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April 30th, 2012
12:24 PM ET
Columnist Dan Savage stands by comments on 'bulls**t in the Bible'By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Columnist and gay-rights advocate Dan Savage is standing by his comment that “we can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people” at a recent conference for high school students, a line that prompted some to walk out and spurred intense online debate. In a blog post on Sunday, Savage wrote that his remark at a conference for the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association was "being spun as an attack on Christianity. Which is bullshhh… which is untrue.” “I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised," Savage wrote. "I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against — and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying 'motivated by faith') — because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong.” Some Christian students walked out of the Seattle speech, prompting another controversial line from Savage: “It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansya**ed people react when you push back.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Savage apologized for that specific remark in Sunday’s blog post, writing that his word choice “was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong.” One of the teachers attending the speech with his students told CNN’s Carol Costello on Monday that he was taken aback by the speech and that he supported the decision of some of his students to walk out of it. “It took a real dark, hostile turn, certainly, as I saw it,” said Rick Tuttle, a teacher at Sutter Union High School in Southern California. “It became very hostile toward Christianity, to the point that many students did walk out, including some of my students.” Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “They felt that they were attacked … a very pointed, direct attack on one particular group of students. It’s amazing that we go to an anti-bullying speech and one group of students is picked on in particular, with harsh, profane language.” Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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He is pretty funny - what no CUTTING STATEMENTS ON ISLAM WHO KILL GAYS- so we can go after gay's correct, we can go after atheist correct, we can go after ISLAM CORRECT- OR ARE YOU JUST A CHRISTIAN BASH-ER - SO MUCH ABOUT NOT BULLYING - SO YOUR A CHRISTIAN BASHING GAY BULLY!!! actually you just a POS!!!
Time for your Thorazine, dear.
Aw, but Ann...I thought this was a 'christian nation', so it seems like his remks re the bible were just to the majority of the fools in this great nation. Right?
Because Islam has limited power in this country, thus making jokes about how Muslims are propagating anti-gay legislation is far too thin.
that's funny it doesn't advocate child molesting either but that's a life style choice right? I mean doesn't every cause laud their opposition? I mean like this gay guy obviously teaching tolerance and understanding – or wait is that only if the other guy shows you the same? If the latter is the case then why would you expect any different?
@Zach, your argument would stand were it not for all the progressives who support Iran, Palestine, et al. where Islam IS in power and gays are persecuted and worse, executed. Further, progressive media outlets have made it clear several times that they will not address negative issues re: Muslims/Islam due to the high risk of a neanderthalic and violent response. In other words, they're bullies who are afraid of getting their butts kicked so they target Christians.
In all the comments from all the many Christian apologists on this board, I haven't noticed a single one saying that the Bible DOESN'T advocate 2nd-class treatment of gay people.
So maybe Dan Sa√age has a point, hmmm?
Doesn't matter anymore. Someone initiated the Outrage Sequence, from which there is no escape.
How is it that on this post we have so many people who identify as Christians, yet we have so much hate. Does that mean Christianity is equal to hate or does it mean that these self-identified Christians aren't practicing the teaching of Christ that says to not cast a stone upon a glass house, or what about that commandment that says to "love they neighbor as thyself". This is so sad. In the fight for our opinions, we lose all of our humanity. So who is the better person? Who is right, when we all lose in the end of this discussion. This is so sad.
Yeah, athies are free to hate EVERYONE, themselves included.
What if the universe is just the result of a random quantum fluctuation of the space-time vacuum? Who then would be willing to discard their Bible?
Me.
Perhaps some. However, despite the problems of religion, belief in something more is seemingly necessary for people to feel purpose. If you take away their belief, they feel as though you are taking away their purpose, and if that's the case...What's the point of it all?
If the motivation for doing good works is the promise of the rewards of Heaven, then you are doing these thing for all the wrong reasons. We, none of us, know what the "point of it all" is, if there is one. I, for one, am content not knowing because I am confident we will find that purpose some day, and I am an active participant in that search. In the mean time, I do good works because it's the right thing to do. Because if we, by our actions, kill each other off rather than help one another, then the search for the ultimate purpose ends abruptly.
There is no purpose other than the purpose you make yourself. Envision a world without humans, and then ask whats the purpose of mankind – we're just another link in the chain of random events. We have the liberty to make good purpose and truthful fact based descisions with our lives, give it a try – but you must use the "meat" between your ears.
While his words weren't chosen to really be endearing, I agree with the sentiment. Justifying your bullying because "the Bible says its ok" is not alright, and religion-based exceptions to anti-bullying laws/proposals are already in place, which makes the need to talk about this very relevant. And I agree that bullies who feel justified in bullying are cowardly and don't like pushback, which is a general characteristic of bullies anyway. Are his words offensive? Yeah. So is bullying though, and what's more, it's damaging and even life threatening. I think if Christians would turn off their Martyrdom and Religious Outrage Radar for five seconds, they'd be able to hear the sentiment behind the words.
Moral outrage radar? Do you mean like every non-white-male-Christian victim group the progressives have created? Groups like the NAACP which thinks the astronomical term "black hole" is racist? Or Mecha and La Raza ("The Race") who think people who condemn those who violate the law are racist because they differentiate between those who immigrate legally from those who "immigrate" illegally? Or gay bigots like the guy in the article who pigeonholes all christians into a single group then attacks them under the guise of anti-bullying (for some reason CNN deemed it important to only show excerpts from his vile speech – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs)? Or how about all those who are so intellectually dishonest and think the ONLY reason one can be unsupportive of the President is because of his race (by the way, he's as much white as he is black for all the progressives who missed it)? Is that the Moral Outrage Radar you refer to?
Its okay to be a bully when you're gay I guess.
Are you that dense? These guys have been bullied for centuries.
Dan...why can't you read? Something you don't agree with does not = bullying.
Have you ever been shoved up against a locker, or had your clothes ripped, or been pushed into the mud, or spat upon? THAT'S bullying. It goes beyond mere taunting, which is bad enuf. Dan Sa√age didn't do ANY of those things. He pointed out, with perfect accuracy, that a BOOK is being used to justify such behavior, and that's wrong, and some bigots couldn't stand to hear it.
When your a protected class you can bully all you want and go hide at the police station. haha
Personally I could claim to be bullied by any individual that holds a worldview of annihilation. It’s quite alright not knowing things, certainty is murderous – this is why I think not just Christianity but all religions falls under the category of mass bullying, all claims to supreme knowledge with no evidence are a recipe for disaster.
Guy drops a "BS" bomb at a high school event, and then calls people who didn't want to hear it "pansy assed". Bullied for centuries or not, makes him just as nasty as anyone who ever did it to him.
And yes, I was bullied in middle school for being a "nerd" and not fitting in, so I do know what it feels like. Also when I was being laid off recently, my gay former coworkers, thought it was okay to laugh about it, think I could sue for "hate speech" or some nonsense?
@Ting, my guess is that with Dan being only 47, he's not been bullied for centuries. In fact, considering some of the communities he's been associated with, he may have seen little to no bullying. Since many kids are bullied, the ugly, the poor, the demographic minority, and so on, they have just as many excuses to be bullies as well since they've also been bullied for "centuries"?
@RSR Yes I have been pushed up against a locker, punched, derided, etc. And if you consider what DAN defines bullying as and what the progressives who are behind this sudden bullying campaign also define it, what Dan did is, by that very definition, bullying.
@TheWHO By that standard you should toss "climate change" in there and probably throw it at the front of the list as Earths climate change has oddly raised the temperatures of the other planets in our solar system as well.
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There are and have been many many religions over the course of human history. Obviously, they cannot all be true. Since they are devised by humans, we, as humans, should not have the unbridled arrogance and hubris to believe that any one of them is the truth. They might all have useful elements and some truths to offer, but fundamentally, they are all wrong. Religion, like science, needs to be a process of investigating the facts (not fairy tales). When the belief system does not fit the facts, it should be discarded. As science has progressed and uncovered more truths about the universe, religion should have adapted or scaled back some of its claims, but for the most part, it has not done this. We do not know if and where science will ultimately his a wall, but if and when it does, then any compatible religion will look nothing like those we practice today.
And when was the last time you attended church, MIke?
Why is that relevant?
Odd Mike. I'm constantly hear from those who are of the science-is-king crowd that science does not declare facts. Instead, science examines evidence and then theorizes as to why the universe behaves the way it does. Now, when science fails, cold fusion for example, then it calls a mulligan and tries to figure it out again.
The funny thing is someone like you thinks science, in its current state, is the end-all be-all of knowledge because of it's observances of evidence.
Here's some cool science questions for you. Of the known universe, how much of the "evidence" has science examined? 10%? 1%? .1%? .01%? .001%? Not close? .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%? Still not close? What about all the past evidence lost to time due to it's transitory nature? What about all the evidence in the unknown universe? Yet somehow science has a grip on the question and nature of our existence? Dude, I love your faith!
To Christians, the word "bully" is equal to "bullsh!t." They've just got it into their minds somewhere that it's a "sin" to use words in public that can be deemed "offensive" or "profanity." But they sure have no problem with using the "spirit" of the word. Case in point: a fundamentalist told me last week that "secular humanism goes arm in arm with contemporary hom os ex ual thought, and as such is Bull-Pucky."
I told him: "you lack the courage of your convictions sir. Either just say "Bullsh!t" or think and then say another word that doesnt have the exact same connotation."
Most of the kids involved likely use much more inflammatory language just texting each other.
it's amusing to us with some depth to see how venomously the "enlightened" on here spew hate at Christians for supposedly being hateful. You people are complete hypocrites and you are too shallow to see it. laughable
It's not the language, it's the hypocrisy. Jesus had a special distaste for hypocrisy as do many christians. This does not mean christians are perfect or impervious to being hypocritical themselves. The difference is that true christians will repent of their hypocrisy while those who merely claim to be christian or are non-christian will often revel in it.
It's funny how Christians point at the Koran or Torah and say: "BS!" and don't care how the Muslims or Jews feel about that, but as soon as someone points at the Christian bible and says "BS!", they scream, rant, and do backflips. The Vatican has been brainwashing these people for centuries – Yes, the Vatican is BS too.
JERK!
JERK! JERK!
Albert's intellectual contributions to the discourse are SOOOO enlightening. I do appreciate all the subtle nuances and intricately wrought reasoning.
Agreed. Christians are bullies and whiners.
albert321 – Thank you for illustrating my point – are you doing backflips now? Don't damage your monitor.
We know the truth and you don't. When you smell the sulfur and feel the flames it will be too late to change your mind. Enjoy your short little crappy life, when it's over, it's over.
I smell sulfur right now. Did you fart again, CRC?
Hey christians, it doesn't seem ya'll have much choice.. The bible is clear about how you are too respond when something like this takes place: FORGIVE.
hmmmm.
What will you be saying while your ass is falling into the flames of hell sinner?
I don't see where "forgiveness" enters this. No one is persecuting this man. He made a fool of himself in front of children. That's punishment enough.
I'm sure you will have a chance to ask him @CRC, since you will be there right next to him.
@CRC: that's cute.
@Bob, Then obviously I'm not talking to you, Bob, but the countless other christians having a meltdown, here..
@CRC, I'll be saying, "The next time you experience me I'll be in your nostrils...."
You are right to a certain extent. Christians are taught to forgive and should forgive. However they forgive the sinner and do not accept the sin that was committed, which are two different things. Christ did indeed forgive sinners who confessed their sins. He did not condone or teach that sins are acceptable.
Really momoya? I thought I forgive those who repent.
Matthew 18:
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
It seems your ignorance has exceeded your knowledge of the subject.
I see all the Alinskyites and God haters have all congregated here. Nothing like defending sodomy by ridiculing Christianity.
Well, we were just waiting till you go here to begin serious, positive discussion.. Let's see it.
Very true. Dan the fool will get his reward when he dies. The flames of hell will never be quenched.
In the hands of its American acolytes, especially those in the southern part of the US, christianity has become a parody of itself. There is nothing to ridicule.
I completely agree with Dan's point of view, and feel that his comments are taken out of context.
Sensible people who've actually thought about the issue mostly agree with you.
Which part was taken out of context (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs)? The guy justified "beating up" on the Christians in the audience in defense of himself. Sounds pretty bigoted to lump all Christians into a single group that attacks gays. Is he including those "Christians" who support and even ordain gays or does he know that every single "Christian" in the audience belongs to some other denomination?
It seems the hypocrisy of progressives never ends and what's even more tragic is the people who are bending over backwards to defend the bigot. I guess bigotry is in as long as you're still useful to the cause. If he keeps up his antics though, the progressives will attach "white" to his descriptor then throw him under the bus just like they did with Zimmerman, the "white" Hispanic.
Poor presentation, but correct assessment.
The bible's contents were assembled many, many years after the alleged life of christ, at least dozens, and in some case centuries later. Some books were included, others not, by the religious hierarchy of the time.
It is ridiculous to look at the bible as "the word of god". It is the work of many men (zero women) over a very long period of time and its contents reflect the social mores of that era, which included acceptance of slavery and subjugation of women in addition to being anti-gay.
It's an interesting historical book of fables that sheds some light on the patriarchy of that time; nothing more.
You are very Biblically ignorant. I've studied it for decades now and you know nothing about it.
Poor presentation + poor facts. The Old Testament (also part of the Bible) was written many, many years before the birth of Christ. Before you comment on any book, I suggest that you read it first.
I'm curious @CRC... Is it self-study that you have partaken in? That has always proven to be the best method for crazy people without a clue to learn things... Now, if you tell me you actually have knowledge of the language it was written in, I might respect your opinion a little bit more.
@cherisea – he's only studied the covers, where his mom likely wrote the 5 most obnoxious quotes she wanted him to learn.
CRC has apparently chosen to specialize in the parts of the Bible that detail his loving God's condemnation of most of humanity to eternal torment in the flames of Hell.
A mind that far given to delusion has ceased to think except in the act of projection.. CRC is projecting his horrible feelings of hatred and anger onto his opponents, then onto atheists here, and then onto his god (judgment/hell).. Depending on how the mind shuts down at death and how a time may dilate in the presence of that phenomenon, he may have a very unpleasant last few minutes–in fact, it may seem like an eternity–perhaps a fiery one??
Guess which people mostly have "hell" near death experiences?? Angry and bitter christians.. Yep.
@Cherisea
So what you're saying is ignore self-teaching and swallow whole, as gospel, anything taught to you by someone who supposedly knows better. Do you propose the same approach for science and the pursuit of new discoveries? Tell me, where would that have gotten without Copernicus, Galilei, Kepler, Descartes, Pascal, Linnaeus, Mendel, Pasteur, et al. (all Christians by the way).
Your ignorance about learning methods is astounding and simultaneously tragic.
All sodomites should be imprisoned for the immoral behavior. All sodomite defenders should be shot.......
Gingrich should be the first
What is frightening is that people like JP are allowed to vote...and have children (YIKES!)
Most politicians should, they all indirectly support such immoral behavior through their subservience to the Jews.......
@JP-
One word for you...education.
...get some.
then we move on to catholic priests, mormons and mega church preachers who hire "companions"
It is so sadly pathetic that 'good', presumably 'religous' people like JP feel that someone else's private business is a matter that concerns them even though it affects them not in the least. JP would have made a very good bronze age believer!
Hey JP- there's a lot of sites online for people like you. Just google Snuff p orn, death f etish. Check em out. They'd fit will with your bronze-aged mentality. I bet you'd be first in line for butchering the Men, Women, Children, Pregnant Women...and Cattle of the neighboring Amalekite village that your "god" told Saul to kill in the book of Samuel.
it's amazing to me that you promote anti-bullying with a hate filled bullied speech against Christianity...
hey dan, do us all a favor..convert to islam, move to the mid east and get your head removed from your worthless and deplorable body.
Well golly Christians, thanks for not chopping his head off. You're the best.
And there we have it, the real christian solution.. Off with his head–for saying WORDS.. Sharia law, anyone?
It is obvious to me that JP is a closeted islamofascist. Give him a sword and he would be right at home in the middle east.
So, let's say for a moment you have interpreted your particular brand of holy book to say that all of the followers of said book are suppose to persecute people with red hair.
And let's suppose that someone with red hair stood up and said that it's bulls**t that this book says that you are suppose to persecute people with red hair.
Would you say that the person with red hair is directing hate speech toward the believers of this holy book? Or would it be more correct to say that this red haired person is justifiably speaking out against a hateful holy book?
Now, just replace 'holy book' with 'bible', and 'red head' with 'gay' and you have the exact same argument.
Aw, did the wittle chwistian have his feewings hurt?
LOL... they think it is OK to badmouth all other religions... but call their fairy tale off, and you get he11...
How would you prefer they respond? They are insulted so they politely leave. A rather mature response, IMO.
I guess if you want to start picking verses out of the Bible and eliminating them so you can live the way you want or how you would live if you were God and had set the whole universe up, I guess the first two verses you better eliminate are the following:
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. (Rev 22:18,19)
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. (Deut 4:2)
Otherwise, you might have some problems explaining the logic of removing those other verses.
barkleypontree.blogspot.com
To put this in context, other nearby verses close to the above in both Exodus and Leviticus suggest: executing those who work on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2), those with eyesight defects cannot approach the altar of God (Leviticus 21:20), and those who eat shellfish are 'an abomination' (Leviticus 11:10). I think we also need to stone anyone wearing one of Tommy Hilfiger's new wool an linen suits (Leviticus 19:19). Let's be realistic. Many people who call themselves religious choose to shave and sit on chairs that women who have had their period in the last seven days have been on. I guess those rules are ok to break, but the one about being gay isn't.
im sick of these jesus freakozoids!! THERE I SAID IT!! i am saved, hallelujah I witness...
So glad he apologized for the "pansy..." remark. For a moment he became what he is fighting against, a bully. Apologizing goes a long way and sets a great example for how to respond to those who you feel have bullied you. Makes sense that statistics show that many bullies are or have been bullied themselves.