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February 16th, 2012
01:36 PM ET

Explainer: How and why do Mormons baptize the dead?

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

The recent disclosure that Mormons baptized the dead parents of Jewish Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal by proxy has sparked outrage in the Jewish world. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has apologized for the baptism, which it says resulted from the actions of a church member acting in violation of church policy. The LDS church vowed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims in 1995.

But proxy baptism for the dead is a proud Mormon tradition. Here are the basics about how it works and why Mormons do it.

Why do Mormons practice proxy baptism for the dead?

For Mormons, baptizing the dead solves a big theological problem: How do billions of people who never had the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ – including those who lived before Jesus walked the earth – receive salvation? By baptizing the dead, a practice known as posthumous proxy baptism, Mormons believe they are giving every person who ever lived the chance at everlasting life. That includes Muslims, Hindus, atheists, pagans, whoever.

“Mormons believe that there is a place the dead go where they are in ‘spirit prison’ and where they have the chance to accept the Christian baptism,” says Richard Bushman, a Mormon scholar at Columbia University. “But it’s a duty to actually perform Christian ordinance of baptism, so Mormons seek out every last person who ever lived and baptize them.”

Many Mormons are proud of the fact that they attempt to make their faith universal through baptizing the dead. “Historically, Christians have been exclusive,” says Terryl Givens, an expert on Mormonism at the University of Richmond. “Catholics have taught that only Catholics are saved, and evangelicals say only if you confess according to their tradition. Mormons say, ‘No, salvation is open to all people.’”

“In that sense Mormonism is the most nonexclusive religion in the Christian world,” Givens says.

So are all those who are baptized after death considered Mormon?

No. Mormons believe that baptism provides the deceased with the opportunity to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but not the obligation. They don't know if the dead actually accept Jesus. “This is about putting names on the guest list,” says Givens. “They might not go the party, but they are given the chance.’

How does the church decide who is baptized?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints encourages its members to baptize the dead in their families going back at least four generations.

The church also has teams at headquarters in Salt Lake City and that travel around the world to identify as many people as possible to baptize, whether or not they’re in the lineage of present-day Mormons. “The church is constantly going through parish records, wills, deeds and every other genealogical source so they can extract names and put these people through the temple process,” says Bushman.

The LDS says it does not know how many deceased have been baptized. Experts say the number is in the millions.

There is no way for a person to prevent himself or herself from being baptized by the LDS church after death.

After Jews complained about baptisms of Jewish Holocaust victims, saying such baptisms deny the Jewish identity of those who died because of their faith, the LDS church worked with Jewish groups to stop the practice. But the system of preventing the baptism of Holocaust victims, initiated in 1995, has not been foolproof, as was shown this week with the disclosure about Wiesenthal’s parents.

What are Mormon baptism ceremonies like?

Baptisms for the dead happen inside Mormon temples. Members of the LDS church volunteer to undergo full immersion baptism while the names of the dead are read. An LDS member might participate in 10 or so posthumous proxy baptisms at a time. Young Mormons especially are encouraged to participate, as a way to participate in temple life.

How old is the practice of baptizing the dead?

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, introduced baptism for the dead in the 1840s. Mormons cite Paul’s letter to the Corinthians as precedent to the practice. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead not rise at all?” reads Corinthians 15:29. “Why are they then baptized for the dead?”

For Mormons, baptizing the dead is not seen as a new Mormon tradition but as a practice that ancient Christians practiced and that the LDS Church has reintroduced.

What other questions do you have about the practice? Let us know in the comments below.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Judaism • Mormonism

soundoff (2,301 Responses)
  1. Calvin

    Mormonism no doubt is a fake and perverse way of trying to usurp the gospel. If you do real studies into Mormon beliefs you will shocked at the blasphemies. No doubt Mormonism was the handiwork of a conman Joseph Smith who was so good that he continues to fool people to this day.

    Come out of it my friends....there is actually no need to be in any religion. Believe in the Lord Jesus with all your heart and we shall be saved,

    February 19, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
  2. pastmorm

    Possibly the funniest thing on this chat board is that it's the mormons that start getting verbally abusive with their bullying attacks at people that would dare question their religion. Just a heads up people. I was raised mormon (no longer one) and I'm hear to tell you that mormons will go for your throat if you challenge their beliefs. They take a blood oath in their temple to protect their secret rituals and their practices. Seriously, look it up, I can't make this stuff up.
    And yes, they do believe they will become gods when they die, if they can make it to a place called the Celestial Kingdom. They also believe that your christian god was once a man himself, living on a planet with temptations just like you and I. So if you think doing baptisms for the dead is odd...WOW, you've only opened the can of worms!

    February 18, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
    • Kevin

      Blood oath? Please.

      February 19, 2012 at 4:11 am |
    • TColeman

      You are completely wrong about a "blood oath". When you recommend someone "look it up" where are you recommending they look? I suggest go to the primary source – lds.org, or read the actual Book of Mormon, or talk with a Mormon Missionary, or talk with someone who is an actual member of the Mormon church.

      February 19, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
  3. Zwei Stein

    I thought Christians only believed in ONE god. Mormons believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that all men become a god after death. So, which god decides which planet you get? So many gods. [Hey, forget it ladies, I'm not talking to you 'nothings.']

    February 18, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  4. Usman Akhtar

    NO Doubt in My Mind that Jews are Going to Paradise. GOD love them and promise for their protection. Jews and every one should watch these videos to see who and what I am talking about. Who order Mosses to hit his staff in the Water and how Mosses was able to kill Ferro and his entire army so easily? Who ordered Mosses to hit his staff on the rocks and 12 springs gush out of the rocks. Who gave Jews the food when they were hungry and when they wake up there was food for everyone? To know the answers to these questions watch these videos.
    http://youtu.be/AiX5AN1XiZg
    http://youtu.be/mFcrCiaqfEg
    http://youtu.be/okazbOSMKSQ
    http://youtu.be/LkXtzxKbthg
    Watch where this Red car is going.
    http://youtu.be/Gpex5x6YlL4
    Usman Akhtar

    February 18, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • Zwei Stein

      Were those Utube videos made by god too? Or just another fifteen year old kid in Illinois? Usman...just give us the answer.

      February 18, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
  5. jill

    Here's the funniest part of the whole thing: Jesus was a Jew. Yup, Rabbi Joshua, lived and died a devout Jew. He was never baptized- baptism wasn't even around then- it was a mikvah he was immersed in. So, stop using your rituals to do duty to something that is man-made to begin with, and evolved by people who wanted to trump Judaism by saying it was outdated, and that the "new and only" path was through Jesus. He'd be appalled.

    February 18, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Matthew

      Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, in case you forgot that part....

      February 19, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  6. rfh

    These people are trying to make an issue out of nothing. Two things: First these people who have died are not beholding to any living human beings, in other words, they can't stop them from being baptized, no more than Mormons can make these people who have passed on be Mormons! Why? Because these people and all people who live in mortality then die retain their agency to choose! If they accept the baptism because they now recognize their Ressurrected Savior as their Lord: Fine! If they don't accept the baptism: Fine! It's their choice! So people, like Helen Rackie are simply attention hounds, trying to bring discredit on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which of course, will not succeed - for the very reasons I've just explained. Our spiritis, which continue after our bodies die can choose for themselves whether they accept their baptism by the Lord's Priesthood and church.

    February 18, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
  7. Leave the Jews in hell

    Leave the Jews in hell. I am a Christian and I know that if a person does not accept Christ and is not baptized they go straight to hell, period. How dare the Mormons show such hate by giving Jews a chance at salvation. A loving God would never do that, He wants them to go to hell and stay there. Shame on you Mormons, try to act more Christian.

    February 18, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • BoldGeorge

      I am sure you are an unbeliever posing as a Christian here so your comments may seemingly reflect a twisted christian viewpoint...therefore, unbelievers will then criticize and belittle true Christians.

      Just so you know, God does not wish anyone go to hell, not even you my faithful unbeliever. So please repent & believe for your sake.

      February 18, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • One one

      God does not want anyone to go to hell ???

      2 Thessalonians, 8-9:"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."

      February 18, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • BoldGeorge

      So wait a minute...true Christian missionaries, Christian evangelists, preachers and even your friendly CNN commenter here giving you the gospels so you may see that there is an eternal hope for you and for anyone that believes that their own efforts won't get them into heaven, but believing that God through Christ is the only way, then get saved and live a righteous lifestyle till God calls you up...is all because God wants you to go to Hell and burn for all eternity??? Then, my friend, you have missed the point why true Christians preach repentance, redemption, salvation, and even why Christ even came to Earth to live, die and resurrect for us. I understand why you would think that God will exact vengeance on people with the verse you quoted. Don;t be deceived, God is angry with unbelievers and with the disobedience of so-called christians...He is angry, but anger is not the only thing God feels. He feels love, compassion and has been very patient with sinners. The very fact that you are still breathing is enough proof of that...that God is giving you life so far so you can come to repentance and seek Him, be saved and have eternal hope.

      2 Peter 3:9 – The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is PATIENT toward you, NOT wishing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance.

      February 18, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • BoldGeorge

      Furthermore...you are the one that has gone against God first, with unbelief, and with a sinful lifestyle, and it is to those who are unrepentant, like you, that God will bring down His wrath. You have offended Him, not the other way around. Or are you implying that you do not believe in Him or do not want to do anything with God or Christ because He is sending you to hell anyways??? Doesn't make sense, because if you were not against God, He wouldn't be against you.

      February 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • Lauri

      Ask an Ancient Scholar of CHristianity–the Ancients did practice Baptism for the Dead.
      It is charitable and very kind.
      It makes sense too.
      God is Love.

      February 18, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • nyodnya

      Christians like you helped me to become totally disassociated with religion in any form. Thank you. May your god never smite you from your ass.

      February 18, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Sandy L

      My, are we filled with hate. When a loving Jew gave you compassion to love all people. Shame on you....

      February 18, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Sweet Marmot

      You are NOT a Christian. NO true Christian hates Jews. Jesus Christ is a Jew, and if you hate Jews, you have to hate Jesus, because He's a Jew. What kind of Christian can you be then?
      BTW: Christ preached love, not hate. The Bible says the Jews are God's chosen people. If you bless them, God blesses you. If you curse them, God curses you.
      He also says that it's not His will that ANY should perish, but that ALL would come to repentance. That proves you're telling a satanic lie when you say that God wants Jews to go to hell.
      You are an unbelieving heathen, and a liar, just like all anti-Semites.
      While I don't think those Jews are right to object to Mormons baptizing them post humorously (it's not done to disrespect anyone, it's a harmless ritual, that probably has no effect, except to comfort the Mormons who do it,), I am also very disgusted by anti-Semitism. So please take your anti-Semetic crap and crawl back under your rock.

      February 19, 2012 at 3:41 am |
  8. dinabq

    Why do mormons need the name of the person? Just estimate how many people died in a given year and dead-dunk that many people. If a written record of the person does not exist, then they cannot be baptized by the mormons. Stop using the name of the decease persons and this issue would not be offensive.

    February 18, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
    • One one

      Better yet, they could just chant a magic prayer and BADDA BING !!!, everyone goes to heaven !!!

      February 18, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  9. mccgeno

    Is Hitler a mormon now?

    February 18, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
  10. BoldGeorge

    I've said it again and again, there are two types of religions in the world...only TWO. A true religion and a false religion. Let's start with the false one. All false religion is based on a [work-for-your-salvation] belief system. It's all based on self-righteousness and self-effort to make it into heaven, how good we have to be, how many rituals we have to perform and sometimes just how much better we are than others. This includes the Mormons, JW's, Catholics, Muslims, and even some in the evangelical circle I must sadly add. None of them includes Christ's actions of dying and resurrecting from the grave to solely save us...which is what true religion is, nothing more, nothing less.

    So, having written this, baptism does not save but gives evidence to being saved. It's a show of having a new life, having been "washed" from our sins and now have new and real commitment. Jesus didn't need to be saved, but got baptized nonetheless to show us the way of commitment, which is what He did right after being baptized, embark on His ministry, obviously not before being tempted by the devil himself. So, believe in Him, be saved by Him, then get baptized. These are the biblical steps of a true saved Christian. Baptism is a command from our Lord to give evidence for our salvation, nothing more, nothing less. A baby, an insane person and much less a dead person cannot "believe" in salvation (or in anything for that matter) so therefore cannot accept to be baptized. It's all crystal clear in the bible. You just have to read the whole thing, not just one itsy-bitsy verse and then form your own cult from it.

    February 18, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • JL Fuller

      George, just having an opinion doesn't make it right. You really ought to go find out a little about why the Mormons believe what they believe before you expound on it. You don't have to agree but you at least ought to know something about the subject. Use http://www.fairlds.org to quickly get their side of the story.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • AGuest9

      You're right about there being two. Then, there is "no religion".

      February 18, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  11. One one

    This no more rediculous than all the other mumbo jumbo juju that any other religion believes.

    February 18, 2012 at 7:41 am |
    • AndrewDFW

      My take exactly. At least they have good intentions. It's all jumbo jumbo as you say but there isn't anything sinister about what they are doing.

      February 18, 2012 at 8:31 am |
    • JL Fuller

      Dan Golgof, the writer, got it wrong. The baptism was NOT performed. What happened was the people's names were placed on the IGI, the international Genealogical Information database. This db is avaible to anyone who has access to the internet and is used by Mormons and non-Mormons alike.

      The Jews who raised a ruckus considered this action to be sacreligious because they mistakenly think this leaves a record of Jews as being Chrisitans. It does not. It just means they are dead people with relatives and in most cases, who thier children and parents were. It has nothing to do with religion of any variety.

      Personally, I think the Jews' lack of information and understanding promted this affair. It is grounded in their unwullingess to acknowledge they know nothing about the subject but they had made such a big stink about it WITHOUT KNOWING THE FACTS that they were too embarrassed to recant. They had made too much about it publicly so they had to say something in order to save face.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • JL Fuller

      Weisel was running off at the mouth and hollering before he was hurt. The mainstream media picked it up and ran with it because it sounded salacious and because they are lazy and irresponsible opportunists. Every genealogist in the world uses the IGI and non-Mormons contribute to it as well. It is not just about Mormons. In fact it has nothing to do with religion at all of any denomination.

      The only connection is that the LDS church keeps it on their computers and maintains it. They make it available for free to anyone and everyone. It is an indispensable tool for people doing family history research. The Mormons have been exceedingly generous and welcoming to anyone and everyone who enjoys looking into who they are and where they came from. Genealogy is the largest and most widely spread hobby in the world and the IGI and the Mormon church is at the heart of it. We should be givng thanks to them for thier work rather than condeming them. And it has nothing to do with baptism for the dead which is totally different and seperate thing.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Know What

      The LDS genealogy records are sometimes incorrect. If I were to have gone by their data I would never have been able to trace one of my lines... they have a glaring error in as recent as 20th century records.

      Check for other evidence before taking their word for it.

      February 18, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • nyodnya

      Hogwash is a good description

      February 18, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
  12. John Stefanyszyn

    "Baptism for the dead" ...an error of scriptual understand by the Mormons

    --------------------------–

    Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, introduced baptism for the dead in the 1840s. Mormons cite Paul’s letter to the Corinthians as precedent to the practice. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead not rise at all?” reads Corinthians 15:29. “Why are they then baptized for the dead?”

    This understanding and translation of this scripture and message is incorrect.

    1 Cor 15: 12 addresses the situation in the church that some followers are denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ by believing that the resurrection of the dead does not exist.

    Paul goes on to dispute their claim and afterwards affirms the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    In the next verses, 1 Cor 15;29-34, Paul addresses the premise of the futility of the act of baptism if one were to believe that the resurrection of the dead does not exist….and subsequently corrects the followers.

    If there is no resurrection , then why….?

    1 Cor.15:29,
    Επει τι ποιησουσιν οι βαπτιζομενοι υπερ των νεκρων ει ολως νεκροι ουκ εγειρονται?
    …if it were that the dead are not at all raised, then why the purpose of being baptized?

    Τι και βαπτιζονται υπερ των νεκρων?
    …why also then were those, who have died (in Christ), baptized when they were alive?
    (And not ““Why are they then baptized for the dead?”)

    Τι και ημεις κινδυνευομεν πασαν ωραν?
    …why were we (the apostles, the disciples) baptized if we are in danger every hour of the day?

    Καθ ημεραν αποθνησκω νη την ημετεραν καυχησιν ην εχω εν χριστω Ιησου τω κυριω ημων
    Paul states that he daily puts his life in danger in doing the work of Christ.

    Ει κατα ανθρωπον εθηριομαχησα εν Εφισω τι μοι το οθελος ει νεκροι ουκ εγειρονται?
    And that there would not be any gain or profit in doing so if it were a man’s work, without the resurrection of Christ, without the hope of the resurrection for the followers.

    Φαγωμεν και πιωμεν, αυριον γαρ αποθνησκομεν.
    If hypothetically that were the case, if there were no resurrection, Paul then says “We may drink and we may eat, for tomorrow we die.”

    Μη πλανασθε φθειροθσιν ηθη χρησθ ομιλιαι κακαι.
    Paul now corrects the followers by telling them not to be mislead by evil companions who corrupt the good and true way.

    Εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω.
    He goes on to say that it is to their shame to be willfully ignorant of God…that they should become sober to righteousness and not to sin.
    It is clear that the disputed subject of this scripture is not baptism of (for) the dead but the resurrection of the dead.

    The Mormons, and perhaps others who wrongly believe in the existence of a “spiritual prison”, have incorrectly interpreted the scripture and the message and have, unfortunately, mislead many away from the One Truth of the One True God through His Son , the Christ.

    February 18, 2012 at 7:35 am |
    • Kev

      "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV) The thing is it doesn't whether or not you are baptized nor does it matter who you are, Paul refers to two things. Fist, because of Adam's transgression in the Garden of Eden, all of us who come into this world come in a mortals and are subject to death. Second, that because Christ overcame the bonds of death that we all are subject to, the we, no matter who we are, will eventually be resurrected and overcome death.

      Being that this implies to all, it doesn't matter who you are, whether you were ever baptized or not, the resurrection will come to you at some point in time after death. So then why did Paul emphisize baptism, and in this case baptism for the dead. Paul was in this same chapter addressing the members of Christ's church in Corinth, who were already baptized, and yet were promoting the idea that there is no actual ressurection, if all were to be resurrected, then why is there the need for baptism. If John's point is correct that Paul's use in verse 29, did not mean baptism for the dead but that one needed baptism to overcome physical death, that doesn't make sense, because Paul just mentioned previously in this same address that all will be resurrected. Therefore, you didn't need to be baptized in order to be resurrected.

      What Paul was addressing in verse 29 wasn't that you had to be baptized in order to be resurrected, everyone will be resurrected and gain immortality. Paul's point had to deal with what kind of life one would receive after resurrection occured. It's basically the difference between merely living and having a life. Latter-Day Saints believe that there are two kinds of death; one is like what was mentioned in verse 22 which refers to physical death, where the spirit and the body are separated, but the other deals with spiritual death which means being a separation between us and God's presence.

      Even though all of us would become resurrected, not all of us will overcome the spiritual death. That is where baptism comes into play. It becomes an essential step in the process to overcome this spritual death. So when one goes through life without baptism and without knowing anything of the Gospel dies and eventually gets resurrected (phyically speaking), but cannot return to Gods presence because that person wasn't baptized in life, what becomes of that individual?

      1 Cor.15:29,
      Επει τι ποιησουσιν οι βαπτιζομενοι υπερ των νεκρων ει ολως νεκροι ουκ εγειρονται?
      …if it were that the dead are not at all raised, then why the purpose of being baptized?

      Paul was trying to state the point that the resurrection does exist and that the resurrection is an essential doctrine in Christ's Church, and to prove that point Paul cites what the members of Christ's Church in Corinth were already doing at the time, which was performing baptisms on behalf of those who have passed on. If there was no resurrection, what's the point of performing these baptisms to help those people return to the presence of God in the next life if there actually was no next life?

      February 18, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • JL Fuller

      Please. just lighten up a bit. Getting preachy doesn't make you smart. You really ought to go disocver for yourself what this about and stop listening to a bunch of low rent preachers. They don't know any more about it than you do.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  13. John W.

    As an extremely liberal and very unreligious person, I have to admit that I do not find this particularly offensive.

    Many modern evangelists claim to be sharing "Christ's external love for mankind," a love so great that he sends people to hell who have never even heard of him. You know those tribal inhabitants who have never been in contact with the modern world? Yep, they go also throught no fault of their own. Whats even worse is that these preachers not only accept, but often sound giddy when they say that those who disagree are going to hell (If you don't believe me, listen to Bob Dutko once or twice).

    This practice suggests that even if the LDS believe the same, they still care enough about their fellow mankind to try to prevent eternal damnation even if the sinner has rejected their god. They do not want to keep what they see in the afterlife to themselves in order to convey a sense of self-righteous superiority.

    While this new knowledge does not make me one ioda more likely to go to mass on Sunday, I must say the I see some beauty in it.

    February 18, 2012 at 3:29 am |
  14. Joe

    I appreciate the explainer trying to tell the truth about Mormons.

    It is sad that one persons actions could cause so much trouble. The way the computer programs are set up he could not have done what he did without knowing it was against Church policy.
    The fact that the LDS Church lets Helen Radkey have access to their records, knowing that she is "out to get the Mormons" shows that the Church also wants to put a stop to these actions that others feel are offensive.

    The fact that Helen Radkey only agreed to give the information to Rabbi Cooper "...as long as there is a public stink" shows that she probably doesn't care about Jewish feelings or much of anything but her longstanding mission of hurting Mormons.

    It is also sad that activists are trying to use this for political gain.

    Rites for the deceased are ancient, and many people still practice them. When done in accordance with Church teachings (for ancestors of LDS) they are acts of love, and God knows our world needs more of those.

    February 18, 2012 at 2:54 am |
  15. ron

    So the Hateful Christian Bigots afraid of a MORMON who may become President...

    The Anybody but Romney -Mormon Hating Bigots many of whom are Evangelicals who claim to be so PIOUS and Righteous....they are the ones who put forth stories like this one to discredit Mitt Romney. They would rather have a Serial Adulterer....Barabas.... in South Carolina than a man who is faithful to his wife of 42 years. They hold a SECRET meeting of Evangelical Leaders in Texas with ONE PURPOSE....TO DERAIL THE MORMON. This Anti-Mormon Bigotry is Pathetic. It is UN-American. It is hateful and very Anti-Christian.

    Get over your Bigotry America.Mitt Romney according to Jack Welch former CEO of General Electric "Is the Most Qualified Person In MY LIFETIME to Run for President". Jack Welch is NOT Mormon.

    We are $16 Trillion in debt. That is 16 THOUSAND BILLION!

    We need Mitt Romney to help turn our Economy around and deal with our Debt!

    Stop being a Bigot and Be and AMERICAN.

    February 18, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • AGuest9

      Turn the country over to another republican who can undo the previous republican's fiscal mess? Fool me once.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • AGuest9

      Actually, fool me never. I didn't vote for the dunce the first OR the second time.

      February 18, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Lauri

      Thank you.
      I have been saying this for months! Why dont people talk about this? He is not up in the polls because he is MOrmon. That is easy to see.
      His character is strong; his record is proven; yes he has made some changed in his opinions–but not in his choice of marriage partners etc.

      People do not understand the LDS church and what people dont understand–they usually fear.

      It is so ironic to me that the Evangelicals accept in full fellowship the Catholics who totally disagree with them on many matters including their own salvation. The Protestants and the Catholcs have fought wars over religion. Today they shake hands as friends. But no hand shaking with the scary Mormons.
      There are many similiarities between the Catholics and the Mormons–and many with the Mormons and the Evangelicals too. But it is morally and socially acceptable to bash MOrmons by the liberals and by the "religious"-so funny to me.

      It might take a generation of great LDS bloggers and some better marketing -PR-by the Mormons to become welcome to the "table".
      Thanks for speaking out.

      February 18, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • Chitral Cheetah

      We need Romney to fix the US economy just like Berlusconi the businessman fixed the Italian economy. What a thought.! Look where Italy is now with a begging bowl. Where were you when Bush was racking up the debt with his tax breaks and going to war based on lies and killing thousands of US soldiers and maiming others.

      February 19, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
  16. ron

    So the Hateful Christian Bigots afraid of a MORMON who may become President...

    The Anybody but Romney -Mormon Hating Bigots many of whom are Evangelicals who claim to be so PIOUS and Righteous....they are the ones who put forth stories like this one to discredit Mitt Romney. They would rather have a Serial Adulterer....Barabas.... in South Carolina than a man who is faithful to his wife of 42 years. They hold a SECRET meeting of Evangelical Leaders in Texas with ONE PURPOSE....TO DERAIL THE MORMON. This Anti-Mormon Bigotry is Pathetic. It is UN-American. It is hateful and very Anti-Christian.

    As far as Mormon's doing Baptisms "on behalf of the dead"....GIVE ME A BREAK.All they are doing is saying a prayer for the Dead person in their name. One Mormon baptizes another Mormon and says a prayer mentioning the dead person's name....WHOOPEEMy Catholic friends say prayers for me all the time because they are AFRAID I am going to Hell. I am not offended by that.

    Get over your Bigotry America.Mitt Romney according to Jack Welch former CEO of General Electric "Is the Most Qualified Person In MY LIFETIME to Run for President". Jack Welch is NOT Mormon.We are $16 Trillion in debt. That is 16 THOUSAND BILLION!We need Mitt Romney to help turn our Economy around and deal with our Debt!Stop being a Bigot and Be and AMERICAN.

    February 18, 2012 at 1:26 am |
  17. Tare

    Think about the absurdity of this argument – in order to grant dead people anything like eternal life they would ALREADY HAVE TO HAVE IT!!! Otherwise they would be "really dead", and couldn't receive baptism!!! So what does that say about Mormons – I'll leave the obvious conclusion to you!

    February 18, 2012 at 1:09 am |
    • buddyboy

      There is an obvious flaw in your argument as it pertains to mormon theology. I'll leave it up to you to figure out what it is. But as a former mormon i'll tell you that your argument would not be considered well versed.

      February 18, 2012 at 1:21 am |
  18. King Krampus of Kolob

    I say yea, I have a dingleberry around Uranus today!

    February 18, 2012 at 12:53 am |
  19. Reality

    Since there never were an Adam and Eve, Garden of Paradise or talking serpent, there never was any original sin i.e. baptism is a silly supersti-tion that even the Catholic church is slowly coming to grips with.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    February 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • xcubfan

      Then why was Jesus baptized?

      February 18, 2012 at 12:24 am |
    • AGuest9

      Because his "cousin" John lived out in the desert and ate locusts, was a bit weird and liked dunking people in the river.

      February 18, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Reality

      Christian economics 101:

      The Baptizer drew crowds and charged for the "dunking". The historical Jesus saw a good thing and continued dunking and preaching the good word but added "healing" as an added charge to include free room and board. Sure was better than being a poor peasant but he got a bit too zealous and they nailed him to a tree.

      Paul picked up the money scent on the road to Damascus. He added some letters for a fee and "Gentilized" the good word to the "big buck" world. i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!!

      Along comes Constantine. He saw the growing rich Christian community and recognized a new tax base so he set them "free".

      The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches (including the Mormon Church) and related aristocracies.

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      In conclusion, money is a major foundation of Christianity to include Mormonism. Ditto for Islam.

      The martyred apostles ran afoul of Roman political and religious authorities because they preached, healed, and baptized for the conversion (and profit) to a non-Roman way of life. This support of an anti-Roman cult resulted in the typical murder/crucifixion of the cult leaders. The apostles' conversions also caused a dramatic drop in Roman/Jewish temple appearances and contributions and just like Jesus' Jewish temple outburst, it resulted in added punishment to include crucifixion.

      February 19, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • No

      It appears you are trying to deceive people. Why? Are you trying to change what is historical into your own personal view? The way in which you are presenting is questionable. You can't really be operating from a position of deceit.

      It was not ever about financial gain. People suffered and sacrificed more than you and I will ever have to. Do you want to walk in their shoes? Are you willing to put forth the effort to dig a littler deeper than you are?

      February 19, 2012 at 1:16 am |
    • Reality

      o Hmmm, the story aka legend has JB eating locusts topped with wild honey, a real delicacy no doubt in the first century CE.

      Another variation: "his food consisted of raw honey that tasted like manna, like a pancake cooked with oil."

      The "skinny" of said legend:

      "The idea of eating locusts or grasshoppers is repulsive to many, but keep in mind that most think nothing of eating a cow or a chicken’s flesh. It’s really a matter of mind-set. In ancient Greece and Rome, fried locusts, cicadas, and grasshoppers were considered a delicacy superior to the best meat or fish. These insects have enormous nutritional value.

      Grasshoppers, for example, are 60% protein versus chicken or beef with about 20%. According to author Christopher Nyerges, “When hordes of locusts destroy acres of crops, farmers should be counting their blessings and rapidly collecting locusts. After all, the locusts are a much higher protein source than the grains they’re devouring.”

      John the Baptist ate locusts just as many Asians also did then and still do today. Locusts are prepared by many by being slightly roasted, dried in the sun, and then salted. When eaten, the wings, legs, and head are removed; when the head is removed, the intestines come out with it. The part left is the fleshy portion. Locusts are a good source of protein, vitamins and minerals. Brother John ate locusts and the gold standard of food – wild honey."

      – answers.com

      And it sure beats those tasteless, flesh and blood communion wafers still served every Sunday!!!

      February 19, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
  20. ron

    So the Hateful Christian Bigots afraid of a MORMON who may become President...(Heaven forbid.)....actually give a standing ovation to a Serial Adulterer-Newt Gingrich in the South Carolina Debate for blaming John King for asking a question about one of Newt's former Mistress/wives claiming he asked for an "open marraige" which he was at the time actually engaged in by CHEATING on his wife although it may not have been OPEN to her yet...The Anybody but Romney -Mormon Hating Bigots many of whom are Evangelicals who claim to be so PIOUS and Righteous....they are the ones who put forth stories like this one to discredit Mitt Romney. They would rather have a Serial Adulterer....Barabas.... in South Carolina than a man who is faithful to his wife of 42 years. They hold a SECRET meeting of Evangelical Leaders in Texas with ONE PURPOSE....TO DERAIL THE MORMON. This Anti-Mormon Bigotry is Pathetic. It is UN-American. It is hateful and very Anti-Christian.

    As far as Mormon's doing Baptisms "on behalf of the dead"....GIVE ME A BREAK.
    All they are doing is saying a prayer for the Dead person in their name. One Mormon baptizes another Mormon and says a prayer mentioning the dead person's name....WHOOPEE

    My Catholic friends say prayers for me all the time because they are AFRAID I am going to Hell. I am not offended by that.

    Get over your Bigotry America.
    Mitt Romney according to Jack Welch former CEO of General Electric "Is the Most Qualified Person In MY LIFETIME to Run for President".
    Jack Welch is NOT Mormon.

    We are $16 Trillion in debt. That is 16 THOUSAND BILLION!
    We need Mitt Romney to help turn our Economy around and deal with our Debt!

    Stop being a Bigot and Be and AMERICAN.
    Reply

    February 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • Reality

      How much money would the following save the US taxpayers ?:

      Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
      There never were and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam and therefore no more koranic-driven acts of horror and terror

      – One trillion dollars over the next several years as the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan will end.

      – Eighteen billion dollars/yr to Pakistan will stop.

      – Four billion dollars/yr to Egypt will end.

      Saving 2 billion lost Christians including the Mormons:
      There were never any bodily resurrections and there will never be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity!!!

      – The Mormon empire will now become taxable as will all Christian "religions" and evangelical non-profits since there is no longer any claim to being a tax-exempt religion.

      – Saving 15.5 million Orthodox followers of Judaism:
      Abraham and Moses never existed.

      – Four billion dollars/yr to Israel saved.

      – All Jewish sects and non-profits will no longer be tax exempt.

      Now all we need to do is convince these 3.5+ billion global and local citizens that they have been conned all these centuries Time for a YouTube,Twitter and FaceBook campaign!!!!

      February 18, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • pastmorm

      Yowsa ron! You just kinda proved why most people think mormons suck. You blow up at people with abusive, bullying language and you think we're going to fall for your silly commercials, mormon.org or romney as president? LOL! Man, thanks for being the typically rotten mormon that you are!!!

      February 18, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.