March 21st, 2012
02:28 PM ET
Denver Christians mourn Tebow’s departure, say they’ll root from afar
By Dan Merica, CNN
(CNN) – When star quarterback Peyton Manning signed with the Denver Broncos this week, Denver pastor Jim Mackey signed at the thought that Tim Tebow probably wouldn’t be wearing Broncos blue and orange next season. The Broncos don’t need two star quarterbacks and the New York Jets announced Wednesday that Tebow is now theirs.
“It was a topic of conversation last night,” Mackey said in a phone interview Wednesday, describing Tuesday night services at his Next Level Church.
“It is an emotional thing and a bit more emotional for people who have connected with Tebow’s expression of faith,” Mackey said. “Rather than just a QB controversy, which is not unique in the NFL, this does seem to have hit more of a personal nerve for those in the Christian community.”
Mackey’s church meets Tuesday nights, not Sunday mornings, because Mackey believes Sunday is a day for people to do Colorado things – skiing, hiking and Broncos games.
Tebow, who helped turn the bottom-dwelling Broncos into a playoff team last year, transcended sports with his overt professions of faith and his late game heroics, which led some to believe that God was on the young quarterback’s side.
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Throughout the season, Tebow’s jersey was flying off the racks and “Tebowing” – the act of getting down on one knee and praying while everyone around you does something else – became to be an internet meme and widely recognized symbol. Tebow quickly became the public face of FRS Company and Jockey; for months, it was hard to click on ESPN without hearing his name.
“Tim Tebow seems to have won the hearts of not only football fans in Denver but the people here at large,” said Rob Brendle, pastor at the evangelical Denver United Church. “One of the most exciting aspects of last season was that casual sports fans and those who aren’t even interested in football, like my wife, became captivated by the influence of Tim Tebow.”
“Around the water cooler and in church, there is sadness at the likelihood of his departure,” Brendle said, a few hours before the Jets announcement.
Though Tebow cashed in with endorsements, he also lent his face and celebrity to causes he believed in, many in the Denver area. Like many players, Tebow invited individual fans to his games. In his last game with the Broncos, a playoff face-off with quarterback Tom Brady and the New England Patriots, Tebow hugged Kelly Faughnan, a 22-yard old female who had been diagnosed with a brain tumor and whom the Tebow Foundation had invited to the game.
Brendle said that Tebow showed that you can be both good at sports and good at giving back.
“It is hard not to cheer for the Christian kid,” Brendle said.
Jim Daly, president of the Colorado Springs-based evangelical group Focus on the Family, teamed up with Tebow for antiabortion Super Bowl ad last year. The spot illustrated how comfortable Tebow is trumpeting his Christian beliefs, even on a polarizing issue.
“I think there is going to be this period of mourning for Tim Tebow’s departure,” Daly said. “I think that that affection that people have for Tebow goes well beyond Denver and his ability to play football.”
Daly says Focus still hopes to work with Tebow in the future.
“Regardless of where he is, he is a national celebrity and it would be great to work with him again – even if he is in New York,” Daly said.
Matthew Ware, Executive and Worship Pastor at Victory Church in Denver, said Tebow fans were hoping for the quarterback to stay local even after the Manning announcement.
“I think most people were hoping for a "both/and" instead of an "either/or" situation,” Ware said. “We love the idea that perhaps Manning could ‘disciple’ Tebow into greatness in the next few years.”
Many believers in Denver will now have to balance being a Broncos fan with rooting for a New York-based Tebow.
“Tebowmania has a magnetism and loyalty that's undeniable,” Ware said. “While most people will ultimately support their home team, once in a while a player comes along that wins your heart. Tebow is that kind of player. He'll have Denver fans no matter where he plays.”
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
I had to mutilate my feet because I can't untie my shoelaces.
Whatever happens, as long as your trust is in Jesus Christ, in the end, it's going to be OK.
"Whatever happens, as long as your trust is in Jesus Christ"
It wont' do any good. An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” John 16
"“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” John 16"
Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.
Hey Chad, do you still believe in the talking snake theory of galactic formation?
Jesus "... deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995...would most likely have survived if they had received medical care."
=>tragically many well meaning Christians struggle to understand the difference between trust and presumption. Without minimizing the tragedy of those death's:
"A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."
Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."
With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.""
Or, to put Chad's point another way, God will forever hide. He will be just out of reach, around the next corner. Just likebigfoot and pixies, the most intriguing things have to forever remain elusive,
Chad telling a really poor joke doesn't make your point, it only shows you have no proof and your opinion is not based on facts. Wow are you a heartless S O B.
@Poser/Colin "... no proof... "
sigh.. as always, the atheist answer algorithm works for every situation eh?
1. Atheist “science isn't discarding any evidence of God, there just isnt any”
2. Creationist “well, what about the origin of the universe, the fact that the universe obeys laws, the origins of life on this earth, the fact that the largest “gaps” in the fossil record correspond exactly with the organisms identified in the bible as being created by God, namely fish, birds, land animals and humans ”
3. Atheist “We don’t know how to explain those things. The supernatural is by definition beyond nature and therefore beyond investigation by science. As utterly improbable as it is, our only answer at this point is to say it’s possible that all of those things just popped out of nothing via random combination of molecules”
4. Creationist “Well, if you don’t have an answer for these fundamental events to begin with, and your only explanation is to posit the possibility of the utterly improbable time and time again, by what basis are you discarding the possibility of a force external to our universe?”
5. Atheist: “Please go to step #1
The atheist is willing to admit that she doesn't know the "origin" of some physical laws and what not, that admission of what we don't know is what drives us to keep asking questions and discovering more about the universe.. Atheists don't know the how or why of the whole thing and we admit it.. You cover it up by supposing a magical being that doesn't provide one bit of evidence.. It doesn't make you special, any person can do it, and that's why there have been all sorts of gods believed in for the past 100,000 years or more.. But yeah, yours is the right one, sure.
Random combination of molecules? Who said anything about it being random? Tell me what do you know of evolution? The laws that make up the evolutionary theory, the thoughts behind a transitional fossil, and the progression of life on this planet as science puts forth based on evidence and massive amounts of testing and retesting? Science may not know everything, but at least those who study science do not claim to know that which they cannot.
Colin's arguments are akin to a dog chasing its own tail.
That's because colin's arguments have a built in feature that blocks those below a certain IQ.. It's supposed to look like the firefox logo, but you say it looks like a dog, huh?. Thanks for the feedback!
@momoya "The atheist is willing to admit that she doesn't know the "origin" of some physical laws and what not, . Atheists don't know the how or why of the whole thing and we admit it.."
=>Dont sell yourself to short, atheists know a great deal, it's acknowledging it that's the problem..
– atheists know that our universe cant be infinite in the past, and that it had a beginning where time, space, and all the matter in the universe came into being (remember, atheists also know that Krauss has acknowledged that his "universe from nothing" mischaraterization of nothing doesnt posit conditions prior to the big bang)
– atheists know that by definition science can never ever explain why the laws of the universe exist, as their very discipline is predicated on their existence.
– atheists know that an extraordinary amount about the complexity of the first life form, and how astronomically improble it would be for that to just come into being spontaneously:
In order for the principles of mutation and natural selection in the theory of evolution to work, there have to be living things for them to work on. Life must exist before it can to start diversifying. Life had to come from somewhere, and the theory of evolution proposes that it arose spontaneously out of the inert chemicals of planet Earth perhaps 4 billion years ago.
Could life arise spontaneously? If you read How Cells Work, you can see that even a primitive cell like an E. coli bacteria - one of the simplest life forms in existence today - is amazingly complex. Following the E. coli model, a cell would have to contain at an absolute minimum:
A cell wall of some sort to contain the cell
A genetic blueprint for the cell (in the form of DNA)
An enzyme capable of copying information out of the genetic blueprint to manufacture new proteins and enzymes
An enzyme capable of manufacturing new enzymes, along with all of the building blocks for those enzymes
An enzyme that can build cell walls
An enzyme able to copy the genetic material in preparation for cell splitting (reproduction)
An enzyme or enzymes able to take care of all of the other operations of splitting one cell into two to implement reproduction (For example, something has to get the second copy of the genetic material separated from the first, and then the cell wall has to split and seal over in the two new cells.)
Enzymes able to manufacture energy molecules to power all of the previously mentioned enzymes
Obviously, the E. coli cell itself is the product of billions of years of evolution, so it is complex and intricate - much more complex than the first living cells. Even so, the first living cells had to possess:
A cell wall
The ability to maintain and expand the cell wall (grow)
The ability to process "food" (other molecules floating outside the cell) to create energy
The ability to split itself to reproduce
Otherwise, it is not really a cell and it is not really alive. To try to imagine a primordial cell with these capabilities spontaneously creating itself, it is helpful to consider some simplifying assumptions. For example:
Perhaps the original energy molecule was very different from the mechanism found in living cells today, and the energy molecules happened to be abundant and free-floating in the environment. Therefore, the original cell would not have had to manufacture them.
Perhaps the chemical composition of the Earth was conducive to the spontaneous production of protein chains, so the oceans were filled with unimaginable numbers of random chains and enzymes.
Perhaps the first cell walls were naturally forming lipid spheres, and these spheres randomly entrapped different combinations of chemicals.
Perhaps the first genetic blueprint was something other than DNA.
These examples do simplify the requirements for the "original cell," but it is still a long way to spontaneous generation of life. Perhaps the first living cells were completely different from what we see today, and no one has yet imagined what they might have been like. Speaking in general terms, life can only have come from one of two possible places:
Spontaneous creation – Random chemical processes created the first living cell.
Supernatural creation – God or some other supernatural power created the first living cell.
And it doesn't really matter if aliens or meteorites brought the first living cell to earth, because the aliens would have come into existence through either spontaneous creation or supernatural creation at some point - something had to create the first alien cells.
Most likely, it will be many years before research can completely answer any of the three questions mentioned here. Given that DNA was not discovered until the 1950s, the research on this complicated molecule is still in its infancy, and we have much to learn.
source: how stuff works com
Not knowing something means you don't know it; it doesn't mean that a magic unicorn or a god did it.. Just because something looks really nifty doesn't mean a made up answer is (god) is the correct answer.. When you have proof for your god, you won't be debating on boards like this one, and you know it.. You don't have proof for your god and neither does anyone else... That's why you're able to still debate god's existence–it's not be settled.
Chad, from your 10:48 pm post, it's obvious that you are no scientist. Stick to your day job and stop spouting things you barely understand. They are full of inaccuracies and some poor assumptions.
@momoya: "Not knowing something means you don't know it;"
@Chad "Just as paleontologists for 120 years ascribed all failures of the data to support phyletic gradualism to imperfections in the record, so do atheists now typically run and hide behind the "we dont know" excuse when ever confronted with evidence that points to God. "We dont know" really means, "we know, but havent been able to figure out how it was done completely naturalistically yet, so we'll just say we dont know rather than acknowledge where the data clearly points""
@AGuest9 "[Chad, what you post is] full of inaccuracies and some poor assumptions"
@Chad "such as?"
More hate from cnn. Tebow is great! Not easy to do those things so early in the NFL so i give him that.
By all acoounts, Tim Tebow is a genuine, nice guy. Great QB ? No. His stats simply don't match the hype, which is certainly not his fault. He has a tremendous amount of learning to do at the pro level – don't be surprised to see him at a new position in 2 years.
Seems a fairly easy thing to do .....kneel on one knee ....mumble to yourself or your imaginary friend .....stand up again....it's simple even a child could do it....my grandaughter does it all the time.
TIm just needs to work on his throwing motion, hard work is what will make that happen.
mickey1313 wrote on Wednesday, March 21, 2012 at 8:24 pm, stating to Atheism is not healty the following, "you are wrong atheism is the best course of thought, and prayer hurts people mind body and soul. To surender your power is the ultimate sin."
I agree that prayers are mostly unhealthy mickey especially when not thought thru before making them. I for one do believe in a God of utmost supremacy. I also believe that God has many Sons and yes, even many Daughters as in Genesis is made mention of God's Sons. The treasure troves of long ago lst writings does little to bring light upon Times' passing of Godliness and its' many generations of God's Sons and Daughters. Just as our societies will never fully be either completely religious and/or completely athiest, we all ought to learn to live with others who are not applicable to one's views. Is this too much to pandor?
"ust as our societies will never fully be either completely religious and/or completely athiest, we all ought to learn to live with others who are not applicable to one's views. Is this too much to pandor?"
The problem comes down when it comes to making laws that govern us all. Look at the gay issue, abortion, etc, even though experts have shown truths about them the Christians refuse to believe it and take their bible literally. It's why this cult needs to die and people need to live in the reality of today.
Nah, the problem arises when anyone imagines PD to be anything but a brainless troll.
"too much to pandor"?
Go beat off on your mom's panties, dear, and get your ya-yas out.
What, are you 16, and can't get a girlfriend?
Tom's favourite pasttime is ' getting it up' and 'getting it down'.
shame on broncos for doing what they did to tebow. shame!
Why? He was an average QB.
This isn't an article or debate about christianity or whether gods exist. It's about a fan base feeling the impending loss of one they see a great and personal connection with.
I'm an atheist from Indiana that doesn't watch sports but even I feel their loss. This young man had the best season of his young career and he's getting sidelined for a name. Manning doesn't even have current ability. His resume was more impressive than Tebow's, it's that simple. This will turn out to be a mistake on the part of the Bronco's franchise.
every choice the broncos makes is the wrong one, they are an awful team, and have always been, only elway ever did anything good with them.
Idolatrous. idolotrous, idolitrous infatuation is mired with heathenistic malware giving rise to contested popularities of opinionations becoming holy clusters of infidelitarianism. Yeppers!!!!! 🙂
So impressive. For a kindergarten kid.
The sideshow moves from one circus to another.
Prayer changes things
Your subject is incorrect, and your statement is even more incorrect.
you are wrong atheism is the best course of thought, and prayer hurts people mind body and soul. To surender your power is the ultimate sin
- You've been proven a liar over and over again on this blog. A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested Friday morning...
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!! .. .. .. ... .. .
Only one living "thing" we know of has what we can refer to as religion, man. No other living thing does. Your subject is arrogant in the least. Ignorant and not thought out most likely.
Prayer does change things in the sense that an individual's request/want is intended to gain the attention of a higher power. It can and often does leave an individual with a sense of relief or worth. This can be argued as "transferrence" in psychology. Passing on your stress to someone else has proven to work to relief tention and stress.
I believe prayer does work, just not for the reasons it is used.
a person of the Name wrote on Wednesday, March 21, 2012 at 5:50 pm, writing, "The Bible spoke of a "great falling away" but I have noticed that while some churchs struggle others are growing at a rapid rate."
From what high place are you looking down from to notice such things?
From the head of the pimple on your azz.
Oh get a life....every single one of you. Big deal. So he will just be picking up his gazillion dollar paycheck someplace else..and for what? Kicking a stupid ball around and than showering with a bunch of other duffas's.
Have some cheese with that WHINE!
Has anyone here actually read the article. It’s not talking about whether Tim Tebow is or isn’t a good football player. As I posted previously, It’s talking about why many of the people of Denver will miss Tim Tebow. He isn't a novelty but a sincere and caring young adult that wants to do more with his life than play football. When Christians pray, it isn’t always to “get what they want” but many times is for the strength to do their best and be thankful for their opportunities. When his football career is over, he will still be trying to make a difference in people’s lives without endorsements or commercials. Why do you have to insult his religion. It never ceases to amaze me how cynical and mean spirited people can be towards others.
fans are sad, because they are stupid thiests, and they actually thinks gods golden boy is bouncing. He is a hack, and got lucky, thats it, he doesnt have the talent for te NFL
the only ones that will miss him is the Christians ,because he is bringing the spot light in on him , that just makes getting the endorsements and commercials that much easer to get the big bucks for , you religious beliveres are so easy to buy into anything that some moron has said is gods will........look how much you guys will save when all the t=bow crap is gone...
But there are other peope out there who may or may not be Christians and may or may not play football. Why make Tebow an Idol? Why not find someone in your community like a teacher, garbage collector, architect, unemployed guy who has the same values as Tebow and are just as bold in their faith and highlight them?
Get down on knee and thank your god for the good. When something bad happens do you thank or condemn "him"? If you give thanks then it would be considered sickening by most. If you condemn then you'd be considered a blasphemer by fellow believers. So you probably take option three, just ignore the bad stuff with an indifferent "gods will" cop-out"
Hey Tebow! Jesus thinks you're a jackass! lol!
I miss him Christian or not. Elway has great points and I wish he would help Tebow more as an outstanding backup to Manning. Broncos are proud of Tebow.
not acording to what his team mates say, most do not like him
just sayin wrote on Wednesday, March 21, 2012 at 4:54 pm, saying, "Pipe-Dreamer
Maybe you can explain better how christianity is relevant today."
Christianized relevencies have never been openly applicable to today's timeline of worldly affairs. What human conditioning does to socialism has nothing to do with Godly impediments. As our being but mostly "Humane" creatures, we tend to fall away from the scriptural crossiing. Our subversivisms declare many slaves and slavemasters to be full of emotionalism and little soundness of cosmic reletivities We, as a race are this world's endtime's seeds of servitude. We will either live in harmony with the servicing our sphere'd bio-diversities or we will destroy it beyond its' ability to breech Life in the onward marching of Life evermore.
Much of Todays' Christiandoms seek profit and monetary rewards for their emotionalized messages to the slaves and slavedrivers and slavemasters. They aren't worthy of being being Christian,,, 🙁
Well then I guess we can say christianity peaked long ago and is on the slope down to the mythology shelf. Christianity is dying and doesn't realize it yet.
I've rarely seen some many words used to say so little!
Take 2.. so many words...
Toby, you want to see so many words say such little....read the bible
People of a shakes of Life will ever claw upon the religious totem poles seeking for this and searching for that, never really understanding to ebbs and flows regarding waters of Life.
People of all shakes of Life will ever claw upon the religious totem poles seeking for this and searching for that, never really understanding to ebbs and flows regarding waters of Life.
Toby,,,,U should have read my otherly posts a year or so ago here,,,, They were really filled with venerations of this said and that done parentheticals,,,,, 🙂
The Bible spoke of a "great falling away" but I have noticed that while some churchs struggle others are growing at a rapid rate.
Everybody wants to be me, I am not the just sayin who wrote that, i am however the original just sayin. God bless
Toby..if you've seen a rare post that has so many words used to say so little! w/ Pipe-Dreamer's, I tell you you haven't seen the worst yet. See all my post all over CNN and be amazed!
BTW, you're a steer!
Tebow may be a nice guy but this is just business. Tebow is gone based on the same principals that got him there in the first place. The better the Broncos do this next season the better the decision. And if the player generates more marque value then so must the better, but in the end it's making it to the playoffs that will determine how smart everyone is.
His value is hype, not talent. He would make a decent back up.
Everyone wants to be me !
No, really. NO ONE wants to be you.
this is why they are mourning!!!:/^^^^^^^
If that's all that Christian women in Denver do, is worry about where this rich young good looking hot Tim Tebow is playing football, the good lord will punish them for breaking a commandment or two!
From what I hear his team in Denver is not crying about this. He was not respected by his team and was quite annoying trying to tlak everybody into a bible study all the time. Perhaps God will bless him with real talent because he is below average.
Good job stealing someone's name
The troll copied my name and we are in a dispute. Please explain the basis of "theft" in regards to this matter.
Yes, i took the name first. God bless
Enough of this bantering. THERE IS NO GOD. RELIGION IS FOR THE WEAK OF MIND THAT NEED AN EXCUSE FOR NOT HAVING CONTROL OF THEIR LIVES. IF THINGS DON'T GO RIGHT, PRAY, IF THEY STILL DON'T GO RIGHT, GOD WANTED IT THAT WAY. WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!!!!
A desperate plea for help. Believers, Russ needs a Bible verse.
But when you pray everything does go right.
To be like Jesus I put on some diapers when I pray. Then I dance around in praise when I hear his voice.
Unfortunately before you dance you wrap your head in the soiled diaper. Everybody wants to be me. God bless