 |
|
|
|
 Mitt Romney, left, won more Ohio Catholics on Tuesday than Rick Santorum.
March 7th, 2012
03:53 AM ET
Loudly Catholic Santorum loses Ohio CatholicsBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Rick Santorum, a conservative Catholic who is outspoken about faith-based issues, lost Catholic voters by a wide margin in Ohio on Tuesday, potentially a key factor that allowed Mitt Romney to squeak out the narrowest of victories overall in the state. According to CNN’s exit polls, Romney took 43% of Ohio Catholics on Super Tuesday, compared to 31% for Rick Santorum, and Romney beat Santorum overall by 38% to 37%. Read how Santorum fared Tuesday Catholic voters accounted for a third of Ohio’s Republican electorate, the largest share of Catholics in any Super Tuesday state. Delegate tracker | Delegate calculator “The margin of Romney's win among Ohio Catholics is surprising, given Santorum's traditional Catholicism,” says John Green, a political science professor at the University of Ohio. “Romney's margin among Ohio Catholics - especially in the three largest metropolitan areas - may account for his close win in Ohio.” Green notes that Romney, a Mormon, has consistently won the Catholic vote in this year’s Republican primaries. That pattern runs counter to speculation that Catholics would focus more on hot-button issues at a time when Catholic bishops are battling the Obama White House over government-mandated contraception coverage. Get the latest news on Santorum's campaign Romney has denounced the Obama administration’s contraception rule but Santorum has gone further, making social issues a cornerstone of his campaign. Last week, the former Pennsylvania senator said that John F. Kennedy’s 1960 speech in which the then-presidential candidate advocated an absolute separation of church and state nearly made him throw up. The Catholic vote is one of the largest swing blocs in the country, voting for the winning presidential candidates from both parties in recent elections. But the bloc is so diverse, including many Catholics who differ with church leaders on social issues and many who have drifted from the church, that many religious and political experts dismiss any notion of a “Catholic vote.” Read how Santorum plans to fight to the end In Ohio, the most contested of the 10 states to cast ballots on Tuesday, Catholics represented one of GOP primary’s main constituencies. Another major bloc, white evangelicals, comprised almost half of the Ohio vote, and broke for Santorum over Romney by 47% to 30%. One progressive Catholic group made political hay out of Santorum’s weak showing among Ohio Catholics, emailing reporters a statement titled “Santorum campaigns on divisive wedge issues, promptly loses Catholic vote.” Five things we learned from Super Tuesday “Catholic voters care more about economic issues that affect their families than they do about socially divisive wedge issues like contraception,” said James Salt, executive director of Catholics United, in the statement. “Mainstream Catholics want leaders who can address the moral challenges of our day like income inequality, underwater mortgages and poverty,” Salt continued, “not leaders who perpetuate a never-ending culture war that divides our community.”
Next entry »Jesus on a tortilla?
« Previous entryDublin cathedral pleads for return of 884-year-old heart
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
Some people see the hypocrisy in approving the death penalty, and also being pro-life. Catholics see that some methods of
contraception such as condoms and birth control pills that prohibit an egg from being fertilized, lowers the rate of abortions
When contraception is used, the number of abortions drops.
That's a rather simplistic analysis. Yes, when using contraception the individual chance of getting pregnant decreases. However, the contraceptive mentality has led to wide-spread promiscuity, with people relying on contraception to prevent pregnancy. However, the drop in the odds of conceiving does not offset the increase in activity. The result is more conceptions and then because these were unintended pregnancies, more abortions.
@ajk68 I'd like to see the evidence to support your claim, or the counter. Overall birth rates in the US have been on the decline for decades now. Yet if you are claiming that there is more "action" going on, then that only means the percentage-wise birth control is working. (I avoided "promiscuity" because of what I perceive as judgmental overtones.)
ajk68
Catholic clergy are both gay and promiscuous, as well as being men who hunger for boys.
How can they possibly be a moral beacon? They do not practice what they preach.
They are a cult.
There is no hypocrisy what so ever between supporting the death penalty when it's appropriate and opposing abortion, infanticide and euthanasia (what you call pro-life)
The church, like most rational, intelligent clear thinking people, has no difficulty differentiating between the killing of someone who's crimes pose a threat to the lives and peace of innocent people and the taking of life from an innocent person who has committed no crime and done no harm.
It is the sickest of minds who can't see the difference between a mass murdering terrorist who is committed to killing and maiming others whenever the opportunity presents itself and a child in its mothers womb or and elderly person in need of medical care.
Most pro-life people are against the death penalty. Specifically for Catholic pro-lifers, the Catholic Church's teaching is that capital punishment can be warranted in cases where the danger to society cannot be mitigated by incarceration. The position of the Church's hierarchy is that such conditions do not exist today.
Demuth .. that is a heck of a blanket statement. Have any proof to back that claim up?
@ Paul – when you execute an innocent person, who should we hold responsible for their murder? Should those people then be executed?
When innocent people have been on deathrow for years, waiting to be killed, and it turns out they are innocent, and have been through a living hell for years, what should we do to the folks who put them on death row? Should the judge, jury, witnesses, lawyers, investigators be punished?
Mark from Middle River
Well, we can start when you show me where Christ had Hetro drives, because I can show you booko old books that say he was gay.
Any wife? Any kids? And bimbos? Lived with his mom. Hung out in caves with little boys.
Read the darn book, its OBVIOUS.
The author states "the bloc is so diverse, including many Catholics who differ with church leaders on social issues and many who have drifted from the church, that many religious and political experts dismiss any notion of a “Catholic vote.”"
True, the Catholic vote is not a unified voting bloc. For starters there is the Democrat Catholic vote and the Republican Catholic vote. Big split right off the bat. From there you need to look at modernists (liberal) and the traditionalists (conservative).
The Democrat Catholic vote is overwhelmingly made up of modernists, with a small percentage being traditionalists.
The Republican Catholic vote (the focus of this article) is again comprised primarily of modernists, with a slightly higher percentage (although still a minority) being traditionalists.
So, to see a state like Ohio have 'Catholics' prefer Romney over Santorum by a 43-31% margin should really come as no surprise to anyone. Modernist Catholics simply outnumber traditional Catholics.
To get an idea as to how traditional Catholics vote, it would be better to look to the evangelical vote as a starting point for analysis. For instance, the article states "Another major bloc, white evangelicals, comprised almost half of the Ohio vote, and broke for Santorum over Romney by 47% to 30%."
Bottom line, the Catholic vote is not Democrat or Republican; but it certainly is more modernist than traditional.
Romney is a dangerous anti-Christian who is a "Manchurian Candidate" for Satan!
@Texas Doc,
Heal thyself... perhaps an exorcism is in order.
Or, just take two doses of reality and don't call in the morning.
Hahaha, that joke was hilarious!
Oh, wait. You were serious?
and Obama is a Muslim ...blah blah ... I think the days of scare tactics, especially on Blogs such as with very knowledgeable folks, are over.
Nah!
I see Romney more as the evil villan from Space Ghost
Some weird insect from beyond who occasionaly wears a human suit!
Think meat puppet who has zero clue about how to appear human
Yeah, and Obama is that normal looking. Even in the African American community the biggest miracle is not getting himself elected .... it was how did he score someone as hot as Michelle.
Such should not have been possible
Mark from Middle River
I suspect his best features aren't visible on TV if ya follow!
There is a basic problem with this article, and a lot of the commentary out here. The truth is that the Catholic voting segment is very large and very diverse. To make statements one way or the other to speak for the entire group is simply not accurate. Due to the large number of people involved, there is a diversity of opinions on what people do vs. their beliefts. A lot of people talk to their other Catholic friends, and they think the whole church believes "x, y, or z", and this is true of a lot of people. Travel around to different parishes, and you will find a diversity of opinions, that's the reality. The overgeneralizations from all segements, right or left, is so pronounced this election season. I just wonder when we will ever get to the point where we can discuss issues again on a civil level without name calling, labeling, and hatred. That's the real problem we ALL have to worry about in this country right now. United we stand, divided we falll.
You are exactly right. Catholics in America are quite diverse. Many self identified Catholics are almost secular in their beliefs and simply celebrate the Christian holidays in a Catholic house of worship without following all of the Vatican's teachings or principles. The media is over reaching in an effort to spin every positive for Romney. It helps when you have a well paid media and PR team spinning these kinds of tails.
@Bill exactly what I said. the portion of the statement you selectively left out which matter of factly affirms the legitimacy of the right of the state to use the death penalty serves to illustrate the utter dishonestly of those who claim the Catholics may not support the use of it.
"very rare, if not practically nonexistent." is not the same as never and one is free as a Catholic to debate, as Cardinals, theologians and other officials of the church frequently do, the legitimacy of specific applications of the punishment but we are not free to misrepresent the teaching. The section you partially quoted makes it crystal clear that anyone who claims there is a Catholic teaching against the death penalty or that support of the death penalty puts one outside of communion with the Church is flat out lying.
Paul – your opinion makes it seem like there's a viable contingent within the church that supports the death penalty. That is absolutely not the case. Both the cardinals and the pope have actively expressed their disagreement with the use of capital punishment. And given that the US is one of only a few developed nations that still use capital punishment, it's even less likely that there's any debate among your peer Catholics in different countries.
US Catholics have a bit of an issue to face, in that capital punishment is part of the US system and goes against most of the modern Catholic teachings. So while you are correct in that there's no official position of the Church against it (as in an edict from the Pope), only a conflicted Catholic would want to believe that there's any real debate on the issue within the Church. There isn't. You can still call yourself a Catholic and be pro-capital punishment by the letter of the Church, but to argue that there's a debate or that the Spirit of the Church isn't fully against it is just trying to make your own thinking make sense.
Sorry Will but you simply not being accurate: http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/captpunish.htm
As a long-time Republican (by values – I vote for the best candidate regardless), I am somewhat surprised that the Republican party still hasn't produced a viable candidate.
This article – and many others – clearly states that Santorum is too much of a religious nut-job to be electable. He's all about legislating morality and getting the ultra-conservative vote. However, I'm pretty sure that with the exception of religious nut-jobs, no one wants religion pushed down their throats. Out goes Santorum.
Romney is a rich guy looking out for rich guys' interests. The "rich will create jobs if we give them tax breaks" is a complete myth and has failed since it became popular with Reagan, who had a long history of hating paying taxes. I don't believe for a minute that Romney will support anyone but the rich, and I don't see how he will ever be able to connect on any type of personal level with the average person. Out goes Mitt.
Gingrich... I don't even know where to begin. He's got the experience and knows his way around. But he's been part of the problems for the past 20-30 years. Forget about his marital situation (which frankly I don't see as anyone's business), I just flat out don't trust him.
Paul – can't win a primary. Won't stand a chance in the big election.
At the end of the day, I think we've got Obama in the white house for another 4 years. I think that's pretty much a done deal, and many that's why potentially viable Republican candidates aren't stepping up at all. Given the obstructionism by Republicans over the past few years, I think the Democrats will make gains across the board this election.
Will
Ironicaly, this year it is the Jews, that will decide who the president is.
If an attack occurs against Iran anywhere near election day, all the traditional knowledge shall prove obsolete.
The specter of a new war, with HUGE religious underpinings will shake our system to its core.
It would be a whole new ball game.
@William Demuth – Sorry, I just can't follow your logic. While I agree that a war in Iran would certainly be a game changer, I fail to see how that (or Jews) will decide the election. Like Catholics, the Jews that I know tend to place their votes where it makes sense. They are not all pro-Israel nor do they vote as a bloc anymore than the Catholics do.
Will
I suspect you don't see the history of it?
Nationalisim is a POWERFUL force, and with Jewish influence in the media, I fear the two shall make for a dangerous combination.
Will, the problem is that your party has been taken over by the nutters. Religious nutters. Tea bagger nutters. Your party would kick Reagan and Goldwater out for being too liberal.
Until, and unless, the more rational members of your party kick these cretins out, it doesn't look good for you guys.
“The margin of Romney's win among Ohio Catholics is surprising, given Santorum's traditional Catholicism,” says John Green, a political science professor at the University of Ohio. “Romney's margin among Ohio Catholics – especially in the three largest metropolitan areas – may account for his close win in Ohio.”
***** There is no such thing as University of Ohio. It was either Ohio University or Ohio State University. Good journalism, CNN.
yeah no kidding. I read that 3 times thinking to myself, which one did this idiot mean. He's either a Buckeye or a Bobcat. Leave it to the media to screw that one up.
I agree that the Catholic "bloc" is too diverse to define it as such. Most Catholics of my acquaintance are far less concerned with the social issues than their leaders. Even on abortion there is a range of opinion I think, but contraception? I think the honest but extreme positions that Santorum espoused after his three wins took him entirely off message and probably doomed him. If Romney doesn't get the nomination, then it will be a dark horse at the convention. The rest are all damaged goods.
Mitt Romney gives more to charity than any if his 3 rivals. He has a proven record of success in both business and politics and knows how to choose good business associates and employees- a key skill for a President in nominating judges and cabinet members. He is solidly pro-life and stands with Catholics on a whole host of other social issues, not the least of which is defense of religious employers' right of moral conscience. He is skilled at defending his positions with well-phrased and reasonable arguments. Santorum, by contrast, has a penchant for extreme rhetoric and an unfortunate tendency to defend his social positions in a way that only draws ire and seldom wins over opponenets. His weak organizational skills, as evidenced by his failure to get himself on key ballots like Virginia, contrast starkly with Romney's record of success. Catholic voters, therefore, guided by reason as well as their faith, choose Mitt Romney over RIck Santorum overwhelmingly.
Sadly except for the lone John Boehner...... he is the ultimate boring speaker I have ever heard. Putin and Merkel are almost cheerleaders compared to Romney.
In short there are not so many "Good" Catholics out there, therefore less votes Santorum and more for Romney.
Yeah..I was told I was not a "Good" African American because I did not vote for Obama to become the first black President.
,... then I was told I was not a "Good" Republican because I did not vote for McCain...
Who gets to define what the optimum person is in a social group?
I'm a good Catholic and I would never vote for Santorum. In part I do not think he is a good Catholic and I do not think he tries that hard to lead a life in emulation of Christ. He has done some great work but he often seems driven to promote divisiveness and strife. He seems to care for some people far less than others. That's not a good Catholic in my view. Of course, that being said, the Pope wouldn't say I'm a good Catholic as there are a number of issues he and I do not see eye to eye on. Of course, respectful dissent within the Church is well tolerated (cf liberation theology).
I am a Catholic woman, and a Woman's Health professional nurse. I will not vote for Santorum because failure to provide appropriate health care to women in the arena of reproduction is a health threat to a lot of women. I am speaking from the experience that I live every day.
I'm sorry to break this to you but you are not a Catholic woman as you claim. You are at best a woman who claims to be Catholic but whose refusal to accept church teachings on certain moral issues has severed your relationship with the Church and placed you outside of communion with it.
If you don't believe go have a chat with your Bishop and he'll explain it to you.
"I'm sorry to break this to you but you are not a Catholic woman as you claim. You are at best a woman who claims to be Catholic but whose refusal to accept church teachings on certain moral issues has severed your relationship with the Church and placed you outside of communion with it."
Hate to break it to you, Paul, but I'm pretty sure no one has given you any authority to judge the tenant's of anyone else's faith. Maybe its you who needs to brush up on your theology before spouting nonsense at people.
Santorum is a radical Catholic. All but 3 of the supreme court justices are Catholic (the others are Jewish, there are no Protestants). If Santorum by some God-forsaken chance becomes president, we might as well give this country to the Catholic church, as its leader will be the Pope. Catholics believe theirs is the only true religion and make no attempt to tolerate people of other beliefs.
>>>"Catholics believe theirs is the only true religion and make no attempt to tolerate people of other beliefs."
"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls – 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers." Mother Teresa
Are you sure you are speaking for all Catholics?
So true.
The supremes are crucial.
We need representation of those who reject the ravings of Abraham.
Letting any view dominate the court is immoral and anti democratic.
This is a huge misconception and overgeneralization, not to mention simply not true. Obvious you haven't really spent much time around Catholics. We are one of the most tolerant denominations out there.
We need an atheist on the Supreme Court...
Yet another person who THINKS they know what it means to be Catholic and what the church teach but merely exhibits her utter ignorance when speaking on the subject.
Hi Bookgirl, I'm Catholic. I respect all other religions and feel that as long as they promote love, toleration, respect, and the building of loving communities they are fine in my book. Catholic teaching also says that while Catholicism is the best way towards salvation it is not the only path. Personally, I don't believe God who is, in my view, the transcendental embodiment and source of love, would reject any loving and kind person from God's Grace simply because they don't toe some sort of man made dogmatic line. Don't believe in the Trinity? Well, do you love God and treat others with love and as you wnat to be treated? Rock, your in. You believe in Vishnu? Are you a good person who did good things? Fine, you're in too. Are you an atheist? Are you a good person who acted with kindness love and toleration? Well God believes in you even if you don't believe in God. Don't get me wrong – faith *matters* but faith is not a license to act like a tool. You can lead a Christlike life even without knowing who Christ is. Grace is a gift from God. Not from the Pope.
And yes, I know this makes me sound like a radical protestant or even a unitarian but I still consider myself Catholic. I just feel the theology of my religion is in need of some reform.
Catholics, particularly women, do what is BEST for THEIR situation and NOT what the men of the Catholic church preach. If getting pregnant will be a medical/financial problem, then she WILL take measures to be sure she does not get pregnant. And watching the calendar does not guarantee that she will not get pregnant; never has, never will. Until the Catholic church will allow women to serve in the same capacity as men, the church will not understand the issues that women face. Yes, I am a Catholic woman and I will be judged by the one who counts and not by a bunch of men who don't understand what women face everyday (or every month)!
Time to take a good look at all the births to the unwed who can't afford to have one yet many children. I'm tired of hearing the Church ask for donations to help those who can't afford to feed, cloth, house, educate their children. I would support paying for birth control but I don't support paying their hospital bills every time they go into labor!
So in summary, you won't donate money for those that are alive but are willing to donate money to destroy innocent life. Is that accurate? How pathetic and you want to be in charge of the church? God help us.
The "Catholic voter" should be broken down further into two categories. "Committed Catholic", meaning Catholics that go to Mass every Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation (when not impeded to do so). "Habitual Catholic", meaning the ones that don't meet the definition of "Committed Catholic." I would suspect Santorum would overwhelmingly carry the "Committed Catholic" vote!
Smells like "No True Scotsmen"...
Ironic
Commited Catholics? I support your suggestion
Let us commit them.
I go to Church, I don't ever recall being told that we should support war.
@Paula: That fallacy *might* apply, but my assertion could still be true. It definitely would not be a fallacy if such a poll was conducted. Do you know of one? I've searched and came up empty. The two groups do exist you know.
@Sarah: Investigate the Church's "Just War Doctrine".
Check out Santorum's policies when weighed against Catholic Social Teaching. From war to education to immigration to capital punishment to the environment to the economy, Santorum contradictswith Catholic Social Teaching. He is a one issue Catholic who neds to be told (and our U.S. Bishops will not tell him) that life begins at conception, but does not end at birth. Looking forward to seeing the U.S. Bishops support a Mormon.
"Loudly Catholic" is something of an oxymoron, Matthew 6:1-21 (an Ash Wednesday reading).
To be fair there are a lot of "Catholics" that use birth control, support abortion, the death penalty, and MIGHT show up to mass on Christmas and/or Easter. You know, they call themselves Catholic but don't adhere to any of the tenets of the faith. They've excommunicated themselves from the church and they are unaware of it.
Kind of like "Conservatives" who vote for a Liberal. Or "Americans" who support Marxist agendas and embrace big government.
Call yourself what you want, it's your actions that define you, not your name or what you were born into.
I wish all religious people thought like you. I am tired of hearing from religious people that because I don't believe what they believe that I'm going to burn in hell or be destroyed by God at Armageddon.
I should be judged by what kind of person I am, not what denomination of Christianity I belong to.
Ned
I suspect it is you who wishes to define others to empower yourself.
Your words betray a desire to exclude beliefs based on your beliefs, which is the circular logic of the indoctrinated.
People are always trying to define others and use their bigoted beliefs to classify them.
Perhaps Christ should have said, categorize not, lest ye be characterized
I guess I can't be a Catholic since I have the annoying habit of thinking for myself.
With 98% of Catholic women having used birth control devices why would they vote for a person who wants to restrict or make them feel guilty for that use.
I imagine, based on the simple ignorance displayed in your question, the answer to the question is far more complicated than you're capable of understanding at this time.
You'd first have to wrangle with the fact that the "issue" of contraception as it relates to Rick Santorum in this race is nothing but a media constructed straw man orchestrated by the White House to damage him while continuing to conduct it's war on of First Amendment liberties.
Once having come to grips with the realization of just how easily and thoroughly manipulated you were by George Stephanopolus and the rest of Obama's media puppets you'd then have to actually learn what the Catholic teaching is on the subject and how the church responds to the day to day problem couples deal with in trying to manage their families in the modern world.
Here's a hint to get you pointed in the right direction: just because a person does something doesn't mean they don't also recognize the correctness of church's teaching against it. Doing it may simply be a reflection of their inability to reconcile what they know to be true with the difficulties they face in their life.
I'm a Catholic and I know the Church's teachings on many subjects that I fail to live up to in my daily life – not because I think I'm smart that the church leaders but because I weak. That why I seek forgiveness through the sacraments and try to do better.
There are three kinds of people who call themselves Catholic, those who are culturally Catholic having been raised in the traditions but have no interest or concern for the teachings one way or another, those who know the teachings an openly defy them because like all good little pointy head liberals they think they're smarter and no better than the people who've been debating moral issues for two thousand years and set themselves up as their own personal Popes and those who know the teachings, recognize the value and correctness of them but just haven't gotten to where they can keep faithful to them.
A substantial number of the women who call themselves Catholic and use artificial contraception are women who know exactly what Santorum , and the church, is taking about when they speak of the harm these products are causing to women and how it degrades them in their relationships and in society but they can't see another way to function without them...
These are the women who will vote for Santorum despite what they may or may not do. The little self appointed Popes types, they vote Romney or Obama and don't legitimately call themselves Catholic.
If you are using birth control then you ain't a Catholic- so find a new religion.
facepalm
If a people are not united under one God then you never have an optimum system of equality for all. Even for the atheist if people are not united in the common good you never have an optimum base for equality. If you and I have the same house same car same leisure suit Larry life we eventually go crazy or slide downhill in unison. All of nature struggles to survive with a dominate group at the top. At issue is what shall we give the peasants to keep them content and productive. In the Western World View over thousands of years there was God that gave hope to the peasants and they worked hard and looked forward to the promised land that got them through hard times and allowed them to understand their earthly masters and natural hardship. Their Lord Jesus said when you work do it as if onto the Lord as you can only have one master. Now, we have upset the apple cart and since 1960 stores began opening up on Sundays, trash on tv and in your face everywhere, free love, bible study kicked out of school. Today 75% of Christians stop going to church after they get out of college. The old system of peasant control is broken down and we are breaking down into feudal like communities protecting our own self interests. We have the gay community, the black, Hispanic, AARP, etc. all at each others throats for free handouts because our focus is lost. When the peasants have no God all are godless animals and you may as well brace yourself because when the gravy train runs dry the peasants will burn down your house of cards.
"We have the gay community, the black, Hispanic, AARP, etc. all at each others throats for free handouts because our focus is lost. "
Wow you are such a LIAR – your stupidity is just amazing.
That's what Hitler said when he mentioned that religion helps him control the people better. He didn't want a bunch of independent thinkers who have their own ideas.
"When the peasants have no God all are godless animals and you may as well brace yourself because when the gravy train runs dry the peasants will burn down your house of cards."
This is why you have a need to believe in a god, your view point of humanity is warped and full of negativity, no wonder you have addiction issues.
Wow
It is political at the moment because our stomachs are still full. Can you argue that the parties do not divide the gay against the christian and black against the white, proabortion against prolife?
Hey Fred, you forgot to add Republican Alabamans, farmers, and basically every American to your list of people who want handouts. Ever been to a sporting event where they are handing out Red Bulls, Coke, or some type of candy? I'm sure you have taken one. You Marxist.
Sounds like fred would have been all for the crusades. After all, a successful end result would have had everybody being part of the same religion.
Tell me fred, if we all have to believe the same thing, what's the right thing to believe? Which of the thousands of denominations of Christianity should we all adhere to?
But fred, which 'god'? Man has invented thousand of them, with some very different requirements for how people should act and which hand and finger they should use to pick their noses with. How will you know that your own particular Abominable Cloudman is the one we should unite under? And why do you not use your left index finger more consistently when you pick?
Although the Flying Spaghetti Monster sure has a lot going for him.
Ramen
Scandinavia is godless, why aren't those countries burning everything down? Ahhh, because they are rational human beings...
@Paula: It's pretty pointless to try to have a discussion with fred. He tries hard at first, but if you confront him with too many of the inconsistencies in his belief structure, his cognitive dissonance short-circuits his brain and he falls back on meaningless, defensive rhetoric.
I had a brief glimmer of hope once that he'd come around one day, but he is truly lost. You can continue to run circles around him if it's entertaining for you, but if you start getting frustrated...well...you were warned.
SeanNJ
So I was your glimmer of hope? Never put your hope in man as you will be let down sooner or later. This is why those that use religion to control the masses find it so useful. Get the focus off the present problem and onto hope in a better place. Trust in that which cannot be seen is far better than 1,000 shares of Facebook which the peasant cannot afford.
Thank you for that excellent example of why the Founding Fathers were so insistent on the separation of church and state!
Fred you have compiled the most idiotic, numb skull drivel and nonsense I have heard in a long time.
"Never put your hope in man as you will be let down sooner or later."
Your negativity towards humanity is disgusting, no wonder your fell for the christian cult.
Doug
Scandinavia has unity in a bond with the old faith. They have the truth of God in their core belief structure and simply do not attribute their beliefs to God. This is not proof that pure socialism works rather it is proof that the principles of God work whether you believe in God or not.
That is a good role model unfortunately we do not have the truths of God uniting us.
fred, I'll take those real facebook shares over that fairytale god of yours anytime, myself. Hand 'em over.
JoeT
Paula
There is only one God and when we are called you will hear the voice that was intended for you. As to denominations what is important is the core truth not all the stuff man has added to that truth. God is bigger than we give credit for and is very capable of brining those into the Kingdom that truly want to come. Crusades are the works of man using the tools of man whereas God works with our spirit and in the Spirit.
Terry
God offers real etenal unity where you are exactly who you were created to be in Christ. FaceBook is a virtual reality that is limited in time and space. What does it profit a man to own facebook shares but loose his soul.
georgeex
Hitler and others have always used religion to suit their purpose as do this years candadates. God does not use he gives and has done so since creation.
Wow
You know it is not lie and you know humanity is basically evil. Children being allowed to starve by a people that have had the technology and resources to end starvation long ago. There is your evil at the core of man that would starve those least capable of care for themselves. Have you given your all to help these children or do you just allow the scraps to fall off you table where they will? Jesus said man cannot have two masters for he will cling to one and hate the other. What are you clinging too?
fred, speaking of evil as you have, let's have a look at your super-evil religion while we're at it. Let's see, your bible advocates slavery, all manner of abuse including sexual abuse, and contains very explicit instructions for animal sacrifice. So, you're standing in quicksand and sinking if you are trying to claim that your religion represents some wonderful path forward. In fact, it represents a giant step back, one that only stupid people would be fooled into taking.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
The margin of Romney's win among Ohio Catholics is surprising, given Santorum's traditional Catholicism,” says John Green, a political science professor at the University of Ohio. Not related, but there's no such college as the University of Ohio....good job CNN