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 Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal.
February 15th, 2012
04:21 PM ET
Mormons apologize for posthumous baptisms of Wiesenthal's parentsBy Moni Basu, CNN (CNN) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for "a serious breach of protocol" in which the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel were entered into the genealogy database, though not referred for baptism. Asher Wiesenthal and Rosa Rapp were baptised in proxy ceremonies in temples in Utah and Arizona, according to the database records discovered by researcher Helen Radkey in Salt Lake City. The Wiesenthal baptisms violated a 1995 pact in which the church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims. "We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names," said church spokesman Michael Purdy. "These submissions were clearly against the policy of the church. We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person's ability to access our genealogy records." Mormons believe that they may be baptized by proxy for deceased ancestors who never had that opportunity. Church members, however, are supposed to request such baptisms only for their own relatives, Purdy said. The agreement over Holocaust victims came about after it was discovered that hundreds and thousands of names had been entered into Mormon records. Jewish leaders said it was sacrilegious for Mormons to suggest Jews on their own were not worthy enough to receive God's eternal blessing. Radkey, who has been tracking Mormon genealogy records for a while for people who ought not to be there, said she inadvertently stumbled upon the Wiesenthal name a few weeks ago. Among others people she discovered had been baptized by proxy is President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced the baptisms. Wiesenthal's father died in combat in World War I. His mother perished at the Belzec concentration camp in 1942. Holocaust survivor Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 after spending years hunting down Nazis. "We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews and Mormon officials. "Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust," he said in a written statement. He expressed gratitude to Radkey for "exposing the latest outrage." Radkey also found the names of relatives of Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, author and Nobel Peace Prize laureate. "In this case, the Wiesel family names were not submitted for baptisms but simply entered into a genealogical database," Purdy said. "Our system would have rejected those names had they been submitted." Purdy said it was "distressing" that church members had violated policy and regretted that "an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention." Radkey said the church makes such breaches possible because any member can submit a name not connected to their own family. "There are way too many entries slipping through the cracks, including Jewish Holocaust victims," she said. "It's (the Mormons') belief to save the dead that is causing the problem." Wiesel, meanwhile, told the Huffington Post that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, should speak to his own church and tell them to stop the practice of proxy baptisms on Jews. soundoff (2,053 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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All of you are missing the point!!! This practice of baptizing dead jews is it is extremely disrespectful to the jews. I'm jewish, and I'm proud of being jewish. I don't want to convert. The reason this is sickening, is not because they're "being converted" it's because it's being done to people who lived their whole lives as jews. The holocaust survivors that were baptized, they went through years of being in a damn concentration camp, living through fears that they wouldn't be alive the next day, the were punished for being jewish by the nazis. After you had gone through all that to survive, some mormon guy baptizes your dead body. It is offensive to the entire jewish religion. They have even baptized Anne Frank 9 times. This is an insult, this is a racial crime against jews. I'm just trying to but my point out there, please don't try to talk about any political crap in this.
Also on a minor note, type in jew and jewish in the comment space. It's kinda racist that it comes up as a misspelled word.
Your ancestors are not just baptized and confirmed as members of the mormon faith. Also necessary for salvation are initiatory and endowment ordinances. All names submitted to the temple are baptised, confirmed, recieve initiatory and endowment, and are then "sealed" to family over an altar. The temples frequently run out of names and "recycle", so temple work is frequently done many times per dead person.
Initiatory involves washing and anointing, partially clothed (the proxy, of course), in preparation for becoming a king and priest, or queen and priestess unto the most high god, hereafter to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever. The proxy then recieves their new name, sacred and holy, never to be repeated outside of the temple. I feel safe revealing mine, as I am an exmormon. My temple name was Ruth, as were all other ladies in the temple that day. When I returned to do the work on behalf of dead people, they recieved names like Naomi, Eliza, Abish, Esther, Lucy, and Martha.
The endowment involves watching a film, (or live action in select temples), which details the mormon view of the creation. A series of special handshakes and passwords are learned to ensure access to heaven. Mormons are strongly cautioned to keep these ceremonies secret, though they prefer the term sacred. Penalties, spiritual and physical, are threatened if confidentiality is breached. As I've left the church, I feel safe! Details of these ceremonies can be found with a simple google search.
I propose that the late Joseph Smith be awarded “After-Life” membership of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
This is the same thing as the Powell family not wanting Josh buried next to the boys.. It ruins the peace that the family might feel for the deceased. The mormon church has taken away from the living family members of the holocaust surviors any chance at peace that they might have found for their loved ones. This is the very definition of a HATE CRIME and there should be a prosecution.
"HATE CRIME"?
Apparently, your comment falls under the category of the first word. While your acts qualify you to the second.
I'm surprised at the hostility this issue has brought out. Performing a proxy baptism for someone who is dead cannot, in any way, obligate that individual to that commitment....that is, if you believe God to be just. So if the Mormons feel they have the true gospel and that baptism is essential for salvation, it is nothing more than an act of service on their part to perform these baptisms. It's not like they gain anything by doing the baptisms. What could possibly be their wicked motive? No one should be offended by it, in my opinion. If the Mormon religion is wrong, then what harm do the baptisms cause? It's not like God is going to hold someone to a baptism that they did not choose. And if the Mormon religion happens to be right, there might be a lot of individuals who in the next life discover that to be the case and will be grateful to the Mormons for having done something for them that they couldn't do for themselves. I'm stunned at the hatred I'm hearing here. I'm stunned that someone would call proxy baptism a hate crime when it is nothing of the sort. If someone performs a baptism on your behalf and you don't want it, then don't accept it. It's simple.
Any story CNN can post that will show the Mormon Church (Romney) in a bad light and will help to get Obama re-elected, it'll post. All these negative stories about the Mormons that CNN has been airing and posting over the last few months are intended to damage Romney politically. It's a way to both hurt Romney and help Obama indirectly without actually mentioning the name of either. CNN, do you really think you're clever? Do you really think you are fooling anyone? If Romney was not expected to be the republican nominee, you never would have ran this story. It's because of blatant, transparent bias like this that you have sunk like a rock in the ratings. People see through it and they are tired of it.
I've had many members of my family killed in the Holocaust. I think it's pretty foolish to convert people when they're dead and have no say in the matter.
If Mitt Romney has great ideas & a true & powerful message. I would vote for him. Is he in touch with the regular U.S. citizens???
Yeah, they do it because it's desecrating those in the grave, genius. If the LDS church could keep their stupid rituals off of the jews like they have apologized for and continued to do so, there wouldn't be problems.
As I read the article, I found a lot of dates, like the pact of 1995, Simon Wiesenthal's death in 2005, his mother's death in 1942, etc.. But I wonder how could the author missed the date of the said baptism. Despite the fact that LDS database has a complete and precise data on the records. Sounds wierd.
*weird
So the Hateful Christian Bigots afraid of a MORMON who may become President...(Heaven forbid.)....actually give a standing ovation to a Serial Adulterer-Newt Gingrich in the South Carolina Debate for blaming John King for asking a question about one of Newt's former Mistress/wives claiming he asked for an "open marraige" which he was at the time actually engaged in by CHEATING on his wife although it may not have been OPEN to her yet...The Anybody but Romney -Mormon Hating Bigots many of whom are Evangelicals who claim to be so PIOUS and Righteous....they are the ones who put forth stories like this one to discredit Mitt Romney. They would rather have a Serial Adulterer....Barabas.... in South Carolina than a man who is faithful to his wife of 42 years. They hold a SECRET meeting of Evangelical Leaders in Texas with ONE PURPOSE....TO DERAIL THE MORMON. This Anti-Mormon Bigotry is Pathetic. It is UN-American. It is hateful and very Anti-Christian.
As far as Mormon's doing Baptisms "on behalf of the dead"....GIVE ME A BREAK.
All they are doing is saying a prayer for the Dead person in their name. One Mormon baptizes another Mormon and says a prayer mentioning the dead person's name....WHOOPEE
My Catholic friends say prayers for me all the time because they are AFRAID I am going to Hell. I am not offended by that.
Get over your Bigotry America.
Mitt Romney according to Jack Welch former CEO of General Electric "Is the Most Qualified Person In MY LIFETIME to Run for President".
Jack Welch is NOT Mormon.
We are $16 Trillion in debt. That is 16 THOUSAND BILLION!
We need Mitt Romney to help turn our Economy around and deal with our Debt!
Stop being a Bigot and Be and AMERICAN.
Reply
They should apologize for knocking on people's doors too!
Why do Mormons actually believe that Jesus was a White Man?
Jesus was born and raised in Palestine/Isreal, there would be more of an Arab look versus a white colonist look.
Given that, all the racists in the Quorum of Twelve Dwarfs need to be replaced with Arabic Mormons, the true Christians.
NoMormonInWhiteHouse blogspot com
Why do Jews believe they are the Chosen ones.? They are no more special than a starving Kenyan aids patient
Everyone know they snuck oil into the menorah lamp to keep it burning longer and just lied about it being a miracle.
As for me, in my sight the Mormons are a dangerous cult. All their service is void.
Nevertheless, seemingly the baptism of the dead was practiced even by the true Early Church:
1Cor 15: 29: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
As far as I know this verse is the only verse of the Bible, which refers to the subject of baptism of the dead. Probably, it was a marginal matter. Furthermore, there were not many dead Christians, which had not been baptized during their life, because during the apostolic age the people converted and got immediately baptized after that.
Hence, first we should figure out the basic meaning of baptism. The baptism, which is mentioned in the Bible, is the sacramental baptism of the worldwide Christian Church. It has nothing to do with the re-baptism of some Free Churches (actually re-baptism is prohibited).
When someone has heard the gospel that Jesus has died for him on the cross and borne his sins there, he may believe that to a certain extent. However, this faith may be weak and needs to be strengthened. One could reason: "Very good; when Jesus has borne my sins, I can sin more now and get more grace". This would be the perverse interpretation of the gospel by the fallen human reason. In order to avoid this misinterpretation of the gospel we need the sacramental baptism, where we get almost physically connected with Christ's death and resurrection (Romans 6). All barriers of time and space disappear at baptism and we die and resurrect together with Jesus in a real sense. Our old man of sin dies and we get a new life in Jesus Christ. No preacher can explain the gospel, how we experience it at sacramental baptism. After sacramental baptism we "must" believe, because we were almost physically at Calvary together with our Lord. After baptism we are able to live and have to live a Christian life of love in Christ's releasing power according to the Sermon on the Mount or the doctrines of the Epistles of the New Testament.
The sacramental baptism is the the gateway to a Christian life (not a gateway to heaven). If we keep the faith and live the Christian life, we will finally reach heaven.
Yeah whatever, Do you have any proof ?
It was my understanding that Joseph Smith thought all the dead should be baptized and given the "chance" to embrace Jesus Christ, not just the ancestors of Mormons. Sounds, like the LDS church is being hypocritical again and bending to someone's whining, just as they did with the plural marriage issue.
Since the author keeps saying that Mormons are baptizing dead people, it sounds kind of strange like someone is taking a dead body and sticking it underwater. Nothing of the sort, a little research (mormon.org) shows that Mormons believe that all should be baptized as a requirement for the righteous to return to God/Heaven, even as Jesus was baptized, even though he was perfect, to set an example. So, this baptism for the dead thing is actually having people/proxies get baptized on behalf of each deceased person. Doctrinally, it allows even people who never heard of Christ in this life, to have the opportunity to accept or reject Him and baptism done in their behalf in the next life. Kind of interesting.
If Mormons could get away with digging up the bodies, the Mormons would buy cemetaries and dig up all the coffins, baptize the corpses, then throw the coffin back in the hole – now blessed Mormonite.
Cults are dangerous, but unfortunately not illegal.
A boy name Joe had hallucinations on a hill in New York, talked to angels, thought he was given gold plates, plagerized large portions of the bible, and declared it scripture.
Mental illnes was around in the 1800s, and Joey certainly was wacko. Delusions of grandeur, hallucinations – nowadays there are psych wards for nuts like that.
NoMormonInWhiteHouse blogspot com
facebook com tlunrine
If anyone is looking to baptize me in the afterlife, they can find me at the Starbucks.
What you're going to do here? We don't receive welfare tickets as payment.
Mormons don't drink coffee, that is why I joked about Starbucks. Relax. 🙂
Since there never were an Adam and Eve, Garden of Paradise or talking serpent, there never was any original sin i.e. baptism is a silly supersti-tion that even the Catholic church is slowly coming to grips with.
From the white board notes of a Catholic Professor of Theology:
"The story of Adam and Eve is only symbolic.
Yes, this story was composed in the 900s BCE and functions as an etiology (explanatory myth) . In the 900s Israel was self ruling, under King David and Solomon. The people were no longer at war and the question" Why are we not happy?" may have been asked. The short answer is sin. (Look at 1 Kings 11 for some clues into why the story depicts Eve sinning first and then tempting Adam [Solomon]).
Original sin is therefore only symbolic of man's tendencies to sin.
Yes, I teach Original Sin as symbolic of the sins of our origins – in our
families and in the broader society, both of which affect each person
profoundly. The "sins of our origins" approach helps to account for certain
patterns of sin in particular families and societies.
Baptism does not erase original sin since the sin does not exist. Yes, the old "laundry of the soul," approach to Baptism is no longer accepted.
Infant Baptism is only a rite of initiation and commits parents and godparents to bringing up the child in a Christian home.
Yes, but, since baptism is now celebrated at Sunday Eucharist, all the members of the parish family are encouraged to pledge their support and care for the faith life of the newly baptized. (A manifestation of this is
persons volunteering to teach other people's kids the basics of Catholicism.)"
As per National Geographic's Genographic project:
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/
" DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago (added note: bible time has Adam living about 6000 years ago) began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.
"Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.
Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.
It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have heard the words "The Jews died for their religion" too much on this thread. The Jews did not die for their religion (although their ethnicity and religion are synonymous), they died for their ethnicity. They died because they were of Jewish decent. Hitler didn't want anyone except for one supreme race. Just wanted to clear up the difference between dying for your religion and dying for your ethnicity. Still doesn't diminish how horrific genocide is for any and all people.
On to bigger and better things: I think this baptism of people after they are dead is insanity. But, I have a very difficult time judging the Mormons as I am Catholic and we pray to get dead people out of Purgatory. The only real difference is that we aren't trying to convert them to Catholicism after death – just trying to get them into Heaven.
Well, if you believe that only Catholicism is correct, then you are essentially praying that dead people will accept it in full after death in order to end up in heaven....sounds pretty much like the same thing.
Just saying – you are absolutely INCORRECT about what you think Catholics believe about Purgatory but since it is a very confusing concept, I want to explain it to you. Purgatory is for those who accepted Christ during their lifetimes and weren't free from sin at the moment of their death. One must be in a complete state of Grace (free from sin) to get into Heaven immediately. God cannot have sin in his presence. This is why confession is offered during Last Rites/Anointing of the Sick. It is often a person's last opportunity to get right with God. Unfortunately, most people don't die in the presence of a priest – making it impossible for them to be in a complete state of Grace before death. On the flip side of the coin, those who rejected Christ go straight to Hell. Despite the common misconception of non-Catholics, Purgatory is not a waiting room after death where one is prayed into Heaven or prayed out of Heaven. If you are in Purgatory, you're getting into Heaven – it's only a matter of time. Just thought I'd clear the air on that one because it is one of the more confusing facets of the Catholic faith.
I think you should re-read what I wrote. You ASSUMED I believe that Catholicism is the only way to Heaven. I was simply pointing out to the distinct misconceptions that non-Catholics have about Purgatory. Again, if you go to Purgatory, you are going to get into heaven once your sins have been atoned for. You have already accepted Christ while you are alive. This is different than Mormons who baptize by proxy in order to give people the choice to choose God in the afterlife. BIG difference there.
What a joke! A Jewish soul (born of a mother who is Jewish according to Jewish law) is always a Jewish soul, even if the person "converts" to another religion or is "converted" by someone else. When the True Messiah comes (soon, please), the whole world will understand this, even the Mormons!
have u heard?????
mormons have the tightest bu ngh) les ever!
the mormon choir boys give the best head! they swallow and take it like a champ without screaming
mormons............hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i love sucking off little mormon choir boys
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................................
i stroke it every night while smoking a big fat doobie, drinking a few beers and snorting much cocaine
mormon boys are the best-they have tight bu ngh 0les and dont scream!!!!!!!!!!!
OH! I hope they are busy baptizing the ACLU! Please say they are! Do they need names? Lets keep both pesky groups busy and off the streets 🙂
You want the ACLU in heaven? Sure you've thought this through? Okay, they can come,but no practicing law or Hitler will be walking through the pearly gates soon after.
Remember America, when you think it's safe to vote for Romney, he's a mormon and mormons believe in a Theocratic Monarchy like their creator Joseph Smith did. It's not worth the risk to get him in the White House just because he seems a little less crazy than Santorum. Do your research. Avoid mormon.org because it's a propaganda site. Ask about blood oaths, secret names, secret underwear, The White Horse Prophesy, how the Native Americans are decended from Jews and how Joseph Smith married a 13 year old girl even though he was still married to his wife Emma. Don't forget that they believe they will become gods themselves, ruling over thier own planets and that they believe in more than one god, including a "heavenly mother" making their religion polythiesm. SO much more to discover about this crazy cult. Find out for yourself. Don't fall for their fuzzy, warm commercials. We're living in 2012 now, not the 1830's when people were brainwashed a heck of a lot easier.
Right... That's like telling someone researching Jews to avoid talking to Jews, and instead talk to a skinhead. Thanks for setting us straight, preach. Mormons stealing all your parishioners? Maybe if you'd preach Jesus's gospel of love instead of preaching hate for other religions it wouldn't be a problem. Oh, but what about your paycheck? Oh noes, Mormon preachers are volunteers. You can't compete with a profit margin like that, unless you spew fear and lies. Want to know what Mormons believe? Go read the Bible.
Bob is right, "pastmorm" is wrong and not intelligent enough to create a username that doesn't clearly indicate he is biased. Who offended you by not saying it's okay to break a few commandments?
Hey bob and toddles. I'm a 7th generation mormon; my ancestor Shadrach Roundy is in the doctrine and covenants...actually I left the church after serving my mission to GA in the early 90's because I couldn't stand the lies I was forced to teach people. I couldn't stand the fact that I was tearing families apart because I had to tell them that we mormons knew better than they did. We had a feeling of superiority because that's how we're raised and bob and toddles...with your arrogant, bullying comments you proved what I just said to be correct. All I pointed out in my posting above is for people to find out for themselves...just like mormons tell investigators. So, you don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot do you? Hypocrites.
@pastmorm Repentance and forgiveness can be hard, but they're much more noble than the easy path of hate. Satan teaches hate and lies, pride and ego. Jesus teaches love, forgiveness, tolerance and selflessness. We're all either on the road toward one or the other. I hope you can find your path.
Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things .
prayer doesn't seem to be changing your boring tune. Why don't you just go to bed, we don't care what you have to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0A3WMOLOKo&feature=related
Islam is just plain sick
Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
Current crises:
The global Sunni-Shiite blood feud (e.g. Syria) and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.