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 Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.
February 15th, 2012
04:21 PM ET
Mormons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parentsBy Moni Basu, CNN (CNN) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for "a serious breach of protocol" in which the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel were entered into the genealogy database, though not referred for baptism. Asher Wiesenthal and Rosa Rapp were baptised in proxy ceremonies in temples in Utah and Arizona, according to the database records discovered by researcher Helen Radkey in Salt Lake City. The Wiesenthal baptisms violated a 1995 pact in which the church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims. "We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names," said church spokesman Michael Purdy. "These submissions were clearly against the policy of the church. We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records." Mormons believe that they may be baptized by proxy for deceased ancestors who never had that opportunity. Church members, however, are supposed to request such baptisms only for their own relatives, Purdy said. The agreement over Holocaust victims came about after it was discovered that hundreds and thousands of names had been entered into Mormon records. Jewish leaders said it was sacrilegious for Mormons to suggest Jews on their own were not worthy enough to receive God's eternal blessing. Radkey, who has been tracking Mormon genealogy records for a while for people who ought not to be there, said she inadvertently stumbled upon the Wiesenthal name a few weeks ago. Among others people she discovered had been baptized by proxy is President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the baptisms. Wiesenthal's father died in combat in World War I. His mother perished at the Belzec concentration camp in 1942. Holocaust survivor Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 after spending years hunting down Nazis. "We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews and Mormon officials. "Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust," he said in a written statement. He expressed gratitude to Radkey for "exposing the latest outrage." Radkey also found the names of relatives of Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, author and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. "In this case, the Wiesel family names were not submitted for baptisms but simply entered into a genealogical database," Purdy said. "Our system would have rejected those names had they been submitted." Purdy said it was "distressing" that church members had violated policy and regretted that "an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention." Radkey said the church makes such breaches possible because any member can submit a name not connected to their own family. "There are way too many entries slipping through the cracks, including Jewish Holocaust victims," she said. "It's (the Mormons') belief to save the dead that is causing the problem." Wiesel, meanwhile, told the Huffington Post that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, should speak to his own church and tell them to stop the practice of proxy baptisms on Jews. soundoff (2,053 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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The dead may have been lucky. Mormans are known, proven Cannibals! Remember the Donner Party!
Prayer changes things . .
Prayer changes things .
i love sucking off little mormon choir boys
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................................
i stroke it every night while smoking a big fat doobie, drinking a few beers and snorting much cocaine
mormon boys are the best-they have tight bu ngh 0les and dont scream
First Santorum takes a cadaver home for his children to see, now this ... Wow! Religious people are weird.
I hope my German Baptist Brethren $x-great grandparents haunt the Mormons forever!
Oops, should be 4x great grandparents!
My 8th great-grandmother and her family were burned at the stake for deviltry in the Rhineland Palatinate because they chose to follow Martin Luther. I'll bet I could channel them for a hex or two 🙂
(she somehow escaped from the fire, and lived the rest of her badly scarred - yep, she eventually died anyway)
satan is the king of all kings!
the god of all gods!
satan will rule his rightful realm soon enough
mother earth will kneel down and let king satan back to rule her!
mormons will be the first target of satans armies
mormons BEGONE!
yawn
Dude, whatever you're smoking....smoke less.
Take away their damn bicycles!
Disrespectful no doubt about that. However, being baptized is a personal choice and if we're going back to John The Baptist we'll do well to take into account that he only baptized those that came and requested it. Then the person was physically put under water. SOOOOO...if being baptized is a personal choice then the "proxy" would be null and void by anyone who believes otherwise. I could be baptized by the Mormons after death, but it wouldn't make any difference on what I believe MY salvation to be. I
Nothing happened either way. A total non-issue.
Well, if this ain't a white people scandal, I'm don't know what is! Madness!
First World problem for sure.
The reason we (Mormons) baptize for the dead is because we believe that ours is the only true and living church on the face of the earth that has authority from God to perform these ordinances of salvation. It isn't out of insensitivity, or lack of respect for the beliefs of others. Just as Jesus sought out John the Baptist (proper authority) for baptism, we believe that you must have this ordinance to receive salvation. For those who never had the opportunity to accept this ordinance while living, we offer them the chance to accept it. It isn't forced on them, they can either accept or decline it. It is like offering someone admission; and they choose to either accept it or not. I don't see the hate/insensitivity in that; but rather I see care and love for people you don't even know. Someone taking the time/effort to do this work should be appreciated, not condemned.
As far as the 1 member that didn't follow proper procedure for getting names approved; I agree that was wrong and the church has apologized for that.
"we believe that ours is the only true and living church on the face of the earth that has authority from God to perform these ordinances of salvation." That sentence is what others find rude and offensive, your insulting their own beliefs and religious practices by saying they are not right/correct. And then add insult to injury by performing a baptism to correct their beliefs.
In today's day and age no sane person can utter the words, "we believe we are the only true church of god" and be considered relevant. Your religion is less than 200 years old. Before and since that time, numerous chuches, cults, beliefs or whatever you want to call them have popped up all over the world. I'm sure they've all claimed to be the one and only way to god. That of course brings us back to measuring sanity. How can you think that god would give you such power over all beings on the earth that they MUST be mormons in life and AFTER life? That's megalomania. That's one of the first signs of a cult: "Our way is the only way."
You do realize that with your beliefs coming out into the open, Romney stands little chance of being elected president of the US don't you? Nobody is going to want a leader that thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong. Mormons believe that their religion isn't just a religions it's a way of life. So basically the mormon corporate church would be running the country as a Theocracy. That's what we fought to rid ourselves from during the Revolution. We won't allow you people to throw us back into the dark ages.
You do anything to make money for your cult.
@Loyal: By church law/decree followers are encouraged or sometimes required to give up 10% of their incomes to the LDS church. So yes they do raise money for the cult.
They are dead – how can they accept or decline! It is a horrible practice. Frankly it is disturbing in the extreme.
@Lane
The reason I (Lincaist) baptize the dead is because I believe that mine is the only true and living church on the face of the earth that has authority from god to perform these ordinances of salvation. It isn't out of insensitivity, or lack of respect for the beliefs of others. Just as Jesus sought out John the Baptist (proper authority) for baptism, I believe that you must have this ordinance to receive salvation. For those who never had the opportunity to accept this ordinance while living, I offer them the chance to accept it. It isn't forced on them, they can either accept or decline it. It is like offering someone admission; and they choose to either accept it or not. I don't see the hate/insensitivity in that; but rather I see care and love for people I don't even know. Someone taking the time/effort to do this work should be appreciated, not condemned.
The difference is only in how we baptize. The only approved method is by urinating on the grave of the deceased. He or she is still free to accept or decline the invitation to salvation.
So, next time you see someone at a cemetery peeing on a grave, shake his hand and thank him for the wonderful work he's doing. Just remember to wash your hands afterwards.
@Thinkmorm
That is where your understanding of the church is incorrect. We believe that our church is the same authority that has existed throughout time; It isn't about the church buildings, it is about the priesthood (authority). We believe that authority is the same that has existed throughout time; from Jesus Christ, to Adam, to Melchizedek, to Abraham, to Moses to Aaron to Isaiah, to Christ's Apostles (Peter, James, John etc) and it was only restored to the earth 200 years ago (by those same Apostles that held it 2000 years ago) through the prophet Joseph Smith. Wasn't it Christ himself that said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me" – so why would His only true church be any different?
@ ThinkHard – What is so insensitive about "Right and Wrong"? You can most definitely have respect for someone, even though they are not correct or don't believe the same things you do. I don't see what is insensitive/offensive about truth? Was it insensitive for people that believed the earth rotated around the sun to tell people that believed the sun rotated around the earth that they were wrong? Truth is truth; I don't understand why truth is rude or offensive.
Lane,
Why do you need to perform this ordanance at all? Shouldn't it be offered to them after death by God? And if so, then why do it to the living either, since it will be available after death for eternity?
Or maybe I shouldn't ask too many questions. I see a rabbit hole appearing.
@tickled
Truth is never a rabbit hole, you asked a sincere question, here is the answer. Ordinances such as baptism (among others) must be performed here on earth. They must be performed by one having the proper authority on earth. Once a person dies, their spirit separates from their body so the ordinance can't be performed by them, so the work is done by proxy. The baptism is done for, and in behalf of the person that has passed on already. There was a reason Jesus Christ was baptized while he was on earth; even the great Jehovah (Christ) was required to be baptized by the proper authority "To fulfil all righteousness".
just as you postulated, God does offer this to them after death; and it comes in the form of vicarious work for the dead that we do here on earth. God offers them the chance of accepting this ordinance (in this case baptism) that was performed on earth, by the proper authority for that person that died without having the opportunity of having it done while they were alive. At that point, they have the agency to choose either to accept the work, or decline it.
"The reason we (Mormons) baptize for the dead is because we believe that ours is the only true and living church on the face of the earth that has authority from God to perform these ordinances of salvation" ..... That is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard.
Its a well know fact that we at the Church of FSM (Flying spaghetti Monster) have the only true and living church on the face of the earth that has authority from the great noodley one to perform these ordinances of salvation, using only holy Marinara sauce of course, blessed by Chef Boyardee himself.
So they think that their fairy tales about morality are better than Jewish fairy tales about morality, to the point where they take a shower and claim it is a proxy baptism for a dead person?
All organized religion is insane, but I think that we openly accept the major ones because "hey, at least they're not as nutso as the Mormons".
This is why all religions are so stupid. Christianity and Islam are just as full of "Wow, how can they believe this crap?" stuff as Mormonism and scientology , but because they've been around for 2,000 more years we just let them off the hook.
2000 years also makes it more difficult to prove or disprove their case. Mormonism (LDSness?) is at a disadvantage, since the ridiculous Joseph Smith story is fairly easily dismissed by most people.
In the Church of the "Great Flying Spaghetti Monster (Church of FSM) We baptize dead Muslims, Jews, Rastafarians, even born again Christians live or dead, dogs cats, whatever we at the Church of FSM believe all creatures are equal and eternal.
As a pope of Discordianism, I declare holy war on the blasphemous fools of the FSM! Your pirate regalia won't save you this time!
Your puny forces are nothing to the power of his noodley appendages, you will be strained through the great colander, and topped with Parmesan.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! That was the laugh I needed all day!! Thanks y'all....too freaking funny!!
if i find out that they baptise my dead daughter i will sue them
And the basis of your suit and justification for damages lol.....Relax cupcake... mormons are wacky people acting wacky making wacky pacts.
Usually (now keeping in mind that this is what they did when I was a member and that's been a few years...it could have changed, like their blood oath they take in the temple changed) they wait a generation to baptize someone that has passed away. So they would wait until you had passed so that they wouldn't have to ask for your permission. That's why dates are as important as names when they do all of their research.
If Mormons were caught baptizing dead jews again like they were... I'm sure they've baptized dead Muslims.
They have baptized Hitler....that in its own should say somemthing
Why is this even a newsworthy story???? Seriously, who cares if the mormons feel the urge to baptize anyone who's name they can get ahold of? Really, people are actually outraged at this? GET A LIFE PEOPLE, FIND A REAL PROBLEM TO GET MAD AT!!
Why are people disgusted with mormons baptizing Jews that died for their religion during the Holocaust? Seriously? Nothing like a mormon saying that Jews are all wrong unless they convert to mormonism in the afterlife, especially if they were tortured because they wouldn't give up their heritage.
Mormons think that they are the only TRUE church on the earth and they can't imagine that anyone would argue against that. WOW!
I'd like to see them try to baptize dead Muslims – there'd be burning Mormon temples everytwhere! They are doing this only to make it look like there are/were more Mormons than there ever actually were. The Roman Catholics tried something similar with live Jewish children during WWII, saying they only wanted to protect them from the Nazis. Bull – the truth came out after the war when they refused to give the children back to the parents looking for them.
I want to make my own choice of religion. I do not want anyone else to be able to have me "baptized" after death. That is wrong!
Well if someone baptizes you after you die, be sure to complain and tell them how wrong it is!
Well, that's the problem with a poorly written article: it makes you think that "baptisms for the dead" force you to be Mormon. They don't. From what I understand, Mormons are just following John 3:5, and giving dead people the option of accepting the baptism in the next life, but it's not forced on anyone. (Mormons actually think there will be multiple religions in the next life, btw.) Sort of makes sense, I guess, cuz dead people don't have a body any more to get baptized.
The Mormon church already had a policy against doing them on Holocaust survivors and one person sneaked around those policies.
Mormons I know (they like to be called LDS, cuz their church is actually the Church of Jesus Chris of Latter-day Saints) are really decent and have a lot of respect for other religions.
DAAAAAAAAaaaaannnng, religious people – you SILLY!
One bunch of yutzes with weird supernatural beliefs, gettin' they shorts all in a knot over what some other bunch of putzes with different weird supernatural beliefs do when they wave they hands and woo-woo over a list of names.
There IS a problem of disrespect, but there is also a bigger problem of abstraction and plain zaniness. Anybody not indoctrinated can easily see this whole thing in perspective, and it's just pathetic what we as a large group of individuals let ourselves waste time and effort and energy on, when there are so many real, non-abstract problems that are hurting real, living people.
It's common practice for the LDS church to baptize for the dead.
Extremely dis-respectful common practice