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 An exhibit of Rodin's "The Thinker."
April 27th, 2012
04:01 PM ET
Study: Analytic thinking can decrease religious beliefBy Becky Perlow, CNN (CNN) - When was the last time you sat down and questioned your decision to believe in God? According to a new study, that simple act could decrease your religious conviction – even if you’re a devout believer. In the study, published Friday in the journal Science, researchers from Canada’s University of British Columbia used subtle stimuli to encourage analytical thinking. Results from the study found that analytical thinking could decrease religious belief. “Religious belief is intuitive - and analytical thinking can undermine intuitive thinking,” said Ara Norenzayan, co-author of the study. “So when people are encouraged to think analytically, it can block intuitive thinking.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Some of the more than 650 Canadian and American participants in the study were shown images of artwork that encouraged analytic thinking, while another group was shown images that were not intended to produce such thinking. One of the images used to trigger analytic thinking was of Rodin’s statue “The Thinker.” A previous study showed that such images improved performance on tests that indicate analytic thinking. In addition to the artwork images, the religion study used other stimuli to promote analytical thinking. After exposure to such stimuli, researchers gauged participants’ religious beliefs through a series of questions. Subjects who had performed analytical tasks were more likely to experience a decrease in religious belief than those who were not involved in such tasks. That included devout believers. “There’s much more instability to religious belief than we recognize,” said Norenzayan, noting that life’s circumstances and experiences, from traumatic events to joyous occasions, can lead people to become more or less religious. “Religion is such an important part of the world and we have so little understanding of it,” he added. “So regardless of what you think about religion, it’s important to understand it because it’s so important in the world.” Norenzayan is quick to mention that the experiments did not turn devout believers into total atheists. But he speculated that if people habitually think analytically, like scientists or lawyers do, it would lead to less religious belief in the long run. Robert McCauley, director of the Center for Mind, Brain and Culture at Emory University, and author of "Why religion is natural and science is not," found the study particularly interesting because he thought it was difficult to make even a minimal change in religious belief. “It’s not likely you would argue someone out of a religious belief very often because they don’t hold those beliefs on argumentative or reflective grounds in the first place,” said McCauley, who believes religious beliefs rely primarily on intuitive thinking. Analytical thinking alone does not necessarily lead to a decrease in religious belief, emphasized Norenzayan. “There’s a combination of factors [as to] why people become believers or nonbelievers - this is only one piece of the puzzle,” Norenzayan said, explaining that his team doesn’t think analytical thinking is superior to intuitive thinking. “It makes the story we need to tell about religion and religious belief all the more complicated,” said McCauley. “That’s what great scientific research does – ask more interesting questions.” soundoff (3,468 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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And oddly enough, our dumbest citizens also prefer Fox News. Coincidence?
you mean Faux News.
thank you and good night. my fiance just packed us a bowl. have fun making the theists eat logic! >8D
Bootyfunk, congrats on getting together!
Just remember the marriage thingy is just a formality and does not magically do anything.
I've seen too many people expect unrealistic things from a bullshlt ceremony, and I'm not just talking about marriage here.
Mazel Tov!
That's what we all face..not just people who turn atheist.Its called testing one's faith
Faith is fear. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a bunch of pussies living in fear of the inevitable.
Faith is not fear. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. That's why we beleive in God.
Belief: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
–Merriam-Webster
The Christian faith is not fiedism. It's not "reliance on faith rather than reason in pursuit of religious truth" The Christian faith is evidenced. It's not "a firm belief in something for which there is no proof" But atheist will continue to use these straw man arguments.
Bootyfunk: "yep, and they have to gloss over contradictions that show the bible is just wrong about many things we now know to be true: the earth is not flat, the earth is not the center of the universe, there was never a great flood, the list of God's creating life is in error to when we know species actually evolved, etc"
1) Flat earth NOT a Bible doctrine.
2) Earth center (I assume you mean physical center?) of universe NOT a Bible doctrine.
3) Great flood disproven? NOT In fact, lots of evidence that it could have happened.
4) Evolved species argument is specious (pun intended); many ways to interpret Genesis on that one (see old-earth Christian argument).
Anything else?
The bible is full of contradictions, buttfart. Admit it. Be honest just once.
The statement "the Bible is full of contradictions" is a form of the 'glittering generalities' fallacy Tom.
1. A flat earth is implied by the bible in multiple places and in multiple ways
2. "Earth Centric" is most certainly the view of the bible, or perhaps a "god centric" with the earth nested within a "heavens/hell" 'shell.'
3. A global flood did not occur on the earth as described by the bible, and a global flood is not really possible unless we talk about very early conditions before any land mass features as we know them or any biological life as we understand it.
4. Evolutionary theory does not match up with either Genesis account in the slightest.. Sure, there's a few arguments, but they're poor and any moron can see there's no clear correlation between the two at all.
5. The bible says a bunch of stupid sh!t that sounds pretty much exactly like a group of people borrowing customs and myths from the peoples around them until a particularly powerful group (Romans) pushed the idea of one particular god-myth over other god myths of that time–and the rest is history.. Christianity is a custom and no part of it is provable or reasonable..
Denying your own bible.. that's so funny.
You whack jobs are hilarious. I wonder how many excuses you make up each and every day to cover yourself in case your are confront with those contradictions..
LOL. you kidding me? using a "that's NOT a bible doctrine" excuse doesn't work. you don't get out of it that easy. it says these things IN the bible. read it for yourself. look it up. the bible also says there are unicorns, dragons, satyrs and c.o.c.katrice. it also says everyone on earth spoke the same language, but then God was afraid (Tower of Babel) and make everyone spontaneously speak different language. all kinds of non-sense in there.
1. says it in the bible
2. says it in the bible
3. what evidence for a great flood are you referring to? please post website with doc.umentation.
4. many ways to interpret the list of what order God created life in? he gives 2 specific lists - which also contradict each other. we know life evolved in a different order. but that's a matter of interpretation? lol. terrible logic. "i just interpret that 2+2=5, not 4. doesn't mean i'm wrong. derp!"
next question? wrong. same questions. you didn't answer them.
Nice evasion, biggestofallfarts. You're simply a lying son0fab1tch.
by the way, you realize it would be impossible to cover all the land in water, ie the great flood? there is a finite amount of water on earth. it doesn't fluctuate from day to day. a little is added via asteroids, meteorites, etc.. there was never a great flood, it's just a story christianity ripped off from another religion that came before it.
Using mathematics to work out proper ratios to rain fall and flooding has a tendency to destroy these theists claims.
They'll avoid that topic because of it. Watch them dodge.
Even if the lying little fraud DID realize it, it would never say so. It can't. It has to deny, deny, deny.
That's the only way it can function, albeit poorly, in life.
@bigbang
still waiting. answer my questions.
*tappy foot* Me too.
*crickets chirping*
Why am I not shocked by bigfart's inability to respond?
Another deluded wackaloon bites the big one.
b4bigbang
Sure the Bible says that the Earth is flat. There is a Hebrew word for "sphere", but they call the Earth "round" instead. Round is not the shape of the Earth, even if you look at it from space.
b4bigbang
Is there enough water on the planet to completely cover all the land, even with melting all the ice? That would be a big fat nope. The Bible states in Genesis that there is actually water above and below the land, which is where the idea of there being enough water to flood everywhere probably comes from. It also calls the moon a "light", which it is not. It just reflects sunlight, which they couldn't understand at that time, with their cosmological model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAg0f7rIu5c
Intelligent analytical people may well have a faith in God. I for one am a sinner in need of salvation! I cannot rid myself of my sinful past and its memories do ever haunt me. I cannot let go of their haunting visions that do on occasion come up in my daily affairs. I do so need a savior and a redeemer of lost souls! For in death's gates will I soon be going thru! I do not want to become of nothingness and am hopeful there truly is Life in abundant measures or as I understand it a continual life then death then life forever onward throughout eternities Timed progressions. May God show mercies to all of us!
Do bee do bee do.
If you see yourself as a sinner then that's what you are, not according to any god, but according to your own definition..
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
Oh, and Bootyf, the atheists often say that the evidence contradicts the Bible, proving it unreliable. Problem with that is that you must limit that statement to the 'young-earth' camp. There are a lot of scientists who are 'old-earth' believers. They see the Genesis account of creation as a poetic or figurative narrative of creation, while believing that the earth and life came into being the mainstream science way.
So that's the only sticking point, huh?
Absolutely not.. The bible fails for multiple reasons.. It fails logically, obviously.. It fails in other ways not related to YEC arguments.
"They see the Genesis account of creation as a poetic or figurative narrative of creation, while believing that the earth and life came into being the mainstream science way."
yep, and they have to gloss over contradictions that show the bible is just wrong about many things we now know to be true: the earth is not flat, the earth is not the center of the universe, there was never a great flood, the list of God's creating life is in error to when we know species actually evolved, etc. you have to start making excuses for all the errors in a book that is supposed to be without error. it starts to not add up. it raises more and more questions. and the more answers you search for, the more detail you demand, the more you find God a hard concept to take seriously.
The bible contradicts itself. You don't need an external source to destroy the bible when it kills itself. It's stupid. And so are the people that keep defending it.
"The bible fails for multiple reasons.. It fails logically, obviously.. It fails in other ways not related to YEC arguments."
–momoya
And yet momoya didn't substantiate that claim.
"The bible contradicts itself. You don't need an external source to destroy the bible when it kills itself."
- A Chair to your Face.
Another unsubstatiated claim. Seems to be quite common among atheists.
I have no problem with those who truly have faith and believe there's a god, as long as they acknowledge that there are no 'facts' or 'proof' of any such thing. It would be most refreshing to see some honesty from the zealots; why can't they simply admit that there IS no 'proof' or 'evidence' and that religion is, and always has been, a matter of having faith and belief in something that cannot be proven to exist?
The dishonesty is what I find disgusting.
Fear of death. Fear of the unknown.
These two are the most paramount points that holds their tongues to agreeing to facts that their gods are in their heads. Because they want that dream of being saved. They want they purity – they need to believe they are going to a better place to sooth their weak minds.
They can't agree to say they are wrong because it denies their dreams.
the dishonesty and the cult recruitment. if their children were presented all views fairly, it might not be so bad. but it's hard for people raised in a cult to escape a cult mentality. most atheists in america come from theistic families. i feel like it really doesn't give the kids a fair chance.
but i agree, anyone that believes in God or a higher being, as long as they acknowledge their belief is based on faith, not fact and if they don't try to shove their beliefs down my throat - i have no problem with them. i live in hawaii. quite a lot of people out here like that. also a lot of religious nuts, but a lot of more progressive theists here too.
@Tom: The problem with your approach there is to accept the 'no-proofers' w/out disgust or calling them liars, but when I or another testifies of a miraculous healing we received, it's time for you to react with disgust, calling us liars.
Where's the logic in that?
In the fact that your experiences are not provable or significant to anyone but you. They're anecdotes, not proof.
You can claim that you 'saw' something. So can I. Doesn't mean it was there. Doesn't mean it was real.
Too bad if you are upset that others don't just buy your beliefs wholesale simply because you're convinced they're valid.
And in the actions people like you take, based on your anecdotes. You wanna believe? You say you saw, heard, felt, experienced something? Yay for you. Don't pretend that it's proof of anything; it isn't. And stop pretending it gives you some right to dictate how others should behave or live; it doesn't.
If zealots like you, biggestofallfarts, would cease your constant interference in the lives of others you don't know and can't know, it would go a long way toward some kind of understanding. But you never seem to be able to just butt the hell out of everyone else's life. You think you have some right or imperative to tell others how they ought to do things. Just shut up and leave others alone.
"but when I or another testifies of a miraculous healing we received, it's time for you to react with disgust, calling us liars."
most are liars that say they were "faith" healed. but some definitely do believe it. either way, they are wrong. and deception is usually part of it. anyone that couldn't walk before and then gets faith healed and says they can walk because of it - is lying. but some people that are nutty and think they are possessed may think they are "healed" and believe it. that's cr@p too, of course, since the person was never possessed in the first place.
here's a great question for you? how come God never heals amputees? he heals the blind and the crippled, but not amputees... i wonder why...?
answer: because amputations can't be faked. blindness and being crippled sure can, easily in fact, "oh, i can't see a thing!" huzzah! "i'm cured! i can see! hallelujah!" but amputations can't be faked. hard to grow a leg back on someone we can clearly see has no leg. so the real answer is that faith healing is fake/bogus.
the problem with your claim is there is no evidence to support it - which is the problem with your whole "God" theory anyway. i have an idea... contact James Randi and tell him you want to take him up on his still outstanding offer to show proof of God, fairies, ESP, aliens, etc. for the $1M prize. and then take an amputee to him and pray his amputation away in a scientific setting, which shouldn't matter if you have true faith. and you'll get a $1M prize. you can use it for yourself or give it away to charity. and then we'll believe your faith healing claims.
I wonder when God will heal your sorry soul, b4.
atheist here come across as pretentious , do not seem to have grasp of probabilities and weak in logic and latch on typos and petty insults to cover their ignorance .
If you are not aware, , probabilities is important discipline of Mathematics.
Of course if instead of dual probabilities 1. God exist 2.. God Does not Exist.
you can think of other occurrences or events , you are free to do that.
remember guys Socrates had to die because he had to prove that l his wisdom about existence of soul was true and he was not afraid to die .
@vic
You are being disingenuous and are not keeping track of your own argumentation.. I think the problem is that you're a poor debater.. A good debater knows exactly how he wants the arguments (from him and you) to progress, and he leads you down the path until you find yourself in a corner you cannot back out of.. You seem to just say stuff that you think sounds cool in the hope that it might go something like how a professional would do it.. You make the mistake of believing the "magic" that practice implies.. It's never as easy as it looks.. When that pro guitar shredder is sticking his tongue out and seems like he's just flapping his fingers across the fretboard, he's just acting.. It's not that easy..
Work on your logic and reasoning.. The problem isn't your audience; it's you.
Are you taking writing lessons with God's Oldest Dreamer?
The number of times you morons preach about your fairy tales and give accounts of pascal's wager are always funny to watch.
Keep at it. You'll die like everyone else and all you have are those empty words.
"The lord will come back to save me .." "Jesus will come back and save the world." "Just you wait when we get to heaven and you burn in hell." Keep yakking.
"do not seem to have grasp of probabilities and weak in logic and latch on typos and petty insults to cover their ignorance ."
we get frustrated. in all honesty, how would you feel if most of the society you lived in were part of a cult? a cult that believed all sorts of craziness? that's how we feel. and don't pretend like theists don't constantly insult atheists. cry somewhere else please.
weak in logic? lol. are you kidding me? be specific. give an example. theists like to argue v.aguely because when their backs are against the wall, all they can come up with are v.ague accusations and "Goddidit" explanations. so here's my challenge. show what you said is true. give specific evidence how atheists are using flawed logic.
*drum roll please*
Next fucking time try this in English.
"But why do you believe there actually is a God? Because some book says so?"
That's what you all think, and you keep parroting it over and over.........But you don't know what WE know, because you've allowed yourself to become blind! There is much more to this book you refer to, then the words written in it! It is backed up by the testimony of the living God!
Do tell. Where is that 'testimony' to be found?
So funny. You cranks really deserve your delusions.
the bible is disgusting. it tells its cult members to kill g.a.y.s, non-virgin brides and disobedient children, as well as people who work on the sabbath (which would be everyone at the mall, wallmart, restaurants, etc). people who don't think the bible is disgusting haven't read it. it's vile. i encourage people to read it for themselves. it's full of violence, genocide, prejudice, misogyny, h.omophobia, i.ncest, infanticide, r.ape, etc. most of it done in the name of god or by god himself. fastest way to become an atheist? read the bible from cover to cover. and read it with theistic, historic and skeptic's guides, get all view points. the only conclusion a sane, ethical person could come to is that the bible is disgusting.
here's a short video on youtube that proves how disgusting the bible is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
You clai that others who do not hink like you do have "become blind.". How can you demonstrate this blindness??
For example, we could easily prove blindness to someone physically blind by a variety of methods.. How could you prove that you have some sort of "spiritual sight" that others lack?
@momoya
These whack jobs are all the same. They have big mouths for words – that is all. One can always boasts about anything in this world but having the proof to back it up gives credence to those words. They never can!
In this physical world we all compete for bragging rights and inflate our own sense of self importance. If you claim to have a billion dollar bank account anybody questioning you will be amazed if you showed them your balance statement. Physical cold hard facts really tell it. These spiritual morons all think they are the leaders in spirituality, and like to preach down to others. They have nothing but empty words when they are questioned. That is all they are.
didn't work for Don McLeroy, an ex-texas school board creationist that wants all text books to teach creationism.
here he is on The Colbert Report looking like a moron:
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/mon-april-23-2012-don-mcleroy
just go to the last segment of the show. creationism... LOL.
If you look at history of Christianity, Catholicism is not even close to what the Bible even teaches. It really isn't. We are only saved by grace alone through faith. Christianity, true Christianity is what I belong to and it is the same as it was founded on Jesus Christ.
that you believe the twisted view that we all need to be saved tells it all.
It blows my mind that people are so goddamn stupid they'll believe in the bible.
Cq: "But why do you believe there actually is a God? Because some book says so?"
But why do you believe there actually is ________? Because some book says so?
Yep, that's the way most knowledge works, Darwin's theories, Big Bang, etc, etc.
Because there is evidence that evolution occurs. There is no evidence there's a god.
No evidence for the existence of God *that you'll ever see* Tom Tom; that is, unless you repent.
For the members of the household of faith (and anyone else with an open mind), there is observable evidence.
No, there isn't. If there were, it would be provable. You'd be the first one on here to put it on display.
You can't do that because it doesn't exist. There is faith. There is belief. There is no proof.
Oh, and btw Tom, all that "evidence" is gathered by the vast majority of atheists (drum-roll please): from books.
No, bigfart, it was gathered by scientists observing, performing experiments, gathering data and analyzing it.
You can keep on pretending you have a point. And you do. It's on your head.
Yes Tom Tom, scientists gathered the evidence and put it in books so that you and the rest of us can read it.
*You* didn't do anything but read the books.
Did I claim otherwise? Where?
If you can cite evidence to support your theory, and that evidence is based on data gathered and analyzed by scientists, go ahead.
You said that "all that evidence was..gathered from books."
Care to elaborate? Do you think scientists read books and draw their conclusions from them? Or do you think they actually base their conclusions on the results of experiments they perform?
Where do you get your data?
So-called 'physical' science is based on scientific method, and an experiment must be repeatable. Other academic fields not so, eg, archaeology, theology.
Let science be science and let the other fields be themselves.
Don't attempt to raise science above other fields of endeavor. You atheists may prefer science, but merely preferring it doesn't make it superior.
So, you have no data? No physical evidence? No experiments that prove there's a god?
Thanks for admitting it.
LOL, Tom, trying to reason with a theist is like banging your head against a wall. you religious wackos are basically arguing that evidence doesn't prove anything. hahaha. read that again, "evidence" and "prove" are the key words. there is tons of empirical evidence for evolution and other scientific explanations of the world - there is ZERO for God.
@BigBang, who wrote:
"No evidence for the existence of God *that you'll ever see* Tom Tom; that is, unless you repent."
riiiiiiight... you have to believe in magic in order to see the evidence... that's not evidence. "if you just believed in magic you'd see the fairies!" see the problem there?
try using some logic. just try. there is LOTS of evidence of evolution. how do you explain that away? instead of asking for the missing link, how do you explain all the evidence for evolution? and btw, how many missing links do you want? we've found like 20 species of human. 20. now they think they might have found a couple more. before you creationists ask that dumb question about the missing link, do your homework. study anthropology and read up on the latest finds. how do you explain all the evidence?
Oh, I know, Booty, but it's amusing to watch bigfart hang himself on his own retard.
I repeat: Yes Tom Tom, scientists gathered the evidence and put it in books so that you and the rest of us can read it.
*You* didn't do anything but read the books.
Notice I agreed that the scientists do the field-work but all the rest of us do (yourself included) is read and believe/not believe the books. Or, to elaborate, to agree/disagree with any conclusions they may place at the end of the chapter.
The difference is that there is evidence presented by scientists. You've presented nothing. As usual.
If the only way I can view the "evidence" you claim exists is by simply 'believing' it exists, it's not evidence. It's not proof.
That's fine, bigfuckup, or at least it may be fine for you. But you continue to insist that you have some proof of God. If that is the case, it shouldn't require faith or belief.
@Bootyfunk: Same thing i told Tom applies to you. You're telling me all the marvels of 'proven' Darwinism that you got out of books. Dont you have any actual scientists you can talk with face-to-face? That would be a start, esp if you talked with a number of them.
Btw, even if all the conclusions of the old-earth evolutionists is 100% correct, that does not necessarily cast doubr on the Bible's account of the existence of its God.
If that were so, then we wouldn't so many old-earth scientists who are also believers in God, now would we?
Hmm. Do you talk with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, big fraud?
Bootyfunk, what i told Tom applies also to you. You're telling me all the marvels of 'proven' Darwinism that you got out of books. Dont you have any actual scientists you can talk with face-to-face? That would be a start, esp if you talked with a number of them.
Btw, even if all the conclusions of the old-earth evolutionists is 100% correct, that does not necessarily cast doubr on the Bible's account of the existence of its God.
If that were so, then we wouldn't so many old-earth scientists who are also believers in God, now would we?
@Tom: Or do you talk with Darwin or Einstein?
@b4
The issue you raise is one of authority.. When it comes to science books, you can just follow the steps and come to the same conclusion.. The best scientists have found some additional information that goes along with proven facts AND causes greater understanding..
With "holy' books, they do not end up being correct where we can test their claims, so it's very unlikely that they are correct where we cannot test the claims.. Also, the books make a whole lot more sense as revised, revised, revised myths..
when a scientist releases "results" or "evidence", they put their viewpoint up for peer review. any scientist that finds a hole in another scientist's proposed hypothesis/theory/law will rip him apart. scientists love proving other scientists wrong. lol. it's part of the process. it's why if you are going to put forth "evidence", it better stand up to scrutiny by others who are experts in the field. and not just that. anyone can step up and challenge any scientist's evidence - you just better be ready to have your counter-evidence reviewed and scrutinized just as closely. it's why if anything, scientists (and atheists) worship the truth. the scientific method reveals the truth.
now see the difference? with religion, no matter what question you ask, you are required to believe in magic as the end answer - "Goddidit". that's a simple, ignorant and unsatisfying answer. the truth is much more interesting and more amazing than the boring, child-like myths offered in the bible. there is no evidence for God. you just have to believe in an invisible diety in the sky - "Goddidit". yawn. how boring. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
Of course not. But I can read the evidence they and other scientists have presented that support their hypotheses.
What evidence do you have other than the Bible?
Darwin and Einstein give us theories we can prove or disprove.. (When a theory is disproved, you automatically learn something, so it's an acceptable outcome–usually it means we learn a lot more than if the theory had been correct).
Which theory implied by the bible might we test to know more about its message or its god, and how might that verification be carried out?
To understand evolution and see that it is occurring, has occurred, and will continue to occur does not require me to 'believe' in something for which there is no evidence. I do not have to suspend my reason to grasp the concept or analyze the evidence. It's quite clear and obvious.
No such thing can be stated about an invisible being who raised an arm and 'created' a world.
Again, what does the statement "A big magic sky daddy created everything with a spell" help science?? Does it make research results clearer?? Does it allow us to do experiments in half the time?? What??
"Dont you have any actual scientists you can talk with face-to-face"
did i say something to make you think i didn't? my best friend is a geologist. other friends include an oceanographer and an astrophysicist. and believe me, i plague them with questions. and every answer i get confirms my disbelief in god. perhaps YOU should get some friends in the scientific fields...
also, you keep saying what we learned is from a book, just like you, but that's completely FALSE. again, scientific evidence is up for review by anyone (and will be especially harshly reviewed by peers) - there is ZERO evidence for god. real evidence. not imaginary evidence. you know the difference, so stop playing ignorant. there is no evidence for God. none. prove me wrong. hint: use empirical evidence.
It's a completely asinine argument to begin with; it doesn't even really deserve a response..
Knowledge is transferred most often through the use of words and images.. Not all information transferred through words and images is suspect just because some collections of words and images are stupid as all fvck (unless you understand that they are myths and therefore have historical value but not "truth" value).
So, you dont like the easy answer, 'goddidit'. Neither do I nor Scientists who are believers approachthis thing. That would be like saying, You see that picture of an H-bomb? Dont worry about it – it's magic, mandidit.
No, they study the universe to find out *how* goddidit, you know, according to physical law.
Then you should be able to explain it in detail, bigfug.
You claim you don't like the 'easy answer', big fake, but that's all you've presented thus far. You have no data, no evidence, no experiments, no cites. Where are they, if they exist? Post them.
Watch the morons cling to the all time phrase .. "it's in the bible."
Wait for it.
I have to say that I find it difficult to take you seriously when you capitalize "scientists" in the middle of a sentence for no good reason whatsoever.
But it did make me laugh.
Okay, I'm cool with that.. So since saying "goddidit" doesn't help science, why don't we leave things the way that they are.. To the degree that science exposes facts that contradict many of the bible's claims, your faith will need to increase.. But that's not the real issue; the real issue is your camp needs to act like they are following a mediocre/poor philosophy instead of a god.. The more people that understand that, the better.
yeah, and the evidence from scientists contradict the bible and any version of a god/goddess. what you're saying is just dumb. they study the universe that god made? but in studying the universe, the evidence points to there being no god at all. the evidence points to him being a religious/social construct. the funny thing is, you believe that EXACT thing about all other religions/mythologies, but not your own. the other thousands have been wrong, but not yours. LOL. evidence. look the word up and stop wasting our time.
Evidence, experimental data, etc, of *what* Tom?
I was referring to the ways that the so-called 'hard sciences' differ from other fields of study (and how they are similar as well, eg, knowledge stored in books for us to read), not pointing the conversation into some new discovery.
Stop prevaricating, bigdoofus. There's no evidence of the existence of a supreme being. If there were, you'd produce cites for it here and now.
Really, when you're in a hole, it's best to stop digging.
It's a stupid issue and you know it.. If it really matters, let's see the outline of your specific argumentation that relies upon your hasty implication.. What exact point are you making with your comments about knowledge in books?. Let's have it.
Bigfoofy posted:No, they study the universe to find out *how* goddidit, you know, according to physical law.
Then post what they've "found out".
It is funny to see bfarting disparages "BOOKS", as though they were somehow inherently suspect.
They throw everything and anything they can at the wall because none of it sticks for long and they know it.
Yeah. The smell of desperation is in the air every time they post crap like this.
Oh, wait. That isn't 'desperation'. That's....dogsh1t.
momoya:
1. A flat earth is implied by the bible in multiple places and in multiple ways
So now I must take the word of an avowed atheist who just now *backpedaled* and had to say the Bible *implies* it? Maybe in *your* interpretation – FAIL. Also, chap/verse (proof) please. (no never mind, you already admitted "implied").
2. "Earth Centric" is most certainly the view of the bible, or perhaps a "god centric" with the earth nested within a "heavens/hell" 'shell.' Again, chap/verse please? Geo-center? Proof? From Bible? Btw, Earth IS the center of human life, political systems and powers, etc. so of course all accounts will acknowledge this fact.
3. A global flood did not occur on the earth as described by the bible, and a global flood is not really possible unless we talk about very early conditions before any land mass features as we know them or any biological life as we understand it.
If you really believe we've closed the book on that one, that's your right. I recall an atheist the other day saying Science is constantly finding errors within itself and having to revise its conclusions. That's what science is about, so jury is still out.
4. Evolutionary theory does not match up with either Genesis account in the slightest.. Sure, there's a few arguments, but they're poor and any moron can see there's no clear correlation between the two at all.
Again, those arguments are from the young earth camp, we've already covered that. Lots of scientists are old earth believers.
5. The bible says a bunch of stupid sh!t that sounds pretty much exactly like a group of people borrowing customs and myths from the peoples around them until a particularly powerful group (Romans) pushed the idea of one particular god-myth over other god myths of that time–and the rest is history.. Christianity is a custom and no part of it is provable or reasonable..
Statement #5 is an example of the 'glittering generalities' fallacy and is nothing but subjective opinion.
What else?
Still capitalizing "science", fart? I can't stop laughing at your inept attempts to defend your indefensible position. Really, you're ridiculous in the extreme.
The Bible is no more than a collection of myths.
That big frump thinks it's a factual account of something is pretty much sufficient evidence that it isn't.
b4bigbang
All the books about evolution, the Big Bang, or whatever other scientific knowledge that you happen to find conflicting with your religious beliefs, all are just reporting findings that have been tested using the same methods that all science is conducted. So, unless you want to claim that all the meds, engineering, and other benefits of science that you enjoy every day can't actually work because science itself must be unreliable if it gives us evolution and a self-producing universe, you have to accept all science, even the science that presents truths that you'd rather not admit to.
either way we have to die to prove our points.
when we die there are 2 possibilities
1. dark void , black hole or nothingness aim sure this is the ultimate route of atheist prefer .
2. we our souls meet face to face with our Creator
so either way we have to wait till our death for answers
so even for atheist there is no 100% certainty probability.
so for believers hints are all there in nature , in bible in Christ all pointing to Creator and needs no further r explanation
but for atheist its about Darwin , if you see man yeah his ancestors were apes. God Darwin told them hush!!!
You have all the eloquence and reasoning ability of a mentally retarded crayfish.
Frank, that is an INSULT to crayfish! Take it back this instant.
"when we die there are 2 possibilities"
Really? You have narrowed it down to only two possibilities using what testing method? Last I checked there were hundreds if not thousands of differing beliefs on exactly what happens after death, and not a single one of them can be proven or disproved by any known method. So either you are a liar or a fool so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with fool.
frank,
don't you athiest have some humor or its all about life is meaningless ?why live at all then, huh.?
if Yuo studied matha you should be well aware of probabilty theories.. see we beleivers know more abt maths and science hell i even aced darwin thoery in science class. but even as school kid i thought he was over the top with his theory, a fairy tale.
Crayfish are tasty and provide nourishment. Vic is useless.
"i even aced darwin thoery in science class."
Besides having apparent problems with spelling, it's obvious from this statement that you did not get past at best a 12th grade science education, since I know of no college courses called "science class".
@vic
Just because somebody has convinced you that there's only two possibilities doesn't mean it's logical.. You've been taught a bunch of illogical cr.ap, just so you know.. You're presenting a false dichotomy.. Try again.
you guys do not seem to have grasp of probabilities and weak in logic if you want to latch on typos and petty insults go ahead.
Of course if instead of dual probabilities 1. God exist 2.. God Does not Exist.
you can think of other occurrences or events , you are free to do that.
remember guys Socrates had to die because he had to prove that l his wisdom about existence of soul was true and he was not afraid .
I never cease to be amazed by the arrogance of the ignorant and stupid.
"when we die there are 2 possibilities"
LOL LOL LOL!
2?!? you have a terribly limited imagination. look up Pascal's Wager - and look up the many, many holes in his little theory. he, too, had a limited imagination.
and btw, atheists don't think you go to a "void" when you die. thought ceases at death, so you are unaware of what happens to your body. if anything, atheists believe in a form of reincarnation. the elements in my body (iron, calcium, hydrogen, oxygen, etc.) will go back to the soil. we will be eaten by worms. chilckens will eat those worms. people will eat the chickens. each life form absorbs elements that were once in another life form. that is a truth offered by science. the truth, as always, is much stranger and more interesting than the fiction of the bible.
@vic
But that's not the dilemma you proposed, is it?? You're not even keeping track of what you just wrote..
You implied the following false dichotomy: "nothingness after death" versus "meet face to face with our creator."
Now you say that it's either "god" or "not god.". That's a completely different deal.. What about if we have 3 creators, or what if the creator is a di.ck and we all go to hell, or what if we all just cease to "be," or what if the creator meets every 4,000 person who dies, or maybe only muslims go to heaven, or maybe god greets everyone, and then flips a coin.. You see, the possibilities are endless..
You're trying, though, and that's an encouraging sign.. 🙂
VERY trying.
@Tom, tom
It's like getting an addict back into society; you got to get him off the drugs first, and THEN you help him find a job.. With believers, you've got to get them invested in proper reasoning and argumentation, otherwise they don't even know when their argument has been demonstrated as completely worthless.. They just truck right along with the stupidest idea you've ever heard and they think they're winning over everybody within four counties for the lord.
I always imagine them to be like mules: it does little good to talk to them unless you get their attention. Therefore, it's most efficacious to first smack them with a 2×4.
what is my left nut is God? or maybe my pipe? or perhaps my cell phone is God? or perhaps all the cows in the world are collectively God? or what if it's a God of logic that is testing us separate the morons that go to hell from the people who used the logic he gave us to come up with the conclusion he doesn't exist? what if the Scientologists are right? oh my Xenu! what if we are really living in the matrix? just a computer world? what if we are all living in a sleeping dog's dream? what if... it goes on and on. there are so many possibilities for other cr@p theories that can't be proven, christianity is just one of an infinite number. so your bad logic doesn't work (again, look up holes in Pascal's Wager). it is not a choice between 2 views. it's a choice between an infinite number. perhaps we are living in a tiny universe under a giant's thumbnail? derp...
" a tiny universe under a giant's thumbnail?"
Aye, any guess is as good as the next so the only option I have as a rational being is to stop guessing and continue researching what we can see for more clues to our origins.
Stupid vic.
Gsod, since you keep spewing about your bible and selecing the bits you like from it, note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal. Now there's some "profound wisdom" for you, from your cruel jerk of a god.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Gsod, since you keep spewing about your bible and selectively pulling the bits you like out of it, note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal. Now there's some "profound wisdom" for you, from your cruel jerk of a god.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
tallulah13 wrote on Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 5:49 pm stating, "Gods Oldest Dreamer, Your personal desire for a god is not proof. Your emotional reactions are not proof. Even millions of believers are not proof. There is no verifiable, reliable data that indicates the existence of ANY god. There is no rational reason for anyone to believe in god. There is only emotional need.You make a lot of claims about what your god wants and what your god thinks. They seem to reflect exactly what you want and what you think. Here's the sad reality: Your god didn't create you. You created your god."
1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Can you not see with your mind the profound wisdom in the above verse of scripture? Or is your mind blockaded with the things you were brought up on and cannot climb down from your branched position? We do in all earnestness fortuities lay waste in one's yearnings! I am not God's creator and I will never be! Although we all do labour every moment of one's life it is together with God! It is of Life where we are all labourious with God and not against Him! God is the architect of all Life forms and formations of Life! I cannot believe we are a product of evolutionary divinities! Our bodies are God's buildings and inside these bodies of God's buildings does all of God's people so live! I cannot believe in any other way! I will not! Though the trees of evolutions are still yet God's handiworks, God will forever be the main architect of all Life's seeds! God was the very first of all Life forms and God will be the very last of Life forms' end!
Trying as I must, I will not betray my Faith in God! He is the Creator of the Celstialness and in the places of Terrestrialness God does implant all the seeds of creation! Let me quote you in your writing stating, "You created your god" and such wordage is a bold face lie! All I or anybody can do is establish the means and weights of God's Kingdom Domains! God abounds and God is in all places great and even of the most smallest! I see God in the most tiniest of tiny and of the greatest of great places in size! I can tell you where God is but I cannot tell you how! I can show you God's Kingdom Domains but you among others do turn a blind eye! Alas, I am alone in my mind within this world that is ever moving away from God's truths! Alas the Time is soon coming and although I will not be there when the Time does come, all things will be revealed to everyone who is left upon this Celestial shoreline of Terrestrial giving!
@God's Oldest Dreamer –
You sound a bit mad, my friend.
There is zero wisdom in that verse and your habit of hyperfocusing for days on end on some currently favored bit of out of context biblical claptrap grows tiresome.
Gsod, since you keep spewing about your bible, note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal. Now there's some "profound wisdom" for you, from your cruel jerk of a god.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
johnfrichardson,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.,.,.,.,.,,..
I stand upon my word yesterday and today and will forevermore! I've read most of your "claptrap" inuendoes and you seem to be a person of vanities! The lust you have in your heart is not a worthy construct to hold onto! Seek first the Kingdom Domains of God if you do dare to! But alas, your want to is strong but your will is ever weakened by your bitterness thoughts! I see you in your words and I am not impressed! I see who you fold with here and am not worried! God is a merciful God and He will show you mercies till your dying day's last breath! I know this to be Truth because God has so blessed me with a want to know of His Kingdom Domains! Their whereabouts and their structure! God will bless you too, if you but let Him or His Son Christ Jesus into your body of God's own architecture and design! For your sakedness please bid them to come in!
"I am not impressed."
Goshers. I wonder how any of us will ever recover from such a blow.
Bob
1. I know your folds and their antagonistic revelations! Do you not know we are made of stardust?
2. Do you not know we are constructed of mostly water? How can it be that one's body of mostly water does not spring leaks?
3. Answer me these few questions if you will! A few more questions I will ask! Do you know of or are aware of the Relatives of Fractal Cosmology?
4. Do you know anythingb at all regarding the numerable infinities of innumerable universes within the Great Celestial Cosmos?
5. Or are you but brain dead and think in miniscule abatements that "our universe" is all there is in the grand schemes of things?
6. Can you even fathom the very depths of inner space and see deeply inside our bodies and conclude that we are but merely biological machines?
7. Can you comprehend that our cellular structures are but intelligently designed micro-sized universes?
Um, did I misunderstand your post a day or two ago, or did you say you molested your little brother?
*frank*
Yes,,,,, I was 13 and he was 3,,,,,, I am now paying my dues for my Act! I see his pain almost everyday! I take him to the liquor store for his needs,,,,,,, I am paying my penance to him every day and will so pay it till my dying day,,,,, I told him about 10 or 15 years ago of my sin against him,,,,, He has forgiven me but I know well his hurt and pains! I love him for forgiving me ,,,,, I will spport him and all his needs as I can so afford to,,,,,,, 🙁 🙁 🙁
Yikes.........well, hang in there, buddy.
Kudos on coming up with a response to that, frank. I couldn't think of a thing to say about that revelation, I was so shocked.
I'll say something. It's fucked up. I was right about you. I knew something was wrong with you. If all that was left was soylent green and you were in the ingredients, I'd throw my rations in the trash.
I like turtles.
I Like Pizza!!
I like genuflecting.
I Like Z-jays!!
I like...to be left alone.
atheists are like flatulence. here today, gone tomorrow.
So what this article is trying to get me to do is think why I believe what I believe? I've done that, I understand that God in his infinite wisdom has given us each a chance to repent and believe. I don't disagree that we should all ask the why questions. I think it is healthy, but always understand that you will be drawn to one conclusion. There is something missing that we are always trying to chase and the one thing that stops us dead in our tracks is Jesus.
" I don't disagree that we should all ask the why questions. I think it is healthy, but always understand that you will be drawn to one conclusion." You will only be drawn to one conclusion if you limit your research to one book and only ask questions of those who have a vested interest in that books contents.
@Godpot Zzzzzinnggg!
But why do you believe there actually is a God? Because some book says so?
Yes, but there is a difference between God and other gods. Everything points back to God.
It does? Not for me, it doesn't. If you think you have some magic looking-glass that shows you such a vision, you should definitely replicate it and sell it on e-bay.
" Everything points back to God." if you want it to. But then again, you can believe you will be the embodiment of He-Man with wings punching demons on the border of heaven and heII after you die, if you want to...
Just FYI, god doesn't exist. So your theory has a huge fucking hole in it.
Geewizz
What's the difference really? God is really popular now and other gods aren't? That's not any real difference at all, is it?
the-crucible.weebly.com
Be more.
Prayer changes things .
Google First Scandal.
That's a really useless blog and particularly annoying since you act like a bashful schoolgirl too afraid to simply STATE your thesis, which appears to be nothing remarkable. Most people blithely assume the the "original sin" was something s-exual and since religious nutters are particularly aghast over any and all forms of non-procreative s-ex, hey, big whoop that you find "original sin" there.
It's all stupid, of course. S-ex organs that shoot semen through the same channel that urine flows through is a biological trait that goes WAAAAY back in our evolutionary family tree and which can be seen in all sorts of beasties. It's laughable that you would find this arrangement to be evidence of the banishment of humans from Eden. All the mammals there were already so equipped!