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 Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.
February 15th, 2012
04:21 PM ET
Mormons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parentsBy Moni Basu, CNN (CNN) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for "a serious breach of protocol" in which the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel were entered into the genealogy database, though not referred for baptism. Asher Wiesenthal and Rosa Rapp were baptised in proxy ceremonies in temples in Utah and Arizona, according to the database records discovered by researcher Helen Radkey in Salt Lake City. The Wiesenthal baptisms violated a 1995 pact in which the church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims. "We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names," said church spokesman Michael Purdy. "These submissions were clearly against the policy of the church. We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records." Mormons believe that they may be baptized by proxy for deceased ancestors who never had that opportunity. Church members, however, are supposed to request such baptisms only for their own relatives, Purdy said. The agreement over Holocaust victims came about after it was discovered that hundreds and thousands of names had been entered into Mormon records. Jewish leaders said it was sacrilegious for Mormons to suggest Jews on their own were not worthy enough to receive God's eternal blessing. Radkey, who has been tracking Mormon genealogy records for a while for people who ought not to be there, said she inadvertently stumbled upon the Wiesenthal name a few weeks ago. Among others people she discovered had been baptized by proxy is President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the baptisms. Wiesenthal's father died in combat in World War I. His mother perished at the Belzec concentration camp in 1942. Holocaust survivor Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 after spending years hunting down Nazis. "We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews and Mormon officials. "Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust," he said in a written statement. He expressed gratitude to Radkey for "exposing the latest outrage." Radkey also found the names of relatives of Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, author and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. "In this case, the Wiesel family names were not submitted for baptisms but simply entered into a genealogical database," Purdy said. "Our system would have rejected those names had they been submitted." Purdy said it was "distressing" that church members had violated policy and regretted that "an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention." Radkey said the church makes such breaches possible because any member can submit a name not connected to their own family. "There are way too many entries slipping through the cracks, including Jewish Holocaust victims," she said. "It's (the Mormons') belief to save the dead that is causing the problem." Wiesel, meanwhile, told the Huffington Post that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, should speak to his own church and tell them to stop the practice of proxy baptisms on Jews. soundoff (2,053 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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If you really want to know the truth about mormons, go to mormon.org. It explained to me pretty well why they are doing this. It seems like it was out of the good intentions of their heart and if you don't believe in it, does it really matter anyways? I don't think they were trying to be malicious or side swipe the Jewish faith. It was probably just a member who didn't know that the leadership had made that deal with the Jewish leaders in 1995 and won't do it again. Plus, what does Mitt Romney have to do with this? He is not a mormon leader, he is just a member. Lets keep his beliefs out of his campaign and just trust that his values is what he would govern with.
mormon.org is a conversive tool. It's created to say just the right things and make you see the sweet, fluffy, kind, family focused side of mormonism. It leaves out the temple rituals, blood oaths, secret temple names, White horse prophesy, Joseph Smith history (that he made himself a general and believed he would turn America into a Theocratic Monarchy...I could go on and on. Don't read propaganda. Do your own research. Don't believe mormons cause they'll keep telling you that all the good feelings you have is god telling you that they are right.
It's inconsiderate to do it to anyone's relatives without asking first. Would LDS members want Jews or Catholics posthumously baptizing all of their relatives? I doubt it. No religion has the right to claim non-believers as their own. Silly meaningless ceremony or not, it's rude and presumptuous.
The same way that we will just "trust" the Catholic church to stop at taking away a woman's right to choose.......no wait- now they are going after our right to contraception if we work for one of their religious hospitals or charities........no wait- now they want the right of ANY Catholic who runs a company, or business of any kind to be able to deny any employee the right to contraception. What's next? It MATTERS if the leaders we elect come from a religion that believes they have the right to tell the rest of how how to live or what to believe.
It's just a bath. There's no god to care one way our the other.
They don't actually baptize dead people. Know your facts. They baptize living people in the name of another. Also, people can reject it in the afterlife, supposedly. Mormons believe you have to be baptized in the church to go to heaven. I don't agree, but it isn't any more kooky than drinking the representation of blood and eating the representation of human flesh and using an ancient torture device as your symbol of worship.
Garsh Kel, baptizing real people in the name of dead people that died for their own religion during the holocaust...that sure makes this a whole lot better huh?
Wow.
Get your facts straight. In the Catholic Church we do not drink the representation of Christ's blood, the wine ACTUALLY physically turns into the blood of Jesus, it just tastes like wine.
Exactly. It's cannibalism.
@pastmorm. I don't see why it's a big deal. They're dead, it's not going to affect them. Dead is dead. They're not really being baptized and I don't believe in an afterlife. So... Your an idiot if you think this actually affects the Jews that died. I'm sure most of them stopped believing in God anyways.
Have you ever wondered what the hemaglobin count is on that stuff ?
New International Version (©1984)
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,...Hebrews 9:27....no one can change your fate after death. Mormons READ God's word not a mere man's book (book of Mormons)
We found someone who knows which book is god's book. Goody!
New International Version (©1984)
If clouds are full of water, they pour rain upon the earth. Whether a tree falls to the south or to the north, in the place where it falls, there will it lie....Ecclesiastes 11:3
Sounds like a bunch of random words. If a monkey types long enough, he will write an opera. Was this written by some middle-ages monkey?
Better yet, read a science book. THAT we can prove.
NEXT. Stop trying to stir up trouble for Romney CNN. This country needs him right now. Obama is a joke and Santorum is not ready.
Lame....CNN isn't mixing up the stage...it's just that your chuch is finally being forced to face the music. You're offensive to believe that you are better than anyone else and that anyone in the "spirit world" that doesn't choose to accept this baptism by proxy will go to hell. WOW!
This is not a political issue, dimwit. This is about a grossly inappropriate and disrespectful action committed by a church. It has nothing to do with Romney.
You have your tinfoil hat on too tight.
This country needs a Romney like we need Richard Nixon back in the Oval Office.
Romney is a snake oil salesman, primed since birth for the Oval Office.
HIs father couldn't make it, so his son was passed the torch. Indoctrinated in the church, and at home (his father was not only Bishop, and Stake President, but Mitty boy fails to say his father was an Apostle and then in the First Presidency.
Think he isn't fully indoctrinated into becoming the White Horse which has only MORMONS saving America from disaster (recession, economic problems, bank failures, missing locust and familne – but it's still early)
No cultist in the White House
NoMormonInWhiteHouse blogspot com
First it was "magic underwear" and now this? And to think that all this time I've been thinking California is full of nutjobs- when it truth they don't even hold a candle to the crazies in Utah!
Is it "magic" underwear because it prevents scidmarks, or pregnancy when unwed mormons do what every one else is doing in high school.
Trying to explain all the intricacies of Christianity in a comments section is pointless, theres simply too much material to discuss. I will say this, i was once skeptical also and often times pondered the same questions the atheists ask (i.e. did Jesus actually perform miracles or were they hoaxes, if God is real then why do bad things happen to good ppl, etc).
I decided that I wasn't going to take this issue lightly and decided to look into my questions further. I bought some books, did some research by all sides and compared claims vs couinter claimss etc (theres a lot of false websites out there, it can be tough to discern without taking in all sides from all angles). I didn't, and still dont, want to believe in something just because it makes me "feel good." i want to believe in the truth whatever direction it points to. Long story short, i came to the conclusion that Jesus was real, and the claims that were made were also real. Once, i decided that hec probably was real, I invited Christ into my heart. Words can't describe exactly how He changes you, but once He does your life is transformed.
Im not here to tell you to believe in Christianity, but simply give my account. I hope everyone searches their soul,is truly honest with thermselves on the inside, and does as much research as they can (with open mind from all sides). I don't go around preaching my faith andc i live and let live, but I try to be a good person (and ofcourse we all mess up and do bad things from time to time, im certainly not perfect) and if anyone is to ever ask then i simply resoond. I will only discuss topics if theyre brought up in front of me, i dont go out trying to push my beliefs.
I wish the best for everyine and please dont take your decisions lightly. Cheers.
Few typos above, please excuse folks
Of course Christ was real. I don't think there are many people who don't believe he existed. I just don't think he was the Son of God. He preached things I believe in: charity and love. But I don't think even he preached he was the son of god. I think it was decided after he died at the Nicene creed. I find it curious that the Bible was written many years after Jesus died. If he were as humble as the bible says, surely he could have written much of the doctrine himself? Furthermore, the story of Christ isn't even original. It was also adopted by the Pagans before Christ's time. He was an extraordinary man, but just a man. That's all we've ever been able to prove.
That doesn't make Romney look good-not that he would ever DO something like that, but it certainly makes people a little more uncomfortable with his faith of choice.
Trying to explain all the intricacies of Christianity in a comments section is pointless, theres simply too much material to discuss. I will say this, i was once skeptical also and often times pondered the same questions the atheists ask (i.e. did Jesus actually perform miracles or were they hoaxes, if God is real then why do bad things happen to good ppl, etc).
I decided that I wasn't going to take this issue lightly and decided to look into my questions further. I bought some books, did some research by all sides and compared claims vs couinter claimss etc (theres a lot of false websites out there, it can be tough to discern without taking in all sides from all angles). I didn't, and still dont, want to believe in something just because it makes me "feel good." i want to believe in the truth whatever direction it points to. Long story short, i came to the conclusion that Jesus was real, and the claims that were made were also real. Once, i decided that hec probably was real, I invited Christ into my heart. Words can't describe exactly how He changes you, but once He does your life is transformed.
Im not here to tell you to believe in Christianity, but simply give my account. I hope everyone searches their soul,is truly honest with thermselves on the inside, and does as much research as they can (with open mind from all sides). I don't go around preaching my faith andc i live and let live, but I try to be a good person (and ofcourse we all mess up and do bad things from time to time, im certainly not perfect) and if anyone is to ever ask then i simply resoond. I will only discuss topics if theyre brought up in front of me, i dont go out trying to push my beliefs.
Inwish the best for everyine and please dont take your decisions lightly. Cheers.
Could you please post this a few more times ? We have not seen it enough yet.
IHEY MORMONS BAPTISE ME WHEN I DIE JUST IN CASE YOU WERE RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME. That goes for every other religion out there. I'm free game and so are my ancestors. Better safe than sorry, eh???
I'll laugh my dead ass off if they even TRY to baptize me again after my demise.
I was baptized as a Lutheran when I was an infant, but they don't know that.
Whatever, man. It's time to rewrite the First Amendment and edit religious "freedumb" out because it's dividing Americans at a time when we need to come together.
If you don't believe in their baptisms anyway, then why do you care if them baptize you. HEY MORMONS BAPTISE ME WHEN I DIE JUST IN CASE YOU WERE RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME. That goes for every other religion out there. I'm free game and so are my ancestors. Better safe than sorry, eh???
What role did Mitt Romney play in this?
Religions, man. You can have 'em.
Romney is involved in that he was Stake President and Bishop, and knows the workings of Temple baptisms.
His daddy was an Apostle and First Presidency, and would have trained boy-wonder in Temple procedures to prepare him for leadership roles like daddy had.
Problem is that Mormons play a high score game. Everyone wants to submit the most names, perform the most baptisms, perform the most "sealings", perform the most proxy marriages – so when a family line dries up from decades of geneology research, the newer Mormons must "search" for fresh meat (names) to submit.
It didn't take a rocket scientist to know that six million names is the jackpot under the rainbow, and Romney was the dancing Leprechaun. As the equivalent of a Stake President he would have known this was an internal problem, but "hey, as long as we aren't caught, what harm could it do."
Come on, a Temple Worker didn't recognize ADOLF HITLER? At least five Mormons look at the name on the way through the Temple from submission, to baptism, to sealing, and in Hitler's case, even Marriage sealing.
No, the Mormons are aware, and don't care. It's a number game, and Romney's answer was a one-finger wave to the Americans, and in this particular case, the Jewish voters.
Go Romney.
NoMormonInWhiteHouse blogspot com
I'm sorry, but I don't understand all this hatred and frustration at mormons. Seems like, to me, they are open and try and tell you about what they believe, then people say they are forcing everyone to join their "cult", yet when they try and keep to themsleves people say they are a secretive "cult" that excludes people and is judgemental. I just don't understand why people give a crap. No one can force you to believe what they want. So why not just believe what you want and let the Moromon's do their thing. If you don't believe in what they are doing then how does it harm you? I just think its stupid to be so outraged over proxy baptisms if you don't believe in them. From what I understand about mormons, the person in heaven, can choose for themselves to reject the baptism.
I used to be Mormon. Now I'm agnostic, and I can say that Mormons aren't any different from any other type of Christian. It's all really the same. I don't approve of how they handled Prop 8, however. Then again, the Catholics and birth control is befuddling as well.
Because mormons are a hateful relgion. They hate anyone that won't convert to their religion. You people make blood oaths in the temple. You baptize dead people that fought and died for their own religion. You think you are better than anyone else on the earth by believing that if they don't accept this "by proxy" baptism then they will be condemned for eternity. The best part is that now we have the internet and in 95 when you mormons first got in trouble with the Jewish Federation for doing this it was a whisper. Now the world will know what a crazy cult you are!
I wonder how you would react, if it were standard for Jews or Muslims to have such a ridiculous custom, and they would convert your parents post mortem to Judaism or Islam. I'm sure you would be upset!
Pastnorm clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. I know plenty of Mormons, and they don't hate people who do convert to their religion. Some are crazy, but that's with any religion. That fact that you're so hateful towards one group of people indiscriminately shows your hypocrisy. Get a life.
No, Sabrina, I wouldn't because, I don't SHARE thier beliefs, so I don't care. Heck they could baptize ME or whatever they do. I just don't see how it matters to people unless they really do believe on some level that what mormons do has some kind of power in the afterlife.
I agree, pastmorm, you OBVIOUSLY weren't ever a momon. Blood sacrifices? Really? lol. I'm sorry but youhave NEVER been in a temple!! Thank you for making me smile, though.
Excuse me, I ment to say I agree with Kel about postmorm. Typing while putting my kids to bed is not the smartest of ideas 😀
If they are so sensitive to other religions why do they accost me and say my religion is wrong when I'm riding the bus? Mormons (and other christians) need to mind their own business and leave the rest of us alone.
Judge us Latter Day Saints by going to the source. Don't listen to message boards that have the same person writing cruel comments over and over again about Mormons and religion in general. lds.org
They did. Joe Smith is a farce.
I second Four Jumps to Insanity's motion: Joe Smith is a FARCE.
Why stop at dead Jews. Mormons should baptize living ones as well. That way Jews would have their bases covered no matter what happens in the afterlife.
Since there never were an Adam and Eve, Garden of Paradise or talking serpent, there never was any original sin i.e. baptism is a silly supersti-tion that even the Catholic church is having trouble coming to grips with.
From the white board notes of a Catholic Professor of Theology:
"The story of Adam and Eve is only symbolic.
Yes, this story was composed in the 900s BCE and functions as an etiology (explanatory myth) . In the 900s Israel was self ruling, under King David and Solomon. The people were no longer at war and the question" Why are we not happy?" may have been asked. The short answer is sin. (Look at 1 Kings 11 for some clues into why the story depicts Eve sinning first and then tempting Adam [Solomon]).
Original sin is therefore only symbolic of man's tendencies to sin.
Yes, I teach Original Sin as symbolic of the sins of our origins – in our
families and in the broader society, both of which affect each person
profoundly. The "sins of our origins" approach helps to account for certain
patterns of sin in particular families and societies.
Baptism does not erase original sin since the sin does not exist. Yes, the old "laundry of the soul," approach to Baptism is no longer accepted.
Infant Baptism is only a rite of initiation and commits parents and godparents to bringing up the child in a Christian home.
Yes, but, since baptism is now celebrated at Sunday Eucharist, all the members of the parish family are encouraged to pledge their support and care for the faith life of the newly baptized. (A manifestation of this is
persons volunteering to teach other people's kids the basics of Catholicism.)"
As per National Geographic's Genographic project:
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/
" DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago (added note: bible time has Adam living about 6000 years ago) began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.
"Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.
Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.
It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."
The Mormons should also apologize for the way they treat living Jews, the gay community, women and minorities in general. They seem to me to be a very strict letter-of-the-law religion. Do not allow these people to get political power:could be very dangerous for America.
So should virtually every other religion.
Mormonism is not supported by ONE SINGLE SHRED of archeological evidence. I read the BOM years ago, and if my memory serves me, there were accounts of HUGE battles here in North America with thousands of chariots destroyed, etc.. If this were so, there would be massive cachés of artifacts right under the surface. NOT ONE ARTIFACT has ever been found. It is not Christianity. It is a cult religion.
Ever heard of Native Americans?
@Erock – To my knowledge, no American Indians tested to date bear any genetic markers indicating they are descendent from middle-eastern origin. Plenty of genetic and other evidence indicating migration in waves across the Bering Strait and down through the Americas. The Mormons have their own version of creation scientists intent on trying to muddy these waters but the facts are pretty clear. The BOM's explanation for American Indians is without any evidential support.
Mormons spend a lot of money in South and Latin America hoping to dig up evidence.
All they get are rusty shovels, insect bites, and sore backs.
The people in those countries have noted though, by observing Mormons with Shovels, that they would make very good farmers – and they supply their own manure every time they open their mouths.
Just remember though, same rule for vampires, Mormons have to be invited in to a room to do damage.
NoMormonInWhiteHouse blogspot com
You see......that's just it. You have the right to not let it bother you if you don't think this is important. On the other hand...I have the right to believe that I spent my life trying to get it right as to who & what I am. No one has the right to take that away from me & change my personal history for all posterity. I personally think this is fantastic that this bit of dirty little laundry is now seeing the light of day & getting aired. Literally millions of people have died on this earth in the name of religion. Sad, but you can't tell me that it has no importance. What I declare myself to be in my choice of religion...or not... should be just that: MY choice.
The people who believed in Amun Rah thought the same thing.