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 A picture of Anne Frank, perhaps the most famous victim of the Holocaust.
February 22nd, 2012
05:11 PM ET
After Anne Frank baptism, Mormons vow to discipline membersBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Reacting to a report that well-known Holocaust victim Anne Frank had been baptized by proxy in a Mormon temple, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it is committed to disciplining members of its church who conducted such baptisms, which violate church policy. Word of the Frank baptism came a week after the issue of Mormon posthumous proxy baptism of Jews attracted national attention. This controversy surfaced after it was reported that the dead parents of Jewish Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal had been baptized in a Mormon temple. The church apologized for that baptism, blaming it on a technical glitch in its system for submitting names for posthumous proxy baptism. “It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism. Explainer: How and why do Mormons baptize the dead? Though the church regularly conducts proxy baptisms for dead, in what it calls an attempt to give everyone a chance to accept salvation through Jesus, it has a 1990s-era policy against conducting such baptisms for Holocaust victims. The policy was adopted after complaints from Jewish groups, which said it was offensive to conduct Mormon baptisms for Holocaust victims who were killed because of their Jewish faith. “The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” said Purdy in his Tuesday statement. The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.” According to Helen Radkey, a former Mormon who tracks Mormon posthumous proxy baptisms, the one for Anne Frank was conducted on Saturday in the Dominican Republic. soundoff (1,379 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Next »
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Just more anti-semitism by the Mormon church. They do this to Jews everywhere and anyone else they can get hold of. To do this to anyone is disgusting, but to do this to victims of the Holocaust is worse. They are simply victimizing them a second time. And by the way, if they are doing this in the name of Jesus, they should remember that HE was also Jewish.
I imagine Mormons who leave their faith look back on it several years after the cult lost the mental hold on them and say to themselves "What the f–k was I thinking all of those years? How did I buy into all this garbage?"
This is sham journalism at its finest. Some crazy ex-mormon cat lady says it is true, therefore it must be?
Shame on you CNN. This is pure propoganda meant to politicize people's fear of an already misunderstood faith - (not to mention any GOP presidential front-runner who is a member of that faith *wink* *wink*).
Pay attention. The Mormon church admitted that it happened but they disapprove. I guess Mormons don't teach reading comprehension to their members. Otherwise, how could they get you to buy their garbage?
"“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” the church said in a statement Tuesday
You are showing your Obvious lack of reading comprehension skills by the way, which means anything you say after "Im a moron and I didn't read the article but the headline made me mad" can be tossed in the waste bin.
Show me where the LDS church admitted it happend? Go ahead and read the article again, bud. They apologized for the baptism, but I see nowhere that they confirmed it actually happened. Rather, the confirmation the author relied on came from a clearly biased source outside the Mormon church.
Honestly, hate a little more their bud.
GodPot,
Far from any confirming statement there.
Use your logic for a second. I know you have a brain. Well at least I think you do.
Why would they apologize for something if it didn't happen? Go ahead... I'll give you all the time you need to answer.
Here is the statement at issue in the article:
“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place.”
This is hardly an admission or confirmation. I am sorry, but it is clear that the LDS church official to whom the question was addressed had serious doubts as to whether this actually occurred. If you could read, you would be able to see that the cofirmation does not come from any source until the end of the article (i.e., from a VERY biased, outside, and unreliable source).
This is called sham journalism. It starts with an unconfired premise and assumes that premise is true, misleading the reader until the very end of the article where it gives an unreliable source. The author of this article knew what they were doing and knew that his or her source, quite frankly, sucked, but wanted to publish the article anyway for obvious, political reasons.
Honestly, learn reading comprehension there a little more. The author knew his or her sources sucked and, therefore, had to hide some non-cofirming, non-official statement at the end to make it sound authentic. What a joke.
This is where reading comprehension, reading between the lines and looking at the bigger picture really come into play.
If it were not true, they would deny it up and down. Religions are very quick to defend themselves to false claims. I see nowhere in the article that they say that they don't believe it occurred. Actually it seems to me they do believe it occurred. How do you explain this:
The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”
Why would they take action if nothing happened?
If the statement at the end was something the LDS did not say, then wouldn't the LDS come out and release a statement and go after CNN for being dishonest? Use that thing between your ears. I've seen nothing online from the LDS denying any claims made.
Joe,
Can you read, or do you just pretend to?
The statement made at the end of the article - i.e., the only source of confirmation in the entire article - was stated by a "former Mormon" known for her biased activism against the LDS faith.
As far as the statements of the LDS church spokesman (who was clearly such a low-level administrator that he does not even warrant a name in the article), let's look what he said:
“The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism."
"The Church is committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges.” “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”
Sorry, Joe, but this is just the policy of the Church; there is no confirmation or denial here of the allegations either.
On that note, are you the Church's attorneys? How they he.ll do you know that the Church already does not have attorneys looking into "going after CNN" as we speak?
I'll state again, sham journalism at its finest to anyone with half a brain.
" the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it is committed to disciplining members of its church who conducted such baptisms, which violate church policy."
"The church apologized for that baptism, blaming it on a technical glitch in its system for submitting names for posthumous proxy baptism."
"improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” the church said in a statement Tuesday"
"“The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” the church’s Tuesday statement said."
"The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”
If I post anymore of what "The Church Said" I would have to quote the entire article. The bogus "source" you refer to isn't mentioned until the very last paragraph and only confirms the where and when it happened.
Something big like that, the LDS going after a major news source, with all of the reports being done about Mormons, wouldn't be making headlines on other news stations?
Just because an ex-member reported a story about the church, makes it not true? The church has a vested interest in making sure that it upholds a good name. Why wouldn't they come out and say "This is the report of an ex-member and so far we have no reason to believe it is true. We are currently investigating the matter and will discipline any members who may have performed these baptisms." Usually when someone is innocent of an accusation, they deny it.
Two things are obvious: you want Romney elected and no mention of his whacky religion or the dog on his roof. Also, you can't spell "CAPTAIN." Meanwhile, on Planet Kolob, the Mormons were eating their dates.
Where is the form i can fill out to insist they not perform a proxy baptism on me or any of the deceased memebers of my family??? Jews are not the only ones who should be exempt from this abomination!
But by Christian logic wouldn't it be better to take the chance they are right since it's doesn't take any effort on your part and just might save your soul? Of course that would also mean daily performing a bunch of other religions rituals as well because you just can't take any chances... right? So the choices are be an atheist with NO hope of an afterlife or pay a few tlthes, visit some shrines, bow to these God's over here and pray to those God's over there, be baptized as a child, get baptized again as an adult, baptize a few family members after they die, drink this wine, eat that bread, count off a few rosarys, a couple of our fathers, rinse and repeat the rest of your life, and Bam! You might just have saved your ever-living soul, that is, if it turns out you have one, but then, who would take the chance that we don't?... I mean, it just makes so much, um, um, what is that word that means the opposite of "sense"...
According to the book of Exodus, the Jews went through alot of trouble to escape the pharoahs. They have had to endure alot of hardships throughout history perpetrated on them by dishonest sects who lie in the name of God. Mormons have a very bad reputation about being dishonest. I'm not surprised that their still up to their dirty tricks. It's my way or the highway with them. They can be very scary. They are the kind of religion that would crucify Jesus all over again if they had the chance because he was a Jew.
Terri - your bigotry is showing
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
I never heard anyone expand on antisemitism among Mormons. Must be interesting. Maybe someone will come alone who knows something about it.
"According to the book of Exodus, the Jews went through alot of trouble to escape the pharoahs. They have had to endure alot of hardships throughout history perpetrated on them"
So what about the hardships of the people of Jericho and the other nations that Israel invaded because their God "promised" other peoples lands to them? I'm sure God went around and let everyone know that he had given the fertile land to his favorite humans before he sent in waves of attacking warriors to slaughter women and children alike. And the only defense is "Well yeah, but they were worshiping other Gods so the one True God, you know, OUR God, has the right to annihilate any humans he wants to and if their God's aren't powerful enough to stop him, or at least the proxy hand of God, aka, us, then that proves OUR God is more powerful... Except when the victors in wars have been other religions, those don't count because our God was just letting them win to foster a false sense of security... "
More proof that the second "m" in Mormon is silent...
good one!! lol
LMAO! Very clever. 🙂
How do I get in on the LSD church, sounds like fun. I'll bring my bong.
Mormons obviously need to learn to keep their holy water to themselves. I have no desire to be given a "choice" after death that is forced upon me as I have made my choices willingly in life. It is presumptuous and rude to assume that because someone didn't choose to be Mormon in life that they would want this shoved on them in death. Just as I tell all the little Mormons that come knocking on my door I am non-Christian by choice. See I already made my choice now leave me out of your freak show.
as an atheist, this is hilarious, mainly because it sheds light on the ridiculousness of the mormon relgion but also the ridiculousness of other religions who care what they do. Its not like their diggin up bodies, they put names on a list..... it takes some fairly deep thought and reflection to accept the fact that we will not exist after we die... for the rest of time... its pretty scary but if you really think about it, its not, your dead, gone, asleep FOREVER... you won't even know it. I think our survival instinct is so powerful we just can't accept that one day we won't exist.... sorry people, that's reality, when your brain dies you cease to exist FOR ALL TIME.... deal with it...
I so agree. Didn't bother me a bit not existing for billions of years until I was born. Makes me relish all my moments I do have while I am here.
No Kenny, That's YOUR reality.
You don't know any more than anyone else. Stop trying to look smart Kenny.
Kenny, while I am not an atheist, I do agree with you as far as what difference does it make if the Mormons put you on a list or not! It has no bearing on what religion you followed or lack of faith you had when alive. If you didn't follow Mormon religion when alive it's not like you're going to be forced to follow it for eternity because they baptized you! Give me a break! Personally I, and apparently the Mormon church, don't approve of these post-holocaust victim baptisms. And frankly, I hate to say it, but it seems to me Jewish people take any excuse to use the holocaust to point fingers at someone for doing yet something else to persecute or hurt them. That feeling of being constantly persecuted is a classic symptom of schizophrenia. I wish they'd give it a rest and/or go see a doctor. There is enough hate and paranoia in the world without Jewish followers throwing a tantrum, whining or otherwise complaining every-time they don't agree with something that even remotely touches on Jewish faith.
If the Statement was issued on Tuesday, why are we hearing about it on Thursday morning. The Timing is highly suspect given the republican debate was last night. The baptism wasn't even performed in the US. Why is this headline news, if not in an attempt at sparking controversy about Mitt Romney. Is it an issue, sure, should it be addressed, absolutely. But it wouldn't be a headline if the Mitt Romney wasn't running for President. Mitt Doesn't speak for the LDS church and he has no control over what the LDS church does. Aside from being a member of the religion the issue doesn't concern him at all.
So what, it is all fairyland stuff anyways.
This doesn't solve the problem except for the distinct case of holocaust victims. This cult still does this "for" or I should say "against" everyone else. It's part of their "our church is better than your church" thinking which is not unique to this outfit but is practiced with a certain zeal especially against the dead who can't defend themselves.
So, assuming for a moment that all this baloney about the afterlive, Heaven, Hell, etc. is true, and that these baptisms actually do something.... Does this mean that Anne Frank, who's been burning in Hell for the last however-many years, suddenly gets a halo, wings, and is sucked up into Heaven?
@ Keith: I'm a Christian and NOBODY knows what's gonna happen so I wouldn't worry about it. Just try and be a good person to yourself, your family and your fellow man and you will cross that bridge when you get to it.
No it does not mean she would be burning in hell. Mormons do not believe in a Heaven/Hell distinction prevalent in some other Christian faiths. They do not even believe that bad people will burn in hell after this life, but rather that the consequences of rejecting Christ's grace and making bad choices will seperate them from God's presence after this life. I hope that answers your question. According to them, this rejection of Christ's grace must occur before the permanent seperation from God's presence.
"an attempt to give everyone a chance to accept salvation through Jesus"
How can someone who is already dead accept salvation?
The answer to your questions is that they can not be saved after they have died. This teaching of the Mormons does not have any basis in the scriptures of the Bible. God gives you the allotted days of your life to use and you are judged based on what do during that time and the decision you made relative to the atoning sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for you. If you accept Jesus as your savior you will go to heaven and if not you will not get into heaven. No one else can make that decision for you and once you die your decision is final.
Interesting comments... and while personally I agree postmortem baptisms have no significance on lief after death, I do wonder Eric... what do you think happens to newborns who die before they are baptized or others who died too young to even know how to speak let alone understand the concept of God. Do you really think God/Allah or whatever name you want to give Him would damn the innocent soul to hell just because they didn't get baptized/accept Him in time before they died? One must remember ALL religious rules were more or less made up/interpreted by man. And mostly to frighten and coerce believers to follow them closely (lest their flock stray to another religion). Religious leaders change these laws when it suits them and not because He told them too. No man speaks for Him. Everyone knows right from wrong and should just follow your heart; I think ironically those who are powerful religious figures do more wrong than the average follower!
It's like a bad addiction. This madness has to stop. Mr. Romney, this could be one of your first purposeful non goverment related actions to SPEAK PUBLICLYabout your religions INSANITY.. I want to vote for you but just can't because you won't even "come out" about your religions practices. How can I trust you in government???? Prove me wrong Mr. Romney
He already has proven you wrong...look at his past track record in both government and business. Look at his leadership of the Salt Lake Olympics. Before Romney, the SLC Olympics were predicted to be a disaster of historic proportions. In comes Romney and almost single-handedly it seems turns the whole affair around so that they are now hailed as one of the most successful winter games of all time. I recently met with the ambassador from South Korea to the U.S. who said their main goal was to pattern their upcomming olympic games after the ones held in Salt Lake.
Now that is leadership we can trust in this country.
What is even more rediculous is that people would take this article for face value. Some crazed, ex-mormon cat lady claims this happened, therefore it must be true?
Did anyone else watch the GOP debate last night? Romney gave a STELLAR performance. This is clearly made-up BS, meant to politicize people's fears of Romney's misunderstood faith. Pure propoganda at its finest.
Avoid thinking for yourselves a little more there people.
There is ZERO truth in this story. Anyone else notice the source? Some crazed ex-mormon claims x, therefore it must be true?
Come on people, us your brains. This is made-up political propoganda imagined to politicize people's fears toward the Mormon church, nothing more.
I weep for people like you who are stuck in a cult. Sad thing you will probably never realize your mind has been mentally manipulated into accepting anything your leaders tell you. George Orwell said it best: "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."
Maybe you should re-read the story. The source isn't "a crazed ex-Mormon". The church itself admitted that it happened and said it was going to discipline the people who were responsible. The "ex-Mormon" you referred to simply told CNN where the proxy Baptism occurred.
I weep for Joe T whose absence of objectivity will forever keep him in the dark.
So... you're saying that someone made this up so people won't vote for Romney?
Who said I am a Mormon? Any two-year old can tell how "objective" this story is. I would rather it would be you who remain unconcious because of your hate and desire to believe this to be true.
I know a cult when I see one.
Read in the Bible the Apostle Paul said the Christians were doing it at the time of Christ in the Temple 1 Corinthians 15:29
So that makes this right, in your mind?
Your bible is for chumps.
Off to planet KOLOB where we will find the ancestors of Mitt Romney.
His ancestors are all in Mexico. His dad was Mexican.
mdn, you are an !diot.
Kolob is the star nearest the planet of Mr. & Mrs. God.
I have known and been close friends with many mormons- I lived near the temple in salt lake city- and I am a jew. I a can with a very clear conscience tell everyone that Mormons as a group are about as honorable as it gets.. they are not as a group in any way anti-Semitic, and while I have lived with, around and worked with many Mormons, Ive never heard a single bad thing said about jews by any of them. While what these particular Mormon's did was wrong- they did so with what they thought were good intentions. I do not agree with their faith- I am a Jew.. and I will remain so.. but I will sit slight a group who I know holds malice for no one. I suggest before saying much about Mormons someone go visit Mormon Charities warehouses in Utah.. then tell me what you think. Until then.. do not commit slander
to your face, maybe. As for the Mormon "charities" they apply to Mormons only – they do very little charity work for society as a whole. All the "missionaries" are only out there to convert people. They don't build schools, dig wells, help farmers, etc. Its a huge money machine, that's all.
Ask them Mormon church how many non-Mormons that their charity helps. I can tell you that the answer is zero. The Mormon charities only help fellow Mormons.
but how would you feel as a Jew to know that your next door neighbor might put your name in for being baptized after you are dead?
I will also attest to the Mormons being the kindest, most compassionate people I've ever encountered. Our religions are starkly different, but am in awe of what honorable people they are. If all of humanity would be as others-focused as they are, our world would be a better place.
Regarding the posthumous baptisms, the more people praying for the dead the better. If you don't believe in the afterlife, it doesn't affect you in the least. If you are another religion and opt to deny the LDS baptism, at least it's a prayer to the God above.
Historically they weren't and were pretty bloosthirsty when they needed to be. Not saying they shouldn't defend themselves but they did instigate some attrocities in the past.
Remember, you can't spell "MORMON" without "MORON"
Moron was the Angel who made Joe Smith take all those tablets. He was never the same afterwards.
That would be the Angel Moroni.
Don't forget the hat and glasses! 🙂
Believing in angels is moronic