My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
The author argues that the meaning of the Bible's passages on homosexuality have been lost in translation.
May 15th, 2012
05:39 PM ET

My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality

Editor's note: Daniel A. Helminiak, who was ordained a priest in Rome, is a theologian, psychotherapist and author of “What the Bible Really Says about homosexuality" and books on contemporary spirituality. He is a professor of psychology at the University of West Georgia.

By Daniel A. Helminiak, Special to CNN

President Barack Obama’s support of same-sex marriage, like blood in the water, has conservative sharks circling for a kill. In a nation that touts separation of religion and government, religious-based arguments command this battle. Lurking beneath anti-gay forays, you inevitably find religion and, above all, the Bible.

We now face religious jingoism, the imposition of personal beliefs on the whole pluralistic society. Worse still, these beliefs are irrational, just a fiction of blind conviction. Nowhere does the Bible actually oppose homosexuality.

In the past 60 years, we have learned more about sex, by far, than in preceding millennia. Is it likely that an ancient people, who thought the male was the basic biological model and the world flat, understood homosexuality as we do today? Could they have even addressed the questions about homosexuality that we grapple with today? Of course not.

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Hard evidence supports this commonsensical expectation. Taken on its own terms, read in the original languages, placed back into its historical context, the Bible is ho-hum on homosexuality, unless – as with heterosexuality – injustice and abuse are involved.

That, in fact, was the case among the Sodomites (Genesis 19), whose experience is frequently cited by modern anti-gay critics. The Sodomites wanted to rape the visitors whom Lot, the one just man in the city, welcomed in hospitality for the night.

The Bible itself is lucid on the sin of Sodom: pride, lack of concern for the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16:48-49); hatred of strangers and cruelty to guests (Wisdom 19:13); arrogance (Sirach/Ecclesiaticus 16:8); evildoing, injustice, oppression of the widow and orphan (Isaiah 1:17); adultery (in those days, the use of another man’s property), and lying (Jeremiah 23:12).

But nowhere are same-sex acts named as the sin of Sodom. That intended gang rape only expressed the greater sin, condemned in the Bible from cover to cover: hatred, injustice, cruelty, lack of concern for others. Hence, Jesus says “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 19:19; Mark 12:31); and “By this will they know you are my disciples” (John 13:35).

How inverted these values have become! In the name of Jesus, evangelicals and Catholic bishops make sex the Christian litmus test and are willing to sacrifice the social safety net in return.

The longest biblical passage on male-male sex is Romans 1:26-27: "Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another."

The Greek term para physin has been translated unnatural; it should read atypical or unusual. In the technical sense, yes, the Stoic philosophers did use para physin to mean unnatural, but this term also had a widespread popular meaning. It is this latter meaning that informs Paul's writing. It carries no ethical condemnation.

Compare the passage on male-male sex to Romans 11:24. There, Paul applies the term para physin to God. God grafted the Gentiles into the Jewish people, a wild branch into a cultivated vine. Not your standard practice! An unusual thing to do — atypical, nothing more. The anti-gay "unnatural" hullabaloo rests on a mistranslation.

Besides, Paul used two other words to describe male-male sex: dishonorable (1:24, 26) and unseemly (1:27). But for Paul, neither carried ethical weight. In 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul says that even he was held in dishonor — for preaching Christ. Clearly, these words merely indicate social disrepute, not truly unethical behavior.

In this passage Paul is referring to the ancient Jewish Law: Leviticus 18:22, the “abomination” of a man’s lying with another man. Paul sees male-male sex as an impurity, a taboo, uncleanness — in other words, “abomination.” Introducing this discussion in 1:24, he says so outright: "God gave them up … to impurity."

But Jesus taught lucidly that Jewish requirements for purity — varied cultural traditions — do not matter before God. What matters is purity of heart.

“It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles,” reads Matthew 15. “What comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles. For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.”

Or again, Jesus taught, “Everyone who looks at a women with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). Jesus rejected the purity requirements of the Jewish Law.

In calling it unclean, Paul was not condemning male-male sex. He had terms to express condemnation. Before and after his section on sex, he used truly condemnatory terms: godless, evil, wicked or unjust, not to be done. But he never used ethical terms around that issue of sex.

As for marriage, again, the Bible is more liberal than we hear today. The Jewish patriarchs had many wives and concubines. David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, and Daniel and the palace master were probably lovers.

The Bible’s Song of Songs is a paean to romantic love with no mention of children or a married couple. Jesus never mentioned same-sex behaviors, although he did heal the “servant” — pais, a Greek term for male lover — of the Roman Centurion.

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Paul discouraged marriage because he believed the world would soon end. Still, he encouraged people with sexual needs to marry, and he never linked sex and procreation.

Were God-given reason to prevail, rather than knee-jerk religion, we would not be having a heated debate over gay marriage. “Liberty and justice for all,” marvel at the diversity of creation, welcome for one another: these, alas, are true biblical values.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Daniel A. Helminiak.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (8,832 Responses)
  1. Josh

    Unfortunately, there are two very different definitions for "marriage"; one for religion and one for legal. Conservatives like to scare their followers by confusing the two. Don't fall for such.

    The root cause of the legal problems is that marriage has been written into many of our laws. There is one set of rules (laws) for the married and a different set of rules (laws) for the unmarried.

    Because of that, Gays have the right to choose which set of rules (laws) apply to them, just like straights do. So, they have the right to marry and "enjoy" the set of rules (laws) reserved exclusively for adults who are married.

    The real solution, is to re-write the laws and take "married" vs. "not married" out of them all. I don't know why our elected officials don't want to even examine this so obvious of a solution.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • kastzero

      Great point

      May 16, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • kastzero

      Great point

      May 16, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      No marriage is legal, church or otherwise, unless it is accompanied by a marriage license. That same license can be used in a marriage ceremony held on a beach, in a church, in a court, anywhere.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • Josh

      TruthPrevails 🙂 , why does the religious ceremony such as marriage even need the approval of the government? No other religious ceremony does. You don't need a license for a Confirmation, nor for a Bar Mitzvah.

      Again, we need to take "married" vs. "unmarried" out of our laws. All adults should be equal and have all the same laws apply to every adult.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:50 am |
    • NightOps

      Excellent point. I think it's absolutely LUDICROUS for us to be *inhumane* to those in a same-gender relationship by denying them visitation in hospitals, medical coverage, etc just because of their choice. What is the point?

      May 16, 2012 at 9:12 am |
    • Not a Scholar

      A marriage license was originally needed in order for the state to make sure it's laws were upheld. These laws prevented inbreeding and the spread of disease. Are those still valid needs of the state? In some cases I think so.

      May 16, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Primewonk

      Josh – because marriage is a civil contract. Baptism, confermation, etc., are not civil contract.

      The civil contract of marriage exists to simplify matters involving property, inheritance, survivorship, etc. There are 1100+ rights and benefits at the federal level that straight folks get simply for saying "I Do". Removing these rights would bankrupt the nation. Couples would need lawyers to draw up all the paperwork necessary to replicate these federal rules. We would hundreds of thousands of more lawyers – and is that really a good idea? We would also need thousands of new courssts and judges to sign off on all these lawyer created papers.

      May 16, 2012 at 10:20 am |
  2. J-bird

    Great article, Mr. Helminiak! The comments, however, show that many folks who purport to base their subjective anti-gay beliefs on scripture don't really care – or even know, for that matter – what the Bible actually has to say on the subject. We live in a free country. We should all be free to live our lives the way we see fit, so long as our actions do not negatively impact others in a real way. Simply offending another's sensibilities is not sufficient cause to limit or regulate one's behavior. If the author is looking for a good subject for a future article, I suggest he tell us what the Bible really says about money-lending (hint: it ain't good). I wonder how many on the right would be prepared to follow scripture in that regard?

    May 16, 2012 at 8:36 am |
  3. anon

    Leviticus 18:22

    May 16, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • Josh

      This debate has NOTHING to do at all with what's written in the Bible. Nothing at all.

      It has everything to do with what's written in our laws by Congress. Let's fix the laws to take "married" vs "unmarried" out of them all.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:45 am |
    • Primewonk

      anon – Leviticus 20:13 – just a couple pages later. Your god COMMANDS that you go out and KILL gay folks.

      Are you doing this? If not, why bring up Leviticus 18?

      May 16, 2012 at 10:25 am |
  4. beebalm

    Religion put aside...what if every person, animal and plant on earth were gay? Hmmm...I wonder what would happen?

    May 16, 2012 at 8:34 am |
    • Marc

      What a stupid comment....

      May 16, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • Jon

      what if everyone was celibate, like the Catholic Clergy?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • Just_Gee

      Beebalm –
      Religion aside, what if every flower, plant, animals and human were celibate?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:49 am |
    • thejourneyofanewwife

      The world would quickly die out.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:51 am |
    • DrMatrix

      Religion put aside..... Hmmm... I wonder what would happen?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:56 am |
  5. John

    When we close our minds, regardless of our persuasion or faith, we die.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:33 am |
    • NightOps

      How so? What type of "closing" are you referencing?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:45 am |
  6. Gman

    why would anybody listen to a catholic priest who is gay. why not talk about the enormous amount of abuse that
    goes on in his own alm mater. talk about the sins of your own church before you critisize the word of god.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:29 am |
    • Primewonk

      Instead of just denigrating the scholar who wrote this article, why didn't you bother to refute what he said, and back it up?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • Pax Canning

      He's not criticizing the word of god, he's explaining it. And there are plenty of good priests around. Trying to shut all of them up for the actions of some of them is pretty short-sighted. You might as well outlaw the entire Catholic church if that's your reasoning.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • HWB

      Primewonk, he did.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • Primewonk

      No HWB, he didn't.

      Dr. Helminiak took considerable care in explaining why the verses the fundiots use to condemn hômosèxuality don't mean what the fundiots think they mean.

      Ggman simple reparroted the standard fundiot drivel of thinks like – he's gay (why the hell would that matter??) and – Catholics are pedophiles.

      He did absolutely nothing to refute any of the information Dr. Helminiak provided.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • Gman

      @ primewonk, the fact that he's gay prejudices his argument. the fact is because he's gay he contorts the scripture
      to his own views. he also conveniently leaves out important fundamental concepts. when the apostle paul speaks
      to marriage and says anyone who thinks he has acted towards his virgin improperly is free to mary, nowhere in
      the bible does that imply the male species. the word virgin in the bible is used always in context with the female
      gender. ie the virgin mary. nowhere do you read the virgin paul or timothy or any other male virgin. so by
      exclusion of facts and scripture he seeks to justify his opinion. but excluding evidence of the contrary does not
      justify his argument anymore than someone saying there is no god.

      May 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom the Piper's Son

      With that same argument you can say that religious leaders that are not gay also have prejudice views. Distorting scripture to support their argument. O wait.. THAT’S WHAT THE ARTICALE IS ABOUT.

      May 16, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
  7. Darkmeat

    I was the unfortunate victim of being forced to live in Alabama for a little while. I have to say, that state is full of the most retarded people on the planet. The women are horrendous. ALL of your friends have slept with her. All of them. Guaranteed. They all stink like Coors Light as well (the women).

    With that said, if you're from that state, please don't post anything here. You're only proving what I say to be true.

    Every male from Alabama I've ever met is in the closet. I'm dead serious. Every single one of them has experimented with another man. This is an oddly well kept secret. Considering people do nothing but gossip, drink beer, go bowling or hunting in that state, you'd think everyone on the planet would know.

    But, they don't. They should. Consider this: Alabama has the highest rate of gay murder in the country (they kill more than anyone). It actually makes sense if you think about it. They are all experimental, right? Their religion tells them it's wrong, and they try to repress these feelings and boners they get when they're around other men. They are trying to prove to their God that they are all straight.

    But what do they all do? They all walk around without shirts all the time. All sweaty and touching each other. That's the true Alabama male for you. This is how it really is in that state, and I'm glad I'm out of there away from all those types.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • MD

      You are a total IDIOT.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:31 am |
    • Darkmeat

      WHatever dude. You can go move in with them for all I care. I'm sure you'd fit right in.

      A=S=S=H=O=L=E !!

      May 16, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • MD

      Thank you for proving my point.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      I think that was for me ha ha ha first darkness I'm probably darker than you if you want to see some fine ass women let me show you our beaches. And don't know how many gays you hang with but I'm straight as an arrow.I smoke weed no alcohol to dangerous of a drug

      May 16, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • HWB

      You must be from Bulgaria.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • 2cynical

      @darkmeat. I am from Alabama, thank you very much. A biomedical researcher. Your post was the most backward, ignorant piece of trash I have ever read.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:44 am |
  8. Leah Reis

    There is no supreme being. so, why all the broohaha?

    May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • lolol

      no proofs to back this statement of yours ?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • NightOps

      That's your system of belief / opinion. I disagree.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:07 am |
  9. tk

    Nice spin on scripture. You could probably prove anything with reasoning like this!

    May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom the Piper's Son

      Lol… you just proved what Atheists have been telling YOU for years.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • tk

      Being able to spin out of a truth doesn't stop making it true. Take the president of Iran and the holocaust for instance.

      May 16, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • Tom, Tom the Piper's Son

      Thank you for proving my point. Religious types, those who live by faith see what they want to see.

      May 16, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
  10. Oakspar

    The Bible is clear – notice that the author made a few key mistakes:

    (1) He avoided the verses that everyone knows that clearly state that it is an abomination in the land (Leviticus) and its part in the list of those who do not enter the kingdom of heaven (Revelations). Any arguement about "what the Bible says" must include all of the references, not just two picked out of the group.

    (2) He based his arguement on what the Bible does not say, rather than what it does. I agree that Lot's defense and S&G's sin has more to do with the rules of hospitality than any other offence – but no one offence is given in the text. Thus, the punishment is more of an "all of these above," including, no doubt, other wickednesses not in the story at all (deciet, violence, idolotry, etc.).

    (3) He plays the Greek card. Always beware of anyone who goes "to the original language" for the "real meaning" of their interpretation. There are legitimate linguistic reasons for going to the original languages, but if you are using a reliable translation (which most are) – then you are using something translated by the best of the best of linguists in the world. Unless your local priest has multiple doctorates in the language, then any argument based off of a difference in how they translate it is spurious. It is nothing more than a arguement based in intellectual intimidation – "you don't know the language and I do, therefore I have special knowledge of the (gnosis) true meaning of the Bible which you must accept." There is a reason Gnosticism was rooted out of the early church.

    (4) He assumes that because a word can be used to mean multiple things that it can mean any of those things in context. If I say "I am going to the bar," I might be going to get a drink, beginning a gymnastic routine, taking a test to be a lawyer, or going to the end of the beach. I cannot mean more than one of those things with my statement; only one can be true. If that line is in the middle of a story on fishing, saying that I must be a lawyer gymnist fisher is not valid – I am going to the beach to fish. Sure, in the Greek, the word for "young male servant" carried undertones, because the Greeks often did engage in those relations. To say that a Roman Centurian, however, meant those undertones about his male servant when using Greek (the common trade language of the area – but almost everyone's second language) is deciet. The Romans would not have used those undertones, as the "Greek perversion" (as they called it) went against the rather strict Roman moral code.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:27 am |
  11. NightOps

    It's simple: according to pure Christianity, there is NOTHING wrong with a person that IS of an "alternative" lifestyle. There is only a problem when intercourse is involved between two individuals of the same gender, but only because it is *adultery*. The explanation is simple:
    1) Intercourse outside of the covenant of marriage is sin – as lust/adultery is a sin (Exodus 20:14, 1 Corinthians 7:1-9).
    2) The Bible *clearly* defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman (Gen 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.").

    The sin committed between a same-gender couple through the act of intercourse is THE SAME SIN that is committed between a male and female during the act of intercourse outside the covenant of marriage.

    Christians: have you ever dealt with premarital intercourse in your life? It is pervasive throughout our society! I am certainly guilty of it as well. Does this mean we should accept it? No, of course not. But does this mean that we should adamantly fight against those that believe otherwise? Judge for yourself, but I do not believe that doing so is in the spirit of the Bible. We are to love our "neighbors". It's amazing how receptive people can be to your faith once you starting showing GENUINE concern for THEM!

    May 16, 2012 at 8:27 am |
    • John

      Well said

      May 16, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • Nicole

      I totally agree with your statement because after reading the Bible I had the same understanding...answers.
      If people would take some time to read this magnificent book people would have many answers to many questions regarding reason, cause and why.


      May 16, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • Death to Sycophants

      I'm not picking up on the 'clearly defines marriage' part. Where do you see the word 'marriage' in there?

      May 16, 2012 at 9:00 am |
    • NightOps

      @Death to Sycophants:
      Gen 2:24. We are talking about the religious definition of marriage, not the legal one. Sorry for any confusion. The reason is simple: the discussion was concerning the religious implications of same-gender religious marriage. If you do not accept the Christian system of belief, then it's really a moot point.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:15 am |
  12. Lulzmythology

    The bible is a fiction book anyways. Anyone that lives thier life by it is a fool. Compassion, love, tolerance...all reside in the mind and heart naturally...not by reading a thousand year old pulp novel. I do not hate religious nuts, just avoid them and try to get the word out that if you have to pick a fiction book to live your life by...pick something not filled with hate speech, genocide, violence, and terror.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • NightOps

      You may believe it is fiction, but that is hardly a *fact*. Simply your opinion. As for love, compassion, concern...interesting thought. Modern Science and Psychology say differently; that we only seek out love, compassion, concern, etc only AFTER we have met all of our basic needs. A Christian is called to do this BEFORE having their own needs met.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • It comes down to this...

      All the evil in the bible that you speak of is perpetrated by mankind's sinful heart and disregard for God's truth. Yes, and at times God told His people to wipe out others. Guess what: that's His choice. He created mankind and He has the power to do what He wants with His creation. If you research history you will find that He sometimes destroys those who continue to thumb their nose at Him, even whole nations. He will let evil persist for only a time and then justice. Thankfully, He sent Christ to redeem our evil hearts and deliver us from sin.
      Proverbs 1:7
      The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • Tim

      You say you don't "hate" religious "nuts" but yet you speak of them in insulting terms. All the morals you cite have no meaning for they are only conventions of your culture.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • Tom, Tom the Piper's Son

      @ NightOps
      The part you and those like you miss is: everything is opinion until proven fact. So… here we are again waiting for the proof.

      @ It comes down to this...
      All the evil in the bible that you speak of is perpetrated by mankind's sinful heart and disregard for God's truth.
      Tell that to all the first born of Egypt. What did those babies do to god? Tell that to all the who died in the flood. I guess genocide is okay in your book… o wait it is!. Tell that to the woman turn to a pillar of salt for looking over her shoulder… sure she ‘broke’ the rule you god laid down.. but is looking over your shoulder really a reason to murder someone. To take away a man’s wife and a child’s mother? You people sick.

      @ Tim
      You can dislike something and not hate it. For example I dislike the TV show: Glee. I can express that dislike with insults by saying it’s a terrible show. That doesn’t mean I ‘hate’ it or the people in it. You are not a victim.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:46 am |
    • NightOps

      @Tom, Tom the Piper's Son:
      Well hey there! Long time, no chat! As for what I "missed", I think maybe you missed the fact that you and I both said the same thing...?? I completely agree – everything we are talking about (pretty much, at least) is our own personal opinions based on our presuppositions that we have derived based on our chosen beliefs....which is, again, technically an opinion (be it Christianity, Scientology, Atheism, etc..) They are all simply systems of belief.

      What part of my post that you replied to do you see as "opinion"...and that you are waiting on "proof" of?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • NightOps

      @Tom, Tom the Piper's Son:
      Another reply that you made:
      "Tell that to all the first born of Egypt. What did those babies do to god? Tell that to all the who died in the flood. I guess genocide is okay in your book… o wait it is!. Tell that to the woman turn to a pillar of salt for looking over her shoulder… sure she ‘broke’ the rule you god laid down.. but is looking over your shoulder really a reason to murder someone. To take away a man’s wife and a child’s mother? You people sick."

      If you are quoting these actions from the Bible and making a foundational argument against Christianity on these, then you first have to accept the Bible as fact. If you do not, then none of your statements are even worth responding to. If you do accept them as fact, then I will happily give you a more insightful reply.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Fido

      Shoot... my dog doesnt live his life by the bible and is happy as can be. He knows right from wrong, compassion and love. We don't need a book to tell us how to live our lives. People need to look in the mirror, and come to terms with what they see. If they happen to be Geeey and like it, then so be it. Too many haters in this world as it is.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:02 am |
    • NightOps

      This is all about presuppositions regarding how individuals view this world and this life. If you don't subscribe to a specific system of belief, then you really having nothing to worry about - do you?

      May 16, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • Tom, Tom the Piper's Son

      My apologies.
      I misread your post. I’ve read it again and it still doesn’t seem to say what you think it does. But considering you are the author you would know better than I what you meant.

      Second post.
      My argument is not against Christianity but is a reply to the statement all evil in the bible was committed by man. And no you do not have to accept the bible as fact to dispute an opinion of what it contains. For example.. we could debate the events from Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. That doesn’t mean I have to believe it actually took place. Whether my opinions are worth reading is up to the reader and irrelevant considering you continue to reply. Feel free to skip over my posts.

      Third post.
      Your reply to Fido.
      If you don't subscribe to a specific system of belief, then you really having nothing to worry about – do you?
      Yes..yes you do. This very article is about gay marriage and what the bible says about it. There are many gays that are no Christian and cannot get married.

      May 16, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
  13. ed

    Did God make Adam and Steve? Nope, Adam and EVE. Period, end of disscusion.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • Flippy1124

      That's YOUR beliefs. You do realize that not everyone believes the same as you right?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:23 am |
    • Gaunt

      Actually god dint make anyone, the two genders evolved as a most effecive means of ensuring genetic diversity. You fail.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Evolved from a muddy pool of nothing.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Saw an evolution program were the scientist said some ancient calamity pushed our numbers down to one maybe two breeding pairs of male and female not alot of diversity he said sorry gays you were of no use to mankind when we needed you .science fan speaking

      May 16, 2012 at 8:33 am |
    • Primewonk

      @ ed – actually, if your god made "Eve" from a rib of Adam, he did make "Steve". Apparently your god was too ignorant to understand the X and Y chromosomes, and that mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the maternal line. Eve would have been an identical genetic clone of Adam. Eve was a dude, dude.

      @ BamaDaniel – you wrote, "Evolved from a muddy pool of nothing." Well Sparky, if there was a muddy pool, why would you claim there was nothing? Something tells me that you are one of those folks who purposefully choose to be ignorant about science in general, and evolution in particular.

      Bama, you also said you had seen an "evolution program" where a scientist stated a catastrophy dropped the number of breeding pairs to one or two, and you claim he said that gays were of no use to mankind.

      Now I know for sure that you are simply yet another ignorant fundiot (fundamentalist îdiot) who doesn't have a freaking clue. You're talking about the Toba extinction event from ~70,000 years ago. This super-volcano explosion dropped the human population to a few thousand breeding pairs, not 1 or 2. Also, no scientist ever said that gays were of no use to mankind.

      So, Bama? Why do you fundiots lie like this?

      May 16, 2012 at 10:10 am |
  14. JAL

    Never heard such blatant rationalization, such bending of the truth. I wonder if Mr. Helminiak has ever contemplated that he just fulfilled Isaiah 5:20: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

    May 16, 2012 at 8:20 am |
    • It comes down to this...

      The author of this article also leaves out the scripture that pertains to himself and everyone who is promoting the gay lifestyle.

      Romans 1: 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie...

      May 16, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • Ryan


      May 16, 2012 at 8:30 am |
    • Death to Sycophants

      Your ignorance. You wear is with pride. And what was that about pride? Have a nice fail, er, FAIL.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:03 am |
  15. WWJD

    FACTS 100% true Reasons why Atheism is TERRIBLE and unhealthy for our children and living things:

    † Atheism is a religion that makes you stupid, ignorant & blind.
    † Atheism is a disease that needs to be treated.
    † Atheism makes you post stupid things (90% of silly comments here on CNN blogs are posted by closet Atheists)
    † Atheist are satanic and have gothic/emo/heavy metal lifestyle.
    † Atheists causes problem in our religious society.
    † Atheists support the gay agendas and it is unnatural.
    † Atheists are mentally ill, that's why they have no faith.
    † Atheism won't take you to kingdom of heaven and paradise.
    † Atheism making you agree with Stalin, Hitler (Denied his faith later), Mao, Pol Pot & other terrible mass murder leaders.
    † No traditional family lifestyle, no holidays, no culture, boring and feeling 'outsider'
    † Atheists are angry, drug additcted and committ the most crime – Most are gay.
    † Atheist try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet.
    † Atheists do not really exist, they just pretend that they don't believe in God and argue with religious people.
    † Atheists have had terrible life experience, bad childhood and not being loved.
    † Atheists have never read the Bible despite all of their claims. They rely on the internet.
    † All Atheists are uneducated... No Atheists could run for presidency.
    † Atheism brought upon the French Revolution, one of the most evil events of all of history.
    † Atheism cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.
    † All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.
    † The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right (see: Genesis 1:1, Psalms 14:1, Psalms 19:1, Romans 1:19-20)
    † Countries where Atheism is prevalent has the highest Suicide rate & Communist countries = Atheism!
    **Only 2-3% of the U.S. are Atheists/Agnostics VS. over 90% who believe in God (80% Christians) in the U.S.**

    † † Our Prayers goes to Atheists to be mentally healthy and seek their creator † †


    May 16, 2012 at 8:19 am |
    • Gaunt

      I'm curious WWJD. You posted this a few minutes ago. many people posted responses pointing out the utter dishonesty, inaccuracy and falshoods in this silly list. You never answered, and instead cut-and-pasted the same post a short time later.

      Obviously, based on this evidence, you are a coward. Ashamed of your faith, knowing you cannot defend your lies, so you dont even try. Thats obvious.

      My question is this. Did your faith make you a worthless coward, or were you raised that way by a family of worthless cowards?

      May 16, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • Goblinspider

      I think somebody's had way too much espresso this morning...

      May 16, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • Flippy1124


      May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • Kris

      Well, WWJD! All that is certainly your opinion. You keep spewing the vitriolic hatred and I'll keeping volunteering my time to the needy as your friendly neighborhood atheist. Working hands do far more than praying hands, which are the facts not "truth" or blind faith. If you don't like how -I- feel about that, tough noogies.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:30 am |
    • Hence21

      What ever happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged"

      May 16, 2012 at 8:30 am |
    • WWJD

      The truth of the LORD has been proven through the power of prayer. The evidence and the proof already exist. You choose to ignore it is not my fault. You ignore depite my posting of truths. I merely spread the word it is up to your choice to make relationship with Jesus Christ.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:31 am |
    • WWJD

      Kris the power of prayer has been proven. You are not able to deny this fact.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • Dan

      Allow me to retort:
      FACTS 100% true Reasons why Christianity is TERRIBLE and unhealthy for our children and living things:
      +Christians are smelly.
      +They're big dumb doo-doo heads.
      +They have cooties
      +Catholic priests molest children so that means every christian is a pedophile. That's a 100% fact!
      +Christian people are obsessed with yogurt and will kill to acquire it.
      +Christian people don't know how to drive and there is a conspiracy in the DMV to fudge their test results.
      +Christian people will not walk counterclockwise on a wednesday because it offends baby Jesus.
      +Everyone else inthe world talks about how ugly Christians are behind their backs.
      +The reason lions are endangered is because Christian flesh is toxic to wild animals.
      +Emperor Constantine converted the roman empire to christianity because he wanted to justify his unquenchable thirst for yogurt.
      +Christians always lie to your face but are bound by their faith to tell you the truth if you steal their car keys.

      Our best wishes go to Christians, except not because they're the scourge of the earth.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:34 am |
    • crazypete

      Comon guys. Obviously a troll. Probably gay atheist troll bored at work. Nothing else...

      May 16, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • NightOps

      Seriously? Yes, Atheism is a religion....but a DISEASE? I hardly think it's infection...nor does it physically destroy parts of your body (we can talk about the Spiritual realm all we want, but first both parties must BELIEVE in this before it can be entered into discussion about).

      WWJD, you may believe that you are speaking to an unbelieving world in truth, but you completely missed out on the LOVE. Jesus wouldn't do that, neither should you (aka – Go and do likewise).

      May 16, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • WWJD

      Atheism is disease AND religion

      People fear truth and that is bad for the message. They think truth equal hate but it not hate it is merely truth they fear it. Atheist will burn in hell and they deserve it for what they say about Jesus. Good riddance to them all!

      May 16, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • William Pelegrini

      you are 100% correct my friend..

      atheists are mostly mentally ill. Seriously. The rest of them are just emotionally disturbed. Usually their deep resentment come to the fact they "tried" church couple times, trying to "rix" stuff on their lives (you know..bargaining with God...you know?0

      trying to get a job, a disease in the family, even getting the lottery. And as The Lord is not tempted or give in to bargains, the answer did not come.

      I guess they think God is like on of these idols of all the other religions (including the moon idol called alah) that you bribe them with stuff to get something back..

      NO wonder the Bible call an atheist a FOOL. I just laugh at their "talking points". is just retarded. No logic, no reason, no sanity.
      ..can you believe these guys state the Bible says the world is flat????? LOL
      so much for three thousand years before Galileo, Isaiah already use the word "sphere" and "globe" to referred to the earth. The jewish people already knew since from Isaiah the world is a globe.
      ..OR...they use the passage when Satan show Jesus a vision of the world....you know what these one cell brains say? it is "proof" that the Bible considered the world flat!!!! a vision? ahahahahahah

      I mean, really....for me it is amazing how a human being be reduced to such limited, patheitc and poor existence...


      May 16, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • robbo

      WWJD... that doesn't even make sense.
      I may not be athiest, but you have no support for any of your claims at all. You didn't post one thing that can be backed up or supported in any way. I appreciate your creativity, but you don't get points for any facts.
      And its clear you've never bothered to speak seriously with any athiests. If you did, you would know how off base you are. Ride a bus and try and pick the athiests out of the crowd. Good luck.
      God gave us our minds and the power to use them. He would be ashamed of you for believing you already have the answers to everything. Try to use your mind. Learn about the people and the world around you. Enjoy the gift, don't throw it away!

      May 16, 2012 at 8:46 am |
    • blacksuntzu

      I'm curious as to why you think you have the right to judge when that right was God's and God's alone. Man was never to judge one another especially as to who enters heaven and hell. You might need to take a step back and look in the mirror and evaluate some of these views because some seem to show the anger and lack of compassion and love God demands of us. Just a thought and not a sermon.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • Cody

      I stopped reading after the satanic part. Atheists by definition cannot worship a Christian deity.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • religion is a curse on humanity

      And you preach hate...so I'll see you in Hell.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Leila

      Interesting. I hope you understand that saying something is "100% fact" means that it's a hypothesis or idea that's been proven, and you repeatedly say it has been proven but then don't provide any. Telling people that God says so isn't by itself going to be enough proof, friend. I can't even respond to most of your post because you clearly have decided to hate everyone and everything, so not much can be done about that. But just so you have the comfort of knowing that not everyone is an evil, devil-worshipping anti-christ, this atheist would like you to know that I have don't hate religion (as long as individual worshippers don't shoved it down the throats of others), that my job is to help the mentally ill, I have put myself in significant school debt to ensure I can continue working with the mentally ill, that I give to charity, love my family, treat everyone equally, and.... oh right, I'm not much of a Stalin or Hitler fanatic.

      May 16, 2012 at 9:35 am |
  16. It comes down to this...

    Psychotherapist needs Truth.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:18 am |
    • Kris

      WWJD,I am FREE to deny whatever I want and there's nothing YOU or anyone else can do about it. The "power of prayer" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Oh wait, after some dead guy came back to life and floated away into the clouds.

      "Kris the power of prayer has been proven. You are not able to deny this fact."

      May 16, 2012 at 8:38 am |
  17. BamaDaniel

    Can a plant be gay they procreate the way we do male and female.gay as a seed should be natural

    May 16, 2012 at 8:16 am |
    • Not a Scholar

      Plants, in many cases, have both the mail and female reproductive systems. It works better if they cross pollinate, but they don't need to. They can satisfy themselves. And guess what!! The Roman Catholic Church holds that as a sin also!! Your theory does not work.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • Not a Scholar

      ooops mail should be male...

      May 16, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • NightOps

      @Not A Scholar:
      Yes, self-satisfaction is considered a sin by the Roman Catholic Church...but that only applies to humans, not plants or animals – as they do not contain a soul. So, no, plants are not "living in sin"..lol

      May 16, 2012 at 8:38 am |
  18. Hilarious

    These replies are hilarious from both sides. There are more important things to discuss than who is with whom. In the end if you don’t have job, home or means to survive daily we ALL will be on the street. Let’s just learn to live with each other. You don’t have to believe in what someone is saying but do respect they have a right to their opinion. For the record I don’t think it is natural for same se.x’s to be together but that’s my opinion and they can do as they please. I don’t have to like it but it’s not my place or anyone else’s place to say so. While we bicker on these non issues, we are being divided for conquering by the people in power. Let’s move past this and focus on the bigger picture instead of this one frame.

    On a side note neither science nor religion has explained everything that we have questions for. We need to agree to disagree and fix what we have the ability to.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      I can say I don't like it freedom of speech

      May 16, 2012 at 8:18 am |
    • sam stone

      bama....freedom of speech does not apply to a company's website. so, keep bloviating your wisdom, and all the rest of us to bask in it.

      May 16, 2012 at 8:20 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Gladly just don't quote the Bible on me

      May 16, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • NightOps

      Where's the +1 or "Like" button for this? 😉 Well said!

      May 16, 2012 at 8:40 am |
  19. Syd

    And from a priest! Too bad rational discussions tend to fall on ignorant and arrogant ears.

    May 16, 2012 at 8:14 am |



    May 16, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      His life as long as he ain't trying to marry keep it in closet

      May 16, 2012 at 8:21 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.