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 An exhibit of Rodin's "The Thinker."
April 27th, 2012
04:01 PM ET
Study: Analytic thinking can decrease religious beliefBy Becky Perlow, CNN (CNN) - When was the last time you sat down and questioned your decision to believe in God? According to a new study, that simple act could decrease your religious conviction – even if you’re a devout believer. In the study, published Friday in the journal Science, researchers from Canada’s University of British Columbia used subtle stimuli to encourage analytical thinking. Results from the study found that analytical thinking could decrease religious belief. “Religious belief is intuitive - and analytical thinking can undermine intuitive thinking,” said Ara Norenzayan, co-author of the study. “So when people are encouraged to think analytically, it can block intuitive thinking.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Some of the more than 650 Canadian and American participants in the study were shown images of artwork that encouraged analytic thinking, while another group was shown images that were not intended to produce such thinking. One of the images used to trigger analytic thinking was of Rodin’s statue “The Thinker.” A previous study showed that such images improved performance on tests that indicate analytic thinking. In addition to the artwork images, the religion study used other stimuli to promote analytical thinking. After exposure to such stimuli, researchers gauged participants’ religious beliefs through a series of questions. Subjects who had performed analytical tasks were more likely to experience a decrease in religious belief than those who were not involved in such tasks. That included devout believers. “There’s much more instability to religious belief than we recognize,” said Norenzayan, noting that life’s circumstances and experiences, from traumatic events to joyous occasions, can lead people to become more or less religious. “Religion is such an important part of the world and we have so little understanding of it,” he added. “So regardless of what you think about religion, it’s important to understand it because it’s so important in the world.” Norenzayan is quick to mention that the experiments did not turn devout believers into total atheists. But he speculated that if people habitually think analytically, like scientists or lawyers do, it would lead to less religious belief in the long run. Robert McCauley, director of the Center for Mind, Brain and Culture at Emory University, and author of "Why religion is natural and science is not," found the study particularly interesting because he thought it was difficult to make even a minimal change in religious belief. “It’s not likely you would argue someone out of a religious belief very often because they don’t hold those beliefs on argumentative or reflective grounds in the first place,” said McCauley, who believes religious beliefs rely primarily on intuitive thinking. Analytical thinking alone does not necessarily lead to a decrease in religious belief, emphasized Norenzayan. “There’s a combination of factors [as to] why people become believers or nonbelievers - this is only one piece of the puzzle,” Norenzayan said, explaining that his team doesn’t think analytical thinking is superior to intuitive thinking. “It makes the story we need to tell about religion and religious belief all the more complicated,” said McCauley. “That’s what great scientific research does – ask more interesting questions.” soundoff (3,468 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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One of the many enjoyable experiences we have as humans in this existence is one of lively conversation. It is an opportunity to exhibit one's thoughts and knowledge on various subjects and topics. The "lively" part of the conversation or debate is usually pure emotion, one may call it passion for one's beliefs or factual knowledge. If we can agree that the "lively" part is emotion, what would we have in its absence? Words with meanings or definitions and facts devoid of any passion.
On both sides of the god issue there is a lot of passion, passion for a belief and passion for the truth. On the believer's side is the passion of faith and belief, an attribute void of reason while on the non side lives fact and reason. It is here where the non-believer is faced with a debate against emotion, the attribute void of reason. It is the intolerance of the believer that brings about intellectual distress and takes the enjoyment out of a lively debate. If only the faithful would open-up their minds to other possibilities and actually read and try to understand what we know, it will only be then that we can get back to enjoying one of the many wonderful experiences we have as humans.
Voice of Reason,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,,..
Am I wrong in "believing" a pinch of atheism with just a touch of the agnosticism?
It requires thought rather than simply belief. That is the problem that so many run into.
Logic leads to realizations, not truth.. Believers don't understand how to get past their indoctrination enough to conclude the most likely answer from the available data.. Deconversion is nothing like conversion; believers have a "feeling" about their faith that they erroneously conclude is a form of "proof" or "evidence," and they don't know how to deal with a decision ABOUT religion that does not include an emotional component as a "verification" that they are on the "right path."
T: Do you believe in God?
A: There is no god!
T: Then how do you explain the fine tuning in our Universe?
A: There are an infinite number of universes. Given an infinite possibility, any finite tuning becomes possible.
T: Can you prove that infinite number of universes exist?
A: No, but it makes sense.
T: Within my views I do agree in there being infinite universes with the Grand Cosmos!
A: Because of all the killing in the world done in the name of god, I won't accept God as an answer. I'll believe in far more unlikely things because Mathematics proves to me that even if it is unlikely, it is still possible. Like given enough time, a group of monkeys can produce the entirety of Hamlet if trapped in a room full of typewriters.
T: What you seem to forget is the finite yet infinite formations of cellularized mini-universes making up all of Life, be it animal or insectual or even plant based!
A:Are you saying that our bodies are made up of mini-universes of the cellular types?.
T:Yes, for have you not read in scripture that the Kingdom of God is inside us? We are also His Buildings and He is our husbandy!
A: Show me that scripture and I will meditate upon it!
T: Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
A: Is there any scientific way to prove your so-called belief that there are cellularized mini-universes inside all Life as being of worth to consider?
T: There are many varied scientific compositions regarding "Fractal Cosmology"! I prefer Mr. Robert Oldershaw's rather symplistic amalgum! He or rather his positioning regarding Fractal Cosmology is still but an infancy in its womb! Here is his website,,,,,,,, http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw/stars2/menu.html I hope you will find it enlightening!
And does the atheist follow along and go to the web-site or does he/she just mosey away never to give such things a second thought? This moseying on down the road seems to be a natural way for many uneducated folks to do! Just exactly how does one turn others toward really really deep thought-filled ambiences of the truth-filled types?
A: I am back! So this Fractal Cosmology,,,, I can see that the Celestial Cosmos may well be made up of an infinite amount of universes! I can somewhat understand that all life forms are made up of cellularized universes! How then does Time have meaning between the cellular and celestial universes?
T: Time is relative to one's surroundings! Do you not know that our sun's planets orbit the sun all in differences of Time itself! Our earth revolves around the sun in approximately 365 days but,,,, the planets closer to the sun revolve at much a faster Time and in reverse the planets further from the sun revolve at a slower Time!
A: I do somewhat understand your proposition that Time is relative to one's placement within their spheres of influence, BUT,,,,, How is Time affected within what you proclaim to be cellularized universes?
T: Time within such a construct as within a cellularized universe goes by at such a phenominal rate, that one second of our Time is but years within the realms of the cellularized universes! And likewise outside the Cosmos of infinite universes only a very few seconds of Cosmotic Time goes by while in our Time billions of years have gone by!
A: So what you are attempting to say is,,,, Time is a preferential dimension based upon where one is within any planetary sphere of influence?
T: Yes!
A: Where then does God play a role in this Celestial Cosmos of Fractal Cosmologies?
T: God is in 3 dimensions all at the same Time! God is above the Celestial Cosmos of infinite universes and He is inside the cellularized universes and He walks amidst our Beings in everyone's mindfielded brainyards! God has given to His Son Christ Jesus rulership of all things that are plant based! Thru humanity's consuming of other life forms for sustanence sakes, an emergence of the Godly generations are unfolded within all Life that consumes life!
A: I am somewhat puzzled in your words. Maybe if I have it written down then I can look at it once in a while when the mood strikes me.
T: Copy and paste it into your files!
A: Okay then! See you around the next turn of the bend! Good bye!
T: Good bye yourself you old hack!
Somebody get the net.
Oh, I see it's the "Fractal Cosmology" purveyor. Perhaps you would better spend your time building a perpetual-motion machine.
“Religious belief is intuitive – and analytical thinking can undermine intuitive thinking,” said Ara Norenzayan, co-author of the study. “So when people are encouraged to think analytically, it can block intuitive thinking.”
I take issue, in part, with that statement as many a discovery was made using both.
It takes both to make us human. One, devoid of the other, makes us less than we are supposed to be. Some, of course, believe that we are "supposed" to be nothing, only what is, is, and there is no "supposed to be." There are things in this universe that neither alone can find. The analytic alone finds no joy, only cause and effect. The inuitive finds joy and only guesses at the cause as it sees only the effect.
Does the man/woman who lives in a bubble believe in the wind? They cannot touch it, see it or feel it. They are insulated from it. They can only see its effects. Query: Are the trees and grass dancing?
"intuitive" means the conclusion most easily jumped to, like superst.ition and knee-jerk reactions. You have to work at analytical thinking, and the result isn't always what you want it to be. Some people can't handle that.
This study should not surprise anyone. The existence of God is one of the great questions of human existence that has been given great amounts of thought by most men, believers and non-believers alike.
Please read the Biblical revelations in this website: thename.ph
Learn the real Name of God and the real Jesus (God punished him for his wickedness) that all religions failed to teach us. It does not propose a new religion but it only reveals the true message of God for our generation. Disastrous events will continue around the world as long as we don’t free ourselves from the false teachings of religions and we don’t acknowledge God's real Name.
?Disastrous events will continue around the world"
You mean life's natural events will continue to occur? I should hope so.
"acknowledge God's real Name."
Is it Bob or Larry? Skippy?
earl, please. We are not in the middle of the end times. Disasters are no more prevalent now than they have been in the past. Deaths by violent acts have been on the decrease for decades. In fact the last decades of the 20th century and the first decade of the 21st have been some of the most, and it is indeed hard to use this word, but "peaceful" as defined by total numbers of deaths cause by wars in human history. And that is with a growing population and increased awareness we now have.
As hard as it is to believe (you don’t have to, you can go look it up), for all the bad things that we are reading about and see every day, we (the world) are actually doing quite well. With the caveat of course that we can always do better.
Most disbelief of the biblical record really centers around whether the Earth and the universe were created in 7 days,and not the billions of years scientific study points to.Consider this....the "days" of Genesis were not literal 24 hour periods as modern man tries to believe they were. A day is also considered as an era, a period of time in history.The term "back in the day" even still doesn't denote any certain date or time.It is a general reference. I agree that ancient tribal ignorance is mostly responsible for the way the record was orally translated and later written.These stories were first spoken at a time when the sundial did not exist, so the ancient understanding of time was totally different than ours. The sun came up, the sun went down.Find food in between,start again the next day.These "days" are not literal,they point instead to eras, or ages.I believe the 7 days of Genesis to be ages of creation.It is said to have taken God 6 of these ages to create everything, including mankind and the rest of the universe.The seventh age has yet to be realized. And this has nothing to do with 2012 doomsday malarky either.
Not to mention a global flood, zombies, people surviving inside a whale's stomach for days, numerology, as well as others.
Does this expalin the earth being created 6000 year ago as opposed to all evidence that it was created 4.5 billion years ago? Are are you saying that the 7 biblical days took place over the currently understood 4.5 billion years?
I guess that's one way to reconcile the two.
"the "days" of Genesis were not literal 24 hour periods as modern man tries to believe they were."
So Genesis was not written for the ancient man or modern man. It was just God putting some notes into his diary. Only God would know what he was referring to. Of course God knew that some day man would be intelligent enough to come to this conclusion on his own. Beautiful.
Those who believe they are deep thinkers are fooling themselves!
There are too many unanswered questions about the origins of the universe to suspend thought about the existence of supernatural, infinite being.
You are the fool who is incapable of deep thought. If you are willing to believe in nonsense rather than to study, learn and think, that isn't OUR problem. Just don't reproduce, thereby raising children and passing on your ignorance.
That logic could be (mis)applied to anything:
There are too many unanswered questions about the origins of the universe to suspend thought about the existence of winged superbabies with magical sippy cups.
There are too many unanswered questions about the origins of the universe to suspend thought about the existence of invisible lizards that control our actions via television remotes.
You see, it's not that the God hypothesis has not been given it's due – it's been considered over and over and over for thousands of years by people willing to think about. It's been rolled around and modified and tested from all different angles. It's just that the hypothesis has never once been supported by the evidence. Clinging to a failed hypothesis for emotional reasons is the very definition of poor analytical thinking.
A conviction changes things.
johnfrichardson
Be a good little quark and one day you may find your gluon and live happily until you are called upon to become a galactic strain! 🙂 🙂 🙂
More Lame Lion/Richard Kaiser word salad.
What is wrong with this guy?? Screw loose? Addict?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY&feature=related
As the self proclaimed “Intellectuals” review the complexity, size, and beauty of the universe and the laws of nature that are at work in their forming they suppress the knowledge that something far greater is at work.
The awesome inner workings of the white blood cell clearly did not happen by chance, but rather is part of a masterful plan designed by the Almighty God that would be revealed to us all through science in these last days!
The Scriptures foretold these truths over 2,000 years ago when God inspired men to write these for us. Open your eyes and see how perfectly these warnings match exactly what we see happening today!!
Romans 1:18-19
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
The clear evidence of Masterful Workmanship is clearly evident in the invisible workings of a single white blood cell as seen in the animation.
Romans 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
It is awesome that once again the inspired scriptures proclaimed way ahead of time that Gods Invisible attributes, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:21-22
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Yes, God has revealed his master workmanship to us all!! Do not reject him, but turn to him for he offers peace and rest to those that will love him and follow him.
So because something is complex a god must have 'created' it?
Sorry, but that's just not proof.
Yes it is.
Yes it is !
Leo-Awesome video along with your post. Thanks for sharing.
Tom, The video is 8 minutes long yet you posted within 2 minutes providing us with evidence you didn't even watch it, or at least all of it.
You will never find the truth if your eyes are not open!
Tom, I was mistaken you could have watched most of it...
"..........they suppress the knowledge that something far greater is at work." – Leo.
Sorry Leo, the word "knowledge" indicates a known fact. Beliefs are not proven facts, they are simply ideas or hypothesis with no empirical evidence to support them.
1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside you.
1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Why is posting scripture always a christards fall back position? None of that points to a god. Most disbelievers understand that the buybull was written and inspired by man. When we don't have all the answers we simply state that we don't know, when a believer doesn't have all the answers they point to a god. Using the god of the gaps argument settles nothing and in fact can be quite damaging.
Tom Tom, fortunately is not a moron and did not need to see the entire video to know that Leo is another crazy christard, too lazy to think for himself.
This is such a red herring. Any cell today is the product of almost 4 billion years of evolutionary change. The first cells to form on this planet were likely much more simplified and far less complex than any that survive today.
Leo said;"The awesome inner workings of the white blood cell clearly did not happen by chance."
What evidence do you have to support this statement? Hmmm?
Evolution can account for it so what your statement really demonstrates is your lack of understanding in scientific principles.
Woody, I am sorry, but the evidence is right before your eyes. God's workmanship and his word is revealed to you so that you do not have an excuse.
You can look at a BMW and say great engineering and then look at just a small example of the workings of a white blood cell and say, thank goodness for random chance and dumb luck??
Life is an engineering feat that is marvelous to behold!!
Leo, you can continue to stubbornly insist that complexity proves there's a god, but it won't work. It does not follow that simply because you can't explain how something occurred it "must" have been done by a god.
Watching an video animation might be interesting, but it doesn't convince me that goddidit.
Steve is absolutely right. Leo is making a claim he cannot defend.
AtheistSteve claims "Any cell today is the product of almost 4 billion years of evolutionary change."
Really have you seen this, or do you just have faith?
He also claims "The first cells to form on this planet were likely much more simplified and far less complex than any that survive today."
Where did the fist cell come from? Abiogenesis? Never proven, yet you beleieve!!
Do you understand the complexity of the simplest form of life that we know? Do you know that the first cell required a cell membrane, where did that come from? It also requires code, where did that come from?
Just fell into place by chance?
And this "Any cell today is the product of almost 4 billion years of evolutionary change"
Put enough Zero's behind this theory and you will believe it!! That's Faith!!
"but the evidence is right before your eyes."
No all the evidence does is point to answers that can still be built upon, not a god. In order for it to point to a god you need to tell us what created said god and provide proof of said god's existence to begin with. The easiest fall back position is to say god did it, when in reality that is the laziest fall back position.
And what will you do Leo when science unravels the puzzle of how life naturally forms from non-life? (microbiologists are close to discovering this) What will you do when simple cells are found on Mars, or Europa? That the building blocks of life, simple chemicals and naturally occurring molecules can spontaneously assemble based on known scientific principles runs counter to your claim that a god is required for life to emerge. What of your creation theory then? If science is correct then the universe is teeming with life wherever conditions are amenable. And if life is everywhere then so too is the possibility of intelligent life. What then of man's supposed high favor in the eyes of your god? Will these aliens also be men? Made in his image also?
No, Leo, it isn't faith that causes me to think, not believe, that evolution occurred. I simply don't need to believe that 'something' created the world. I am able to live with not knowing every answer to the big question. I don't have to plop myself on a pew each Sunday and tell myself that God did it and not ask any more questions.
Leo,,,,,,
Peoples' Brainyards of the aged generations along with the aloof lots have in them mindfields of protruded sociological reasonings too barricaded and walled in by their own devices ineptness! They can see but remain blinded by the logs of socialized constructs and teachings of rudimentally awkwardness cunning! If one practices anything long enough it will become them!
As for your video, I do apllaud you in posting it! Even though the throngs of atheists continue to flex their ideals, they may one day soon be found out for what they truly are! Foolish people who know not the Creators Ways nor His Will to be so done!
Dumber, your posts are the most idiotic pieces of garbage I've ever read.
>>>"Dumber, your posts are the most idiotic pieces of garbage I've ever read."
TomTom. I know you are one of our senior, in age, posters on the Belief Blog but do you realize that when ever you are backed into a corner in a discussion or debate your responces always lean towards these types of responces. The rest of the Faithful just let your post past because they feel you to be a troll but those of us who engage you in open dialouge you always go into these tirades. For someone your age can you not rise above playground name calling and replies?
If you don't like it, Piddler, blow me.
Piddler, you're such a moron that you probably don't have a clue as to whom my post was directed. Try to figure it out. Even with just those two brain cells bumping around in your skull, you should be able to do so. Give it the old community college try.
Yep, classic off the rails TomTom. 🙂 Multiple post of tirades.
Try this, open a MS Word docu'ment and dump all your tirade responces onto a single doc and then cut and paste them into a single responce.
... and blow you? I do not have women falling out of the skies for me but I think I can do better than someone older than my mother. 🙂
Come on TomTom, you can do better, you can be better than this.
There is another way.
Thanks for admitting you have no idea.
"There is another way." Says who? The dishonest, slimy Piddler? I have no reason or need to 'get along' with someone like you, you hypocrite.
If you don't like what I write, you have a choice, Piddles. You can scroll past my posts and my "responces" (sic) or you can leave.
Well Leo, as a lucky young guy with a rather horrible disease I have to ask the same questions Epicurus did...
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
If God created what is in me, then he's a rather sadistic guy. I much prefer to believe that he does not exist and does not have any bearing on what is going on. That way I don't have to hold any animosity toward him. I can move about my day knowing that this did not happen to me because I am a bad person. Nor is the a bad deity up there laghiing at me. WHat is happening to me is just evolution.
I can accept that bad things happen to everyone. Just as good things happen to everyone. That there may be things we cannot understand, but not understanding is OK. That is normal. However advocating something that has, to this point, proven impossible to prove makes no sense.
I'm sorry you are ill, bad lobbyist. I agree with the assessment of 'god' you posted.
I'm sure the Piddler will be along momentarily to tell you to 'cheer up'.
badlobbyist,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,,..
Someone elses words are of those you do make mimickry toward! What kind of bird are you? A mimicking mocking bird? Perhaps a cow bird maybe? Maybe even a horn swallow? Nah! Just a plain ol' parrot! Nothing more and less to nothing!
badlobbyist, What you fail to understand is this world that we have here is not the promised end game that we have provided to us through the scriptures.
Your question of "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?" My response to this is could God use trials, evil, tribulation to make us into the people he wants us to be for his glory?
He promises Christians that we will have tribulation, yet we don't say why are you so mean to us, instead we hope we can handle the trial and prove ourselves worthy.
The Biblical response or picture that we have to this that you bring forth is that God is the Potter and we are the clay.
God allows evil, trials, pain, love, joy, and happiness to mold us into better vessels much like a potter would do through the molding process. He also allows tribulation or trial by fire to strengthen and harden us, also just like that of a potter.
As we overcome and endure these trials and trust in his end game promise of eternal life, we can bring glory to him as so many people have as in example of the video I have attached.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_24_qTNac
This guy could have just laid in his bed and blamed God or he could use what he has to bring glory to God!
The Hope we have is not in this world, but getting to the finish line!
I hope this helps you in the struggles and sicknesses you are going through!!
It didn't appear to me that bad lobbyist 'just laid' (sic) in his bed, Leo. It doesn't sound as if he's whining at all. He simply sees no reason to believe in a being that needs to be worshipped by its creation, and forces those it created to suffer for its glorification.
If god is so into free will, why isn't he letting Nic have as much as almost everybody else?
Ignorance changes things.
Prayer really changes things
Conviction leads to close-mindedness.
ohnfrichardson wrote to me on Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 8:40 am unsoundly proclaiming, "Once again, a theist cites the complexity and "fine tuning" of the universe as an excuse to posit and even more complex and finely tuned – oh, and also invisible – ent-ity , ie some conscious creator god. This is a major step backwards in explanation. But even if a non-half-witted version of this argument is ever put forth, there is ZERO reason to assume that the creator god in question has ANYTHING to do with Jehovah or any other god posited by any extant or formerly extant religion."
Just exactly where the hell do you see in ANY of my posts your juxtapositional maladies of second hand Luke dispersives!!!! ?
Learn something, Richard. And take your next psychotic break somewhere else. It's gotten old here.
It was old weeks ago.
johnfrichardson,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,,..,.,.
Let it be on record that "I never insinuated any way or shape or form what johnfrichardson did transgress me toward! I have for a few hours not written about religious folklore and yet the naysayers do prounce me with such follies! May God Damn them all and shut their attroscious lips and take that hellion of a log out of their mind-sakes!
From a scientist: Einstein
Religion, ... describes our connection to God as the One thing which exists. From this foundation we then see the clear connection between the sciences of philosophy, physics, metaphysics, and theology, as they are all founded on this Reality of One thing existing.
The god that Einstein posited is not a personal god and does not judge people or otherwise get involved in their individual lives.
"“I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings”" -Einstein
Kebos
And the very fact that Mormonism thrives to the extent it does today, founded by a delusional, deceitful, raving lunatic, ought to give mankind pause on the validity of religion. It is the ultimate con game.
Kebos
A Universe full of galaxies is not the same as multiple Universes. Talk to me when you've become a bit more informed of the matter that you wish to discuss.
Kebos
And as for your comment calling yourself a "deranged theist", that's the one thing you did get correct. So at least you have a good dose of introspection. Hold on to that.
Kebos
Any type of thinking that doesn't accept religion at face-value will lead one to move away from religion. Although one has to be interested enough to pursue that thinking. And a person must not be gullible or a blind follower or be caught up in the romantic notions of such things as Jesus died to save you.
Kebos
What rubbish! Besides, a theist would not agree to infinite universes.
A theist believes that god made one universe and one Earth and on that Earth he put mankind. And mankind exists nowhere else in the cosmos because, well, we're special. Not sure why we're special but we are.
God's Oldest Dreamer
On one side you have the analytically religious while across the wayside you have the religiously analytical! That about sums it all up don't ya thinks?
Kebos
Ha! That sums it up quite well.
The summation of a blooming egghead and his wants to rant and berate!
Rants=6
Raves=1
When you move away from the discussion to only post responses intended to bully your opinion on others, I cease to respond. Bye.
Kebos,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,,..
Go! Leave me! Just don't be so damned critical upon the others who try to voice their unmitigated opinions openly and with lessmalice than you dispurse! 🙁 🙁 🙁
ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS AND THINKERS: Part III- more basics:
THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD--
Joe Smith had his Moroni.
"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;
Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).
Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day dem-on of the de-mented.
The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.
Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
Some added references to "tink-erbells".
newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm
"The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."
Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:
"TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."
And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:
"In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."
"The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "
"The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "
For added information see the review at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel
Bull sh it alert hit report abuse on any reality posts
And the very fact that Mormonism thrives to the extent it does today, founded by a delusional, deceitful, raving lunatic, ought to give mankind pause on the validity of religion. It is the ultimate con game.
CHRISTIAN MORALS-A MYRIAD OF CONTRADI.CTIONS
CHRISTIANS:
1) Preach the immorality of gambling.
2) Preach the immorality of se.x before marriage.
3) Preach the immorality of adultery.
4) Regulates alcohol legislation that sometimes leads to prohibition.
GOD OR JESUS
1) God gambles by making a be with Satan about Job. (Job 1:6-12)
2) God impregnates a woman that he is not married to.
3) God impregnates a woman that he is not married to.
4) Jesus turns water in to wine and offers it to those around him.
Kebos,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,,..
Kebos wrote on Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 7:57 am, declaring, "What rubbish! Besides, a theist would not agree to infinite universes. A theist believes that god made one universe and one Earth and on that Earth he put mankind. And mankind exists nowhere else in the cosmos because, well, we're special. Not sure why we're special but we are."
God created the heavens (PLURAL) and just exactly where did you get the idea from where theists believe in one universe!!! ? I may yet have the ooozings of a deranged theist, but I believe in an infinite supply of universes within the grand Cosmos! Do you remember when the Hubble space telescope was pointed to a blackened region of outer space and after (I Think) 8 or 10 minutes of exposure, a picture was created showing that blackened space was full of galaxies! What doe doe bird were you egged from?
A Universe full of galaxies is not the same as multiple Universes. Talk to me when you've become a bit more informed of the matter that you wish to discuss.
And as for your comment calling yourself a "deranged theist", that's the one thing you did get correct. So at least you have a good dose of introspection. Hold on to that.
Kebos,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,,..,.
You missed the boat completely you did! Astronomers were somewhat sure that nothing at all would be upon the exposure hence these astronomers were deeply shocked for now they were perplexed and vexed as to just what to say about the universe's outer most reaches! In truth Kebos,, you are a blooming idiot when it comes to being anal-lytical! 🙁 🙁 🙁
Kebos is correct. The issue of how many galaxies there are in this universe is entirely separate from the question of whether there are multiple universes.
Name calling of me and yourself is not needed. Nor does it put your defence of religion in a better standing. I suppose it might make the casual reader think you know what you're talking about.
On your last point, I don't believe anywhere in my readings was the point made that if one had a powerful enough telescope, one could see a different Universe than ours. Again, you speak of things you have read little on. By the way, on this topic of multiverses, I know very little too. The difference between you and I is that at least I dont have the arrogance stopping me from admitting that.
Whereas on the topic of religion, I know enough to know it is a complete crock of delusion made by man for man to control man, amass wealth and exert power over all.
johnfrichardson,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,,..
Please do read the post directly on top of your last post!
I did read it, dreamer. These are two entirely different issues. Scientists are constantly uncovering new puzzles and mysteries concerning the structure of this universe. The biggest puzzle over the amount of matter doesn't concern galaxies visible but only with long exposures on the hubble telescope (lots of these universes are more readily "seen" at wavelengths outside the visible spectrum), but so-called dark matter that appears undetectable except through its apparent gravitational pull. But the deep cosmological questions that led to the positing of the multiverse model are a whole different matter.
Kebos is correct when he suggests that you appear to be too arrogant to admit what you don't know.
johnfrichardson,,,,,, ,,,,,, ,,..,,..
Can you not see what I mean when I say that ours is not the only universe with the COSMOS? Do I have to once again express my perceptions regarding Fracatl Cosmology? Did you not go to the site I pointed towards regarding Fractal Cosmology?
If as it is stated: “Analytical thinking alone does not necessarily lead to a decrease in religious belief.” there is no real relationship.
And if: “his team doesn’t think analytical thinking is superior to intuitive thinking.” why then thinking that the outcome of intuitive thinking is worthless?
Any type of thinking that doesn't accept religion at face-value will lead one to move away from religion. Although one has to be interested enough to pursue that thinking. And a person must not be gullible or a blind follower or be caught up in the romantic notions of such things as Jesus died to save you.
So you're telling me that if I think about religion in an analytical way, that is in an unbiased, logical way, I stand a good chance of concluding that religion is biased and illogical?
On one side you have the analytically religious while across the wayside you have the religiously analytical! That about sums it all up don't ya thinks? 🙂 🙁 🙂
Ha! That sums it up quite well.
Prayer changes things .
@Atheism is not healthy
I have a strong faith and I also believe that prayer works; however this post is getting very old and is counterproductive. Please stop.
Show me a "christian" who is opposed to prayer and I will show you a deceived follower of the other side !
For newbies only! This diddy is about an atheist and a theist A is for Atheist and T is for Theist Duhhhh
A: There is no god!
T: Then how do you explain the fine tuning in our Universe?
A: There are an infinite number of universes. Given an infinite possibility, any finite tuning becomes possible.
T: Can you prove that infinite Multiverse ?
A: No, but it makes sense.
T: To my views I do agree in there being infinite universes with the Grand Cosmos!
A: Because of all the killing in the world done in the name of god, I won't accept that as an answer. I'll believe in far more unlikely things because Mathematics proves to me that even if it is unlikely, it is still possible. Like given enough time, a group of monkeys can produce the entirety of Hamlet if trapped in a room full of typewriters.
T: What you seem to forget is the finite yet infinite formations of cellularized mini-universes making up all of Life, be it animal or insectual or even plant based!
A:Are you saying that our bodies are made up of mini-universes of the cellular types?.
T:Yes, for have you not read in scripture that the Kingdom of God is inside us? We are also His Buildings and He is our husbandy!
A: Show me that scripture and I will meditate upon it!
T: Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
A: Is there any scientific way to prove your so-called belief that there are cellularized mini-universes inside all Life thingamabobs?
T: There are many varied scientific compositions regarding "Fractal Cosmology"! I prefer Mr. Robert Oldershaw's rather symplistic amalgum! He or rather his positioning regarding Fractal Cosmology his still but an infancy! Here is his website,,,,,,,, http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw/stars2/menu.html I hope you will find it enlightening!
Didn't you already post this shit?
Can't you bu read the notice or should I stick it in your face!!! ?
What rubbish! Besides, a theist would not agree to infinite universes.
A theist believes that god made one universe and one Earth and on that Earth he put mankind. And mankind exists nowhere else in the cosmos because, well, we're special. Not sure why we're special but we are.
The copy/paste thing is stupid. Be a little more original, a little less redundant. Quick being a douche.
Pardon me.
*Quit being a douche.
Once again, a theist cites the complexity and "fine tuning" of the universe as an excuse to posit and even more complex and finely tuned – oh, and also invisible – ent-ity , ie some conscious creator god. This is a major step backwards in explanation. But even if a non-half-witted version of this argument is ever put forth, there is ZERO reason to assume that the creator god in question has ANYTHING to do with Jehovah or any other god posited by any extant or formerly extant religion.
Johnf – Agreed. Theists have a difficult time explaining who created God. Perhaps evolution? 🙂
The Multi-God Hypothesis: Every universe gets one free god. Those that get smart gods get to be fine-tuned to allow life. Those that get stupid gods just get stuff that dissipates randomly. Hey, this is at least a step up from the usual "God musta done it" thesis!!!!
johnfrichardson
Your "brain-yard" is way too full of sociologically endorsed mindfields! You seem to wantonly barricade your thoughts with meaningless entropies,,,,,,,
@Kebos
God Is. That is God explained and all we are given. God always is that is one quality that makes God, God.