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Feds grant Native American tribe permit to kill bald eagles for religious purposes
March 15th, 2012
10:33 PM ET

Feds grant Native American tribe permit to kill bald eagles for religious purposes

By Eric Fiegel, CNN

Washington (CNN) - It's the symbol of America, and for the first time, the U.S. government has granted a Native American tribe a permit to kill two bald eagles for religious purposes.

The permit application was filed in 2008 by the Northern Arapaho Tribe in Wyoming and, after years of review, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued it on March 9.

"They did make a case for why the take of a bird from the wild was necessary," Matt Hogan, Denver regional director for the Fish and Wildlife Service, told CNN.

Last year, the tribe filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging the federal government for denying the application, saying it "unreasonably burdens the religious rights of tribal members," court documents stated.

The case is pending.

Hogan, who was in charge of granting the permit, says the lawsuit was not the reason the permit got approved when it did. He says it took time to make sure all the criteria were met and that the permit was in accordance with the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, which allows bald eagles to be used by Native Americans in religious ceremonies.

The eagle "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator," said Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians. Holden said he was bothered by the comments he was hearing: that this permit would lead to a mass killing of bald eagles.

"How stupid can that be?" he said. "It's a religion. It's what we do. We're more concerned about the eagle population than any culture in this Western Hemisphere. Why would we want to kill all the eagles?"

Hogan said the permit's issuance will have little effect on the powerful raptor. Taking two eagles from the wild "will not in any way jeopardize the status of the eagle population, either in the state of Wyoming or nationwide," he said, "and the good news is bald eagles are doing quite well."

That wasn't the case some 70 years ago, when the species was threatened with extinction, leading Congress to pass a law prohibiting the killing, selling or possession of the bird. In 2007, the bald eagle was removed from the threatened and endangered species list.

Hogan said applications for a permit to kill or capture a bald eagle are rare. Native Americans often have to get bald eagle feathers for their ceremonies from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife national feather repository in Denver. Hogan said it can take years for the tribes to get the feathers this way, because demand often exceeds supply.

Holden, who is part Choetaw/Shickasaw, sought to put some perspective on the situation: "If someone ordered a Bible or some religious artifact and they had to wait for a long time, how fair is that?"

The permit is good until February 2013, and Hogan said he knows of no other applications being filed. As part of permit, the tribe has to notify the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service within 24 hours once the bald eagles are killed or captured.

Hogan said he is still waiting for that word.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Church and state • United States

soundoff (1,883 Responses)
  1. Rod in Texas

    I have often wondered why the eagle is the national symbol for America instead of the Turkey.

    Here is what Benjamin Franklin had to say about the eagle versus the turkey.

    "For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.
    "I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America... He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on."

    March 16, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • Real America

      Large powerful raptor vs something so stupid it drowns in the rain. Ask again after the November elections what best symbolizes America.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Jr.

      @ Rod in Texas. Did you know sir that turkeys are less respectable they are very well known to invade the nest of quails, grousse and other bird groups and eating their young and or eggs. This is very much a picture of modern soceity no wonder many would want our symbol to be changed to a turkey.

      March 16, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • rachelfox27

      I think that description is a perfect example of what America has been and still is.

      March 16, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
  2. plucky

    "They did make a case for why the take of a bird from the wild was necessary," Matt Hogan, Denver regional director for the Fish and Wildlife Service, told CNN

    OK Matt, what was this great case? Was it what was quoted later in the article?

    The eagle "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator,"

    or this...

    "It's a religion. It's what we do."

    March 16, 2012 at 11:20 am |
  3. mikrik13

    And sports teams can't use native images/names but it is ok to kill eagles. Can't have it both ways guys. Religion has evolved throughout history to deal with the world as it exists today. No reason your religion can't change too.

    March 16, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Bryan

      In all seriousness – What does your comparison have to do with anything?

      Being able to use typically incorrect and derogatory names for a group of people (redskins, Indians etc), in no way compares to the legal sanctioning of taking 2 birds. Seriously – Why not complain about all the chickens or turkeys dying everyday just so you can stuff your face?

      These people on the grounds of their religion have requested the lawful taking of 2 birds.

      GET A GRIP.

      March 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
  4. rastignac

    What if an ancient religion asks for permission to throw a virgin into a volcano to appease the angry gods? That used to happen. Will it be allowed because it is a cherished religious practice? Will permission be denied because it is inhumane and barbaric? Or will permission be denied because virgins are already on the brink of extinction?

    March 16, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • duckforcover

      If a "fundamentalist Christian" allows their child die rather than get medical treatment???

      March 16, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Rod in Texas

      Hahaha....."virgins on the brink of extinction. " That was a good one. As a former welfare caseworker, I can tell you that I have seen too many 13 and 14 year old girls come in there because they have a baby. I had a 17 year old in there one time that was pregnant with her FIFTH child. A 19 year old had 6 children. It's crazy!

      March 16, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • truegoddess

      You make an excellent point. Sad. Instead of focusing attention on important matters like obesity, school dropouts/education, drug abuse, child abuse, etc...they are focused on the bald eagle. When they have this special 'ceremony' I hope they pray for a strong educated leader to arrive.

      March 18, 2012 at 9:38 am |
  5. jimtanker

    I wonder if they taste like chicken.

    March 16, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • ﺶCHEﺶ

      Question: does your pot roast taste like pig roast?
      Make sense to ya?

      March 16, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
  6. Truthwillsetyoufree

    fix this pos comment board!

    March 16, 2012 at 11:11 am |
  7. Truthwillsetyoufree

    Don't do it around me or you will be surprised what happens. This is intolerable...

    March 16, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • hippypoet

      lol, so you won't tolerate the intolerable intolerance that has been so long tolerated before you? isn't that also intolerance?

      March 16, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • steve g

      really....and what would you do oh intolerable one

      March 16, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • steve

      Smelly feet are intolerable too

      March 16, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
  8. troy

    Thats it I am becoming athiest this crap just gets dumber and dumber I thought suicide bombing was a religous thing why not let those people do that too.

    March 16, 2012 at 11:10 am |
  9. Colin

    More creatures to be killed in our futile pursuit of non-existent sky gods.

    March 16, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @Colin – True. But they have the right to practice their beliefs, just as much as the stupid christians do. Probably more so, since they have never tried to force anyone to have their beliefs. That's the Const.it.ution, and what we swore to defend.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:18 am |
  10. streetsmt

    Ok, this article did not leave me with a satisfying reason why anyones religious beliefs makes it necessary to allow these eagles to be killed. It only feels irrational to me.

    March 16, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • steve g

      would you care if they were pigeons?

      March 16, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • streetsmt

      Yes. Anything killed for irrational reasons. And you don't care?

      March 16, 2012 at 11:31 am |
  11. hippypoet

    kill'um! they don't deserve the power of flight!
    albatross here!

    Ah ! well a-day ! what evil looks
    Had I from old and young !
    Instead of the cross, the Albatross
    About my neck was hung.

    the burden of the death of a beautiful creature is at your gods feet and your for the blind faith that "made" you do it!

    March 16, 2012 at 11:05 am |
  12. Joe T.

    Why don't Jews still make animal sacrifices?

    March 16, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Russ

      No temple. Dome of the Rock sits where their temple sacrifices would occur.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Jr.

      Because Jesus Christ died on the cross and arose again for the forgiveness of all mens sins Thus becoming the only True and Perfect Sacrifice.

      March 16, 2012 at 12:16 pm |
    • Joe T.

      Must suck to be Jewish then. They can't make any sacrifices so they can't be forgiven by God!

      Jews don't believe in Jesus as God's son so why would his sacrifice mean anything?

      March 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
  13. myweightinwords

    I have a great respect for most Native American faiths. They teach responsibility for the earth and the tribe. They honor those who came before and strive to give wisdom to those who follow.

    Most of those decrying this "sacrifice" probably have no idea the reasons or traditions at work here. And what little I know of Native American faiths (I have studied under several shaman from various tribes) tells me that it is probably nothing like what many imagine it to be.

    March 16, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • Real America

      The end result is the same as for a redneck shooting spree: dead eagles.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • SPA Knight

      You siad "Most of those decrying this "sacrifice" probably have no idea the reasons or traditions at work here" If this is true than you must be in support of those who oppose abortion and contraception on religious grounds as well correct?

      March 16, 2012 at 11:27 am |
      • myweightinwords

        @SPA Knight, No I fully support the woman's right to choose, and believe birth control should be available to all women at reasonable cost.

        March 19, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Jr.

      We must trust the fact that in every race, creed, tribe, and nation of peoples there have been some truths with the whole truth neglected. In any religion there can be idolatry even in cristendom GOD Forbid. In Romans c. 1 v. 16-25 GOD
      speaks about these groups who have worshipped the creation more than the creator which allows their minds to be subject to a spiritual enemy that turns it disfunctional ( reprobate ). Remember God's word says to owe no man nothing but Love for He is Love, but Love is not just a I Cor. 13 type of Love it is also encompassed with the whole truth. For He
      ( GOD ) says behold I come in the volume of the book ( BIDLE ).

      March 16, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • steve

      How many reservations have you visited? Ever hear of '18' money. Cannot feel sorry for them folks.....

      March 16, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
      • myweightinwords

        @Steve,

        I have been to a few, mostly of the Seneca and Cayuga nations. I am part Iroquois myself and visited with my family when I was a teenager.

        March 19, 2012 at 10:18 am |
  14. Graham

    "How stupid can that be?" he said.

    Let me naswer that. F*ing stupid. Allowing Bald Eagles to be killed for some nonsense ceremony to non-existent sky gods is something for the Dark Ages. And you believers wonder why we atheists oppose you having power.

    March 16, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • joco

      I'm not aware of any Northern Arapaho Tribe members trying to seize power ???

      March 16, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • bff

      @joco,
      His comment went right over your head.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • jessica

      please do not speak for all atheists. there are some people who can respect the religious needs of others without the believing then ourselves.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • steve g

      yup...because its the native american tribes trying to seize power huh....they're clearly the ones doing the most killing and causing the most trouble. and it's good to see you speak for about 2.3% of the worl too...

      March 16, 2012 at 11:29 am |
  15. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    They were here first ... christians stole their land ... destroyed their culture ... destroyed their food sources ... attempted to commit genocide on them ... forced them to live in poverty on land that christians didn't find useful ... let them have a couple of eagles.

    March 16, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Real America

      No

      March 16, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • momoya

      I'd like to see a compromise.. When an eagle is killed, certain measurements are made and pictures taken of where it was killed.. That sort of thing.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • PrimeNumber

      You're mostly right. But "....forced them to live in poverty on land that christians didn't find useful ." might need some adjustment. The Natives did somewhat better under the Christian missionaries than they did under the army. And the useless of land was decided on business principles rather than religion. A Sioux friend of mine attended a boarding school for Native American children. These kids were torn away from their families, and "assimilated". My friend explained that it was a federal school.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      The irony of this whole situation is that eagles became endangered because of stupid rednecks shooting them and federal government DDT spraying. Native Americans had nothing to do with it. Native Americans have always practiced conservation of resources and they were doing it long before the white man came to pillage them.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I'll give you that one. "....forced them to live in poverty on land that the federal government didn't find useful ." Better?

      March 16, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • joco

      I think there were some non-disciples of Christ involved as well.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • plucky

      Lucifer,
      Everything you said is/may be true. But that still does not justify the irrational behavior of killing even 1 animal for religious reasons.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @plucky – I never said I agreed with the practice. I think religion is a waste of time and energy and is one of the primary reasons the world is as f*ked up as it is.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • plucky

      Lucifer. Thanks for clarifying, but you did say "let them have a couple of eagles." I think you can understand that this can be construed as acceptrance.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Old Goat

      And after after conquoring them, we gave them land to live on, a monthly paycheck for doing nothing, and free medical care. What a raw deal!

      March 16, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
  16. PrimeNumber

    In the 1880's, the "White Fathers" encouraged the mass slaughter of buffalo in order to drive the Indians to the edge of extinction. THey nearly wiped out both. Now, the "White Fathers" are concerned about the using of a few bald eagles for Native American spiritual ceremonies. Hypocrasy.

    March 16, 2012 at 10:16 am |
  17. J.W

    I feel sorry for atheists, for they cannot truly enjoy the song Kyrie by Mister Mister.

    March 16, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      The beautiful people, the beautiful people ... it all comes down to the size of your steeple – marilyn manson

      March 16, 2012 at 10:27 am |
  18. momoya

    "How stupid can that be?" he said. "It's a religion. It's what we do. We're more concerned about the eagle population than any culture in this Western Hemisphere. Why would we want to kill all the eagles?"
    .
    Hmmm.. If there's one thing that can get you to kill all of something you claim to be concerned about–it's religion.

    March 16, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • catholic engineer

      momoya, have you considered how many animals have been killed in scientific experiments?

      March 16, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Bob

      catholic incompetent engineer,

      Have you considered that for the most part, those scientific experments served some actual purpose likely to benefit humanity rather than being brual sacrifices to a supposed deity (in the Christian case) that ought to need nothing yet demands killing. Have you considered that for the most part in valid modern science, that euthenasia is commonly used for the killing? That is not the case for the senseless butchery that your religion so explicitly demands of you.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • momoya

      @ catholic e

      Yes, I have; what's that got to do with my point?

      March 16, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Real America

      We should rejoice that momoya and Bob have escaped from religion that demands sacrifice of living things.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • catholic engineer

      @Bob "That is not the case for the senseless butchery that your religion so explicitly demands of you." On any of my posts I have never called anyone stupid or a liar or ignorant. But at this moment the temptation is severe. My religion DIScouraged the Iraq war, respects life from conception to natural death. Even Stalin rediculed Pius XII, sarcastically asking "how many divisions does the pope have." Get out of the Middle Ages where the Church, along with everyone else, was torturing people.

      As for my imcompetence? THe Uniited States Patent office would soundly disagree with you.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Catholic Atheist

      @ Catholic Engineer...

      Then what is your point? What are you trying to say?

      March 16, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • momoya

      I had thought it was obvious.. Religion can get a person to act in ways that conflict with his core values.. See Abraham on the mount willing to murder his son.. See a native american killing a bird he loves in its living state more than in its dead state.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Bob

      catholic, no, patent examiners do not provide engineering accreditation, and further, any fool can get a US patent with enough money and an odd enough idea. Your claim re proof of engineering competence from that is not granted.

      More on topic though, the butchery of animals is in fact explicitly demanded by your religion; the bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
  19. T.I.N.G.

    Grace is when we thank God for providing us with food rather than giving it to the thousands of people that will die of starvation. We are Gods favorites. Yay!!!

    March 16, 2012 at 9:48 am |
  20. The law of sacrifice has since been replaced by Grace

    Some cultures still make sacrifices to appease their gods ?!?!?!

    March 16, 2012 at 9:25 am |
    • Bob

      Grace who? Grace slick? Seriously, if you are trying to make that claim about the Christian supersti-tion, look again. Jesus said in Matthew that all the old laws still apply, including those gory instructions for animal sacrifice. The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • Bob of Hope

      Divine Grace is God’s unmerited favor.
      Divine Grace is taught as God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense … GRACE

      While the Law is the standard of righteousness, grace is the source of righteousness.
      The principle of grace is as fundamental to Christianity as that of justice is to Law.

      Christianity cannot be understood apart from an adequate grasp of grace. The doctrine of grace distinguishes the Christian faith from every other religion in the world, as well as from the cults.

      Riches in Divine Grace as found in the scriptures and also in the book of Ephesians 1.3-3.21

      March 16, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • American Eagle

      The highest sacrifice and price has already been paid by Christ at the cross for you and I. You are no longer required to make blood sacrifices.

      March 16, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Bob

      American Eagle, sorry to inform you, but your post is total bullcr@p. And even if your claim were true (it plainly isn't), you still have to ask why those horrid instructions were ever put in there in the first place. Furthermore, if you disagree with my interpretation, then one has to ask how it is that a god can't get its word out in ways that can be so differently interpreted. Seems your sky fairy has a mar-comm department weakness, among his many other flaws. Read and try to understand:

      First, Jesus said in Matthew that all the old laws still apply. That includes those gory instructions for animal sacrifice. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Bob

      American Eagle, sorry to inform you, but your post is total bullcr@p. And even if your claim were true (it plainly isn't), you still have to ask why those horrid instructions were ever put in there in the first place. Furthermore, if you disagree with my interpretation, then one has to ask how it is that a "god" can't get its word out in ways that aren't vulnerable to being so differently interpreted. Seems your sky fairy has a mar-comm department weakness, among his many other flaws. Read and try to understand:

      First, Jesus said in Matthew that all the old laws still apply. That includes those gory instructions for animal sacrifice. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Hopeful Bob

      Seek the truth my friend , don't live in bondage. Come to the light and seek and you will surely find as the scriptures say. Being wilfully blind is your choice.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • American Eagle

      Nope, we no longer live by the law of sin and death, in Christ the greatest price has already been paid for the remission of sins.
      Welcome to the new covenant of divine grace in Christ Jesus.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • SPA Knight

      Bob – Christ became the sacrificial lamb as an atonement of sins to do away with animal sacrifices. Remember Jesus was a Jew and at the last supper he was celebrating Passover with his disciples. It is at this point that he redefined the covenant and he, as the son of God, became the sacrifice. Jesus gave bread to his friends and said "this is my body, given up for you" and the cup of wine became his blood. Later, his body was broken (just like the bread) and his blood was shed (like the cup) for our sakes. Today, we celebrate Eucharist (the new passover) because Jesus command us to in scripture.

      March 16, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Bob

      SPA Knight, no, you get an epic fail on that claim. Read Matthew. Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But again, why and how could an omnipotent being actually sacrifice anything, or need to? The idiotic bullcr@p that you've fallen for in your Christian supersti-tion is stunning.

      The bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • Guest

      Bob. Enough!!. We all get that you can copy and paste .Stop writing the same nonsense over and over again. You know absolutely nothing about the bible and you're sounding desperate to get people to believe your stupid ideas. Not to mention your way off topic.

      March 16, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • Bob

      Nope, gutless guest, you coward. Actually, what I am presenting is straight from your sick bible and you clearly can't refute it. It is quite on topic because the subject is animal sacrifice required by relition. Read it again, and respond in detail or just go away:

      The bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 16, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
    • Daniel

      Bob, I'm sorry but you are wrong with your interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount. You are correct in saying that Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law or prophets, but you left out the important part about Jesus coming to fulfill instead of abolish. Remember the rest of the sermon? "You have heard that it was said to an older generation, 'Do not murder,' and 'whoever murders will be subjected to judgement.' But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgement." Then there's the famous ones about instead of eye for an eye you turn the other cheek and let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The Jewish scribes taught on the authority of other experts, but Jesus taught on his own authority.

      March 16, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • Bob

      Wow, Daniel, way to miss the point, stupid. Here we go again. Refute it or just go away:

      What I am presenting is straight from your sick bible. The subject is animal sacrifice required by your religion very explicitly in Leviticus. Read it again, and respond in detail or just go away:

      The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 17, 2012 at 6:59 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.