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May 16th, 2012
04:25 PM ET

College drops health care plan over religious objections to new law

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) – A Catholic college in Ohio has apparently become the nation’s first to drop its health care plan because it opposes parts of the federal health care law signed by President Barack Obama.

The Franciscan University of Steubenville posted on its website last week that it is discontinuing its health care plan.

“The Obama Administration has mandated that all health insurance plans must cover ‘women’s health services’ including contraception, sterilization, and abortion-causing medications as part of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act,” the university says.

“We will not participate in a plan that requires us to violate the consistent teachings of the Catholic Church on the sacredness of human life,” the statement says.

The coverage includes emergency contraceptives such as Plan B, which can prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, but not drugs like RU-486, which can end an early pregnancy.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The school is also dropping its health insurance plan for students because the new health care law requires employers to provide more robust coverage, making it more expensive, said Tom Sofio, a spokesman for the Franciscan University of Steubenville.

“It was our own moral reasons and then the rising cost of health care because of the act,” Sofio said, explaining the university’s decision.

Sofio said school officials are not aware of another college that has dropped its health insurance plan out of disagreements with the federal health care law.

A spokeswoman for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, which is representing three religious schools that are challenging the health care law, said that she was also unaware of another college that had taken such action.

A spokeswoman with the Health and Human Services Department, charged with implementing the new health care law, said Wednesday that the department had no comment on the school’s decision and that it does not keep track of changes to college health insurance plans.

The Obama administration faced a firestorm of controversy from many religious groups this year over a proposed rule that would require employers to provide no-cost contraception coverage to their employees.

In what it called a compromise, the White House revised the rule to require health insurance companies – not employers – to provide contraception coverage, mollifying some Catholic critics. Other Catholic groups, including the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, are not satisfied by the revised rule.

The Roman Catholic Church opposes the use of contraception.

“We’re paying the health insurance company, and if they provide abortion-causing drugs, that’s against our religious beliefs,” Sofio said Wednesday.

About 200 of the Franciscan University of Steubenville's 2,500 students rely on the university health care plan, which costs about $50 a month, Sofio said. He said the school is retaining its health care plan for employees because it is hopeful that legal challenges to the health care law will prevent much of it from taking effect.

Sofio said that the school sent letters about its decision to students and parents in April and that it has received overwhelming support from both constituencies. Ninety-five percent of students at the university are Catholic, he said.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Politics

soundoff (1,561 Responses)
  1. Oz in OK

    Ah yes... let's value 'morality' and dogma more than the health and safety of our students... now there's some 'Christian' love for ya.

    May 17, 2012 at 9:30 am |
    • momoya

      You really can't blame them for acting exactly like the god of the bible: like a whiny, bratty toddler..

      May 17, 2012 at 9:34 am |
  2. Des Moiner

    Good! Most of these 'insurance plans' are designed to do one thing; generate profits. They're weak at best and some states even mandate 'coverage' if you don't have the ability to cover yourself. The big hullabaloo about insurance coverage is pure hysteria. Many people in their 40's and 50's didn't have health insurance until they graduated from college and got an actual, revenue-generating, job. These students will be fine without it.

    May 17, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • momoya

      So you think it's perfectly fine for an inst.itution like this to display behavior of a spiteful 4-year old because they can?!?!?! Interesting..

      May 17, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • chubby rain

      "These students will be fine without it."

      Except when they are not fine...
      While I agree that most kids in their 20s are healthy, you don't know if one may develop a serious illness or suffer a debilitating accident. That students life would be severely impacted, physically and financially, and they would be buried under more than their student debts. That is the whole point of health care insurance - to distribute the burden.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:54 am |
  3. Steve

    Religious tell WHAT occurred. Scientists tell HOW it occurred. They are not mutually exclusive thought processes.

    May 17, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • momoya

      Religion doesn't tell us what happened.. duh.. Besides, you've scr.ewed up the saying: science deals with "how," religion deals with "why.".

      The really cool thing that science can do is that it works whether or not you believe in it.. You can disbelieve in chemistry and still get high on alcohol.. With religion it's the opposite; you have to believe in it for it to work, but even when it "works" it's just the placebo affect.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:18 am |
    • mandarax

      I would argue that history and geology are far more reliable sources of what occurred. Religion provides ways assigning particular meanings to what occurred and how it occurred, but is limited by not having any kind of standards for evaluating the validity of those meanings.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      Religions do NOT tell what happened. That is the realm of the science of history. Religions attempt to find meaning. Since there is no inherent meaning in life or existence as a whole then religion is completely moot.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:20 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      And yet science is still unable explain how foliage, snakes and donkeys can talk.
      Science can't seem to figure out how exactly humans appeared fully evolved with a lifespan of over a thousand years only 6,000 years ago, nor how women were made via instantenous cloning from a male's rib.
      Or how a 500 year old man and his 3 sons were able to construct a 450 foot boat with every kind of terrestrial environment in the world to support every kind of animal in the world.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:10 am |
  4. Doc Vestibule

    This is akin to shutting down the cafeteria becuase vegans don't like milk and meat on the menu.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Tom

      **** "This is akin to shutting down the cafeteria becuase vegans don't like milk and meat on the menu."*****

      How about the analogy of going to a vegan restaurant and demanding burgers or a steak? That's what it is like for the Obama administration to demand that catholic schools provide contraceptive coverage.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • Bewildered

      agreed man

      May 17, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Tom, the law does not require the schools to provide anything they object to. The law requires that Insurance Companies provide the coverage to the insured (at no cost to the school).

      I don't see the objection, if you do please explain?

      May 17, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      Tom, nobody is "demanding" that people have to use the healthcare. It does, however, have to be provided to all people. since most catholics use birth control and many get abortions it is only logical to allow them to have healthcare to cover these.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • Tom

      ***** the law does not require the schools to provide anything they object to. *****

      The law forces Insurance companies to provide coverage for contraception that is paid for by consumers that don't subscribe to the belief of using contraceptives like the Catholics. In other words, a catholic who does not believe in using contraceptive has to pay additional insurance costs to cover the added benefit of providing contraceptives. Remember that additional costs of providing a new service is passed on to all subscribers of that insurance policy across the board.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • momoya

      Tom is arguing that a fat person on a diet who works at McDonalds can change their menu to match his Weight Watchers plan and fvck the paying customers.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Tom, your argument makes no sense. The premium you pay does not sit in a queue just waiting for you, it goes into a large pool that is then used to cover everyone that has a policy with that company. In a word, that school has already (read always) been paying for services they may not use themselves.

      Here is the issue, no on is forcing or even asking the insured woman to get the service, she is getting it because she wants to. If the school has in issue they should take it up with the employees or students they cover.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • Tom

      *** your argument makes no sense. ***

      Perhaps you need to spend some time understanding how insurance works. Insurance costs are driven simply by all the coverage they provide. Add more to the basket and costs go up for everyone. There is no imaginary place where insurance companies can draw additional funds to support added services.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Should a company run by a Jehovah's Witness have to provide health insurance since their religion prohibits blood transfusions?
      Should Christian Scientists pay the same insurance premiums even though they believe that prayer is the only kind of health care they need?
      Brigham Young University should cancel their health plan. After all, becuase Mormons are against alcohol they shouldn't have to contribute to insurance policies that cover liver transplants.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Tom, that's my point, they are already paying for it

      May 17, 2012 at 10:21 am |
  5. lunchbreaker

    "the school is retaining its health care plan for employees because it is hopeful that legal challenges to the health care law will prevent much of it from taking effect."

    That seems consistent. Any plan to get the student health coverage back after said hopeful prevention?

    May 17, 2012 at 8:45 am |
    • Steve

      I don't recall my college ever providing health coverage. Not beyond the oncampus clinic for minor issues.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:16 am |
    • momoya

      Really?? Every college I've attended through the years has offered coverage.. I a.ssumed that they all did..

      May 17, 2012 at 9:27 am |
  6. Mike Blackadder

    What a bunch of hypocrites. How many times do we hear you folks claiming that the religious right is stuffing their morals down your throats, when it is clear that in reality it is the other way around.

    The catholic church is opposed to the use of contraceptives. You suggest that they should have to buy them for their employees. Why can't people buy their own contraceptives? Is that really such a hardship? This is just so typical of the Obama administration and his cheerleaders to invent the notion that people have a right to FREE contraceptives, while usurping an essential right of others to freedom of conscience. Clearly intellectual honesty is not a strength of the progressive movement these days.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:45 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Maybe they should trust that thier fellow Catholics will not use the insurance on contraception. What's that? They can't? Sounds like they have bigger problems if their own congregation doesn't believe the teachings of thier own church.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:48 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      95% of catholics in the US and 98% of catholic women in the US use some form of birth control. This is completely contrary to the church's commands. There is NO reason not to give these people the opportunity to use what they are already using.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:51 am |
    • mandarax

      First, the church isn't forced to buy contraceptives – the insurance companies are required to cover them. Second, they are not provided to anyone for free – we pay for our insurance through premiums. Third, reproductive healthcare is basic healthcare and is considered a basic human right in other modern nations that are not in the stranglehold of religion. How in the world have we allowed ourselves to be convinced to not want modern, affordable healthcare?

      May 17, 2012 at 9:15 am |
    • andrew.peter

      It's not a matter of trusting the people on the plan not to use it. What is the point in having it covered if it's not used anyway?? Just for the sake of oppression.
      Also I have no problem with catholics going against the teachings of their church, but it's a whole different issue to force leaders in the church to provide what is contradictory to their own teachings. This is a blatant infringement on freedom of religion. Let those people go somewhere else or dance with the one who brought you.
      Enough said!

      May 17, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • momoya

      @AndrewPeter

      So you approve of an inst.itution of higher learning acting out of spite like a bratty 4-year old?? Interesting.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:28 am |
    • Tom

      **** the insurance companies are required to cover them ****

      This is a myth that is being perpetuated by the Obama Administration. Costs for providing additional services like contraceptives will be passed on to ALL consumers of the insurance policy, whether they use contraceptives or not. In simple terms, a fellow catholic who does not believe in using contraceptive would have to pay more money to get the same insurance coverage that he has been getting in order for somebody else to get free contraceptives. He/She is subsidizing the cost now.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • mandarax

      Yes, Tom, but that's also true for cancer, heart disease, viagra, bacterial infections, colds and flus, parasites, head lice, heart valves, and hemorrhoids. That's how this works. I will never have ovarian cancer (I'm a male), but I certainly support insurance covering it.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:48 am |
    • Tom

      *** I will never have ovarian cancer (I'm a male), but I certainly support insurance covering it. ***

      Deciding whether to purchase contraceptives over the counter or to be provided as part of insurance has no comparison to providing care for terminal diseases! They are apples and oranges.

      Think about buying auto insurance. You as a consumer have the ability to add all sorts of different coverage as you want (comprehensive, higher liability coverage etc) by paying an added fee. Someone who purchases basis coverage is not expected to receive premium support and is neither provided. And neither is someone expected to pay a higher premium when all he cares is basis coverage for an old car that he owns. This is true with those who want contraceptive coverage. They should pay the premium and not expect others to pay for it.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:58 am |
  7. A Reasoner

    Great idea! They eliminate the health care plan and the sheep will return to prayer and paying god, through church contributions of course, to heal. A health care plan conceived (pardon the word) and trusted through the ages...at least the dark ones.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • andrew.peter

      No I think this is the administration's plan anyway. Place too high of a burden on the employee based system so that they dump all their plans because it's too expensive. Then people are pushed into the "exchange", and after seeing the prices there, they'd be pleading for a single payer system. By then everyone will have forgotten the employer based system.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:29 am |
  8. scott

    So the school feels that providing no health care to their employees is better than providing health care with some yucky stuff in it? Doesn't sound very charitable to me.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:36 am |
  9. Honey Badger Dont Care

    That's it, punish the students for your own biggoted ideology. What a bunch of tools.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:34 am |
    • ammodawg79

      Don't like it, don't go to or work for that school. It is really that simple.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • momoya

      You sound exactly like the bus driver speaking to Rosa Parks.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:41 am |
  10. Slappy

    Apparently everyone is an expert on the Catholic Church and our teachings, too.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:18 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      most christians have no idea what it says in the bible.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:22 am |
  11. Slappy

    I'm sure glad CNN has provided a forum for so much enlightened discussion.

    May 17, 2012 at 8:07 am |
  12. Reality

    ONLY FOR NEW MEMBERS AND THOSE OF THE AGE OF FOURTEEN OR OLDER:

    Condoms are available over the counter. Make the Pill available over the counter and there will be no more debate.

    Planned Parenthood can offer deep discounts for those who say they cannot afford said protection.

    Or better yet, put a pack of condoms and a box of Pills in cereal boxes. Unfortunately, that would not ensure the condoms and/or Pills would be used. Based on Guttmacher Insti-tute data, said condoms and/or Pills are currently not being used as they should. (one million abortions/yr and 19 million cases of S-TDs/yr because either the daily Pill was not taken or a condom stayed in the pocket.)

    Maybe selling Pill-enriched sodas??? Hmmm?

    Condom-fitted briefs for men?? Hmmm? 🙂

    The door is open for other ideas!!!

    May 17, 2012 at 7:57 am |
  13. AGuest9

    Hopefully, there is a free clinic for their medical attention near-by, and a Planned Parenthood clinic for their contraceptive supplies.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:39 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      my fiance said the same thing. i hope you're right.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:44 am |
    • larry5

      There is no such thing as a free anything.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:57 am |
    • Duke5343

      Of course their is a planned parent hood, Wallmart or Target nearby or a short drive, Fluke was so dumb she did not know their was Planned hood 2 blocks from her school or she could get $9 birth control pills from Target-

      May 17, 2012 at 8:00 am |
    • Primewonk

      @ Duke – So you have a copy of Ms. Fluke's HIPAA protected medical records showing she can use a generic formulary BCP?

      Also "free" clinics and Planned Parenthood use a sliding fee scale. How do you know how much Ms. Fluke would pay? Have you also hacked into her financial records?

      Plus, it is the ignorant fundiots who also want to shut down Planned Parenthood, and would love to outlaw all contraception.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:18 am |
    • AGuest9

      larry5 – college students aren't paid to go to school. With no income, medical attention they would seek would have to be on a student insurance program (like I had when I was in college), or would have to be obtained at a public health clinic (free or low-cost). With no income, such clinics must provide services to patients for free if they receive government funding.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:16 am |
  14. Oriental People Aren't That Bad

    Here's another one! This one is hilarious!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0DdgSDan9c&feature=related

    May 17, 2012 at 7:28 am |
    • Scott

      This is funny but at the same time it's so unbelievably sad that in this day and ages people could be so stupid.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:38 am |
  15. Oriental People Aren't That Bad

    Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. Christian lunatics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEjEkffwO4

    May 17, 2012 at 7:14 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      "Circ.umvent your intelligence."
      - Kirk Cameron

      that says it all.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:18 am |
    • Kebos

      Cameron and Comfort (if that is his real name) have done that!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:21 am |
    • Yabba Dabba Don't

      It's really great that their own unalterred video is the most damning proof of their stupidity and dishonest argumentation, No explanations necessary.

      Very funny stuff.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 am |
  16. Oriental People Aren't That Bad

    When was the last time the catholic church did something other than rape children?

    May 17, 2012 at 7:04 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      how do you get a nun pregnant?

      dress her up like an altar boy.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:13 am |
    • Oriental People Aren't That Bad

      And don't pull out.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      of course you don't pull out. according to the bible, spilling your seed on the ground warrants the death penalty.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • Kebos

      A bit harsh, albeit somewhat valid. . I might say "when was the last time the Catholic church did anything relevant?"

      May 17, 2012 at 7:20 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      they've also oppressed women. don't think you're special, g.ays.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:36 am |
    • Reality

      Why did today's pope, prelates, preachers and rabbis, so focused on society's se-xual sins, lose sight of clerical se-xual sins?

      FEAR, SHAME and GUILT and COVER IT ALL UP!!!

      Obviously ordination in any religion is not assurance of good behavior !!!!!

      Neither is coronation!!! e.g. Henry VIII, King David.

      Neither is marriage as 50% of those men convicted of pedophilia are married.

      Neither is being elected president of the USA!! e.g. Billy "I did not have se-x with that girl" Clinton, John "Marilyn Monroe" Kennedy".

      Neither is possessing super athletic skill!!! e.g. Tiger "I am so sorry for getting caught" Woods.

      Neither is being an atheist or pagan since pedophilia is present in all walks of life.

      If someone is guilty of a crime in this litany of "neithers" they should or should have been penalized as the law dictates to include jail terms for pedophiliacs (priests, rabbis, evangelicals, boy scout leaders, married men/women), divorce for adultery (Clinton, Kennedy, Woods), jail terms for obstruction of justice (Clinton, Cardinal Law) and the death penalty or life in prison for murder ("Kings David and Henry VIII).

      May 17, 2012 at 8:00 am |
  17. martog

    Rather than inculcating our children with the primary-color simple Sunday school legends and myths most people do, might I suggest the following ten comandments to enable them to think for themselves.
    1. DO NOT automatically believe something just because a parent, priest, rabbi or minister tells you that you must.
    2. DO NOT think that claims about magic and the supernatural are more likely true because they are written in old books. That makes them less likely true.
    3. DO analyze claims about religion with the same critical eye that you would claims about money, political positions or social issues.
    4. DO NOT accept it when religious leaders tell you it is wrong to question, doubt or think for yourself. It never is. Only those selling junk cars get frightened when you want to "look under the hood".
    5. DO decouple morality from a belief in the supernatural, in any of its formulations (Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc.). One can be moral without believing in gods, ghosts and goblins and believing in any of them does not make one moral.
    6. DO a bit of independent research into whatever book you were brought up to believe in. Who are its authors and why should I believe them in what they say? How many translations has it gone through? Do we have originals, or only edited copies of copies of copies– the latter is certainly true for every single book in the Bible.
    7. DO realize that you are only a Christian (or Hindu or Jew) because of where you were born. Were you lucky enough to be born in the one part of the World that “got it right”?
    8. DO NOT be an apologist or accept the explanation “your mind is too small to understand the greatness of god” or “god moves in mysterious ways” when you come upon logical inconsistencies in your belief. A retreat to mysticism is the first refuge of the cornered wrong.
    9. DO understand where your religion came from and how it evolved from earlier beliefs to the point you were taught it. Are you lucky enough to be living at that one point in history where we “got it right”?
    10. DO educate yourself on the natural Universe, human history and the history of life on Earth, so as to be able to properly evaluate claims that a benevolent, mind-reading god is behind the whole thing.
    I sometimes think that, if we first taught our children these simple guidelines, any religion or other supernatural belief would be quickly dismissed by them as quaint nostalgia from a bygone era. I hope we get there as a species.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:48 am |
    • Kalessin

      1. DO NOT automatically believe something just because a parent, priest, rabbi, minister OR SCIENTIST tells you that you must.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:51 am |
    • martog

      Scientsts don't tell YOU to believe. They present you with FACTS and let you make up your own mind.....assuming you have one

      May 17, 2012 at 6:53 am |
    • Kalessin

      Ah..but their are many atheist sheep that expect people to do that.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:55 am |
    • atheist fred

      @Kalessin

      Scientists don’t tell you what you MUST believe. They simply present the findings of their research and let you decide for yourself what to believe. I know this is a foreign concept to you, but it is the reality that exists outside the shackles of religion.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:57 am |
    • Oriental People Aren't That Bad

      SHEEP. Those are reserved for southern folk. They are a gift for the righteous. To bang.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:58 am |
    • Kalessin

      @atheist fred- "I know this is a foreign concept to you, but it is the reality that exists outside the shackles of religion."

      As foreign as you having an open mind no doubt. Please...continue being very judgemental and a hypocrite.
      I love the fact (you know those right?) that my faith or lack thereof has yet to be mentioned. Do you always show off your ignorance so readily?

      May 17, 2012 at 6:59 am |
    • atheist fred

      @Kalessin
      “Ah..but their are many atheist sheep that expect people to do that.”

      Example please.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:00 am |
    • Oriental People Aren't That Bad

      Hey friends, god doesn't exist. Not sure why you're bickering.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:03 am |
    • atheist fred

      @Kalessin
      I’d say it’s a pretty safe assumption based on the fact that you felt the need to throw scientists into the list of who not to trust that you are religious. Please explain how I’m being closed minded or hypocritical.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:07 am |
    • WASP

      @kale: here is a comparison as to what a scienctist offers and what a preacher offers; i will use my self in both situations.let's say you have a toothache i walk up to you, produce a microscope, take a swab of the inside of your mouth, place it on a culture disk and show you all the little bacteria through the microscope naming each and their effects on your body. that is the scienctific explaination as to what is going on inside your mouth that you can't see.

      next example. i walk up to you tell you that you have problems with you mouth because you haven't prayed and been a dedicated christian, instruct you to return to church and your mouth will be healed. that's all i offer no proof, just my own interrptation of what is wrong with you.

      which would you more likely believe, the person that showed you the bacteria giving you the toothache or the person that said it was your fault then walked away?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:09 am |
    • martog

      Fred, give it up. You cannot have a rational discussion with Irrational(religious) people. Their delusions cloud all their thoughts. They cannot seperate beliefs from facts, A BIG part of the reason this country is in a downward spiral back to the dark ages.....

      May 17, 2012 at 7:10 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Wasp

      great post.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • Kalessin

      @atheist fred- "Example please."

      You knew to these boards? Stick around, you'll see enough examples.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • Kalessin

      Lol..need my coffee....I meant "new"

      May 17, 2012 at 7:20 am |
    • WASP

      @booty: thanks i try my best.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:22 am |
    • Kalessin

      "which would you more likely believe, the person that showed you the bacteria giving you the toothache or the person that said it was your fault then walked away?"

      Lol...your second example is faulty at best. I know of no one that would say that. Maybe there are some ppl that might feel that way but it would be quite few.
      Also....why do the atheist sheep think that there is this great divide between science and faith? For those that believe in God who gave them their faith...most also believe that God gave us the intellect for science.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:24 am |
    • Kalessin

      @martog- "You cannot have a rational discussion with Irrational(religious) people."

      ~Yeah..much better to write them all off like a closed minded bigot. So much better right?
      BTW, what discussion? It was just copy/paste on his part.

      "Their delusions cloud all their thoughts."

      ~What delusions? Be careful not to make broad generalizations you cannot give evidence to the contrary of.

      "They cannot seperate beliefs from facts,"

      ~Well...that's just a bold face lie.

      "A BIG part of the reason this country is in a downward spiral back to the dark ages....."

      ~Lol....you can hear that same statement in many different places of worship about the secular world.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:30 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      "~What delusions? Be careful not to make broad generalizations you cannot give evidence to the contrary of."

      delusion: god exists.

      the responsibility of proof lies with the one making the claim. you say god exists - prove it.

      your logic is terrible. prove i'm not god. i must be then, since you can't prove it, right? bow down and worship me!!!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • atheist fred

      @Kalessin
      Copy/paste? Are you sniffing glue man? What the fuck part of my post was copy/paste. You also have not explained to me how I’m being closed minded or hypocritical.

      It’s crystal clear now which camp you lie in, so why horse shit about me assuming you’re religious?

      As for your reply to WASP, he was speaking metaphorically, not literally to emphasize that one side has evidence to back up its claims and the other has none.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:41 am |
    • Kalessin

      "delusion: god exists."

      Now prove the alternative. If you can. Hint: claiming the proving the negative will result in a FAIL

      "the responsibility of proof lies with the one making the claim. you say god exists – prove it."

      ~Actually...I made no initial claim. You stated the first claim by saying God is a delusion.

      "your logic is terrible. prove i'm not god. i must be then, since you can't prove it, right? bow down and worship me!!!"

      ~Actually...that claim is quite illogical since you already stated that God is a delusion to you. Are you a delusion of yourself?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • atheist fred

      @Kalessin
      You can’t prove that god does not exist anymore than you can’t prove that a fluffy unicorn orbits the earth and is only visible to those who believe in him. Your inability to understand that is the only FAIL I see.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      Kalessin

      "delusion: god exists."

      Now prove the alternative. If you can. Hint: claiming the proving the negative will result in a FAIL
      prove the alternative? what's the alternative?

      "the responsibility of proof lies with the one making the claim. you say god exists – prove it."

      ~Actually...I made no initial claim. You stated the first claim by saying God is a delusion.
      god is a delusion. he doesn't exist. you don't claim god is real? you're gonna burn in hell, sinner! lol.

      "your logic is terrible. prove i'm not god. i must be then, since you can't prove it, right? bow down and worship me!!!"

      ~Actually...that claim is quite illogical since you already stated that God is a delusion to you. Are you a delusion of yourself?

      god is a delusion is delusional? stop babbling. make just a little sense. what are you even asking? you don't seem dumb, but you do seem in need of a basic logic & reasoning class.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • WASP

      @kale:"Lol...your second example is faulty at best. I know of no one that would say that. Maybe there are some ppl that might feel that way but it would be quite few.
      Also....why do the atheist sheep think that there is this great divide between science and faith? For those that believe in God who gave them their faith...most also believe that God gave us the intellect for science."

      faith:1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
      2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
      3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
      4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
      5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
      6. A set of principles or beliefs.

      my second example is exactly what religion offers people, they don't ever have anything to show you or anything the proves them correct. they simply have to start early and continue to groom you all the way into adulthood, then it is set in the mind like concrete. the adult mind isn't fluid like a childs; it's structured; what most learn as children they carry on into adulthood. the number one thing i adore about most religious folk, is they require a punishment/reward system just like a child to be a good person.....and they don't even realize the church treats them as children. as a child i was told "i should be seen and not heard" if i broke this rule i was punished, if i followed it i was rewarded. i now do things because i want to, there isn't anything after this life for me so i aim to make this life and this world as good as i can before my time is up. earth would be truly an amazing place if everyone wasn't waiting for god to come back and play house maid.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:08 am |
    • Primewonk

      Kalessin wrote, " 1. DO NOT automatically believe something just because a parent, priest, rabbi, minister OR SCIENTIST tells you that you must."

      The simple fact that you continue to insist that scientists tell you what you must believe, just reinforces the fact that you purposefully choose to be ignorant about, science, scientists, and the scientific method.

      Either that, or you are purposefully lying.

      Which is it? Ignorance or lies?

      May 17, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • Kalessin

      @atheist fred- "Copy/paste?"

      ~I was referencing Martog's original comment when I said that, not your post. Sorry for the confusion.

      "It’s crystal clear now which camp you lie in, so why horse shi't about me assuming you’re religious?"

      ~The camp where I won't dismiss or insult a person's faith or belief just because it might not jive with what I feel about things. Yep...shame on me.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • Kalessin

      @atheist fred- "You can’t prove that god does not exist anymore than you can’t prove that a fluffy unicorn orbits the earth and is only visible to those who believe in him. Your inability to understand that is the only FAIL I see."

      ~So sad the state of the people that comment on here. I never told you to prove God doesn't exist you silly piece of intellectual flotsam. I asked you to prove the alternative. I will guess that you feel that the concept of God (we'll go with the Judeo-Christian God in this case) was created by a human. Please prove that with evidence.
      I hope you understood this time.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:41 am |
    • Kalessin

      @WASP- your mostly factless opinion has been noted. I would guess that someone raised in an atheist home that turns out to be Christian wouldn't work well with your theory.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • Kalessin

      @Primewonk- "The simple fact that you continue to insist that scientists tell you what you must believe, just reinforces the fact that you purposefully choose to be ignorant about, science, scientists, and the scientific method."

      ~Wow...guess the fact that I clarified my statement about the atheist sheep that would believe a scientist just because they are one went right over your head eh?
      You do realize that there are those of the scientific community that would say you must believe in the results and studies of their trade or you will be labeled as ignorant. Not as harsh as an eternity in hell or such but still.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:48 am |
    • Colin

      "I will guess that you feel that the concept of God (we'll go with the Judeo-Christian God in this case) was created by a human. Please prove that with evidence."

      At one level, just another way of saying "prove god does not exist", which, as I think we all agree, is like saying, "prove leprechauns don't exist." It is very easy to show how the Judeo Christian god is an invention of man, though.

      1. Only in late Bronze Age Palestine had anybody heard of this god. The millions of people living elsewhere in the World had never heard of it. All of the people living in China, Eaurope, Africa, India, the Australian Aboriginals had never heard of it until humans from Palestine gradually moved out and "spread the word".

      Does it really make sense that a being would create the an all-knowing, all-powerful, immortal being created the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies 13,720,000,000 years ago (the age of the Universe) sat back and waited 10,000,000,000 years for the Earth to form, then waited another 3,720,000,000 years for human beings to gradually evolve, then, at some point gave them eternal life and sent its son to Earth to talk about sheep and goats in the Middle East.

      While here, this divine visitor exhibits no knowledge of ANYTHING outside of the Iron Age Middle East, including the other continents, 99% of the human race, and the aforementioned galaxies.

      Second, does it not appear to you a little silly that, of all the countless millions of people, this god would make the Jews its "chosen race" and obsess with giving them a host of rules, most relevant only to farmingcommunities. Hmmm, did god creat the Jewish farmers or did the Jewish farmers create God....

      Next, the stories of Christianity are not even original. They are borrowed directly from earlier mythology from the Middle East. Genesis and Exodus, for example, are clearly based on earlier Babylonian myths such as The Epic of Gilgamesh, and the Jesus story itself is straight from the stories about Apollonius of Tyana, Ho.rus and Dionysus (including virgin birth, the three wise men, the star in the East, birth at the Winter solstice, a baptism by another prophet, turning water into wine, crucifixion and rising from the dead).

      Next, the Bible is also literally infested with contradictions, outdated morality, and open support for the most barbarous acts of cruelty – including, genocide, murder, slavery, r.ape and the complete subjugation of women. All of this is due to when and where it was written, the morality of the times and the motives of its authors and compilers. While this may be exculpatory from a literary point of view, it also screams out the fact that it is a pure product of man, bereft of any divine inspiration.

      By the way, we have no idea of who wrote the four Gospels, how credible or trustworthy they were, what ulterior motives they had (other than to promote their religion) or what they based their views on. We know that the traditional story of it being Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is almost certainly wrong. For example, the Gospel of Matthew includes a scene in which Jesus meets Matthew, recounted entirely in the third person!! Nevertheless, we are called upon to accept the most extraordinary claims by these unknown people, who wrote between 35 to 65 years after Christ died and do not even claim to have been witnesses. It is like taking the word of an unknown Branch Davidian about what happened to David Koresh at Waco – who wrote 35 years after the fact and wasn’t there.

      When backed into a corner, Judeo-Christianity admits it requires a “leap of faith” to believe it. However, once one accepts that pure faith is a legitimate reason to believe in something (which it most certainly is not, any more than “faith” that pixies exist is) one has to accept all other gods based on exactly the same reasoning. One cannot be a Christian based on the “leap of faith” – and then turn around and say those who believe in, for example, the Hindu gods, based on the same leap, got it wrong. In a dark room without features, any guess by a blind man at the direction of the door is as valid as the other 359 degrees.

      Geography and birthplace dictates what god(s) one believes in. Every culture that has ever existed has had its own gods and they all seem to favor that particular culture, its hopes, dreams, and prejudices. Do you think they all exist? If not, why only yours?

      No, Kalessein, faith is not even belief in a god. It is a mere hope for a god, a wish for a god, no more substantial than the hope for a good future and no more substantial that the "hope for a good future" and no more universal universal than the language you speak or the baseball team you support.

      We are a frightened little species and we need to avoid the inevitablility of death. We create our gods to do just that and to explain those parts of nature we cannot explain or control. Fortunately, the penetrating light of science and knowledge has flushed this "god of the gaps" out of his hiding place. He is now forced to inhabit those few remaining dark patches science has not yet fully exposed. The origins of life is one, the uncritical mind of the believer is another.

      Either that, or it all started 6,000 years ago with one man, one woman and a talking snake. Either way “oh come on” just doesn’t quite capture it.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:01 am |
    • momoya

      Kalessin doesn't argue with concepts but does the only thing she can: She simply plays with words–no arguments–no meanings–no point–no reason.. Just twist and contort every word that comes down the pike.. What she fails to realize is that anybody can do what she's dooing–the rest of us have just moved past such a middle schooler tactic.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:14 am |
    • momoya

      Incredible post, Colin!

      Now watch Kalessin dodge every single worthy argument and instead focus on some weird stupidity: "I never said I wear cotton-poly blends!!! Who told you that, or are you just A.SSUMING again like your scientist priests?! I haven't worn cotton-poly blends in decades!"

      May 17, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • Kalessin

      "At one level, just another way of saying "prove god does not exist", which, as I think we all agree, is like saying, "prove leprechauns don't exist." It is very easy to show how the Judeo Christian god is an invention of man, though."

      ~Hmmm....this seems like another way to say you're too intellectually lazy to do it.

      Pretty much everything that follows is from Colin's used up copy/pastings. He does not show who created this peticular concept of God, precisely where or when. Not very scientific on his part.
      Not to mention that no one ever called the Jews God's "chosen race". Perhaps he meant chosen people. There is a difference.
      The criticism of the Torah/Tanakh/NT also does not answer the questions of who created this concept of God. Just that Colin thinks everyone (or vast majority) in Christianity are literalists.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • momoya

      What did I tell you?!?!? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

      May 17, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • WASP

      @kale: " your mostly factless opinion has been noted. I would guess that someone raised in an atheist home that turns out to be Christian wouldn't work well with your theory."

      now explain to me how my statement is factless and your bible is factful? on your point of the atheist child turned christian that person will always have doubts about the truth of the bible, but being human we are capable of making our own choices in life. i love how you dodged the whole faith, belief thing. very nicely done. religion provides no proof of anything, they have a few key places mentioned just to lend credit to their stories, but so does any good work of fiction.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- How shocking...momoya agrees with Colin. Amazing how ppl tend to praise those that spout off exactly what they believe themselves.

      "Kalessin doesn't argue with concepts but does the only thing she can: She simply plays with words–no arguments–no meanings–no point–no reason.."

      ~Hmm, read the Dilbert comic strip this morning. It applies to you here.

      "Just twist and contort every word that comes down the pike.. What she fails to realize is that anybody can do what she's dooing–the rest of us have just moved past such a middle schooler tactic."

      ~Lol...this is a comment board silly. We cannot exactly do much except use words and debate. It's funny when people get flustered and make the error of claiming superiority through insults.

      "Now watch Kalessin dodge every single worthy argument and instead focus on some weird stupidity:"

      ~I dodged nothing. But I did point out that in all that Colinesque copy/paste that he didn't asnwer the question of who created the concept of God. Sure he gave some very va_gue responses and if you want say that's well thought out science...that's your cross to bear.
      Lol..scientist priests...that's funny. I'm sorry that you just cannot accept that there are atheist sheep out there that will believe a scientist with the same faith as some will believe a priest.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • Kalessin

      @WASP- "now explain to me how my statement is factless and your bible is factful?"

      ~I apologize if you did not mean that a person of faith has to be groomed from youth.
      As for the Bible (I don't have a Bible that's all my own), what are you meaning? It has facts within it right?

      "on your point of the atheist child turned christian that person will always have doubts about the truth of the bible, but being human we are capable of making our own choices in life."

      ~There is nothing wrong with doubt on occasion. It's good for a person to reexamine their beliefs from time to time. And if that person in question researched, examined and came to the conclusion that Christianity is for them...would you respect that choice in their life?

      "religion provides no proof of anything,"

      ~The absence of proof is not evidence to the contrary.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • momoya

      LOL, I was talking ABOUT Kalessin, not to her!! I think Kalessin is just barely smart enough to realize just how fvcking stupid her posts are, but she's not smart enough to realize that everybody can smell her intellectual dishonest a mile away.. Deep down, she knows she doesn't have a single argument, so she pretends that her shifting position (depending on what the other person says) is somehow a stable and reliable god-belief.. Too bad her god can't show her what a complete fvcking moron she proves herself to be in every single post she makes.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • momoya

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwwvBygoFA

      May 17, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- calm yourself. Trying to paint me as dishonest doesn't help your argument (whatever it is since this last post of yours is just a lot of whining).
      You want everyone of faith to fit in your little world view so you can rest your little mind. Sadly, There are more things in heaven and earth, momyo, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • momoya

      @ Kalessin

      Okay, now I'm talking to you..

      Back to your first stupid statement: Scientists tell people that they MUST believe something or another..

      Are you ready to apologize for making such an obviously stupid statement.. I think it's time for you to if you want to ever be taken seriously again by anyone contributing to this thread..

      I wish that other people here would hold you accountable when you say absolutely asinine sh!t that basically amounts to LIE on your part.. My hope would be that on every single post you make someone from this thread comes along and asks you to deal with your stupid statements on this thread.. You're absolute fvckwad when you just abandon your previous, stupid statements and just continue on with even more stupid statements..

      NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! fvck you!! You don't get to move on to another square when you didn't get the first one or twelve honestly, but just sh!t all over them so that nobody wants to deal with them anymore.. Well, you know what, that's over.. You need to have your nose rubbed in all the sh1t you've spread around here and you need your hind end swatted with a newspaper.. You act like an untrained puppy; you get treated like an untrained puppy..

      Now either show positive proof of YOUR FIRST STUPID STATEMENT (scientists tell people what they MUST believe) or apologize.. When we get done there, I'll show you your next stupid statement, rub your nose in the diarrhea you sh!t out for "number two" issue raised, and we'll continue down the line from one stupid azz statement to the next..

      Looking forward to it, momoya

      May 17, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Colin

      Kalessien, first , it is not copy/pasting – well it is, but from my own work – as are the ten commandments that Momoya posted.

      Momoya, can you post the link to that video, it is really good.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- thank you for showing your superiority through O'reillyesque name calling. It's really you 😉

      "Are you ready to apologize for making such an obviously stupid statement.. I think it's time for you to if you want to ever be taken seriously again by anyone contributing to this thread.. "

      ~Actually...I only added the word scientists to an already stupid statement. But I forgive you.
      Lol...there are very very few people on here that I ever begin to worry about. I would say there are only three people I've met on here that know how to carry on a fun and informative debate without resorting to cursing and puffing themselves up.

      "I wish that other people here would hold you accountable..."

      ~Are we being intellectually lazy again? Expect others to bail you out eh? Most of what you wrote after this was just more whining. Typical when backed into a corner.

      "Now either show positive proof of YOUR FIRST STUPID STATEMENT (scientists tell people what they MUST believe) or apologize.."

      ~HAHAHA...oh my gosh you are dense. I will assume you just missed a comment from above.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • Kalessin

      @Colin- That's right...sorry about that. It is your original work. I forgot.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • momoya

      So you're not going to apologize for making such an absolutely stupid statement?!? Gee what a shocker.. One thing I can say about you is that you're always consistent.. You never give anybody a chance to believe you have anything worthwhile to say because of your fvcked up reasoning that you demonstrate in every post..

      Your a disgusting individual, you liar.. Please post as much as you can.. I would greatly appreciate it if you do.. Thanks a bunch!! 🙂

      May 17, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • momoya

      @Colin

      The link:.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwwvBygoFA. (Take of periods at beginning and end)

      Qualia Soup, Theramin Trees, and Dark Matter 2525 have all really done some excellent videos on much of the stupidity god believers use.. Some of the vids focus more on proper reasoning (Qualia Soup mostly) and some of them simply mock the stupidity of god-believer beliefs (DarkMatter2525), but they all focus on really good points..

      May 17, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- "So you're not going to apologize for making such an absolutely stupid statement?!?"

      ~You are at fault on a few things. You think the statement was stupid. I am curious if you thought it was stupid before I put "scientists" in there. As I said before, there are scientists (and atheist sheep) that think one must believ in what they say or you will be labelled as ignorant. Again, as I said before, not as bad as the idea of hell but still.

      "You never give anybody a chance to believe you have anything worthwhile to say because of your fvcked up reasoning that you demonstrate in every post.."

      ~Lol...you think I care about what anyone thinks on here? How naive.

      "Your a disgusting individual, you liar.. Please post as much as you can.. I would greatly appreciate it if you do.. Thanks a bunch!! "

      ~More O'reilly like behavior on your part. How precious.
      Hey...I want you to be happy. I'll keep posting 🙂

      May 17, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Kalessin

      Taking a step back to examine what started this. Martog took something of Colin's and posted it:
      "1. DO NOT automatically believe something just because a parent, priest, rabbi or minister tells you that you must."

      I threw in "scientists" into the mix and all the crazies came out. I think the problem is with the "that you must" aspect. Of course scientists won't say you must believe in what they say or you'll go to whatever hell would be to a scientist. But, and many people on this comment board serves as an example, if you do not believe what a scientist (science in general) says..then you are dismissed as if you have nothing to contribute.
      I find this very funny since this is a belief comment board. Most ppl of faith on here don't just dismiss a person if they don't believe their theology outright. Ok....maybe "most" might be a bit hopeful.
      Heck...I say question everyone and everything.

      May 17, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • momoya

      @Kalessin

      Again, you refuse to apologize for telling an OBVIOUSLY stupid lie.. That's just the type of person you are.. Everybody who reads your posts knows this.. You lie, unashamedly, and then just backpedal and play word games to keep from having to address your lies and your obvious stupidity.. Your fvcking stupid.. It's obvious.. And you're a dovchenozzle worthless liar in how you approach your subject.. It's sickening to see you in action.. It's literally revolting.. It's hard for me to eat after I read you disgusting little foolish diatribes.. You're that fvcking revolting.. You disgust others with your lying, sh1tty behavior.. You're like old, curdled milk going down a child's throat who took a chug without looking at the expiration date..

      As long as you keep replying to my posts I'll assume you care what I think.. I care about what you think, just so you know..

      And once more; you're a disgusting, disgusting, disgusting individual.. I hope you post more and more around here to be an example for those who believe like you do but tend to act with more reasoning..

      May 17, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Kalessin

      The secondary focus was on the comment about God being a delusion. I asked for a person to prove the alternative. Meaning, if one thinks that the concept of the Judeo-Christian God is a delusion, then someone specific must have created the concept. Logical thought right?
      All I ask is that under the same guidelines that atheists ask Christians to prove God exists....that they prove that the concept of God was created by a specific human. All that is required is the evidence of who did it, where, when, how and why.

      Colin was the only one to try really. Colin is usually the only person on the atheist (non-religious) side of things that tries to give good answers. While his comment was compelling, I felt it didn't answer the question to the specifics that atheists require those of the Christian faith to prove God. Am I wrong?

      May 17, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • momoya

      Kalessin, when are you going to apologize for your lying comment and your fvcking azzhole behavior here?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- "Again, you refuse to apologize for telling an OBVIOUSLY stupid lie.."

      ~No lie...at least you have yet to prove it.

      "Everybody who reads your posts knows this.."

      ~Argumentum ad populum FAIL

      "As long as you keep replying to my posts I'll assume you care what I think.. I care about what you think, just so you know.."

      ~Cute tactic but another fail. I reply because it's fun. Most of the time on here there are only a few ppl that bring up good point or thought provoking comments that I enjoy. Most of the time it's comment like yours where you rant and wail. Sort of like America's Funniest Home Videos on a comment board.

      "I hope you post more and more around here to be an example for those who believe like you do but tend to act with more reasoning.."

      ~You still think I worry about others. Get out of that searching for approval phase you're in.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • momoya

      @K

      You just can't keep from lying, can you?? You do it in every post.. I'm glad to see it.. Keep up the great advertisements that explain just what sort of lying dipsh!t you really are.. Keep posting!!!

      You're a liar and you're stupid, but you're not a good enough liar or stupid enough to keep yourself from realizing that I'm right.. Keep on lying, K, it's your only talent.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- always love it when people think they will win the "out last you" stuff.
      You know...there was a person that said something along the lines that if you keep saying something enough, ppl will eventually believe it. Even if it's not true. You must live by that 😉
      Sadly, calling me names don't make it true or any of your now lost point valid.
      Be back later...don't want you to think I've abandoned you. Curious to see how long you can keep up. The last time I did this it went for a month and a half 🙂

      May 17, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • momoya

      K, please keep lying with abject stupidity.. It's worked very well so far for me and the side I'm on..

      I've decided that I don't want you to apologize, now.. I also want you to post MORE of your stupid sh!t... Please? You don't have to do anything different, really.. You just need to post a bit more..but otherwise exactly the same.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • momoya

      @K

      Hahahahahahahahahah!!! You mock the "outlast you" method and then you admit to doing it for a month!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

      I don't give a crap about "outlasting" you because YOU won't outlast YOU.. You're going to keep posting stupid sh!t with the more disgusting arrogance than Kim Jong Il.. I don't have to comment on your stupid sh1t.. It's obvious.. You just don't realize how obvious your stupidity is.. You've underestimated yourself.. The only thing I want you to do is keep it up.. Let everybody get to experience your disgusting sh!t.. That's what I want.

      You're a disgusting, stupid liar.. It's just who you are.. You can't help it.. I just want you to show it to everyone on these boards each and every day as much as possible.. Hope to see you soon, maybe in another thread where you will say arrogantly say something stupid because you can't help it.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- don't get all upset that I pointed out that you are playing the outlast you game. The other person decided they wanted to do that and I indulged them like I am you.

      Hmmm..interesting, never saw someone commit a Reductio ad Kimum

      May 17, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • martog

      Like I said earlier in this thread...you cannot have a rational discussion with an irrational(religious) person. They have had YEARS and YEARS to twist and turn everything in the bible into whatever they want it to mean. What makes you think they won't do the same with everything around them..including everything posted in this thread. But, I do love the 'copy and paste' BS comment..... As if everytime anyone(including Colin) should post, it should be retyped from scratch and would therefore somehow have more meaning. Yea, that makes sense....just like praying and believing in Fairy Tales(oops, I meant bible facts.).

      May 17, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • momoya

      Exactly, martog.. Which is exactly why I hope that ignorant git Kalessin keeps showing the readers how just how stupid religion will make a person..

      May 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • momoya

      @Kalessin

      Look, it's exactly like you to call a person dumb and then humor them for a long time.. That you can't see how it demonstrates you're as stupid as a box of rocks is why you're so fun to have around.. Please keep posting–all over the place!!!

      May 17, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • Kalessin

      @martog- "Like I said earlier in this thread...you cannot have a rational discussion with an irrational(religious) person."

      ~Interesting, many might say the same about a cold closed minded non-religious person. Luckily, there are those that don't block out what others say just because they might not agree with them.

      "But, I do love the 'copy and paste' BS comment..... As if everytime anyone(including Colin) should post, it should be retyped from scratch and would therefore somehow have more meaning."

      ~As with a comment I made...it is different with Colin when he repastes his own writing. At least I know he realizes what he wrote. Other ppl that just take his stuff to throw up...I doubt they do.

      "Fairy Tales(oops, I meant bible facts.)."

      ~Tsk tsk....I would have thought you were a bit more intelligent than to make such a gross inaccurate comparisson. Oh well..can't expect you to be rational.

      May 17, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "Which is exactly why I hope that ignorant git Kalessin keeps showing the readers how just how stupid religion will make a person.."

      Yes, because it is so obvious that being a non-religiou person makes you much more elegant and intellectual. Why..just look at all the wonderful and enlightened cursing that momyo has thrown about. Lol.

      May 17, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Kalessin

      @momoya- "Look, it's exactly like you to call a person dumb and then humor them for a long time.. That you can't see how it demonstrates you're as stupid as a box of rocks is why you're so fun to have around.. Please keep posting–all over the place!!!"

      ~Lol...again...reference today's Dilbert. It is sooo you.
      Hehe...and you are a bit late with the "fun" part. I already claimed that..get with the program kid.

      May 17, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • martog

      It's clear that 'someone'(Kalessin) feels the need to get in the last post on everything he/she/it replies to further showing how irrational and obsessing he/she/it is. I'm sorry that all the logic and facts presented here in this little thread has failed in anyway to to stop your circular logic and twisting everything to fit into your delusion. PLease, seek professional help. After reading so much of your 'thought' I think you really are having delusions. If not, than you are a VERY GOOD TROLL.

      May 17, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
    • Kalessin

      It's clear that 'someone'(martog) feels the need to get in the last post on everything he/she/it replies to further showing how irrational and obsessing he/she/it is. I'm sorry that all the logic and facts presented here in this little thread has failed in anyway to to stop your circular logic and twisting everything to fit into your delusion. PLease, seek professional help. After reading so much of your 'thought' I think you really are having delusions. If not, than you are a VERY GOOD TROLL.

      Lol....Martog...plz, the troll stuff is the last card of a very weak deck to play from. If you would have paid attention I tried to keep on the topics being discussed. However, some decided to take it all too personally and begin throwing names about and such. Very entertaining but very tragic as well.
      My, you are humorous. What delusions are you talking about? What circular reasoning? Be specific you piece of flotsam.

      May 17, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
  18. Salukai

    It is hypocritical for them to keep it for their employees but not the students. Either they object to it or they don't. Also, I bet that they don't object to the fact that the policy covers Viagra for all men, including those men who are not married or men who might, just might (God forbid) be gay.

    The students and their families are not that upset about it because the new law also requires companies to let young people stay on family coverage a lot longer. So, the new law is helping the college dump its student policy by providing a way for most students to be covered anyway. This college is making a hollow "moral statement". If they dump employee coverage for objection to family planning issues in general, including Viagra, then they would be making more of a statement.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:45 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      they knew the employees would quit. students? they'll just have their parents pay for it.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:17 am |
  19. Hypocrisy personified

    "... violate the consistent teachings of the Catholic Church... " What a joke. The Catholic church is as hypocritical as they come.

    They consistently taught that eating fish on Friday was out... and divorce was out... and remarriage was out. But they lost too many members from their "flock of sheep" because of their high-and-mighty unrelenting edits, which translated to money, power, and control down the drain.

    Now they "consistently teach" that all of those things are okay, but some only if you pay them off in advance.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:38 am |
  20. Oriental People Aren't That Bad

    It is a known fact that the Catholic church requires each and every adult member to bang at least one small child in order to attain salvation. This is how the church has managed to survive for so long. It is also their main source of income.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:36 am |
    • Oriental People Aren't That Bad

      Actually..I know nothing. Please forgive me for being so full of myself.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:47 am |
    • Oriental People Aren't That Bad

      It isn't painfully goddamn obvious that an easily offended little peckerwood nancyboy fancylad is upset about something I said.

      Oh the HORRID revenge of a nancyboy scorned on the internets! Need some puffs plus with the finest lotions money can buy from Wal-Mart? I make my own lotion. I can spray some of it on a paper towel for ya. There you go, just smear that all over. Do it.

      May 17, 2012 at 6:56 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.