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After decade in storage, Washington letter on religious freedom will go public
George Washington's letter will go on display after being out of public view for almost a decade.
May 23rd, 2012
02:18 PM ET

After decade in storage, Washington letter on religious freedom will go public

By Alex Zuckerman, CNN

Washington (CNN) – After sitting in storage for nearly a decade, George Washington’s signature statement on religious liberty will go on display this summer in the city where freedom of religion was enshrined in the Constitution: Philadelphia.

America’s first president wrote the letter to a Jewish congregation in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1790, assuring American Jews that their freedom of religion would be protected. The document will go on display this summer for the first time since 2002 in an exhibition at Philadelphia’s National Museum of American Jewish History.

For nine years, the letter has been kept out of public view, in storage at a sterile Maryland office park a few hundred feet from FedEx Field, where the Washington Redskins play. CNN took an inside look at the document in September.

But the Morris Morgenstern Foundation, which owns the letter, has agreed to put the historic document on public display, officials at the National Museum of American Jewish History said.

“Our institution as well as others have been trying to have access to (this) for a long time,” said museum director and CEO Ivy Barsky. “We feel fortunate that the Morgenstern Foundation thought us worthy.”

The loan agreement between the museum and the foundation is unusual. The museum will have the letter for three years but will be allowed to show it for just three months per year. The letter will be kept in a dark storage area for preservation for the other nine months.

An excerpt of the letter showing George Washington's signature.

The document will be accompanied by an exhibit called “To Bigotry No Sanction: George Washington and Religious Freedom,” which will run June 29 to September 30. Barsky said the exhibit came together only after the museum was certain it could showcase Washington’s letter.

Before going into storage in 2002, the letter was on display at the Klutznick Museum at B’nai B’rith International Headquarters in Washington. It was on display there for 45 years before the organization downsized, closing its museum. The letter went into storage.

After that,  many people did not realize where the letter had gone, according to Jane Eisner, editor of  Forward, a Jewish newspaper. Eisner dedicated a series of editorials over the last year to lobbying for public display of the letter. She also sent a reporter, Paul Berger, to research the history of the letter.

“This is one of those rare moments as a journalist where you can see the fruits of your labor,” Eisner said. “All we had was all Washington had, which was words. We just have our words and arguments that we try to put out in the public sphere as best we could.”

Morris Morgenstern, center, showed a number of notable people his prized letter, including then-Sen. John F. Kennedy.

The letter is considered to be Washington’s key public statement on religious freedom. Eisner and Barsky say that the document signaled a welcoming of all people to America in pursuit of freedom.

“May the father of all mercies scatter light, and not darkness, upon our paths,” the letter reads, “and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in His own due time and way everlastingly happy.”

The letter addressed the congregation’s fears that Jews could face discrimination in the new nation. “The letter starts off to the Hebrew congregation of Newport, Rhode Island,” said Mordechai Eskovitz, rabbi of the Touro Synagogue in Newport. “It was meant for the congregation. It is addressed to the congregation.”

The Touro Synagogue, in Newport, Rhode Island, where Washington sent his letter.

The Library of Congress had asked to display the letter during a 2004 exhibit on the 350th anniversary of Jewish life in America. When the loan was not completed, many historians speculated that no one would be able to meet the standards of the Morgenstern Foundation for exhibiting the letter.

“Usually people would die just to be invited to display their property,” said Jonathan Sarna, professor at Brandeis University and a pre-eminent scholar on Jewish-American history. “If the Library of Congress wanted something of mine, they would have it the next day with insured mail.”

Berger, the Forward reporter, says the letter’s placement at another Jewish museum could mean the Morgenstern family would like to see the letter stay in a Jewish facility. “Nobody knows why the family chose the museum in Philadelphia over the Library of Congress,” he said.

The Morgenstern Foundation did not respond to requests for comment.

It is unclear where the document will go after its three-year loan at the Museum of American Jewish History.

- CNN’s Dan Merica contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: History • Judaism

soundoff (869 Responses)
  1. PVS1

    RUN TEA BAGGERS!!!! RUN!!!

    May 24, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • mandarax

      Oh, Glen Beck and Bill O'Reilly will just write a book (with a little help from a literate co-author) about how secret documents show that what Washington really meant was praise Jesus and future elites shouldn't have to pay taxes.

      May 24, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
  2. Peikovianyi

    The Founding Fathers were men of the Enlightenment. They left us a system of Classical Liberalism. So many Americans are hopeless and lost in the philosophies of later times, of mysticism and violence, that they can't understand the reality in which they function and the wisdom they inheirited.

    May 24, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • Everett Wallace

      Were they not freemasons also? Who listens to those folks anyway.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm |
    • Ky

      @Wallace: Oh, OK, you're just one of those people that has a reason to dislike just about everyone, except yourself, of course.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • brother walt gee

      The Masons of the 18th Century and today are indeed two different breeds. Albert Pike introduced things that few if any of Our Founding Fathers would have agreed with. President Washington's Masonic apron was reported to have been added to his portrait after his death.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
  3. Shakespeare

    Only a secular government can provide truly unbiased religious freedom.

    May 24, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
    • Joseph Stalin

      Purely secular governments when they have been tried have always persecuted religion.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • tkindsm

      a truly secular government wouldn't have enough understanding of religion to ensure religious freedom for all

      May 24, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • DB

      Good point. Not sure about this fellow who seems to think that secular govts often lead to persecution. Seems to be based on his/her/its whim and little facts- so common among the troll class.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • Pol Pot

      Secular governments love religion and respect the freedom of religion...as long as they tow the party line. If they object to gay marriage or contraception on deeply held beliefs, they should be forced to compromise or keep silent.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • comm0nsense

      Joseph, who can blame them .. for religion only breeds ignorance.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • Chairman Mao

      Religion is seen as dangerous in secular societies. Religion is told it must not have a voice in politics or speak on any social issue...unless of course it agrees with the secular government.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • brother walt gee

      Dear Bill,
      Are you aware that The Bard was a very strong Christian, Bible reader, and coded into several works direct quotes from the Bible?

      June 3, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
  4. Fed Up

    All of my other freedoms are gone or badly eroded, why isn't religion on the chopping block too? Washington would be sick to his stomach if he could see what's in the White House today.

    May 24, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • hecep

      Only if Geaorge Washington was a imbecilic racist.

      May 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • birch please

      White house no, congress YES

      May 24, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • mandarax

      While you're complaining about how "all" your freedoms are gone, think about your ability to say that, and your freedom to openly criticize the President..in writing...in a public forum. If you had truly lost your freedoms you could be imprisoned for that. What is it exactly that you are wanting to do but is impeded by our government?

      May 24, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • Stimpy

      Whats freedoms of your are gone?

      May 24, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • Stimpy

      What freedoms of yours are gone?

      May 24, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Stonesrule

      Yeah – someone needs to show this letter to Obama. Then he can go and add appropriate "editing" to Washington's biography by adding a mention of himself. Anyone else folowing Obama's push on treaties deferring to the United Nations and ceding US military power, in certain instances, to them? Of course not., and the lamestream media won't cover it....if you knew you wouldn't be defending this loser and traitor.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • daniel

      Apparently his freedom to think rationally...

      May 24, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • David

      I love hear conservative nutjobs talk about how Obama is turning America into some kind of Stalinist gulag, because anybody with even half a brain knows that's the babbling of lunatics. Keep on ranting and raving, Tea partiers, you are chasing voters into the big Democratic tent in droves. And then, after you get Obama elected to a second term, do everybody a favor and follow through on your "threats" to leave the country.

      We can't wait for you to be gone.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • Nietzsche

      George Washington wasn't the first President. John Hanson was.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • BioHzrd

      Hanson was the first president under the Articles of Confederation. However, George Washington was the first president of the United States of America. Basically 2 different governments.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • MIJohn

      I think he means his freedom to cram his "holy and righteous" views down the throat of anyone. His freedom to deny anyone who doesn't look, act, and think like him the same rights in return. I'm guessing here but, unless this is a troll by a 10 year whose angry at being ignored, FedUp wants things to go back to the glory days of the last 1800s and early 1900s when you could lynch, beat, spit on, etc and get away with it because the target of your rage was not a WASP.

      What I find ironic is that Washington would be appalled at what those who say they're defending his "vision". Washington and the other founders took a massive risk when they created a nation that did not have an official cult but allowed all to worship who they wished as they wished with the only expectation they respect differences. To Washington, the idea of a society were every one could have a say in government, openly discuss the issues of the day, and at the end do so without fear of retribution by government or the population was a nearly unattainable dream. After getting closer than the Founding Fathers could imagine in terms of the tools to realize that dream, they would be disgusted that we've fallen farther away than they had because we let those who claim to be "defending liberty" use violence and intimidation to try to silence opposition.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • Justin

      To those of you who mock (Fed Up). How about the freedom to protest without going to jail. How about the freedom to not have anybody listen in on your phone calls, emails, and the cameras on every section of a red light. How about the freedom to not go to jail indefinitely without a court hearing (NDAA). How about the freedom to fight as a patriot and to say NO to laws that hurt the citizens more than help them without being labeled a terrorist or being ignorant. Fed Up is also right on religion it should have no part in polotics nor should I or anyone else no of who or what you believe in. If you do not see your freedoms being taken away from you today, then you ladies and gentlemen deserve no freedom.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
  5. Dakota2000

    This is all part of a fairy tale version of the US. We are not that nation any more. We are divided. We torture people. We hate people in the name of Jesus. We put 1% of our population in jail, have 1% fight all our wars and give all the benefits of freedom to another 1%.

    We are a nation of unequals.

    So, it gives me little solace that one of our founding fathers had wisdom which exceeds the grasp of any of our leaders today.

    This letter tells me it is time to mourn for "that shinning beacon on the hill" whose light has now been extinguished.

    May 24, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • birch please

      The "great experiment" has failed. Not because of the system but because of the people.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Guest

      We have met the enemy and he is us.

      May 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • TownC

      I guess Mr. Obama has totally failed in his promise to unite us.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • PVS1

      TOWN C, i guess tea baggers cant read and comprehend.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
  6. Stan

    You Pinks need to find some slack.

    May 24, 2012 at 11:42 am |
  7. birch please

    My god demands that all h0m0s3xuals be married. You have no choice but to tolerate this or you are not an american.

    May 24, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • momoya

      My god demands that all hetero marriages be annulled and those people marry someone of the same s3x because only same-s3x marriages are holy in his eyes.

      May 24, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • rob

      What the hell does that mean?

      May 24, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
  8. Rational Libertarian

    What do you call a Jewish woman's boobs?

    May 24, 2012 at 7:57 am |
    • Wrath of Zeus

      Jewbies?

      May 24, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Madtown

      The Twin Shiksas?

      May 24, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Danaman

      smarter than you?

      May 24, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • ME II

      "Rational Libertarian" No... that's a racist as.s not breasts.... hmmm

      May 24, 2012 at 5:12 pm |
    • Peter

      I don't know. I give up.

      Why don't you give us the punchline and then go get drunk.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
  9. hamsta

    this just goes to show everyone obama has started a war on religion and the first ammendment on two fronts.

    May 24, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • mandarax

      Huh? Because George Washington's letter is going on display?

      May 24, 2012 at 1:42 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      mandarax: The republitards will grasp at any straw possible to make Obama look bad. Too bad dolts like Hamsta are incapable of understanding the basic facts about the debt crisis: Obama has only raised the debt by half of what it was in his time, Bush doubled it, Reagan tripled it...that is where the focus should be but instead they put it on the one thing they are afraid of most...losing their religion.

      May 24, 2012 at 6:36 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      I guess you don't understand the whole point of this. It was so that others (CHRISTIANS) wouldn't infringe on the rights of Jewish people to worship as they please. Here we are over 200 years later and Christians are trying to force their beliefs into law, despite the fact that it violates the freedoms of others. If there is a "war on religion" (which you don't mean war on religion, which to you means any time Christians don't get their way) then Christians brought it on themselves. Stay out of government, stay out of schools and we will leave you alone.

      May 24, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • clubschadenfreude

      wow, hilarious to see what I'm assuming to be a Christian tell lies and bear false witness agaisnt another. I mean, if such good christians don't seem to care about what they say or the status of their supposed souls, why should anyone think that their religion is in anyway correct?

      May 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Merry Prankster

      If anything the first amendment protects your religion from the government, why on earth would you want the government messing with your religion? Separate the two and be happy that you can worship as you feel fit.

      May 24, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
  10. mandarax

    A paragraph from Washington's letter:

    "It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."

    ...which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance...beautiful!

    May 23, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • Leo

      Mandarax, Funny how the belief site brings in so many bigots and hypocrites!!

      Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot", a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Quipper

      Yes, Leo, you are clearly a bigot.

      May 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bravo. Succinct and yet completely true.

      May 23, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • Leo

      Too funny!! Look at my posts, I show clearly that Christianity is not to judge those outside the Church. God gave us all free will do do what is right or wrong. I have many "G-A-Y" and Liberal freinds that I love and they know what I believe.

      I come here now and then and defend the lies and deceptions of those that wrongly attack God, the Bible, and Christians in ignorance to what they are doing.

      Spending so much time here is pretty stinking sick if you ask me. I feel your pain....

      May 24, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Leo, notice that the definition says "opinions and prejudices" – by this definition, all believers are bigots because they have no facts to back up their opinions and prejudices.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
    • Berman

      So said the slave owner....

      May 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • FrayedJeff

      Leo,

      Is your god so weak it needs you to defend it? I would think an all powerful god could take care of itself.

      May 24, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • TRUTHTELLER

      G. Washington owned slaves like many others of his time. We are all human beings, always have been. His words about freedom are hypocritical.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:39 am |
  11. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus, and other horrible diseases that cause horrid suffering and death to millions of people worldwide.

    And then he wants to torture you in hell forever if you suspect that he doesn't exist, even given that there is no specific evidence for his existence and that he apparently hasn't shown his face for at least 2000 years if ever.

    Wow, god must be quite the cruel, evil jerk. To be polite. Well, actually, asshole is probably a better description of him.

    May 23, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • momoya

      And that's painting god in the best light possible.. Here's my rule: Any being who DEMANDS worship or he'll torture you FOREVER is the only being who decidedly does NOT deserve worship and DOES deserve eternal torture.. What was good for the goose, dipsh!t bible god?. Now worship ME, azzhole fvcker!

      May 23, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Bo

      @ momoya:The only thing that you have wrong Momoya, is the false teaching that those who will suffer death in the “lake of fire” will suffer forever without a death. That is just not biblical. I know there are some that teach this as biblical, but it just isn't so. But it isn't just atheist that will die, many claim to be Christians will be there. One wise person said: "Not one in twenty are ready for traslation." Think about it, that is 95% of those who caim to be Christian will not make it. Of course, 100% of the atheists will not make it. Paul, speaking of the heathen and pagans said: they are a law unto themselves, doing that which is right even though they do not know the true God, and it will be counted to them as righteousness.

      May 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Bo

      Opps, "...many of those who calim to be Christians will 'not' be there..."

      May 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent is on the warpath again. I came up with an appropriate handle just for you "YELLOW".

      May 23, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Color me unimpressed.

      May 23, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • jeff

      Amazing how you guys have it all wrong.. God didn't send any of those things. Your own sin did that.. God is offering you a way out.. forgiveness of your sins to bring you back in relationship with him through his son Jesus Christ. He's not the one sending you to hell, you are. As for those claiming to be Christian, if you have not done what Romans 10:9 says to do, then you do not know God. You have to be saved, born again through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. No works of any kind will ever get you there.. It's not performance based.. it is by Grace that you are saved, not of works.. However, faith without works is dead.. which means, if your overall actions aren't Christian, then your faith is lacking. You shall know them by their fruits.

      May 23, 2012 at 11:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      ALL HAIL JEFF! ALL HAIL JEFF! Only accurate interpreter of ALL Biblical passages!!!

      May 23, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • momoya

      @Bo

      How would we know?. Some verses say the dead know nothing.. Some verses talk about everlasting torment (quite a few more).. You can't explain that.

      May 24, 2012 at 12:05 am |
    • fred

      momoya
      Truth is truth as revealed by God. You just as I have a lens that we see the Bible through which filters what can be seen of the truth. Jesus said all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. What we do with the truth is just one of those short falls of man.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:40 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Fred
      Do Joe Smith's magic Seer Stones count as God's Lenses?
      Suspending disbelief to be able to accept that which is obviously fictional as fact is not virtuous.

      May 24, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • fred

      Doc
      As Pilate said to Jesus “what is truth”. Then he inscribed “King of the Jews” on the head plate of the cross. Certainly Pilate noticed the difference between Jesus and the Priests that called for blood. At the cross the simplicity of how one criminal gets to heaven and the unknown disposition of the mocking criminal next to Christ (see Luke 23:35-43)leaves little doubt that the nature of some people is inclined towards God and others are not. The truth is simple and obvious in that some souls simply belong in the promised land and no one can change that destiny because that is their essence and purpose onto heaven. On the other end of the spectrum there are the souls that mock, kick and scratch at God or any that would look to the hope offered. They do not belong with the others and actually prefer any existence or non existence to the offer of hope. That is the truth.
      Now, as to Joe and the stones in the old and the New Testament there were seers. Christians are warned to be on the lookout for False Prophets and Teachers that lead you astray. Joe has some of the markers because he adds to the Word of God and explains the deep hidden meanings of God. The key marker is does he preach the Gospel of Jesus accurately. Joe added enough stuff as did Muhammad to where it is very distant from the Gospel of Jesus. God is much bigger than we give credit and if we can see the difference between the two criminals on the cross no doubt God has an easy job sorting goats and sheep. The simple truth is that LDS and Islam are not a wall that can keep your from completing its purpose.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
  12. Bob

    Religious sheeple, it's time to extinguish your sick Christian delusions about your evil sky fairy AKA Christian god. Let's have a look at what the bible really says and claims, rather than blindly take it as guidance like so many of you do.

    First, look into the eyes of a suffering victim of any of the multiple disfiguring, debilitating, painful diseases that your "loving" god has purportedly created. Then you might understand that Christian god as described in the bible is not loving, doesn't give a hoot about human suffering, and in fact does not exist.

    Second, how come your 'omnipotent' creature couldn't do all its supposed "saving" without the loony son sacrifice bit? And for that matter, how was it a sacrifice at all, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time it wants with less than a snap of its fingers? Pretty feeble god it is that you've made for yourself there.

    Next, read and think through some of the horrors that the bible very explicitly says Christian god wants you to do.

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    Please, stop referencing that Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, as a guide to, well, anything.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    May 23, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Leo

      Bob, some day, maybe sooner or later when the Lord returns to save Israel and his elect, you will finally bow your knee. I hope it is not too late!!

      May 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sez the zealot, wringing his hands and slobbering in anticipation of seeing his enemies tortured on a spit.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • Leo

      Yes you serve the god of this world, so beware!!

      II Thesalonians 2

      7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "You're gonna be in deep kimchee when dad gets home!"

      May 23, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Leo

      LOL you just admitted the injustice of your god. For those who are tricked he's gonna put delusions in their head to convince them it's true instead of intervening and showing them different. That is just HILARIOUS.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • mandarax

      Leo, you quote scripture as if you are casting magical spells. Think for yourself, make your own arguments. That words were written in an old book doesn't guarantee their truth. As a matter of fact, old information tends to be outdated. That's why we update encyclopedias.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Leo

      Not at all, I am providing you unfulfilled scripture so that when it happens you won't be surprised!!

      Funny how the topic discusses religious freedom from Bigotry!! You all are bigots!!

      May 23, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by Leo is a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      May 23, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • mandarax

      I'm a bigot because I question the validity of you threatening me with an eternity hell?

      May 23, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Leo

      You are here at the belief site to attack Christianity, that is what you all seem to live for. Pretty sad really and pathetic.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Maybe Leo is one of the people who thinks that religious freedom means the freedom to do whatever he wants if its for god, but it only applies to him and those who think like him?

      May 23, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • mandarax

      I'm here on the belief blog to express my views and argue in favor of what I see as correct and good. I don't have anything against Christianity in particular, but it does indeed happen quite often that unquestioned religious beliefs and willfully suppressed critical thinking skills stand in contradiction to what I see as correct and good.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • jeff

      Classic spiritual ignorance.. No understanding of the differentiation of the Old Testament vs the New Testament. I just get so annoyed when someone starts quoting from Leviticus or Deuteronomy without any understanding of what they were about. FYI, the OT was the Law.. divided in to the Theocratic, Priestly and Moral duties.. The Moral duties still apply in the NT however, those you quote from were for the Priestly class.. Leviticus says if you pick up anything dead, you're unclean too.. That means picking up a dead rat in your basement would make you unclean. We don't live like that anymore, because we don't have too.. thanks to the sacrifices of Jesus Christ.. For those that have accepted Jesus, we don't live under that law.. The OT primarily serves to show us the law and to appreciate what Jesus did for us.. You cannot truly understand the sacrifice of Jesus without having some understanding and true appreciation of the spirituality of the law.

      Bob, you are speaking completely out of ignorance and have no clue what you're talking about. I also doubt that you have any desire to truly understand, even in the name of philosophic or theological pursuits. So, my statements were really meant for someone else who reads your garbage and might be mislead.

      May 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Why would a loving god require "sacrifice" of a son. More bull. Jeebus NEVER said he was a "savior". The ti'tle was applied when Paul invented the "salvation" paradigm.

      May 23, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky, To lay down your life for others? Bad?

      Matthew 16

      13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” 20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

      May 24, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      So sad for you Bob. You persist in wanting to be right and deliberately misconstrue. Truly a sad experience.

      May 24, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • LinSea

      Bob, if someone was willing to sit down with you and discuss your claims and questions, would you even be willing to listen?

      May 24, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
  13. HeavenSent

    just sayin, you walked through the fire and you are still standing.

    God Bless.

    May 23, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And you aren't.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus, and other horrible diseases that cause horrid suffering and death to millions of people worldwide.

      And then he wants to torture you in hell forever if you suspect that he doesn't exist, even given that there is no specific evidence for his existence and that he apparently hasn't shown his face for at least 2000 years if ever.

      Wow, god must be quite the cruel, evil jerk. To be polite. Asshole is probably a better description.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • momoya

      Indeed, HS.. See my comment to your same sentiment above.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, use the handle "YELLOW", it suits you.

      May 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      momoya, you're blogging to one of your heathen buddies.

      May 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      OHHHH Everyone HeavenSent learned a new word!
      Heathen. Aww that's just so cute.

      May 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
    • AGuest9

      HeavenSent and just sayin are one in the same. I love how s/he talks to him/herself.

      May 24, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      AGuest9, wrong again. Blogging with one's self by using multiple handles is the non-believers M.O. who love lying as their way of life.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:34 pm |
  14. Snow

    Consider some really alarming quotes..
    – “Our leader was not elected…he was appointed by Allah.”
    – “Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of Allah…must be denied citizenship."
    – “I, your Provincial Governor, do hereby proclaim… a day of prayer and fasting for our country.”
    – “Allah called me to this government position…my family fasted for three days to make sure it was true.”
    – “"I would not put a Christian among my advisors, or in my government."
    – “(our founding doc.uments) are quite clear that we would create law based on Allah of the Qur’an and Sharia Law, it’s pretty simple.”
    – “I hope I will live to see the day when…we won't have any public schools. The Mosques will have taken over them over again and Imams will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
    “There will never be world peace until Allah's house and Allah's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world."

    Scary right? It would never happen in our country, and we would never let it happen in our country, right? Now consider the original quotes made by some great all american people..

    – “George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.” –Lt. General William Boykin, US Army
    – “Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship." –Gary North, Inst.itute for Christian Economics
    – “I, Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, do hereby proclaim August 6, 2011, to be A Day of Prayer and Fasting for Our Nation.” –Rick Perry, Texas Governor and Republican Presidential Candidate
    – “God called me to run for this office, and my husband fasted for 3 days to make sure it was true.” –Michelle Bachman, US Senator and Republican Presidential Candidate
    – “"I would not put a Muslim in my cabinet, or in my administration." –Herman Cain, Republican Presidential Candidate
    – “(Our founding doc.uments) are quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 commandments, it’s pretty simple.” –Sarah Palin
    – I hope I will live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken over them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" – Jerry Falwell
    – There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." –Pat Robertson

    This is why we need separation of church and state..

    May 23, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Or even the occasional and much paraphrased "religions need to be eliminated" that you see on these comment boards. Thank goodness for the separation of state and church to keep those maniacs from power.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
  15. mikstov33

    "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism,who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness,these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens... Let it simply be asked,where is the security for property,for reputation,for life,if the sense of religious obligation desert the the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
    From George Washingtons Farewell Address

    May 23, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      disproven. Anthropogolgy 101. Apes have "morality".

      May 23, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Even orangutans have expressed compassion that would fall into the realm of morality.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Thank you. You just proved the above letter is drivel.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      The origins of morality do not lie in religions. They may be "expressed" in religion.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Well..no one should ever put too much into the quotes on religion from the Founding Fathers like Washington, Jefferson..etc...right?

      May 23, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • momoya

      @If Naba

      You'd have a lot more fun arguing for the opposite side, and you'd have reason and logic on your side for a change.. Give it a shot.. You'd be surprised how amazingly simple it is to trash any supposed "argument" for any gods.. Critical reasoning is a blast once you figure out how to apply to ALL parts of your philosophy, instead of holding some ideals past its reach.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      I have fun arguing any and all sides as I see fit. It's just a game afterall 😉

      May 23, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      define "too much".

      May 23, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • momoya

      @If Naba

      You do realize the difference between medium used and likeness portrayed, don't you??

      By your logic, the christians god IS the medium used to portray the symbol.. The christian god is "silver plated cross jewelry.".

      You seem pretty fvcking retarded from where I sit.

      May 24, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • momoya

      Was the god of the Myan civilization clay?

      May 24, 2012 at 12:30 am |
    • Stan

      "I have fun arguing any and all sides as I see fit. It's just a game afterall".

      Exactly... both sides are suckers. I love watching these humorless morons arguing endlessly.

      May 24, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @momoya- "You do realize the difference between medium used and likeness portrayed, don't you??"

      ~Yep....do you realize that you have a very limited amount of knowledge on the Nabateans? Spend an afternoon at the ruins of Petra, then we might have a more intelligent conversation. If you catch up that is.

      "You seem pretty fvcking retarded from where I sit."

      ~I am sure your spot in the corner gives you a wonderful view of the world. Look at your wonderful use of insults. Soon you'll graduate to middle school insults. We are so proud 😉

      May 24, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @momoya- "Was the god of the Myan civilization clay?"

      ~Lol...you don't really get the whole point of "if horses had gods..." do you?
      The ancient Nabateans didn't have gods made of blocks of stone. They had gods that were blocks of stone...in that, that is exactly how they thought they looked. They didn't look human.

      May 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
  16. ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

    Treaty of Tripoli ,1797 : (written by Washington, signed by Adams, passed by unanimous consent).

    As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense,
    founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of
    enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen
    [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of
    hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the
    parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever
    produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two
    countries.

    May 23, 2012 at 6:28 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Yep..it wasn't founded on any Christian teachings but founded by a majority population that consisted of Christians.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Yes, but they understood the "tyranny of the majority". That's why it's NOT a "democracy". It's a Democratic Republic, where "ALL men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights". NOT just the Christians.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      I agree fully with that.
      Heck..I approve of the separation of state and church even. The same thing that keeps a Catholic teacher from making students say a prayer is the same thing that keeps an atheist teacher from telling students there is no God.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      They are NOT the same thing.There is NO evidence for any god. They want to teach Intelligent Design in schools. Give me ONE example of "atheist organized teachers", who want to teach that.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      ןן@ɐq ʎʞɔnq- "They are NOT the same thing.There is NO evidence for any god."

      ~Irrelevant to the point being made. The state has no more right to tell one what to worship than to tell a person there is no one to worship.

      "They want to teach Intelligent Design in schools. Give me ONE example of "atheist organized teachers", who want to teach that."

      ~I have no problem with a teacher teaching the concept of intelligent design, evolution, big bang theory...etc. Just as long as they do not give a theological preference to any of them.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Not irrelevant. YOU said "same thing" they are NOT "same thing'. And teachers should be teaching theories which have EVIDENCE for them. If they want to teach "myth systems" fine. Context is everything. ID is a "myth".

      May 23, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      "Not irrelevant. YOU said "same thing" they are NOT "same thing'."

      ~As far as the state is concerned...they are the same. The state has no right to say what is real or not real in the realm of religion. They can teach the history of where a religion came from and the historical people involved. But the state has NO right to say that any of those religions ( or their faounders) were wrong or right.

      "And teachers should be teaching theories which have EVIDENCE for them. If they want to teach "myth systems" fine. Context is everything. ID is a "myth"."

      ~I agree mostly. I still see no problem with covering the topic of intelligent design from the position of science. In that it can't really be tested by using scientific means. No more then the Big Bang Theory could be observed. One can only see the observable present in that regard.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • chubby rain

      "I still see no problem with covering the topic of intelligent design from the position of science. In that it can't really be tested by using scientific means. No more then the Big Bang Theory could be observed. One can only see the observable present in that regard."

      Depends. If your theory of intelligent design includes irreducible complexity, then intelligent design has been disproven in several cases while evolution has been supported. There is absolutely no scientific reason to mention ID.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @chubby rain- "Depends. If your theory of intelligent design includes irreducible complexity, then intelligent design has been disproven in several cases while evolution has been supported. There is absolutely no scientific reason to mention ID."

      ~That seems like reason enough that it should be mentioned in a science class.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      If you can't see the difference between evolution and ID, then you are lost. Should math teachers teach 2+2=5 just because some person might mistakenly believe that wholeheartedly? I want my kids to have an education based on FACTS, not based on myth.

      May 24, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @Jacques Strappe,- "Should math teachers teach 2+2=5 just because some person might mistakenly believe that wholeheartedly?"

      ~You make the error in thinking that ID is comparable to a simple math problem that is in error. And actually, math teachers do teach that in practice. They don't need to dedicate much to it beyond practice of proper math. In the case of ID, there is no reason that it cannot be briefly be examined. A discussion of it could really benefit students with how science works.

      "I want my kids to have an education based on FACTS, not based on myth."

      ~As far as facts can be found of course.

      May 24, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • Rob

      If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone – What evolution are you talking about. The changes in all life over time, or the idea the humans decended from Apes? If its Apes, you might check your sources. There is a hugh gap that doesn't even seem possible with gap that would have to be missing form acheolgical record. So if you follow the speed of evolution of mankind, the physical record gap is to small to make up the ground necessary from going to humans from Apes. Sure all life evolves.

      May 25, 2012 at 1:58 am |
    • brother walt gee

      Sorry Bucky Ball, you are a day late and a dollar short. Within weeks of this declaration, it was vacated and we went to war with the Muslims. In fact the Marines Hymn "to the shores of Tripoli," commemorates the United Statates Marines capturing Tripoli Lybya. From that time to this The Official Officer's Sword has been the Mameluke Sword captured circa 1800. A few years later we again were attacked by Muslims who pirated our merchantmen and sold off the crews as slaves. We again went in and attacked Algiers and held the Dey of Algiears hostage until the corn cobs released all of the hostages and slaves. Perhaps you may have heard of Stephen Decatur.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
  17. Leo

    Just sayin, With words like "Christian Taliban" does that make you a bigot?

    Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot", a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group.

    May 23, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
  18. HeavenSent

    just saying, my point is, you believe yourself to be on the winning side ... and if you aren't an offspring of Cain, you will be disposable as the good foot soldier they made you out to be.

    May 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Life is not a "contest" ("good" vs "evil") "Sin" ( the "fall") is a misunderstanding of an Ancient Near Eastern "chaos" myth, (stolen from "Tiamet Slays the Dragon of Chaos). It's not about "eating apples", it's a myth about the "Tree of Knowledge of good AND evil", (ie one has to make choices). Sin, ("salvation") was introduced to the new cult, (Christianity), by St. Paul, who stole it from Greek Mystery cults. Why do atheists have to teach you people the Bible ?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

      May 23, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      "Christianity), by St. Paul, who stole it from Greek Mystery cults"

      ~No real evidence to support this. Heck, there is very little reliable information on all that went on within the Mystery Cults themselves.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      prove it.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Can't prove a negative darlin. The burden of proof lies with you for the statement you made.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      no deary, YOU said "no real evidence". I have tons. You have the burden. I can show you when and how it happened.
      St Mark, written FIRST, says NOTHING about "salvation". Paul, (Greek influence), was written next.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      "no deary, YOU said "no real evidence". I have tons."

      ~For someone that claims to have tons..you have given none.

      "You have the burden."

      ~No I don't.

      "I can show you when and how it happened. St Mark, written FIRST, says NOTHING about "salvation". Paul, (Greek influence), was written next."

      ~First of the known Gospels written...yes. First written period? Probably not.
      Actually..Paul claimed more of his Jewish side than he ever did any Greek influence. He called himself a Pharisee and a descendant of Benjamin. You still fail to show how early Christianity lifted anything from the enigmatic greek mysteries.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  19. If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

    Of course the atheist sheep will find something to complain about with all this. So sad.

    May 23, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • just sayin

      Why would they complain??? The Founding Fathers would be appalled at how the Christian Taliban have conducted themselves. The Christian Right are so far left of what the Founding Fathers established.

      May 23, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      Because for the atheist sheep, anything that supports the notion that the United States supports religious freedom is horrible. Especially for those that come on here and bah bah about getting rid of religions all together or banning them.

      May 23, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • jqent

      Eh? Atheist sheep? isn't that the old pot calling the kettle black?

      May 23, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      People that do not study or research what they believe (or not believe) are sheep. Yes Virginia, there are atheist sheep out there.

      May 23, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Huebert

      @Nabateans

      How do you study not believing in god? I'm honestly curious about that.

      May 23, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • Huebert

      Is it the same way people study not beveling in leprechauns?

      May 23, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Atheists do not require a leader unlike the christards who claim they require a god to make their lives whole. We are quite capable of leading our own lives with an imaginary friend involved.

      May 23, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • just sayin

      Huebert

      Is it the same way people study not beveling in leprechauns?

      -----–

      LOL

      May 23, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @Huebert- "How do you study not believing in god? I'm honestly curious about that."

      Lol...so there is no study of atheism? Perhaps my wording wasn't the best there...but there are those that study things that take the place of religion. They replace the concept that many people have about faith with something else.
      Let's be honest, there was never an atheist that existed within a bubble. All atheists have known about some form of faith before they decide that faith was incorrect to them. I would hope most atheists actually did some kind of reasoning or study before blindly saying there is no divine being...otherwise they would be a sheep.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • just sayin

      "United States supports religious freedom"

      .....but yet the Christian Taliban want a Christian Nation, not a Nation of Free People. You don't recognize what the Christian Taliban is doing? Are you clueless as to their agenda and goal??????????

      May 23, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @TruthPrevails :-)- "Atheists do not require a leader..."

      There are Christians that do not require a leader. They are quite capable of leading there lives as they see fit.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • just sayin

      "All atheists have known about some form of faith before they decide that faith was incorrect to them. "
      .
      Not known...forced to believe is more like it...but that was their parents choice which within their parents rights. I have no issue with that.

      I have issue of any person imposing their morals and beliefs on others.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • just sayin

      "There are Christians that do not require a leader. They are quite capable of leading there lives as they see fit."
      .
      And everybody else should "fit" in with what the Christian Taliban sees "fit"

      May 23, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @just sayin- "....but yet the Christian Taliban want a Christian Nation, not a Nation of Free People. You don't recognize what the Christian Taliban is doing? Are you clueless as to their agenda and goal??????????"

      Lol....my gosh you must be linked with some Tea Party person. Take away a few words and replace them with Obama and Muslim and you couldn't tell the difference.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      "I have issue of any person imposing their morals and beliefs on others."

      As do I.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • Huebert

      @Nabateans

      Honestly if figured that is what you meant, I was just having fun with your wording.

      But in all seriousness, I argue that an "atheist sheep" it is difficult to come across in this country simply because most people are raised in a religious household. For most, atheism requires a close examining of at least one religion. Additionally most atheist didn't go from born again christian directly to atheism. Their is a middle step where many religions are examined, beliefs are questioned and friends and family are consulted and finally after years, at least in my own case, an individual becomes an atheist.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @Huebert- "I was just having fun with your wording."

      ~That's good.

      "Additionally most atheist didn't go from born again christian directly to atheism."

      ~My gosh I can finally lay down this Diogenes Lamp...I found an honest atheist. If you listen to most of the atheist on here, you would have thought they had a miraculous conversion to athiesm that would rival Paul's conversion to Christianity.

      "Their is a middle step where many religions are examined, beliefs are questioned and friends and family are consulted and finally after years, at least in my own case, an individual becomes an atheist."

      ~And I can respect that. You looked at your own beliefs, the beliefs of others and came to a conclusion of what you believe in. I may not agree with you nor you with me....but that doesn't mean we have to get all fussy and anger filled like so many on here do. Thank you for giving me (if you'll forgive the word usage) hope.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • just sayin

      If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @just sayin- "....but yet the Christian Taliban want a Christian Nation, not a Nation of Free People. You don't recognize what the Christian Taliban is doing? Are you clueless as to their agenda and goal??????????"

      Lol....my gosh you must be linked with some Tea Party person. Take away a few words and replace them with Obama and Muslim and you couldn't tell the difference.

      ---------

      My bad. I left out Atheist Taliban passing laws restricting the liberties of Christians in their homes and personal life.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      "I left out Atheist Taliban passing laws restricting the liberties of Christians in their homes and personal life."

      You are forgiven...because you know that with the right power, there would be atheists that would do just that. Being atheist doesn't make one morally superior in any way.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
    • Maya

      At the end of the day, you cannot point to single example of an atheist group in America EVER trying to make religion illegal or trying to get government to say there is no God. There are countless examples of Christians trying to get the government to sanction their God. Until you can come up with some evidence, you're just talking out your ***.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
    • If Nabateans had Gods ... their Gods would be blocks of stone

      @Maya- "At the end of the day, you cannot point to single example of an atheist group in America EVER trying to make religion illegal or trying to get government to say there is no God."

      ~Shockingly...I never said any atheist group ever tried. I only said that with the right power, there would be a atheist corrupt enough that would try to. Unless you think that atheists are beyond corruption.

      "There are countless examples of Christians trying to get the government to sanction their God. Until you can come up with some evidence, you're just talking out your ***."

      ~I won't disagree that some Christians have done that. It won't work with our form of govt. I am sorry for the most part you have spoken in ignorance of what I originally stated.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
  20. just sayin

    "The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy"

    "It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."

    May 23, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • just sayin

      If only the Christian Taliban understood words like that....*SIGH*

      May 23, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      It's Pretty to think that we all think that way

      May 23, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      just sayin, you atheists are clueless to who it is you truly follow. If you do know, then you are more devious than you appear on these blogs.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      HeavenSent, who do you think We Atheist follow?

      May 23, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      just sayin, you atheists are clueless to who it is you truly follow. If you do know, then you are more devious than you appear on these blogs.

      --

      Atheist????? I think you are assuming again. I have yet to meet a God to follow or worthy of worship. I have come across men telling me what Gods to follow. If you wish to follow Man then more power to you.

      May 23, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      John Q, the Pharisees. Same folks that pretended to be Jews so they could crucify Jesus. When you forget history, or, never learn true history, it repeats itself.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      John Q, the Pharisees. Same folks that pretended to be Jews so they could crucify Jesus. When you forget history, or, never learn true history, it repeats itself.


      And your point??????????

      May 23, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      just saying, my response got posted as a single post.

      Here it is again ...

      just saying, my point is, you believe yourself to be on the winning side ... and if you aren't an offspring of Cain, you will be disposable as the good foot soldier they made you out to be.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • just sayin

      The Pharisees were specific to the Jews in a time long ago. So are you saying he is actually following a school of thought within the Jews before Christ? Step outside the black and white delusional world of Devils, Pharisees, Demons throwing evil darts etc and think about what he asked.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      just saying, my response got posted as a single post.

      Here it is again ...

      just saying, my point is, you believe yourself to be on the winning side ... and if you aren't an offspring of Cain, you will be disposable as the good foot soldier they made you out to be.

      >>
      Some people do not realize how insane or delusional they sound. And again I point out you are relating to your delusional state and perception. Winning side???? The only battle or spiritual war is in your head. I am beginning to think it is impossible for you to have an independent thought based in reality. You truly do not live in reality nor see it based on the pattern of your responses in these blogs. I think it would be entertaining to watch you engage the public and people in person. I can only imagine how you sound walking through life. In your eyes, one person on here is doing the will of present day Pharisees and I think I am winning this spiritual battle against your God as a foot soldier.

      On a serious note, has a doctor ever prescribed medication related to your brain chemistry and make up? Were you ever seriously abused or experience something so tramatic that you shut down mentally?

      May 23, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      just sayin, you non-believers have it wrong. Jesus (truth) versus devil (lies) is all there is. First conversion to lies was stroking of your ego. Second conversion was that Jesus was a fairy tale. Third conversion is to believe there is no consequences to how you live life. Fourth conversion is to believe the lies of fake theories going directly again Jesus' truth. Should I go on, or, do you get it now? Anyway, if it weren't about Jesus' truth and satan's lies, why would you non-believers even bother to post? You post because you believe everything you've been feed that folks should be free from religion. Granted, man made religions are one issue, God's truth being all there is.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • just sayin

      Again I was being serious with my question. Started thinking back at past posts from you and always viewed you as simply religous spreading the "Word" kind of thing. Realized today it goes a little deeper for you and your reality is quite different.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I guess she answered one of your thoughts though. It seems like she can't have a thought of her own. She can only parrot what her preacher says.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      just sayin, you non-believers have it wrong. Jesus (truth) versus devil (lies) is all there is.
      ---–

      Well you are a troll having fun or you need professional help. SERIOUS. Look up Jesus Warrior on YouTube.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • just sayin

      HawaiiGuest

      I guess she answered one of your thoughts though. It seems like she can't have a thought of her own. She can only parrot what her preacher says.

      ----

      Goes deeper than that with her. Brain injury or something so tramatic it has warped her sense of reality. Jesus Warrior Lady all the way.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HEy, HS, how's it hangin'? Have you ever managed to convert anyone? Ever?

      I can't imagine your inability to do so, given your charming and persuasive nature.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Hawaiiguest, I don't know how many times I have to post that I don't attend church.

      Tommie, Tom, I've posted this already, but, I'll post it again. I am not into converting anyone. I post about Jesus so you hear His truth. Other than that ... skip.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @HeavenSent

      And I'm saying that I don't believe you. You have the standard preacher answers and apologetics for everything.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      just sayin, my post was blocked. Think about telling surviving families of m-u-r-d-e-red victims that there is no evil in the world. Go and tell surv-ivors of r-ap-e, there is no such thing as evil.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Here's a little tip for ya, HS: You posting /=anyone hearing. Or listening.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      HawaiiGuest, what planet are you from? I am not a preacher. Just someone that reads the Bible and abides in His truth. I don't have stocked answers for questions on this site. I happen to skip over most ridiculous questions or same asked questions that I responded a year ago.

      May 23, 2012 at 5:59 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      Hawaiiguest, I don't know how many times I have to post that I don't attend church.

      Tommie, Tom, I've posted this already, but, I'll post it again. I am not into converting anyone. I post about Jesus so you hear His truth. Other than that ... skip.

      ----

      Shame you arent spirit filled nor understand what that truly means or does.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • just sayin

      "Just someone that reads the Bible and abides in His truth."
      -–

      Bingo! Thank you.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @HeavenSent

      I can sum up every answer you give no matter what the question.

      *inconsequintial nothings* bible quote
      *inconsequintial nothings* godless heathens (though softened to atheists, but we all know what you really think about us)
      *inconsequintial nothings* I'm right because I say so (with no actual evidence to back up anything).

      May 23, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • Commenter

      HeavenSent,
      "Think about telling surviving families of m-u-r-d-e-red victims that there is no evil in the world."

      Who said that there is no 'evil' in the world? Yes, harmful things happen and people do harmful things, but you have taken a poetic personification for harm and have made it into a REAL thinking, functioning being.

      Have you heard the song, "They Call the Wind Mariah"? Do you think that there is really a woman there in that wind?

      May 23, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSents judgement stems from her view of her own guilt and tramatic situation. In her view, we are all HeavenSents and she is punishing herself through us.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Her "trauma" was getting fired from her job because no one in her office could stand her.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      just sayin, my post was blocked. Think about telling surviving families of m-u-r-d-e-red victims that there is no evil in the world. Go and tell surv-ivors of r-ap-e, there is no such thing as evil.

      -–

      There are evil acts...I know this from personal experience and I am a survivor.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent,

      I was that child at 4 years old that told their parents that they wanted to be like Jesus. I was that child that was beat on a daily basis by a 1st Southern Baptist with switches that he made me cut and gather. I was that child that was r a p ed that came forward and the family swept it under the rug for Jesus. I was that child that prayed to a God at 8 years old to kill him on a nightly basis. I was that person that became born again. I was that person that wanted to be a preacher. I was that person that took a walk into the wilderness and came to a final conclusion.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
    • just sayin

      I didnt come to my conclusion out of anger. I could not hate what was never present in my life. I based it on the silence.

      May 23, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, you just proved you do not abide in Exodus 20:16

      May 23, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gosh, woe is me. HS thinks I'm doomed. WAhhahha.

      Like I give two sh!ts about the opinion of a dried-up tw@t.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      2nd post ...

      just sayin, you walked through the fire and you are still standing.

      God Bless.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, reading your posts anyone can deduct that it's all about you. I know this truth about you ... John 8:44

      May 23, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, sweetie. The word is "deduce". Good try. The Russian Judge gives you a 4.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Thanks Tommie, Tom for being my secretary.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Thanks for being an illiterate dolt that requires one.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      It's called typing too fast without taking the time to proof read. If it bothers you. Too bad.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gee, what, HS, are you on life-support with a limited amount of time to bash others?

      What a sad thing.

      May 23, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • just sayin

      HeavenSent

      2nd post ...

      just sayin, you walked through the fire and you are still standing.

      God Bless.

      ---

      Yes, all part of God's plan putting the fire to a small child. *rolling eyes* Your self denial and ego is bigger than even you.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      just sayin, I was not ignoring any horror you went through. I too, have walked through the fire. However, our rewards are not in this world, but, in eternity with Him.

      Remember Matthew 6:9-15

      God Bless.

      May 23, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, dear, HS. Didn't you mean "walked through GETTING FIRED"?

      May 23, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommy Tom, sad to hear lying is a favorite pleasure. Sin does blind the sinner.

      May 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So I hear. When are you going to stop indulging?

      May 23, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, you're proving truth only matters when you want/need it. Other than that, you'll continue to cause chaos through lies. Thanks for proving what non-believers are like. No direction, only a crap shoot of grabbing at straws throughout life.

      May 24, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.