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March 15th, 2012
10:33 PM ET
Feds grant Native American tribe permit to kill bald eagles for religious purposesBy Eric Fiegel, CNN Washington (CNN) - It's the symbol of America, and for the first time, the U.S. government has granted a Native American tribe a permit to kill two bald eagles for religious purposes. The permit application was filed in 2008 by the Northern Arapaho Tribe in Wyoming and, after years of review, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued it on March 9.
"They did make a case for why the take of a bird from the wild was necessary," Matt Hogan, Denver regional director for the Fish and Wildlife Service, told CNN. Last year, the tribe filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging the federal government for denying the application, saying it "unreasonably burdens the religious rights of tribal members," court documents stated. The case is pending. Hogan, who was in charge of granting the permit, says the lawsuit was not the reason the permit got approved when it did. He says it took time to make sure all the criteria were met and that the permit was in accordance with the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, which allows bald eagles to be used by Native Americans in religious ceremonies. The eagle "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator," said Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians. Holden said he was bothered by the comments he was hearing: that this permit would lead to a mass killing of bald eagles. "How stupid can that be?" he said. "It's a religion. It's what we do. We're more concerned about the eagle population than any culture in this Western Hemisphere. Why would we want to kill all the eagles?" Hogan said the permit's issuance will have little effect on the powerful raptor. Taking two eagles from the wild "will not in any way jeopardize the status of the eagle population, either in the state of Wyoming or nationwide," he said, "and the good news is bald eagles are doing quite well." That wasn't the case some 70 years ago, when the species was threatened with extinction, leading Congress to pass a law prohibiting the killing, selling or possession of the bird. In 2007, the bald eagle was removed from the threatened and endangered species list. Hogan said applications for a permit to kill or capture a bald eagle are rare. Native Americans often have to get bald eagle feathers for their ceremonies from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife national feather repository in Denver. Hogan said it can take years for the tribes to get the feathers this way, because demand often exceeds supply. Holden, who is part Choetaw/Shickasaw, sought to put some perspective on the situation: "If someone ordered a Bible or some religious artifact and they had to wait for a long time, how fair is that?" The permit is good until February 2013, and Hogan said he knows of no other applications being filed. As part of permit, the tribe has to notify the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service within 24 hours once the bald eagles are killed or captured. Hogan said he is still waiting for that word. soundoff (1,883 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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NATIVE AMERICANS ARE NOT ATHEIST,THEY BELIEVE THAT SPIRIT RUNS THRU THE DIVINE GIFTS OF ALL LIFE'S BREATH, THERFORE NOT CUTTING THEM OFF FROM ANY LIVING THING, IF THIS NATIVE AMERICAN MAN,IS DOING PRAYERS AND THEY ARE NOT WORKING, IT IS HIS OWN SOUL,THAT HAS BEEN FRACTIONATED FROM ALL THAT IS DIVINE,THRU MOTHER EARTHS GIFTS, ALL SACRED BREATH, OF ANIMAL KINGDOMS, RIVERS AND THE SEA, DOLPHINS AND WHALES, ARE KEEPERS OF THE DIVINE WISDOM FROM OUR ANCESTORS,IF YOU ARE DIS-CONNECTED FROM ALL THAT IS,YOU ARE DISCONNECTED,MIND, BODY AND SOUL,YOU ARE A FRACTIONATED SOUL,NATIVE TRIBES HAVE SOLD THERE SOULS FOR GREED, AND DIS HONORED OUR WAYS, BOUGHT INTO CIA/CASINOS AND RACE TRACKS WITH THE GOV,BUT THERE ARE STILL NATIVE OUT THERE THAT LIVE IN POVERTY THAT DON'T LIVE THRU RACE TRACKS AND ABUSE, AND THE TROTURES OF THUNDERBEINGS/SACRED HORSES,WE ARE THE GHOSTDANCERS AND WE ARE ONE WITH ALL LIFE'S BREATH, WE DON'T KILL ANYTHING,THE BEES AND GRANDFATHER TREES ARE ALL SACREDNESS,EARTH MOTHER WEEPS, FOR MANKIND HAS GONE IN-SANE,HE /SHE LIVES BLIND,AND UN-KIND,SLAUGHTER HOUSES ARE NOT A PART OF OUR BELIEFS, COWS AND CALFS ARE REPRESENTATION OF FEMININE NURTURING WHICH IS MISSING ON EARTH MOTHERS CHILDREN,NOW , HOW MANY OF YOU ARE ASSISTING IN TORTURES AND SSLAUGHTER HOUSES,EATING ANIMAL IS CANNIBAL, IF YOU EAT MEAT, YOU ASSIST IN THE WORST TORTURES MANKIND CAN AND DOES INFLICT UPON OUR SACRED ANIMAL KINGDOMS,MANKIND HAS CREATED HIS OWN HELL,OKCHA MAHLI 2012 GHOSTDANCERS
Prayer changes things
Proven
Powerful
More lies on top of more lies. You've been proven a liar over and over again on this blog. A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested Friday morning...
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!! .. .. .. ... .. .
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE, AND GOES AGAINST ALL UNIVERSAL LAWS, MANKIND HAS SOMEHOW LOST HIS SENSES OF ALL SACREDNESS, LIVING AS A FRACTIONATED SOUL,IMBALANCED IS OUR PLANET NOW, EARTH MOTHER IS CRYING, HER CHILDREN ARE DIEING,OKCHA MAHLI,THE SACRED EAGLES ARE MESSENGERS OF THE HEAVENS, AS IF WE DON'T NEED THOSE MESSAGES DESPERATELY ALLREADY,HUMANS ARE BLIND, THEY DO NOT LIVE KIND,LEAVING A PATH OF TORTURES ON EARTH MOTHERS CHILDREN,IT IS BEYOND HUMAN CONCIOUSNESS TO SEE SACREDNESS OF ALL THAT IS,GHOSTDANCERS
Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things
how convenient, now I won't have to go to work tomorrow. Thanks, you've solved all my problems.
"Prayer changes things"
You've been proven a liar over and over again on this blog. A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested Friday morning...
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!! .. .. .. ...
what a dumb thing to say, when this article is about giving people the right to kill 2 innocent beautiful creatures to further a religiuos belief! sounds like religion IS pretty unhealthy to a living thing.
Prayer really changes things .
You've been proven a liar over and over again on this blog. A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested Friday morning...
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!!
<>
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
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1But The Spirit speaks plainly that in the last time they shall depart one by one from the faith and they shall go after deceiving spirits and after the teachings of demons, 2These persons who deceive by false appearances and speak lies and sear their consciences; 3And they forbid to be married and they abstain from foods which God has created for use and thanksgiving for those who believe and know the truth. 4For every creation is beautiful to God, and there is nothing to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and by prayer.
Great, so now if God would only come around every once in a while and update some of this stuff He said, in plain English (or ANY of the current languages used on Earth), so that we could ALL understand, then we wouldn't need a bunch of self-serving jingos re-interpretting it for their personal advantages.
Millions of turkeys, chickens, cows, etc. are raised and killed in very inhumane ways every year in the US. And yet you guys are in an uproar over a sovereign nation, trying to practice their supposed religious freedom, who will kill 2 birds in a very humane and respectful way.
I am personally against the killing of all animals. But I think that all of you who are so upset over this need to focus your efforts elsewhere. I sense a little too much hypocrisy here.
i saw a dead skunk in the road today. u know what i did not see. one of these people raging about the eagle. u know why? they dont think its pretty so it doesnt really come into their protest. give me a break they are no endangered and u all are two faced to think because its pretty it wrong. how many of u eat turkey this year? it came in as a close second to the eagle as the national bird. think about that when u pass the turkey around the table. its not going to stop me from eating it. if dont want any animal to be killed stop eating meat, take off ur cloths made from animals and have fun starving in the cold
Umm, what? Did this post make sense to you when you wrote it? Turkeys are raised in factory farms for a profit. They're sold as meat because people like to eat them. On what farms are eagles raised, dimwit?
Post by MR is an instance of a Slippery Slope fallacy.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#H6
I agree 100%!
Wow, Daniel, way to miss the point. Here we go again. Refute it or just go away:
What I am presenting is straight from your sick bible. The subject is animal sacrifice required by your religion very explicitly in Leviticus. Read it again, and respond in detail or just go away:
The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Over a century ago our ancestors nearly killed off all their buffalo which was revered by the Native Americans much as the Bald Eagle is to us today. At the time our ancestors didn't ask permission from the Natives or even seek permits from them to kill the buffalo, they just went ahead and did it. The Native Americans depended on the buffalo for food, clothing, and ceremonial purposes. The animal's bones were used to make weapons as well. The Native Americans didn't kill animals for sport, any animal they killed had some special purpose, value, or meaning to them. Tell me how is killing one or two Eagles going to affect how we live? Yes it's our national symbol, but it is not something we depend on daily for food or clothing the way the Natives did with the buffalo that we nearly wiped out to extinction. They aren't looking to kill off the entire population of Eagles either which they also revere since they use their feathers for ceremonial/religious purposes. Read the article. Also, feathers to Native Americans are sacred much like the cross is to Christians. The Natives also never take more from nature then nature itself is able to replenish which is why they see themselves as caretakers of the Earth.
Well said.
Somehow, I wasn't able to see the top of my screen and I was thinking I was posting on a San Antonio site. Now, I see it is the CNN Belief Blog and it is suppose to be about the faith angles of the stories. Oh Dear! Okay, I can sure do that. This is why one shouldn't get in a big hurry in posting. I hope I can join in from that angle in other conversations. Meanwhile, following this and exploring it out, has helped me find the Cherokee/Blackfeet Nation. Thank You.
Looking at other news reports about this same permit, it is said that The Native Americans, hope to apply to get more than just two. It is stated that "two are not insufficient for the 9,600 " in the one tribe. And, looking further, it is found that at Powwows, during the Grand Entry, The Eagle Staff, positioned above the American flag to signify the first nation, is tied to the pole in the center or brought to the announcer's stand. The dancing then begins. In these dances veterans are honored. I ask what is wrong with this picture? The Feds permitting the eagle feathers to be taken and used to be put ABOVE the American flag, just for starters....and later in the ceremony honoring of veterans....... so, this is wrong...you can't have it two ways....just don't have the American flag....DO NOT place a eagle feather staff ABOVE the American flag.
Correction:
[Tribal leaders said the permit, which can be renewed yearly, is "a start" but two eagles are insufficient to meet the needs of the 9,600 Northern Arapahos in west-central Wyoming.] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/18/us-wyoming-baldeagles-idUSBRE82G0B920120318
[After the grand entry there is a flag song, then an invocation blessing the gathering. The Eagle Staff, positioned above the American flag to signify the first nation, is tied to the pole in the center or brought to the announcer's stand. The dancing then begins.] Well, this is about the Dakotas and the Lakotas....while y'all Bible Bash, I'll go look and see if I can find out about the practices of the Northern Arapahoes....could use some help.
http://www.bluecloud.org/culture.html
Search: Northern Arapaho Sun Dance outlawed in 1904
What are the eagle feathers being used for, in what way.......did anyone think to just ask? I have loads of questions about it and no answers...maybe someone can freelance and go get answers for us....
If each one wants one for their prayers, can you imagine how many that will be? And, then it will be the thing about, "Well, if you allowed them, then you are discriminating against me, if you do not allow me...."...Here's a report about a man, who beat his 22 month old daughter to death, being given his eagle feathers....................uh.....when did we cross over the line into just plain crazy? http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4028&Itemid=72
[Pevar said the Wyoming State Penitentiary generally allows American Indian prisoners to have three feathers, but said Yellowbear has been limited to one feather. Prison officials confiscated that single feather after Yellowbear filed his federal lawsuit in January, according to Pevar.] THREE........................
Clydene,
I applaud you for asking the right question. What is the intent? I don't agree with killing for religious reasons, no matter what culture or species, but by knowing the intent of the action we can determine whether this action is being done out of ignorance, or is there deliberate dark intentions. By asking permission, the Tribe just defaulted much of the responsibility of the action to our government. But, then again, by us requiring them to ask permission, started this shift of responsibility.
These people must need to be watered twice a week just to keep them alive. Send them to Afghanistan. They will fit right in.
Is nothing sacred anymore? Can I sacrifice humans for my religion? If I can't I feel people hold others lives sacred well I feel bald eagles lives are more sacred.
this is dumb. the eagle is our national bird. its important to america. now at the end of the story it said since he has given the perment he has not heard a word from the natives. for all he knows they could be killing more than 2 birds. the court did not think at all. but this is my opinion.
Payback for all the buffalo, perhaps?
There are two ways to look at this the eagles are a symbol of this great nation and religious symbol for the native Indians. Who are we to judge, as far I can remember they have always be part of nature and its environment not the other way around. I'm certain careful monitoring will not diminish the eagle population in the wild.
Killing for religious purposes? That just adds more credence to the significant stupidity of all religions.
=============================================================================
Indeed. Of course, the bloody Christian bible also demands sacrifice, and in fact the Christian supersti-tion is worse than this Indian one driving the eagle sacrifice in that regard. Christians need to ask themselves, why did a supposedly loving deity put such explicit, horrid instructions for sacrifice in the bible at all, at any point in time, before or after Jeebus? Note that that same bible also explicitly promotes slavery, and bible god apparently issues instructions for murder and rape. What a horrid book, and what a horrid religion.
The points that I am presenting are straight from the bible. One subject is the animal sacrifices required by the Christian god according to the bible, very explicitly so in Leviticus. Another is the gory stuff in Numbers. Read it yourselves. What a pathetic excuse for a "loving" god.
The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell purportedly makes your Christian god happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Bob, obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. yes, there were sacrifices in the old testament, but the Christian god came in human for and let himself be slaughtered in the worst imaginable way so that nothing else would have to die. he was the last sacrifice, he wasn't calling for more. And thats why he is a loving god, because he killed himself instead of allowing the rest of the world to suffer. Oh, and the reason it is so explicit and gory is because our crimes are that much worse than their sacrificial rituals. And you think they were bad? other religions during that time period were burning their children alive to appease their gods.
Nope, 'get smart', poor choice of a handle for yourself that you've made. You are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. I'm using specific content from your Christian book of nasty, a.ka.the bible. Your horrid bible has very explicit demands by your god that you to sacrifice and burn animals regularly, and for you to murder and rape, and allowing you to keep slaves. You must know that content is in there, or else you haven't read e.g. Leviticus and Numbers. Look it up.
Part of what I am asking you to consider is why a loving god would ever put such horrid demands in there, and furthermore, how an omnipotent being could possibly 'sacrifice' in any way when it can just pop its dead son back up with a snap of its fingers, or less, anyway. The answer is that your whole religion is a fairy tale, nothing more.
The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell purportedly makes your Christian god happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Be free of religion in 2012.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Actually, it is the Old Testament that lists the god-approved atrocities:
To wit:
•Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
•Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)
•Joshua: ◦Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
◦Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
◦Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
◦TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
•Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
•Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
•Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
•Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
•1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
•David: ◦2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
◦2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
◦2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
•1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
•2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
•2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
•2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
•TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Old Testament/Torah.
The New Testament has only one major atrocity, that of god committing filicide assuming you believe in this Christian mumbo jumbo. Said atrocity should be enough to vitiate all of Christianity.
Then there is this: ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
We live in the U.S. if it's not causing harm to anyone or bringing an animal close to extinction. I say who cares. The Native Americans(Asians) should be granted more after the conquering of their land.
What is this ? Animal Sacrifice ? Stupid Natives are as stupid as any other religious groups.
Aren't you occupying their land? You are one vicious racist.
To all those who want to give their homes and properties back to the American Indian sav-ages, go for it !!
You first.
But, Reality, would you have a problem giving it to illegal aliens who snuck in under a fence?
@Ugly American: It's actually not their land. Look up Kennewick Man. His skull structure and bone structure are Europid in shape. Basically, he was here thousands of years before the "natives," so it's really European land.
@Godspeople. I really must bite my tongue and limit my disappointment in your understanding of anthropological history to a few quick words.
Don't be ignorant of history simply to concoct some story of superiority. Native Americans came from Asia over the bearing land bridge between 25-30,000 years ago, fact. Kennewick man is not of European origin.
Secondly. I am really disappointed by how intolerant and bigoted so many people are. This story isn't about the bible or comparing one cultures atrocities to another in hopes of finding some sort of justification for someone's actions. It's about people, whoever they may be, being allowed to freely practice their religion, without fear of persecution.
There is religious freedom in this country, I think we should embrace that. Maybe you don't agree with everything that a particular religious group does, so what? Is it harming you, is it hurting you, does it prevent you from living the life you want? Probably not, so let it go. After everything intolerance has destroyed in our world, for generations mind you, try and be a better person, step back and see the bigger picture. Maybe then we can live in a world free of intolerance
I stepped back and this is some of what I found:
ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS:
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
Some history:
Prayer changes things .
Stop living in the Bronze Age.
You are too far gone, your were stupid to begin with and hence easily "brainwashed. "
Did you understand anything in your science class ? Or did you just skip school and stay in a TEEPEE !
Yes it does !
You don't even know when the "bronze age" began unless you look it up you phrase dropping moron.
Science is a gift God gave to mankind.
@Gethetruth "TEEPEE"? Are you a racist or what? You denigrate an entire native peoples because you disagree with prayer?
@An inconvenient truth, LOL. Yep, just a bunch of apes sitting around one day when the big black monolith appeared, eh?
The Bronze Age is being generous. The creation myth and "patriarchs" took place during the Stone Age, based on the current Jewish year 5772. According to Genesis, Cain had relations with his wife (wherever SHE came from) and moved to the fictional land of Nod, then "founded" a city he named for his son, Enoch. A city with only three inhabitants? Since the historical city of Ur predates the Jewish year, well, that pretty much cinches it. Widespread, but not total, flooding in 2900 BCE occurred in the region, based on a sediment layer, and many, but not all, settlements were affected. This is likely the event that was attributed to Noah, who might have built a raft to save his family and livestock, and the tale grew taller as time went on, as things in oral traditions usually do. The flood became global, the raft became an ark, and his animals became "all of creation". The Sumerians had issues with judging time, as well, as kings in one dynasty would rule for years and decades, while rulers in the next would rule for centuries and millenia. It's a good thing that modern man developed radiocarbon dating to keep things straight!
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!!!
moron
"moron"
Now we can both agree that "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things" is a moron oops but you are one in the same...so that mean you're a moron too.
More proof prayer doesn't work....An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
70 years ago? Wow, that's about the same time that "God" got his name put on the dollar bill... any connection?