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 The scene at Oikos University on Monday.
April 2nd, 2012
06:39 PM ET
Site of California shooting is Korean Christian collegeBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - A California college where authorities say that seven people were shot dead on Monday is a religious school that caters to the burgeoning Korean American Christian community. The number-one objective of Oikos University, in Oakland, California, is "to demonstrate a comprehensive knowledge of the Bible and an understanding of Christian doctrine," according to the school's website. Its number-two objective: "To develop an appreciation for the Korean and Korean-American church denomination heritage." The school is accredited to offer just a half-dozen degrees, according to California's bureau for Private Postsecondary Education, including an associate's degree in nursing, a bachelor's in biblical studies, a master's in Asian medicine and a doctorate in ministry. "Oikos University has a very specific goal and mission to offer education programs in the area of religious studies, music, and vocational nursing," the school's site says. Andrew Sung Park, a professor of theology and ethics at United Theological Seminary in Ohio, says that Korean-American Christianity probably represents the fastest-growing part of the Asian American religious landscape. The community is largely a legacy of American evangelizing in South Korea, which is now home to the world's largest Christian church. Most of 1.3 million Korean Americans are Christian, Park said, and they generally subscribe to an evangelical Protestant version of the faith. "There is a saying that when Koreans get together in the United States, they establish churches first," says Park, who is Korean-American. "Some other Asians are more concerned with businesses or finances, but Koreans care about religion and about Christianity." The school's focus on Oriental medicine, including classes on acupuncture and herbal medicine, speaks to the Koreans' holistic outlook on life, blending Eastern approaches to health and medicine with Western religion, even mixing Christianity with Korea's shamanistic traditions, Park says. "Koreans are very much interested in healing, faith healing, medical healing, spiritual healing... there is a oneness," he says. Oikos University, which takes its name from the Greek word for "house," espouses a literal view of the Bible, which the school's site describes as "infallibly and uniquely authoritative and free from error of any sort in all matters." The site promotes "the literal existence of Adam and Eve as the progenitors of all people, the literal fall and resultant divine curse on the creation, the worldwide cataclysmic deluge, and the origin of nations and languages at the tower of Babel." "We believe the realities of heaven and hell," the site says. –CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this story.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I know Jesus was smiling when he heard their prayers followed by screams. They lacked faith in God and his plan. Much good will come out of this. I also pray the shooter finds Jesus. God Bless
Like that story about the girl behind the couch while her dad killed her mother and Jesus was sitting there calming her down while her mother screamed in the background before dying. I am sure Jesus was with some at the school while they could hear their classmates scream out before being shot. Praise Jesus because he is there for those that need him. God Bless
When I saw this on the news I raised my hands in the air and screamed "PRAISE JESUS!"
Fraud! Everybody knows I wear diapers when I pray. Busted
Bottom line, you get right with God, or you end up like the 7. The number 7 clearly shows this is a message from God.
God bless
I cannot believe you just said that sh.it "just sayin". You know, saying what you just said shows signs of sociopathic behaviour. At this point, you've gone beyond the deep end, and although I've never said this to another person with conviction, I hope that there is a hell, because if there is I know that's where you would go with your complete disdain for the lives of others. You are a sick POS, and you really don't deserve the air you're breathing right now.
I am surprised you could bring yourself to capitalize God. Guess your ignorance does not go as deep as pretended.
I will pray for you that you ar eless judgemental.
@Hawaii guest
You are not responding to the just sayin you think you are.That one is the phony atheist. Ain't it cute. God bless
I feel sorry for you. God Bless
You know I really don't give a sh.it who said it. Atheist, theist, agnostic doesn't matter. It was messed up and should never have been posted. I satnd by my statement.
HawaiiGuest, there is no inbetween or riding the fence with prayer. All is God's plan and our failure to accept the outcome is not God's fault. God allowed the 7 to be killed for a reason. Praise Jesus!
I just prayed Dallas gets wiped out by a tornado.
Prayer changes lives
For the better
Proven
Is prayer troll taking handles now?
Either that, or William's IQ just plummeted below "Gump".
Now William, cut that out! You've been told that prayer changes things and that's been proven, and now look what you've done. Next time pray for a bunny. I want a bunny.
(PS – it will be sad but interesting to hear how many people in Texas attribute their survival to God watching over them, all the while overlooking the fact that others around them got screwed. Then they'll pat themselves on the back about how humble their faith is)
Prayer does not need to steal names. Often stolen from or impersonated, never do it. God bless
Prayer changes things
Prayer changes lives
For the better
Proven
You haven't proven crap, you are such a LIAR! You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs.!`
(1) given that the victims were probably praying desperately to be spared, the shooter in all likelihood prayed repeatedly to cope with his problems, and the parents of victims were no doubt praying that their children were not among the victims,
and (2) given that Christians boldly assert the simple power of prayer, but quickly make excuses when it doesn't work,
What is the excuse this time that all those prayers didn't protect anyone from anything? Where's the proof you speak of?
Bottom line, you are making a lot of what ifs, then demanding a factual answer. You have not provided enough true facts to make an informed assessment. God bless
Why does anybody respond to the prayer troll?
She has proven herself to be incredibly stupid every time she tries to say something beyond her usual three cliches, so she now avoids doing it.
The more people respond to her, the more she posts.
The best arguments in the world are totally ineffective because she just plain does not listen, and the worst abusiveness just encourages her.
Don't even look at what she writes. You know it's going to be stupid, so why bother. She does it out of spite to bother you, and you fall for it again and again.
Never give a bratty child the attention that she wants.
Why? Because of two wonderful Truths, first that atheism is totally useless and second talking with God is available to any who choose to. God bless ( a third Truth no extra charge)
Just Sayin: So, to paraphrase, your excuse is that maybe none of these people at a Christian school prayed?
God answered the prayers of the 7 dead with bullets to the head and body AMEN. Jesus was watching with a smile.
You got to laugh at people like Just sayin. lol Prayer never works for murder/ra p e victims
Prayer only works for true Christians. These victims were obviously not. We need to look at this as a lesson from God to seek his truth through prayer. Less you want to end up like the 7.
Yes, just look at Howard Camping. Prayer has changed his life for the better in 80 million ways
just sayin, just spewin hate again. Very christian!
Guns don't kill people; squirrels with large caliber handguns kill people, then plant the evidence on other people.
Those people in Oakland got popped because they kept walking by us and never shared their delicious peanut snacks and bead crumbs.
The day of reckoning has come!
Ykcyc
I earn more than you, my kids are brighter than you, and my women are better looking than yous.
You lose clown boy
Oooooooooh, I'm going to rally my hordes of rodent minions and go after you, William! We will be waiting on every rooftop with acorns to bonk you on the head with. It will be like God raining frogs on Egypt, except we are fresh out of frogs and other reptiles, and the aardvarks are way to heavy for us to rain down upon you. We need to find a use for the aardvards; we overbought. But I digress.
I am in the market for aardvarks.
Females, large busted?
Very sorry William, but we just sold the whole lot to the Muslims. They needed to populate their heaven for their martyrs. Apparently the whole 72 virgins thing is not species specific. I think some Muslims are going to be very surprised when they get to Allah heaven and see what their reward is.
There are 200 million weapons owned by private citizens in America. If the government does not address this growing problem I fear unarmed innocent civilians will keep on being slaughtered by frustrated cowards.
Finally, some truth in this forum.
Nuts with guns. Why did he have a gun? He had no rent money, yet he had a gun.
Guns don't kill people, mental patients do.
Guns don't kill people, abusive spouses do.
Guns don't kill people, religious fanatics do.
Guns don't kill people, rebigots and racists do.
So when people end up dead, I am supposed to act like I grieve?
We get what we sow people, and every right wing pro gun idiot has some of this blood on their hands.
Mine are clean!
Take guns away from lunatics? Then you have my support.
Otherwise, I don't care, it's your fault, not mine.
Exactly William. These nutters claim they need these personal armories in oder to protect themselves from criminals with guns.
Yet, where do these criminals get the guns they have?
They steal them. The steal them from the people who bought the guns to protect their stuff. And instead of protecting their stuff, they let even more guns get stolen and used to rob even more people.
@ William Demuth
You oversimplify, contradict yourself, and take the responsibility off yourself and place it on others.
If the solution was that simple, I am sure someone "smart", as yourself, would have been able to solve it by now.
If guns don’t kill people, why are you against gun ownership?
The fact is, there are already too many laws and regulations that are ineffective in stopping the criminal or a mentally ill individuals. The only people that obey the law are the law abiding citizens. The criminals and mentally ill don’t care about what the law says and will continue to get guns illegally. So, disarming the law abiding population, will make it that much easier for the ones that don’t care about what the law says.
You think your hands are clean? Your heart is in the wrong place.
Ykcyc
I am against gun ownership for the same reason I am against nuclear weapon ownership or poison gas ownership.
Humans are a dangerously stupid lot, who are often a risk to themselves. Your inability to see parody only proves that
Alas freedom requires us to tolerate that,and they can do as they want with themselves.
As for guns, they are designed to kill, which is NOT a freedom that an individual has.
You repuke nonesense from some propoganda mill and disregard the most glaring realities, like the pile of corpses in this school. If the shooter had no gun, the ten of them would have beat him to death.
You see you miss the point. It is not about finding the mentally ill and preventing them from having guns, its about realizing that anyone who wants a gun is mentally ill.
How many more must die before you grow up? Real men don't need guns. Only cowards, crack pots and religious zealots do.
@ Ykcyc – again, where are these criminals getting the guns they use to commit crimes?
Why have millions of people bought guns to protect their stuff, only to turn around and let their guns get stolen?
@William Demuth
Big words. Lots of pointless talk. It does not matter, what you say.
Do know how people get their guns?
They buy them, either legally or not. Same as drugs.
And you will never be able to prevent a nut case from getting and using one, if they want to.
Go ahead, get rid of your nuclear weapons. Why don't you? Lets see what happens.
Word of advice. Don't tell people you don't know to bend over.
Mark my words – what is inside you will make you bend over one day.
But it may already be too late. What is inside you, will be your reality.
Mark my words little man.
Some lead, and some follow.
You are a sheep, and I slaughter sheep.
You sound like a scre-wed up, unhappy, angry, raised by a crack-head parent, unable to maintain a relationship, perpetual 5yr. old.
You can do nothing. All you do is talk.
Get a real life or a job, at least.
Boooommmmmm, Demuth got owned once again. That guy is an obvious loser whose rantings resemble that of a 45 year old unemployed former 7-11 clerk.
Ykcyc
I buy clowns like you and feed them to my kids.
Keep believing in drivel loser.
If we can disarm the trigger happy cops for starters, you may have a point. William.
Hmmm where was god? Watching and enjoying perhaps?
I was out having a smoke. My bad.
"I was out having a smoke"
And jesus was busy fixing basketball and football games.
Prayer is delusional.
@William Demuth
Based on your comments, you are not that much different from that, which you despise the most. You have to be a loving human being, first. But you are dead inside and don't even know it. I feel sorry for you.
Thank you.
Pray for me.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But I have plenty of love to share.
Bend over, and I shall demonstrate!
No. Praying is a waste of time. One thing is for sure – there is nothing good or useful that you will bring in to this world. You are creating your own hell, here and now. Who knows, maybe you also will be in the news one day. I am OK with everything, either way.
Ykcyc
Hell? A story for children!
You fear the truth. The world is what it is, I suggest you make the best of it.
I am quite pleased with my world, if you can say the same be happy.
But don't be patronizing and silly.
Prayer changes things-
Didnt work well for the victims
Prayer changes things
Proven.
Most Christians will claim that prayer is simple and powerful. "Prayer changes things." "Ask and you shall receive" "God answers prayer." "whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours"
Christians quickly backpedal and equivocate when it is made obvious that these claims aren't true. Then it becomes "Well, it may not be the answer you want." "Sometimes no answer is an answer." And the big get-out-of-jail-free card, "It's all part of God's plan." There's always these bold assertions, followed by weak excuses for why they aren't actually true.
What's your excuse for this tragedy?
Cain and Able comes to mind. Murder, the evil in a man's heart at its worst.
Of course, Abraham and his son – that was loving murder. As long as the voice in your head telling you to kill people comes from God, then it's fine.
@Just Sayin: So evil is the excuse prayer didn't work? Evil is more powerful than prayer?
~WOmandarax
whats our excuse? so you are insinuating it is our fault. well, i dont see any of the po-po at my front door. maybe you should ask the shooter himself why. obviously the dude didnt like christians, so he was probably an atheist. I should be asking you why, is that fair? Just because he went to a religious school doesnt mean he was religious. I know many atheists that go to church for the good of the community. If you did your research like many atheists dont, then you would have found he was teased and bullied.
~No it doesn't you are so full of crap and lies. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs.!`
You understand neither sin nor prayer, one more failure and you're out. God bless
"You understand neither sin nor prayer, one more failure and you're out. God bless"
You are the same poster as atheist and a proven liar so you are the one who doesn't understand your lying is a sin.
Whoa, settle down jdubz. I was not accusing you or any other Christian of being responsible for this. My question was,
(1) given that the victims were probably praying desperately to be spared, the shooter in all likelihood prayed repeatedly to cope with his problems, and the parents of victims were no doubt praying that their children were not among the victims,
and (2) given that Christians boldly assert the simple power of prayer, but quickly make excuses when it doesn't work,
What is the excuse this time that all those prayers didn't protect anyone from anything?
@just sayin Cain and Able comes to mind. Murder, the evil in a man's heart at its worst.
Oh no. I had an evangelical, fundamentalist mother. And from very personal experience I can tell you that simply killing someone, is far from the worst evil the human heart can do
"Cain and Able comes to mind."
Oh, yes. Tell us ANOTHER fairy tale, just lyin. Let me let you in on a little secret. There were no "Cain and Able". BTW, for claiming to know your bible so well, perhaps one would know the correct spelling of Abel.
God is Good!
God bless the victims...god' swill was done...all part of the plan
Murder is not part of Gods plan. Murder is the evil in men's hearts on display. From the righteous Able to the victims this very day God receives in compassion His children and holds retribution until the fullness of sin is complete. Do not be deceived the day of retribution will come.
Except, of course, when God murders people. Like when he killed a bunch of Egyptian infant newborns to try and (not too successfully) make a point. Then it's cool. Also, murdering disobedient children – also ok. And slaves, under certain conditions. But other than that (and a few other exceptions), murder is definitely not in God's plan.
I thought everything was God's plan? More doublethink. God is everything – omnipotent and good...except for things that are clearly bad. Those are not God.
You're a LIAR and there is no god.
Do not be deceived the day of retribution will come. The day where we will put on diapers and act like Jesus!
@just sayin :” From the righteous Able to the victims this very day God receives in compassion His children and holds retribution until the fullness of sin is complete.”
If he was all that compassionate and since he is all powerful, why didn’t he just prevent them from being murdered?
Let's shoot 'em all!
Had made shooting Christians as one of my adventures
Really? Who is "them"? Is it those, who look differently or those, who's personal opinion is different from the one you believe to be the only "true one". In either case, you are one sick fook.
!!!
My prayers to out to those impacted by this tragedy.
=================
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg – or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse."
"You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." – c.s. lewis
Any bets on how long it'll take before Chad starts trying to teach biology?
C.S. Lewis was a good writer and his writing can mask the weak foundation upon which his arguments lie. In the quote above, for example, the assumption is that one must take the gospels to be a historically accurate account of exactly what the man (Jesus) said and did. If, however, one does as Jefferson did and simply remove the hocus-pocus parts, it is possible to arrive at a sound moral philosophy that requires no divinity.
@*facepalm* "...[do] as Jefferson did and simply remove the hocus-pocus parts, it is possible to arrive at a sound moral philosophy that requires no divinity"
=>certainly it is possible to re-write Jesus to fit in with whatever preconceived notion you want Him to fit, but that is not dealing with the actual real historical Jesus.
To do that, one must answer two questions:
1. Do we know what the original authors wrote: Are the Gospels and other NT letters reliable? Do we know what the original authors wrote, or has that original message been lost through transmission?
Clearly, the answer to that question is an overwhelming yes.
"A similar type of textual criticism is applied to other ancient texts.[106] There are far fewer witnesses to classical texts than to the Bible, and unlike the New Testament where the earliest witnesses are often within a couple decades of the original, the earliest existing manuscripts of most classical texts were written about a millennium after their composition. For example, the earliest surviving copies of parts of the Roman historian Tacitus' main work, the Annals of Imperial Rome (written in 116 AD), come from a single manuscript written in 850 AD, although for other parts of his work, the earliest copies come from the 11th century, while other parts of his work have been lost.[104] The earliest copies of The Jewish War by Josephus (originally composed in the 1st century AD), in contrast, come from nine manuscripts written in the 10th, 11th and 12th centuries.[104] After the bible, the next best preserved ancient work is Homer's Iliad, with 650 copies originating about 1,000 years after the original copy.[104] Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War (written in the 50s BC) survives in nine copies written in the 8th century.[107] Thucydides' history of the Peloponesian War and Herodotus' history of the Persian War (both written in the 5th century BC) survives in about eight early copies, the oldest ones dating from the 10th century AD.[107] Biblical scholar F. F. Bruce has said "the evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning...It is a curious fact that historians have often been much readier to trust the New Testament records than have many theologian" – wikipeida
2. Did the authors accurately record information, or did they make stuff up to fit some agenda?
Again, using the same textual analysis, the overwhelming conclusion is that the narratives are accurate recordings. See Albert Schweitzer for example, N.T. Wright for more recent scholarly treatment.
@*facepalm* "...[do] as Jefferson did and simply remove the hocus-pocus parts, it is possible to arrive at a sound moral philosophy that requires no divinity"
=>certainly it is possible to re-write Jesus to fit in with whatever preconceived notion you want Him to fit, but that is not dealing with the actual real historical Jesus.
To do that, one must answer two questions:
1. Do we know what the original authors wrote: Are the Gospels and other NT letters reliable? Do we know what the original authors wrote, or has that original message been lost through transmission?
Clearly, the answer to that question is an overwhelming yes.
"A similar type of textual criticism is applied to other ancient texts.[106] There are far fewer witnesses to classical texts than to the Bible, and unlike the New Testament where the earliest witnesses are often within a couple decades of the original, the earliest existing manuscripts of most classical texts were written about a millennium after their composition. For example, the earliest surviving copies of parts of the Roman historian Tacitus' main work, the Annals of Imperial Rome (written in 116 AD), come from a single manuscript written in 850 AD, although for other parts of his work, the earliest copies come from the 11th century, while other parts of his work have been lost.[104] The earliest copies of The Jewish War by Josephus (originally composed in the 1st century AD), in contrast, come from nine manuscripts written in the 10th, 11th and 12th centuries.[104] After the bible, the next best preserved ancient work is Homer's Iliad, with 650 copies originating about 1,000 years after the original copy.[104] Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War (written in the 50s BC) survives in nine copies written in the 8th century.[107] Thucydides' history of the Peloponesian War and Herodotus' history of the Persian War (both written in the 5th century BC) survives in about eight early copies, the oldest ones dating from the 10th century AD.[107] Biblical scholar F. F. Bruce has said "the evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning...It is a curious fact that historians have often been much readier to trust the New Testament records than have many theologian" – wikipeida
2. Did the authors accurately record information, or did they make stuff up to fit some agenda?
Again, using the same textual analysis, the overwhelming conclusion is that the narratives are accurate recordings. See Albert Schweitzer for example, N.T. Wright for more recent scholarly treatment.
@Chad
Nice post and I couldn't agree more. Don't count on facepalm responding though bc atheists tend to run when confronted with real evidence that requires some sort of critical thinking. It's not that they're not capable of critical thinking, it's that they're scared to ever think that any evidence could point to God being real and they typically just ignore legitimate posts.
Overwhelmingly yes? Chad, please. Your copy-paste from the wiki on Josephus is evidence that the gospels are "overwhelmingly" accurate? You must have failed high school history. Jospeus wrote his work decades after Jesus died and only mention that people followed the teachings of Jesus. He did not, nor could he, vouch for the authenticity or accuracy of the gospels. If you honestly think that works written decades after events happened by people who weren't there and where no primary sources of evidence existed can be relied on as being 'overwhelming' accurate, then you really should revisit your definition of "accurate"
@Ehhhh – do you have anything other than insults to add? At least Chad can read and copy-paste an argument. What do you have to contribute?
@*facepalm* "... Josephus is evidence... "
=>As one would expect given that the Bible is the most heavily read/researched book in the entire history of civilization, Josephus is only one relatively small part of the evidence supporting those two claims.
wiki is always a good place to start to get the broad secular consensus, as I pointed out the more in-depth research from N.T. Wright is excellent.
Wikipedia might indeed be a decent place to start for a broad consensus, but not for a broad SECULAR consensus. Religious people contribute to Wikipedia too, ya know. Given the demographics of our world, most of the contributors are probably believers. Perhaps you are so far to the extreme that even a moderate treatment seems radically secular to you.
Prayer is delusional.
OK christards, riddle me this?
When a public school gets shot up you dooshebags come out of the woodwork saying the same crap...."That's what happens when you force religion out of our schools".
So what is the reason that this school got shot up?
Jeebus take the day off?
God hates Koreans?
Satan lives in Oakland?
Come on jesus idiots. If you are going to spout off when a public school gets shot up, at least try to make some excuse when a religious school gets shout up.
Or am I right that you are all just a bunch of blabbering dilweeds?
A fair challenge, but you underestimate the power of double-think. For example, when a church is spared by a tornado, "the Shepherd protects his flock." When it is hit "the Lord works in mysterious ways."
He was a disgruntled student that came back and shot up the school.
"He was a disgruntled student that came back and shot up the school"
So then you admit that religion has nothing to do with whether or not schools get shot up?
Does anyone have a word of compassion for the victims? I don't know what's worse, the crime itself or the crime of insensitivity.
No.
Compassion is a luxury I can ill afford.
If you lay down with dogs, you get shot.
The measure you use is the measure you will receive. God has accepted His own into His eternal kingdom, since Cain murdered the righteous Able this has been a human problem. People like willie will be judged according to their compassion, more is he to be pitied. God bless
Although a stupid movie, the scene where Cain killed Able in Year One was pretty funny. Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot piiiieeee.... (anybody know what that's from?)
"Just Shoot Me.".
I have no doubt that the crime itself is far worse – the other is just hyperbole. For me, my frustration with the whole body of lies surrounding prayer is based on sensitivity to these victims and others. All the involved parties were indoctrinated into delusion that doesn't help anyone, and more victims will follow. You are right, though, that it is respectful to keep in mind that these are real people we are talking about, and we should reflect on them with sympathy.
@ Momoya ~~ Thanks for playing. One of my fav characters from that show!!
Prayer changes things .
Seven of Ten died.
If prayer worked either all ten would be dead, or none would.
If prayer REALLY worked, YOU would be among the dead.
I shall keep praying.
Prayer changes things
A good man prays
And is heard
No it doesn't you are so full of crap and lies. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs.!
Mmost Christians will claim that prayer is simple and powerful. "Prayer changes things." "Ask and you shall receive" "God answers prayer." "whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours"
You guys only backpedal and equivocate when it is made obvious that these claims aren't true. Then it becomes "Well, it may not be the answer you want." "Sometimes no answer is an answer." And the big get-out-of-jail-free card, "It's all part of God's plan." There's always these bold assertions, followed by weak excuses for why they aren't actually true.
"Prayer changes things
A good man prays
And is heard"
I guess jeebus had his bose noise canceling head phones on yesterday.
@derp : You know too little about prayer to make a serious comment. God bless
"You know too little about prayer to make a serious comment"
Ok christard, enlighten me. I would assume that once the shooting started, everyone prayed not to get killed. Some people got killed, some didn't.
In the event that some gun nut comes into my workplace and starts shooting the joint up, exactly how do I pray so that god hears me and not the other people?
Seriously, I don't want to be dead. God obviously picks out who's prayers he is going to listen to and who he is not. There are a few people in my office, who I would not mind so much if they got killed. So, exactly how do I pray better than they do so that god saves me and lets them get killed?
Obviously you are an authority on prayer, so please let us all in the secret to a successful "death deflection" prayer.
From reading the comments to this news story, it is obvious to me who people hate. It is the Christian, and the God they worship, that people hate.
Careful, your Persecution Complex is showing.
Yup.
A cult is an evil thing, and I am only calling a spade a spade.
Your religion is a filthy and dangerous thing, and like all forms of bigotry, it must be eliminated.
Awww, The Hated....feeling a bit put upon? My heart bleeds for you.
We'd have no problems if Chrstians actually behaved as Christ mandated.
There's very little humility, charity, compassion or forgiveness evident in most self-professed christian's behaviour.
"It is the Christian, and the God they worship, that people hate"
We don't hate you, we just think you are dumb.
You poor Christians are sooooo persecuted. Look how you were just barely able to get Texas to rewrite textbooks to your liking. Look how hard it is to maintain that unwritten law that only Christians can be President. Why, one has to walk one or sometimes even two blocks to find a church looming over them. Give me a break.
I don't hate religious people! They are so freaking hilarious! Watching someone try to debate when their side has no evidence at all to support their position is absolutely priceless! Watching people attribute specific attributes to their god when they cannot even show there is a slight chance he exists – fine entertainment! Listening to people describe how their invisible friend is going to torture me forever for not accepting the existence of his the invisible friend that I cannot see or sense in any way, shape, or form.
Great stuff!