April 24th, 2012
04:51 PM ET

Five things we learned from Joel Osteen's visit

By Eric Marrapodi and Dan Gilgoff, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Washington (CNN) - Joel Osteen, the pastor of America’s largest church, swung by the offices of CNN's Belief Blog on Tuesday. He’s in town for a "Night of Hope" event at Nationals Park baseball stadium this weekend, which is expected to draw thousands of worshipers who wouldn't otherwise step foot in a church.

Before taking batting practice with the Washington Nationals and delivering the opening prayer in Congress, Osteen sat down for a freewheeling interview with us. Five things we learned from his visit:

1. Osteen's optimism is unflappable

No matter how negative the outlook may be regarding religion, the economy or politics, Osteen sees the good.

Churches in America may be bleeding members but, Osteen’s own church – and those of his megapastor friends – are growing. "Sometimes what works 40 years ago doesn’t work today," he said, explaining how he built a church with 40,000 regular attendees in Houston, Texas.

"The denominations aren't as big of a deal so they may not look for a church that just says the First Church for Baptists or Methodists or Catholics,” he said. “They look for place where people are believers of a like minded faith. And so I see those types of churches growing and that's the type of church our is."

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Osteen has grown his church from a congregation of 7,000 since taking over for his dad in 1999.

“I’m biased,” when it comes to Christianity’s growth prospects,” Osteen said. “You know we’re coming from a stadium here and I’m thinking how’s this young guy from DC going to have 50,000 people - whatever that stadium holds - and I see it everywhere we go it seems like more than ever we see people hungry for their faith.

2. He hates weighing in on politics but will– sometimes

Osteen said he thinks politics "divides people" but was careful to add that "some pastors are very much called to be in politics like I’m called not to, so I like to celebrate what they’re doing."

The issue of religious liberty has been a hot one recently, especially over a pending White House mandate that free birth control be offered to employees at certain religious institutions. While many conservative pastors called the mandate a threat to religious liberty, Osteen said that it’s "not my personality to call something a threat but I would agree with what their argument, the basis of it, that we don’t want government telling us what we can, something that goes against our faith."

He added that he stands with Catholics and other Christians who opposed the government mandate, though it’s not completely clear if he’s satisfied by a White House adjustment to the rule that mollified some Catholics, if not the Catholic Church.

"I would hate to think of the day," Osteen said, "where someone would come and tell me you have to minister on this and it goes against what the scripture says."

3. Osteen sees Mormons as fellow Christians

"When I hear Mitt Romney say that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God, that he's the Christ, raised from the dead, that he's his savior - that's good enough for me," Osteen said in an interview that aired on CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer."

While Osteen said Mormonism is "not traditional Christianity," he believes Mormons fall under the Christian tent.

"Mormonism is a little different, but I still see them as brothers in Christ," the pastor argued. That goes a big step further than many other Christian leaders, who have not gone so far to say that Romney is unquestionably Christian.

Osteen also told Blitzer that he believes President Barack Obama is a committed Christian. Some conservative Christian leaders have questioned the president’s religion.

4. The point of Osteen’s TV broadcast is inspiring people and getting them to church

Osteen is often criticized for preaching a watered-down version of Christianity that is light on sin and heavy on feeling good. He said the goal of his TV ministry, which reaches 10 million Americans a week and costs about $20 million dollars a year, is to help get people into churches.

"I’m trying to throw a big broad net to try to get people interested in God and believe that he’s for them and has a purpose,” he said. “Maybe someone that would never be interested before but then at the end of each broadcast I encourage them to get in a good Bible-based church so you can grow.”

"I see our ministry as an extension of the church, the local church,” he said. “I realize in a 30-minute broadcast you can’t do all that. I’m trying to be really broad."
Osteen added that the TV broadcast partners with 500 local churches to help transition people from TV to church.

5. Serving communion to 40,000 people is tricky

Answering a question from an @CNNBelief Twitter follower, Osteen said Lakewood Church celebrates communion once a month, even though TV viewers don’t see it.
"There’s pros and cons of a big church,” he said. “Cons is I don’t get to know everybody, I don’t get to go to their ballgame, I don’t get to marry everybody, but the pros are you get all this community, 800 ushers come in to serve, getting there at 7 in the morning on their day off and coming in on Saturday to make all those wafers.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity

soundoff (1,154 Responses)
  1. Matthew 28:19

    Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.

    April 25, 2012 at 8:17 am |
    • momoya

      Revelation 22: 11

      He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Jesus

      What I've learned from Joel is how to effectively milk the sheep of their cash. It's the kind of a lesson that all my colleagues in the religion business need to absorb

      April 29, 2012 at 10:00 am |
  2. Rev. Rick

    Having been brought up myself as a conservative Christian, I find Joel's messages a nice change from the h.ell-fire and brimstone of the past. At least he is not like a most TV ministers who try to scare the h.ell out of you and tell you what an undeserving piece of garbage you are. And if you have ever watched Joel's TV ministry, he never asks for money – at least not directly.

    Scholarly research shows that most of the books of the New Testament were not likely written by the names they bear (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc,), and the quotes in the NT that are attributed directly to Jesus himself are guesses at best. Due to politics and power stuggles within the early church, alternative gospels (such as the Gnostic Gospels) were systematically tracked down and burned or otherwise destroyed so that only a few still remain. Most likely we will never know the "true" Jesus by simply reading the Bible, and if you try to interpret it literally you are really off the path.

    April 25, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • Nii

      Rev Rick, applying skeptical thinking 2 de Bible is fruitful 4 de interpretative view. However it wasnt meant 2 show de biblical record as doubtful since 2 every negative arguement there is an equally valid positive arguement. Whichever way that u think about it following de teachings is helpful.

      April 25, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • Frank Bund

      I doubt jesus ever existed.

      Nii, try posting in English next time.

      April 25, 2012 at 7:58 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      All uneducated comments made by 'Frank Bud' are instances of an ad hominem attacks.


      April 25, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
    • Imposter Spotting 101

      The original FS101 does not make such silly grammatical errors.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • silly billy has no willy

      ahahahahahahaha thats so silly.....you big teddy bear whoever you are. Let me know when the belief blog hands out medals for its grammatical critique awards and ill be there for the ceremony. Ill be waiting for you under the podium. 😉

      April 25, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • toadears

      Go back to sleep. Do not be ready. Compromise to the world system. Agree with the skeptics. Over and out.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • Your Enemy

      The bible has way too much information for one to asorb , it si enriched with information on making contact with God . But the problem with ost people is that they are unable to make that contact due to a variety of reasons..Stilll the informations is in there....Simply though to receive Jesus , you have to believe...And now if you can't believe , you can't receive....That's your problem... the solution is to hear me or hear this... I found the gospel fo Christ to be real and true..... The Holy Spirit himself is the greatest witness and proof of the gospel of Christ...Ask the Holy Spirit to hepl you to understand... He will .. 🙂

      May 7, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
  3. Ting

    Joel didn't answer any of my questions. Why do you pray? What's the point? God has a plan right? Is he going to change his plan because you pray? Could it be that God has some sort of prayer-meeter, and when enough prayers are said, he then decides to answer the prayer? I would also like to know how is it so easy for Christians to overlook the fact that their god is evil? Are they delusional or fearful? Just curious. Take your time.

    April 25, 2012 at 2:12 am |
    • Fundamentally Illogical And Impossible

      You tripped across one of the logical impossibilities surrounding God: For God to be God, he must be all powerful. As such, he knows everything that will ever happen. If he knows everything that will ever happen, then he can change nothing – God is bound by the forces of determinism, which mean he is NOT all-powerful. God is powerless to change anything if he already knows what will happen.

      That also means that prayer cannot possibly work – everything was decided long ago, and because God already knows what will happen, then asking for changes is totally futile. God cannot change anything, including his own actions.

      That means that God is not really in control – he is only part of the mechanism.

      This determinism also means that we cannot possibly have free will – God set this all in motion, and whether we do good or evil, we are simply fulfilling or predestined part of the plan. No choice possible – all you can have is the illusion of choice. You had to be a certain way for the plan to work, so you cannot be guilty towards God when he made you that way to fill a role.

      It also means that people cannot be saved. They were elect right from the beginning, and nothing they can do can change that. They cannot truly make anything different, as it was all predetermined. They are simply enacting a pattern that was decided long before they were born.

      Therefore, we cannot be judged either, and certainly not punished. We are trapped in the same determination that God is.

      Worst of all, if he knows everything that will happen, then there is no point in doing it at all. Indeed, it would be a colossal 13,750,000,000 year long bore (or 6,000 if you must – still very boring and pointless), like watching nothing but reruns for the rest of eternity.

      If God does not know the future, then he is subject to forces beyond his control. But he must know, because of all the End Of Times detail given in the Bible.

      God cannot exist unless it is not omniscient and omnipotent, a lesser being than what the Abrahamic traditions insist.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:50 am |
    • *facepalm*

      @Ting. God isn't evil. God loves you. Just like an abusive parent loves their child. Now get back to your room before I take out my whip.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:54 am |
    • SeeTheLight

      God's true loving nature is only reveal to us through grace given from the Holy Spirit.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:59 am |
    • Nii

      If we suppose that God is all knowing n all powerful then as in the field of computers he is a programmer. He knows which inputs that will give any answer and which will give aan error. When we pray we make an input. If ok de PC 'll pass it if not it'll give an error message. De programmer knows!

      April 25, 2012 at 3:54 am |
    • Nii

      The programmer knows the computer program however he cannot influence any input other than his own. This is the principle of Free Will. We have it. God has it. We have to agree. And thats why we pray. To submit our will to God to get a positive output. So it is quite logical to pray. Maths says so!

      April 25, 2012 at 3:59 am |
    • Nii

      Also in eternity time is infinite. Thats why He knows all probable events since there is no timeline in eternity. It is probability that works. When we perform any action here it changes the eventualities. This is similar to numerical analysis. The knowledge in eternity is iterative. Time differs

      April 25, 2012 at 4:06 am |
    • Frank Bund

      Nii, talking out of your anus isn't going to make god magically exist.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:05 am |
    • Nii

      I appreciate that you did not understand what I said but don't worry I don't hold it against you. Personally it is easier to take the simple literal view of the Bible than the complex logic of the interpretative one. Unfortunately atheist do take the simple approach too but reject its wisdom.

      April 25, 2012 at 7:44 am |
    • Frank Bund

      Nii, the irony of your ignorance is that atheists generally have more knowledge about the teachings of the bible than the majority of its followers. We reject the bible because it is blatantly false. We research things to understand them. Believers take what's crammed down their throats like well-paid hookers without ever asking a question.

      Most of your posts are shit gibberish, which is why no one understands what it is you're saying most of the time.

      April 25, 2012 at 8:02 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Nii, there has yet to be a perfect programmer therefore your god does not exist.

      April 25, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • Fundamentally Illogical And Impossible

      You totally failed to understand what I said, Nii. If God already knows the outcome, then there is no free will, even for him. It is all predetermined.

      And there is absolutely no point for him to do it.

      April 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • fred


      Your analogy is fatally flawed. Even a computer programmer has limitations imposed upon them by computer itself. He/she cannot be all knowing and all powerful if he/she is bound to instruction sets that are determined by the computer’s capabilities.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:11 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      All comments made by 'Frank Bud' are instances of an ad hominem attacks.


      April 25, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • Imposter Spotting 101

      The original FS101 does not make such silly errors in grammar, jester sayin. Gad zooks.

      April 25, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      Nii sez:
      "The programmer knows the computer program however he cannot influence any input other than his own"
      Exodus 9:12
      God directly influences input.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • toadears

      Just Christians? Because lots of people in lots of religions pray. Forgive me. Didn't mean to interrupt your bullying. Bash away! Saves others from it, I guess.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • Your Enemy

      God is good ... he made all my enemies my footstool as soon as I sit down at his right hand... 🙂

      May 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Your Enemy

      @ Fundamentally and illogical impossible 🙂 ...you are livinig in the past...God changed everything he wanted to...It's true he went ahead and saw everything that would have happend before he ever spoke a word...What he decided to do was to declare the end from the beginning....He considered everything he would have to say before he spoke ... He invested his power and authority in his word that is WORD. 🙂 🙂 🙂

      May 7, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
  4. mandarax

    Joel Osteen just drips snake oil salesman sleaze. Anyone who can't see through his self-serving politics truly is delusional.

    April 24, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
  5. Rebel4Christ

    Im sorry but Joel Osteens to luke warm!

    April 24, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
    • Frank Bund

      And your ability to construct a simple thought pattern and type it logically is garbage.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:06 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Comments made by 'Frank Bud' are instances of an ad hominem attacks.


      April 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Okay correct my grammer who Cares!!!

      April 25, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • Your Enemy

      and you are so much better than he by talking about him on the internet...

      but you have seen none of his works in rality have you... just TV.. 🙂 🙂

      May 7, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
  6. Faithful

    The Cross and salvation is the central message of the Gospel. It is not "health, wealth, and prosperity." We do need instruction on how to live, but the Cross does need to stay central.

    April 24, 2012 at 10:27 pm |
    • Daniel

      All that Joel preaches is only possible for those lives that have an anchor in the Almighty God-Jesus Christ.

      April 24, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • Faithful

      But our lives need to be centered on the cross. We need to stick to what the Bible truly says... All of it is true and we follow God's word.

      April 24, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • momoya

      But you can't believe all the bible because some bible contradicts other bible.. silly christians.. God had to sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself so he doesn't have to torture to many billions of people for eternity in his special torture pit.. Math experts don't disagree, chemistry experts don't disagree, but so called "god experts" do.. Gee, I wonder why?.

      April 24, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • tnfreethinker

      I find it disturbing with so many good and charitable lessons one could take from the Bible, it is the self-serving, bigoted parts Christians tend to cling to. Don't worry about your sin. God knows it's inevitable. It's his PLAN. All you have to do is ask forgiveness. Sounds like a free pass to me.

      April 24, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • Cq

      "health, wealth, and prosperity."

      Spock said it better with "Live long, and prosper."

      April 25, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • toadears

      Daniel, seek ye first the kingdom of God. That does not seem to the primary message of most modern prosperity gospel evangelists. And they themselves are terribly rich in worldly goods.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • Your Enemy

      most of the people whom Joel reaches know the bible or some parts of it better than you ...it is better to preach your own gospel than to judge another man's servant... unless of course that's your job 🙂 🙂

      May 7, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  7. Janel

    Troubling Quotes from the Second Prophet (leader) of the Mormon Church

    Brigham Young said your own blood must atone for some sins.

    "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247; see also, vol. 4, p. 53-54, 219-220).

    Brigham Young said you must confess Joseph Smith as a prophet of God in order to be saved.

    "...and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312).

    Brigham Young said his discourses are as good as Scripture.

    "I say now, when they [his discourses] are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264; see also p. 95).

    Brigham Young said he had never given any counsel that was wrong.

    "I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161).

    Brigham Young compared his sermons with scripture.

    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

    Brigham Young said you are damned if you deny polygamy.

    "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

    Brigham Young said you can't get to the highest heaven without Joseph Smith's consent.

    "...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

    Brigham Young boasted.

    "What man or woman on earth, what spirit in the spirit-world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, or a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens? The success which has attended me in my presidency is owing to the blessings and mercy of the Almighty . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 127).

    Brigham Young said Jesus' birth was as natural as ours.

    "The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).

    Brigham Young said that God the Father and Mary 'do it.'

    "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 218). "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). Note: the late Bruce McConkie who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated "There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events..." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742).

    Brigham Young said that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Spirit.

    "I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

    Brigham Young taught that Adam was God.

    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50).

    Brigham Young made a false prophecy?

    "In the days of Joseph [Smith] it was considered a great privilege to be permitted to speak to a member of Congress, but twenty-six years will not pass away before the Elders of this Church will be as much thought of as the kings on their thrones," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 40).

    Brigham Young comments about blacks

    "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

    "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

    "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

    Now if that last portion didn't strike you as unbelievably horrible, than imagine this....Mormons are taught to believe every word of their prophets as though they were the words of God: Unquestionable. And these are quotes from just one of their prophets.
    Now imagine the President of the USA being Mormon.....

    April 24, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Rockgod28

      Nothing posted is doctrine or practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

      What is the official word on the opinions of Brigham Young by the Mormon Church?

      "Forget it." Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Apostle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

      Have a good day. 🙂

      April 25, 2012 at 1:55 am |
    • Frank Bund

      Rock, good little mormon. DENY DENY DENY.

      Pretend all you'd like. The history of the mormon cult is well documented.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:11 am |
    • Rockgod28

      No Frank Bund it is not denial, it is acceptance. Mormons accepted revelation and correction from God.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Huebert

      I love how the omniscient, omnipotent god changes his mind and must make corrections to the book that he "wrote".

      April 25, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • RFBJR

      Ya, wow. Now just imagine if a follower of Black Liberation Theology was President. Wait...

      April 25, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
    • Rockgod28

      To: Huebert

      You are forgetting who Gos is writing to: Humanity. Cruel, corrupt, fallen man. God's ways are not your ways or my way of doing His work or business of teaching human kind.

      God does not give us more than we can understand or accomplish in this mortal life.

      We pass through tests and trials of our faith. He sees how we deal with tempations and tragedy when we think no one is looking. He provides a way for us to repent of our crimes, mistakes and weakness by His Son Jesus Christ.

      So it is not funny God continues to communicate with human beings. It is serious business, the stewartship of our immortal soul and mortal life.

      Will you pass the test of this life and the trial of your faith?

      April 25, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Huebert

      Ah yes the "god works in mysterious ways" defense. So it was the 1960 before humanity could handle a black man in the Mormon priesthood? The very idea of an omnipotent god writing a book or only giving revelations to a select few is ludicrous. if an omnipotent being had a message for humanity all it would have to do is beam the message directly into the minds of everyone on earth. no ambiguous revelations required.

      April 25, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • fred

      It’s not hard to tell that you drank the kool-ade. Why do Christians have so little faith in humanity? Why do you have to look at everyone as cruel, corrupt and fallen as you put it? There are plenty of good people out there that don’t fit this description and don’t need you, or your imaginary friend to save them.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • fred

      “all it would have to do is beam the message directly into the minds of everyone on earth. no ambiguous revelations required.”

      There’s hardly any money to be made in that now is there?

      April 25, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Jose Antonio

      Obama 2012.

      April 25, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
  8. Colin

    Ever heard of a group of atheists being ripped off, deceived into making donations to, or convinced to kill themselves by a charismatic leader? OF course not. That is the exclusive providence of the theists. Poor fools

    April 24, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Chad

      Suicide: if you count up the numbers, most mass suicides throughout history have been committed by members of armed forces, for example Japan seppuku ceremonial self-disemboweling and kamikaze fighters.

      Ripped off: by far the largest scams through out history have nothing to do with religion, just plain old greed. See for example Madoff $18b Ponzi Scheme

      Donations: Couldnt find any numbers really, I would suspect that politicians as a group are the world's largest beneficiaries, but that's just a hunch.

      Inflicting Death: In this one, atheists have a really insurmountable edge, just totaling up Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, you get a number north of 70million.

      April 24, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Jeanine

      Wow, Colin, that was a gutter-ball. Did you run out of steam? Forget your bad post and try again. Have some coffee.

      April 24, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • momoya

      Chad, why won't you make a positive argument for your god?. So far, all you've shown is that religious belief or lack thereof is no indicator of morality since atheists and believers both do really human stuff like killing and such..

      Atheism isn't a belief and doesn't have rules or principles to follow or interpret.. You don't "join up," or anything like that.. They're just humans without a belief in a specific god.. That's a far cry from religious dictates that often present a god whose idea of justice is eternal torture for those who aren't in the club..

      April 24, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • momoya

      LOL, Jeanine, here's your logic back at you.. Wow, what a gutterball, jeanine.. YOU lose.. so sad, you're mad, oh bad!.

      At least Colin presented a rational statement.. Yours is just a sheep's bleat: Yuuuuuuuurrrrrr baaaaaaaaaaaaad.. No reason.. No rhyme.. No soul.. praysus jaysus.

      April 24, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
    • Chad

      Marxist–Leninist atheism is a form of atheism which holds that the essence of religion is the opium of the people and it should therefore be abolished. Communism, as originally laid out by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, required the abolition of all religion in order to reach its ideal end-state. It was interpreted in this fashion by Vladimir Lenin and the Government of the Soviet Union until the country's dissolution. In China, religious institutions were shut down by the Red Guards in the 1960s and 1970s as part of the Cultural Revolution. wiki

      April 24, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • momoya

      Chad, you moron, do you know any 'Marxist-Leninist atheists?". What's wrong with you? Have you taken a knock in the head recently?

      Atheism is a lack of belief; there's no dogma, rules, or ideals.. The only requirement is that you don't believe in any gods.. That's it.. It's kind of like non stamp collecting; the only requirement for inclusion is that you don't collect stamps.

      April 24, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • Cq

      "just plain old greed"
      Isn't wishing for life after death and the ability to influence, or being the favored of an all-powerful being just another expression of greed?

      Also, I see that you forgot your favorite Christian dictator, Hitler, to the list of other murderous dictators. Narrowing your selection of examples just to highlight one common trait is a rather cheap means of arguing your case.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • Jeanine

      @momoya – I like you so I'm going to ignore your flippancy here.
      Colin is smart enough to see where he messed up. I was just assuming he was tired or something and made a bad post.
      Most of his other ones are fantastic. Colin rocks.
      Frankly, I was shocked to see such a post by Colin and soft-pedaled my criticism down to saying "gutter-ball".

      I don't think I've ever seen a commenter go without any mistakes here. I make plenty of mistakes too, but you've got to be looking very closely to see them unless I'm over-tired and goofy. Happens to everyone. Even Colin.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • Frank Bund

      I don't make any mistakes. Ever.

      Christians make up the largest population of inmates. Go figure.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:17 am |
    • Chad

      @momoya "do you know any 'Marxist-Leninist atheists?"
      @Chad "actually, I know a great many of them working in the field that I do, working with a great many Chinese/Russian nationals. So the answer is yes I do personally know many."

      @momoya "Atheism is a lack of belief; there's no dogma, rules, or ideals.."
      @Chad "that couldnt be more wrong..
      atheism (unless you want to call yourself a "negative/weak" atheist which are indistinguishable from agnostics) is:
      atheism Noun: The theory or belief that God does not exist.

      The stance of atheism – active opposition to belief in God is central to Marxism-Leninism, it is one of THE central ideas (along with single party rule and communist state).

      As far as dogma/rules 🙂
      atheists are the most dogmatic inflexible people I have ever met in my entire life. Worshiping themselves at the alter of humanistic naturalism.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Chad

      @Cq "Isn't wishing for life after death and the ability to influence, or being the favored of an all-powerful being just another expression of greed?"
      @Chad " I never thought of it that way.. in a sense it is in fact self serving to pick life over death.. to pick God over His enemy, to pick light over darkness.. but, I dont think God minds at all 🙂

      @Cq "Also, I see that you forgot your favorite Christian dictator, Hitler, to the list of other murderous dictators. Narrowing your selection of examples just to highlight one common trait is a rather cheap means of arguing your case."
      @Chad "I have never seen anyone successfully argue that Hitlers actions were anything other than motivated by german nationalism, however, I do think horrendous theology in Christianity over the centuries has contributed a great deal to anti-semitism, so I do think we as Christians have an ownership of a great deal of the holocaust and I wont shy away from that.
      so, we'll call it
      death's due to atheism: +70million
      death's due to Christianity: 6million

      if you want to add all the wars in history, it's well documented that 7% of them can be attributed to religious causes.. so the picture probably only gets worse for atheists.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • YeahRight

      “Worshiping themselves at the alter of humanistic naturalism.”

      That’s a lie and lying is a sin.

      “death's due to atheism: +70million
      death's due to Christianity: 6million”

      Actually you are wrong Christians killed over 50 Indians when they stole their land from them. Religion over the course of human history has killed over 480 million.

      Keep lying Chad all you are doing is showing you can’t even follow your own rule book. What a hypocrite.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Chad

      @YeahRight "Religion over the course of human history has killed over 480 million."
      @Chad "I think I remember you trying this before.. you never responded to the following data that clearly contradict your statement.. why is that?:

      – total number of people killed in wars throughout history: 255,000,000 to 400,000,000
      source: wiki - List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

      – total number of wars attributed to religious causes (.07 * ((255+400)/2)= 23,000,000

      so: the total number of people "killed by religion" is around 23million
      you are claiming that more people have been "killed by religion" than have been killed IN ALL WARS combined throughout history.

      I have no doubt you will continue repeating that nonsense claim.. but why? what data are you using to come up with that 480m number?

      April 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • YeahRight

      "- total number of people killed in wars throughout history: 255,000,000 to 400,000,000
      source: wiki – List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

      – total number of wars attributed to religious causes (.07 * ((255+400)/2)= 23,000,000"

      LMAO How many times do we have to tell you that 60% of it's WRONG on that site!! LOL!

      April 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Chad

      That's your answer?

      no data backing up your claim of 480m?

      if you dont like wiki, using Encyclopedia of Wars – 3 Volume of Set reports the same total number of death's from war..

      your logic/methodology is badly flawed..

      April 25, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • momoya


      Perhaps you know atheists who ALSO have some OTHER agenda, but their other agenda is not a PART of atheism.. You seem to have a lot of trouble differentiating between a part of something and the whole of something; you made the same error when you implied that evolution is completely random because a small part of evolution contains random events.. You're just stupid like that.

      Atheism and theism deal with non belief and belief in gods; If you believe in god's you're a theist; if you don't, you're an atheist.. That's it.. There's nothing more than that. Atheism is not a positive claim no matter how often you lie and say that it is.. You're a liar.. That's just what you do.. Your lies do not affect definitions of words..

      Agnosticism and gnosticism deal with knowledge of spiritual goings-on or no knowledge of spiritual goings-on.. Agnosticism is NOT "atheism light.". You're an interesting study in the psychology behind the "Dunning Kruger Effect.". You are continually educated as to the pertinent facts, but you don't even look them up independently to verify if you are right or if you need to change your stance.. You're terribly stupid because while you ignore other people's evidence, you insist that your lies are correct and that others should switch to your stance.. It's completely imbecilic behavior.. Your goal every day seems to be to convince as many people as possible that you are as stupid as possible.. If that is your goal, then great job!! It's working.

      April 25, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      “Atheism as a denial of this unreality; has no longer any meaning, for atheism is a denial of God and tries to assert through this negation the existence of man; but socialism as such no longer needs this mediation...”
      – Karl Marx

      April 25, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Chad

      Thanks Doc, that is precisely what I have been saying. Atheism says there is no God, and in so doing seeks to "shed the shackles" so to speak of mankind-religion. It is a belief that God does not exist. simple.

      The denial of God (atheism) is at the core of Marxist-Leninist philosophy. To say otherwise is simply to deny reality.

      @momoya "Perhaps you know atheists who ALSO have some OTHER agenda, but their other agenda is not a PART of atheism.. "
      @Chad: "I have no doubt that there are indeed atheists that do not seek to further the cause of Marxist-Leninist philosophy, however, an atheist can not shirk the association of atheism with Marxist-Leninist philosophy any more than muslims can shirk the association of their beliefs with Islamic states, and Christians can shirk the association of their beliefs with the david koresh's of the world.

      @momoya "Agnosticism is NOT "atheism light."."
      "Philosophers such as Antony Flew[46] and Michael Martin[38] have contrasted positive (strong/hard) atheism with negative (weak/soft) atheism. Positive atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Negative atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a negative or a positive atheist. The terms weak and strong are relatively recent, while the terms negative and positive atheism are of older origin, having been used (in slightly different ways) in the philosophical literature[46] and in Catholic apologetics.[47] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as negative atheists. – wiki

      you keep fighting with and attempting to redefine reality 🙂

      April 25, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest


      Wow now you're just being completely stupid.

      1) Let us examine your logic for a moment on the whole atheism marxism bullsh.it. Since a denial of "god" is at the heart of marxism (or so you say) then since belief in a god is at the core of jihads, then all religious people must therefore be associated with the jihadists automatically. Congrats chad you are a jihadist according to your own logic.

      2) Theism is defined as the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is the non-belief in a god or gods (not the same as denial of something). An agnostic is someone that believes that there is nothing known or can ever be known about god or gods. There is a difference between atheist and agnostic by their very definitions, and no amount of wiki postings by you is going to change the definitions of those words.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Dave

      "Ever heard of a group of atheists being ripped off, deceived into making donations to, or convinced to kill themselves by a charismatic leader?"

      Sounds like a good description of North Korea.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • Chad

      @HawaiiGuest "Since a denial of "god" is at the heart of marxism (or so you say) then since belief in a god is at the core of jihads then all religious people must therefore be associated with the jihadists automatically."
      @Chad "LOL
      you crack me up 🙂
      A. what I said was "an atheist can not shirk the association of atheism with Marxist-Leninist philosophy any more than muslims can shirk the association of their beliefs with Islamic states, and Christians can shirk the association of their beliefs with the david koresh's of the world

      @HawaiiGuest " Atheism is the non-belief in a god or gods (not the same as denial of something)"
      @Chad "I recommend that you inform webster that their definition is incorrect 🙂

      Definition of ATHEIST : one who believes that there is no deity Merriam-Webster

      you a funny guy 🙂

      April 25, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest


      So you post a useless reply that addresses absolutely nothing. Congrats, you have once again shown your intellectual dishonesty and inability to actually address points that are made against you.

      April 25, 2012 at 10:26 pm |
  9. james

    Hawaiiguest, I do not judge you or anyone,I tell you and others what the Word of God says in the Holy Bible.His word is truth.Please read the book of John,its a good book to start with.

    April 24, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Read the bible back to front multiple times. Eventually led to me becoming an atheist along with other factors.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Well thats sad you went from believing in something to believing in nothing. Gotta tell ya id rather believe in a fake gospel rather than no gospel at all!

      April 24, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • evolvedDNA

      rebel for christ..isnt that the same thing?

      April 24, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
    • momoya

      Atheists don't believe in "nothing.". What is "nothing," anyway? How could you believe or not believe in it? I swear, you christians make as much sense as a drunken donkey playing mario kart.

      You guys believe something comes from nothing: God.. You guys believe in magic spells spoken into "the void" and life just magically pops up from nothing..

      April 24, 2012 at 11:48 pm |
    • Frank Bund

      Humans don't have the capacity to understand that just because it exists, doesn't mean "someone" just had to create it. Humans exist, that's that. We weren't created.

      Simply stated, we evolved from shit that happened over time. Somewhere along the lines we evolved to the point of questioning our existence. Somewhere along the lines, people felt that they were so important that some sky princess created the entire Universe all for us.

      You know it's funny how christians claim that the meek shall inherit the Earth. I wouldn't call believing that you are the center of the Universe very meek. I'd say you're all nothing more than self-important, egotistical trash so full of yourselves that you will completely ignore all logic in order to realize your own selfish desires. Hell, the bible destroys itself with contradictions, but christians act like any indication of such is a lie and that the devil is trying to test their faith. Please. The devil is about as real as the ghost of christmas past.

      Just because you are capable of thinking a thought or asking a question doesn't mean that all of the sudden there is some grand architectural scheme for all things. Get over yourselves. We're on a fucking rock in the middle of space like every other rock out there.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:42 am |
  10. james

    Osteen does not.want to ruffle any feathers.The gospel is like a two edge sword,it cuts to the quick.In order to be saved, we need to know we are sinners in need of a savior(Jesus Christ).Romans 3:23.Osteen does like to mention that we are all sinners and fall short of God's glory,he keeps many more coming to his church.Easy believeism Is leading many astray.Osteen cannot recognize that mormans are not Christians.How sad.its part of the falling away mentioned in the end times.

    April 24, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Get over yourself james. People have been predicting the end times to been soon since jesus supposedly preached. Besides doesn't it say in your bible that non are worthy to judge the faith of another? So exactly where do you get off judging others?

      April 24, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Cq

      In order to be sold the antidote to Mad Zombie Disease (if you're a Simpsons fan) you first have to be convinced that such a disease exists.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:25 am |
    • Frank Bund

      Your jesus spoke of the end. He also claimed he'd return within the lifespan of his followers.... the followers that were alive when he was alive. Don't believe me? Read your goddamn bible. It's in there. More than once actually. Look for the red text (you know, jesus quotes). The bible contradicts jesus' claim by saying no one knows the day or the hour, only the father, not the son. According to the bible, jesus was the son, and he claimed to know the day and the hour. In other words, the bible contradicts itself blatantly on the most important hinge of the christian cult.

      So uh, about the credibility of your bible and your entire religion...

      April 25, 2012 at 6:48 am |
  11. Jespo

    Hhmmnn...let's see...nicely done shiny hair perfectly la-yered, hint of makeup, waxed eyebrows, elegant suit with tasteful yet flashy tie, shiny teeth......yep, this guy's perfect for a story a few years from now about a bathroom meeting somewhere in an airport or you tube video involving hoo-kers.....male hoo-kers. At that point he should be grateful man's law has done away with the stone age idea of kil-ling hom-os-exuals, at least in some parts of this country where people dont sleep with their cousins...His god will forgive him I guess, and most of his following...hallelujiah...people are stupid.

    April 24, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • toadears

      although I can sense your disgust, you are rambling

      April 25, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
  12. HotAirAce

    Osteen, just another religious asshole charlatan tricking the weak minded into thinking fairy tales are real.

    April 24, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • JustHotAir

      Ah, an experienced cnn commenter. Insulting not only the man that the board is about but also insulting anyone in the Christian faith as well.

      April 24, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • Aah

      Ah, just another troll replying to someone else and saying something dumb.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • Hmm

      Ah, just another person replying to a troll who is replying to a person.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • Hah

      Ah, just another reply to add to the ones above.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Ahem

      Ah, just another good post by HotAirAce with lots of replies I'm going to ignore for now.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
    • Huh

      Ah, I forgot what I was going to say but I'm more than willing to go along with everyone else.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • Hot Ground Guy

      Ah, a bunch of fake trolls. I can tell just by looking at your posts.

      April 24, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      My comment was not meant to be limited to charlatans and believers of just the god and jesus myths.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • Jeanine

      @HAA – I'm surprised you felt the need to respond to that lame troll.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • toadears

      Ahhhhh troll parade

      April 25, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
  13. GodsPeople

    I have a very simple question: Since he's not a member of the Orthodox Church (The original Church of Christ), what makes him think he's a Christian?

    April 24, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • The Way It Really Is

      Jesus wasn't a member of that church either.

      All you have to do to be a Christian is be stupid, gullable, and accept Invisible Jesus Imaginary Action Figure as your savior. And when he dies, he will reap the divine bounty of having his cognivite self just stop and his remains turn slowly to dust, just like everyone else.

      April 24, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • GodsPeople

      @The Way You wish it is: That's only in your demented imagination. Jesus was not a member of the Orthodox Church, no.. but Peter, His first disciple, ministered to the first non-Jews in Antioch, where there is still the cave with an altar where the Lord was first worshipped by Gentiles.

      April 24, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post by 'GodsPeople' is an instance of the fallacy of Begging The Question.


      April 24, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post by 'The Way It Really Is' is an instance of the fallacy of Poisoning the Well.

      April 24, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Jespo

      @FallacyBoy. Oh please, put your book away...we all took faulty reasoning classes in college too....

      April 24, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
    • The Way It Really Is

      That well has been poisoned for thousands of years. Don't kill the messenger for telling the truth.

      By the way, the real Fallacy Spotter always puts the fallacy in bold font, then provides reverence to the same authoritative web site. He would not call my post a "root post" as that is of course incorrect. And he would not make the mistake of calling my post "poisoning the well," which is not correct: it was good old fashioned ad hominem in the first part and sarcasm in the second part.

      April 25, 2012 at 2:23 am |
    • toadears

      Fallacy....put your root away

      April 25, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
  14. Denise

    Why do so many of the TV preacher screechers have plastic hair like this dorky idiot Osteen???

    They look like they should be on seedy car lots selling used cars, although that comparison is a disservice to most car salespeople.

    I guess people who are easily fleeced tend to fall for that plasticky look, or something like that. Osteen must need to stand on a mat so the oil collects on it.

    April 24, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • Rude much

      Glad you focus on the important things; like people's looks. Hey, I bet there are some nice southerners that have a few white hoods you could borrow.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • Denise

      It's a valid observation that I made and the correlation is high. Care to try again, ass-hole?

      April 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • Rude Much

      Correlation does not imply causation.
      Hear that whooshing sound. It was your swing and a miss.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • Denise

      False. Imply is not the same as prove, stupid. Get a brain and try posting something with substance, moron.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • Rude Much

      Oh...so you just post stuff without the intent on actually meaning anything. I see, you are an idiot. You could have just said that at the very beginning you know.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Observer

      Denise's observation might be harsh, but it seems accurate if I look at Swaggart and the rest of them. Benny Hinn even has serious 3D hair! What's your beef, Rude?

      April 24, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • Rude Much

      Nothing really Observer. I just thought that if the best thing Denise could comment on was the man's looks, then that stupidity should be mentioned. There are a lot of things, things much more deeper than his looks, that could be brought up and many people have mentioned. One could be critical of his money, theology or even his educational background.

      April 24, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Tony

      It is kind of funny that so many of the cheesy televangelists have shiny, solid hair. Seems to be almost a required part of the big act they are putting on. Or putting us on with 🙂 I don't recall Billy Graham looking so slicked and scrubbed though.

      April 24, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • Elmer Gantry Lives!

      They are used air salesmen. They are making big money selling happy thoughts. They deliver nothing but words – it's a great scam!

      I don't think his hair looks plasticky, though I do think that the U.S. would see a 57 cent drop in the price of gas if someone put an oil rig on top of that.

      April 24, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Jeanine

      Denise made me laugh. I love Denise. You go girl!

      April 24, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • Frank Bund

      Denise is 100% correct.

      As for the used car salesman gig... these guys really do belong on used car lots. They keep reselling the same shit to idiots while the rest of us ask over and over, "DID YOU CHECK THE CARFAX?" But no, christians never check the CARFAX. They keep buying the same shit lemon over and over. IDIOTS.

      April 25, 2012 at 8:11 am |
    • Rude Much

      Listen to Jeanine and Frank bleat.

      April 25, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • Karol

      Listen to Rude Much beat himself.

      April 25, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Reading Comprehension

      Try it sometime Karol.

      April 25, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
  15. Plain Ol' Dreamer

    Anyone who seeks the light shall find it but, will said light be of a candle or a bonfire or even a brush fire? The race is on!

    April 24, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • Denise

      Don't strike a match near Osteen's hair, unless you are prepared to dive out of the way of the greaseball fire.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
  16. whoopie

    Joel Osteen has a calling to spread a word of hope and I for one have benefitted from it greatly. Thank you Pastor Osteen

    April 24, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • just sayin

      Yes thank you Joel...I was backed up for days nwo and when I heard your words...it just flowed out.

      April 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • Denise

      Oil will do that to you.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
  17. just sayin

    Should we be under God's law or our laws?

    April 24, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Are they in conflict?

      April 24, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • momoya

      First prove that "god's law" came from a god.. We'll go from there.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • Kalessin

      I don't know if "just sayin" will do that Momyo.
      Curious..are you confused as to which laws he is referring to?

      April 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • just sayin

      Conflict has nothing to do with it. Should the Law of the land be God's Law or our Consti tution?

      April 24, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • momoya

      Of course he won't do that, silly.. No, which god's law are we discussing?. Sharia?

      April 24, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • just sayin


      And now you see why I ask the question. lol

      April 24, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • momoya

      Yep.. And since most people who claim there is a "god's law" disagree on what it is, I say we continue to go with man's law just like we do when we go with man's law and call it "god's law." If you're the type of person who thinks "god's law" is a viable term, then you're the type who should consider it "god's hurricane" or "god's tornados" because of the terminology "act of god" to mean 'natural disasters.'

      April 24, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Kalessin

      @just sayin- "Conflict has nothing to do with it. Should the Law of the land be God's Law or our Consti tution?"

      Well, you can't be talking about anything from Christianity because no one has called for thowing out the Consti_tution for any Biblical law.

      April 24, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • momoya

      The text doesn't even matter if you get biased interpretations.. When religious freaks want to pretend that the const,itution calls for a definition of marriage when it doesn't, that's throwing the const.itution out in place of a religious ideal.. That's just one example of many that express an outlook biased by the arrogance of those who act as if god is unquestionably on their side..

      It's the same arrogance (I know what god wants and I don't care how many disagree with me or for what purpose) that flies planes into buildings.. Catholics thinking that they can dictate to the president what laws they will and won't follow!?!? They should have been imprisoned for treason!

      April 24, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Jeanine

      Kalessin / Lycidas / Uncouth is a childish troll who likes to troll for responses where the responder assumes Lycidas is a run-of-the-mill Christard troll.

      He will giggle and make veiled references to the fact that he is not a Bible literalist to show the responder has assumed too much.

      This "I've got a secret" game he plays is one of his favorites.
      His posts have improved slightly in other areas, but this little kid's game really thrills him to giggles, so just remember he's a side-stepping deist who does not believe in literal Bible stuff.

      Just lettin ya know, momoya. I've caught Lycidas at it many times. I just thought you might like a heads-up. No charge.

      April 25, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • Kalessin

      Jeanine is one of those cute little ppl that think they know more than they do.
      What she caught is a bruise to her ego when her canned responses on religion don't work. So after a while she'll change her username and praise the comments of her other usernames..it's a vicious and pitiful cycle. We should pity her.

      But alas, this is the typical behavior of many on here. Thank goodness there are some intelligent ppl on the atheist side of the argument that do not let their egos and emotions control them like her.

      April 25, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
  18. gypsyalso

    couldn't you have found someone who was mainstream – instead of someone who believes God will give you prosperity? there are many ministers out there who would have been acceptable – COGIC, Baptist, Methodist, just not prosperity.

    April 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      gypsyalso, what does prosperity mean to you since their are many different interpretations and it's not only financial? I pray that your prosperity is that you are lucky in love with family, friends, etc that care that you are here.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
  19. J.W

    Do we get to ask him a question now? Or did I miss my chance?

    April 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • Denise

      A question would slide right off his oil slick hair.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • Rude Much

      Don't be jealous that he has hair and you don't.

      April 24, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
  20. Jahnabi Barooah

    Really enjoyed this!

    April 24, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.