April 27th, 2012
04:01 PM ET
Study: Analytic thinking can decrease religious belief
By Becky Perlow, CNN
(CNN) - When was the last time you sat down and questioned your decision to believe in God?
According to a new study, that simple act could decrease your religious conviction – even if you’re a devout believer.
In the study, published Friday in the journal Science, researchers from Canada’s University of British Columbia used subtle stimuli to encourage analytical thinking. Results from the study found that analytical thinking could decrease religious belief.
“Religious belief is intuitive - and analytical thinking can undermine intuitive thinking,” said Ara Norenzayan, co-author of the study. “So when people are encouraged to think analytically, it can block intuitive thinking.”
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Some of the more than 650 Canadian and American participants in the study were shown images of artwork that encouraged analytic thinking, while another group was shown images that were not intended to produce such thinking.
One of the images used to trigger analytic thinking was of Rodin’s statue “The Thinker.” A previous study showed that such images improved performance on tests that indicate analytic thinking.
In addition to the artwork images, the religion study used other stimuli to promote analytical thinking.
After exposure to such stimuli, researchers gauged participants’ religious beliefs through a series of questions. Subjects who had performed analytical tasks were more likely to experience a decrease in religious belief than those who were not involved in such tasks. That included devout believers.
“There’s much more instability to religious belief than we recognize,” said Norenzayan, noting that life’s circumstances and experiences, from traumatic events to joyous occasions, can lead people to become more or less religious.
“Religion is such an important part of the world and we have so little understanding of it,” he added. “So regardless of what you think about religion, it’s important to understand it because it’s so important in the world.”
Norenzayan is quick to mention that the experiments did not turn devout believers into total atheists. But he speculated that if people habitually think analytically, like scientists or lawyers do, it would lead to less religious belief in the long run.
Robert McCauley, director of the Center for Mind, Brain and Culture at Emory University, and author of "Why religion is natural and science is not," found the study particularly interesting because he thought it was difficult to make even a minimal change in religious belief.
“It’s not likely you would argue someone out of a religious belief very often because they don’t hold those beliefs on argumentative or reflective grounds in the first place,” said McCauley, who believes religious beliefs rely primarily on intuitive thinking.
Analytical thinking alone does not necessarily lead to a decrease in religious belief, emphasized Norenzayan.
“There’s a combination of factors [as to] why people become believers or nonbelievers - this is only one piece of the puzzle,” Norenzayan said, explaining that his team doesn’t think analytical thinking is superior to intuitive thinking.
“It makes the story we need to tell about religion and religious belief all the more complicated,” said McCauley. “That’s what great scientific research does – ask more interesting questions.”
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
Few 100% true Reasons why Atheism is TERRIBLE and unhealthy for our children and living things:
† Atheism is a religion that makes you stupid, ignorant & blind.
† Atheism is a disease that needs to be treated.
† Atheism makes you post stupid things (90% of silly comments here on CNN blogs are posted by closet Atheists)
† Atheist are satanic and have gothic lifestyle.
† Atheists causes problem in our religious society.
† Atheists are mentally ill, that's why they have no faith.
† Atheism won't take you to kingdom of heaven and paradise.
† Atheism making you agree with Stalin, Hitler (Denied his faith later), Mao, Pol Pot & other terrible mass murder leaders.
† No traditional family lifestyle, no holidays, no culture, boring and feeling 'outsider'
† Atheists are angry, drug additcted and committ the most crime.
† Atheist try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet.
† Atheists do not really exist, they just pretend that they don't believe in God and argue with religious people.
† Atheists have had terrible life experience, bad childhood and not being loved.
† Most Atheists are uneducated... No Atheists could run for presidency.
† Atheism brought upon the French Revolution, one of the most evil events of all of history.
† Atheism cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.
† All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.
† The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right (see: Genesis 1:1, Psalms 14:1, Psalms 19:1, Romans 1:19-20)
† Countries where Atheism is prevalent has the highest Suicide rate & Communist countries = Atheism!
**Only 2-3% of the U.S. are Atheists/Agnostics VS. over 90% who believe in God (80% Christians) in the U.S.**
† † Our Prayers goes to Atheists to be mentally healthy and seek their creator † †
ATHEISTS WILL BURN IN HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE WHERE THEY BELONG
It would be kind of funny if you didn't actual believe your drivel. You start out by stating that this stuff is 100% true and then fail to get even one point anywhere close. If I was back grading papers I would have to give you an "F" for F-fert, as in Full of fertilizer.
"Atheists are uneducated", says the Rhodes Scholar who posts "Atheists causes problem in our religious society" and the brilliant diagnosis that atheists are "drug additcted". And this gem: "Atheist try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet." Behind closet? And of course, who can ignore this one: "Atheism brought upon the French Revolution, one of the most evil events of all of history."
I like how WWJD tries to use threats of eternal suffering in an attempt to scare Atheists. He can offer no proof of any "god", or of any "hell", so his threats are empty. So who is worse, the Atheist who quietly lives his life, goes to work, comes home ... or the religious nut-job who is told by his pastor that he MUST spread "the word" and has to bring in more "souls" to their way of life, even if it's by coersion or outward threats?
How can Atheists have a "satanic" lifestyle when we don't believe in "satan"?
WWJD = just sayin = Heaven Sent = Mark from Middle River = lots of others
"Atheist try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet."
You do realize what you are admitting to here right? You are admitting the fact that atheists shouldn't feel safe in public, just like gays shouldn't feel safe either, because you never know when one of "Gods" servants is going to carry out the execution order blaring in their religion soaked psychotic brain and start shooting.
Most atheist ARE drug addicts, period. This is well known.
Well known? Then you can show the figures that prove it. Do so.
"He can offer no proof of any "god", or of any "hell", so his threats are empty."
Unfortunately, his threats are not completely empty as Christians and many religions have a long history of murdering unbelievers, it's just the threats of what his Big brother God is gonna do to us after death that are empty.
"Most atheist ARE drug addicts, period. This is well known."
I'm certainly not, but I might try whatever WWJD must be smoking, it must be damn strong...
Oh, and by the way WWJD, it is also "well known" that Christianity shrinks testicles and causes long term memory loss, someday soon you'll be sitting their playing with your shriveled raisin like balls and wonder "What are these?"...
I threaten no one. Jesus will judge you and sentence you to hell for all of your hate.
What'll he do to you for yours, WWJD?
I'm waiting for WWJD's studies that prove Atheists are drug addicts, how we are satanic, even though we don't beleive in satan, and as far as crime goes, look at the legitimate surveys done on prisoners. Why do the VAST majority of convicts claim christianity as their faith? Seems to me that christians commit the most crime.
Your hatred, WWDumbbell.
† Atheists turned me into a newt! †
† I got better †
read and learn
Read and learn, yourself. And take that lap-dog, Mark, with you.
I have seen quite a few goths walking around. It's amazing how many of them wear crosses. What does that tell you? You certainly won't find Atheists wearing crosses.
Atheist are afraid of God and the Bible. They fear the Cross and that is why they are afraid to wear them.
I fear no "god" and I laugh at the stories in your book of fairy tales. You think vampires and ghosts are REAL, don't you? The only jewelry I have ever worn has been a wedding ring. I don't wear a cross simply because I don't believe in any god, or your dead zombie guy jesus. Oh, and zombies don't exist either.
"Atheist are afraid of God and the Bible." Your claim is factually impossible. If a person is a true atheist, then by definition they cannot be in fear of something they do not believe in. That would be like claiming Christians fear Zeus whenever they hear thunder...
I don't fear any god, but I do fear believers who feel that their god has given them license to hurt people. Your tone suggests that you are fantasizing about people suffering, and I think that the folks over in the FBI who profile serial killers might be interested in starting a file on you, if they haven't already, that is.
And they are also gays.
Atheists will burn in hell where they belong. I will look down at them with a smile from Heaven while dancing on streets of gold.
You belong in the WWF, WWJD. LOL
Wow, I am an atheist and I can't think of an situation I would want to watch anyone be tortured. You must live with a lot of anger. I feel sad for you and for those you choose to abuse and hate.
@Note to atheists re: your anger mgt prob: I would like to see a scientific survey done on the militant atheist community to check for Asperger Syndrome. They say it's common in the IT professional community, scientists, etc. A type of autism, the victim is generally high IQ, good at math and hard science, but has trouble communicating with others. Often rude and unable to empathize or understand or care how the other person might feel after being insulted.
The results might be quite revealing.
Why don't you fund one then?
The results of this study.. What effect do you think it would have on the logical arguments both for and against the existence of god?? Because it looks like you're just slinging mud because you have nothing better to do, which means you suck at having any clue about even why you really believe in god.
They say Einstein likely had Aspergers Syndrome. I'd call that good company to be in. Tell me, are you actually saying something bad about these folks?
Why do you interpret a diagnosis of Asperger as "slinging mud"? One would think that diagnosis would be preferable to the alternative of being just plain rude when you dont have to be.
"When you don't have to be"? When do you have to be rude, b4?
Really? b4just sayin et al is casting aspersions on the sanity of the people who use logic and support their arguments with evidence?
Talk about the LAST person who should be pointing fingers about inadequate sanity! b4MultiplePersonalities is easily the most sanity challenged poster here . . . and that is quite an accomplishment!
Because you're not doing anything at all with YOUR argument.. Who cares? What's your point? That atheists aren't as nice as you want them to be? What is your endgame? You've made a bunch of stupid, silly statements tonight and you just walk away as soon as you realize it was stupid as all get out and go on to make another stupid statement.. Do you really think you're honoring christ with any of this?
"I proposed three reasons why most people believe in God, and how persons with Asperger’s syndrome may be cognitively or socially different from the general population in a manner that detracts from religious beliefs and behaviors. The implication of this is that those with Asperger’s will be more likely to be atheists or agnostics. But is there empirical evidence for this? Colleagues and I reported preliminary evidence at the Cognitive Science Society this summer. We analyzed self-reports of religious beliefs that appeared in postings on the wrongplanet.net website, where many individuals self-identify as having Asperger’s syndrome. These were compared with postings on a discussion board for religious discussions on websites that were not specifically designed for those on the autistic spectrum. Individuals who self-identified as having an autistic spectrum disorder (usually Asperger’s syndrome) were only half as likely to identify as Christian or Jewish, and were twice as likely to identify as an atheist or agnostic. In addition, individuals with Asperger’s syndrome were more likely to say they had constructed their own religious system. We followed up this content-analysis with a more conventional survey about beliefs and religion, which found a similar result."
You may be right, but why it occurs might surprise you. 🙂
b4, why don't you stop posting new crap and start answering some questions posed to you, like the one Cq asked you? Or are you such a dishonest sh!t you will do anything to avoid actually coming up with a fact once in a while?
"Often rude and unable to empathize or understand or care how the other person might feel after being insulted."
"Excuse me Emperor, but did you not know you were naked?"
"Off with his head!!"
Good Grief, I forgot about Asperger’s syndrome. It does explain a great many of TomTom's post. I didn't think it was just her old age going.
This is you attempting to demonstrate for all the 'better way' you babble about incessantly, right?
The real issue is that you don't like it that I've called you out for what you are.
I'm calling you out right now, you liar. You've claimed several times tonight that I've been "backed into a corner" in an argument. Explain what corner you're talking about. Go ahead, Mark the Peacemaker.
If Mark and b4 are examples of Christianity, I'll take atheism any day.
Then try to be a better Atheist TomTom.
Don't feed the Mark troll with that sort of thing. He just smears it all over his face and gurgles. And piddles on the floor as well.
Funny, the one that came in to pick a fight is calling others trolls.
Will you two just get a room already?
Mark from Middle River
Usually I enjoy discussing things with you Mark, but I have to admit that your att.itude towards people with autism is very heartless and mean-spirited. Are these really your true colors shining through?
however, I don't feel I have any right to supercede any person's right/freedom to believe in whom/whatever, nor not believe at all.
I don't like people who say you deserve hell for not believing, or believing differently than they.
I don't like people who hate others for believing they have a soul and are compelled to love, along with the faith in a supernatural source of all we see, and don't see-but are starting to be able to guess-what's out there & how it all began.
Everyone has their own right and free-will; however, it appears that a religious person will only allow others to have religion, and an atheist will not allow others to have any.
Nobody is being forced to debate here.. And honestly, quite a few are just now learning how it's spelt–we'll start going over what the word means next week, with those lot.. But people feel strongly and wish to communicate that by coming to places like this.. If somebody doesn't like it, they can always turn it off.
Oh, and there's plenty of message boards full of christians that are mean and unfair to atheists as well as the other way around.. People like to argue.
Oh you can have your religion, but just don't cry blasphemy when someone criticizes your beliefs. We are free to say that we don't believe in what others do, and to express why we don't in this country, right?
yes, there are other forums where the mob's on the side of religion, and 'hate' could clearly be their most remarkable attribute.
I suppose that's why God made CNN & Foxnews.
The philosophy to which you subscribe is called secularism.
momoya: "Seriously? Darwin? Evolution? Why don't we skip it this next hundred pages or so?? It's proven fact, you guys can't even figure out how to open the book, and if anybody actually sticks around for the conclusion, it winds up being two whacked out nutjob christians who don't care what all the evidence says god's magic spell makes all the difference even though it doesn't seem to have left any trace at all of making any difference and on and on.. And really, if you want to "disbelieve" evolution, we want you dipsh!ts speaking up loudly and clearly to let us know where your at so we know to stay a good distance away.. You disbelieve something that you haven't even the first idea about, don't you realize how stupid that makes you look?"
See, there you go again with the atheist fallacy that science has knocked faith in the head dead, and *I* say not so fast, read my last post more closely. You see, all someone has to do is mention Darwin or science in general and the atheist response is to pronounce faith dead or on its last legs, when in reality you guys are a tiny minority.
Again, many scientists are believers, and even of the ones who aren't, the majority of them have no rant to make, no problem at all with their believing colleages.
What evidence do you have of that last statement, bfart? How do you know what any scientists think or do?
You fvcking moron.. I never said that "science has knocked faith dead in the head" or any such nonsense.. In fact, you liar, I've said the opposite.. Oops, for you!
"See, there you go again with the atheist fallacy that science has knocked faith in the head dead, and *I* say not so fast, "
That is how Christians operate. When they make a claim they think cannot be proven false like when they claimed the world was flat or that the earth is only 6000 years old, after science proves them wrong they say "not so fast, we didn't really think the earth was flat, and we didn't really think it was 6000 years old, that was just a metaphor, the rest of the bible is spot on though, you just have to trust us as to whats real and whats allegory, which we will tell you only when science proves something in the bible inaccurate..."
In the national academy of sciences 72.2% disbelieve in God and 20.8% have doubt or agnosticism.
What figures do you have?
I wonder how long b4 will dawdle and delay before answering, if he doesn't simply ignore the challenge because he can't meet it.
Gee, look at that. b4 can't or won't answer. As usual, he can't produce any facts to back up the idiotic statements he makes.
"to see that an atheist is a hateful creature."
This is WRONG.
atheists are NOT creatures!
That implies they were CREATED !
atheists don't BELIEVE in God !
Quick!! Call the hospital!! That wasn't tequila, it was BLEACH!!
ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS AND THINKERS: Part VI, a summary:
Based on Parts I-V: See pp. 2, 14, 22, 23, 23
Putting the final kibosh on religion:
• There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell. )
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
That must've hurt something awful.
it's interesting how your conscious hatred's making your subconscious bathe in anger to such a degree that you're no longer behaving like a civilized human being, let-alone a sane creature. This 'discussion' has been very enlightening. We understand where you're coming from, now.
Apparently, when you claim you don't have a soul, and offer only hatred to people who believe differently than you, it makes you feel 'better.' My friends, your 'better' is the best we human beings will expect from you. Don't ever change, you wacky atheists!
Why didn't you focus on the atheists here who were mostly polite and state your case clearly.. Did you try that? If you did, I'd like to read it.. If you didn't, now's your chance.. Look back over my posts and you'll see I will give you a fair shake.. Let's have your most rational argument..
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
I see you are very angry at the atheists and the premise of this article...
@Note to atheists re: your anger mgt prob: I wish someone would do a scientific survey on the militant atheist community to check for Asperger Syndrome. They say it's common in the IT professional community, scientists, etc. A type of autism, the victim is generally high IQ, good at math and hard science, but has trouble communicating with others. Often rude and unable to empathize or understand or care how the other person might feel after being insulted.
The results might be quite revealing.
Would those results have any bearing on the arguments and logic for and against the concept of "god?"
it's a gaggle of atheist ducks nesting in another social forum
Oh look, cute.. Lemme guess.. You're on the side without any logic, I take it?
The only thing voicing hatred is you, "If water rolls off of it's back & it quacks with hatred". You must be a christian.
I see I hit too close to home for some tender fool. Too bad, so sad...
to see that an atheist is a hateful creature.
Do you know why that's an incredibly stupid statement to make, even if it were true? 😉
I don't know about the root statement, but it's quite obvious that the person who made it is a malicious liar.
for more than a few minutes to know it's full of shlt.
which came 1st
Since atheism seems to be a fairly recent thing I'd have to say the A$$h0les were around first, and are still going strong, if your post is any indication. 🙂
The correct order is:
Of course it's perfectly possible for atheists to exist whose ancestors never evolved rectums on a different planet.
I think it's fairly obvious that many Christians must not have rectums, every time they open their mouths they reveal how full of shlt they have become from their mental constipation.
Well, at least we have a means of expelling all that nasty waste, instead of letting it just pile up inside like the others.
There are many ways that a body can rid itself of its wastes..
I think if they all got enemas we'd be having mass graves filled with matchbox-sized caskets to deal with in some Hitchensesque future or other.
apparently you were first, and still putting out your $h!t. How's the constipation?
George Burns: "@Tom /agree: 30 years in the church defending the indefensible before I opened my eyes and started actually seeking truth which requires being exposed to more literature than just the bible. Faith cannot withstand the calm determination of truth when battled with reason, which is why those who think analytically often leave their childish belief of Santa, the Easter Bunny and eventually Jesus behind."
30 years in church and no literature but the Bible??! I learned how to read from non-religious books about dinosaurs, etc before the age of 6, then read a lot in school and then college.
Your glittering generalities didnt reveal the details of how you were deprived of all literature but the Bible.
Were you held prisoner all those years in the basement of some cult like the Moonies?
It took 30 years before I could decided to look for "truth" in books other than the bible which I had been raised on as THE truth, the word of God and not to be doubted. Of course I read many books as a child and as I grew up, but I was not looking to any of them for real truth or understanding, why would I when I was convinced I already knew where I came from, who I was and where I was going. And yes it is sad that it took me 30 years, but better late than never.
Poor b4. He's projecting again. I guess that's what he was doing when he said I was gay.
Another evidence that science doesnt have the capability to discredit the Bible is the fact that Darwin's theories have been published since the late 1800s, and followed up for years at considerable expense by a lot of more modern scientists in fields such as genetics, paleontology, etc – and over 100 years later we have many many believers, many of them highly-educated and familiar with Darwin's theories, all over the developed world.
Lots of people believe in aliens, a second shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas, and think the moon landing was faked.
Idiots abound. You're living proof.
You, bigfart, are so delusional that you believe I'm gay, in spite of evidence to the contrary.
A lot of people are stupid, ignorant, and gullible. You should know; you're one of them.
Seriously? Darwin? Evolution? Why don't we skip it this next hundred pages or so?? It's proven fact, you guys can't even figure out how to open the book, and if anybody actually sticks around for the conclusion, it winds up being two whacked out nutjob christians who don't care what all the evidence says god's magic spell makes all the difference even though it doesn't seem to have left any trace at all of making any difference and on and on.. And really, if you want to "disbelieve" evolution, we want you dipsh!ts speaking up loudly and clearly to let us know where your at so we know to stay a good distance away.. You disbelieve something that you haven't even the first idea about, don't you realize how stupid that makes you look?
@Tom: you've denied being g a y, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was someone posting under your alias.
So, if memory serves me correct, you (I'm assuming the 'real' you) said on a previous post that you're a married woman in your mid 50s, correct?
If so, then may I point out that for a 50 yr-old married lady, well, you aint no lady. Really, I dont know ANY 50 yr old ladies who go around saying "I dont give a ripe shlt", casually throwing out f-bombs, and other garbage-mouthed things we associate with drunken sailors.
Wait a minute.....drunken, that could explain it.
Drink and post much Tom?
When did I ever claim I was a "lady"? You must be a very delicate flower to be so upset by my language.
If you disapprove of my posts, ignore them. I notice you've been unable to do so, since they generally blow your nonsensical vomit out of the water. That's your problem, not mine.
I think what really bothers you, b4, is that you don't have a leg to stand on, and you resent it when a woman tells you you're full of sh!t. Too bad for you. This isn't the 19th century, dearie, and you aren't in charge.
Actually she said she was in her mid 60s in one thread. She has got to be the oldest person I have heard say "blow me". Then again she might be related to Red Foxx.
Another genius burps. I've never said anything of the sort, Piddler.
It cracks me up that you little boys are so upset when a woman tells you your dick is ugly.
By the way, Piddler, did you ever figure out whom I was addressing in the post that gave you such palpitations?
YOu know, for folks who claim to not like Tom's posting style you guys sure spend a lot of time criticizing that only continues the bullsh!t.. If you don't like Tom, ignore him and go on with your elegant argument.. Then again, if you don't have a real argument, you might just as well spend time debating Tom's posting morality as presenting some lame idea that ain't gonna pan out for you or your god anyway.. Don't b!tch, do something.
Nope when you said Blow Me .. I imagined Angela Landsbury saying it or one of the Golden Girls.
.... well except for Rose, I can't imagine you being like her. Maybe Dorothy. Are you a Dorothy Zbornak?
@Mark from middle river: If it's not a substance problem, she might have dementia, that would explain it.
But another explanation of course is that 'she' is actually a young Butthead type.
It's pretty funny to watch the two boneheads discussing me. I guess I must really bother them, or they'd busy themselves with something more substantive, like proving their claims about god.
That they can't is likely the reason they choose to focus on me.
I notice Piddles hasn't yet figured out that the post he found so bothersome was addressed to a poster he's abused in the past.
Hypocritical, to say the least.
Oh wow.. What great arguments.. I'm nearly convinced.. Great use of your time.. God will reward you well, I think,
It is supposed to be a belief bog , so believers could get together and discourse but apparently there is herd of atheist here . Suggestion to CNN have a atheist bog before they complain of discrimination
Atheist fail to realize that nature of science is open ended it examines all possibilities it is not hot headed, and closed like the atheist here . .In science theories often get discarded too. Einstein postulated far more accurate theory on gravity than Newton
Oh, please.. You wouldn't be saying that if your conversion efforts here were successful.. The really nifty think about fact is that it can stand up to any criticism.
Monoya,, even a passive viewer will realize most of the vituperative insults, even threats were from herd of atheist here . Had nothing much to offer except the fact God does not exist which is not a surprise coming from atheist
Actually, this blog is open to all comers. I'm sorry if the words of people who don't agree with you offends you, but that's the price you pay for living in a nation where we are guaranteed free speech.
Well, you could have risen above it all and chosen exactly which arguments to present that would demonstrate the rationality of your position.. You don't have to reply to every post here–ignore them.. It's pretty easy, actually.. Let's say you start over and present a logical argument for what you intend to demonstrate and I promise to be very cordial and patient.. What do you say?
Good point vic!
"Atheist fail to realize that nature of science is open ended it examines all possibilities it is not hot headed, and closed like the atheist here"
So you are mad at atheists for not being open minded enough to consider your theistic position of knowing exactly how everything happened, why we are here and where we are going for a "fact" based solely on hundreds of differing interpretations of forty ancient writers that was cobbled together by ex-roman priests who converted to Christianity when Constantine had his vision and won a battle in 312 AD? We aren't being open minded enough? Really?
Same deal to you b4.. You got anything to bring or is it just more yougottabelievetobelieve incantations?
Oh, the little dweeb's much too busy lecturing me on ladylike behavior to respond to something so challenging. He'd rather hit the easy ones out of the park than actually employ those two brain cells rattling around his skull.
Well Vic, there are Atheist that can discuss things and seek tolerance and understanding. The ones such as TomTom though, when backed into a corner, have only swear words in their bags. In some ways I am glad she is hear because if the Belief Blog were just a Faithful only board then it would get borning fast.
Basically it can be fun to beat up on folks like TomTom. Its the only way you can get the chance to smack a elder around a bit. 🙂
If the science could be provided that supports Christian claims we'd have no other choice, as rational people, but to accept it. It is the religious, however, who choose to deny whatever science they find troublesome. That, my friend, is being close minded.
Gee, the genius of the community college speaks. "I'm glad she is hear."
Mark, I may be old, but you're stupid.
Don't you work with patients in a nursing home, Piddles? Do they know how you really feel about them? That you like the idea of smacking them around?
What a good example of Christian forbearance you put forth.
Well then why don't you pull on your big boy panties and show us a better way, Mark?. You feel your time is best spent discussing what you feel to be irrational behavior?? Really?? If you're going to just talk about behavior you find irrational, why don't we talk about Mormons, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or Christi....oh... I see.
Mark from Middle River
You're right, the Faith boards really are boring. I was reading a "discussion" about evolution on one yesterday and it basically amounted to something like:
"Boy, those Darwinists don't have a case"
"Yesiree, no case at all."
"Gee, aren't they silly."
"Praise the Lord!"
>>>"Really?? If you're going to just talk about behavior you find irrational, why don't we talk about Mormons, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or Christi....oh... I see."
Momo, I never said that any group owned rational completely but you got to admit that coming here and swearing at everyone that backs you into a debate corner is a waste of resources.
TomTom.... well I deal with all ages but from when the young teen deficates on him or herself all the way to a elder such as you ... I just call them a "TomTom" and go on 🙂
LOL, did you see that Christard on here yesterday from Carm who was bragging about all the debates he's won on all these different topics.. Hilarious!
You'll have to at least make a little fvcking sense for me to even know what the hell you're talking about.. Slow down and think for a minute, and come back and try it again.. It's okay.. We all need a little breather now and again..
Yep Cq, .... discussions on Faith Boards where Faiths are in the majorities are beyond boring.... that is until someone disagrees on a Scripture and why one interpretation is better than others. Then it can get nasty.
Like I said, there have been Atheist that I would rather drive cross country with compared to some Faithful.
How Christian of you, Piddles. I'm truly convinced that there "is a better way", as you blurt repeatedly, all the while engaging in your slimy, nasty behavior.
Seriously, is there anybody here who has the slightest fvcking clue what Mark is blathering about?!?!?!?!? Because I'll be honest, I could make more rational sense from the sound of steak knives running through a cement mixer..
Does anyone ever? His posts are almost as unintelligible as those of God's Oldest Dreamer.
vic, a bog? You're a fucking idiot.
Interesting that calls for peace and tolerance ... and you both are clueless to the concept.
Oh, please. Could you be more disingenuous, Piddles?
Mark, quit complaining about other peopple and just say something a tiny bit interesting for a change.. Seriously, half the time your sh!t reads like you were in a seizure and just let your hands flop around on the keyboard and just posted it anyway.. Knock it off.. Act like a decent human being.
Momo, if you are a judge to what is and what is not a human being then I am glad that I do not have to hold to your standards.
But, it is interesting that you do not speak out against TomTom's incohernt rants but against those that have backed her into a corner. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your views on TomTom.
Right now you have a friend in a Mel Gibson impersonator.
Piddles, you have burbled that I've been "backed into a corner" multiple times. Why don't you tell me just what corner you think I've been "backed into"?
TomTom the corner is when someone disagrees with you in a peaceful and respectful way. You can not handle it. Maybe you were brought up in that Howard Stern, Morton Downey Jr/ Jerry Springer welfare moms fighting over baby daddies...
But, when you come up short in dialouge to disagree you always go back to insults. Truthfully, I think its hillarious because once you go off into a tangent you just broadcast that you have nothing left in your tank. The corner for you is that you can't debate or hold dialouge with those that disagree with you.
.... your poor husband. Should I say a prayer for him tonight or just wait until church service in the morning?
You have not been able to answer the question. In what argument have I been backed into a corner? In what discussion have I been shown to be incorrect? Go ahead, Mark, you made the claim. Show the proof.
Where have I "come up short in the dialogue", Mark? What statements have I made about faith, belief, evolution, science, or anything else that were false?
Move it, Mark. You don't get to re-define being "backed into a corner" as being involved in a disagreement with an opponent who is respectful. Being backed into a corner or coming up short in a dialogue mean something quite different than that.
But you're such a dishonest, underhanded troll that I have no doubt you'll make a lame attempt to weasel out of an answer. You always do. And then you proceed to play the martyr who just wants us all to "get along" in a "better way".
@Tom – I think Mark is referring to when you head to bed and stop posting and he continues to make moronic comments and when he doesn't get a response he claims victory. I have seen several of his incarnations post how he had "run off -insert GodPot, momoya, Tom, etc...- " when I checked back a few days after the discussion, like he waited till he knew we were gone then jumped in to claim some victory after the combatants had left the field.
TomTom.... You are multiple posting again. Get all of your thoughts together in your head or on another doc and then enter them in one post.
Right now it looks like you are searching for words to just lash out. This is what I am speaking of... You can throw haymakers but none of them are landing ma'am.
Oh, I think you should pray with all your strength immediately and do continuous prayer throughout the night.
Tom's Immortal Soul™ would almost certainly be blessed by God's Holy Grace were you to do such a wonderfully Christlike thing, Mark.
Yes, I encourage you to pray. Pray as hard as you can for as long as you can. And fasting helps too, especially if Tom is suffering from Epileptic fits near any campfires. Jesus said so. It's all right there in the Holy Bible, Mark.
In fact, you should have prayed for the answers to all your questions and not bothered asking them here where all of us bad old atheists would only mock you for your pains.
No, you should definitely pray all night. I can hear God's Majestic Mumbly Voice™ telling me to tell you these worshipful helpful hints to you as a way of showing you how God can work even through a lowly atheist like me.
Go and pray. Don't worry, everything is in God's Hands™ and His Mighty Will™ will be done on Earth (not above or below) as it is in Heaven™ and your prayers will give you all the answers God thinks you need to all your questions and prayers.
Why ask questions of Tom? Why do you deny your God in this way? Don't you think you'll get in trouble for not relying upon His Mighty Will™ ? Maybe you should pray for yourself as well then.
(What do you think, Tom? Too many ™s ?)
GodPot. Can you show me where I claimed victory as such. I am a discussion hound and I want discussions to go on until both sides find that screaming at each other does not solve anything and then maybe begin to find another way towards peace.
I am interested in seeing examples though.
I don't doubt it. He's been outed by momoya numerous times for his dishonesty and cowardice. So I'm going to bed and we'll see if the little rat comes out of his hidey-hole to dance and hoot.
Oh, look. The little mouse showed up, and guess what? He hasn't answered the challenge! Is anyone surprised? Mark can't find anything that shows I've been "backed into a corner" or have "come up short in a dialogue". He'll keep stalling and prevaricating and then just slink off after laying some turd of a remark on the table.
He does it all the time.
Oh, and Jeanine, not too many tms. Just right.
I see you have a pretty good idea about Mark's character and modus operandi.
Jeanine. Great post but I am not a Priest or a Rabbi or a Iman. I am just another poor soul making his way through life. I am not here to convert Atheist into believers. I am here because I came to the point that the rhetoric on both sides, were beginning to sound familiar. The extremist on both sides, they are what I want to challenge. TomTom's immortal soul is between TomTom and the almighty. Countering vitriol such as hers and others on the Faithful side and Atheist, is what I enjoy spending my time posting on the Belief Blog.
See there is this “blessed be the Peacemakers...” thing that I fall short on but am trying to achieve.
"Blah, blah, blah...I'm just a poooooooor sooooouul"
What a crock.
Thanks for proving me right, yet again.
>>>"Why don't you tell me just what corner you think I've been "backed into"?"
...at 2:06 am I answered and because I hit on target at 2:08am you ranted that I did not.
Do not worry, I didn't expect another responce.
>>>""Blah, blah, blah...I'm just a poooooooor sooooouul"
Wanna see my TurboTax returns ... 🙂
It's rather hard to miss, actually. I come here at odd times and have noticed exactly what Godpot referred to more than once.
It is a simplistic and quickly grasped tactic for the emotionally immature trolls to latch onto.
That is, they quickly discover for themselves that this cheap childish tactic makes them feel safe and also gives them a feeling of false superiority. Mark is not the only one on the internet doing this thing in the comment sections.
And I have spoken to him before. He resembles Lycidas in some of his aversive techniques, but rarely has the resources to follow through as smoothly as Lycidas/uncouth/karanisswhateverthatwasheused.
I imagine Mark is one of those people hunched over a tiny screen stupidly getting eyestrain in some dark corner, ignoring life all around him as he seeks to reassure himself of his superiority and gain "points" within his own mind every time he can convince himself that they exist.
>>>"I imagine Mark is one of those people hunched over a tiny screen stupidly getting eyestrain"
See....poor soul... Well it is a 19inch screen. 🙂
Jeannie, I do not post ot score points. This is not a popularity contest and if I am the only one standing and searching for peace and tolerance then I feel totally good about all my post. The question to you is, what is your view of how we go forward as a society when issues, both inside the discussions of Faith and outside of the same discussions, have become so polarizing? Are we just to let those on the extremes of Faith and Atheism continue to pull us apart or can there be a middle ground between the Faithful and those of Non-Faith?
What happens when insults do not work anymore?
How ironic that you express the same motivations as Muneef in coming here. Muneef is, according to him, a Muslim in Yemen and felt much the way you do, Mark, and felt a yearning to come here and be dishonest and slippery in the name of some personally "honorable" goal expressed dishonorably without feeling shame and seeing none of his obvious hypocrisy and irrationality or ignorance of underlying facts.
But, hark! What is that I hear?
It is God™'s Holy Mumbling Voice™ telling me to tell you (why can't he just tell you direct are you deaf to his words or something?) that you are equal to everyone in His Infinitely-Numbered Eyes™ and that you do not need to be a priest to pray since Jesus Himself™ lives within your Heart™ and thus you have a Personal Relationship™ with God™ and can avoid any long-distance charges by dialing direct.
Seriously, you think that because you don't have a certificate from some religious college that you are not allowed to pray without ceasing all night long? You've got Jesus Himself™ right there with you! Talk to him, find out what he needs, find out what he wants, find out what he sort of wants and maybe needs and feels like maybe telling you but not right now.
Find out these things. Ask him what to do. Ask him anything at all. Talk to the fvcker, Mark. He's your only hope of becoming equal to the Jews™ in Heaven™ since you are not born with Semitic Jewness™ and can only beg on your knees for God™'s forgiveness that you are not only a Born Sinner™ but also not one of His Chosen People™.
Down on your knees, you Wretch™! Beg forgiveness for not being born otherwise than you were! God™ is getting angry!
Muneef is a interesting person. I have tangled with him before with a few of his views.
Your preaching style is interesting as well. You sound like a pastor that I heard back in the early 90s. I am sure there are some denominations that pray endlessly. Also you might want to check out John Edwards "Hand of an Angry God". There are those Christians who would really understand your type of sermonizing. My denomination does not hold that view of God.
>>>”He's your only hope of becoming equal to the Jews”
Sorry, I am a Christian who believes that Heaven will have Jews, Muslims, even Sheiks along with Christians because it might all be the same God. So, I do not understand this “equal to the Jews”.
Can you explain?
I refer you to your Holy Bible™ which you clearly do not give a rat's ass about nor are you apparently willing to read it.
If you want to learn, you have to seek.
In terms of your religious "education" I hardly think I, a militant extremist atheist (poke poke), should be relied upon by a Christard™ like yourself for edification in the doctrines you cling to in your willful ignorance.
I mean, really. You are not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed here, Mark, in seeking religious guidance from an atheist like me.
Did it hurt when you were dropped on your head as a baby or can't you remember any of that?
You have my sympathy and condolences for the lost opportunities caused by your lack of wit. Perhaps someday you will experience a Wonderful Miracle Of God's Holy Grace™ and suddenly get a fvcking clue.
>>>”I refer you to your Holy Bible™ which you clearly do not give a rat's ass about nor are you apparently willing to read it.”
Well, since we all know there are different interpretations of the scripture why would you wish to shackle me with the style of worship and interpretations of only one of them? Again, like I said, only those on the extremes on all sides choose to not see that the Faithful are diverse.
>>>”If you want to learn, you have to seek”
...and if I seek and do not come up with the same conclusions and views is that ok?
>>>”I mean, really. You are not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed here, Mark, in seeking religious guidance from an atheist like me.”
I am no seeking religious guidance from you, just interested in your interpretation of the scriptures and how they differ from others in the Christian Faith. That's all.
I have more than a clue but still searching for the way to get to the Middle Ground and drag as many like you and the militant of the Faithful kicking and screaming into it. 🙂
In other words Jeanine... dig in kid.
I hold the middle ground, Mark.
And I can point it out to you anytime.
The fact that I am here and you are not doesn't bother you because you are lazy and dumb and delusional.
Aren't you mad about it, though? Oh, yes, actually...you are. You are sobbing mad, Mark.
I don't doubt that if webpages could get wet, we'd see your every post wrinkled with your tears of angry frustration.
You have a serious hangup about "extremism" as you see it, and this "middle ground" thing of yours is all too laughable.
I am here, Mark. I am here on the only middle ground that exists. You can't even point out where your middle ground begins and where it ends. That's because you aren't here on the only middle ground.
As a Republican, you are stuck far out into fascist, extremist, Randian territory and you seek to "drag" people out of the only middle ground around while making "middle ground" noises.
I dug in a long time ago. I don't need to become a Republitard, thanks all the same, nor do I need to embrace insanity.
Fire away, Gridley. You were blown to smithereens some time back. All you've got is a lame trolling response pattern to toss my way. Doesn't hurt me a bit. Go ahead and have fun with your self-congratulating delusions. That's all people like you have to begin with. Just par for the course.
>>>"I hold the middle ground, Mark. And I can point it out to you anytime."
Ok, please do because I have offered my hand out to Atheist and have had the same in return. If you consider yourself the true Middle then I would like to see your examples.
In order to avoid confusing you with too many examples I will simply state this:
I am for Equal Rights.
That's just one of them. It's one of the biggest, but I'm not going to mention any of the others.
Equal Rights is the epitome of the "middle ground" as regards all human beings.
Whereas, you, on the other hand, are a member of a political party that fights, among other things, for inequality and oppressive laws, rules, regulations, and so on while also calling for an end to any support for any equal rights whatsoever, i.e. smaller government that somehow only means destroying anything that helps all Americans equally.
Am I going too fast for you? I'll stop here. Let me know what you think about Equal Rights as a black Republican with a limited education, lack of empathy, and all your other shortcomings. I respect your Equal Rights to be...you.
so, they've got that going for them
Do tell. And Christians like you and beanidiot are just sweetness and light, huh?
It is the delusional nature of the religious beasts that allows them to completely ignore their own hypocrisy – like truth rolling off a duck's back.
They don't like truth because it won't fit into their delusion very easily. Plus, they're insane.
That's right. I've seen at least 2 agnostics post rebukes to the atheists here, scolding them for their trollish behaviour.
Have you? Then go copy and paste them. I'd like to see them.
Yes, we carry a lot of hatred; all that you lay upon us.
Well, b4 has certainly shown his true colors. I doubt anyone is fooled by his claim that he's a Christian after the posts he's typed today.
No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path...
momoya: "LOL No, you don't base your life on science; don't be silly.. You base your life on your values.. Science describes the world around you in a comprehensible, reliable way.. It doesn't tell you how to live your life.."
Thank you for posting just some of the limitations of science. I might also add that science does not have the capability intellectual authority or high ground to render the claims of the Bible as untrue. That, my friend, is a biased conclusion on the part of the person attempting to wield the scientific method.
This from the most intellectually dishonest sh!t here. Really, b4, you'd better hope your imaginary sky fairy will be forgiving when you reach those non-existent pearly gates. What do you have to show St. Peter besides your ugly, lying soul?
I see this type of responses all the time. Momoya was giving helpful advice to a retard 'b4bigbang' and now the theist in him wants to spin it into a positive for his religious argument.
It's always that way. Disparage science when you can't win against it.
Correct.. Science has no "authority" over religion or your or anybody else's god belief.. It can't have any authority over it because "it" is a concept held in the mind of the believer.. Only you, with proper reasoning can take control over your mind and destroy the compartmenalizing you've undertaken whereby you hold whole patterns of thought above the standards of logic and reasoning that you use in every other pattern in your thought..
No, science doesn't say your religion or god is false, science just makes your religion and god look pretty fvcking stupid.. Now if splattering disease infested pigeon blood had actually turned out to cure "leprosy".... well, we might be singing a different tune right now.
Yes, we would be singing Deaf Leper songs and working for our Jew overlords. Wait...
I wonder just what posters like b4 think they achieve here. They repel and repulse others. I doubt a single one of b4's posts have ever persuaded anyone to believe in Christ or God. Why would anyone want to believe in beings who require their followers to be ignorant dolts who are more concerned with the sins of others than the good they themselves do?
I can't even imagine b4 taking dinner to a shut-in member of its church. If it did, the poor recipient would likely bar the door. Who'd want contact with a POS like that?
Tom Tom – it's very true that their kind will hang out with other pieces of sh.it beings like themselves.
Every man, woman, and child has the need for company. This is fact. So even if we can deny them in words they will have their own pieces of s.it niche groups.
Apparently so. Just look at b4's latest post to me.
Yep, quite telling. The moron 'b4bigbang' believes in the negative virtues of the phony 'Tom' that tried to label you as such. Showing everyone here conclusively that when a person dislikes another person that they will support the negative comment about 'that person' they hate.
Nothing new really. It's obvious that however nutcased b4 is.. he obviously has a rage against you.
Oh, no doubt. I probably injured his pride at some point and he thinks that the worst thing he can do is accuse me of being gay. Poor thing; he actually thinks that hom0s3xuals are inferior, damaged, and lesser beings than he.
Sad, what a lack of education does in someone's life.
@Bootyfunk: You prefer "empirical" evidence. Glad you said that, I've been meaning to look at this method's strengths and weaknesses.
The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation. Empirical data are data produced by an observation or experiment.
The standard positivist view of empirically acquired information has been that observation, experience, and experiment serve as neutral arbiters between competing theories.
HOWEVER, since the 1960s, Thomas Kuhn has promoted the concept that
* these methods are influenced by prior beliefs and experiences.*
Consequently it cannot be expected that two scientists when observing, experiencing, or experimenting on the same event will make the same theory-neutral observations. The role of observation as a theory-neutral arbiter may not be possible. Theory-dependence of observation means that, even if there were agreed methods of inference and interpretation, scientists may still disagree on the nature of empirical data.
And I'm supposed to base my life on THIS?
Sorry, i forgot: source: wikipedia
I know it's not an academic source, but if you dispute what it says here, then please do so. Also, feel free to dispute the article; it's set up that way you know.
Who cares what you base your sorry existence on, you fraudulent twerp? You're a disgusting sh!t. Who'd want to be anything like you?
"And I'm supposed to base my life on THIS?"
So hilarious. And here you are spouting off on the life of living by the bible. ROFL.
Better to read that garbage than get educated? That is so rich.
Just so. The more I see of the sort of "Christians' b4 represents, the less I want to have a thing to do with them. Ignorant, stupid, borderline illiterate knobs, the lot of them.
b4 is one more in a long, long line.
I love it when theists pose that question .. "am I supposed to live my life that way?" It means only one thing .. "I refuse to live in reality because my fantasy afterlife world gives me stability and sanity now to deal with this tough life."
This is the heart of the struggle with stupid people who believe in gods.
Who said you have to base your life on anything? You're alive aren't you? This is your problem. You think your life means something. It doesn't amount to anything. Just because you feel like you just to have some higher purpose doesn't mean that a purpose exists. You're so full of yourself it's unbelievable. Ego fuels the religious. All of you believers think you're so fucking special. Short yellow bus special, maybe. Guess what. You aren't. There's no one answering your prayers, and you don't have a special purpose. You're simply alive, in the same boat as every other living organism. You live, and you die. Welcome to reality.
LOL No, you don't base your life on science; don't be silly.. You base your life on your values.. Science describes the world around you in a comprehensible, reliable way.. It doesn't tell you how to live your life..
Bootyfunk: ""Dont you have any actual scientists you can talk with face-to-face"
did i say something to make you think i didn't? my best friend is a geologist. other friends include an oceanographer and an astrophysicist. and believe me, i plague them with questions. and every answer i get confirms my disbelief in god. perhaps YOU should get some friends in the scientific fields...
My pastor at university fellowship was a physics professor. I also have an atheist friend who is an MD. Are the 3 scientist friends of yours all atheists? Have you talked at length with any believing scientists and asked them how they can believe?
Also, the fact that science books are peer-reviewed doesnt take away from my argument. YOU YOURSELF have only believed because the books and your 3 science friends say believe this way – you yourself have not done the research/experiments.
Also, even if you have done the experiments, another of my points is that *the other disciplines have similar methodology* (except you cant repeat the same archaeology discovery), so why should you neglect for example archaeological digs inIsrael that tend to confirm the Bible's historical accuracy?
also, you keep saying what we learned is from a book, just like you, but that's completely FALSE. again, scientific evidence is up for review by anyone (and will be especially harshly reviewed by peers) – there is ZERO evidence for god. real evidence. not imaginary evidence. you know the difference, so stop playing ignorant. there is no evidence for God. none. prove me wrong. hint: use empirical evidence.
Look in the mirror, you idiot, and read your own second paragraph to yourself.
Really, you are such a waste of time. You're a lying jerk.
I've struggled with religious belief for some time now. I was raised by a very devout mother and was a faithful churchgoer for a long time.
People like you, b4, have done far more to cement my doubt in a god and my dislike of organized religion and its zealots than any other event in my life.
You're not the kind of person I'd ever want to be or emulate.
Tom, I find it fascinating every time i hear a testimony by a person regarding how they, in some cases, had spent most of their adult life in church only to come out and claim unbelief.
In your case, what caused you to attend for years, only to come out later as an atheist?
People just like YOU did. Hypocrites, haters, racists, h0mophobes, and misogynists just like YOU.
I realized that people like you are ignorant and uneducated. That you're intolerant of anyone who doesn't worship a god like yours. I realized that your phony god is non-existent. It's a sign of your own fear of death and nothing more.
You're a sham.
You've done nothing but prove it here.
Oh yes, Tom, i forgot for the moment your online confession a few weeks ago.
H o m o s e x u a l i t y is not your friend Tom, especially for a 'bottom' such as yourself.
If you dont stop abusing your body you can develop gay bowel syndrome.
I met more and more azzholes just like you in church every time I went. They were oh-so-holy in church on Sunday and then turned around Monday and screwed their neighbors, abused their children, and abandoned their friends who were sick, bedridden, and dying.
They cast out their daughters when they got pregnant out of wedlock. They denied their children when they told them they were gay.
You're one of a long line of hateful, horrible humans who parade their "faith" as if it were an excuse to mistreat others.
Idiot, I'm not gay. I'm straight and married. And you're a moron.
30 years in the church defending the indefensible before I opened my eyes and started actually seeking truth which requires being exposed to more literature than just the bible. Faith cannot withstand the calm determination of truth when battled with reason, which is why those who think analytically often leave their childish belief of Santa, the Easter Bunny and eventually Jesus behind.
Christianity 101: The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was also his own father can make you live forever in his cloud kingdom if you symbolically devour his flesh and blood and telephathically accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul which is present in humanity because a woman made from a bone was convinced by talking to a snake to eat from a magical tree.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
"Truth is stranger than fiction."
So I guess you believe that the stranger it sounds the more accurate it must be? There are many ancient wild and strange tales from Hercules to Gilgamesh, I guess you take them as fact also? I know you are just trying to be snide with the comment, but it really just reveals the ignorance of your position, that you have no other response than "Uh, yeah, pretty strange beliefs I know, but isn't the universe pretty darn strange?"