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Your take: Comments on Jesus deniers
Jesus depicted healing a sick child.
April 8th, 2012
09:37 PM ET

Your take: Comments on Jesus deniers

Our story on a small cadre of authors challenging the existence of Jesus Christ drew almost 5,000 comments on Easter Sunday, with some upset that we did the story, others objecting to its publication on Easter, and plenty of others defending the article and the run date and debating the merits and implications of the debate.

Of course, most comments had nothing to do with our story, revolving instead around the debate about legitimacy of religion itself.

A sampling of the criticism:

Easter on CNN

You've gone too far.

While I am an advocate of spiritual exploration – by atheists to disprove or by the faithful to validate – running an article questioning the very core of a religious belief system on a holy day is indelicate, to say the least. Will you question that Muhammad received the word of God, running similar articles during Ramadan? Or on Yom Kippur, draw on conjecture to argue that the Book of Life is for fools?

This is not journalism. This sensationalist pander.

edeveryday

I would like to see if CNN would dare run a story saying that Muhammad was a "myth" on the Muslim' s holiest holidays and that Abraham was a "myth" on the Jewish holidays. Go ahead CNN and give it a try and see what happens.

rbsrs

Every Easter?...I mean why a negative story every Easter?? It has become a running joke.

ANGRY AT CNN!!!

CNN: IF YOU READ THIS GO TO HELL FOR YOUR ANTI-CHRISTIAN BIGOTRY THIS EASTER SUNDAY!!!!

Many other readers took aim at the critics:

JHC

To those who are insulted by this article,

If your faith is so weak that it cannot stand up to being looked at from an objective, historical, evidence based perspective, then this article is the least of your problems.

nomdefaitour

It is ironic that so many christians are "offended" at a dialogue about religion sponsored by CNN instead of greeting the opportunity to express their views. Perhaps they are shamed that we all know they are surfing the web when they should be worshipping on Easter Sunday.

Others weighed in on the merits and upshot of the debate over Jesus' existence:

JBOO

I do not doubt that a man named Jesus existed, and that he probably did preach about God. But I believe he was no different than any cult leader today that preaches about their own religious beliefs and gains a small number of followers. The difference with Jesus is that Christianity was already more wide spread, and the general population was very uneducated and easily influenced by a great orator. Do I actually believe their is a God, and Jesus is his son? No. But I'm sure the man existed.

Keith

It is actually more reasonable than not to conclude that Jesus was an actual living person. Whether or not he was "the Christ" is the only worthwhile point of debate. Regardless, many of the teachings of Jesus are worthy of people to take to heart whether they are Christians or not. As an agnostic, I take those things that are wise from any and all religions, and leave behind those things that are destructive.

gimmeslack12

I don't care whether he really existed or not. It's his story that never happened, at least the son of god part and dieing and coming back to life stuff. What matters to Christians is that he is a support system that is able to take the blame for all the bad stuff in your life so that you can move past them and continue living.

I was thinking about it the other day, and I think Jesus really is a great thing, because it allows people to psychologically take pressure, grief or guilt and remove the effects of anxiety and pressure that those feelings create. On the flipside it possible allows someone to conjure up Love by themselves.

I think Jesus is a psychological whipping boy for all things that people don't have or can't (don't want to?) deal with. So I think atheists and non-Christians (heck, maybe Christians themselves) are missing the point about the importance of Jesus to some people.

The Twitter conversation over the article was mostly complimentary:

@JoshTheLink

Interesting debate from CNN's site about whether or not Jesus was a real person: https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/?hpt=hp_c1

@CommonDescent

CNN asks: Did Jesus exist? https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/?hpt=hp_c2 Honestly, this is a topic I don't know much about. I'd like to learn more.

@TTCNews

CNN interviews two Thoughtful Christian authors for this intriguing question–Craig A. Evans... http://fb.me/1idvhPxXD

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Easter • Jesus

soundoff (2,443 Responses)
  1. Pipe-Dreamer

    Not any more!!!!!!

    April 10, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
  2. Keith

    Isn't it cool that my comment is one of them on top?

    April 10, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
  3. John

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videoseries&w=640&h=360]

    April 10, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
  4. Mary Davis

    GOD created the heavens and the Earth. GOD created everything in our universe. GOD gave every human being
    life. GOD can also take a life. GOD knew the plan for every human being's life before they were ever born. GOD
    brought his"ONLY" son into the world. JESUS lived. JESUS died for the sins of "ALL" of mankind. I "KNOW"
    that if I live a life that is pleasing to GOD, I WILL spend my eternity with GOD, the Father and JESUS, the son.
    The HOLY BIBLE is a blueprint for our lives! I LOVE GOD and I LOVE JESUS! I AM A CHRISTIAN...........FOR LIFE!!!

    April 10, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, yippee for you.

      You don't get to decide for others. Keep your religious beliefs out of the laws of this secular nation, and I'll have no problem allowing you to have your delusions.

      April 10, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
  5. Muneef

    You know could it have been as it seems that in the end Moses (saw) has led the Twelve Tribes of Ishmael through the exudes from Egypt and not Israel....!? 

    “ And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of 12 rulers, and I will make them into a great nation. ”
    —Genesis 17:20

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael

    The 12 Tribes of Ishmael
    http://nabataea.net/12tribes.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qahtanite
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

    April 10, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Reality

      And in today's world:

      Our War on Terror and Aggression:

      An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

      The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent and Not So Recent Body Count

      As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

      The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

      ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

      and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

      and more recently

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

      19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

      20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

      21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

      22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

      23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "
      Continued below:
      Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

      -Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles as of 09/15/2011/, 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      – Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed mostly due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,

      – Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.

      – Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

      – North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.

      – Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

      – The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

      – – Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      – Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols escaped the death penalty twice because of deadlocked juries. He was sentenced to 161 consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole,[3][7] and is incarcerated in ADX Florence, a super maximum security prison near Florence, Colorado. He shares a cellblock that is commonly referred to as "Bombers Row" with Ramzi Yousef and Ted Kaczynski

      – Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.

      – Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

      – Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
      – The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

      The capture of Ratko Mladić: (Serbian Cyrillic: Ратко Младић, pronounced [râtkɔ mlǎːditɕ], born 12 March 1943[1][2]) is an accused war criminal and a former Bosnian Serb military leader. On May 31, 2011, Mladić was extradited to The Hague, where he was processed at the detention center that holds suspects for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).[3] His trial began on 3 June 2011.

      – the bloody terror brought about by the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

      – Bin Laden was executed for crimes against humanity on May 1, 2011

      – Ditto for Anwar al-Awlaki on September 30, 2011

      April 11, 2012 at 12:26 am |
  6. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things. .

    April 10, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not change anything; you are so full of crap and lies. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs! ~,~ .

      April 11, 2012 at 10:43 am |
  7. Muneef

    Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not tell you that I have the depositories [containing the provision] of Allah or that I know the unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I only follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind equivalent to the seeing? Then will you not give thought?" 6:50
    ---
    And when you, [O Muhammad], do not bring them a sign, they say, "Why have you not contrived it?" Say, "I only follow what is revealed to me from my Lord. This [Qur'an] is enlightenment from your Lord and guidance and mercy for a people who believe." 7:203
    --–
    And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who do not expect the meeting with Us say, "Bring us a Qur'an other than this or change it." Say, [O Muhammad], "It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I only follow what is revealed to me. Indeed I fear, if I should disobey my Lord, the punishment of a tremendous Day." 10:15
    --–
    Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims." 16:102
    --–
    Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord – let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone." 18:110
    ---
    O Prophet, fear Allah and do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. 33:1

    And follow that which is revealed to you from your Lord. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted. 33:2

    And rely upon Allah ; and sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. 33:3
    --–
    Say, O [Muhammad], "I am only a man like you to whom it has been revealed that your god is but one God; so take a straight course to Him and seek His forgiveness." And woe to those who associate others with Allah – 41:6
    ---
    And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a part-ition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise. 42:51

    And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path – 42:52

    The path of Allah , to whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Unquestionably, to Allah do [all] matters evolve. 42:53
    --–

    April 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Reality

      o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
      o
      "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

      "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

      "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

      "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

      "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

      "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

      "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

      "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

      "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

      "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

      "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

      "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

      "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

      "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

      April 11, 2012 at 12:24 am |
  8. Isaiah 53:5

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9RDHHpfKJw&w=640&h=360]

    April 10, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • Isaiah 53:5

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFrocL3U8c&w=640&h=360]

      April 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
  9. Guest

    My d1ck is your god

    April 10, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      I don't believe in your d1ck.

      April 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
  10. What puzzles Pipe-Dreamer

    Do special forces of unknowabilities by mankind's fields of science have faith in their namecalling and/or name labelling these unseeable issues of yet unprovable grounds?

    April 10, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
  11. What puzzles Pipe-Dreamer

    Is the cohesion of cellular structures dependent upon unseen forces whose special values are labeled for the benefits and welfares of scienctific unknowables?

    April 10, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
  12. God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD! AKA Pipe-Dreamer

    Without God's unseen forces our bodies which are God's buildings would all fall apart! Gravity may well keep our bodies (being God's buildings) from flying into outer space yet gravity is not the unseen force that keeps us whole! Science has yet to offer a truth as to just why our bodies remain glued together! Can anyone among us tell us what this unseen force is that keeps one's body together? What is this glue in any Life Formation?

    April 10, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Ummm

      Dude really go back to science glass, you're embarrassing yourself.

      The strong interaction holds the quarks and gluons together to form the protons and neutrons. A side-effect of that interaction (the nuclear force) holds those nucleons together against the electrostatic repulsion that would tend to move the protons apart. The electric force holds the electrons in orbit around the nucleus.

      As atoms get closer to each other, their electron clouds tend to repel each other, but their orbits shift relatively easily. These 'enemies' might stay in the same room, but they drift toward opposite ends of the room. As the atoms get still closer, the positive nuclei tend to repel each other. Under the right conditions, some outer electrons find that they can achieve an orbit with a lower energy if they orbit both nuclei instead of just their own. It's enough of an energy difference to overcome some of the repulsion between the nuclei, and still have energy to spare. A carbon atom could thus form covalent bonds with two oxygen atoms. Carbon just burned to form carbon dioxide and release energy. The interactions of these valence electrons is the field of chemistry.

      Each such collection of covalently bonded atoms is a molecule.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      Uh, cellular membranes, proteins and peptides hold us together at a macroscopic level. Then there's covalent and electron bonding as well as the strong force, weak force and electromagnetic forces. It's pretty much biology and physics 101.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Robert

      Cells are keep together by means of a process called "cell adhesion". Single cells have special molecules in their surface that act as glue among them. These molecules are of three types called cell adhesion molecules (CAMs), substrate adhesion molecules (SAMs) and cell junctional molecules (CJMs). All these molecules help cells to stay together without falling apart.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD! AKA Pipe-Dreamer

      Ummmmmm,,,,

      "The strong interaction,,,,?"
      Could you per chance mean the "elemental gods' love as being this "strong interaction"?

      "A side-effect of that interaction (the nuclear force) holds those nucleons together against the electrostatic repulsion that would tend to move the protons apart."

      Maybe the Holy Spirit's role is to keep these "elemental gods" in check so to speak? Even the ancient Romans and Grecians Theological Philosophers knew of Life's smallest forms and they did call them "elemental gods"! Who's to say otherwise?

      People who dare look into the microscopic Cosmos of living structures will see cellular stuctures in motion. Correct?

      God has granted us dominion over all matters here upon and within, He, God does not mind us our reasonings for wanting to label things in our own versions for understanding Cosmologies wholesomeness! 🙂

      April 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • Ummm

      "God has granted us dominion over all matters here upon and within, He, God does not mind us our reasonings for wanting to label things in our own versions for understanding Cosmologies wholesomeness! "

      There is no proof of your god science has answered how we stay together. Wow the delusional stupidity of people is why society is headed downhill.

      April 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Pipesmoker, you're a troll, pure and simple. Mostly simple.

      The tripe you type is nothing but drivel.

      April 10, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
  13. God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD! AKA Pipe-Dreamer

    As God shows us, we learn to live with our mistakes. But the mistaken things one will not give up will be humnisms' undoing! Do you not need a microscope to see into God's buildings? Because of the microscope we see into God's buildings but science has put assunder any thanks to God for his building ways!

    1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

    April 10, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • QS

      Had a feeling you were the same person....your comments from either name are equally inane.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      Utter gibberish.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
  14. Reality

    AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

    (only for the newcomers)

    Joe Smith had his Moroni.

    "Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

    Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

    Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

    Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day dem-on of the de-mented.

    The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

    Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

    April 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
  15. J

    “I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom,
    and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day.”
    Abraham Lincoln

    "All that I am or hope to be I owe to my angel mother. I remember my mother's prayers and they have always followed me. They have clung to me all my life."
    Abraham Lincoln

    April 10, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” – Thomas Jefferson

      "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson

      "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." -Thomas Jefferson

      April 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      "I ain't lookin' for help from on-high. That's a long wait for a train don't come." – Malcolm Reynolds, “Serenity"

      April 10, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes" [Letter to von Humboldt, 1813]. – Thomas Jefferson

      April 10, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • J

      I wonder what Thomas Jefferson thinks now. =>

      One day we shall all know.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      John Adams 1735-1826, 2d President of the United States

      "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." [ in a letter to Thomas Jefferson] – John Adams

      "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." – John Adams

      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -John Adams

      "Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Supersti.tion and dogmatism cannot confine it." – John Adams

      "But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed." – John Adams

      "Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years." – John Adams

      April 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • QS

      "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist."

      – Stephen Hawking

      April 10, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • J

      1) I've had my own spiritual experience that left no doubt that there is a spiritual dimension that we are all blind to. I was with friends on vacation. I'm a Christian but not a praying/reading the Bible kind of Christian at that time (about 7 years ago). My friend was. Woke up in the middle of the night. She was talking in her sleep but it wasn't her voice. Demonic. Freaked me out. Asked the other girl if she was awake and had heard that. She had. We woke her up. She said: we need to pray now! (Me thinking: alrighty then). She started praying intensely out loud. Next thing I know, I feel something shoving me down into the bed (small of my back). I started praying. As I prayed, I felt that arm/whatever shoving me down. Then I felt wings: leathery, bat-like wings flying around the room fast. Suddenly an intense light flung them away.

      Crazy but true. They all felt it.

      2) Other than that,I've only had experiences where I've felt a light as I've prayed intensely.

      3) I've heard/read plenty of stories of people who have had very real experiences....angels, demons, heaven (as they lay dying).

      But, you're right, all of this must be pure delusion...on the part of many, many people.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      Uh, what you just described is kind of the definition of schizophrenia or night terrors, J, whatever it is though, it is just anecdotal garbage and certainly not proof of the divine, let alone the Christian god. I suggest you find a shrink.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • J

      Ha. That's hysterical. And that's what I call being closed-minded.

      Yes, you are right. Anyone who experiences something different than what you have experienced must be completely crazy even though it has been experienced by many people.

      Read the Screwtape Letters sometimes. C.S. Lewis (Oxford professor). This book describes the concept well.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @J – "Crack is Whack." – Whitney Houston

      April 10, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I wonder what Thomas Jefferson thinks now. =>

      One day we shall all know."

      Or not

      April 10, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      Sorry, J, but you cannot describe demonic possession and be expected to be taken seriously by any thinking person. That's not me being closed minded, you're talking to an Apostate here, that's just me not taking your crazy anecdote to be the truth without concrete evidence to support it.

      And I have read Lewis, it was his poorly reasoned 'arguments' that in part helped drive me away from Christianity. That and actually reading the Bible for myself.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • Snow

      Oh.. I think I have seen that movie too..

      April 10, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • QS

      Closed minded? Like saying "one day we shall all know" isn't?

      You imply that regardless of what others believe, yours is the only one that should matter....and then go on to tell others that THEY are closed minded because they refuse to believe your ghost story?

      Now THAT'S hysterical!

      April 10, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • J

      Interesting. So someone's actual experience (unlike anything they have ever experienced before) cannot be reasonable even if shared at that time by 2 others and although shared many times by other random people?

      Interesting hypothesis. I guess the scientific method doesn't work after all. Just say it's implausible and that's sufficient. =>

      April 10, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • J

      By saying "one day we shall know" I mean just that: whether there is or IS NOT a God. We don't know now. We surmise based on our experiences that there is or isn't. After we die, if that's it, that's it. If that isn't it, we shall know.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      LOL, shared experiences aren't part of the scientific method, J, what you have is an anecdote, with ZERO physical evidence and numerous other possible explanations – it isn't even approaching scientific.

      But sure, we're being unreasonable. I suppose Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster and alien abductions are real too, since so many people have claimed to have seen and experience that, lol.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • J

      The scientific method: something must be proven.

      No one has yet been able to prove/disprove God. At one point, people believed the world was flat; they're thinking the world was flat didn't make it flat. They later realized their lack of knowledge (at that point). Prior to the discover of DNA, no one was aware that there was, essentially, a motherboard in all of us. Now they know.

      We don't know much of anything yet, however brilliant we like to assume we are. That doesn't mean that we won't someday realize our lack of knowledge.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Theism is not healthy for your sanity and other reasonable things

      Now you're resorting to an argument from ignorance and God of the gaps position, J. That we don't have an answer to something yet doesn't give you the right to proclaim 'god did it'.

      Funny too how God always hides in the unexplained gaps of our knowledge. God used to throw lightening bolts, until we learned better. Now deities seem to be relegated to why are we here and what happens when we die – and it is still as logically fallacious to pose gods as an answer to those questions as it was to propose Zeus threw lightening bolts.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
  16. God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD!

    Be ever yee mindful of the words you sling out to offend God and His Followers! Mud-slingers will ever remain in their own dirtiness and they mayl never want to take and partake of religious showers! Dirty are the mud-slingers' ways!

    April 10, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      If jesus came back today he would be shot in the head. That's what you do to put down zombies, otherwise they eat your brains.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      If Jesus came back today and saw the religious leaders, he would not be able to stop throwing up

      April 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • J

      If Jesus came back today, we wouldn't be able to look at Him and we'd all be on our faces. He's God (creator of EVERYTHING); not a tiny little mouse. =>

      April 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Remember Zombie Rule #2: Double Tap

      Christians are not afraid of Zombie Jesus, for they have no brains upon which Jesus could feast.

      But we don't need to buy Zombie Glocks. Because not even Jesus comes back from the dead.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @Zombie Rule#2 - "Christians are not afraid of Zombie Jesus, for they have no brains upon which Jesus could feast." Now THAT was funny.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
  17. QS

    If I were straight, I'd still be Atheist.

    If I were religious, I'd still be gay.

    April 10, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      QS,,,,,,,,,

      Circular logic does not a breadmake build! 🙂

      April 10, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • QS

      Pipe-Dreamer, just stop...your comments butcher the English language, which is probably why they typically make no sense.

      You seem to be trying to sound intelligent, but you only come off as embarassing yourself.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD!

      QS,,,,,,,,,,

      Do you not have ears to hear with nut they are with waxen uncleanness? Do you noy have a mouth in which to voice but remain silent in God's eyes? Is it that your nose is your greatest asset and by your smellling way you find yourself?

      April 10, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD!

      QS,,,,,,,,,,(My Bad,,, had a typo)

      Do you not have ears to hear with but they are with waxen uncleanness? Do you not have a mouth in which to voice but remain silent in God's eyes? Is it that your nose is your greatest asset and by your smellling way you find yourself? The eyes have it and yet one remains blinded!

      April 10, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • QS

      With or without the typo, your comment makes about as much sense as Pipe-Dreamers does....which is to say, it doesn't.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
  18. reason

    The gods of all organized religions, if true, would all be horribly unjust and evil deities to send billions of people to eternal suffering for choosing the wrong one or being born in the wrong place. Looking at organized religion objectively, they are myths from iron age societies that were trying to explain the world, and there is virtually no chance any one is truth.

    Rationally speaking if there is a just god and an afterlife, you will be judged on how you live your life. Rejecting reason and deluding yourself in blind faith does not help your case.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4or90cmyhk&w=640&h=360]

    April 10, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Dear "reason"
      There is only one crucial problem with message of this video, one essential thing that's left out....

      The Spirit of God , the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of Truth does NOT bear witness to "allah' and his messenger Mohamed, nor does He bear witness to Krishna, Buddha, Zeus or any other "god" of man's imagination.
      But He bears witness to Yeshua, the Messiah, Jesus Christ His Son, who came down to to live among us and became one of us, so that by His sinless life He would become sacrifice for our sins and reconcile us to God. He arose again, because the Death couldn't hold Him, so that we may LIVE through believing in Him and trusting in Him.

      To HIM The Spirit of Truth testifies, and He is the plum-line, the Standard, the measure of all things. Every man, woman and child has been given a CONSCIENCE, so that they with that God given conscience are able to recognize this truth. BUT, it is according to what is in their hearts, will they recognize It or not.
      That's where God doesn't play man's game!
      That's the missing part, which those who say things as the man in this video says, fail to acknowledge. But God's Spirit, the Spirit of Truth testifies OTHERWISE!

      April 10, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
  19. Prayer changes things

    Prayer changes otherwise intelligent and rational people into believing they can talk to an imaginary super friend.

    April 10, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
  20. The Woof

    Some really thoughtful comments out here. But my favorite is the one where plainly put, believe what you as an individual want to believe. I'm not here to judge, condemn or convert you. You are who you are and I am who I am and as I respect you and your beliefs then I would hope that you would respect me and mine. What faith I have can not be disturbed or shaken by this article nor by other comments on this page. To all I wish peace.

    April 10, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
    • Em

      Thank you for a thoughtful and respectful comment!

      April 10, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Prayer changes things

      Then you must respect my belief that it is foolish and destructive to embrace with blind faith the myths of ignorant iron age societies.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • QS

      "...as I respect you and your beliefs then I would hope that you would respect me and mine."

      Here's a major problem I have with this sentiment....I am gay, and to insist that I "respect" the beliefs of others which dictate to them that I am somehow less of a person just because I'm gay doesn't work for me.

      This respect aspect that some people like to bring up would be great if religious people would actually show some respect toward others to begin with. What really baffles me though is that because of what religion quite masterfully does to people, those people actually end up believing that by being ugly to gay people makes them good people in the eyes of their god.

      Respect is a two-way street....and thus far I have yet to see much of it coming from the religion corporation.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • I kick you and your foolishness

      So you will insult me with wishing your idea of peace at me and expecting me to automatically respect your beliefs no matter how insane or dangerous, no matter what they may be.
      That is so empty-headed and ignorant that I cannot respect your wishes, your ideas, your insisting upon respect and all the rest sight unseen and without any qualifications whatsoever.
      And, yes, I know you were trying to seem like mister wonderful peace guy, but to insist on respect as a blanket assumption over all and everything regardless of whether it is actually deserving of respect is just disgusting.
      There are too many beliefs and believers out there who will never deserve any respect for those beliefs or their actions based upon their beliefs, so you can take your worthless and empty-headed willingness to ignore all that is wrong with anyone while assuming this makes you worthy of any kind of respect, and go f–k yourself.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:14 pm |
    • reason

      Respect must be earned. You do not earn respect by rejecting reason and declaring that you believe what you do because you decided to accept it on a leap of faith.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      QS,,,,,

      Do Christians really go about gay-bashing with vigor abd valore or do they just wait for people in need to be given their fruited wants? No Christian will ever deny the fallen from God's Graces to be found once again and seek to temper their ideologies of moralisms righteousness sakes.My gayness is not physicalisms' firmaments. I am gayingly alive with emotions of motion! At 57, I have put assunder my physical nature and habituals.I am but a player of pool, the eightball kind. I am at ease with my upcoming death and have made my peace with death's dormancies. Our Earth is real. Our sun is real and the galaxy is real. Even the Celestial Cosmos is real! Why then do some of us deny God to be real when everything else is real?

      April 10, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • QS

      "Our Earth is real. Our sun is real and the galaxy is real. Even the Celestial Cosmos is real! Why then do some of us deny God to be real when everything else is real?"

      I'm actually speechless on this one....I would try to explain the difference between what is real and what is not, but by this comment you seem to want to blend the two into one – not surprising as that is generally what most religious people tend to do in order to justify some obsolete belief that they desperately cling to.

      April 10, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Em

      QS – in defense of other religious people, I am a Christian and I have no idea really what Pipe dreamer is talking about..

      April 10, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • Nevermind The Bollocks

      Don't mind pipe-dreamer. He is just high on his delusion that he is some Joycean literary genius when in reality he is just a self-amazed fop producing unintelligible diarrhetoric.

      April 10, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD!

      QS,,,,

      Can I then be of certainty that you deny God being real? Just because physicalities are a relativism and emotionalisms are "felt" offerings of God's Holy Spirit, one's "physical" mind seems hellishly against the spirited emotionalisms that avail all humanisms! After all is said and done the deathbeds will ever await the physicalness's of humanisms' transparencies!

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      How much plainer can such a verse really be?
      We labour togetherly with God!
      We are God's "Husbandry" in that we bear His genetic numbers!
      Lastly, We are His BUILDINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      QS,,,,,,

      Are you so blinded by this one verse of scripture that you cannot see its' implications?

      April 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • God was and is and ever will be just that,,,,, GOD! AKA Pipe-Dreamer

      Nevermind The Bollocks

      Flattery wile attain you nothing not will your truncations of obligitories make a pittance of difference!

      April 10, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • QS

      Seems to me there is someone here who is blinded by scripture, but it is not me!

      And I responded once already to this approach you've tried to take regarding being "god's buildings" – a better reason to be in favor of exorcism I've never heard. 🙂

      April 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • just sayin

      "Our Earth is real. Our sun is real and the galaxy is real. Even the Celestial Cosmos is real! Why then do some of us deny God to be real when everything else is real?"
      >
      Are f ing serious????? You have physical evidence for some and then you have zero for the other. Some there is no assumption needed...they are right there in front of you...another you have to assume or have wishful thinking that they are real....the same criteria can be applied to believing in Fire Breathing dragons, Fairies, Santa, Easter Bunny, Zeus, Mithras, Bridge Trolls, Elves, Flying Witches, Smurfs, Ms. Pacman, Superman, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Silver Surfer, Wicked Witch of the West, Land of Oz, Wonderland, Tin Man, Large talking Snails and so on...this is the group that Gods and Myths fall into.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Crocky

      QS,

      There are many Christians who don't subscribe to that nonsense of "love the sinner but hate the sin." Don't lump us all into one category, as there are many denominations that fall into a wide spectrum of belief systems. There ARE Christians out there (Unitarian Universalists, the majority of United Church of Christ congregations, some Presbyterian congregations, as well as some other denominations) that believe in acceptance, not just tolerance of the LGBT community.

      It's simply the much louder, conservative religious right that spoils it for all us Christians. There are some of us that still believe in Jesus's message of love and acceptance vs. hate and exclusion.

      April 10, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • QS

      Crocky – I did, however covertly, acknowledge what you are referring to when I said in my original reply to this comment:

      "Respect is a two-way street....and thus far I have yet to see much of it coming from the religion corporation."

      "...have yet to see MUCH...."

      But I would still say that it is probably more prevalent among religious people than you might like to admit yourself.

      April 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.