cross or rosary beads are reminders for most Christians to be true to their faith, Mormons use this as a different form of remembering the covenants they made with God.
As a lifelong Mormon, I can honestly say that the Mormon church is not sorry they baptized these jews...they're just sorry they got caught.
Mormons believe that they are doing these dead people the biggest favor imaginable. Mormons believe they are able to perform a saving ordinance for these dead people that God himself is not able to do. Mormons have even posthumously baptized Jesus Christ and sealed him to the women that they believe were his polygamous wives.
On a side note, my parents have gone to cemeteries and copied down information from random graves and been baptized for those people. This may seem weird, but it is totally normal in Mormonism.
What a pack of nonsense, Tanya!
No, Tanya is telling the truth. When I was a kid we would go to graveyards and got names and dates and entered them into the database in SLC, UT so that all the "work" could be done for them. This includes baptisms, marriages (to prophets, upstanding men in the church, etc) and bload oath rituals, using our temple names, promising to keep it all a secret. Of course since leaving the church, it's something the rest of the world needs to know about.
Yes, your parents are weird.
What a crock.
Personally, it's none of my business what mormons do. However, when they bring my name into it, live or dead, they make it my business. Since the dead can't speak, it's up to the living to put an end to this highly disrespectful practice.
William, it's your business when the next president of the US could be a mormon practicing these bizarre rituals and running the country at the same time....CREEPY!
BTW, when you're dead, someone will find your records and make you a mormon. Seriously, I can't make this stuff up.
here I will use your name....William is a gigantic tool. There you go. Dont have a name if you don't want it used. To claim that mormons are using force is the biggest lie. They say a name and out of love and respect offer a baptism that the dead can accept or reject is not wrong. So if and when you are baptised for the dead your dead self can reject it just as plainly as you would now. So now that Jews were baptized....now its disrespectful. Lame.
The family search website is meant for people to keep track of ancestors, not a place for general historical names. At any rate, according to beliefs, regardless of whether it's a family member or not, whoever is baptized by proxy has the freedom to accept or decline the baptism (since we believe in life after death and agency). So, say in grand-daughter/son is baptized "for" you, you can decide you don't want it, and it's as though it never happened. Like the article said, it's unfortunate that names occasionally are submitted that shouldn't be.
Seconded.
So is it ok if somebody rapes you, but you get to choose whether or not to keep any resultant fetus?
And you don't think that the rest of the world looks at this as normal Linds???? Do you think we all sit back and think, "why yes, it's ok that dead people are being baptized by proxy because in heaven, where they are waiting to be saved since they have been the WRONG religion all their lives, they are just hoping to jump on the mormon cult wagon?"
How offensive it is that Jewish people that died so horribly at the hands of Nazis are actually being made into mormons. Dang that's just WRONG and creepy!!
C'mon, Frank. Where did you go to logic school?
Oh, you didn't
C'mon, Frank. Where did you go to logic school?
frank: No, it's more like someone just got soaking wet for no reason... It's just a dunk, not a baptism.
pastmorm: Things done in any religion can be baffling and seen as abnormal if one doesn't grow up with a certain set of beliefs and practices. What is normal really? What religion doesn't think they're right? Even if there were proof that one religion was right, would everyone agree? I doubt it... If someone baptized me into the Catholic church while I was sleeping, for instance, would I be Catholic? Because I don't have Catholic beliefs, I'd just see it as someone sprinkling water on my head and move on with my life.
most western religions have odd and nasty history. we have not heard much about the LDS religion but as we do we are learning that they have done their fair share of lousey things. this is all rather disgusting though
My daughter grew up with her mom who is a mormon and subsequently is also one. Is there a way I can ensure that she doesn't pull this crap on me when I die?
You dead, you can reject the work if you choose.
Nope, there is not.
cremation. plus, it's green!
Steve, put it in your will. You could probably also make her inheritance from you dependant on her following your wishes.
@ former mormon: you don't know much do you? It is fully rejectable if chosen.
you can have your ashes compressed into a blue diamond – a real, actual diamond – that can be an heirloom or a meal ticket for someone, and as a bonus you will always be in circulation.
1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
There is evidence both in the Bible and in the dead sea scrolls that early Christians practiced baptism for the dead? If the early Christians practiced it, then why shouldn't we? What is the difference in this practice of the Mormon church and the Catholic church's practice of prayers for the dead?
Don't tell any Mormons, but I have a list of all of their dead ones, and the rituals that I perform upon them are my secret - but I'll just say that it is working out very well...
That's fine. I don't mind.
hahaha–this is my favorite post. Thanks for bringing something funny to an annoying conversation. If you don't believe in it what does it affect you anyway?
This forum needs Like and Dislike buttons.
AGREED!!
Jeebus. How else will they claim to have 1 billion strong if they can't baptize dead people?
LOL!!!
Well they don't count them in that number actually...
Meh. The Mormons can do what they like. God protects His own.
Yes Amen!
Gotta respect the size of those Mormon cojones – baptizing dead Jews. WOW. And they claim that they're not a cult? Seriously...
ALL religious people are insane. And note: you don't have to be an atheist to stand in opposition to religion.
The Bible talks about Baptism for the Dead. The same Bible other Christians use.
They can apologize to everyone else as well. Once one member of your family joins the Mormon Church they perform their heebie jeebie on every relative they can find, living or dead, which is the sole reason for their interest in genealogy. They can apologize to me and my dead Catholic priest grandfather as well – and not many can say they have one of those in their family.