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 Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.
February 15th, 2012
04:21 PM ET
Mormons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parentsBy Moni Basu, CNN (CNN) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for "a serious breach of protocol" in which the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel were entered into the genealogy database, though not referred for baptism. Asher Wiesenthal and Rosa Rapp were baptised in proxy ceremonies in temples in Utah and Arizona, according to the database records discovered by researcher Helen Radkey in Salt Lake City. The Wiesenthal baptisms violated a 1995 pact in which the church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims. "We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names," said church spokesman Michael Purdy. "These submissions were clearly against the policy of the church. We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records." Mormons believe that they may be baptized by proxy for deceased ancestors who never had that opportunity. Church members, however, are supposed to request such baptisms only for their own relatives, Purdy said. The agreement over Holocaust victims came about after it was discovered that hundreds and thousands of names had been entered into Mormon records. Jewish leaders said it was sacrilegious for Mormons to suggest Jews on their own were not worthy enough to receive God's eternal blessing. Radkey, who has been tracking Mormon genealogy records for a while for people who ought not to be there, said she inadvertently stumbled upon the Wiesenthal name a few weeks ago. Among others people she discovered had been baptized by proxy is President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the baptisms. Wiesenthal's father died in combat in World War I. His mother perished at the Belzec concentration camp in 1942. Holocaust survivor Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 after spending years hunting down Nazis. "We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews and Mormon officials. "Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust," he said in a written statement. He expressed gratitude to Radkey for "exposing the latest outrage." Radkey also found the names of relatives of Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, author and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. "In this case, the Wiesel family names were not submitted for baptisms but simply entered into a genealogical database," Purdy said. "Our system would have rejected those names had they been submitted." Purdy said it was "distressing" that church members had violated policy and regretted that "an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention." Radkey said the church makes such breaches possible because any member can submit a name not connected to their own family. "There are way too many entries slipping through the cracks, including Jewish Holocaust victims," she said. "It's (the Mormons') belief to save the dead that is causing the problem." Wiesel, meanwhile, told the Huffington Post that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, should speak to his own church and tell them to stop the practice of proxy baptisms on Jews. soundoff (2,053 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Who cares! You people need to get a life!
To get excited about some kooks exercising some pagan ritual on some arbtrary individual is inane!
If some nut "babtises" a chicken, for example, who cares!
Grow up!
I believe in the Sacrament of Babtism.
The chicken might
Why are you still on this thread if you don't care & it doesn't matter? apparently it does matter to some of us. You must be a Mormon......you think you have the right to tell others how to think & what to believe.
Here's what I don't understand.... if I die, my relatives can posthumously baptize into a faith that I do not believe in and because I'm dead, I can't refuse? What a racket! No wonder the Mormons can claim to be the "fastest growing religion in the world"! I now have an overwhelming desire to buy a gravemarker with "I AM NOT A MORMON AND NEVER WILL BE!!" just to hedge my bets against stupid relatives.
You are very misinformed. YOU CAN REFUSE. The Baptism will NOT BE VAlLID if not fully accepted by the person who was baptized by proxi.
Your dead, so it doesn't matter! You don't get a vote.
And in any case, it's irrelevant!
Good grief, Louis!!! What part of POSTHUMOUS baptism are you missing??? Do you truly not understand that "posthumous" means DEAD!!! Wanna explain to the rest of us how a DEAD person turns down a baptism?
They should STOP this for ALL the dead. If someone wanted to become Mormon they would do it. This happened to a friend that did NOT want this to happen and made it very clear, but her insensitive husband did it anyway. What a shame. At least the "religion" is a made up farce anyway.
How can you be 100% sure her husband won't change his mind a few thousand years from now?
Correction- I meant "wife won't change her mind"
Louis said: "How can you be 100% sure her husband won't change his mind a few thousand years from now?"
Sorry, dude? Seriously, yours is the dumbest argument I've ever heard! What are you, 13 years old?
CNN is spreading falsehoods about the LDS Church. Baptisms for the dead does not make the dead person Mormon. It merely makes the ordinance available to them if they choose to accept it in the after-life.
Your comment just proves that LDS is a CULT.
We know that by damaging the brain, one personality can completely dissappear and another one emerge. So where is this soul that will live on after someone dies and the ultimate brain injury (decomposition) occurs?
Hey Ken, what part of disrespectful do you not understand? These Jewish people had the choice while they were alive but they said NO, I am Jewish! Why can't you respect the views of others?
And Mormonism is merely for the gullible. Golden tablets from Missouri, really?
Religous nuts like you just can't keep their hands off of us non-believers...!
Since when did religion require "opt-out" clause? You people are ridiculous!!
@mendacitysux, yeah, you've got to be really gullible to believe that an ancient civilization lived here long before Europeans arrived, and one intelligent enough to have kept records of their own history....
This is revealing. Any Christian, irrespective of your denomination knows that no one else can gain your salvation except you. That is why someone else cannot accept Christ on your behalf-not your mother, father or any of your relatives. For any one who understand Christianity, in analyzing this information, it will be problematic to say that mormonism is Christianity. or a form of it. In a nutshell, no one can stand in for someone elses baptism, no matter what the relationship is.
I thought Jesus "gained" our salvation. You, sir, are a heretic.
Then why did Paul refer to that practice in the New Testament? "...then why are they baptized for the dead if the dead will not rise?..."
So, in Christianity, nobody can do anything for somebody else that they can't do for themselves? That's a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity itself. Christ himself served as a proxy for us all, and performed what we could not do for ourselves. ... So, what of the doctrine that "Else a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"? All those millions who've lived on the earth without even hearing about Jesus Christ are doomed to hell? I don't think so. The Mormon doctrine of proxy baptisms (which are either accepted or rejected by the spirits whose work is done for them) is the most Christian doctrine in existence today.
That said, if you don't believe in Christianity or Mormonism, what do you care if they do something that, according to you, has no authority in heaven anyway. Any Jew who is offended because some Mormon went into a baptismal font for one of their dead ancestors who died in the Holocaust obviously has nothing better to do than pick on other religions.
Well said Ben
Louis. Paul stated that the Corinth church was practicing baptising the dead in I Corintians. This was a pagen practice that he was telling them was wrong to do, not advsisng them to do it. The Corinth people loved rituals and customs, and often fell under the influence of practices that went against scripture. Great question though.
It's all hogwash based on the "angry gods" paradigm. There are no "angry gods", and no "price to be paid". Time to grow up.
Watching Christians argue over scripture is hilarious...thanks for the entertainment, guys!
No one can plead the blood of Christ for you. That is something you do for yourself. Baptism is an individual accepting Christ as their lord and savior. Mom and dad can't do it for you, neither can you stand in for them.
When I fist saw the headline I honestly thought it read "Morons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parents"
Well it DID say that... mormon moron same difference.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoW1GIabn88&w=640&h=360]
Trying to expIain all the intricacies of Christianity in a comments section is pointless, theres simply too much material to discuss. I will say this, i was once skeptical also and often times pondered the same questions the atheists ask (i.e. did Jesus actually perform miracles or were they hoaxes, if God is real then why do bad things happen to good ppl, etc).
I decided that I wasn't going to take this issue lightly and decided to look into my questions further. I bought some books, did some research by all sides and compared claims vs couinter claimss etc (theres a lot of false websites out there, it can be tough to discern without taking in all sides from all angles). I didn't, and still dont, want to believe in something just because it makes me "feel good." i want to believe in the truth whatever direction it points to. Long story short, i came to the conclusion that Jesus was real, and the claims that were made were also real. Once, i decided that hec probably was real, I invited Christ into my heart. Words can't describe exactly how He changes you, but once He does your life is transformed.
Im not here to tell you to believe in Christianity, but simply give my account. I hope everyone searches their soul,is truly honest with thermselves on the inside, and does as much research as they can (with open mind from all sides). I don't go around preaching my faith and i live and let live, but I try to be a good person (and ofcourse we all mess up and do bad things from time to time, im certainly not perfect) and if anyone is to ever ask then i simply resoond. I will only discuss topics if theyre brought up in front of me, i dont go out trying to push my beliefs.
I wish the best for everyone and please dont take your decisions lightly. Cheers.
Done. And done. Christians can't even agree on their beliefs...Every generation interprets scripture differently..that's why I go right to the source: God is in all of us, or He is not in any of us...Which do YOU believe???
God does not play mind games, and does not need to bully people or threaten them with plagues and the fires of hell in order to "save" them...Christianity has become a farce, and mere matter of squabbling for power over others...You are not "Godly" people, you are carnival barkers and charlatans...If God is not within all, then he is nowhere: he does not pick sides...
Your post was goodhearted, MiGrant..but you did NOT "go right to the source. Rather, it seems that *you* had already made your decision *before* asking the question. By that I mean, you see the choices between "God is in all of us, or He is not in any of us...Which do YOU believe???" Ufortunately, though, both your choices require that "God" exists...which is *really* the 'source question".
I'm truly glad your faith brings you comfort. I really mean that. And it honestly doesn't matter to me that other people have an imaginary friend...as long as their belief in their imaginary friend doesn't lead those other people to try force their particular imaginary friend on the rest of us.
But, frankly, it's simply not necessary to believe in some sort of god to be a loving, caring, compassionate person. To have a sense of right and wrong. Of honor. Of integrity. Of understanding the logic and benefit of the Golden Rule and applying them to your life 🙂
Oh...and i apologize to you, To Whom It May Concern. I forget to mention that *your* post was kind-hearted, too. And I'm glad that you find comfort in your faith as well.
Did you know Mormons believe God and Mary had S#x ? That Jesus was not born a virgin birth ? That Satan and Jesus are brothers ? And that blacks are cursed and come from Satan ?
Hey,
I believe Mary had s.ex too. Then she told a lie. Look what happened next!
You are more than ridiculous. Get you facts straight. I'm not even mormon and I know you're a joke.
I'm a Mormon, and I don't believe those things... making you a liar.
We do believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, and we believe that Cain killed Abel and as a result god cursed him and his posterity with the dark skin color so everyone would know. That does not, however, mean that we believe blacks are bad. They are just the same as the rest of us. They just are descended from Cain. That is pretty much the only truth in that post.
Ahem...you wrote "we believe that Cain killed Abel and as a result god cursed him and his posterity with the dark skin color so everyone would know" . OK. If you say so.
But why on earth would anyone want to worship something that punishes not just the sole perpetrator of a crime, but also deliberately singles out all his descendants for as long there are *are* descendants for this one guy's act???? That's just being petty and vindictive.
The practice of post-humously baptizing people, who are NOT closely related to a Mormon, sullies the genealogical record. I'd appreciate it if the Mormon Church would remove my ancestors names from their post-humously baptized lists and correct the error and misperception. They were Lutheran Reformed Church members, baptized in Pennsylvania and Ohio, and some of them close relatives to those members of the Fancher wagon train..... of Mountain Meadows Massacre. Ironic.
If you don't believe in Mormonism, who cares what they do? Unless of course you think they have some standing of authority with God...
I was baptized, believe in God and and the life ever after. If another church wanted to baptize me again, I would be honored. Why do Christians bash fellow Christians, just because they belong to a different church? In a broader sense, how can believers question fellow believers, just because they are in a different religion. Who among us can say that any one church or religion is "right?" Only God can do that, and I have a feeling he loves us all.
That statement is arrogance defined:
"Who among us can say that any one church or religion is "right?" Only God can do that, and I have a feeling he loves us all."
Yet you can claim there is a god! Wow.
The LDS Church does not honor baptisms by other churches. That is why they do as many "baptisms for the dead" as they can. They are offering us one last chance to accept the "true Gospel" according to their beliefs. I live in Salt Lake and have many friends who are Mormon. We have had this discussion a number of times.
bff That was meant to read as, "who among us Christians....". I was not addressing non-believers. Read in that context it is not arrogant at all. Besides, i don't believe that I am better than you, but it is my duty as a Christian to make a believer out of you. That does not make me arrogant either – it just affirms my beliefs. So what do you say, ready to visit a church and see what all of this crap about?
UNI FAN, with all due respect, to call mormanism Christianity is not to understand what Christianity is. The Christian faith is different from any other faith in two different ways. First is the resuration, and two is the Immaculate conception. When someone denies the immaculate conception, then that person is not a Christian. How can someone deny one of the two major pillars of the Christian faith, and stll call themselves a Christian? Now we find out that they believe that someone else can win your salvation for you.
Then what is your excuse for doing this to other Christians who already "believe" and have already been baptized in their own faith of choice?
I understand that Pam. And that is exactly my point - why is your Church "so right?" I love you and all of you members, as I do my own church – and I don't think my church has to fix yours. We'll agree to disagree – but I do respect your religion as a celebration of Christ's love.
UNI,
It doesn't matter if you meant "who amung us Christians". You are still claiming to know something you can't possibly know, the existance of god. That is arrogance. Sorry.
And by the way, I spent 18 years in a church. Sorry again.
Joseph Smith was 14 when he saw the angel . it was later he wrote by hand the words given to him .
as for the baptisms of the dead . Apologies made and no harm meant . the soul can reject completely as a human being can with flesh. This would be a non subject if Romney was not running. BECAUSE this happens so rarely and has been so exagerated. the women who work on geneology ,we do this to help other families find how far they go back and we do it for ourselves to see if it is possible that we are of direct decent to our main prophet Smith. WE DO NOT DO THIS to find people to baptise after they die. we read the old and new testament Book of mormon Pearl of Great Price D&C we read a lot and have many get togethers and outtings with our families. Cult? hardly. Catholics get tossed like this all the time . Some of the things here I am reading are fear based and foolish.
My entire family converted to Mormonism except for me.......most of what you just said it BS. Nice white-wash try though.
Just the kind of US President we need!
There are countless ways to God and eventually all true believers will agree. My Catholic Church took centuries, but eventually got to it. Hopefully, everyone else will get there in due time. Until then it is understandable if you don't "believe this to be true", you have nothing otherwise.
Can you translate to english?
So if mormons aren't christians, why is their church named The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints?
Well mormons dont belive what a 'traditional' Christian believes. They belive that God is one of many gods, that they were all spirit babies before being born on this earth, that they can becomes gods of their own worlds after they die.
@mlstevens, how far back are you going with respect to "traditional" Christianity, because I can assure you that your Christianity is far from "traditional"
Just because you call a building or an organization a name those not mean it represent the true meaning of that name. If you don't believe in Immaculate conception, then you are not a Christian.
So what you are saying is that all "traditional" christians believe in all the same points of doctorine or in the very least they all believe in "Immaculate conception", right? Then why are there sooooo many different christian reliegions if they all believe the same thing? Why would mormons name themselves followers of Jesus Christ's church if they didn't believe in following him? Seems kinda pointless.
Yeah Ben, because the phrase "Immaculate conception" is in what book of the Bible?
This is bad Mo-Jo didn't you know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE
Just when you thought it couldn't be any crazier to be a Mormon...
Proxy baptisms on behalf of a person who has passed on is NOT BIDING on anyone who rejects that offering. If the person who has passed on does not accept it, all that happened is the Mormons wasted their time in respect to that person. The belief is based on the Biblical passage where Jesus said that a "man must be born of the spirit as well as of the water in order to be admitted into the kingdom of God" Read your Bible and actually practice what it says! Having said that, this particular member who submitted those names for that Temple ceremony should not have done so against Church policy. But – don't worry – No Jew, nor anybody else, is going to "Mormon Heaven" as you call it unless they fully consent to it. Freedom of choice is paramount in the Mormon faith.
all religions are silly.... funny how people make fun of this GOTCHYA converting of people who refused to convert in life. buddhism probably the only one without lunatic ideas
LDS.ORG
WACKOS.NUTZ
roflcopter