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April 2nd, 2012
03:00 PM ET

Romney fields hostile question on Mormonism

By Rachel Streitfeld, CNN

Green Bay, Wisconsin (CNN) – A Green Bay voter confronted Mitt Romney over his religion at a town hall Monday, the day before Wisconsin's primary. Romney is a life long member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly called Mormons.

"I guess my question is, do you believe it's a sin for a white man to marry and procreate with a black?" asked Bret Hatch, a 28-year old Ron Paul supporter from Green Bay.

Read the full story on Mitt Romney fielding a question about his Mormonism
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Mitt Romney • Mormonism • Politics

soundoff (508 Responses)
  1. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    April 5, 2012 at 6:58 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are so full of crap and lies. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!".

      April 5, 2012 at 10:44 am |
  2. Pipe-Dreamer

    FOOD FOR THOUGHT

    I turned the ripe ol' age of 57 earlier this year,,,, Because I have much free-time on my hands nowadays, I am left to consider God and His Majestic Realm(s) He and His generations and Brethren inhabit. Looking around here upon Earth does seem to be void of any Godliness whatsoever so, one may conclude this Earthly realm is not inhabited by God nor His Kind. Where then might one avail themself to look for God's Realm(s)? Should one look toward the Holy Gospel in searching for God's Realm(s)? Okay, let's delve into the Gospel of the Holy Bible,,,,,

    Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    Mathew's 6th chapter, 33rd verse says to "seek first" God's Kingdom,,,,, Okay,,,, Let's search the Holy Bible Scriptures in search of God's Kingdom,,,,

    Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is "inside" you.

    Inside us is where the kingdom of God does lay? How can that be? We are made up of cells in the microscopic proportions. At least, this is what one sees when viewing structures thru a microscope. Can such cells be of God's Kingdom? How so?

    1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

    C'mon Holy Bible! Now scripture is telling me that not only do we labour together with God, He is at the center of our being conceived! Not to mention, We are but buildings,,,,, For what purposes and why and how are our bodies as buildings and does God dwell inside our bodies He says are buildings?

    "May your dreams and fantasies become rational treasures of Godliness!"

    April 4, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • J_Abe

      I turned the ripe ol' age of 57 earlier this year,,,, Because I have much free-time on my hands nowadays, I am left to consider God and His Majestic Realm(s) He and His generations and Brethren inhabit. Looking around here upon Earth does seem to be void of any Godliness whatsoever so, one may conclude this Earthly realm is not inhabited by God nor His Kind. Where then might one avail themself to look for God's Realm(s)? Should one look toward the Holy Gospel in searching for God's Realm(s)? Okay, let's delve into the Gospel of the Holy Bible,,,,,

      Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

      Mathew's 6th chapter, 33rd verse says to "seek first" God's Kingdom,,,,, Okay,,,, Let's search the Holy Bible Scriptures in search of God's Kingdom,,,,

      Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is "inside" you.

      Inside us is where the kingdom of God does lay? How can that be? We are made up of cells in the microscopic proportions. At least, this is what one sees when viewing structures thru a microscope. Can such cells be of God's Kingdom? How so?

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      C'mon Holy Bible! Now scripture is telling me that not only do we labour together with God, He is at the center of our being conceived! Not to mention, We are but buildings,,,,, For what purposes and why and how are our bodies as buildings and does God dwell inside our bodies He says are buildings?

      All good questions! First, our bodies are not only made of of all the amazing physical attributes that God has supplied us with, but we also have souls. I very much find the makings up our physical bodies to be very much of Godly creation. This is a talk that was given this last week at our General Conference by one of the Elders that helps to explain my beliefs on this topic:

      Our Heavenly Father loves His children.He has blessed each with physical and spiritual gifts. Let me speak of each. When you sing “I Am a Child of God,” think of His gift to you of your own physical body. The many amazing attributes of your body attest to your own “divine nature.”

      Each organ of your body is a wondrous gift from God. Each eye has an auto-focusing lens. Nerves and muscles control two eyes to make a single three-dimensional image. The eyes are connected to the brain, which records the sights seen.

      Your heart is an incredible pump. It has four delicate valves that control the direction of blood flow. These valves open and close more than 100,000 times a day—36 million times a year. Yet, unless altered by disease, they are able to withstand such stress almost indefinitely.

      Think of the body’s defense system. To protect it from harm, it perceives pain. In response to infection, it generates antibodies. The skin provides protection. It warns against injury that excessive heat or cold might cause.

      The body renews its own out-dated cells and regulates the levels of its own vital ingredients. The body heals its cuts, bruises, and broken bones. Its capacity for reproduction is another sacred gift from God.

      Be we reminded that a perfect body is not required to achieve one’s divine destiny. In fact, some of the sweetest spirits are housed in frail or imperfect bodies. Great spiritual strength is often developed by people with physical challenges, precisely because they are so challenged.

      Anyone who studies the workings of the human body has surely “seen God moving in his majesty and power.” Because the body is governed by divine law, any healing comes by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated.”

      Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!

      If the body’s capacity for normal function, defense, repair, regulation, and regeneration were to prevail without limit, life here would continue in perpetuity. Yes, we would be stranded here on earth! Mercifully for us, our Creator provided for aging and other processes that would ultimately result in our physical death. Death, like birth, is part of life. Scripture teaches that “it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from this temporal death, for that would destroy the great plan of happiness.” To return to God through the gateway we call death is a joy for those who love Him and are prepared to meet Him. Eventually the time will come when each “spirit and . . . body shall be reunited again in . . . perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame,” never to be separated again. For these physical gifts, thanks be to God!

      So, not only has he created these amazing vessels for us to live on this Earth within, but he has given us the choice to have him help us through this life (or to labor with us) if we seek him, and if we allow him into our lives. Our physical bodies would continue to live without us following him, right? But we become his buildings when we carry his knowledge with us through this life. Every time we humble ourselves, and either pray, or serve someone else, or read scriptures or any of the other many things that we are asked to do, and we receive blessings, we build our own individual testimonies. Every time this happens for me, it shows me of how loving our Heavenly Father is, and how he understands me personally, and how he's not some crazy evil being that half the posters on here would like to believe. Soooo, it would be really difficult for God to live on this Earth without us. This is why he lives in us. If there were no believers how would he exist? How would the gospel live or be shared with others? There are no pictures of him, there is no video of him showing us how he created the world. Some feel that they need proof in order to believe, but we are commanded to have faith. Proof comes in living the gospel and building your own personal testimony. I feel like I've gone a bit off topic for what you were asking, but I hope that this helps. you.

      April 5, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • Mark

      Such ignorance for someone who God has allowed to remain for 57 years.
      You state,
      "Mathew's 6th chapter, 33rd verse says to "seek first" God's Kingdom,,,,, Okay,,,, Let's search the Holy Bible Scriptures in search of God's Kingdom,,,,

      Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is "inside" you.

      Inside us is where the kingdom of God does lay? How can that be? We are made up of cells in the microscopic proportions. At least, this is what one sees when viewing structures thru a microscope. Can such cells be of God's Kingdom? How so?"

      Ac 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
      25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

      Re 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

      "1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building."

      This was written to Christians who had already obeyed the gospel and been added to the kingdom, it's not talking about you.

      C'mon Holy Bible! Now scripture is telling me that not only do we labour together with God, He is at the center of our being conceived! Not to mention, We are but buildings,,,,, For what purposes and why and how are our bodies as buildings and does God dwell inside our bodies He says are buildings?

      No Sir, you are labouring against Him. But He can still use you, just as He did Pharaoh, if you continue to harden your heart and not allow Him entrance.

      April 6, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
  3. Nii

    YR
    Seems u r very depressed. I know how it feels when all seems gloomy n u can't seem to understand anything u r taught. Yep a broken-heart in college did that. If u want to answer to my post answer all of it. Don't cut n paste part to make ur post long n write one line which doesn't say anything.

    April 4, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  4. momoya

    Just sayin'

    Why do you need to lie and dodge?? What the matter? It's a simple question.. Why so scared?

    Is there a method by which to KNOW if someone is a true christian or not? If so, what is the method?

    April 4, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Nii

      Evangelist Momoya
      There is a simple method indeed to see if one is spiritual or not.
      Does the person possess the fruit of the Spirit.
      Note evangelism which you recieved plaudits for is a gift of the Spirit n u r not spiritual cos you possess it.
      U become spiritual when you practise charitable love.

      April 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Nii

      Anyone who is spiritual, christian or not, is a true christian and a member of the true church. This is the actual doctrine of Communion of Saints. That is the true church are sealed to God.

      April 4, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Does the person possess the fruit of the Spirit.
      Note evangelism which you recieved plaudits for is a gift of the Spirit n u r not spiritual cos you possess it.
      U become spiritual when you practise charitable love."

      Yeah and the pedophile priests would qualify to that definition, you have no idea what you are talking about. Keep showing the world your stupidity.

      April 4, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
  5. momoya

    To all Christians:

    By what method can you tell if someone is a "true christian" and part of "the true church" of christ?

    April 4, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • just sayin

      You momoya obviously can't. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • True Christian

      We use our guts of course. What feel's right and holy must be right and holy, what feels true, must be true. Once you get into the whole "testing" of truth you are asking us to question our faith and we all know God will not allow himself to be tested!! Except for that one time with Elijah...

      "22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the LORD’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God.” 1Kings 18:22-24

      April 4, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • momoya

      No, I can't, because the method does not exist.. neither you, nor any christian has any method by which to tell if someone is a true christian and part of the true church..

      April 4, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • just sayin

      The answers are in the Bible which you claimed to have read 7 times. You wouldn't lie about a thing like that would you? God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • just sayin

      I know who I have believed and am convinced that he is able to keep that which i have committed unto him against that day. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • momoya

      @just sayin

      I was a strong believer for over 50 years.. You claim that I was not a "true christian.". Your statement raises an interesting question: How can someone tell who is a true christian and who isn't?. Is there a method for determining "true christianity" or not?

      Why are you so afraid to answer honestly?

      April 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • GodPot

      I spent 30 years praying for God to light my fire and I would convince myself day in and day out that I was starting to get a little warm. I would look for any sign or justification for my belief and gave credit where credit was certainly not due on more than one occasion. But, alas, my faith died in a cool quiet whimper without so much as a single flame.

      April 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • just sayin

      How many answers do you require, you have passed by three. Two of which show you to be a liar. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • just sayin

      If what you have written is true then you were never a believer let alone a strong believer. That is your problem. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • momoya

      No, I have not passed by any answers as you have not provided any.. You've dodged the question by saying where the answer can be found and by saying that I cannot tell who is a true christian.

      Why are you lying, and why won't you answer the question with a simple answer.. Had you met me when I firmly believed, how would you have determined that I was "deceived" and not a true christian.. Please answer the question.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • momoya

      I was a "strong believer" by the verification of those who worked with me and by every standard I know of..

      Please answer the question: By what method can you determine who is a true christian?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • Leo

      Momoya, you state "Why are you so afraid to answer honestly?" yet were is the list of ATHEIST charities?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • just sayin

      You don't recognize a Biblical passage, a book you claimed to have read 7 times? and call me a liar? You are nuts. Another couple evidences as to how we recognize our salvation, "the earnest of the Holy Spirit', and how we recognize others "you will know them (Christians) by their love" Sorry you missed the boat. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • just sayin

      It does not matter what others think of you, you were never a Christian and it appears that you have so hated God that you may never be.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Leo

      Looks like you forgot that you saw a list of charities that are completely secular in a different article. Short term memory loss is bad, you might want to get that checked.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Leo

      To aswer your question you should see what the Bible calls fruit of the spirit ie, Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, etc.

      No one knows the heart of man, much that is going on inside is only known to oursleves and God.

      There are also many decievers that claim to be Christian and are not, but again the Bible makes this clear that by their fruit (Works) you shall know them.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • momoya

      @ just sayin

      You liar.. I'm glad you argue this way for your god instead of for atheism..

      Why are you running scared, now? Question to tough for you, or can't you come up with the typical dipsh!t answer that will hold for a post or two?

      How can any christian tell if another person is or isn't a true christian? Answer, please.

      p.s. I don't care about scripture or what it says! I'm asking YOU, fraidy cat.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Leo

      Secular is not Atheist. All you have to name is one.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • just sayin

      The Lord rebuke you.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Leo

      You said>To aswer your question you should see what the Bible calls fruit of the spirit ie, Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, etc.
      .

      I would agree, but so many christians don't do this and so many nonbelievers do.. Sorry
      .
      .
      You said>No one knows the heart of man, much that is going on inside is only known to oursleves and God.
      .
      I agree with that.. I also think that no one can claim that another person is or is not sincere.
      .
      .
      You said>There are also many decievers that claim to be Christian and are not, but again the Bible makes this clear that by their fruit (Works) you shall know them.
      .
      Again, I agree.. Of course, many, many people do very good "works" and they aren't christian.. I work with a large group of volunteers made up of mostly non-believers but also some believers, and our works seem to really help a lot of people very substantially.. I don't think anyone would observe any of us and be able to tell who was christian and who wasn't.. Do you think such a thing would be possible?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      What the hell do you think secular is? A secular charity is non-religious, unaffiliated with any religion or spiritual doctrine.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • momoya

      Just sayin'

      Why do you need to lie and dodge?? What the matter? It's a simple question.. Why so scared?

      Is there a method by which to KNOW if someone is a true christian or not? If so, what is the method?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Leo

      To expand on my first answer, there are also foundational essential doctrines that have been followed since the Early Church.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • momoya

      Right, Leo.. My point is that one person can't tell if another is a christian or not, and other here have claimed the opposite?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Leo

      Hawaii, Secular is not Atheist, separate from Religion does not make is Atheist. ALL Businesses and Government are secular.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Then what would (in your "expert" opinion) consti.tute as an atheist charity?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • momoya

      A-theism is not believing (most people are atheist in regards to Thor-the god of thunder)
      Secularism is not caring (a secular business doesn't care about gods supposed existence, actions, or desires)

      Atheism is a refutation of a positive claim in order to make it a nonclaim, it itself is not a claim.
      Secularism is a stance that considers god issues irrelevant.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • Leo

      Christians are not called to judge those outside the Church, this one of the biggest mistakes that many make even myself. We are called however to defend what we believe in and stand up for the rights of the weak and helpless.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • momoya

      Leo, you sound like you have a really great heart!. My question was more for christians who want to claim that they can tell who is a true christian and who isn't.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Nii

      GODPOT
      U sound like a former Mormon. However Mormons are aanother religion other than Christianity. Like Islam the similarities are there but fundamental differences exist.

      April 4, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • J_Abe

      This is the list compiled using Bible references that my church has come up with.

      1. Christ organized the Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)

      2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ
      (Ephesians 5:23)

      3. The true church must have a foundation of
      Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20)

      4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)

      5. The true church must claim divine authority(Hebrews 4:4-10)

      6. The true church must have no paid ministry
      (Acts 20:33-34; John 10 11-13)

      7. The true church must baptize by immersion (Mathew 3:13-16)

      8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands
      (Acts 8:14-17)

      9. The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15)

      10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals
      (John 17:11; 20:17)

      11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone
      (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Hebrews1:1-3)

      12. The officers must be called by God
      (Hebrews 4:4; Exodus 28:1; 40:13-16)

      13. The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7)

      14. The true church must be a missionary church (Mathew 28:19-20)

      15. The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20)

      16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead
      (1 Corinthians 15:16&29)

      17. "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:20)

      April 5, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • momoya

      JAbe that's quite a list and as you know, very open to interpretation.

      April 5, 2012 at 11:15 pm |
    • J_Abe

      Anything by which faith becomes involved is going to be open to interpretation, but practicing faith is the only way to create growth within yourself and for you to experience whats true for yourself.

      April 6, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • Mark

      momoya,
      I know you don't care, but you did ask.

      Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
      21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

      April 6, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Mark

      J_Abe wrote,

      "This is the list compiled using Bible references that my church has come up with."
      NOTICE, "my church" Jesus built his church, not yours.(Matt.16:18)

      "1. Christ organized the Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)"
      True,and the church is his body(Eph.1:22,23) and there is only one body(Eph.4:4-6)

      "2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ
      (Ephesians 5:23)"
      True again, NO "Baptist" "Methodist" "Presbyterian" "Roman Catholic" "Mormon" "Lutheran" churches etc. etc. etc.(Acts 4:12)

      "3. The true church must have a foundation of
      Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20)"
      NO Apostles nor Prophets today. In order to be an apostle you had to have seen the risen Christ(Acts 1:22)
      NO prophets today(Zech.13:2; 1Cor.13:8) Eph.2:20 says Christians are "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" does not say those offices would continue.

      "4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)"
      Again, NO apostles and NO prophets, you read right over the qualifying statement as to how long some of these offices would continue, verse 13............"Till we all come in the unity of the faith" Also notice(1Cor.13:9,10)

      "5. The true church must claim divine authority(Hebrews 4:4-10)"
      Divine authority comes only from God's written word, (Rom.10:17; 2Pet.1:3)

      "6. The true church must have no paid ministry
      (Acts 20:33-34; John 10 11-13)"
      NOT TRUE, Paul just said he "coveted no mans silver, etc. etc. but he exhorted brethren to take care of the workers(2Cor.8:4; 2Cor.9:1ff; Also 1Tim.5:17-18)

      "7. The true church must baptize by immersion (Mathew 3:13-16)"
      True, also for a specific purpose(Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16) "for the remission of sins"

      "8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands
      (Acts 8:14-17)"
      FALSE, Again, the apostles were the only ones who were promised the comforter(Jn.14:26 "which is the Holy Ghost") the apostles were the only ones who could transfer these gifts through the laying on of their hands, but when that which is perfect came(Jam.1:25) there was no more need for the miraculous gifts.(2Cor.5:7)

      "9. The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15)"
      FALSE again, NO miracles today.(1Cor.13:8-10) what part of "done away" do you not understand?

      "10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals
      (John 17:11; 20:17)"
      TRUE, and so also the Holy Spirit(Matt.3:16,17)

      "11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone
      (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Hebrews1:1-3)"
      FALSE, only Jesus indwelled a fleshly body(Heb.10:5) God the Father is Spirit(Jn.4:24)

      "12. The officers must be called by God
      (Hebrews 4:4; Exodus 28:1; 40:13-16)"
      This is true, but it's not a "direct calling" as you may think. The only way persons are called today is through the written word.(2Thess.2:14)

      "13. The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7)"
      FALSE, no-one today is receiving direct revelation, again, NO more prophets after the completed revelation was written.(Zech 13:2; 1Cor.13:8-10) God's final revelation has been once delivered for all(Jude 3)

      "14. The true church must be a missionary church (Mathew 28:19-20)"
      Christians are certainly suppose to teach the gospel but as for the word "missionary" it is nowhere found in the oracles of God.....(1Pet.4:11)

      "15. The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20)"
      Agian Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church(Matt.16:18) it will always be.

      "16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead
      (1 Corinthians 15:16&29)"
      FALSE, Paul is not claiming persons were being baptized for another person but simply saying "if the dead rise not then why are you being baptized into death"? NO-ONE can be baptized for anothers sins (2Cor.5:10)

      17. "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:20)"

      YEP, and we now know you Mr. Mormon.

      April 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • J_Abe

      Thanks Mark, but I'm pretty sure I already clarified in an earlier post that I was Mormon. And again, when I say my church I don't mean my Church. I'm not sure how it helps anybody's understanding when you attempt to twist people's words and intentions.

      April 6, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Mark

      J_Abe wrote:

      " when I say my church I don't mean my Church. I'm not sure how it helps anybody's understanding when you attempt to twist people's words and intentions."

      You'd make a good politician, I didn't "twist" anything, you said "my church" and since the bible says absolutely NOTHING of anyone becoming a "Mormon" we can all see clearly it is not the church Jesus built.

      1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

      The "Mormons" claim to have "another gospel" given to Joseph Smith by a so-called angel Moroni (not sure of spelling) but notice what Paul states...........Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
      7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
      8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
      9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

      April 6, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • J_Abe

      Okay, I'm sorry if my intentions are unclear to you. "my church" simply means the church I go to or am a member of. And, of course the Bible doesn't mention Mormons. The reference of "Mormon" was originally a derogatory name we were given. However there are bible verses referencing the restoration.
      Isaiah 2:2-3
      "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
      Malachi 3:1 & 4:6
      "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
      And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
      Acts 3:22
      "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."
      There's more, but I think this is good for now. I don't really like being preachy to people anyway, so this isn't really fun for me. I just don't understand your hatred for others. I may not agree with everything then everyone else thinks, feels or says, but I'm not going to condemn them for doing so. As for the "alternate scriptures", I'm guessing you mean mean the Book of Mormon. Have you ever read The Book of Mormon? I'm guessing no. You obviously don't know what it is either. Do you think that the only people that experienced Christ while he was Earth were those that wrote about him in the Bible? Do you not think that anyone else on the entire earth found him and his life amazing enough to write about it? All the Book of Mormon is are the accounts of others that witnessed Jesus. There isn't anything in the Book of Mormon that will contradict the Bible. It is not another Gospel, it is still the same teachings and if you read it you would see that for yourself.

      April 6, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Mark

      J_Abe wrote:

      "Okay, I'm sorry if my intentions are unclear to you. "my church" simply means the church I go to or am a member of. And, of course the Bible doesn't mention Mormons. The reference of "Mormon" was originally a derogatory name we were given. However there are bible verses referencing the restoration."
      Isaiah 2:2-3
      "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
      Malachi 3:1 & 4:6
      "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
      And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

      J_Abe,
      This all came to pass. Haven't you read Acts 1
      Also do you not realize that John the baptizer was is the messenger spoken of in Mal.???

      "Acts 3:22
      "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."

      Peter was telling them at that time who this was referring to, did you not read verse 20..... And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

      Jesus himself said "ALL" that was written of him in the OT has been fulfilled, (Lk.24:44)(Acts 3:18)

      Mormons came along to late.
      btw, I don't hate you.

      April 7, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
  6. Leo

    @ momoya you stated the following "If God wanted to be known, he would make himself as obvious as math and chemistry or more so.. Ether he doesn't want to be known, doesn't care to be known, or doesn't exist.

    Thank you so much for proving exactly what God said!

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

    Can you not see the LAWS of physics? Can you not see the complexity of the Human Brain, Life, even a single white blood cell is an incredible machine working perfectly with 50 to 75 trillion others cells that multiplied from a single fertilized egg!!

    Here is a great animation example for you. come back and tell us what God needs to do more to reveal himself to you!!

    http://www.xvivo.net/the-inner-life-of-the-cell/

    April 4, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • momoya

      I only want as much proof as Doubting Thomas got, Leo.. And yes, if the bible is accurate then likely god did make me with the sort of logical mind that cannot accept such a stupid and illogical being who can't be proved by anybody with any method.. So yes, your god did make me merely as a vessel to express his anger and wrath.. What a dipsh!t fvcktard!

      April 4, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • momoya

      Incredulity is not proof.. Our universe and biological life is really cool, and we don't understand a whole lot about the universe or life.. But things being nifty doesn't mean that an invisible unicorn made it.. It just means that there's more to discover..

      April 4, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • Leo

      Albert Einstein – Just a few

      1. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.
      2.Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
      3.My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
      4.The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
      5.Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.
      6.The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

      April 4, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Wow Leo, that is a wonderfully irrelevant post to the points brought up. It must make you feel really proud to consistently dodge defending any position that you hold.

      April 4, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • momoya

      @Leo

      Provided that we live in an interesting universe with diversity of life, what proof do you have to support your claims about a certain god or other being involved?

      April 4, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Leo

      So unless you see God Face to Face you won't believe? His workmanship and his word is not enough for you though?

      April 4, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • Leo

      Hawaii, Albert Einstein saw clearly the workmanship of God, but you would redicule him if he were on these post!!

      April 4, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • momoya

      Leo, Einstein did NOT believe in any sort of personal god like the ones believed by christianity or any of the major religion.. Einstein spoke of god as a pure-energy/information source–not a being with desires or cares about us or anything or anybody else.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Leo

      His words speak for themselves.

      April 4, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • momoya

      yes, they do.

      Quotes from the man himself:

      I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

      I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

      April 4, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • Reality

      A rebuttal using a prayer-

      ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS:

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (References used are available upon request.)

      April 5, 2012 at 7:17 am |
  7. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEWBIES:-------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Putting the final kibosh on religion to include Mormonism:

    • There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    April 4, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  8. Nii

    Mark,
    The old lady you are arguing with, Momoya, could never follow your logic. She says she was an evangelist for a yet to be named church. She lost her faith somewhere between science and reading the Bible for the 7th time in 50 years. Send her a Joyce Meyer Conference ticket. lol

    April 4, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • momoya

      Nii

      Mark is a liar because he claims to have answered questions that he never answered.. Please look on the previous page (about a third of the way down).. There you can see the questions I've asked Mark.. The "your church" wasn't even in the two posts that put forth the seven questions.. It was a completely different post..

      Mark claims to have answered my questions, but any competent person can read for themselves and determine that he is lying..

      Why should any nonbeliever consider the reasoning of someone who lies and tries to get away with it? What do you think that Mark's god would think about the lying and misrepresentation he's evidenced today?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
  9. Mark

    momoya wrote:

    "Yes, Mark, I mentioned "church.". You pointed out that you don't have one–even though the bible says all believers ARE the church.."

    So for me to say that "I have a church" would be to say "I have all believers"
    And you want to attack my character?
    Jesus is the one who said he would build "his church"...........Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Paul said the church is the body of Christ, not the body of Mark.............Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
    23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Paul also states that there is only "one body"............Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    Common sense should tell you if the body is the church, the church is the body and there is only one body then there is only one church (or one kind of church) That could only mean one thing, all these different kinds of churches named after men, teaching conflicting manmade doctrines are all lost and on their way to hell.

    No, I do not have a church. I am simply a member of the church the Lord built.
    I have to go for now. c ya

    April 4, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • momoya

      Mark, everyone here can verify for themselves that you are a liar.. (It's in the middle of the previous page of posts for anyone to look at)

      Not only that, but you've now lied about not lying..

      You know that the "your church" thing was irrelevant, and that's why you lie about it being relevant and pretending that your reply was any kind of answer at all..

      As it stands now, I've asked you the following questions at least 3 or 4 times, and YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER!

      Let's try it for the 5th or 6th time, why don't we? Here we go again, liar.

      1. Are you saying that there are some things god can't do, or won't do?.

      2. Is heaven's goodness beyond corruption?. Why call it heaven if it contains the factor of corruptibility?

      3. Is incorruptible goodness without a standard by which to judge the goodness?.

      4. If so, then how does god or any person know how good heaven is?.

      5. If not, why doesn't the bible explain the corruption by which the goodness of heaven is judged?

      6. Why couldn't god make a mechanism by which we could understand incorruptible goodness?.

      7. Can't God can make incorruptible goodness understandable?!?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
  10. Mark

    GodsPeople

    @Hellbent: if you actually READ the book of Ezra (assuming you can read and comprehend, which, for an atheist, would be a miracle in and of itself), you would see that what God is speaking of is mixing with those not like yourself. "Give not your daughters to their sons, nor take their daughters for your sons" is stating not to mix outside of the actual way He set things up, that all races are different because He wishes it that way.

    Of course you could just continue your illiterate and uneducated diatribes and make me laugh even harder.

    Now this is ignorance gone to seed.
    How can the bible be more clear.
    When God forbidded marriage it was not because of the color of their skin but simply because of idol worship, Notice.............De 7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
    4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

    Notice "For they will turn away thy son from following me" NOT "For they have a different skin color"
    How ignorant can you be.

    The bible says Eve was the mother of "all" living, .....Ge 3:20 ¶ And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

    God made "all" nations of "one blood",..............Ac 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

    God is no respecter of persons,.............Ac 10:34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    April 4, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • momoya

      Ok, so now we know that you are a liar, Mark..

      You never answered my questions.. Why can't your god get any honest people to represent him?? Why are most believers such hypocrites and liars like you?. Do you think you're fooling your god when you lie, here?. Do you think god is proud of the way you ignore your own argument when you don't feel it's going your way any longer?.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • GodsPeople

      Misinterpret often?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
  11. momoya

    Questions that take on Mark's arguments but he is choosing to ignore:

    Mark said that the reason god had to make the world good-yet-corruptible because without corruption we wouldn't have a way to evaluate the goodness god created, so:

    1. Are you saying that there are some things god can't do, or won't do?.

    2. Is heaven's goodness beyond corruption?. Why call it heaven if it contains the factor of corruptibility?

    3. Is incorruptible goodness without a standard by which to judge the goodness?.

    4. If so, then how does god or any person know how good heaven is?.

    5. If not, why doesn't the bible explain the corruption by which the goodness of heaven is judged?

    6. Why couldn't god make a mechanism by which we could understand incorruptible goodness?.

    7. Can't God can make incorruptible goodness understandable?!?
    .
    .

    And from Primewonk:

    1. Does your god claim to be omniscient?

    2. Is the definition of omniscient: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things?

    3. If 1 & 2 are true, does your god know – right this very minute – if you are going to heaven or hell?

    April 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Mark

      I answered you just refuse to accept the answer.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • momoya

      Ok, so now we know that you are a liar, Mark..

      You never answered my questions.. Why can't your god get any honest people to represent him?? Why are most believers such hypocrites and liars like you?. Do you think you're fooling your god when you lie, here?. Do you think god is proud of the way you ignore your own argument when you don't feel it's going your way any longer?.

      But hey, be proud of those lies, right?. Why don't you go ahead supply an answer to the questions, now?. What's stopping you?. Fear? God's not the author of fear, is he?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
    • Mark

      momoya,
      when you go back and recheck the post and see where I answered you, are you going to apologize?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • momoya

      Mark, you never answered my questions; you replied about not having a church which had nothing to do with anything..

      When do you plan on apologizing for lying, and when do you intend to answer questions based on YOUR REASONING??

      What are you so afraid of? Obviously not of being proven a liar..

      April 4, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      I don't agree with Marks premise but to answer your questions

      1. Won't
      2. Yes
      3. Please explain "Without a Standard" for there is a Standard and All have fallen short
      4. God is the standard
      5. Again not sure your point is clear but explaining man's corruption is best found in Romans 1:18ff
      6. No one said he couldn't but to quote Jesus "How can I explain to you heavenly things if you first can not grasp earthly things"
      7. Don't see why not, and in the new heaven and new earth we will understand when we walk with him again

      1. Yes
      2. Close enough
      3. Yes, God is outside of time so there is no "this very minute" but the answer is yes.

      Hope that helps.

      April 5, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
  12. HawaiiGuest

    I have yet to get any kind of rational answer for this question.

    Why would an all powerful god capable of creating the universe give half a crap about a bunch of violent little apes on a ball of dirt and metal.
    Even ignoring that question, why would an "all-loving" god judge us on belief rather than actions and the true nature of a persons heart? Why would a god that is supposedly so benevolent care what we worship as long as we live a good life and do our best to enrich mankind?
    I hope I'm pleasantly surprised that there will be an answer that consists of than "GOD SAID IN THE BIBLE...."

    April 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Mark

      Why should we do our best to "enrich mankind"????

      April 4, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • momoya

      Why should Hawaii answer you when you won't answer questions on YOUR OWN reasoning?. Perhaps Hawaii should follow your example and discuss your use of "the" in the post instead of addressing your question.. How soon will your refuse to engage on this topic any longer and skip to the next one you think might work?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  13. HawaiiGuest

    HawaiiGuest

    I have yet to get any kind of rational answer for this question.
    Why would an all powerful god capable of creating the universe give half a crap about a bunch of violent little apes on a ball of dirt and metal.
    Even ignoring that question, why would an "all-loving" god judge us on belief rather than actions and the true nature of a persons heart? Why would a god that is supposedly so benevolent care what we worship as long as we live a good life and do our best to enrich mankind?
    I hope I'm pleasantly surprised that there will be an answer that consists of than "GOD SAID IN THE BIBLE...."

    April 4, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Mark

      Why should we even try to "live a good life" If there is no God, no punishment after this life then why not steal your neigbours wife, car and money and go to Las Vegas and live it up?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • momoya

      Why should Hawaii answer you when you won't answer questions on YOUR OWN reasoning?. Perhaps Hawaii should follow your example and discuss your use of "the" in the post instead of addressing your question.. How soon will your refuse to engage on this topic any longer and skip to the next one you think might work?.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • J.W

      Personally I believe in God, but that is not the only reason I do not steal and murder and do whatever I want. I like to think I am a good person, not just good because I am scared not to be.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • HellBent

      @Mark, because:

      A. We are predisposed to be moral because we are evolutionarily programmed to be that way. We see evidence of morals and altruistic behavior in other social creatures. Beings which exist in a social environment will have an instinctive knowldge of how to operate efficiently in that being's society.

      and B. because a system of law and order long ago replaced the need for religion. There has been much work done recently on the evolutionary benefits of religion on primitive cultures. We're progressed beyond that. Religion today is more like an appendix. It's unnecessary, provides limited value, and occasionally kills.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @J.W.

      It's good that the you are not good solely for the reason of fear. But that still does not answer my original question.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Mark

      I see no reason to answer your idiotic post since you seem completely incapable of answering the questions that I put forth.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • momoya

      Do you see how an answer looks, now, Mark?. HellBent has show you how it's done.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I find it interesting that the most vocal "christians" on these forums have not said anything yet.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • J.W

      I think that what a person does is important. Some like to ignore the verses that say that it is important because then they feel like they can do whatever they want.

      April 4, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @J.W.

      I don't know what that has to do with the original post.

      April 4, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
  14. Waste of Time

    I'm never surprised at how much time you people waste by arguing about God on CNN message boards.

    April 4, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • momoya

      So you're surprised that people are discussing what 90% of the population believes in without one shred of proof?. I'm surprised at your surprise, then.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
  15. Nii

    USING MATHEMATICS GOD CAN BE OMNISCIENT WITHOUT BEING EVIL
    In eternity time is infinite. Probable events occur with a Probability of 1 to 0. In creating humans and angels (demon inclusive) with free will like Himself God introduces variability in eternity. He knows all probable events. THATS IT!

    April 4, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • YeahRight

      LMAO! Thanks for continuing to show the world your stupidity and why Christianity needs to be condemned.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Nii

      In writing an equation for numerical analysis by iteration. The desired outcomes are known. An error can however occur when wrong information is introduced. The programmer of a calculator knows this and will tell the calculator to give u a feedback of "ERROR". He knew u cud make such an error.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Nii

      Hahahaha!
      YEAHRIGHT
      Yes indeed in the past to be a priest meant becoming a scientist as well. It was when someone thought priests should be humanities majors that you could understand the little that they cud explain. Your brain is overheating I presume?

      April 4, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Nii

      Momoya
      If u remember this from old times
      "Why do you call me good for there is none good save God"
      If Heaven is a dimension evil cannot enter the angels could not rebel and become demons.
      No Good resides in God.
      that is what the Serpent meant by "you will become like God knowing good from evil".

      April 4, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
  16. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    April 4, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • momoya

      You're a very good representative for your god in that you keep repeating nonsense that leads people to disbelieve you more and more.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Jesus

      Troll ALERT – Prayer doesn’t not; you are so full of crap and lies. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      April 4, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • just sayin

      @momoya you didn't believe in the first place so who then are the "people"? God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • Jesus

      "@momoya you didn't believe in the first place so who then are the "people"?"

      Just sayin and Atheism INHFCAOLT are one and the same troll on this site.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • momoya

      @jus sayin

      I believed for nearly 50 years and have read the bible 7+times.. Try to be less dumb, if you can.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • just sayin

      Sadly momoya you have never been a believer but you are exceptionally good at lying to yourself and others. God bless.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • momoya

      @ just sayin

      Well, I didn't think I was lying to myself at the time, and several of those decades I was a somewhat renowned minister who saw "healings" and "powerful signs of god" in my ministry.. However, I was not a christian in the same way that no one is a christian since there is no Holy Ghost to do any "indwelling."

      But let's go along with your reasoning, just.. What you are claiming is that some people will spend their whole lives believing that they are saved–believing with their whole heart–believing against reason and argument–believing and praying without ceasing–and still wind up being judged as a non-believer by your god and be sent to hell.. What a complete azzhole god, you worship!!! One who will allow a person to firmly believe and worship their whole life without any reward at all.. Do you even recognize how disgusting your god is if your statement is correct??

      April 4, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • just sayin

      And at judgement God would say to you begone I never knew you. You were never a believer, I don't care what works you did or saw. I don't care what you read , you have confessed as much. Without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit you were truly never a Christian. You were deceived then and are a deceiver and a liar now.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • momoya

      @just sayin

      If there really was a Holy Spirit, there wouldn't be so much disagreement over who has it and who doesn't and what god wants of his believers..

      If God was really good, he wouldn't allow people to be deceived into thinking they were worshiping him correctly their whole life and trusting in him when they really weren't.

      If God wanted to be known, he would make himself as obvious as math and chemistry or more so.. Ether he doesn't want to be known, doesn't care to be known, or doesn't exist.

      If you had the slightest, tinniest, most insignificant piece of evidence for your god you'd have presented it by now and would be world-famous..

      Your brain has been taken over by a virus; sorry about that.. We're trying to help you.. Perhaps the longer you stay here the more reason will slowly sink it, but you may be beyond help and forever lost within your ridiculous delusion.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • just sayin

      There is no disagreement among the True Church. The disagreement is among the lost that like yourself mistakenly assumed Christ. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • just sayin

      The nature, the goodness of God is not in question here. You were deceived because you wanted to be deceived. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • just sayin

      God does want to known , so much so that he appeared as a man, the Lord Jesus Christ, as Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Everything Jesus did was so that a lost mankind could be reconciled to God. We know God through Christ and Christ alone.

      April 4, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • just sayin

      The last sign is the Son of God.God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • just sayin

      I am not the one with the problem you are. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • momoya

      @ just sayin

      At the time I professed christianity I firmly believed and prayed every day against being deceived by satan..

      There is no "true church" because there's no definitive way to tell who is "the true church" and who isn't.. What is the evidence of a "true believer" of "the true church" just?

      April 4, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • just sayin

      Yet you have already described how you were deceived. Had you read the Bible as you claimed you would have been aware of the obvious deception. You never firmly believed based on your own testimony concerning the Holy Spirit. All that remains is the question are you an accidental or deliberate liar. Reading your other posts I conclude deliberate. God bless

      April 4, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • Jesus

      "ou never firmly believed based on your own testimony concerning the Holy Spirit. All that remains is the question are you an accidental or deliberate liar. Reading your other posts I conclude deliberate."

      So are you so that makes you a hypocrite.

      April 4, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
  17. momoya

    @ Mark

    You SKIPPED OVER these questions to assert some silly thing that has nothing to do with anything (that you don't have a church)

    PLEASE ANSWER these questions:

    @Mark

    Are you saying that there are some things god can't do, or won't do?.

    Is heaven's goodness beyond corruption?. If so, then god is capable of making goodness that is incorruptible.. If not, why call it heaven.

    Is incorruptible goodness without a standard by which to judge the goodness?. If so, then how does god or any person know how good heaven is?. If not, why doesn't the bible explain the corruption by which the goodness of heaven is judged?

    Also, why couldn't god make a mechanism by which we could understand incorruptible goodness?. God can make incorruptible goodness understandable, can't he?!?

    April 4, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • HellBent

      The only rational, logical position is that the god of war that Isreal pledged its allegiance to is a total bloodthirsty sadist. But that's generally what you get when you make pacts with gods of war, imho.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • momoya

      Christians are so annoying when they refuse to provide reasoning for the arguments they put forth.. It's such immature behavior to ignore a fundamental position in order to discuss the particular shade of orange flower petal in the shade 30 feet down a rabbit trail.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Prayer changes things

      Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things. For proof, read anything by momoya.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Jesus

      "Prayer changes things

      Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things. For proof, read anything by momoya."

      More lies proving you can't even follow your own bible role book. What a hypocrite.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "But I have an idea that deep down you all know thats not the case and before you take that last breath you're going to calling out for someone and He's not going to be listening."

      It's funny how Christians have to tell themselves this lie in order to feel better about believing in something that doesn't exist.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Ok, that's weird this posted in the wrong place.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
  18. momoya

    To all believers in an omniscient god:

    If your god knows everything, then there's no point at all to what we humans do at all–much less what we believe about god or his existence.. Evangelism, therefore, is a pointless exercise, as is believing or worshiping god.. If god knows it will happen, then it will with or without any knowledge or action on your part; welcome to your futile existence.

    April 4, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • Mark

      If there is NO God and we all just evolved from some dead matter form some slime pit and when we die we are like rover, dead all over, then why not just drop the big one and put momoya and the rest of these pitiful rocks out of their misery.
      But I have an idea that deep down you all know thats not the case and before you take that last breath you're going to calling out for someone and He's not going to be listening..............Pr 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
      25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
      26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
      27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
      28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

      April 4, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • momoya

      Mark, why won't you answer my questions that take up YOUR line of reasoning?? Afraid?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Mark repeatedly claims that evolution is false. Yet, from his posts it is clearly evident that Mark doesn't have a frigging clue as to the science of evolution.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • momoya

      We need to start holding these believers accountable for their own words and their own lines of reasoning.. Just because they're giving god a pass on making sense doesn't mean we should allow them that same excuse.

      April 4, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  19. GodsPeople

    When Romney answered "no," he lied. It is a sin. Ezra Chapter 9 Verse 12 says very clearly, "give not your daughters to their sons, nor take their daughters for your sons.." God and God alone stated that race mixing is a sin. He created us in His image and with differences so that those differences could be celebrated by those who are different. It was not to mix rain and water and make a mud colored person.

    April 4, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • HellBent

      How in the world do you equate sons and daughters with difference races? Your god is against incest – good for him/it. You're just making stuff up.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • GodsPeople

      @Hellbent: if you actually READ the book of Ezra (assuming you can read and comprehend, which, for an atheist, would be a miracle in and of itself), you would see that what God is speaking of is mixing with those not like yourself. "Give not your daughters to their sons, nor take their daughters for your sons" is stating not to mix outside of the actual way He set things up, that all races are different because He wishes it that way.

      Of course you could just continue your illiterate and uneducated diatribes and make me laugh even harder.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • HellBent

      How's it going on actually figuring out what transubstantiation is? Accusing me of poor reading comprehension? That's what's laughable.

      If you can have such an obviously liberal interpretation of what words in the bible mean (sons and daughters actually means races – where's the support for that?!?!?!?), you can make the bible say WHATEVER you want, which is pretty much what every Christian has done for the last two millenia.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • GodsPeople

      You're talking about the Catholic Eucharist. Don't forget, I'm not Catholic, I'm Eastern Orthodox. The RCC is in error on many doctrines, a lot of which are NOT able to be substantiated by biblical reference. Eastern Orthodox actually has everything substantiated. To us, it's just a change. To the senses the items remain the same. It's the MEANING of the items that change.

      Again, as to the scripture, it is actually quite clear. God says not to mix with other races, therefore we should not, and anyone who does is sinning. Next?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Sorry GP, but you seem to be under the impression that we are a theocracy. We aren't.

      You fundiots racists are as sick as the fundiot ho.mophobes.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
  20. Mark

    Primewonk wrote:
    "Can you trick god? If god knows your ticket is punched to go to heaven, can you instead go to hell? If you can, then your god isn't omniscient. If you are scheduled to end up in hell, can you surprise god and show up in heaven? Wouldn't this mean that your god doesn't know everything?

    Again you have been taught the calvinistic doctrine of "predestination"
    God did not "pre-select" individuals from the foundation of the world and say "I'm going to save P, YR, and M" and "I'm going to condemn X, Y, and Z. When the bible speaks of "predestination" it is referring to His plan of salvation. When persons obey the gospel then they are said to have been "predestinated".............NOTICE, Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    Notice, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"
    "according to the good pleasure of his will,"

    How does the New will and testament say a person gets "into" Christ?............Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    You have a choice.

    April 4, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • HellBent

      But god knows your choice before you make it. So, for those going to hell, god knows that he(/she/it) knows he will create those beings who will live on earth for a fraction of a second and then get tortured for eternity. A loving god would simply not create a being just to stand by and watch it get tortured.

      Your god is a sadist.

      April 4, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Mark

      True, and He works providentially today trying to get you to make the right choices, not willing that any should perish, but He will not make the choice for you.

      April 4, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Primewonk

      If your god is omniscient, he knows exactly where you will end up. He knows where I will end up. He knows where everyone will end up. If he doesn't, then he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient, why worship him?

      If your god knows I am going to hell, how the hell can I show up in heaven? I have no choice but to end up where your god knows I am going.

      Again, your god creates billions of people just to torture them for all eternity.

      April 4, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • Mark

      Primewonk wrote:

      If your god is omniscient, he knows exactly where you will end up. He knows where I will end up. He knows where everyone will end up. If he doesn't, then he isn't omniscient. And if he isn't omniscient, why worship him?

      You see God as a dictator.
      God does know the hearts of men but He does not control them like robots. Man has choices, God knew from the foundation of the world that the man who makes the right choices would be saved.

      The bible speaks of Pharaoh "hardening his heart".......... Ex 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

      It also speaks of God hardening his heart.............. Ex 10:1 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

      When persons hear God's word they make a choice to receive it or reject it just as Pharaoh did and in that sense it can be said that God hardens their heart but actually they make the choice.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • HellBent

      While god may not be making the choices, he still sits idlely by and watches people get tortured. Your god said that it was better for people not to be born then to be eternally tortured – but then why did your god allow them to be born?

      Why do you worship a sadist?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • Mark

      Primewonk wrote:
      "If your god knows I am going to hell, how the hell can I show up in heaven?"

      Jesus said one must believe..........Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

      He also said one must repent...........Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

      He also said one must confess him...........Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
      33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

      He also said one must be baptized............Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

      You can "show up in heaven" by obeying God's word or your heart can be hardened by it and you will be condemned.
      You have a choice.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • HellBent

      Why is your god such a narcissist that he condemns people to eternal suffering that don't worship him. For an invisible omnipotent being, he sure has one heck of an inferiority complex.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Mark

      You stupid git, if god knows the end from the beginning, then people's decisions about god or correct worship are irrelevant..

      April 4, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Mark

      HellBent wrote:

      "While god may not be making the choices, he still sits idlely by and watches people get tortured. Your god said that it was better for people not to be born then to be eternally tortured – but then why did your god allow them to be born?"

      Do you not cherish life? Life is a blessing that God has given each individual and no He doesn't make the choices for us but has given us the ability to choose not to spend eternity in torment.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • HellBent

      Your god makes very unclear and contradictory rules about what one has to do to not get tortured when he could simply ... not torture people. You're really only making my case that your god is just plain evil. If your god was a human parent, society would throw him in jail so fast his head would spin.

      Of course, the far more rational position is that your god doesn't exist.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Mark

      You SKIPPED OVER these questions to assert some silly thing that has nothing to do with anything (that you don't have a church)

      PLEASE ANSWER these questions:

      @Mark

      Are you saying that there are some things god can't do, or won't do?.

      Is heaven's goodness beyond corruption?. If so, then god is capable of making goodness that is incorruptible.. If not, why call it heaven.

      Is incorruptible goodness without a standard by which to judge the goodness?. If so, then how does god or any person know how good heaven is?. If not, why doesn't the bible explain the corruption by which the goodness of heaven is judged?

      Also, why couldn't god make a mechanism by which we could understand incorruptible goodness?. God can make incorruptible goodness understandable, can't he?!?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Mark

      HellBent wrote:

      "Why is your god such a narcissist that he condemns people to eternal suffering that don't worship him. For an invisible omnipotent being, he sure has one heck of an inferiority complex."

      Who really does the condemning?.........Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
      19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Mark

      momoya wrote:

      "@ Mark

      You SKIPPED OVER these questions to assert some silly thing that has nothing to do with anything (that you don't have a church)"

      No, you're the one who made the reference to "your church"

      April 4, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Mark

      If salvation were a free gift, everyone would have it and god would have no reason to threaten hell or he could provide a "people extruder device" on hell's gates (like they make turtle extruder devices on fishing/shrimping nets).

      God built hell; god sustains hell; god enjoys the smoke of the torment of nonbelievers in hell; it's who god is: a terrorist more vile than any other–since no terrorist can sustain eternal torture for his enemies.

      April 4, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • momoya

      Yes, Mark, I mentioned "church.". You pointed out that you don't have one–even though the bible says all believers ARE the church..

      Your stupid dishonesty aside, why are you ignoring my questions?. Are you that much of a coward, or can god not help you answer for him without completely contradicting yourself in utter, abject stupidity?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Mark, like a proto typical fundiots, you dodge the question.

      1. Does your god claim to be omniscient?

      2. Is the definition of omniscient: having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things?

      3. If 1 & 2 are true, does your god know – right this very minute – if you are going to heaven or hell?

      April 4, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • HellBent

      God is the judge. Therefore he does the condemning. This really isn't very hard.

      Even if he doesn't condemn, he still sits idly by watching people – his creations! – get tortured for eternity. That's would be loving in the way an abusive spouse and parent is "loving"

      April 4, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.