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My Take: On gay marriage, Obama, Billy Graham, and a tale of 2 Christianities
President Obama cited his Christianity in explaining his support for gay marriage.
May 10th, 2012
11:41 AM ET

My Take: On gay marriage, Obama, Billy Graham, and a tale of 2 Christianities

Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.

By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN

Not so long ago and not so far away, the culture wars stuck to a simple script.

On questions such as abortion, the Republicans would denounce the Democrats for preaching a "secular agenda." The Democrats would denounce the GOP for injecting religion into politics. Then, because the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God, the Republicans would usually win.

Things today are more confusing, and more interesting.

After John Kerry’s defeat at the hands of George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election, the Democrats got religion. Nowadays they too present their public policy positions in moral and often biblical terms, describing the question of taxes, for example, as a matter of “fairness” and in some cases quoting from the Gospel of Luke (“Blessed are the poor.”)

Nowhere is this shift more stark than on the gay marriage debate. In a week that saw North Carolinians inject a gay marriage ban into their Constitution, the nation’s most celebrated preacher and the nation's most celebrated politician weighed in—as Christians.

In full-page ads in North Carolina newspapers, Billy Graham said, “The Bible is clear—God’s definition of marriage is between a man and a woman." In an interview yesterday with ABC’s Robin Roberts, President Obama said that when he and the First Lady “think about our faith, the thing at root that we think about is not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it’s also the Golden Rule, you know, treat others the way you would want to be treated.”

Both men ignored facts that did not support their cases. Graham did not mention the many cases of polygamy in the Christian Bible. And Obama ignored the many cases in which homosexuality (particularly male homosexuality) is denounced.

Two things are striking about this debate. The first is that both sides are now conducting it in religious terms. Whereas the GOP in prior culture wars was able to denounce the Democratic Party for pushing a “secular agenda,” now it is in the much more difficult position of claiming (as Rick Santorum did of Obama) that the left is preaching a “phony theology.”

Second, it is striking how closely this debate mirrors the slavery debate in antebellum America. Then, pro-slavery forces read key passages in the Bible in a "commonsense" manner and concluded that God was in favor of slavery. Meanwhile, anti-slavery activists, seeking after the "spirit" rather than the "letter" of the Biblical text, concluded that slavery flew in the face of both "love your neighbor" and the Golden Rule.

As Mark Noll argues in his book America’s God, the fact that the Bible seemed to most "commonsense" readers to support slavery brought on a crisis of authority that helped to produce what we now liberal Protestantism. Many American Christians at the time just knew slavery was wrong, so they learned to read the Bible in a different way.

We may be at a similar inflection point today. If you take a literal approach to the Biblical books and focus only at passages on sexuality, the Bible seems to support Graham. But if you focus on its broader message of love, it casts its vote for Obama.

As with slavery in the nineteenth century, public opinion in the twenty-first century is shifting rapidly on the gay marriage question, and not only among secular types. Billy Graham and other evangelicals who continue to insist that “the Bible is clear” in its opposition to gay marriage would do well to heed the lessons of America's most costly conflagration over race.

As they preach what they see as the "clear" meaning of scripture, they are not only swimming against the tide of history. They are putting their own religious tradition at risk.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.

- CNN Belief Blog contributor

Filed under: Bible • Billy Graham • Christianity • Culture wars • Gay marriage • Homosexuality • Politics • Same-sex marriage • United States

soundoff (641 Responses)
  1. Robert Brown

    Bob,
    Under the law, the consequences for sin or payment for sin required a blood sacrifice. Either a designated animal or the sinner, as the case may be. Under the new covenant brought about by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, his blood paid it all. It pays for the sin today, yesterday, and forever for the believer. For example, adultery was a sin punishable by death, but Jesus told the people if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. The point is that the flesh is sinful by nature whether in thought or deed. No one is good. We all need forgiveness.

    May 10, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      HEY ROBERT BROWN! I HOPE I AM SAYING THIS LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU TO HEAR! GO F*UCK YOURSLEF!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      YOURSELF AND YOURSLEF!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Bob

      Robert Brown, nope, you don't even read your own book of horrors, the bible very well. Therein it is clearly stated that Jesus said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions, so that means sacrifice is still on. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is. You seem not to.

      Let's look again at some of the horrid instructions from bible god:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
  2. Voice of Reason

    Your god is a liar, proven by its own words.

    May 10, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
  3. Dennis

    What Bob said. Right on, Bob.

    May 10, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
  4. raceisamyth

    Guitar-26 years. Bass-21 years. piano-12 years. Acoustic drum kit-10 years. Vocals-26 years. Mandolin-9 years. Fiddle-12 years. Slide guitar-9 years. I shred. I play scar symmetry solos with one hand. You were saying tom tom boy?

    May 10, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      As I said, bozo, I'm Queen Elizabeth II. Prove otherwise.

      I'll do the same for your claims as soon as you do.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Youre a rothschild? Holy crap youre evil

      May 10, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Odd that you're so accomplished but can't manage to reply to a post in the right place. Hmmm. Guess you're just another stupid troll. Try notating a passing 6 4 chord sometime, honey. Then stick it up your phony little anus.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      No prob. Doing it now hahaha! Now go try some 32nd notes on a single bass pedal, your highness rothschild.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • I call BS

      Weren't you just leaving, raceisamyth? You said so quite a while back. Are you a liar? If so, why should anyone trust you to interpret the word of God?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Uh-huh. You couldn't operate a MIDI if your life depended on it, you dimwit.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Midi pfffft why would i want to play fake music

      May 10, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • I call BS

      Ever use noteflight, race? I'd love to see your holy compositions. Do share, sweetie.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • I call BS

      As if you play real music. Puhleeze. You're a fraud. You've never played a thing in your life.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • mandarax

      Yngwie Malmsteen called. He said raceisamyth is a hack. He said he was still trying to lay down C.C. DeVille solos note-for-note.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
  5. Bob

    Robert Brown, while you are spewing those bible quotes and similar filth at us, don't forget some of the other good stuff that your "loving god" demands of us in your book of horrors bible. Fine stuff like this:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it, and is so susceptible to being taken "out of context". Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself there.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    May 10, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • HisSlave

      Bob,
      Numbers 31:17-18
      Sure I will take this on. When the Isrealites reached the promised land, they had to cleanse it of the indigenous heathen people. Who are you to place your judgement above God's? Anyway, so if they spared the adult people, obviously the people would revolt on them and also infect God's people with their pagan beliefs. You may say that is unjust, but you are not God. The young females are the most likely group to accept assimilation, so they could take them as daughters or servants. Servants in this culture where not the same as slaves in America. If they had spared the people there would have surely been future revolt. God's will was to establish his people.

      Deuteronomy 13:6
      Sedition could not be accepted at any cost during this critical time of establishment.

      Ritual sacrifice was for the benefit of the Isrealites, as an atoning for sin, God provided a way that they could understand to reconcile themselves to him, God does not need humans.

      What Jesus did was provide the sacrifice of himself (God providing universal atonement for his people) Just like God provided the sacrificial animal when he tested Abraham's faith by ordering him to sacrifice his son Issac. God, seeing that Abraham's obedience was absolute, stopped Abraham from following through, and instead provided his own animal for the sacrifice.

      As far as clear communication, keep in mind that your own interpretation is skewed becase of your own bias. You are reading the word with a mind with its own temporal vernacular, and the way we see things today is different from how these events would have been interpreted then and indeed for over a thousand years. I would argue that our modern society has become so jaded that it is easy to see some situations and assume a much more sordid picture.

      The Bible is not a work of modern art, it is what the Jews called a "living text" You have to ask God to soften your hardened heart and remove the scales from your eyes in a sincere plea for him to reveal himself. It requires humility and an acknolegement that you need him and want to trully know him.

      Anything else on your mind?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • Bob

      HisSlave, wow, quite the set of nonsense that you are enslaved by.

      Look, seriously, go back and think about your "answers". You just admitted that your god advocated, even demanded, rape and murder, and was responsible for genocide. And demanded animal sacrifices. If you aren't horrified by that, well, you should be.

      You apparently think differently, but to me, there is no excuse, none whatsover, for such violations of human rights and dignities. No, not by your (non-existent) sky fairy, and not by any other being.

      In simpler terms that you should also understand, you just also admitted that your god is a violent, vicious asshole. That term really fits such a creature.

      So, no thanks. You can keep your silly myths and your asshole of a god to yourself. Quietly, please, and forever onward.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • HisSlave

      God never condoned r-a-p-e, that is your twisted mind interpreting that. I explained the sacrifices.

      It strikes me as hypocritical that you question God's judgment with your limited knowledge and perception, but then you advocate a woman's choice to stab a spike in her and the father's own unborn flesh and blood because it isn't a good time right now for her to face the consequences of her own sin! 55 million aborted children and there is no problem according to YOUR judgment. Can you see your own hypocrisy? Man has slaughtered each other for greed ever since Cain and Able, but a man is going to question God's judgement, can you not see the arrogance and vanity neccessary for your point of view?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • Binky is wrong

      Boo hoo. You don't approve of abortion? Too dam2 bad. You aren't the one who's pregnant. Nobody cares about your opinion on the matter.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • HisSlave

      //God never condoned r-a-p-e, that is your twisted mind interpreting that. I explained the sacrifices.

      It strikes me as hypocritical that you question God's judgment with your limited knowledge and perception, but then you advocate a woman's choice to stab a spike in her and the father's own unborn flesh and blood because it isn't a good time right now for her to face the consequences of her own sin! 55 million ab-ort-ed children and there is no problem according to YOUR judgment. Can you see your own hypocrisy? Man has slaughtered each other for greed ever since Cain and Able, but a man is going to question God's judgement? Can you not see the arrogance and vanity neccessary for your point of view?//

      May 10, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @HisSlave

      Whether you agree or not doesn't matter, it is not your choice. If you believe it is sin, then you need to leave that up to your god, and not attempt to judge other people. Take care of yourself, and do not attempt to force your morality on other people.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • Bob

      No, HisSlave, you are denying quotes that are directly in front of you. Read again. Here is your god according to your nasty bible demanding murder and other horrors very explicitly:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      And that's from a "loving" god that will threaten and punish you with torture forever if you so much as doubt his existence or think a different god exists. Seriously, such a god really would be an asshole.

      Any modern human court would consider such punishment barbaric, to say the least. And the threats of torture purportedly by your god would consti-tute criminal assault. That's one very nasty and horrid god that you've made for yourself there.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • HisSlave

      VoiceOfReason,
      No, I am not kidding, that is what you are whether you know it or not. You think that you know all about this existence and with your narrow view, you lead people to reason that they do not need God, in effect you are leading them to either hell, or oblivion. You use arguments based on your limited perception of this existence, you are arrogant in your presumptions. You submit that humans are merely advanced primates but yet you presume to know all of reality with an advanced primate's flesh mind! I believe that you just really want what you want and no other consideration is made. You choose to reject God because of some desire of this world that is not condoned by God, so you just reject Him.

      Since you are so all-knowing and reject the preposterous idea of God, tell me what is smaller than a quark? What is outside of the universe?

      What if we are in a petri dish called the universe? what if God can exist in any and all matter inside the folded dimensions of string theory? Would you really be so arrogant and trusting of your own perception to say God doesn't exist?

      May 10, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • HisSlave

      //God never condoned r*a-p-e, that is your twi-st-ed mind interpreting that. I explained the sacrifices.

      It strikes me as hypocritical that you question God's judgment with your limited knowledge and perception, but then you advocate a woman's choice to st-ab a spike in her and the father's own unborn flesh and blood because it isn't a good time right now for her to face the consequences of her own sin! 55 million ab-o-rt-ed children and there is no problem according to YOUR judgment. Can you see your own hypocrisy? Man has slaug-htered each other for greed ever since Cain and Able, but a man is going to question God's judgement? Can you not see the arrogance and vanity neccessary for your point of view?//

      May 10, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • HisSlave

      Sorry for all the multiple posts, the word-filter is a B.

      You say I shouldn't impose my morals on other people, but that is exactly what you are doing on this board! You say that heteros lose nothing by legalizing SSM, but I submit to you that changing the meaning of marriage makes it void.

      If a wedding ring signifies that two males are bun-g-holing each other, or that 3 or more people are having mini-or-gy-s then a man and woman seeking Holy-Matrimony can not wear them!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:29 pm |
    • Bob

      Ah, HisSlave, the old "you can't understand the ways of god" dodge. Nice try, but we know that one. First, you are clearly effectively claiming that you do understand the ways of your god.

      Now, again, the case that I am making is a very clear, well defined one, even if you lack the courage to acknowledge it. Let's look again at what your nasty sky fairy is presented in your bible as demanding; murder, even genocide, plus torture and animal sacrifice, among other horrors. Those are not the demands of a loving creature. Face what your book of nasty fictions AKA the bible really says:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Now, since you keep spewing about your bible, note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 10:29 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @HisSlave

      And how exactly would the transition cause the meaning of marriage to be changed? You having a definition of marriage that conflicts with someone else's doesn't make yours automatically right, and neither does your belief system make it correct either. A wedding ring signifies eternity, and traces its use back before christianity (although not in a finger ring form always) so your points are irrelevant.
      Your stereotype of org.ies is ignorant idiocy, and holy matrimony is not a synonym for marriage, no matter how much you may want it to be.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
  6. Sam Yaza

    marriage is a religious issue so let's keep it that way if to gay christian men want to get married they can't. if two Gaian, Shinto, Wiccan, Athenian or any pagan men want to get married let them, this to for atheist the government cannot mandate thesebeliefs. all they can do is see that every one is treated equally and pass out the marriage licenses and benefits

    keep your religion to your self

    May 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • Sue

      good one Sam Y.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • HisSlave

      I have no problem with that Sam, but when someone attacks my faith I shall surely defend it. There is a war on currently between the "New Atheists" and Christians for the mind and sould of our Children and indeed for the culture of our society in the USA. I will not stand by and watch false shepherds lead them into a life of self depravity. I want to have a culture that is decent to raise children in for the future generations. I see the mask that hides the snake and I endevour to expose it.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • Bob

      Speaking of snakes, HisSlave, how are your talking snakes and your other bible fairy tales treating you today? And what animal did you sacrifice today for your vicious, needy sky creature? Let's review again some of the fine demands that your "loving" god has purportedly made, according to your book of horrors AKA the bible:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @HisSlave said:

      "I will not stand by and watch false shepherds"

      You are kidding, right?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Binky is wrong

      What is it you don't grasp, moron? You aren't in charge of anyone else's uterus. Tough toenails if you and your God don't like it. Nobody gives a ripe sh!t. You don't get to decide what others do with their bodies or the contents of them. The law of this country DOES. Don't like it? Too farking bad. Move.

      Or wear a Goddam@ rubber.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      "Tough toenails"

      You gotta love that one!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • Binky is wrong

      Thank you. I grew it myself. ;>)

      May 10, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Binky is wrong

      You are a funny human, thanks!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • HisSlave

      Have a nice night everyone. This board makes it difficult to post because of the word-filter. Bob, I answered your points, of course no one could ever satisfy someone with a closed mind.

      As for the other peeps on here that think mu-rde-ring babys is a wo-man's right I will pray for you tonight, I know you do not care and I am stupid, thats OK I am humble, I will be your huckleberry.

      To whatever advanced primate said that my testimony doesn't matter, well, maybe not to you but not everyone has a hardened heart such as yours so you are very possibly incorrect.

      To the Advanced primate that said he experienced joy from rejecting God, well, maybe that is your role to play.

      I was suprised at the amount of Ad Hominems in here tonight, I would expect better from people so enlightened.

      Just wanted to say that I see through the "New Atheist" movement and will expose it for the self serving worldly Idiolegy it is.

      Doesn't look like your agenda is going quite as planned, I and my brothers in the Lord will be around to call you on it.

      Rock hard-Ride Free!

      May 10, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      yo Slave

      no one attacking the christian faith its called fighting back we are through taking you sh.it, especially the pagan community america was founded by Christians, Atheist, and Wiccans get over it the only ones that are saying ho.mose.xuality is evil is Jews, Christians and Muslims. you all pray to the same lying God who like to take credit for others works. wo damn you just for exsisting, your god is an evil genocidle tyrant and were though playing nice-e-nice, we did not start your holy wars, your spirit war be we will not pass from "Gaia" or convert to your monster, the goddess is returning, get used to it.

      time to get Free

      May 11, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
  7. raceisamyth

    There is only 1 creator. Yaweh. Fact. Argument over.

    May 10, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      The original mormans were nothing more than pilgrim christians that learned the language and culture of the American Indian tribes. They found out they worshiped the same God. American Indians are known as the 7th tribe and they called God, Yaweh...which means Spirit.

      May 10, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      my creator is Gaia and um yahweh was born about 6000 years ago from Baal and Asherah means my goddess came first with the claim

      May 10, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      U must follow the tri pharoah religions of Is(Ices)RA(sun god)El(egypti son god). Thank you

      May 10, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Yaweh wasnt born. Yaweh always has been, and always will be.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      The Hopi people talked about Yaweh over 10,000 years ago. You do realize the oldest cave drawings are 14000 yr old and in Bavaria?

      May 10, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      You cant cause me to stumble with your earth worship. U can worship dirt, ill worship the Spirit that made the dirt you wordship.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's not a "fact", you moron. It's just what you believe.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      I know it. No reason for belief.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      time to study about his real name Demiurge trus my if any one knows his real name its me,...-שמיחזה♥

      May 10, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Gods name is not needed Sam. It is lost to sooo many before us....and sooo many after us. Once again with heavenly magic tricks.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, there isn't any reason for belief. There's no reasoning involved either, as your posts clearly show.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Crazy horse refused the white man written words...you have to live by the Spirit....not by the Roman language and false reason. Thats callled mind worship.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How would you know? You don't have a mind.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      the fact is the ancient simits worshiped asherah and baal before the though of yahweh even came in their heads the need yahweh to become valiant conquerors so they thought up a god if pure justices and absolute obedience in order to cognitively dissonant themselves form becoming murderers of their own people

      May 10, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      cultural psychology fun kids

      May 10, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      No Tom I do. i just put God first. The pagans were so easy to convert with true Judism....which is the American Indians religion. The people you reference, the slavers from Spain, holland and England are still fooling you and hiding behind Judism to this day.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're an idiot.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Ok sir. You have a wonderful day. love

      May 10, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Moron, look up "Judism". There isn't any such word, you ninny. It's "JUDAISM".

      You idiots are just too ridiculous. You're your own worst enemies.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Thanks for judging. Goodbye

      May 10, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, yeah, because you NEVER do that, do you, your hypocritical dumbbell?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • Snow

      You are a Troll, race.. and a thumping bad one at that!

      May 10, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      I love ya.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Geez, Snow, is this dweeb for real?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Study the tri religions of IS RA and EL. Itll help open your eyes.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • mandarax

      raceisamyth, you just totally make stuff up, huh? The Hopi didn't exist 10,000 years ago, and even if they did, how we know what anyone said? Yaweh is not a Native American word. Cave paintings are twice as old as you claim and the earliest ones are not in Bavaria. You are completely full of it.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      No i am not. And i refuse to argue. Love. Go ahead i know how bad you must have the last word. So ill let you have it. goodbye

      May 10, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, sweetie, my eyes were opened a long time ago to dimwits like you. You're a dime a dozen. Each of you is dumber than the next.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hmmm. Didn't you say "goodbye" a few posts ago? Did you forget? Drunk? Or just stupid?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      History was meant to be passed down from parents to children...not by books that can easily be altered. I know my peoples history.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You don't know sh!t from shinola.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      I know youre tom the piper trying to lead people off a cliff. Thats obvious.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Snow

      oh you know your thousands of years of history? can you even name who your ancestor was in as recent as late 18th century? thats like just a few generations ago.. I bet 20 bucks that you can't.. But you are an expert in ancient history? 🙂 really?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Idiot, that was the Pied Piper of Hamlin.

      God, you're stupid. Does it hurt to be this dumb?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • truthbetold

      I am new to this blog...... Does it always get this heated?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Why dont you try making a tree of all your mothers and fathers. Dont use names, just place holders for them. Now try guessing their color, religion, or political affiliations....youll notice something....you cant. Changing names has been a common practice if the slave trade for centuries. You take your name from the land.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sweetcheeks, my family tree has been traced back to 14th century France. I could be a member of the DAR if I chose.

      Get off it, ya phony.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Really? You know your mothers fathers mothers mothers fathers mothers name? I guatantee you dont sir. You are only tracing your fathers bloodline son.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. You are wrong. I know BOTH lines–mother's and father's, thanks to an uncle who is an avid genealogist. Too bad you don't have one of those, dear.

      Didn't you say "goodbye" a few posts ago? Whatsamatter? Can't seem to surrender when you're trounced?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      No im humble. And my heart is not heavy. Im sure you know the kkk used to be good, the south used to be free, and America had black slave owners. if you dont know about this...then your observations of history are wrong. Do you know the banjo is from africa? Prob not. your french father must have forgot to tell you.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, big disappointment for you, honey. I'm a musician and am well aware the banjo originated in Africa. Checkmate, moron.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • HisSlave

      raceisamyth,
      I will have to research what you have mentioned about the American Indians. Funny because I always thought that the pilgrims should have assimilated at least their culute instead of vise-versa

      Tom, you are the one sounding like an idiot with your ad hominems. I cannot call you a fool because that in itself is error of the Spirit.

      Just sayin do you have anything further to add that is not personal attacks?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, however WILL I recover from your disapproval???

      Get a clue, ya goober. You're as dumb as race.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Thats great. I play 7 different instruments myself. youre playing chess by yourself

      May 10, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, just a little advice, His Idiot, it's "vice versa". No tools are involved.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure, you do. And I'm Queen Elizabeth II. Come on up to Buckingham Palace and let the guards know I approved your entry.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How many posts have you pooped out since you said "goodbye", honey? Are you lying about leaving, too? How can anyone miss your stellar intellectual contributions if you never leave?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How much you bet race plays the skin flute?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
  8. Robert Brown

    Regardless of what you call sin, we are all sinners. Thank God for Jesus.
    Romans 3: 21 – 28, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    May 10, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Yes this is truth....but let me point out 2 more scriptures for you-1 curse the jews and you WILL be cursed.-2"why do you call me good? No one is good but God" Yeshua (Jesus).

      May 10, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      It is by grace you are saved. Yeshua did not die in vain. He died for holyman and thief alike. We underestimate Gods love by thinking we can do magic tricks to please God. Love is, and will always be the true gospel.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Bob

      Robert Brown, while you are spewing out those bible quotes and similar filth, don't forget some of the other good stuff that your "loving god" demands of us in your book of horrors bible. Fine stuff like this:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it, and is so susceptible to being taken "out of context". Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself there.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • raceisamyth

      Its ok. God loves this misinformed person just as much as God loves all her children.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Bob

      Oh, those "misinformed" people, quoting the embarrassing (to Christians) nasty bits in the bible exactly. How dare they? Well, we dare, you coward. Again:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Now, since you keep spewing about your bible, note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Snow

      An immortal god, who died.. Umm, ok. logic goes out the window on that.. but hey, couple of questions if it was true.
      – what sort of immortal god would die?
      – Since he wouldn't die anyway (being immortal and all), what would a bit of hanging by a cross cause? bit of itch?
      – Since he wouldn't die on the cross, whats the point of the farce of acting death? deceiving sheep?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If God love misinformed people, race, you must be one of his favorites.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • fred

      Snow
      Just in case you are serious Jesus had to die because the penalty for sin is death. The death was the death of innocence and purity that was with God in the Garden in the beginning. Jesus died when he took on the sin of man as is the requirement. Christ felt the complete void of meaning and existence without God. Christ had never been separate from God since time eternal. This is the death, that eternal separation from God. When Christ died he died for us by taking on that eternal separation “my God my God why hast thou forsaken me” and felt it in full. It was not a farce.
      I understand you do not like the Bible story but it is the story of God redeeming a people for Himself. You would like to write it differently so go ahead and write your own story.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • HisSlave

      Bob,
      I explained all of your non-conundrums in the post above.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • HisSlave

      Fred,
      Innocence and purity are the opposite of what the "New Atheists" want, and I would even venture to say non-repentent Ho-mo-se-xu-ls. I believe their agenda is to remove those concepts from the human mind. Like snarling wolves ready to sup on the innocence, purity and especially the flesh of us and our children. They are puppets of Satan rationalizing their own lusts and desires. I think the Tool song "Sober" summarizes their plight nicely, they reject God against their own conscious because they "Want what they want" Just like Satan in his arrogance and vanity believed his rightfull place above God.
      But they will find their resultant experience empty, twisted and full of regret and sorrow, because ultimatly the truth is, we need God, and he does not need us.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why should hom0s3xuals repent, you moron?

      May 10, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • Bob

      HisSlave, no, you just revealed more of the nonsense that you believe in.

      Read my post, and think again. You are getting out of your depth. The bible is very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes your sicko Christian sky fairy happy.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations, and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 10, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
  9. REPENT

    "But if you focus on its broader message of love, it casts its vote for Obama." = FALSE!

    The Bible cannot be used to support or condone gay "marriage"

    May 10, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      I agree with you completely Repent. The Bible can never be used to justify sin!

      May 10, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • sam

      I can't decide which of you is the sillier knee-jerking idiot, so I'll have to flip a coin and get back to you.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Snow

      So, could you show where in the NT it says that it is sin?

      May 10, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
  10. intel

    Does the average American know that Mormons believe they are descendants of space travellers? For real?

    May 10, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
  11. John Stefanyszyn

    What is the primary core belief and way of life of Americans and mankind?...the desire for freedom and equality of self-right.
    This is the "god of fortresses" that the prophet Daniel spoke of.
    This is the image of the last beast that the apostle John saw.
    This is the mark on the forehead that man has willingly received.

    Man has placed this "god" above the One True Creator God and His Son the Christ.
    Man has placed this way of life before and above the True Way that Christ taught, lived, died for, and was resurrected for.

    For all the "religiously Christian"and "religiously non christian".....there is only one path in life for all...
    ....physical existence....physical death.....and resurrection to judgement by the One and Only Creator God.

    As God has said to man..."what you have in YOUR MIND will never be, and I (the Creator Father) will rule."

    May 10, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Can I just say your awesome!

      May 10, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • just sayin

      First Rebel sounds like you want to cradle his b@lls and blow hot warm air on them. Get off his tip bro.
      .
      Second he is basing his statement on writings of men. You have to take that with a grain of salt.

      May 10, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
  12. Lolz

    It's amazing what laughable nonsense people will believe if it's been drummed into them for ten or twenty centuries by fire, the sword, torture, imprisonment, disenfranchisement, ostracism, etc.................

    May 10, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • W247

      ..society, public schools, the media, big business, corporations...

      May 10, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      and it's also funny when people who have never been to church, never have participated in worship ,and never even believed in a God will just turn to him. The truth is Jesus changes lifes for the good!!!

      May 10, 2012 at 6:35 pm |
    • just sayin

      People suddenly turn to many things for different reasons

      May 10, 2012 at 6:37 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Dude Iv'e seen some of the most blasphemous people, and so opposed to God it's not even funny turn to God! The reason is simple. When you turn to Jesus he changes your life!!

      May 10, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "When you turn to Jesus he changes your life!!"

      but it won't make a gay person straight. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      May 10, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      "and it's also funny when people who have never been to church, never have participated in worship ,and never even believed in a God will just turn to him."

      What? Where do you get that idea? A great number of non-believers grew up going to church and participated in worship. The difference is that instead of just listening to what was preached to us from the pulpit and accepting it as truth, we read the buybull and realized how it holds no credence in today's society. We were strong enough to break free from the Bubble and strong enough to admit that we really can't possibly expect to ever have the answers but that life was more precious due to the adventure we have allowed ourselves to go on while discovering new information. We take advantage of our lives because we believe, due to lack of evidence to state otherwise, that this is the only life we have.

      May 10, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • HisSlave

      YeaRight,
      You deny the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can change people instantly. I was changed instantly. I used to think like an atheist, I always believed there was a God, but didn't bother to know him until I needed him. I hated everyone and myself in this world because I could see only the evil in people and this increasingly sickening society. My reason and logic failed to clarify an obvious set of thought that lead to destruction and suffering. I submited everything to Jesus, with no reservation for this life or my will. When I fully submitted, a rush of joy I cannot put into words came over me as I envisioned what heaven is like. Everything was alive, the air, the grass, everything. At the moment of Amazing Grace I was instantly changed and relieved of the thought pattern than made me hate my self and everyone and everything. My issue was no different than what gays go through. Nothing is to great for God's power, but you have to trully repent (desire to change) from your evil. That is my reality, and the reality of millions of Christians

      May 10, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • I call BS

      Your "reality"? As if you matter. Get a clue, Cletus. You aren't the barometer here. No one cares about your personal testimony. You aren't important to anyone but yourself and your mommy.

      People don't need you or your advice. They're perfectly capable of deciding what is right for them. If you don't want THEM controlling YOUR stupid little life, stop pretending you have ANY right to control theirs. Get off your throne.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @HisSlave

      I felt the same rush, funny you mention it, when I knew there was no god, never was, never will be.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      HisSlave

      Don't even worry about them. They get mad anytime someone feels the joy of the lord. It makes them angry for some dumb reason! Probably because they want the joy that we have!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, little dorp, that MUST be it.

      It couldn't POSSIBLY be that you are idiots, could it? Nah. You're all brilliant, accomplished, educated folks, right?

      You just CHOOSE to write like high school drop-outs. It's all a clever ploy. (Odds are that Rebel will have to go look up the word "ploy" in his picture dictionary.)

      May 10, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Hey Tom why are you such a jerk to christians?

      You literally just proved my point!

      I suck apparently on righting bad rebel I dumb!!!(hmmm SarcasmHMMM)

      May 10, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, RUBE, oops, Rebel, how come you're such a jerk to everyone who doesn't believe as you do?

      May 10, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Why does it matter if i'm a jerk? according to you since there is no God and we are all animals then me being a jerk to you is just one animal snarling at another!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      THe fact that you're a complete moron makes anyone with two functioning brain cells the winner in ANY competi ition, Reb. Better luck in the next life. Or in the next decade, when you manage to get your GED.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Ha anytime I say anything that you don't like you get mad!!!!( I foget I bad grammer I am so dumb me rebel dumb)HMMM SARCASM!!!

      May 10, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      Hey Tom even if my grammar sucks, even if I don't have a lot of education (which I do) It doesn't matter!! I Have Jesus and he is all that I need! I will boast in my weakness because Jesus is there!!! Do you not get that? Nothing else matters to me except Jesus Christ!!! I count everything else as garbage because all that matters is Jesus!!!!

      May 10, 2012 at 11:03 pm |
  13. Reality

    Gay marriage? Gay unions? Minor issue!!

    Onto the nitty gritty of s-ex, contraception and STD protection in the 21st century;

    ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS:

    – from a guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

    Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter. ...

    The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

    : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill ( 8.7% failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

    Added information before making your next move:

    from the CDC-2006

    "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

    And from:

    Consumer Reports, January, 2012

    "Yes, or-al se-x is se-x, and it can boost cancer risk-

    Here's a crucial message for teens (and all se-xually active "post-teeners": Or-al se-x carries many of the same risks as va-ginal se-x, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of or-al cancers in America in people under age 50.

    "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (It should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

    Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":

    1a. (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    1b. (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

    Followed by:
    One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
    Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
    The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
    Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
    IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

    Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

    May 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
  14. a person of the Name

    @ godpot forgive me, I'm on a phone so once comments get too many it starts to drop old ones. I do with to continue our talk.

    May 10, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • GodPot

      I had to go back to work as well, so no worries, and I read your response to my last post. Even if you have looked into other religions, were you coming into it as a skeptic or with an open searching mind? I believe anyone who really does study all religions will see many similarities and many doctrinal differences. And the only absolute "fact" you can derive from any of it is that some of them must be wrong since even though much of the morality is the same, the doctrinal points have severe conflicts. This means we know they can't all be right as to what happens after death, but we cannot confirm by any repeatable or substantial means which one or ones might be right. This means to accept any belief in a spiritual realm you must journey out on the invisible plank of faith. Then we let our fear of death and our desire to be remembered and continue on in some way to take us that next step into thin air and then once you are out there you realize like a cartoon character that the only thing that will make you fall into the abyss of uncertainty is looking down, doubting your faith, which is of course the only way you can analytically examine it.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
  15. One one

    The bible is against divorce. Why don't Christians freak out about that? IMO, the anti-gay stance is just plain mean.

    May 10, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • W247

      I do believe that divorce does make Christians "freak out". There are a lot of organizations within the religious and secular communities that are available to help families that are going through difficult times. There are alot of things that break marriages: alcoholism, infidelity, money, lies, self-centeredness, selfishness, abuse etc, etc,etc and unfortunately the church is not immune to these things either. When talking with people contemplating divorce inside and outside of the religious community, the biggest thing I noticed is that – it starts with the selfishness of one or both of the spouses. That is the one commonality in both het.er.ose.xual and ho.mose.xual relationships that end badly!

      May 10, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
  16. atomD21

    I know I'm going to cause a storm of crap with this, but, if the same gender issue was such a big deal, why is it that Jesus never specifically addressed it? All the scripture that talks about it is either in the Old Testament or in the various letters to early churches... Let the fight begin...

    May 10, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • Snow

      Well, apparently when the NT was written, the OT was completely invalidated.. read this, COMPLETELY INVALIDATED, according to them.

      But, if there is something in OT that supports christians agenda, like a dog's tail, they bend over to quote the OT.. and the worst part is, they do not see hypocrisy in this. Typical of them..

      May 10, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • Crom

      I love how so many of them say they want the government out of their lives but turn somersaults to make oppressive laws that intrude into people's lives more than any other group.
      Hypocrisy, thy name is religion!

      May 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • Jimmy

      It's like watching a Tea Party rally against MediCare where half the people in the crowd are sitting on a buggy they got through MediCare.

      May 10, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • W247

      Snow – Do you listen to what people tell you or, after hearing, research what was said to gain an understanding?

      May 10, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • Snow

      Of course I research and logically analyze whats told to me.. I am not a christian, you know.. Unlike them, I think.

      May 10, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
  17. brad7watson4miami

    Pres. Obama stated his religious view is the 'Golden Rule', therefore, he supports gay marriage. The Mormon Mitt Romney replied, "My religion teaches that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman, and a woman..."

    May 10, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
  18. W247

    Societies downfall is not religion or the loss of religion – it simply is the lack of respect that people show eachother on a day to day basis as witnessed in any comment board about any topic, but particularly where the article mentions anything about religion.

    May 10, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • just sayin

      You just nailed it. the CNN board is a sign of the times

      May 10, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Crom

      @W247 – The "golden rule" is outdated and unworkable insofar as it deals with a person's internal value system as opposed to focusing on human rights.
      How a person views other people tends to determine how they treat those people.
      This is true for a CEO who pollutes the community he doesn't live in just as it is true for your parents or guardians who raise you according to their own internal value systems.
      So the "golden rule" doesn't take this part of human nature into account and fails the smell test, but it works well enough for many people who already have sympathy and compassion for other people as their views of others lead them to treat others in a compassionate way.
      But for those who lack empathy, who's brains do not get enough oxytocin or who's brains are malformed or damaged in some way – they will gladly harm others since they do not understand and are physically incapable of feeling empathy or sympathy....and so on.
      Education has much to do with how you view the world as well. An uneducated bigot raised to think of someone outside their group as being "evil" or "inhuman" will nonetheless have loving relationships within their own bigoted group, yet how they view outsiders is a distorted and often untrue viewpoint. This is how bad information can destroy and damage societies throughout history.
      Each person is an individual, with an individual viewpoint informed by their individual circmstances and physiology.
      But I don't want to keep typing this stuff all day. Trying to reason people into thinking things through is often a waste of time here.

      May 10, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
    • Crom

      @W247 – Sorry, I think that post was supposed to go above yours. Life goes on.

      May 10, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
  19. just sayin

    There is a hell and I am in it and I am surrounded by delusional Christians.

    May 10, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • just sayin

      Ever notice how comical Christians sound in public when they start talking about their God liek he is actually real and buzzing around the world. lol They get all wild eyed and , raise their hands in the air. I have to pause and take in ...WOW there are people really this jacked up.

      May 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • fred

      praise the Lord !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      May 10, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • just sayin

      thank you fred

      May 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • One one

      It works better if they raise their hands in air.

      May 10, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      oh im sorry we christians actually have found something that makes us happy. Who cares if you agree with it or not why take someone elses joy away! Thats why atheism is stupid! does it really matter if people believe in a God? NO

      May 10, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • just sayin

      Rebel4Christ

      .......... Who cares if you agree with it or not why take someone elses joy away!
      .
      Now I want you to look in the mirror when you say this. This is what others are trying to tell you. Stay out of their lives and freedoms.

      Perhaps a lightbulb will go off in that Christian head. 😮

      May 10, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
    • just sayin

      One one

      It works better if they raise their hands in air.
      -
      Funny they are so anti gay but act like que ers jumping around with wide eyed goofy looks for Jesus. lol

      May 10, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • sam

      @Rebel – lift your hands in the air more often. It's harder to post silly things that way.

      May 10, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • just sayin

      Perhaps Rebel is listening to my words of wisdom?

      May 11, 2012 at 11:13 am |
  20. just sayin

    Re NC vote on gay marraige

    "To me this development is an indication that America as a country in the world might work again if it move in this direction much more.America is agreat country today because of the love and mercy that God has on America and its poeople because they chose God."
    .
    This is a fine fine fine example of the Christian Taliban mindeset. This is why Christians are moving towards treason and enemies of Freedom.

    May 10, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • just sayin

      One day we will be fighting for our freedom from the Christian Taliban

      May 15, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.