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March 22nd, 2012
06:36 PM ET
Atheist rally billed as 'coming out' moment for nonbelieversBy Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) – A coalition of atheist and secular organizations are coming together on Saturday to hold what is being billed at the largest gathering of atheists in history. David Silverman, chairman of the event committee and president of the American Atheists, said the rally is aimed at uniting atheist organizations and letting the religious know that there are nonbelievers among them. “We need to stress to the theists that we are here,” Silverman said. “Atheism is growing in all 50 states. What people don’t seem to understand is all we demand at American Atheists is equality.” Silverman initially told CNN that the rally would draw anywhere between 10,000 and 20,000 people to the National Mall, and the National Park Service has planned for 30,000 people. With thunderstorms forecast for Saturday, however, Silverman told CNN on Thursday that he expects somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 people. The cost of the event is around $300,000, Silverman said, but philanthropist Todd Stiefel, Founder of the Stiefel Freethought Foundation, is supplying half the money. CNN's Belief Blog – all the faith angles to the day's top stories The rally has been a catalyst for protests by the Westboro Baptist Church, a group well known for its picketing of funerals of American servicemen and servicewomen. Westboro Baptist has been granted a permit for the “grassy area between 14th and 15th” streets, according to Carol Johnson, a communications officer for the National Park Service. Though a press release for the reason rally touts 17 groups planning to protest, only the Westboro Baptist Church has applied and obtained a permit. Johnson said rally organizers have notified the Park Service of other possible protest groups, but none of those have applied for a permit. The rally's long list of speakers and presenters runs the gamut from intellectuals to celebrities to comedians. The event is headlined by Oxford professor and author Richard Dawkins. Dawkins, who is widely regarded as the most respected figure in atheism, is lending his voice to this event because he says freedom for atheists is “constantly under threat from people who would like to turn this country into some sort of a theocracy.” “The Reason Rally is part of an effort to combat the attack of the theocrats,” Dawkins told CNN. “There is in this country at the moment a great revival of atheism, and the number of atheists in the country is much larger than people realize.” Atheist organizer takes ‘movement’ to nation’s capital At a press conference for the event, Silverman was adamant that the rally won't be the last. He didn't say whether it will be become an annual tradition, but he intends a higher profile for atheists in the future. “The next step after the rally is all eyes on the election,” Silverman said. “We want to post hard questions to the candidates.” Dawkins, too, related the rally to politics. “The nonbelieving constituency has not been vocal enough, and it therefore has been politic for them to be ignored by their congressmen, by their senators,” Dawkins said. Directing his comments at Congress, Dawkins said, “You have been neglecting them, overlooking them and riding roughshod over them as though they didn’t exist. Well, they do exist and they outnumber some of the other lobbies that you have been so assiduously sucking up to all these years.” The America Atheists also are holding their annual convention in Bethesda, Maryland, and the Secular Coalition for America has scheduled its “Lobby Day for Reason” on Friday. The weekend is part of a larger blitz by a coalition of atheists to “win” equality in American culture, Silverman said. “We are the last group against whom it is politically correct to be bigoted,” he said. “That is something that needs to change and I am very confident that we will within 20 years.” soundoff (3,073 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 Next »
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Reality.
Your favorite subject... Chasing ghosts ...
Atheism is just a transitory stage to the ultimate state – apatheism. An atheist feels the need to put up billboards and go to rallies. An apatheist goes out hiking or boating or otherwise doing something productive.
Best comment I've read on these boards in months. Including mine.
😆
I agree, atheists do not "need" a rally like this. However, I think it's more likely the same feeling a Star Trek fan might get from going to a convention. It's just fun being around a large number of like minded fan's who can laugh with the person next to you that you don't even know when someone on the podium makes a Romulan Ale joke because you know they know, you know?
🙂
"Atheism is just a transitory stage to the ultimate state – apatheism. An atheist feels the need to put up billboards and go to rallies. An apatheist goes out hiking or boating or otherwise doing something productive."
That's why the Christians waste their time in prayer with their hands clasp accomplishing nothing white the Atheist is out their communities making a difference. – Oh Yeah...that's been proven.
"white "
while – argh...LOL
@ OhYeah (sure, we all miss the Macho Man...)
"Atheist is out their communities making a difference."
You wouldn't post something that trite unless you had a list prepared, right? Let's have it.
"You wouldn't post something that trite unless you had a list prepared, right? Let's have it."
Thanks for proving your ignorance. That's the point you don't KNOW Atheists. So everything you say about them is a LIE!
"You wouldn't post something that trite unless you had a list prepared, right? Let's have it."
Religion has killed more people in the history of humanity than atheists so what's your point or are you really that dumb.
By "apatheist" do you mean someone without any interest or enthusiasm in things? Hardly sounds like the atheists I know.
@ OhYeah & Really?
Well, aren't you " two " a pair.. want some cheese with that whine?
"Well, aren't you " two " a pair.. want some cheese with that whine?"
Thanks for proving you don't have any really substance to your allegations just more stupid lies.
"Well, aren't you " two " a pair.. want some cheese with that whine?"
Really.... BG doesn't get it they're to stuck on their own ego to understand their ignorance. LOL!
For Al:
"Apatheism is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity."
"Apatheism" has replaced the older phrase "I Don't Give A Flying Fuck About Anything That Has To Do With Religion, So Shut Up And Fuck Off!", which was a bit too wordy.
I believe it is the other way. We start with apatheism, but when theists push us to the extreme we try to stand our ground and being athiest.
Far too much suffering in this world can be traced back to these primitive tribal beliefs, and far too many people that are intelligent enough to realize they're looking at bunk either go along because they're afraid of reprisal from believers or simply because they've been indoctrinated for so long it's never even occurred to them to question what they've been told.
Trying to convince other atheists to "come out of the closet" is highly productive.
Making people question the lies they've been taught is highly productive.
The moment the religious stop passing laws and performing actions that interfere with the freedom of women, gays, minorities, non-believers, etc., is the moment atheists can stop speaking up.
I'd love to attend, but I'm on the West Coast, but I'm sure it will be covered on this blog. I look forward to reading about it.
You know, it is possible to organize other rallies or conventions. If you live in or near a large city, see if you can get a convention center or hotel to host an event.
I know, organizing events is tedious and not for everyone - so email this event's organizers and ask them about doing one near you.
A professional organization that was formed to prove that something doesn't exist. If it doesn't exist there's nothing to disprove. ! Ignore it. The whole scheme is like a three dollar bill...phoney ...Just some jerks trying to prove there's a sucker born every minute.
Atheism does not try to prove god doesn't exist! How is this so hard for people to understand? The one thing that atheists have in common, ONE THING, is that they feel that there is no evidence to support the existence of god. That's it, done, not even an assertion.
Hey, Hawaii – why is it that I have complete respect for agnostics, but I find the absolutes blathered by atheists completely laughable?
@BG
I don't know, that's something that you'll need to figure out for yourself. Maybe your just a condescending ass? I can only speculate, but the tone of your question suggests a few things.
Out of curiousity, BG, why do you not find the absolutes of religious people laughable?
Fine question Wobbly Bob!! I'm willing to bet there isn't a good answer
@ Hawaii
It was rhetorical. Trust me. I know the 'answer.' The fact that you thought it was an actual question tells me all I need to know about your deductive* abilities
*or lack thereof.
@ Wobbly Bob
"...why do you not find the absolutes of religious people laughable?"
Reread my comment. I do find them laughable..
@BG
Then give us your reasoning. Asserting that you have a reason, but not giving it is tantamount to me saying, "I have 1billion dollars, trust me." At least you didn't try to deny the condescension in your post.
Your comment does not say what you think it says, BG. It only mentions atheists and agnostics. It does not address religious people at all.
So why do you find yourself laughable?
@ Wobbly Bob
What's next, Bob? I'm rubber and you're glue? Geez, talk about limited, but if you insist....
"Religious people" have more in common with agnostics than atheists. Yeah, I know.. Pascal and all that shít. It's immaterial, because people will believe what they want (or need) to believe despite any rationalizations from naysayers. You don't matter to them, Bob. You never had and never will. I hate to be a buzz- kill, but that's just the way it is.
Another "rubber and glue" retort from @ Hawaii.
"At least you didn't try to deny the condescension in your post."
Any 'condescension' is coming from atheists. Take a look in the mirror, dude.
"Any 'condescension' is coming from atheists. Take a look in the mirror, dude.
"
Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot, that log in your eye is HUGE!
@BG
Is attempting to deflect all you can do? You in no way even attempt to take up the points I am bringing up.
@ Hawaii
If all "atheism" was was the absence of satisfying empirical evidence I wouldn't care. Not a bit. Hell, if you stood in the airport with a robe and a tambourine chanting "There is no god" I might even give you a buck. Maybe two depending on how disheveled you were and how bad you stank.
The absence of evidence isn't the problem with atheism. It the -constant- personalized badgering, belittling, castigation, condemnation, etc. of believers in an effort to neuter the effect of their religious special interest groups. I've said this for months. You want political pull? Start a lobby. Organize. Send money to politicians. Do what everyone else does. Grow, empower yourselves though the process. Establish some patsy politicians, etc...
But all atheists do by belittling believers is to further entrench and polarize them in their beliefs, so they send their politicians more money...
"The absence of evidence isn't the problem with atheism. It the -constant- personalized badgering, belittling, castigation, condemnation, etc. of believers in an effort to neuter the effect of their religious special interest groups. I've said this for months. You want political pull? Start a lobby. Organize. Send money to politicians. Do what everyone else does. Grow, empower yourselves though the process. Establish some patsy politicians, etc...
But all atheists do by belittling believers is to further entrench and polarize them in their beliefs, so they send their politicians more money..."
Wow you have blinders on read back on this blog the post by Christians they do exactly what you are accusing Atheists of doing, You've done it yourself, the reason you see it is because you know you've done it yourself. You sir are a hypocrite!
Trust me, we'd like to be able to ignore it, but it's kinda difficult when so many believers claim that we're evil and immoral just because we don't believe what they do.
@ -–
So, atheists can dish it out, but when it's returned they cry foul? Good. Take your bat and ball and run home.
@BG
You are speaking about militant atheists, not the average atheist. The same happens when people speak about christians showing hate, and all that stuff. It's a small portion of that particular demographic. You're generalizing all atheist thoughts based on the extreme of that demographic. Should anyone (religious, agnostic, atheist) have their thoughts belittled based solely on their belief structure? Of course not. But unless you want to be part of the problem, then generalizing will only make things worse.
"So, atheists can dish it out, but when it's returned they cry foul? Good. Take your bat and ball and run home."
Wow talk about huge log in your eye....boo hooo you hurt my feelings, there is no love from you, guess you didn't really understand your Christ message after all – thanks for proving your a hypocrite.
"So, atheists can dish it out, but when it's returned they cry foul? Good. Take your bat and ball and run home."
Wow talk about huge log in your eye....boo hooo you hurt my feelings, there is no love from you, guess you didn't really understand your Christ message after all – thanks for proving you're a hypocrite.
" guess you didn't really understand your Christ message after all..."
-My- Christ message?
You know what they say about assumption, 'eh?
"You know what they say about assumption, 'eh?"
Lycidas won't answer specific questions except ask more questions it's their cop-out. Don't bother wasting your time on this stupid poster.
@ Hawaii
"You are speaking about militant atheists, not the average atheist."
Sounds familiar.
"The same happens when people speak about christians showing hate.."
Other than WBC, who might this be?
My comment to @ .... below applies to you as well.
@ ....
You want an unfair playing field. You can't have it. Life doesn't work that way.
@ Doh't bother, Homer
"Lycidas won't answer specific questions except ask more questions it's their cop-out. Don't bother wasting your time on this stupid poster."
Once again, I told you that you're off the mark. You really should attend your ESL classes.
"You want an unfair playing field. You can't have it. Life doesn't work that way."
LMAO – Thanks for proving you don't understand the message in the bible and you are not a true Christian. Satan be gone!
"Once again, I told you that you're off the mark. You really should attend your ESL classes."
Just proving you're a liar nothing more. Your stupidity speaks for itself.
@BG
How am I advocating an unfair playing field? How about the christian groups protesting abortion clinics, the killings at those places. Militant behaviour is not dependent on the denomination of religion. Take a look around, there are plenty of examples. Evangelical preachers condemning all those who don't believe as they do, people in my state that post untrue assertions about what atheism is to villify around schools and colleges.
@BG
"How am I advocating an unfair playing field? How about the christian groups protesting abortion clinics"
Let them. They're few and far between and politically impotent.
"... the killings at those places. Militant behaviour is not dependent on the denomination of religion."
Again, aberrant, not routine behavior.
"Evangelical preachers condemning all those who don't believe as they do..."
How many follow them? You're talking inconsequential minorities.
"... people in my state that post untrue assertions about what atheism is to villify around schools and colleges."
Where's your outreach? So far, your PR efforts (generally or specifically) speaking, suck. Atheism is confrontational, offensive, and aggressive. Exactly what do you expect the reaction to be?
@ HawaiiGuest
Yeah, well obviously that last one was to you. I cut/paste your response to me. Sorry.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. My response to GodPot went unanswered, except for Beavis throwing insults. Obviously I hit a nerve and his wheels fell off.
@ GodPot
" Most atheists I know would consider themselves democratic humanists who believe in a representative government of democratically elected persons to both make the laws we know are mutually beneficial for everyone and enforce them."\
Fine. Let's run with that, because that's essentially what we have now. The only problem is there's a preponderance of 'believers' who want to democratically establish laws favorable to them. Hey, it's democracy, right? You're outnumbered – you're the minority interest. So the courts have to step in order to maintain parity of what's "mutually beneficial" to all involved.
How is what you -want- different from what you already -have-?
"Atheism is confrontational, offensive, and aggressive. Exactly what do you expect the reaction to be?"
Some atheists have been confrontational, offensive, and aggressive in response to treatment like that from the religious. The religious think the can treat the nonreligious like crap and get away with it. Now atheists are outspoken and showing the stupidity of religion and the religious are getting really defensive. What reaction did the religious expect?
When other people actively interfere with your ability to believe as you choose (in this case, that there is no God), then a gathering is necessary.
By interference, I mean things like this: inserting christian morality into laws concerning birth control or abortion, inserting christian religious references into public schools or courthouses or sentences passed by judges (like a court-ordered probation condition requiring regular attendance at a church), etc.
OK... so why are you and your co-religionists so afraid of them, then?
Oh, h e l l yes!!
Prayer changes things
Not for amputees.
Regeneration is a work in progress.
– ~You've been proven a liar over and over again on this blog. A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested Friday morning...
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
Plus don't forget. The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!!
"Regeneration is a work in progress."
For new people the original poster plus this poster are the same and are proven LIARS.
Atheism and agnosticism are great for children. Better to teach them logic and rational though than magical thinking.
Those who state emphatically that prayer does NOT change things are angry, ignorant morons.
Prayer *might* cause actual physical changes to the environment, though clearly not all the time, nor perhaps in a statistically significant way. But... real prayer DOES change the person who does it. If you anti-prayer people were a little more open minded and tolerant rather than angry bigots, you'd respect that. Regular prayer, whether christian, taoist, zen, wiccan, humanist, or whatever, is a transformative experience that positively affects the person praying. If prayer never causes a physical change to the universe, it still changes things.
An just to clarify, I'm an atheist... or at least an agnostic. I'm just not hateful towards the beliefs of others.
I would very much like to see more things like this.
That is very shortsighted. You and all nonbelievers have no idea what the world would look like if there was no restraining force. Goodness and Evil coexist in this world. Christ or God stood against evil for the last 6,000 years or so. What do you hope to gain from a godless experiment on humanity?
Humans had to stop Hitler because god wouldn't do the job, fred; come back when you've got one tiny shred of real evidence for your god and we'll listen.. Until then, you've got to acknowledge that your faith can't do anything other than demand your strained, creative belief–like any other god/mystery belief.
"You and all nonbelievers have no idea what the world would look like if there was no restraining force." Thats right, we don't have any idea because religion has dominated the world for as you say, 6000 years. I don't really think humanists could do any worse.
momoya
GodPot
If there is no God the effect and affect of the Bible remains the same. We know what that result was, good or bad is a matter of opinion. The question is what gives you the right to force this new grand experiment on the people? Remember man has worshiped since the Neanderthal so when I said 6,000+ years that could well be 195,000 years. Now, in 20 years your godless mind set will have greater impact than Jesus. Who is playing God now and what is the difference
@ GodPot said
"Thats right, we don't have any idea because religion has dominated the world for as you say, 6000 years. I don't really think humanists could do any worse."
Religion has dominated the world since the beginning of structured civilization. Why? Who's to say. Insecurity, visits from aliens, surrender to forces over which we have no inherent control – choose you rationale. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that by demonstrating belief in a 'higher authority' man recognizes that he doesn't possess all the answers – man is not, and cannot be, omniscient. This self-humility is necessary for survival as a culture and species.
Things go to hell when 'man' thinks he know it all and exercises all his 'decisions' accordingly. Bad. Very bad. Ask anyone who has survived under a know-it-all dictator.
@ fred
I'm not sure what your first two sentences were saying, and nobody is forcing a "new grand experiment" on anyone.. Religion was really a great advantage for a very crucial period in the history of our species, but its influence is fading.. The "godless mindset" you seem afraid of is not a bad thing, but a good thing, and nobody is asking you to believe differently, anyway.. You can believe whatever you want about god; nothing's stopping you, not even god–and if you can imagine anything about god (because he doesn't tip his hat in any one direction) then you can believe whatever you want without the mechanism of god and god-belief..
It's not about "playing god," it's about the natural arc of any narrative.. Christianity and the Abrahamic religions have had their time on the world stage, but now their influence is waning–it's happened to every religious belief before yours, and now it's your turn.. Don't be mad; be glad that we are going to be a little bit more honest about things than before.
BG...so you are saying we should believe in something that probably doesn't exist because it's good for us. Kinda like Santa Claus to children?
Fred wrote, "God stood against evil for the last 6,000 years"
Dude! Your god CREATED evil. So he's been standing against himself all this time?
fred, I'm sorry that you are terrified of living a life without supernatural threats and rewards. My parents taught me that there are consequences for my actions. There was no mention of god. It was entirely sufficient to make me a responsible, honest adult. You should give it a try. Let go of your fear and be responsible for your own life.
@ karlito
You can't equivocate childhood belief in Santa to civilization's need for religion. When kids grow to adults we still hold the spirit, if you will, of 'Santa' being a good, attentive, compassionate, etc... action. We become Santa for our kids. Our kids will do the same for theirs. Santa is performance, an act of attention passed from generation to generation.
Religion is control by voluntary proxy. Religion goes south when it's 'memberships' use it to leverage their self-interests. Yeah, I know. Mixed bag. Just like everything else in life.
Ever hear the saying "a little humility is good for the soul?"
Prmewonk
The better to test you with my dear ! Even man made products need to be tested to be certain they are fit. Jesus said Satan was allowed to sift Peter like wheat. LIfe puts us through a strainer. I know of no better plan than what God has layed out sort the goats from the sheep.
"Things go to hell when 'man' thinks he know it all and exercises all his 'decisions' accordingly. Bad. Very bad. Ask anyone who has survived under a know-it-all dictator."
1. Since there has never been a period in history where religion has been completely silent from the major world powers we do not know if things would go to heII, and I submit that it is the theists throughout history who claimed they "know it all".
2. Since when does a dictatorship denote atheist rule?
dic·ta·tor/ˈdiktātər/Noun: A ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained power by force.
momoya
tallulah13
Problem is I would live differently if there was not an eternal record keeper. Not in an immoral sense but I would be more selfish with my time and money. If I was to please my boss or a family member I can be very manipulative whereas God cannot be fooled. These are assumptions I make because I remember the kind of person I was when there was no God. With God I am a different person not because of threat or reward but because something changed in my core att-itude.
I also assume others are this way and all hell could break loose if suddenly God is no more.
Fred....It's kinda sad that you are only good because someone is watching. I'm good because it feels right to me.
fred
"Remember man has worshiped since the Neanderthal"
Ah, so we shouldn't abandon doing something that the Neanderthals did, eh? How do you feel about living in caves, wearing animal pelts, and only using grunts for language? It's called "progress" for a reason, you know?
@fred – But what if you are wrong? What if most peoples good behavior comes from a chemical in our bodies?
Oxytocin (Greek, “quick birth”) is a mammalian hormone that also acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain.
In humans, oxytocin is thought to be released during hugging, touching, and o r g a s m in both s e x es. In the brain, oxytocin is involved in social recognition and bonding, and may be involved in the formation of trust between people and generosity. About 5% of the populace do not produce oxytocin on stimulus so yes, you are correct, without some other deter-ant such as law enforcement or in your case "God" a small percentage of the world would attempt to run wild because they feel little or no empathy for their fellow human. The rest of us will continue hugging and smiling and loving each other because we care about each other, we have empathy for others and do the right thing because we understand we are the others.
@ fred
I really doubt that; I think you'd find a way to rationalize behavior very similar to how it is now.. Your morals aren't that flimsy.. If you need to believe in eternal record keeping, do so, it's not unreasonable and the laws of physics allow for such minute record keeping.. Humans are the ones regulating behavior now, they just use old myths to prop up common sense ideas.. Humans are going to continue regulating behavior in the future whether they use your god as a framework or Islam's, or some other god belief or non-god belief..
Humans have done horrible things to each other with and without god beliefs attached to their actions; let's see how decent we can be starting out with honesty.. There's no personal god anybody can prove, and he doesn't disparage any beliefs, so let's just admit that he likely doesn't exist and do things the best we can.. If our morality with god-belief is the best we can do, other methods will be discarded as new or old religious views are reaccepted and revalued once again.
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin.html
For anyone interested in learning about why humans exhibit morality.
@ GodPot
Here's the essence of your argument.
http://www.trythought.com/blog/2011/06/the-atheist-dictator-problem/
Fascism obviously isn't contingent on atheism. It's a hell of an enabler though.
momoya
Your probably right about that my morals were inforced by the Cub Scout/ Boy Scout oath and motto. That is where the notion of helping an old lady across the street came from in my head. We were always doing good for the community. The scouts however had a God base as did much of american culure through the 60's. The Christian world-view was everywhere so it became a part of our make up. Those born after 1990 probably will have a much different base to draw from.
Lets hope GodPot is right and we can just put some feel good chemicals in the water.
"Your probably right about that my morals were inforced by the Cub Scout/ Boy Scout oath and motto. That is where the notion of helping an old lady across the street came from in my head. We were always doing good for the community. The scouts however had a God base as did much of american culure through the 60's. The Christian world-view was everywhere so it became a part of our make up. Those born after 1990 probably will have a much different base to draw from."
That's why you admit that you became an alcoholic so guess they didn't instill crap in you. You are so full of it that you are the most entertaining stupid poster on here.
fred
Your boss and your family are actually real people, with minds separate from your own, whereas God resides totally in your mind as far as you can tell, right? So, what you're actually saying is that you can fool other people, but not yourself.
Yet, suppose you are right, and God has actually existed all this time. If he suddenly winked out of existence what's to stop people from continuing to believe that he's still there? Nothing at all, right? People will make "miracles" out of ordinary events, like we atheists suspect is happening right now, to use as "proof" that he's still there. So, it's safe to say that the belief would carry on and all hell would not break loose.
That leaves just the belief in God itself, without any dependance upon his actually existing, which you think is keeping yourself and others in line. Again, that is something you are placing upon yourself psychologically. Just another manifestation of personal will power, and nothing more.
@BG – Most dictators who want to consolidate power to themselves must exclude all outside influence which of course includes the Church, otherwise it's not much of a dictatorship, it's a theocracy. This does not mean that atheists as a group want any one of their number to consolidate power to themselves by force. There is a HUGE difference between not wanting God to rule you and anarchy or dictatorships. Most atheists I know would consider themselves democratic humanists who believe in a representative government of democratically elected persons to both make the laws we know are mutually beneficial for everyone and enforce them.
@ GodPot
" Most atheists I know would consider themselves democratic humanists who believe in a representative government of democratically elected persons to both make the laws we know are mutually beneficial for everyone and enforce them."\
Fine. Let's run with that, because that's essentially what we have now. The only problem is there's a preponderance of 'believers' who want to democratically establish laws favorable to them. Hey, it's democracy, right? You're outnumbered – you're the minority interest. So the courts have to step in order to maintain parity of what's "mutually beneficial" to all involved.
How is what you -want- different from what you already -have-?
"BG"
Aka – Lycidas, Uncouth Swain, etc...
Wait did you lie when you said you only use 3 handles?
Interesting comparisons, but off the mark. Spin again.
You know, it -is- possible for there to be more than one of us out here.
"Interesting comparisons, but off the mark. Spin again."
Typical co-out proving it's not worth your time with is stupid poster, they to ignorant to answer directly. LMAO!
@ dont bother
what part of 'off the mark' are you having difficulty with? ESL?
"what part of 'off the mark' are you having difficulty with? ESL?"
Thanks Lycidas and all the handles you lied about .... you just proved me right. 😉
whatever. You're probably, what – 12?
"whatever. You're probably, what – 12?"
That is a 12 year old response. So I was right, you are stupid.
"Ask anyone who has survived under a know-it-all dictator'
Like the dark ages, where the know it all dictators were called popes.
This was a good thread for a while... not completely polite, but close. I really appreciate when christians and atheists can discuss concerns without bashing or ridiculing each other. Sadly, the insults seem more the norm.
To me, tolerance is the high ground we should all strive for. If (Group A) is attacking you, certainly defend your beliefs against them, but not by attacking their beliefs. For one thing, they won't listen to that anyway, so why do it? For another, it justifies their use of those tactics against you. Instead, talk about tolerance - work not to convert the infidel, but to coexist with them. Besides, you will attract far more converts with honey than vinegar, so to speak...
From the article:
"With thunderstorms forecast for Saturday..."
That's funny.
"The cost of the event is around $300,000, Silverman said, but philanthropist Todd Stiefel, Founder of the Stiefel Freethought Foundation, is supplying half the money."
Where's the other half coming from? Don't tell me that they're going to pass the plate.. er, hat. Whatever. Maybe once the AA gets organized they can have little donation envelopes printed up for their members...
@BG
What does AA have to do with this?
American Atheists, not to be confused with Alcoholics Anonymous which is for Christians who believe they don't have the strength to quit drinking on their own so must throw their burbon, er, burden on God...
Thx Godpot. I work at a substance abuse counseling facility, so when I see AA I automatically think Alcoholics Anonymous.
GodPot
Thank God for 12 steps it works when you work it !
1. We admitted we were powerless over Godlessness—that our lives had become meaningless
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature
of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with
God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us
and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to
carry this message to other atheists and agnostics
@fred – I quit drinking last May, and I haven't touched a drop since and guess what, not one prayer, not one "please God" not one meeting, I didn't even tell my wife, I just quit after I had been having about two bottles of wine a night for 20 years. And theres wine and Rum in the house all the time since my wife still drinks, so it's not environment either. I believe it was Yoda that gave me the best advice when he said "Do or do not, there is no try."
You may never know who was praying for you to quit. That is one thing about prayer regarless if it works or not you are thinking good things and good outcomes for the person.
@ GodPot
You're very fortunate. Sanctimonious and self-righteous, but fortunate none the less. Every think that you -just might not- be clinically addicted? Hmm?
Your attempt at setting a universal standard is disgusting. Nice that you quit on your own, but to suggest that everyone should be able to do the same? It's probably good that you're not drinking, as alcohol tends to exacerbate one's as sholish qualities.
@BG
If you're going to be all mad at sanctimonious behaviour and attempting to lay a universal truth based on an individual idea, then get angry at fred and AAatheists as well.
Fred – Can you please pray for my friend who lost both of his legs in an accident last year? Can God please heal him and let his legs grow back? I bet if you pray hard enough it will happen
I am not the only one who has quit drinking or other bad habit's without God and I think it is absolutely false that anyone "needs" a deity to pray to for the strength to do it. In fact I believe many theists fail at quitting so often because they link their faith with their problem so when their faith is low, so is their reason to not drink, and that coupled with the thought that you can always ask God for forgiveness does not give a very stable base for long lasting change.
As for being "Sanctimonious and self-righteous" I do not believe I am "Feigning piety or righteousness" by taking credit for something I did without your God's aid. It's called taking responsibility for my own actions. If you are offended by my "I did it, Why can't you" attltude then I am sorry that you feel that way, but it doesn't change the fact that "I did it, and You Can Too".
LRB
I could site Biblical reasons why legs do not reappear following prayer but it would be nonsense to a nonbeliever. Personally, I lack the faith to pray for legs to grow back. That is a real issue for me as by now I should have that kind of faith given all God has shown me. Bottom line without faith and trust it is impossible to please God. I know in this area I do not please God. I prayed for God to heal a friends legs but, finally they were amputated. Through the ordeal she had more faith and trust in God than I did and today a much greater strength and thankfullness. I remain stuck with limited faith. There is a lesson in there for me but I am not getting it.
@ GodPot
" I think it is absolutely false that anyone "needs" a deity to pray to for the strength to do it."
Sanctimonious
"... the fact that "I did it, and You Can Too"
Self-righteous.
Who-in-the-hell are you to say what anyone else should or shouldn't need in order to fight their personal addiction? I don't know if you're an actual addict, or just a blowhole. I'm pretty sold on the latter.
@BG – I guess without you to verify my drinking habits over the last 20 years I must not have been addicted, right?
I do not want to diminish anyone else's triumph over an addictive substance whether they used a belief in God or not, but anyone who thinks it was God that held their arm back from grabbing that next bottle I just want to remind them, it was their brain and their muscles and their willpower (aka faith) that had to be used in order to do it. After seeing some members in my ex-church go in and out of AA often having relapses because they had done something unrelated to their drinking that they felt took them further from their faith like infidelity or family members dying or whatever they felt weakened their faith or were weaknesses of faith, I knew it could not be something external if you really want to quit. I believe praying to quit drinking is as useful as praying for a football team to win a game. Lot's of people do it and even broadcast their piety, but I do not believe it does one bit of good.
@ GodPot
My point is simple. What works for you, works for you. You can offer, suggest, ascribe, etc. your experiential success to others, but to intimate that yours is the only right way is ridiculous.
Holy cr@p, BG... you are dense.
The other half probably comes from registration fees.
one day, when religion goes away, it would be great to hold these meetings of the mind at what used to be churches/temples. they've got to be used for something once religion fades away. once bastions of ignorance could serve as houses of logic and reason instead. either that or local swap meets.
"when religion goes away" this event would just be another day at the park.
Why should religion dwindle into non-existence? It may be old, but it has value to many. Why are you so set on destroying what they consider valuable? Does it offend you to see others believe something different than you?
If so, you must have a great deal in common with those religious folk you despise.
I am NOT an atheist. I am an ANTI-THEIST and proud of it. I don't just deny a belief in a God(s), but oppose those that do and vigorously oppose those that seek to impose their religious dogma on our political decision making. The First Amendment states that our government shall NOT RESPECT the establishment of a religion. Impliedly that means NOT RESPECT the establishment of any religion in whole or in part, including positions based on religious beliefs (e.g. anti-abortion, marriage between a man and a woman etc.)
Looking forward to it.
If you read about somebody arrested for public intoxication and indecent exposure, that was me lol!
Just say can we Pagans come join the party you know it always fun to protest The abrihamic god
gay right
Pro choice
FEMEN
we just love to come out
We are cu-ming out of the closet together. Finally the world will leave us to do what we want in our bedrooms.
i think you have the best name i have ever seen on these blogs.
Why the obsession with the bedroom and I really doubt the whole world cares. If God decided to let you do as you will in the dark why would his faithful try and stop you?
Atheiphobic comments just make you look silly fred. Have you hugged a theist today? You seem a bit cranky.
@BootyFunk
and a Funkn Booty right back at ya ! Hope to see ya at the rally; I plan to cu-m as the Bishop of Westboro during the burning of the witch reenactment.
It's really hard to describe the image that popped into my mind on reading that, but I'm sure it's not as outrageous and funny as gaytheist's version.. C-um out for all of us that can't make it, y'hear?!
cu-mon momoya I saved a spot for you
Lol Westboro baptist church is gonna be there..
i love that the westboro church will be there. they are like a free commercial to leave christianity. hahaha.
Good for you make sure you wear bullet proof gear because if we “Pagans” did this we would be shot in the street even though we grew 200% in the last 10 years I much rather them sheep not see are faces yet but the wolves are among them
Gaia
for god in 2012
yes see JC there is some one ruining against you
Awesome! Yay atheism. This is a victory for truth.
Take one more step toward ridding the world of religion and its ignorance. I am NOT an atheist. I am an ANTI-THEIST and proud of it. I don't just deny a belief in a God(s), but oppose those that do and vigorously oppose those that seek to impose their religious dogma on our political decision making. The First Amendment states that our government shall NOT RESPECT the establishment of a religion. Impliedly that means NOT RESPECT the establishment of any religion in whole or in part, including positions based on religious beliefs (e.g. anti-abortion, marriage between a man and a woman etc.).
Wish they could re-schedule for better weather. It would be great to attend this! Are any of you back east going?
Are they going to burn Tebow in effigy?
Well, Duh!
They can't burn him for real. He keeps jumping in that little baptismal pool.
That killed me, Primewonk. Thanks for the laugh.
Primework, that was awesome. definately tied for first place out of all the comments i've read.
I like french toast.
Let there be no T-Storms.
tsk-tsk they can't pray away the inclement weather..
Sure you will enjoy yourselves and celebrate your holy day – April 1st
"tsk-tsk they can't pray away the inclement weather.." You're correct! NOBODY can do that! Although, there are many delusional fools who believe they can...
@James... so right. Damn it. I bet it will be sunny in "the grassy area between 14th and 15th streets"... then we'll know for certain that prayer DOES work (Westboro Baptist Church's designated area for those with poor reading comprehension)....
30000 bigots are coming out?!?!?!
Atheist Rally
"Sure you will enjoy yourselves and celebrate your holy day – April 1st"
Your Palm Sunday is on April 1st this year! Ahahahahahahahahhahahaha!
Christians celebrated the Palm sunday triumphantly & joyfully waving their palm branches and inviting everyone of cheer to join 'em.
The Atheists on the other hand were celebrating their holiest of days, April 1st with much fanfare proudly proclaiming there is no God.
@Atheist rally
How is April 1st a "holy" day for atheists. We don't believe in the divine, and we don't believe that a day can be "holy". A day could be significant. It could be remembered as a day that a major event in a town, city, state, country, or even the world happened. I'm not getting your rational at all.
"How is April 1st a "holy" day for atheists. We don't believe in the divine, and we don't believe that a day can be "holy"
It's not Holy, it's holey...
We will get up there and declare our collective conversion to Christianity and then in one loud, clear voice we will shout "APRIL FOOLS!!"
April 1 is a playful opportunity to celebrate gullibility, so it could be like our version of Halloween, I suppose?
Reuters
"Let there be no T-Storms."
Why, are you afraid of being "smited" by one of God's lightening bolts? Just kidding! 🙂