 |
|
|
|
 Delman Coates at Mt. Ennon Baptist Church is among a minority of black ministers in Maryland who have endorsed gay rights.
May 12th, 2012
08:00 AM ET
Is the black church guilty of spiritual hypocrisy in same-sex marriage debate?By John Blake, CNN (CNN) - Some people wonder if the black church will punish President Barack Obama for announcing support for same-sex marriage. Here’s another question: Why would the black church cite scripture to exclude gays when a similar approach to the Bible was used to enslave their ancestors? “It’s so unfortunate,” says James Cone, one the nation’s most influential black theologians and author of “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.” “The literal approach to scripture was used to enslave black people,” he says. “I’ve said many times in black churches that the black church is on the wrong side of history on this. It’s so sad because they were on the right side of history in their own struggle.” Call it historical irony: Black church leaders arguing against same-sex marriage are making some of the same arguments that supporters of slavery made in the 18th and 19th centuries, some historians say. Both groups adopted a literal reading of the Bible to justify withholding basic rights from a particular group. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Opposition to gay rights is not the standard position of all black churches. Still, while several predominately white mainline denominations have officially accepted gays and lesbians in various forms, the vast majority of black churches still consider homosexuality a sin. Black church leaders recently helped lead a successful drive to amend North Carolina’s constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The Rev. Fred Robinson, a black pastor in Charlotte, says most black churchgoers aren’t hypocrites. They take scripture, and sin, seriously. “Black people are not confused,” Robinson says. “If you look at the scriptures that oppose homosexuality, Old and New Testament, they are clearer cut than the ones people used to justify slavery.” Yet there are other factors beyond the Bible that shape the black church’s resistance to same-sex marriage. “It’s more than scripture – it’s history, culture, how we were raised,” says the Rev. Tim McDonald, founder of the African American Ministers Leadership Council. Some black church leaders are still fighting hard just to persuade straight black couples to marry. Accepting same-sex marriage when so many black households lack a husband and wife makes McDonald uneasy. “I am not comfortable performing a wedding ceremony of the same sex,” says McDonald, an Obama supporter. “That’s just where I am.” Some black pastors, however, embrace a literal approach to the Bible not just to exclude gays but to get rid of competition, says Edward Blum, a San Diego State University historian. Some black pastors cite New Testament passages such as Paul’s demand that women keep silent in churches to argue against black women in the pulpit. That argument is harder to make when black women’s energy and donations form the backbone of the black church, Blum says, but some still get away with it. “The biblical literalist reading has kept male leadership in power in a church that is hugely female,” Blum says. “It keeps power in men’s hands.” The one book that mattered Black churches also embrace a literal reading of the scripture because of its unique history, says Blum, author of “W.E.B. DuBois, American Prophet.” During slavery and segregation, many blacks saw the Bible as the one document they could trust. The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, state and local laws – all found some way to ignore their humanity, Blum says. The Bible, though, was one book that told them that they weren’t slaves or three-fifths of a person, Blum says. It said they were children of God. “Throughout the 18th and 19th century, what document could they trust?” Blum says. “When the Bible says it’s so, it’s something that black people believed they could trust.” Their enemies, though, used that same veneration of the Bible against them. Slaveholders had a simple but powerful argument when critics challenged them: Trust the Bible. They cited scriptures such as Ephesians 6:5. (“Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling. ...”) And they said Jesus preached against many sins, but never against slavery. Since the Bible is infallible, and scripture sanctions slavery, it must be part of God’s order, slaveholders concluded. “Slavery is everywhere in the Bible,” Blum says. “When Americans who were in favor of slavery defended it with the Bible, they had a treasure trove of clear biblical passages that accepted enslavement.” Blum says abolitionists found it difficult to mount an effective counterargument. They couldn’t just say trust the Bible. They preached another approach to scriptures. They said you couldn’t enslave people based on the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you. (Obama cited the Golden Rule and his Christian faith in supporting same-sex marriage). “The abolitionist turned to the ethics and spirit of the Bible,” Blum says. “They were theological modernists before modernism.” And what are black clergy and churchgoers today when they cite the Bible to oppose same-sex marriage? Robinson, the North Carolina pastor, says they’re not homophobes. “It says in the Bible that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” he says. “How do you explain that one away? A lot of honest Christians are not trying to hate homosexuals. They’re saying that if I take the Bible seriously, I’m not sure I can say it’s right.” Robinson says that some opposition to homosexuality is actually based in compassion: “If I’m concerned about your soul, I have to tell you the truth in love.” Cone, who teaches at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, says black churchgoers opposed to same-sex marriage are instead mimicking their ancestors’ oppressors. “I tell some people, ‘These people were against you.’ They would have lynched you. How are you going to now join them and help them lynch somebody else?’” |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
My gosh, Biblical arguments have been used to support slavery, and against desegregation, inter-racial marriage, and women's right to vote. People look back these and shake their heads wondering how people could be so closed minded and ignorant. 20-30 years from now they will be doing the same thing over gay marriage and we Christians will be saying how badly the misinterpreted the Scripture when people tried to condemn it. Heck, there are main stream Christian Churches that are already doing that......along with the majority of the country.
Exactly. Christianity is MAN MADE and is always being refashioned by man in an attempt to drag the filthy corpse to the finish line.
When sodomy becomes the civil normality, then will sodomizers demand more and more practices to the forefronts of all societies!
Sin is sin. I don't care what people are saying! Man is suppose to ne with women. Look God loves everybody, not just the saved.if Gays win they right to be married fine,if people understand the noble they would know that that's their reward! They wont see heaven. So let them do what they want. The lord said to love and let him be the judge. Obama is a political figure so he needs to do what he can to be reelected! The lords going to return no matter who is in office! Its no big deal. Learn the word and understand it before you go off saying silly things.
The only sin I've been seeing is the sin of being prejudice against many good and loving people.
Evolution does not care what people are "supposed" to be doing and your religious superstition has no place in politics.
The bible is a good book. But let me say not everything is correct. We are all Gods children! No one should beat , abuse or enslave anyone. Jesus knew a lot But it doesn't mean he knew everything! God is a force of energy beyound our thoughts. Yes we have free will . No God doesn't kill people. Nature and people kill people. Karma is real .Life is a circle that keeps going around and thats how history repeats itself. To change things you must obey one thing and that one thing is to love one another and leave the judging to God. Protect yourself always but never set out to do anyone harm.
A people's History of the U.S by Howard Zinn is a great book.
CNN, let's hear how intolerant other religions are towards alternative partner choices. Typical Christian bashing by the liberal media. You only attack Jesus because he is the only one who matters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4BaAur89MU
Christians are the main target because they are the ONLY religion that claims they are running this country. Try again.
@CPGreg –
Some religions are much more intolerant of hom.ose.xuality than is Christianity, while some are less intolerant; that in no way lets Christianity off-the-hook for its specific brand of intolerance. You don't get that?
The biased media always takes everything in the Bible out of context.
If you read the Bible, it's very clear the slavery described is nothing like modern slavery in the US. Modern slavery was built around the idea that blacks were inferior so it was proper to enslave them for their own good. Slavery in the Bible has no connotation of race, ethnicity, or religion. In the ancient world, slavery was about economics – if you're poor with an unpaid debt, you were sold into slavery: white, black, Jew, pagan – didn't matter. Also ancient slavery was often for a limited period of time, and slaves had rights.
In the Old Testament, Jews were commanded to free their Jewish slaves after 6 years (Deuteronomy 15:12) and every 50th year all slaves were to be set free in the year of Jubilee (Leviticus 25:10).
Nonsense.
The Bible says you can beat your slave.
The Bible says you can beat your servant. Is that better?
truth
The cherry picking "christians" are out in droves.
Oh, that's much more ethical! Now I see the moral purity.
Just like all those times in Genesis when handmaids are "given" to husbands with barren wives. How much choice do you think the slave had in that transaction? Hey you, go let that hairy old man have his way with you. Yup, when you look at it in context, those good ol' fashioned family values just shine right through.
@Asc –
Thank you for yet another example supporting the late Mr. Hitchens' claim that "religion poisons everything"
Thank you for correcting us on how oppressive Christianity is on slaves. So because it is "not that bad" it is ok? And because Christian slavery is "not that bad" oppression of gays is ok?
If I misunderstood your point please explain.
In fact the conditions for slaves (indentured servant actually) was such that they would be treated like one of the family. At the time of automatic release ( Sabbatical year or Jubilee) the "servant" was permitted to pledge himself to the house forever, thus being known as a bond-servant (there by choice). God's way was to design conditions so that there was an incentive to treat servants so well that they chose to stay with you forever.
Fitting. Christians suffering from stockholm syndrome explaining how ancient servants suffering from the same syndrome are good.
David Geffeney,
Read the Bible. GOD'S WAY was to tell you how badly you could hurt your slave without doing anything wrong.
@David, you almost make it sound fun to be a slave. Such perverted logic is needed to justify religious oppression.
@David Geffeney –
Patent bullsheit! Have you actually read your magic books?
Wh taught you that Jesse?
1. raised in the church 2. life experience 3. world travel 4. having to work with people of different backgrounds whether i liked them or not to get a job done. This includes racist, islamics ect ect
So you taught yourself?
Yes I did, however I have learned one thing religion is an outgrowth of a societies moral code. Many religions actually share the same basic principles, their mannerisms and methodology vary greatly. All religions boil down to a set of ethics and I believe (do not say i am right or that I am wrong i believe) that no one society has a right to impose its ethics on another society.
We are all Children of God. I don't believe for one second anyone is to be enslaved
Briana,
Do you believe that everyone deserves equal rights? In other words do you support the part of the Bible that advocates hatred toward gays or do you support the Golden Rule?
Out of fear, blacks have always been on the wrong side of history. Slavery had broken and psychologically broken them so well, that many feared taking a stand without permission. Most souther black clergy were actually against D. King until they saw he had the support of many white clergy. Only then, when many saw which way the wind was likely to blow did they jump onboard. The Christian Bible for blacks in this country has been both a salvation and a curse. Many tend to forget the same argument used against gays in this country was used also against interracial relationships by white southern Baptist. Most southern blacks proclaim to be of the Baptist faith. American blacks are sooooo confused. Slavery, the horrors suffered during Jim Crow and segregation completely wiped out many logistical thinking. When asked, many will say what they believe is expected of them rather than what they actually believe.
I was taught to never argue 2 things: religion or politics, seems like alot of that going on lately no wonder were in this mess sigh
I wonder why you are reading a blog?
you forgot Jesse 1:2
honeslty doc it is very entertaining to see the different view points and informative sometimes when someone speaks from knowledge and not mindless drivel
why is it mindless just because you don't agree?
It's not that Christopher Hitchens is never wrong, but it's dam.ned uncommon.
If you ever want to see unbridled intellect on parade, check out the Four Horsemen conversation with Hitchens, Dimmitt, Dawkins, and Harris on YouTube. The clarity of thought and articulate prose coming from the four directions nearly crushes the table they sit around.
People shou;d understand that the last book of NT was written before AD 100. The "laws" on edible meat is a middle eastern custom based on the realities of that time. Peter (I think, not Jesus – of course) the Church leader in Jerusalem allowed gentiles to eat what ever they want to eat. Slavery was a normal fact of life for the most part of history till the Christian idea that all are children of God took root and people became more aware of the real contradiction between what they preach and practice. Europeans were slaves of Romans; Hebrews beame slaves themselves; Arabs kept slaves and was an integral part of slave trade for long time; Indian Hindus caste system was worse than slavery. Britain abolished slavery under the pressure from Christians themselves. Your lib media will not tell you this. For them, everything is the fault of Christians. America was a different story – this was a country with vast land and needed cheap labor. American slavery was the worst kind as the slave person was seen lesser than animal and great atrocity was done to these poor people who were shipped like cattle to a foreign land, separated from families. (Hindu untouchables were seen lesser than animals too by the upper castes – but atleast they had their own families). More than religion , the stark contrast in origins, color and race made this cruel treatment look acceptable to undereducated white new land owners. Ofcourse people are basically mean and selfish and everyone has their own agenda (just like the bloggers here) There is no difference in them using these verses for their puposes (of controlling the slaves) from these libs using the same verses for their purposes. Basically the Devil can quote the scripture for his own purposes.
One question ; who really wants to marry anyway these days? This is just political circus. Thye don't want you to pay attention to the real problems. For example, why don't they try to cut the cost of college edcuation in this county? All we are getting is mroe expensive morons. Just for starters I was shocked to see that the school district administrators average salary is 160,000 dollars. Cut the salaries of these nonprofit administrators and use it for universal healthcare, we will get somewhere.
"American slavery was the worst kind"
Are you talking about our Christian nation that Christians get all upset about if anyone denies that?
and where do you think the white man get the idea of slaves?
osberver, nobdoy is denying this. But you have to let go off the past after learning from it. The libs are using everything to divide the country. This is not progressive way.
rochdoc,
What possible difference does it make where Christians got the idea of slavery, like from the Bible?
The fact is that you claim that the slavery done by Christians in America was the worst.
Im glad that a few x-tians finally spoken up against slavery. Only took them a few thousand years to stop condoning it.
You libes are vey very very brainwashed. I just said, Romans made western Europeans slaves. I am sure there must have been slavery before the white started reading bible. I am sure they were re-introduced to this as a lucrative market by the middle easterners and North Africans.
INteresting fact is that in Darfur, a black nation, slavery rages. Can you blame the white man for that as well? who taught them to enslave there own race?
Disclaimer- I am neither black or white. Just another color.
Roch, you must be illiterate. No one said that the bible created slavery, just that it condoned it and so did it's followers while they practiced it.
Slaves? Freedoms? What exactly is one's freedoms? The freedom to work is a freedom? The freedom to mate? The freedom to go into debt regarding the buying of a home? The freedom to buy a car and going further into debt? Seems to me that most of us are still slaves to a system of bought freedoms in economic slaveries!
HOLY SH!T!! IT'S AN UNDERSTANDABLE POST FROM DREAMER!!!! WHO KNEW HE COULD DO IT?!?!!? YAY!!
So you want the apostle to go back and correct what he said so that he can be politically correct in 2012. Well, take this, he was trying to be politically correct for the first century. He was following along the lines of his master that you should "give to Ceasar what is Ceasers". Christians did not intend to make poitical storm, but wanted to have spiritual reform. They did not care about the world. .. well, there is no use in telling you.
rochdoc
"Christians didn't care about the world"
That could be the problem.
I don't want anyone to go back and be politically correct. You are dancing around the point because you fear it's conclusions. That sharia law and christians oppression of others throughout the ages are both the result of a people who are stuck in the past and demand obedience from all.
@momoya – regarding: God's Old Dreamer's intelligible post.
I agree. Well done God's Old...wage slavery is not forced upon us, but few have the forti.tude required to avoid it.
Jesus came, died, resurrected and while he walked on earth taught us that everything old is not good. I also apply the two golden commandments (i don't say "rules")... I don't need to dance around as I know what is right and what is wrong. It is the lib media and people like you dancing around, trying to divide people.
If the Bible (and I don't say God does) that a marriage is between a man and woman, How many wives did Abraham have? for many other men of God have multiple wives in the bible? Seems like there is a hypocrite (spelling) in the house.
Lowering the age of consent will be the next thing all you liberated minds will be dealing with.
Unwarranted BS. Where do you find child marriages and kissing cousins? In the most conservative parts of the country. Don't even pretend.
Well if we go by your bible. Mary was only 12-14 when she was impregnated. Also your God calls for pedophilia and r@pe on more than one occasion.
I don't understand. Is "Black" a sect or something? Why would a black church think differently than any other church?
As a black gay male...I always wondered why the Black Church cast its net out SO FAR as to deal with gay marriage and other social issues...when the the Black Church has a bunch of hypocrites sitting in the pews every Sunday. The rate of high black prisoners; the high rate of black dropping out of high school; the high rate of teen pregnancy; the high rate of single family homes; the high rate of domestic abuse; the high rate of drug use; the high rate of homes that have been foreclosed...and the list goes on and on...I say FOCUS A LITTLE BIT MORE INWARDS and deal with issues that CAN bolster the Black Community to a worthwhile status in the 21st century and NOT this very minor thing that you on a daily basis will not see and DOES not have any direct effect upon you....because the numerous things that I mentioned truly do...
@ TrueWords
The same games are true for many other races around the globe! Nothing like news being the laundry list to keep one whole!
No matter how you try to reason or justify your sin. God says its an abomination (literally disgusting) but all sinners will God judge. The only way out, is salvation in Jesus sacrifice on the cross and recognizing sin is hated by God and repentance must take place, not excuses.
Genesis 2:23-24 KJV
OLD TESTAMENT primarily to the Jews
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Leviticus 18:22 KJV
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 KJV
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
NEW Testament - To all including Jews
Romans 1:24 KJV
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25-32 KJV
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Hey CNN, I have the 12 Forbidden cartoons. Can we post those? Oh that's right, we can't offend Islam or Allah, that would cause mass protests with many deaths around the world.
http://youtu.be/A3tHzLvk_84
I post them all the time and no news of mass deaths or protests.
I changed my mind... I want to marry 4 women, (Like Barack Obama's grandfather), so that will be legalized soon as well right?
Fine by me
So you are voting for Mittens Romney?
the trolls are hungry today I see....please dont feed CPGreg
So, I am a troll because I engage in debate here? I get it... I am just supposed to chant the liberal mantra. Say an extra line for me, I won't be joining in.
You may not be a troll, but given your comments there are some other choice names that come to mind.
@ CPGreg
Such is Life and the freedoms we have or don't! Screw the laws and hook up with many mates! Have all the kids one can and don't mind the bills! There are ways around dealing with new-birth costs and whatevers!
Using religion as an excuse to deny others civil rights is wrong. It was used by whites to oppress blacks and now a majority of blacks are using it to oppress gays. This is wrong.
It is amazing Christians still post comments to blogs like this asking why non-believers hang out and try to show them the truth. We are not trying to deny you of some god's riches (as someone posted earlier) any more than we want to deny you of Santa's Christmas presents. We are trying to wake you up and in so doing make the world a better place.
White, black or green, people need to get past religious delusions.
yup,,,,,,,,,,,, ,
Sodomy is up to the sodomizers to deal with! Leave such "civil" customs out of the child's learning arenas! Why is it that the teaching to the very young the ideals that most adults are having themselves a hard time to fathom let alone understand?
It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others.
You do not believe in religion because you honestly think it is true, you believe in it because you fear mortality or are seeking meaning in your life. It does not take a genius to figure out all religion is man made, so for humanity's sake, please stop lying to yourself.
Deluding yourself in religion does not change reality. Lying to yourself is probably the worst possible way to try to find meaning.
How can it be immoral? If there is no standard to measure something against then everything is relative. Who's standard do you say is right?
In the same way we can come to objective truths about the world, such as the Earth is flat, we can also come to objective conclusions about morality. Objective morality must be based on rational thought, not man made religions of ignorant societies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6DW0e70DF0
And the natural end to a completely gay society is the extinction of that society. How is that rational thinking?
Thats because a completely gay race of humans is as unnatural as a completely hetero race of humans.
CPGreg,
It isn't rational thinking. Gays and lesbians can reproduce and many, if not most, want to be parents.
It is irrational to think evolutionary forces would result in a completely gay society. Besides how does this rationalize imposing your religion on others?
CP Im surprised you need us to tell you these things. I would think this sort of information was understood by high schoolers.
And no more from CPGreg.
Reason and intelligence does have that effect on faith as well as believer.
You say man made, I say why do we exist if you can answer that!
No matter how you try to reason or justify your sin. God says its an abomination (literally disgusting) but all sinners will God judge. The only way out, is salvation in Jesus sacrifice on the cross and recognizing sin is hated by God and repentance must take place, not excuses.
Genesis 2:23-24 KJV
OLD TESTAMENT primarily to the Jews
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Leviticus 18:22 KJV
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 KJV
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
NEW Testament - To all including Jews
Romans 1:24 KJV
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25-32 KJV
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Are you kidding?
American blacks are NOT about being open minded at all.
They are focused singularly on their own skin color and obtaining maximum concern and attention from society regarding their skin color. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The rights of women, gays, the handicapped...or any other race of people is of ZERO concern to them.
Do not confuse American black liberalism with open-mindedness. big mistake
true
Wow, way to make sweeping generalizations about a huge array of people based only on race. We call that "racism." No wonder CPGreg agrees with you.
Ok, I've changed my mind... I want to marry 4 women, (Like Barack Obama's grandfather), so that will be legalized soon as well right?
If Romney wins. Yes!
CPGreg,
Your best chance to get the polygamy you want is with Romney.
Romney's grandfather had 5 wives!
The bible is fine with that!