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 The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET
My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
By Mark Osler, Special to CNN I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith. What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others. A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ. During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning. After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality). His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise. My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will. Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him. The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage. Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily! I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms. The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new. I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream. It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect. The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler. soundoff (15,115 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 Next » |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: 
what
huh?:
PETA has taken up that argument. Same with dogs. Nice try. A for effort D for results. C minus over all..sorry mate
I think the Christian case in support of gay marriage carries equal weight to the Christian argument against gay marriage...about the weight of a unicorn.
there are unicorns in the bible. satyrs, giants, dragons + c.ockatrice too.
By all means enjoy the fruits of a christian society,oh right never happened.....If you rewrite history
The "religious right" agenda: 1) Control women's reproductive rights. 2) Keep ministers out of jail for illicit se x ual conduct. 3) Protect our material possessions from lawsuits and taxes.
The "gay agenda" 1) Marry and live in legally recognized monogamous relationships. 2) Form loving families in which we can raise children (often adopted from straights who did not want them) in a stable home as a couple. 3) Serve our country in the military.
Seems pretty obvious to me which of those agendas a loving God would smile upon and which He would take his chain to in the temple.
nail on the head.
Hammer on the thumb
Sorry Chris....I didn't mean to hammer your thumb. But if my words cause you pain......maybe there is a reason.
hatred and bigotry are often painful.
BamaDaniel,
curious. do you consider yourself a christian? if so, is there a particular denomination you consider yourself a part of?
Raised in a pentecostal church. Haven't been since momma stopped making me go.except funerals.
do you follow the bible literally? what is your view on that book?
Booty marriage is a symbol of tradition one of the oldest to man,going to be the hardest to change
marriage was around for thousands of years before christianity.
Misunderstood historical writings.they don't teach the truth about Thanksgiving today so it's easy to see the wrong picture
but you, of course, do understand them?
Some of them .that's why I said oldest some bible stories tens if not hundreds of thousands of years old.I can tell you about hurricanes that struck here years before I was born because of older families telling what happened.thank God or who ever you want for weather satellites I do.
i thank man for weather satellites, as well as all other technological advancements.
how do you decide which are to be taken literally and which are just stories?
Made into law because of the innate visceral disgust that one can bury or deny but that is real.Call it something else.Marriage is between a man and a woman.Call it butt buddies,likker girls whatever
hmmm.....nope.....I think marriage is pretty much the only thing that will work. That separate but equal argument really was debunked as being viable a few decades ago.
What if the entire population found you to be "innately and viscerally disgusting?". Could we make you abide by laws that other's don't have to abide by??
marriage is a legal device, not a religious one.
get married in a church with church approval but without a gov't issued marriage license = not legally married
get married in a courthouse without church approval but with a gov't issued marriage license = legally married
you can add ritual and ceremony to a marriage, but it's not necessary. marriage is a legally binding contract between two people.
Luckily, you dont get to decide that. So, instead, we'll just call you names, and send you back under your rock.
I question the legal basis for marriage. Why does the law care about marriage, other than providing a solid mechanism for family life? Is there a legal or practical purpose for the law to concern itself with a union like marriage if it is not about having children/family life?
On the order of 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon married couples in the U.S. Typically these are composed of about 400 state benefits and over 1,000 federal benefits. Among them are the rights to:
bullet joint parenting;
bullet joint adoption;
bullet joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
bullet status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
bullet joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
bullet dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
bullet immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
bullet inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
bullet joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
bullet inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
bullet benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
bullet spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
bullet veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
bullet joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
bullet wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bullet bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
bullet decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
bullet crime victims' recovery benefits;
bullet loss of consortium tort benefits;
bullet domestic violence protection orders;
bullet judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
bullet and more....
Mike....two problems with your premise. The first problem is the assumptions that gays do not want to establish a family in which both parents would have equal standing. Hence, even if marriage was to serve family life, you would have to argue for gay marriage in those cases in which the couple had a desire to raise a family. The second problem is that having children is not a prerequisite for straight marriages. Hence, why would it be a prerequisite for gay marriages. The family unit being formed may just be the couple (straight or gay).
bootyfunk, this is the problem with using the wrong word for things. Marriage is not a right. It is an insti-tution in which both the government and the individuals have an interest in the arrangement. You have to look at it from the point of view of the government which is representing greater society. These benefits that you describe translate into a response from government to address marriage and particularly the special concerns of family life. Since special benefits/conditions are in place to address traditional marriage in the context of family life, does it still make sense to argue that such conditions ought to be applied for others outside of this intended context? Why not just apply such benefits to anyone, or just abolish any legal recognition of marriage if benefits are being arbitrarily distributed?
This brings me to be's point. I don't see your argument as a problem because I agree with you. I don't know what God thinks, but to me if gay marriage is about family life and the possibility of raising children (in other words a desire on the part of gays to be accepted into married life as it exists) then I think it is a good thing for the same reasons that I think hetero families are good and necessary. The alternate vision that marriage benefits are a right, and that the lifestyle choice under marriage is irrelevant compromises the inst-itution of marriage as I argued above, and puts us in a position where marriage benefits are arbitrary and may as well be abolished.
Christians consider Sharia Law immoral but impose their own Sharia Law in America.
No matter what version, it's immoral to impose your religious superstition and deny others civil rights.
Are you trying to making me think that I'm going senile?
Try.You can try to rewrite history.
Yes, I suppose. This is another interesting conversation. Little odd though.
Jesus is the only Way the truth and the life
So? One can believe that and also believe that there is nothing wrong with ho mo se x uality.
there is no good evidence that jesus actually existed. likely, he is a mythological figure like hercules.
You mean Mohammed, I think, because Muslims tell me that all the time.. Look back at your cheat sheet to make sure.
I applaud your support of being gay, although I am not Jesus follower.
@booty I told you hercules was real they called him Samson in the bible
The Flying Spaghetti Monster says you are wrong.
BamaDaniel,
you love fitting your world view into religious dogma. where is your evidence that they were referring to hercules in the bible when they mentioned sampson. of course, since neither existed, it's a moot point...
That was a joke .but when I read fountains of the deep in Genesis I think of undersea volcanoes and smokers.that was the best way they could describe them when chiseling stone
you really think ancient people in the middle east were describing underwater volcanoes? again, seems more you are trying to fit modern information into religious dogma.
Serpent, if sodomy is all you can think of when you think of the gay community, then you're the pervert. Do you define everyone you know based on how you imagine them having sex? Do you obsess over imagining what things they might do in private that you don't? I hope not, but if you don't then you are simply prejudiced. If you do, you have other serious issues.
i'm guessing Serpent watches g.ay p.orn constantly. he justifies it by saying he's just doing research on the sinful. but he always needs a box of tissue and some lotion while "conducting research".
He's a big fan of the "participant observation" research model.
There are still people who believe that interracial marriage is sinful based on their interpretation of the Bible. There are still people who believe women should be subservient to men based on their interpretation of the Bible. Why should we be surprised that certain closed-minded individuals are going to use the Bible to support their prejudices against gays. If people believe that the Bible truly is the Word of God, they would never bast ard ize it to justify their prejudices.
if he conservatives had their way, segregation would never have ended in this country.
@be "There are still people who believe that interracial marriage is sinful based on their interpretation of the Bible."
@Chad "the bible records God instructing the Israelites not to intermarry with the people around them. That isnt a prohibition against interracial marriage, it is a prohibition against inter-religious marriage.
The bible also records Paul instructing believers not to yoked to non-believers, again, this is not an interracial thing either.
So, that's is a good example of how people take their own prejudices and twist scripture to come up with some kind of "support".
=========
@be "There are still people who believe women should be subservient to men based on their interpretation of the Bible.
In context, seems pretty self explanatory when you read the entire verse.. Cherry picking leads to nothing but trouble
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband – Ephesians 5
=========
@be "Why should we be surprised that certain closed-minded individuals are going to use the Bible to support their prejudices against gays. "
@Chad "It is simply impossible to construct an argument that along with thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers, ,homosexuality is not a sin.
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination Leviticus 18
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God 1 Corinthians
========
@be "If people believe that the Bible truly is the Word of God, they would never bast ard ize it to justify their prejudices."
@Chad "pretty clear when you look at all 3 issues and the scripture associated with them, which ones are solidly grounded in biblical theology and which ones are distortions.
@Chad
When are you going to apologize for lying about three people, yesterday?? Why do you think lies are ok for you to tell?? Do you think that they make Jesus happy?
@momoya "When are you going to apologize for lying about three people, yesterday?? "
=>perhaps you could explain exactly what the "lie" was?
I've already laid it out plainly for you about half a dozen times.. So you've just lied again.. How proud do you think Jesus is of your continual mockery of the "christian ethic?". Again, thank you so much for being here as the perfect model of what sh!tty behavior christians exude.. I really, really, really appreciate it.. 🙂
hmm,
perhaps you could point me to where you explained it elsewhere?
Look back through your posts on this thread, Chad.. And once again, I don't want you to stop.. By all means, continue being the perfect foil for my position.. I only wish you were posting as an example of fvcked up chrisitan morals every time I needed you around to make the point.
here's a short version of the thread.. precisely where do you see a lie?
=========================================
@Chad Question for you atheists: Define "morality"
@momoya "Selecting the decision that causes the least harm possible.."
@Alien Orifice "are you unable to navigate to dictionary.com or m-w.com?"
@PraiseTheLard "Google has plenty of textbook definitions"
@Chad “I find that atheists either a)attempt to redefine the word (momoya), or b) refuse to answer the question (Alien Orifice, PraiseTheLard ), Why is that?
@Momoya You !@#@! liar.. I did exactly what you asked.. I defined morality.. What the !@#@! are you on about because I got all night to slap around your stupid as!@#@! ideas.. Bring it, silly Christian
@Cq “Morality is the distinction between right and wrong, or good and bad behavior. [age old morality needs to be updated for modern values]” – CG paraphrase mine
@Chad Looks like CQ was the only to really dare to say what morality really is, kudo's for that. No, I dont believe that right and wrong can be redefined as people see fit. I believe it was established a long time ago and hasnt change one bit.”
@ Chad the LIAR
See page 39, but please don't correct your behavior.. I want you to be as des picable of a liar in the future as you are now.
that was pretty much it right? the rest was just name calling... the usual..
absolutely LIAR.. whatever lies you want to tell.. sure.. why not.. liar.
ah, well, if you get a handle on your specific objection let me know..
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/20/opinion/garcia-columbus-jewish/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
YOUR STANDARDS ARE FROM GOD
Hello Dietrich,
You sound like we could have a lot in common... you're obviously smart, but your post saddens me because it's equally obvious that you have never seriously studied the Bible because if you had, you would be able to cite the scriptures for each of your "Standards" or "Values" or "Laws".... I wish I could have a conversation with you and walk you through them. And I pray that God reveal Himself and His true nature to you because God is Love.
You wrote: [Standards: Treating everyone equally (I do mean everyone). Not stealing, murdering. Having to obey the laws of the Country. Accepting other's points of view that might contradict your own.]
All of which is spelled out EXPLICITLY in BOTH the Old and New Testaments. Just look up any keyword in your "standards"..... you see, a fellow believer here answered you rightly: that God is the standard. He is the law, then and now. We have a police state now because we've added too many extras to His law in disobedience to His Command not to add or take away ANYTHING from His law. The longest Psalm: 119; testifies of the importance of His Law and is summarized in Psalm 19.
But if you only have time for one Scripture, pls read Jesus in Matt. 5:17-20 where he explains in detail how He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.
Jesus in His Love & simplicity, recognized that "10" Commandments were too heavy for us, so He SUMMARIZED THEM into 2.
His 1st: To love the Lord Your God with all your heart sums up the 1st 4 Commandments and is itself a direct quote from the Old Testament; and the 2nd to love your neighbor as yourself is your "golden rule" and refers to the last 6 Commandments since no one wants to be murdered, lied to, lied about, etc.
Again, you're smart.... but you're not smarter than Solomon, the natural author*** of the Proverbs who wrote:
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And do not lean on your own understanding"
So I would pray for God to anoint your eyes to see and your ears to hear His word directly from you.... The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit will guide and teach all who seek God's word for himself, so you're never encouraged to take anyone else's word for it. See Acts 17:11 about testing every teacher against the scriptures.
You've gone a long way in your life "leaning on your own understanding"..... You can't get where you want to go like that. Solomon ends that verse like this:
"In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths."
[***believers recognize God as the spiritual author of every word that made the final edit into the Bible, accepting that both the natural writers and the editors were inspired by the Spirit of God]
I'm smart I listen to God not the bible,changes to much.PS. Does your pastor get paid to tell you the goodness?
One thing I forgot to add directly to you:
It isnt smarts but experience that has been my teacher. (PS Im also a reformed Christian. So yes I do know my Bible, even if I can not quote scripture and verse from it.)
The "mountain peaks" of many societal impartations will never oblige the realisms of God! Neither will the abundant rocks, being the people spread upon the mountains' grounds accept the principalities of Godliness! Sodomy will raise its' ugly heads as LGBT's to crown themselves as being the enlightened and mankind will flock to their heads shining as the lights of a new age! Such is now happening upon many lands! Stand fast all you who still believe in God's Truths! Be not swayed by sodomy's ugly perceptions of vanity and ungodliness ideals!
FJR,
I was thinking about what you said about laws and standards.
I believe in equality. On one hand you are for equality and the same and on the other you say because "God" said it that two people can NOT get married.
THAT IS WRONG. I do NOT care if "God" himself comes down and threatens me with eternal hell and damnation. THAT is still wrong and I would tell it to his face and walk happy into hell knowing I stood up for what was right.
As much as you believe it is an abomination, I even more strongly believe that it is a right that is afforded by ALL. Plus the whole argument one man/one woman doesnt fly because history has shown us, that it isnt the case for marriage. (Marriage's definition has changed throughout the centuries).
Only one flaw in that... its all make believe. Now if a leprechaun told you those things, that I might believe... at least ive seen them making cereal.
DiedrichKyrian
Your vanities bewails you! How many others will want to rightly (according to your vanity) follow you willingly to hell's kitchens?
Hihi Bama,
Actually I haven't been to church in over a year but I have read/studied the bible EVERY day.
Trust me when I tell you the Bible has not changed for thousands of years: It is the living Word of God and you can/will definitely get to know God and draw nearer to Him just by reading it for yourself. Many people died for us to have the right to read the Bible for ourselves, so pls don't miss out on the blessings and revelation knowledge that will flow to you just from obeying His commands about reading, studying and memorizing His Word.
And I will take your response as an inspired word from God for me to find a church and a pastor who preaches and teaches from the Bible and not from his own flesh or from his own needs and/or desires; so thank you for that inspiration. Even though I have been fellowshipping with other believers in studying the Bible for a year, I haven't been to a church or supporting a pastor for a few years really.... And I think my own study has made me strong enough, knowing who the Word says I am in God without a pastor's interpretation, that I'm ready to support and follow one now.
See.... I'm not much different from you; so thanks again for the inspiration to find a pastor of a bible-teaching church.... I will do exactly that.
You christians can always come up with a way to abandon your own argument (once it's been destroyed) and instead ad hominem or point to insults or the color of the person's hair, or the way they dress, or who they s c r e w.. Any excuse to disregard the argument will do,
Yep.. It pretty much occurs on cue..
okay person now i have a few minute but im sure your for gay marriage and your most likely gay what do you want to talk about?
Your poor sentence structure and grammar.
Thank you Momoya.
Of course, you're welcome!
Christianity is a middle-eastern religion that bashes followers who most resemble a 33 yr old man, who did not have a wife, no children, no girlfriend and happily loved 12 men he chose.
@booty what up boyee..put that kush in the air
smoke em if you got em! 🙂
Beautiful....what a refreshing opinion!
yes it is.....and consistent with empirical data.......even more refreshing!
Christians should care about as much what the Bible says regarding homosexuality as they do about how it commands parents to stone their disobedient children to death.
Selective reading
what about the millions of babies you have kiledl in the womb? 51 million and counting since R vs. W
yes you are absolutely correct lets start with your kids then take it from there sounds good to me
it all pales in comparison to how many God drowned in his great flood. all living things on earth but one family.
God = great mass murder in mythological history
God will have no part of sodomizers who He thinks are abominable creatures of lessor actions!
that's funny, God didn't say that when i sodomized him a couple days ago. he said, "more a.anl please!"
"creatures of lessor actions"
He thinks that they are landlords?
@ Bootyfunk
"Junk in the trunk" sodomizing actions tends to devalue the real love in one's Life!
exactly opposite. a diverse s.ex life is good for you and your partner.
Male and Female he made them in the beginning and told them to be FRUITFUL and MULTIPLY!
True!
God told them to procreate. He created them Male and Female as a pair to complement each other. How awesome is that!
And the sons of God(the fallen)came down took human wives made hybrids(see men of old ,men of renown) and created abominations with animals and people
yes, and then adam and eve had children and then had s.ex with them! incest was also part of his plan! AMEN!
That's the way God planned it. You know what else is part of God's plan? Priests having se.x with little boys. At the moment we don't know why. Maybe someday God will explain it to us. For now we should not question his destructive and immoral plan. I'm sure he has a good reason and he will tell us when he's ready. Kum ba yah.
It'll be chiseled in stone for future generations to decode
how on earth can one woman look at another woman, a man look at another man and feel eros?!?!?!?!
IMPOSSIBLE! You are deceiving yourselves. Fakers!
@huh?
So do you support equal marriage rights for gays, or does your stupid assumption about gay people force you to be a bigot?
Since I don't do it I'm going to stop worrying about it mind my own business,suggest you do the same.let em live.
Don't dance around the issue. If you are a man do feel erotic looking at another man? how 'bout your cat? There is NOT a fine line between being gross and a bigot.
bama d – all that is fine as long as you don't bring the Bible to justify any form of sinfulness.
@huh?
It doesn't have anything to do with any "yuck" factor you might have, it's about fairness under the law.. You do realize that a cat is not a consenting adult, I hope?
So regardless of what you personally find gross, are you a bigot who wants gays to have less rights than you enjoy?
I hereby declare that humans cannot and must not have pets at homes.Felines cannot give consent and they belong in the wild.It is cruel to bring them home and domesticate them when they never gave you their consent.WRONG! WRONG!WRONG!
Momoy-We are consenting adults can we get married?
I recognize that god is a very busy guy. Not only does he have to manage every sub-atomic particle in the universe, but there is world hunger, wars, disease and natural disasters to deal with. Then there is the devil and his gang of demons who are always trying to stay one step ahead of god.
But god's most important concern, without a doubt, is what men do with their tally whackers.
And whether or not you wear a thin membrane of rubber when you do it.. Because that's just terrible.
You're also not supposed to play with it...Just saying.
Momoya just give your life to Jesus. He died for your sins, He loves you, and He's waiting for you.
reasonable argument or evidence, please.
momoya, but why didn't you provide me with a reasonable answer concerning the obviousness of atheism?
I thought I already had.. The folks who claim god exists have no verifiable evidence and their arguments are unreasonable.. Thus, sane, reasonable, unindoctrinated people reject their claims.
Again, evidence or reasonable argument, please.
Sorry momoya, that isn't an answer to what I asked you. The moment has passed. Maybe we'll revisit that discussion another time.
Oh wow.. Another christian who lies.. what a shocker..
I answered your question, dipsh!t, and you know it.. Keep on lying for Jesus.. Try to do it when I'm around, though, so I can point out exactly how often christians lie for their silly little delusion.
Ok momoya since you are calling me a liar I will explain.
I asked you: do you ever contemplate that you are lucky to have been born, assuming that you are happy to exist? Realizing that you exist do you consider that this was inevitable due to existence intrinsic to your being, do you think your existence is attributable to the laws of physics, randomness, chaos, nothingness.
You say that you don't think any of these things because there is no verifiable proof. There are a couple of problems with that answer. If you say that you don't take a position on this, then how is it you consider yourself an atheist? Doesn't being an atheist mean that you don't believe in God? If you don't believe in God then you must have an alternative opinion about why you exist.
Personally, I don't see an alternate explanation for existence. Either there is a root source for all existence which can not be limited by time, space or anything in existence (you arrive at this in the limit of thought experiment about causation, time, etc) or the argument is that existence is of no substance (in otherwords is consistent with nothingness). If you can't form an opinion with regard to this question than you are not an atheist, and really have no place in this discussion about belief in God.
@Mike Blackadder
First off, Momoya does NOT have to provide you with a reasonable answer concerning the obviousness of atheism?
For ONE, its NOT even a well-structured question.
Well-structured questions would be as follows:
Momoya, it seems to me you are an atheist. Are you an Atheist? And if you are, as I assume you are to be, tell me why you are an Atheist and how do you view God, the Bible and Organized Religions?
Get it? See the difference? Good.
If momoya and others are going to talk down their noses at people, maybe she should provide an answer. This will at least give her some credibility. I notice that when you restructure my question that it is no longer asking the same thing.
Momoya's 'answer' tells me that she isn't actually an atheist. I'm not sure if she even thinks atheism is possible. Never got that far in the conversation.