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 A picture of Anne Frank, perhaps the most famous victim of the Holocaust.
February 22nd, 2012
05:11 PM ET
After Anne Frank baptism, Mormons vow to discipline membersBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Reacting to a report that well-known Holocaust victim Anne Frank had been baptized by proxy in a Mormon temple, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it is committed to disciplining members of its church who conducted such baptisms, which violate church policy. Word of the Frank baptism came a week after the issue of Mormon posthumous proxy baptism of Jews attracted national attention. This controversy surfaced after it was reported that the dead parents of Jewish Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal had been baptized in a Mormon temple. The church apologized for that baptism, blaming it on a technical glitch in its system for submitting names for posthumous proxy baptism. “It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism. Explainer: How and why do Mormons baptize the dead? Though the church regularly conducts proxy baptisms for dead, in what it calls an attempt to give everyone a chance to accept salvation through Jesus, it has a 1990s-era policy against conducting such baptisms for Holocaust victims. The policy was adopted after complaints from Jewish groups, which said it was offensive to conduct Mormon baptisms for Holocaust victims who were killed because of their Jewish faith. “The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” said Purdy in his Tuesday statement. The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.” According to Helen Radkey, a former Mormon who tracks Mormon posthumous proxy baptisms, the one for Anne Frank was conducted on Saturday in the Dominican Republic. soundoff (1,379 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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This disgusts me and it will be a cold day in Central Africa before I use the LDS genealogy site again. This is a slap in the face to every Holocaust survivor Jew & gentile alike and a mockery of those who can not defend themselves the 12 million victims of Hitler .
Disiciplimnig members not enough a total repudiation of this doctrine needs to happen.
I am starting a movement to un-baptize Mormons by proxy. Mitt Romney is on his way to hell now since I un-baptized him. The Osmonds are next. Anyone want to help?
I'm with you brother Jess!
Bill Maher already unbaptized Mitt's father in law. Let the unbaptism begin!
So I am waiting to see what the problem is here...oh wait...it is a lib media article...enough said.
This is just plain wrong, This girl was jewish, and being dead she didn't even have a choice on whether to be baptised in the mormon faith, how do they think they have to right to baptise anyone of a different faith who is not only dead but for many, many, years. Who is to say that she is not in heaven with the heavenly father right now, and has clearly made it there without this baptism. ummmmm..... Then she was baptised in a different country in which she lived or died in, a country is which she never even seen. I am not jewish but totaly agree with the Jewish groups in saying that this is very offensive to the Jewish religion. Who gives Mormons the right???? This is just wrong!!! But it has opened my eyes, and I do know that I am very happy w/my religion, and will never convert over to the mormon faith... ummmm!!!
DIARY OF ANNE FRANK – POSTHUMUS ADDENDUM
Saturday, 18 February – Today as I was on my way to prayer meeting something curious happened. I suddenly passed gas! I'm perplexed because I haven't eaten anything in decades. Must try to figure this out...
I'm glad that the Mormon church officials have recognized that imposing their beliefs and practices on members of other religions (alive or dead) is offensive and intrusive. I don't mind when someone tries to convert me, because I can just say no. I would mind if someone "converted" me without my knowledge or against my wishes.
Our Founding Fathers, who were all Christian and many of whom were deeply religious, made a very wise choice when they seperated Church (religion) and state. It helps ensure that no matter what religion is the majority, everyone will be able to worship as they choose. This includes minority faiths like Judaism and Mormonism. It also has enabled the US to become a world power by welcoming people for what they can accomplish, not what they believe (or what their ancestors believed).
Actually, the Mormons still DO baptize people of other faiths...just, by fairly recent policy, not Holocaust victims. If you're Jewish or Muslim or Atheist or Christian or whatever you happen to be, you're fair game so long you're not identified as having died in the Holocaust.
Your post was almost correct. However: "Our Founding Fathers, who were all Christian" Nope, they were not. May want to try reading some actual history.
George Washington's family was Episcopalian but he rejected the church and considered himself a Deist(the closest modern thing is an agnostic, although that still isn't quite the same).
Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Paine, and Alexander Hamilton were also Deists, and Thomas Jefferson was heavily influenced by it.
Can a group of people be stupider then those who blindly believe in a religion that was made up? I have lost ALL respect for the mormons. They deserve all the cr ap slung at them. I cant even show them the respect that I show for all religions. John Smith sold you a book of Manure.
"then those who blindly believe in a religion that was made up?"
I agree. Then again, all religions are made up, so why would you belong to any of them?
Uh....Heywood Jablome maybe you should know what you are talking about before you post something. His name was not John, it was Joseph. Just sayin...And we do not just go around picking names off of grave stones and baptise them. Family members of these people bring in their names. Just because some of you have one impression of a group of people does not mean that all people in that group are that way. Why did everyone get upset when the Muslim religion was attacked about 9/11, or Germans are criticized about Hitler's actions, or all white men enslaved the blacks and indians, and the list goes on. But yet we are not supposed to be hurt when you hear one story, and decide all "Mormons" are that way?
We are all in this country because of one thing, freedom. Freedom to choose how we live our lives. You are free to trash talk the Mormons and what you do not know and understand, just as we are free to live our religion and share it with others because we are so happy in it. And no, it is not because we are brainwashed. It is because the vast majority of us are so happy with the lifestyle of living like Juseus Christ that we want to share what we know(and yes, we are Christians contrary to what most people believe. Our actual church name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latyter Day Saints.).
I know there are people of every single religion out there that do not abide by the full principles and teachings of the religion, but you do not see those religions being torn down because of it. We let you live your lives, and if you ask us not to preach our religion to you, we will respect your wishes. so please just let us live ours without judging an entire worldwide religion based on your personal opinion and your personal interactions with just a small number of our members in comparisson with how many of us there actually are.
If you actually want to know the truth about something you hear, the best way to do that is to go right to the source. As with any group in the world an ex member has a taainted opinion of the group they either left, or were made to leave. We are open about our religion and happy to answer questions. Just dont fire and attack because you think you know what is going on.
Why all the hate here, folks? The Mormon Church officially states from Salt Lake that this was indeed a serious problem. They then state they will seek down whoever engaged in this proxy baptism and discipline them. And you are all ticked-off about it?
Like the Catholic church, the Mormon Church can and does disfellowship and excommunicate members who fail to follow the rules. They acknowledge that it would have taken blatant and intentional deceit on the part of the members involved in order to baptize Anne Frank by proxy in one of their temples. Clearly this was a situation where either (2) two Mormons in the Dominican Republic (i.e., far from Salt Lake) went intentionally AWOL or (2) two card carrying ex-Mormons decided to get the Church in trouble by intentionally acting against the rules set by Salt Lake.
In either case, one can hardly blame the Mormon church and its leadership who seem more than understanding and willing to seek disciplinary action against the individuals who comitted this act.
"one can hardly blame the Mormon church" Oh good, then of course you don't blame all Muslims for 9-11. Obviously the work of a few radicals, right?
The problem is with the practice itself. For instance, my own ancestors have been posthumously baptised by the mormons despite having been devoutly religious during their lives.
The very presumption behind the act is offensive.
As some one who serves in the genealogy library system of the LDS church we are instructed to help LDS patrons prepare names of their families ONLY for Temple Ordinances in addition we are there to help non-LDS patrons do family history work.
The rules are clear. For instance my Grandfather recently passed away with out benefit of baptism. From my religious perspective this is a sad thing and I have an obligation to my ancestors to provide him the opportunity for redemption through Christ. However I must have the PERMISSION of his most direct descendants first–my father and his 2 brothers. Should any of them object–and they will. I have NO RIGHT to arrange for those ordinances in 1 year after his death.
Any Latter-day Saint who violates this policy is subject to diciplinary actions. It causes too many hurt feelings. For members of the church Family is the most important focus after Christ and His atonement. Bad apples do exist but there are literally thousands of Family History Consultants around the world teaching the proper guidelines for conducting these ordinances.
Please do not judge all members by the impertinant actions of a very few.
Please understand that this work is done with love and good intentions–not necessarily seen by the outside world.
Also please understand that from our religious perspective what these ordinances offer is the choice to accept Christ and that we believe that not all who are given the opportunity will do so. Think of it as a spiritual knock on the door by missionaries–some times it is well recieved often it is rejected–but the service is provided out of love and faith.
If this work was performed for Anne Franck–and not by her closest living relative. The Church will remove the record from the database and diciplin those who violated our rules. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is very concerned about the sensitivities of others with regard to our beliefs. The Church is very careful to obey all laws and requires all members to do the same. It deeply pains the majority of members when one of our own give others cause to call into question the integrity or lawful conduct of the Church or its membership.
If you have any questions please look up your local Family History Center on LDS.ORG–With in the Library we cannot proselytize. No one will try to convert you, but it would be our joy to serve you by answering questions about genealogy/family history and the policies for Temple Ordinances. And no if you want to work on your family history we keep no records of the work that we help you do AT ALL.
Thank you for that info – you should have written the article! I've known only 2 Mormons and neither tried to convert me. They were cool people.
Do you not understand how ridiculous what you just said sounds? Let me break it down. You want to give people who have already died a chance to accept Christ as Savior and you do that though proxy baptism but, only if, it is not an offense to someone else and your church has to approve it. So, in other words, what your church wants and what others want take precendence over what Jesus wants – that person to be saved, that is if the whole idea of proxy baptism carried any weight at all. Which it doesn't. You need to wake up and get out of that cult.
As a Jew, I hold the apparently rare position that the Mormons should be able to baptize as many of my dead ancestors as they want. If the Mormon's theology is right, their souls will be "saved,." That would be a good thing. If, as I believe, the Mormons are wrong, how exactly does it hurt a dead Jew to have his name entered in some database? It only hurts wrong-thinking people who are offended for no reason. In fact, I hereby give the Mormons permission to baptize me after I die, or even while I'm still alive, if they can do it without bothering me.
I don't know if the Mormon policy of NOT baptizing dead folks without permission is because of their fear of bad PR or because they are really sensitive to the feelings of survivors. If the former, they don't seem to have the courage of their convictions. If the latter, I comment them for their sensitivity, but still don't see how they can so easily set aside trying to save someone's soul.
@Frank – Well put! I think you hit it on the head – it's bad PR. That's the reason why they used to do this secretly, but people found out.
G, your post prompts a couple of questions: What happens after the 1 year requirement you mentioned. Does the statute of limitations lapse and allow people to be baptized, despite the wishes of their nearest and dearest? (You see Anne died in 1945 and none of her family, save her dad, survived the Nazis). Second, if the baptism-after-death is a "spiritual knocking" (much as your missionaries do in this existence) how can you record what the dead person's choice was? Do you assume the response? Why are you obliged to offer redemption after death to people who had the same choice (and rejected it) during their lifetime? And what are the disciplines offered for disrespecting the beliefs of someone whose faith formed the basis of your own?
I have no doubt, as you say, your faith offers this service with good intentions but please remember what road is paved with good intentions. The souls they need to work on saving just might be their own.
Mr. Berger I appreciate your voice. As for bad PR we have had that for the whole existence of our faith including laws in some states which allowed for the murder of "Mormons" on sight. (Missouri–the law was repealed in the 1970s).
Our greatest concern with regard to the feelings of relatives is that the offense may generate a hardened heart toward something we find precious.
As you can see through the vitriol spewed in many of the comments there is not a lot of religious tolerance or willingness to communicate ideas in a civil manner. We strive as members to avoid contributing to the hate.
I get how the "outside looking in" view makes we LDS look odd. My dad is a scientist. It makes him crazy that I find peace in my beliefs. The important point is that we are good people trying very hard to serve all humanity. Look at our efforts in Katrina, and the 2004 Tsunami for instance–or the Hinckley Foundation for international development.
We have a deep and abiding respect for all humanity. Meet a few of us. We do not have horns, practice polygamy (anymore) or ridicule your beliefs. If your God is the Great Spaghetti Monster enjoy.
TO More&Less:
Members of the LDS Church must wait 1 year after the death of a non-member loved one before they are allowed to submit their names for Temple Ordinances. The statute of limitations as you referred to it is 99 years after the death of a family member if you are not the closest direct living decendant.
Yes some members have breeched that–My great aunt did the work for my Grandmother, her sister–without the permission of her Husband and 3 sons. NOT ok–and when he found out and complained–she was diciplined and unable to attend the Temple for 1 year.
We do take this very seriously. Please understand this is not a "forced thing–according to our belief it gived the individual 1 last chance to accept the Gospel of Christ before Judgement day. It is our belief that many will choose not to do so but we are obligated by faith to give every soul in our family that opportunity.
So glad to hear you take your insane death baptisms seriously. It helps the rest of the sane world categorize you along with voodoo worshipers who also take their zombie rituals very seriously, or practltioners of female genital mutilation who believe it to be "an essential part of raising a girl properly—girls are regarded as having been cleansed by the removal of "male" body parts. It ensures pre-marital v irginity and inhibits extra-marital s e x, because it reduces women's libido. Women fear the pain of re-opening the v a gina, and are afraid of being discovered if it is opened illicitly" – World Health Organization
All taken very seriously, so you know you are in good company.
Anne Frank had big nose for sure
But, unlike you she could think
She will always be remembered; you will aways be forgotten.
More polish were killed by hitler's order because they were polish than jews because they were jewish, so... Jennifer has a point. Maybe it is a bit harsh to make it illegal, but the point is we (non jewish) are tired of all the "holocaust" rhetoric, when so many were killed by this man’s orders. Why do we "celebrate" just the jews issues.
cheers
dav
Because Jews control the media and have power
Don't be surprised if people will call you for 'Anti-Semitic'
Or a complete idiot
LOL I don't read faith articles just read the comments while eating chips and drink soda 🙂 Better than TV
I agree. It's like watching Jerry Springer while on acid.
I understand why Jewish people are offended by this initially, but I see it like this: if you aren't a believer at all, this doesn't matter to you one way or the other. If you ARE a believer, I've not heard of one other faith that believes you can be a) baptized against your will, b) baptized after you are dead, c) converted to another faith without being involved. So I can understand that the Jews feel like the Mormons are sticking their noses into the Jews' business, but does it really matter? I certainly don't profess to be an expert on Judaism, but is there any part of their belief system that says the Mormons' actions would have any effect at all on Anne Frank? If not, they shouldn't really care, other than to tell the Mormons to knock it off. I mean, if the RNC called and said they had declared me a life member, a radical neo-con and leader of all things Republican, I wouldn't care. Their beliefs and statements have no effect on reality. I'd still be a gun-totin', liberal democrat (yes, they exist, and in far larger numbers than you'd guess).
It's too bad everyone, especially the world's religious leaders, can't see the situation as clearly as you – the world would be a better place for all of us.
That's a good question, and it's more along the lines of being offended that someone is being presumptuous and rude than a belief that there's any tangible effect.
With regard to baptizing Holocaust victims, there's a double whammy in that these people were targeted and died specifically because of their religion.
If a Mormon baptized my dead grandmother without my or my parents' consent, I would still know that she's Jewish, but I'd still be insulted that the person did it without permission.
Yes, it matters. It's called respect. If gun-toting liberal democrats had been targeted for extermination more than once over the course of thousands of years, because of their beliefs, you might be able to relate a little more. It's the lack of respect (and "who cares" mentality) that opens the door for larger acts of intolerance. Remember? They taught that in Liberal 101.
Maybe they will keep doing this sort of thing and further ensure Romney doesn't win. He's an idiot and his "religion" is a freak show.
do you have a religion you follow?
"do you have a religion you follow?" I am a Parenthetical Interpolator. Want me to send you some literature?
Okay, okay, okay. I won't vote for Mitt. I want to see Obama on The Voice before I vote.
Would it be TOO much to ask that all religions mind their own business.
If I want to be saved, I'll contact you, don't you contact me. And this means stop trying to leglisliate how I live my life just because YOU would do things differently.
FREEDOM FROM RELIGION, our Number 1 Right as Americans.
That would be Freedom OF Religion, not from.
While I agree no one should SHOVE religion in your face. I firmly disagree that we should oppresses religion. What you are speaking of is the same teaching the Nazi's taught in WWII. If you are on the street or someone rings the bell to your home. You can tell them you aren't interested and move on with your life. But creating new laws oppressing others is not the answer. You sir are an enemy to America and it's way of life.
Yes please!
Freedom FROM religions, whether we are alive or dead.
Do not "baptize" anybody, without their expressed, written permission.
Especially people who died persecuted BECAUSE of their religion.
Why do you even need to be told that??
No Ruth, I'm pretty sure he meant freedom FROM religion – and I agree.
If churches had to pay taxes. they would all close. What's the point of church if you can't get rich from it?
What the cr*p does Anne Frank have to do with American history?!
"Mahmud" Like you know anything about American history anyway?
America is a Christian country and those who deny it should be exported to which @sshole they came from!
I am sick and tired of this whining
Wow.
"America is a Christian country"
Nope. Many of the Founder Fathers were not Christian at all. They were students of the enlightenment, and did not follow organized religion at all. Try again stupid.
As a Christian, I am ashamed at your representation of Jesus. Please don't troll and tout Christianity at the same time.
Brilliant...
Instinct tells me this post was made by a Troll.
No, it isn't. American is NOT a Christian country. We are not an anything country. We are not Iran, we are not Afghanistan – we are not a theocracy.
America is not a Christian country. We are a secular country based on Christian principles. Non-Christians have as much right to stay in America as self-identified "Christians." Perhaps obnoxious self-identified "Christians" who exploit Christ's teachings should return from whence they came!
Incorrect
Crazy is speaking everyone quiet. This country has something called separation of church and state. Meaning the US has no official religion. In fact it is the religious freedom that brought most of us here in the first place. That goes all the way back to the pilgrims fleeing for their religious freedom.
No religious group should put other religion's members through a ritual not wanted.
America is NOT a Christian country. It is a country founded on the pricipal of Freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion.
The US is not a Christian country. I am an American citizen, born of American citizens, descended from both Native Americans and the invading white folk who brought Christianity to these shores.
I am not Christian.
Exactly where is it you think I should move to?
Though I agree with you that America is a Christian Nation.......and I, too, do not like whining; the irony in this is that YOU are the one whining. Please stop.
Lucia, I can tell you're a dedicated christian and a devout patriot. LOL @sshole : )
Just because there are non-Christian citizens of this country, and the founding fathers were Deists, does not mean we're not fundamentally a Judeo-Christian-based society. Welcome to the 18th century, people.
Interesting that the pilgrims came to America to practice religious freedom and then promptly denied it to everyone else.
Step right up and try to tell me how to live. I'll give you what we gave the VietCong. Start picking out where you want your new orifice.
How many people here think Lucia should go back to Italy on the first Tramp steamer?
like this crap even matters.
Gaunt: TEACH ALL HOLOCAUSTS NOT ONLY THE JEWISH ONE!
If I was president I would sign a bill to make it illegal to mention the Jewish holocaust in public places. I mean it!
I have no doubt you mean it. Your sincerety was not the issue here you repugnant racist hatemongering bigot.
Luckily there is zero chance that will ever happen. You make Rick Perry look like a Rhodes scholar, and the American people wouldn't even elect someone as dumb as he was so you have no chance at all.
Perhaps you could vome to my classroom. Not only do I teach about the Holocaust of the Jews, but I also teach about many different holocausts in history as well as about modern day slavery. Just because you dont hear about it does not mean it is not happening.
If I was president, I'd introduce a bill to have anyone offering to name a child "Jennifer" beaten and sodomized with a pole.