 |
|
|
|
|
April 30th, 2012
12:24 PM ET
Columnist Dan Savage stands by comments on 'bulls**t in the Bible'By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Columnist and gay-rights advocate Dan Savage is standing by his comment that “we can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people” at a recent conference for high school students, a line that prompted some to walk out and spurred intense online debate. In a blog post on Sunday, Savage wrote that his remark at a conference for the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association was "being spun as an attack on Christianity. Which is bullshhh… which is untrue.” “I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised," Savage wrote. "I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against — and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying 'motivated by faith') — because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong.” Some Christian students walked out of the Seattle speech, prompting another controversial line from Savage: “It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansya**ed people react when you push back.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Savage apologized for that specific remark in Sunday’s blog post, writing that his word choice “was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong.” One of the teachers attending the speech with his students told CNN’s Carol Costello on Monday that he was taken aback by the speech and that he supported the decision of some of his students to walk out of it. “It took a real dark, hostile turn, certainly, as I saw it,” said Rick Tuttle, a teacher at Sutter Union High School in Southern California. “It became very hostile toward Christianity, to the point that many students did walk out, including some of my students.” Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “They felt that they were attacked … a very pointed, direct attack on one particular group of students. It’s amazing that we go to an anti-bullying speech and one group of students is picked on in particular, with harsh, profane language.” Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
The White House needs to desassociate itself from that bigot and his campaign while at the same time publicly repudiating his bigotry towards christians. We demand that from them.
dude – it's not "bigotry" – it's anger at the "people of faith" using their religious beliefs to discriminate against, and otherwise withhold civil rights from, gay people. I don't agree with how he did it, but challenging the discriminatory beliefs of others is fair game.
there sure are a lot of fairies commenting on this article.
and morons.
Real tough guy is Danny.
Mocking a bunch of teenagers who've left the room already.
Go practice your brand of religious "tolerance" at any local Mosque and see what it gets you.
Jerk . . .
Yes, let's pay for him to speak about his lifestyle in Iran. He should get a good reception there.
im pretty sure he wasn't mocking the teenagers, but the disgusting prejudice they were taught by christianity.
Danny is smart and you are one stupid jerk....
@John1518
since you keep telling me i'm wrong about the bible telling it's followers to murder g.a.y.s, here's the passage one last time:
@John
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
so John, care to admit you've wrong?
Well, since John 20:13 says "They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?” “They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.”.... then it is actually you who are wrong. Oops.
John1518,
You obviously were wrong about gays being murdered and wrong about gays being born that way.
DO SOME RESEARCH.
LOLOLOLOL!
John, just type in Leviticus 20:13 into Google and you'll see i am right.
HAHAHA. i just put your quote into Google. you've quoted, i guess appropriately, John 20:13, not Leviticus 20:13.
Fail harder, pls.
@Bootyfunk – you have no clue what this is all about and you never will unless you stop fighting the Creator who you keep bashing. The scripture in Leviticus that you posted pertains to the old Levitical Law. God provided the way to redemption through Christ. You have no idea what the bible is really all about so spare those who are searching for the truth or join them. You would be amazed if you really understood the God who created you and offers you the incredible opportunity to someday join Him in heaven after providing you peace here on this sin infested world.
Observer: Ok, educate me. Show me the "research" that proves people are born gay. There is none, just as there is no research that proves people are born gamblers or football players or alcoholics or Christians. These are lifestyle choices, plain and simple, so don't get all bent out of shape when people disagree with them. I don't hate gays and I am not better than a gay person (we are all sinners).
That's Old Testament law, Booty. Christians live by the New Testament. That said, I believe in God and His Son and I can tell you with complete assurance that I have no intention of harming anyone.
Re-read your orginal post – you said John 20:13. Leviticus is full of OT laws that Christians understand no longer apply to them. Again, scripture is meant to be studied and understood in context, not cherry-picked for phrases here and there.
@John
you don't have any idea what the bible says, do you?
John1518,
The CONTEXT is that you are saying that God who NEVER CHANGES, CHANGED.
Guess again.
re-read where i posted it all 3 times. they all say Leviticus, not John. i also posted the whole passage. but we're missing the ponit - you said in YOUR original post, that it didn't say that in the bible at all. now you admit it does?
@Faith Works For Me, you said:
"That's Old Testament law, Booty. Christians live by the New Testament. That said, I believe in God and His Son and I can tell you with complete assurance that I have no intention of harming anyone."
well then, you're not a very good christian. jesus himself said you cannot drop a letter from the old covenant, that the old laws are just as eternal. so you saying jesus was wrong?
also, the NT supports slavery. in numerous places. and there's a lot more evil, disgusting stuff in the NT. i agree with you that the OT is worse, but the NT is pretty terrible too. christians get embarrassed by the vileness found in the OT, so they try to distance themselves. but jesus says you can't do that...
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46
So you believe in slavery?
It comes down to this... , you wrote:
"@Bootyfunk – you have no clue what this is all about and you never will unless you stop fighting the Creator who you keep bashing. The scripture in Leviticus that you posted pertains to the old Levitical Law. God provided the way to redemption through Christ. You have no idea what the bible is really all about so spare those who are searching for the truth or join them. You would be amazed if you really understood the God who created you and offers you the incredible opportunity to someday join Him in heaven after providing you peace here on this sin infested world."
wrong. i was a christian myself, raised in a chrstian household, went to church on sundays. i've read the bible from cover to cover, with religious, historic and skeptical study guides. i've deeply considered my belief/non-belief. i decided to sever the mental shackles, to think for myself. i am an atheist and a humanist. i care deeply for my fellow man. i don't want you to be in a cult any more. it's not healthy for numerous reasons. think of your nephew joining a cult - would you be happy about it? christianity is a cult like any other.
and read what i wrote above. jesus says you can't drop the OT. also, the NT has all sorts of evil views/behavior, including supporting slavery. Humanism offers a much more logical and compassionate ethical view. i challenge you to show how christianity, with it's misogyny, h.omophobia, etc. offers a better guide to living a good life.
Someone necessarily lend a hand to make significantly articles I might state. This is the very first time I frequented your web page and thus far? I surprised with the research you made to make this particular put up amazing. Wonderful job!
Is he wearing lipstick?
Its ok to attack gays, but boy if you attack the Christians it's a crime. I wouldn't have apologized, I would have stood firm.
They're not comparable. Christianity is a terrible, evil thing that deserves to be attacked. Attacking someone for being gay is no different than racism.
So two wrongs make a right? Fighting hate with hate is ok??
Jake: Being a Christian is a chosen lifestyle. Being gay is a chosen lifestyle (so says science anyway). Being black is how you were born. Big differences.
Actually it is the opposite in recent times. Christianity is easy to attack especially by the left wing media and liberals. If you are gay and attacked you will receive the support of the media and all the attention you need. If attached as a white, conservative Christian you will be laughed at and the media will condone the attack i.e. Sarah Palin. Gays have it great in this country now! I would rather be gay and attacked then a Christian and attacked.
John1518,
Why bother quoting when you don't even know what the Bible says.
Science does NOT say being gay is a choice.
Do you do ANY RESEARCH on ANYTHING?
Do you live in an alternate universe? Because here the gay agenda is pushed with a violent fervor while Christian beliefs are attacked on a regular basis. Churches who supported traditional marriage were vandalized by the radical gays.
Those same churches have priests with a history of molesting little boys (and showing their parents pictures on a laptop), yet they dare to condemn two consenting adults? Don't look to that bible for a morality lesson!
I hate the word religious and the stereotyping that is connected to it. I'm not religious, but I do believe in God and I am a Christian and attempt to live a Christian life. However, besides the obvious, one of the things that bothers me the most about his ridiculous and uneducated claims, is that he was doing to a select group of people EXACTLY was he was accusing them of doing to the gay community – discriminating against and judging others for the life they choose live. You can't have it both ways. To those who are not versed in scripture, the Bible does not say to "hate gays" or any other people group. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The Bible teaches to hate sin, but love the sinner. We're all sinners. We're born into sin. No one is perfect. We have to be accepting of people, but we don't have to like how they live their lives. The Bible also teaches not to judge as you will also be judged. For those who don't believe in the Bible and it's place in this world, that is your choice. If you're right, then I, along with many others, will just look foolish. However, if the Bible does prove through time that it is the infallible Word of God and all of the prophecies do come to pass, I know where I will be spending eternity. How about you?
Doesn't wash, dearie. The bible directs people to refuse to treat GLBTs as equals.
That alone warrants scorn. They deserved the earfuls they got. If they don't like it, they should realize what they are doing to others is exactly equivalent. Trying to use their "good book" as an excuse for their behavior is cowardly.
Denise – these folks don't want to listen to your logic, because in their heads they already have a stereotyped view of what a Christian is, and what you said – even though it is 100% true and what we as Christiand ACTUALLY believe – blows away that stereotype, so they choose ignorance instead.
Oh, sure, John. Why don't you tell us all EXACTLY what you believe about GLBTs?
How can you say "I'm not religious" and "I am Christian", literally in the same sentence? Please explain. Christianity is a religion. If you're Christian, you are religious.
uhh, I don't think so...
To presume Heaven has a place reserved for you takes the decision away from God, and therefor reduces his all-knowing omnipotence. Don't be so quick to assume you're a "chosen" – or you'll find yourself amongst many others who you would not chose.
Tom Tom, your hatred must just eat up you inside. Good luck with your miserable existence.
I guess this guy doesn't get any free speech in Amerika, home of the cowardly christians!
He gets to speak his mind. We get to comment back. He has done honorable things by working against bullying, and hurt his cause.
You are free to say what you want, but there will be repercussions. The number gay bashing incidents will rise thanks to his hate speech.
Yea sure, everyone is a bigot who does not agree with every nut in the world. Grow up and take a good look at yourself in the mirror and you will see a fool. If you chose to be gay, that is your problem. If we chose to follow our religious beliefs, that is our problem. Expecting others to be thrilled about the choices you made is idiotic. Expecting a religion to change its writings to please your gay choices is as ridiculous as your post. Grow up!
Taunting the kids who left the room was where bullying occurred. Practice what you preach, Dan.
True!
Absolutely. I want one of the apologists to explain how doing that was morally acceptable. Even the guy who did it said it was wrong!
Rhema word to bootyfunk: Demon... in the name of Jesus! I command you to come out of this man!
but if i don't go to Hell, i'll miss all my friends. LOL.
For those who bash Christians for "not adhering to science", I wonder this: what do you think of the fact that science has never proven that there is a gay gene and thus that people are born gay?
I think it's completely irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
When you realize just how deep you've been lied to, then you'll be amazed at the tolerance we've extended your way, bigot.
Lets see millions of people telling me eye weren't born this way, slaughtered, ridiculed, treated like trash verse a book that has been rewritten over and over again...hmmmm, which seems more reliable.
I think you take an overly simplistic picture of how genetics and biology works. It's very unlikely there is a "gay gene", since the evidence would indicate "the picture isn't that easy".
Instead, "there are genetic components that predispose someone to being gay" is much more reasonable, and better supported. It's well doc-mented that among identical twins (that is, two individuals who share the exact same genes) if one of them is gay, the other is much more statistically likely to be gay than fraternal twins. HOWEVER, if there was a "gay gene", that wouldn't just be "more likely", it'd be "when one is gay, the other is always gay". That isn't what is observed, but if there was no genetic component, you'd expect the identical twins to mimic the numbers of fraternal twins, which also doesn't happen.
So clearly there is a genetic component, but that's not the whole picture. What also happens is that we've observed that younger brothers are also statistically more likely to be gay, from the whole "immune response hypothesis" where the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay.
That's even before we get into possible environmental factors, which also likely contribute in part. S-xuality is a MUCH more complex field than you seem to acknowledge, and if you're looking for a single "gay gene", it's not the fault of biologists that you're ignorant about the science. It's simply you commenting on a subject you clearly haven't bothered investing any time or effort in order to learn about. So you stick you your simplistic pokemon-like understanding of genetics, and blame that on everyone else?
You should be ashamed for promoting your own ignorance as though it forms a cogent argument.
Please show me the "good at sports" gene, the "doctor" gene, the "good at cooking" gene, the "good with your hands" gene, etc, etc... There is no scientific evidence those exist. Do you know why? cause they are complex traits in which a "gene" doesn't explain. You first need to understand biology before you understand that someone can be born gay. Just like someone can be born straight...Just like someone can be born ugly or born beautiful...Its complex and not due to "a gene.":
Ridiculous, typical argument.
Is there a gene for stupid? Idiot
Is there a straight gene that proves people were born straight? Perhaps we all are born gay, naturally, but we choose to be straight? There's a pretty strong argument against that theory, although I don't think you'll like it...it's called evolution.
Right, so just like I said, ZERO proof that people are "born gay". Someone could be predisposed to be a gambler while someone else could walk thru a casino with absolutely no temptation to gamble whatsoever. My point is that because they are not born that way, it is ok to disagree with their chosen lifestyle. Not ok to call names, bully, hate, etc. But it is ok to disagree.
you rock, andrew
John1518,
Millions of gays say you are clueless. What are your credentials as a mind-reader to know they are all lying?
Except being gay isn't a "temptation", it's a s-xuality. If you're predisposed to a s-xuality from birth, then you didn't choose to have that s-xuality, you were born that way.
Consider if you will that you have genes that predispose you to a specific type of childhood cancer, and have an identical twin. Now, from some random fluke, your mother's antibodies trigger the childhood cancer causing gene in one of the twins, and the other twin with the predisposition is lucky enough to avoid it. Then two identical twins are born, one with caner, one without.
Is then the argument "you choose to get cancer from the moment you were born because you were only predisposed to it?" No, it's "a predisposition means you are likely to have the condition, but that doesn't exclusively mandate you will".
No one chooses their s-xuality. No one wakes up one morning saying "I want to be ridiculed for who I find attractive". There are certain genetic factors that contribute, but there's no golden cause, there's no ubiquitous source, and that's precisely why my analogy was using cancer, because "cancer" doesn't have a single cause, there is no "cancer gene", and yes, there have been babies born with cancer. The picture is far more complex, and the lack of a single gene, but rather a predisposition, means that while some people will be born gay, others won't, and that you'll never be able to identify a single cause.
Quit trying to put things in nice simple convenient boxes, biology doesn't work that way.
You're right John, why wouldn't someone choose to be gay. It's a magical life of prowess where they are regarded highly and praised endlessly. How do I know it's not a choice? Because I am gay. Let me assure you, I know more about who I am then a book or any religion.
What an angry person, more than a bully. Why is that horrible person even allowed to speak in a place with a captive audience of high schoolerers ?
Yeah! Why let him say something that might just be the catalyst for some depressed and scared high school kid to start feeling better than the nasty kids at his school want him to! Best to just let him commit suicide, right?
You're not fooling ANYONE with your facile, infantile attempt to turn the use of the word 'bully' back around on the people who are really fighting bullying.
No kidding. That will be the last time he is allowed to talk to students.
christians sure hate to have their prejudicial, archaic views pointed out.
Funny that the right to freedom of religion (which I fully support) seems to be interpreted to mean freedom to shove a particular religion down everyone else's throat. Any disagreement is viewed as heresy. And don't dare build a Muslim rec center in NYC. The founding fathers only meant freedom of specific Christian religions. Not.
Dan's hate speech will result in gay's being ostracized more than ever. It may even result in violence towards some. It was very stupid to do that to the people he is supposed to represent.
I could be wrong, but isn't part of being a Christian being loving and accepting of everyone? Didn't Jesus love even those who didn't stand by him? I'm not very bible savvy, but I think the central idea behind Christianity is loving everybody which is why I don't understand why there is so much of a problem with some Christians hating gays in the first place. It is also why I don't understand why so many of the comments here are so spiteful.
Amen.
"I could be wrong, but isn't part of being a Christian being loving and accepting of everyone?"
unfortunately, you are wrong. the bible has God ordering genocides (when he's not performing them himself.) the bible says to kill g.a.y.s, non-virgin brides and disobedient children. it approves of slavery. the list goes on.
Christians do NOT "hate gays". Anyone who does and claims to be a Christian is NOT practicing real Christianity.
I actually think all of the things you have listed, bootyfunk, come from the old testament, which, if I am correct, Jesus fullfilled when he died on the cross. This does not abolish the old testament, of course, but since it was fulfilled, the new testament laws are the ones that Christians follow, which include loving everyone. I think.
John, that was my point.
Booty Funk why are you spending so much time on this when there is so many hairy ones to gobble? You will always hate yourself deep down inside because you are not a real man. You are the typical angry chip on the shoulder poofter. How can you seek respect with a load in the backside and a glob on the chin? You are abnormal my friend. Accept it. You are a freak of nature. God or no God you go against the natural order. You are nature's natural abortion.
The only deficient one here is YOU, you cretin.
I am laughing because i am in the Joy of the Spirit!...."Who the Son has set free .. is free indeed!" The things of the Spirit are foolishness to those that are perishing"...who are in the World and carnal in their nature... which is the Flesh:'
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless"..... Democrats! LOL Aint it the truth!
uh oh, someone climbed over the wall at the asylum again...
"For the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Exodus 34:14.
"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious...jealousy." Gal. 5:19-20
Or if you prefer ridiculousness to self-contradiction: "If a woman does not cover her head, she should shave her hair off." First Corinthians, 11:6. Are you a woman? Do you keep your hair covered? If you're a man, do you insist your wife shave off her hair? Then you're a sinner.
How about shellfish, or figs? God called both "an abomination", so if you're going around hating anyone – including gays and/or Democrats, and if you've ever eaten shellfish or a fig, then you're a hypocrite, and like all false Christians who go around hating people in the name of God, you are really, really missing the point of your own religion. Read your Bible, and don't just cherrypick the passages that make you feel pleasantly superior to others, about whom you know absolutely bupkus.
Amen!!!
The whole discussion here is science vs. religion:
Science is about questions that should be answered!
Religion is about answers that should not be questioned!
Marv, you're on the wrong page. Try again.
“It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansya**ed people react when you push back.” How can this guy be an "anti-bully" advocate with language like that? That is the definition of bullying. And people on here are defending him, which leads me to one conclusion about our society – everything is morally acceptable just as long as it agrees with MY worldview, but if it doesn't, then it is wrong.
You are exactly right.
The so-called Christian students fleeing the auditorium is the definition of "not facing the truth"–not the definition of bullying. If this was bullying, they ought to walk in gay students shoes for a day and know what bullying is.
Nope. Those who've been bullied by the likes of the extremists in the Christian camp just enjoy seeing your lot get a taste of the same gall and wormwood, dude.
So if I call a gay person names and demean everything they believe in before a crowd of their peers, and if they walk away, then they are "not facing the truth" by your twisted liberal logic.
If you think saying something some people take offense to is bullying, then you have absolutely no idea what bullying is.
You know, there's been at least a dozen posts about this being "persecution," and about a hundred or so saying this was "bullying," and I just have to keep pointing out what should be absolutely fvcking obvious which is that a guy said words on a stage and some people didn't like those words and they walked out..
Seriously, where in the fvck is there any "persecution" or "bullying?". One of my kids was bullied.. I know what it is.. It's pretty fvcking obvious that there was no "bullying,".. Some people got uncomfortable with each others views; that's it.
Bull**** about JUST gays? Shoot...that whole book is bull****.
Much of the Bible is bulshit.
Looks like this pansy was taking it under the mustache when he gobbled the goo!
So now the world sees the kind of things on your mind.
"pansy" is so '60s. How old are you, you fool?
Why are supposed heteros so OBSESSED with what gays do?