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April 30th, 2012
12:24 PM ET
Columnist Dan Savage stands by comments on 'bulls**t in the Bible'By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Columnist and gay-rights advocate Dan Savage is standing by his comment that “we can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people” at a recent conference for high school students, a line that prompted some to walk out and spurred intense online debate. In a blog post on Sunday, Savage wrote that his remark at a conference for the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association was "being spun as an attack on Christianity. Which is bullshhh… which is untrue.” “I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised," Savage wrote. "I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against — and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying 'motivated by faith') — because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong.” Some Christian students walked out of the Seattle speech, prompting another controversial line from Savage: “It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansya**ed people react when you push back.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Savage apologized for that specific remark in Sunday’s blog post, writing that his word choice “was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong.” One of the teachers attending the speech with his students told CNN’s Carol Costello on Monday that he was taken aback by the speech and that he supported the decision of some of his students to walk out of it. “It took a real dark, hostile turn, certainly, as I saw it,” said Rick Tuttle, a teacher at Sutter Union High School in Southern California. “It became very hostile toward Christianity, to the point that many students did walk out, including some of my students.” Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “They felt that they were attacked … a very pointed, direct attack on one particular group of students. It’s amazing that we go to an anti-bullying speech and one group of students is picked on in particular, with harsh, profane language.” Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I feel sorry for the vast majority of you commenting on here. Your hearts are so full of hate and it's obvious. How can you claim Christians are so full of hate but if you actually read the comments it's nothing but atheists spouting vile hateful comments at Christians. Quite hypocritical if you ask me.
Regardless I hope you all can find peace in your heart.
AMEN!
It is hate that festers in the heart of the religious. It is your very nature to pass off this and blame everyone else for it.
Your kind are so steep in hate that you don't even look in the mirror of everything that you 'don't' agree with then turn that to advocacy and then tell everyone else that "you're just helping – or healing" – when in truth it is hate.
Why don't you take a deep look at the words your kind use.
But, if you notice–not a lot of people are taking your side. Why? Maybe because they can't really endorse that part of their religion which they find wrong?
"I feel sorry for the vast majority of you commenting on here."
And you judge others to be the objects of your pity, how exactly?
Disagreement with someone's holy book does imply hate.
Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. It's that simple.
"Your hearts are so full of hate and it's obvious."
Who claim that these people should be burned and tortured for eternity?:
Hom.ose.xuals
Atheists
Any non-christian who has not accepted your Christ.
Women who use their right to choose.
How about some things that the bible does not condemn:
Slavery
Incest
Polygamy
Murder of babies as long as God commanded it
Hos about some things the bible condemns but modern Christians don't take seriously:
Eating shellfish
Eating pork
wearing clothes made from multiple materials
divorce
killing children for disobedience
not touching a women during her period
And you wonder why atheists tend to come to these boards and refute your belief system? Go ahead, make all kinds of excuses for why these things don't apply, but you know deep down you are just lying to yourself to continue your additction. What are you addicted to you might ask? You are addicted to feeling superior, to being told you are super special and you and all the people you like will be saved and given all kinds of heavenly treatment because you happened to be born to parents that indoctrinated you from a young age to believe just like they did and to do anything else would be a slap in their face and it would be as if you were calling your parent or grandparents stupid... So really, you remain a Christian because you like feeling special and to do otherwise would be disrespectful to your peers who told you it was all true. Seems like a pretty poor reason to base ones understanding of truth and religion to me.
I can easily claim that Christians are full of hate. Check this ou if you don't believe it: http://amzn.to/Ip9hfn
This man needs to be stripped of his credentials. No one should be allowed to use hate speech like this. He attacked children and as a Christian I am highly offended that this persecution is allowed to take place in America today.
He admitted that he went too far. He has been offended by the faithful for far too long. I'm sure it gets to you after a while.
Calling something bulls**t is not hate speech, it is free speech.
Offence is taken, not given. That you are offended is irrelevant.
Yes, by all means, let's have a facist regiem–maybe you can then persecute them!
So do you go by Chris Trolling, usually?
He didn't attack children! He simply told them the truth. He was simply pointing out that the stories are bullying. You might wish to read that book instead of hearing what you wish to hear before judging this man. He can be harsh but he is right...bullying in most forms stems from what children learn from that book.
Go to confession and stop whining about it.
“The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three-headed monster: Cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging three-headed beast-like god, one needs only to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: Fools and hypocrites.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father and 3rd President of the United States of America
HORSE CRAP, IF YOU CAN SHOW ME PROOF OF HIM SAYING THAT, AND I MEAN REAL PROOF NOT JUST SOME POST ON THE NET!! AND IF NOT VIDEO, PROBABLY WONT BE, THEN I NEED TO HAVE SAID BOOK VERIFIED BY THE ANTIQUES ROAD SHOW OR ONE OF THE THREE LARGEST HISTORY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY FOR AUTHENTICITY!!! Thank you.. 🙂
I'd like to see the citation, as well.
@brandon p,
Please stop yelling. thanks.
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
– Thomas Jefferson Query 17 on religion in his Notes on the State of Virginia 1781
Jefferson had plenty of objections to Chrisitanity, but this quote has never been confirmed as one made by Thomas Jefferson.
- Quotation 'Not Found,' popularly alleged to have been in a letter to his nephew, Peter Carr. Our editor, Cliff Walker, checked "by hand" every letter to Peter Carr included in the Multomah County Library's reader copy of Jefferson's Works and found nothing along these lines in any such letter.
A Christian asking for proof! Oh the irony. ROFL
@brandon p – regarding @Thomas Jefferson's quote.
The quote provided is certainly disputed and may never have been uttered by Jefferson. However, the following quote (with source) serves essentially the same purpose:
"Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a Censor morum over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
Jefferson, Thomas – Notes on the State of Virginia
Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library
"HORSE CRAP, IF YOU CAN SHOW ME PROOF OF HIM SAYING THAT, AND I MEAN REAL PROOF NOT JUST SOME POST ON THE NET!! AND IF NOT VIDEO, PROBABLY WONT BE, THEN I NEED TO HAVE SAID BOOK VERIFIED BY THE ANTIQUES ROAD SHOW OR ONE OF THE THREE LARGEST HISTORY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY FOR AUTHENTICITY!!! Thank you."
Please show me PROOF that your religion is the one and only true religion, not just some book written by ancient men. REAL PROOF is needed!
Typical of the dishonesty that permeates those who attack the Bible and/or support the gay agenda.
Option 1: Human Rights
Option 2: The Bible
Choose one.
That silly attempt only shows your ignorance.
Option 1: You're a moron
Option 2: You're a hypocrit
Choose one.
The Bible endorses slavery. The bibles endorses, nay DEMANDS, the destruction of gais[sic]. Whereas human rights endorses the fact that superficial skin pigment is not a basis by which we can judge the character of a human being, and the idea that private and benign acts of love should be an inalienable right of human beings.
There is a dichotomy here. You must choose one. If we value decency, and morality, and goodness in this world, there is only one right answer. To choose wrongly is to betray the evil within you.
Which do you choose?
The bible does not endorse slavery. It comments on how that relationship should work in order for the other party to see Christ in them. I wonder what many of the civil rights heroes would say about this comment, or have we forgotten that those leaders tended to be Christian?
Adam,
The slavery mentioned in the Bible has nothing to do with skin color. I personally don't care to debate with someone who clearly has no knowledge on the subject, but yet they think they're an expert. I've met many people like that in my life and the conclusions are all the same; you can't try to persuade someone who has already persuaded themselves that they have all the answers in the world.
$20 says you haven't held a Bible in your life...
Liberals will always be the first to lecture on other peoples' faiths, even though most are arrogant militant atheists, who look down on anyone who believes in religion.
Option 1: Human Rights (man's "rights")
Option 2: The Bible (God's way)
===========
You may not realize it, but from a Christian theological perspective, that it PRECISELY the choice on the table.
Do you want to declare the independence of mankind from God? Do you want to rebel against the Maker?
There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death" Proverbs 14
Yeah, "Thou shalt not make graven images" is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than "Thou shalt not enslave people" ?!
If you don't think the bible endorses slavery, then you haven't read the bible. Not only does the bible endorse slavery, the bible says that you can have sex slaves and that you can beat your slaves to death as long as they don't die on the same day. @Chad – I'll gladly have independence from a god who condones such heinous acts.
"Liberals will always be the first to lecture on other peoples' faiths, even though most are arrogant militant atheists, who look down on anyone who believes in religion."
Actually it's history that has shown why people need to look down on religion. Religion has caused more people to kill others because of their beliefs. Religion continues to fuel hatred and bigotry in our society.
==quote==
Do you want to declare the independence of mankind from God? Do you want to rebel against the Maker?
==end==
When there are no gods what's there to rebel against? Funny as hell these whack jobs and their fairy tales.
Mankind has always been his own maker and his own guardian and provider.
Thank you for your reply, Pharsalus. You are wrong.
Please read Leviticus and Exodus. The Creator of the Universe–Yahweh, the God of Abraham, the LORD your GOD–clearly expects us to keep slaves. If you do not concede this, you possess either no intellectual honesty, or a vocabulary that does not correlate to the rest of society, and which makes further communication impossible.
Moreover, Jesus never repudiates slavery. Tacit endorsements of slavery can be found in Timothy and Luke.
As to your other point, surely the Abolitionists were on the wrong side of the theological debate. That many in the civil rights movement in the US were Christians only speaks to the entrenchment of the Christian faith in those communities, and the willingness of its members to perform an exegesis of convenience, and forsaking an honest reading of the text for one bent by the lens of preexisting love (read: adherence). Such liberal views of social issues such as slavery and LGBT do not come from reading and following the Bible more closely, but rather from concessions to a more modern, liberal secularism that has been invading the religious sphere for, oh, 400 years or so.
God, good sir, is NOT a moderate. And the acrobatics you perform to convince yourself otherwise are nauseating.
@*facepalm* "... the bible says that you can have sex slaves and that you can beat your slaves to death as long as they don't die on the same day. ..."
=>that's not what it says.
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property Exodus 21
Thank you for your reply, Chad. In fact I do understand that distinction. God's way or the highway, right?
I will say this: if, on the way back from service on the Sabbath, you happen across an old mad collecting sticks, you understand of course from the revealed word of the Creator of the Universe, that you must destroy this man (Numbers 15).
Now, you can either do it, and fulfill God's requirement, or you can refuse to. I refuse to do this, because such a command is manifestly immoral and abhorrent. You, however, know you must carry this out. I submit to you, Chad, that if you do carry out this action, that despite what you believe about the metaphysics of the universe, and the righteousness you must feel at carrying out the command of God, you have betrayed yourself as not fit to live among the human race. If the Creator of the Universe thinks otherwise, then he is not fit to wash my feet.
@Chad, ok, my mistake. You can beat a slave so long as they recover in a day or two. Please explain how this is moral. In ANY context.
Regarding Chad on Exodus 21-
And, there you go...Chad defending the bible's justification of slavery. What more can be said?
By the way @Chad, it all depends on which version of the bible you read. According to the New American Bible:
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
Strong's translates 'survives' as continue. As in 'if he continue for a day or two'. That would seem like 'survive' to me. So, let's examine the Hebrew, shall we? According to strong's the verb is translated as "to stand, remain, endure, take one's stand"
Not sure where you'd get 'recover' from that.
@Mike. You would have lost your $20, had that statement been anything but a disingenuous snipe. I will check back here if you wish to add anything of substance.
Atheists don't "rebel" against any gods, they rebel against the IDEA of gods.
@Adam "Thank you for your reply, Chad. In fact I do understand that distinction. God's way or the highway, right?"
@Chad "yes, precisely. God's way or the highway.
==========
@Adam " I will say this: if, on the way back from service on the Sabbath, you happen across an old man collecting sticks, you understand of course from the revealed word of the Creator of the Universe, that you must destroy this man (Numbers 15).
@Chad "It depends on the motivating purpose of the stick collection, As Jesus pointed from the OT:
When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” 3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
==========
@Adam "Now, you can either do it, and fulfill God's requirement, or you can refuse to. I refuse to do this, because such a command is manifestly immoral and abhorrent."
@Chad "
a. the rule is certainly NOT immoral
b. you dont have to now, those rules (the Law) are the old covenant, we are now under a new covenant."
==========
@Adam " You, however, know you must carry this out..."
@Chad " no I dont, that's OT, I am not under that covenant."
@Chad, so your god is a moral relativist? And where Jesus (supposedly) said he wasn't coming to replace the old laws, he was what ... kidding?
Your god justified slavery. How can you follow such a monster?
"The bible does not endorse slavery. It comments on how that relationship should work in order for the other party to see Christ in them. "
Yet the bible doesn't denounce slavery as well....where are the passages from Jesus stating slavery is immoral? Bet you can find the passages about gays being immoral but not slavery and slave masters.
Really-O?, *facepalm* "Slavery is immoral"
=>taking people by force and making the slaves, while an accepted practice for centuries I believe is wrong. Note that this is specifically prohibited by the bible:
To put the entire thing in perspective:
These are the laws you are to set before them: 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. 5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life. 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money. 12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. 13 However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death. 15 “Anyone who attacks[c] their father or mother is to be put to death. 16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession. 17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. 18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed. 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. – Exodus 21
@Chad-
I'm heartened to see you condemn slavery; however, in your c&p I see many examples of condoned slavery as well as authority granted to treat subordinates (in most, but not all, cases women and children) as chattel (is it really possible you do not see these for what they are?). I would be doubly heartened to see you condemn all of these practices, and also condemn the "authority" which sees fit to grant them as rights.
@Chad –
BTW...in no way does your c&p support your claim that slavery (even by force – you need to realize that force applies to everyone, women and children included) is "specifically prohibited by the bible". Please Chad, actually read what you c&p before you post it.
@Chad-
Just one more thing regarding "taking people by force and making the [sic] slaves, while an accepted practice for centuries I believe is wrong".
You only "believe" it is wrong? If the immorality of slavery is relative and subject to one's personal moral (immoral) code, then exactly what IS truly immoral? If you refer to the ten commandments, you've dug your own grave.
@Really-O? "..I see many examples of condoned slavery as well as authority granted to treat subordinates (in most, but not all, cases women and children) as chattel (is it really possible you do not see these for what they are?)."'
@Chad "everything in context
"selling oneself into servitude" was a quite commonplace practice, there was no "social safety net" at the time, and often that was the only way to avoid starvation.
Do you understand that?
You feel it better to have forbidden that practice at that time? What alternative are you offering those people? Bear in mind that the bible throughout commands empathy and taking care of those that cant take care of them selves.
“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 9
@Chad-
You see, the thing is, you're not arguing for or against these things based on temporal cultural norms; your assertion is that each and every one of these is the inerrant word of god and therefore is eternally good. That makes your argument unethical and immoral (your god too).
Do you understand the difference between "selling oneself into servitude" and kidnapping someone and forcing them to be a slave?
I realize you wont actually answer the question, or you'll claim the difference is irrelevant, as you are desperately trying to create a situation where a Christian must declare as "immoral" that which God has provided rules to conduct said practice by 😉
you see, it's only by ignoring the context that you can attempt to create that false dichotomy..
@Chad-
I'd be interested in the context that makes the following moral and ethical with regard to the woman and children –
"If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free."
@Chad- regarding ""selling oneself into servitude" and kidnapping"
I will answer the question – both are immoral, unethical, and illegal (in nearly every country on the face of the planet). The fact that your holy books say they're O.K. just serves as more evidence that they were written by fallible humans with Bronze & Iron Age moralities. It is fortunate for humankind that our cultures and sensibilities have evolved.
@Chad-
No replies necessary. After vowing that I would no longer engage you in this forum for ethical reasons, I've faltered and done just that. I apologize.
@Chad "Do you understand the difference between "selling oneself into servitude" and kidnapping someone and forcing them to be a slave?"
@Really-O "they are both immoral"
@Chad "as predicted, you didnt answer the question 😉
the difference between the two is one is done with the consent of the person (the situation they are in is coercing them obviously, but they are not forced by another person), the other not.
Now, I know what you are going to say "no one is going to consent to selling themselves", and you are incorrect. It was common practice and widely done 3000 years ago.
Remember, context (that thing you avoid at all costs). There is a big difference.
Ooooh... Don't let me hear anything against my beloved bible. I must protect myself from all critical thinking lest I (wise up) lose my faith.
wow this guy is brilliant, his context of the bible is supurb. Dividing one group against another, Bravo! His message has solved the Gay / Christian problem!! What a truly brilliant speaker.
You are correct in all your statements except the one about solving the gay/straight bullying.. He helped raise an important issue and now we can further the debate on the issue.
It's "Chistians" like you that are slowly killing religion in the U.S. To listen to someone who actually "tells it like it is" is needed in this day and age. Those Bible quoting fanatics only live by the passages in the Bible that appeal to them, and totally ignore the parts that they find objectionable. Sort of a "pick and choose" philosophy of their own religion(s). If religion(s) i.e. Christianity are to survive in this country, they must be open to their own worshipers thoughts and opinions–or surely even more people will turn away from organized religions.
Guess Dan didn't get your memo. We all did though. Gotta love PrtSc.
I didn't hear anywhere in there where he called the bible B S like the banner on the newscast says. Just another case of media hype.
He did call parts of the bible B S. Of course that's true. If anyone doen't think that is true then they are truely tarded.
Christians are suddenly quite the flustered bunch now that they have had to endure a whole 4 minutes of the kinds of taunts that many gay and lesbian children have had to endure most of their lives.
I was verbally and physically attacked from the time I was 6. By peers and teachers, strangers and adults. I was told to "ignore then and they'll leave you alone" or "stop being a cry baby."
Time to take your own advice. Don't like it? Choose not to be a Christian. It's a choice, after all.
Be smart, not 'christian.'
I'm sorry those things happened to you. As a Christian, I (and the Bible) doesn't support the beating or verbal abuse of gay people. Jesus wanted to help those who society hated, and we as Christians should strive to do that also. Please don't judge the religion after bad people who claim it, that will fail no matter what you're looking at.
Christianity is all about intolerance. Fuck christianity and all of its "faithful."
@Chair,
And I'm guessing you'd consider yourself tolerant? Especially that comment of yours? LOL, oh the hypocrisy. Atheists seem to have much more hate than Christians judging by these comments day in and day out.
A Chair To Your Face,,,, ,,,, ,,,, ,
Show us what makes you impart to others your bitterness please! My showing all my pain of bitterness and earlied Acts way before I became an adult may not have been if I did not think many would see my emotional pains! For one such as your foldedness clay-nation does ever clamour the bemoaning tempest of heavily winded non-charitousness sakedness! If all that you can do is continually speak in damnation's accusals then go find yourself a rock to crawl under!
Oliver,,,,,,,,,,,, ,
Christendom on a social level is a pot ever boiling over while at an individual level Christ's versed parables may or not give one understanding and hopes for an ever eternal living and dying and living and dying throught the eternalness embers of a once lit culmination of light! The bitter fruits of childhood's dispensation are sometimes wrought with filthy dirtbags! I for one have done ill toward my brother and I stand now with him in living out our lives together with an understanding between us to shoulder ous days ongoing burdens!
@ truth – so your bible doesn't condone or support physical or verbal abuse of gay folks?
Are you freaking nuts? Your god commands you go and KILL gay folks.
I love it when religious types are presented with the facts about their beloved texts, they cry foul or that their being attacked or discriminated against. Even with the facts in front of them they refuse to accept it. The facts coincide with the truth. And the truth is that the bible or any other religious book are antiquated fairy tales full of outdated ways of thinking and discrimination and hate.
rather broad statements.. do you have any specific examples of any of these claims?
(2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, (3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, (4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; (5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, (7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:2-7
Amen.
Just hope you'll be happy with the facts about an after life and the antiquated fairy tales of eternity! – Love the sinner, not the sin.
What "facts" do you have about the afterlife, lol?
Joe. man made up the saying love the sinner, not the sin.
==quote==
HeavenSent
Joe. man made up the saying love the sinner, not the sin.
==end==
Quite funny when an idiot can actually say that man made up that statement and then refuse to admit that man also made up the bs bible. Retarded.
–QUOTE–
momoya
What "facts" do you have about the afterlife, lol?
My facts come from 66 books in a codex called the Bible. Glad I could make u laugh momo!
–QUOTE–
HeavenSent
Joe. man made up the saying love the sinner, not the sin.
HS: Thanks for clearing that up for me... Gee I thought I made it up. SO WHAT?
@Joe – facts: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inconceivable!
Oh those poor tender children. They plan to be journalists? What are they planning on writing about, Bake Sales and Puppy Adoptions?
What?!?
Islam never gets attacked for being against gays, this gentlemen is filled with anger, and needs to learn how to turn the other cheek before bashing a religion and people that just, at the end of the day, has a different opinion than he does.
And amongst our slightly different opinions are things like "children who talk smack should be killed" and "gays should be killied" and "A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped should be killed" and "A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding should be killed" and "people who take the LORD's name in vain or cursing his name should be killed" and "people who worship other gods should be killed."
Just like you, except for little tiny differences of opinion.
In this case, christianity wasn't attacked at all.. If anything was "attacked" it was cons.istency in excl.uding biblical laws that don't apply today–such as sla.very (we've disregarded the bible's views on it) and ho.mose3xuality (we SHOULD disregard what the bible says).
Electric Larry, you fool! None of that is in the Bible. Absolutely none of it! You quote it if it is, you give atheists a bad rap, you sit there with no one to answer to except your own arrogant self (in your mind) and lie and don't do research, because what does it matter right dawkins already said there is no right or wrong, no good or evil. You are pathetic, if you believe that is in the Bible, you sir are pathetic!!! None of that is in their, quote it! You are so full of mess, you need rzim.org sir, or bethinking.org, but i reccomend rzim cause you need serious informing.
momoya once just reapeating what some bad example of an atheist put on his site? Some moraless moran, the bible is about the first part of the Bible is about God's people leaving slavery and establishing how wrong it is! Then the bible established slavery law, and it said, that if you have a servant, after he has served you for his agreed time, he is to be set free or given the choice to be free, and the old testament never endorsed slavery as you are describing!! You fool!!! New testament has no slavery, look at you in the USA, one of the most blessed and prosperous countries in the world, using your GOD given rights to look foolish!
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death." (Exodus 21:17)
"For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'" (Matthew 15:4)
1. So now you're just changing your position??. Fvck no, I don't think so.. You made a stupid claim–you don't just get to ignore that and throw more a.ssumptions at the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't.
2. My a.ssessment was correct, wasn't it?. Sava.ge didn't attack christianity, he attacked the shifting morals of bible believers
3. No, the bible never expresses that sla.very is wrong; not once, not ever.. Even in the NT sla.very is condoned.. Study your bible (perhaps start with verses Dan referenced).
4. The USA is "favored" because it stole land from the natives and then slaughtered a few dozen millions of them and used the "fat of the land" to become prosperous.. Islam was a lot more "prosperous" during the dark ages than America was in the past two centuries on and off–you don't claim that their prosperity then was a sign of their god belief being correct, do you?
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
KiII Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
KiII Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
KiII People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Leviticus 25:44-46
New International Version (NIV)
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Check out the references here if you like. All are in the Bible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_and_punishment_in_the_Bible
I AM NOT CHANGING MY POSITION, WE ARE NOT BLESSED BECAUSE OF WHAT WE DID SO LONG AGO! IF ANYONE IS GOING TO BE KILLED, THEY WILL BE KILLED BY GOD AND NOT US!!!! WHAT DID JESUS SAY YOU DEF IDIOT!!! WHAT DID HE SAY!!! I AM A CHRISTIAN DONT BRING OLD TESTAMENT, JESUS ALREADY CLARIFIED THE OLD TESTAMENT!!!!! YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID SO STFU!!!!! YOU ARE A JOKE AND I WILL PWN YOU!!! YOU ARE NOTHING PATHETIC TROLL!!!!!
"Electric Larry, you fool! None of that is in the Bible. Absolutely none of it! "
I think this might be the first time brandon p here actually opens his own bible and does some reading. Will be eye opening for any gullible followers who have just accepted whatever drivel their priest or pastor has been dispensing.
Go, read, learn about your own religion before ignorantly trying to defend it.
Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5), instructs his followers to obey every last old law or you will not get into heaven:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Ah, and he reverts to the last resort of the ignorant, CAPS LOCK, hate and misspelled words.
And by the way, how did Christ feel about the Hebrew Sciptures? "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:17-19
So much for your "I AM A CHRISTIAN DONT BRING OLD TESTAMENT, JESUS ALREADY CLARIFIED THE OLD TESTAMENT" statement.
I'm beginning to think that brandon is a Poe
@brandon,
So your god is a moral relativist, got it. Sorry that you can't handle the clear and obvious immorality of your book. Sorry that you've been shown the ignorance of your initial position ('none of it is in the bible'). Maybe you should try actually READING the thing. You might notice a part where your savior explicitly states that he wasn't doing away with old testament laws.
And since when do Christians only read half the bible?
Brandon...you forgot to add, in all that capslock: "OH CRAP I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT."
So would it have been better for him to say that a huge percentage of the population was going to fry forever in a never-ending fire pit?
Revelation 22:14-15
Amen.
No momoya, the point here is, that only GOD can judge us, Jesus already established that we shouldnt judge others, the Bible says only confess your sins to GOD because he is the only one who can Judge, and I am sorry for calling you a fool. PEOPLE JESUS TAUGHT DON'T JUDGE OTHERS! THE MAJORITY OF GAY BULLYING IS DONE BY INSECURE JOCKS! JESUS SAID TO LOVE EVERYONE AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF, AND CHRISTIANITY FOLLOWS THE TEACHINGS OF HIM!!! QUIT PICKING ON US, I AND THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS NEVER PICKED ON GAYS OR ANYONE IN OUR LIFE!!!
Let me just get this straight.. Saying that we should ignore the parts of the bible that condone killing, sla.very, and g.ay bashing, is bad, but telling a group of people that most of them are going to be eternally tortured in a lake of fire is good?!!? LOL, got it.
Well it is true. The bible is just a book with a bunch of bullsh•t fairy tales. Deal with it.
I can't see your brain so it must be true that you don't have one.
Lol, your sub par attempt at insult is laughable. The fact that the bible is full of falsehoods dose not change.
Really? Can you prove that? I mean we do have other historical accounts supporting Biblical Scripture, but I'd like to know where you came by your information that its all BS. I guess its true, if you don't believe in anything, you'll believe anything.
im chuckling a little. when i remove the religous aspect and consider that the author is being critical of a book which promotes discrimination against a group of people the reaction would be far different.
interesting, so in which way did Jesus encourage discrimination against anyone? At any point. He came to correct that mindset, he said "He who is without sin cast the first stone" meaning we have all fallen short of the glory of GOD, and telling people they are sinners and punishing them is hyprocritical, Jesus' pet peave, if he had one above all, was hypocrits. Jesus says Christians should be a light, shine as bright as you can, do good things and make people look at you and your faith and happiness, they will look at your light and they will want the source of it. HE NEVER SAYS PICK ON ANYONE OR PUNISH ANYONE, INCLUDING GAYS, WHICH ONLY INSECURE UNCHRISTIANLY JOCKS DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@brandon,
So now you're limiting yourself to only the four gospels (by unkown authors who almost certainly didn't know Jesus and who only recorded what he supposedly said many decades after he had already died) and ignore the rest of the NT? Or do you just ignore the inconvenient parts?
I'm beginning to agree with another poster – you must be a Poe. There are plenty of Christians that are ignorant of what the bible says, but rarely is anyone THAT ignorant.
well the bible is BullS**t.
Did you forget to do something? Ooooopsie! LOL
@Dan Gilgoff
Should you ever need a hand proofreading your articles, be sure and ask someone who knows how to do that instead of tossing this salad at us and making me wish someone would make you rewrite the damn thing.
Did you hate your English professors? Your journalism professors? Were you one of those people who slide through a university on beer and skittles?
How did you get your job here at CNN?
Family? Friends?
People who didn't really care about getting someone with the sort of drive that makes a great editor?
Well, thanks just all the same but I think it might be nice for you to think about a change of scenery.
The job market's getting better now and there's no reason why you couldn't just toss your CV out there to see if you can't get a nibble or two from some interesting place where you don't have to worry about making something easy to read and grammatically accurate.
You know – all that "editor" stuff.
Yeah. Toss this crap. Go find something more fun to do. Go on. Beat it, ya bum.
Reblogged this on Meir Weiss' Blog.