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May 23rd, 2012
12:57 PM ET
Mixed reactions around church whose pastor’s anti-gay rant went viralBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Maiden, North Carolina (CNN) – Just about everyone here is talking about the local pastor who made national headlines this week after a video that features him telling congregants how to “get rid of” gays went viral. Neighbors of the Providence Road Baptist Church – where a sign advertises “old time religion” - say Pastor Charles Worley is known for being over the top, with one neighbor describing him as “fire and brimstone” whose views are out of sync with much of the surrounding community. "I figured a way out, a way to get rid of all the lesbians and queers, but I couldn't get it past the Congress,” Worley told his church on May 13, in a video that has been seen half a million times on YouTube. “Build a great big, large fence – 50 or 100 miles long – and put all the lesbians in there,” Worley said. “Fly over and drop some food. Do the same thing with the queers and the homosexuals, and have that fence electrified so they can't get out. Feed them. And you know in a few years, they'll die out. You know why? They can't reproduce." My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage Some church members, who declined to give their names, defended their pastor, saying his words had been taken out of context. "He said he would feed them!" some church members told CNN, referring to the Worley’s idea for rounding up gays. Worley “takes a real firm stand on the Bible and what it says about different things,” said church member Joe Heffner. “Whether I like it or not or whether anybody else likes it." Another church member, who declined to give his name, said that “Being gay and lesbian or homosexual is wrong according to the Bible… it’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." My Take: The Bible condemns a lot, but here's why we focus on homosexuality "We love the people, hate the sin, OK? Point blank,” he continued. “You need to lay off my pastor." The pastor's sermon also attacked President Obama, with Worley saying that "I ain’t going to vote for a baby killer and a homosexual lover." On Wednesday, the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State filed a complaint with the IRS alleging that Worley violated the rules of his church's tax-exempt status by engaging in political speech against a candidate. “Pastor Worley’s vicious and mean-spirited assault on gays and lesbians is bad enough,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “His pulpit command that people not vote for President Obama is a violation of federal tax law. I urge the IRS to act swiftly to investigate this matter.” Video of the sermon had initially been posted on Providence Road’s website but was recently taken down, according to CNN affiliate WBTV-TV in Charlotte. The phone line at Worley’s church has been busy since Monday night, and Worley’s home number has been busy since Tuesday. The church’s website has also been down, but it had described the house of worship as fundamentalist, meaning it represents a Baptist tradition that's more conservative than the Southern Baptists. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Worley’s sermon was posted on YouTube by a group called Catawba Valley Citizens Against Hate, which is organizing a protest at the Providence Road Baptist Church on Sunday. Addressing his congregation last Sunday, Worley referred to his earlier controversial sermon. "I talked a little bit, I believe it was last Sunday, on the homosexual lifestyle, and there was a whole lot of people who didn't like what I said," Worley told his congregation Sunday, according to WBTV. "I want to read it out of the Bible, and then we'll go from there." “Listen, all of the Sodomites, the lesbians, and all of the ... what's that word? Gays – I didn't wanna say 'queers' – that say we don't love you, I love you more than you love yourself,” Worley said, according to WBTV. “I'm praying for you to be saved." Worley’s initial sermon was partly framed as a response to Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage, which he made in a TV interview a day after North Carolina voters passed a state constitutional amendment banning legal recognition of such marriages and other types of gay unions. The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, or GLAAD, was working Tuesday to gather criticism of Worley’s comments from other North Carolina pastors. “I am angry and sick at heart over Pastor Worley's comments,” said the Rev. Dennis Teall-Fleming, pastor at Open Hearts Gathering in Gastonia, North Carolina, in a statement distributed by GLAAD. “Nothing he says has anything to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ,” said Teall-Fleming, who leads a Disciples of Christ congregation. “I call on all Christian and Baptist organizations that have any connection with him to condemn his comments as strongly as I do, including Providence Road Baptist Church of Maiden.” –CNN's Dan Gilgoff contributed reporting. |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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And they'll know we are christians by our love?????????????????????????
New ho-mose-xuals are born every day. So lock up the ones already out there. More will come. Then what? Lock them up too? Pray it away? HA!
If the fence ensures that I'm isolated from rural people, then do what you have to do. We should rewrite the bible to say jump off of a tall bridge. There would be no Christians by morning.
Cut off this town's access to federal money and that town will shutdown. No more tax dollars wasted on these cretins.
Bill, Yes! What you are saying reminds me much about what Gandhi said that went something like "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." He was SO right, God Bless Him!!
There will always be a "hitler" in society, who uses hate of one group to somehow justify the failures in his own life. The sad part, tho, is that there also will be "good germans" who will listen and act upon that hate. These congregants who support this so-called pastor and his hateful rhetoric sicken me.
Not enough shootings in this world for my taste, but at least the congregation members who defended this numnut would all be in one place at the same time for convenience.
Naive Realism from a pastor.....shocking.
There is no context in which suggesting that gay people should be put in concentration camps is acceptable. None whatsoever. His words and his plan are horrifying and evil regardelss of what came before in that sermon and what came after.
Jesus never said "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Jesus said "Love the sinner". That's all. But regardless, putting people in concentration camps is never an act of love. Never.
His congregation should be ashamed of himself. The ones chorusing out the "Amens" to his calls for violence or containment should be the first to beg forgiveness. Concentration camps? In America? Really?
In the minds of all gay people, they are not sinners. Their relationships are as natural as rainwater.
It's disturbing to see people defending that psychotic pastor. It's so annoying to hear people like this pastor claim that they "love" the GLBT community more than we love ourselves after he encourages and promotes pure undiluted hatred and violence towards us.
That's because the town is "groupthinking" which comes from in-breeding. They all share a brain.
Cut this town from federal tax dollars. I don't want my taxes wasted on in-breds.
Just another hate-mongering, self-described Christian who not only does not follow Christian doctrine but actually preaches against it. Jesus wept.
Christian Taliban isn't very different from Islamic Taliban... (or Orthodox Jewish Taliban, for that matter...)
What orthodox Jewish Taliban you ignoramus?
Jordan – learn before you start calling names.In Israel itself there is conflict between Orthodox fundamentalists and less primitive interpretations.
Maybe we should put Pastor Worley behind a fence... After all, we could feed him, too. Would that be right?
Full-disclosure, I'm a fundamental Baptist born-again Christian. And I hope it goes without saying that I don't agree with or condone what this man said. It goes against the scriptures and the gospel of Jesus Christ. But I notice a lot of Christian bashing going on and just plain wrong beliefs about what the gospel is and says. So with that being said, I offer myself up if you have any questions about the Bible or Christianity. I'm no scholar, but I'll answer as honestly and as best I can.
Dear Topher,
I applaud you for your honesty and compassion. I am Gay, and have Christ within me since 1988. I have been so blessed, and would like to encourage all Gays to also look towards Christianity or be open to it. I would like to share a truth with you that is small, yet, to me, profound. I was born Gay.
Keep up the good work!
Topher, do you realize that non-believers are more bible literate than believers? Most of us are from religious families and reading the bible to try to understand the things the pastor said that made absolutely no sense, like Worley, was one of the steps to giving up on religion.
Topher,
I am not a Christian nor have I ever been. What does the Bible (Old and New) say about Gays? Family? and Love?
Of course you're no scholar, you're a fundamentalist Christian.
Topher, tnfreethinker is correct the main reason I'm not a Christian is because I read the Bible.
Sure, I have a question. Did you know that the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh was one of many gods in the pantheon of deities the ancient Israelites worshipped? He was their war-god. In the Old Testament he was called "god of armies" more than any other ti-tle (besides the generic LORD, El, Elohim) There was a group of Israelites that viewed Yahweh as the war God and another group that sided with Ba'al. You should do some research on it. It is quite fascinating.
I've read the Bible, in its entirety, because I was a "Christian" at one time and I wanted to know what that book actually says, not what somebody else thinks it says. I admit that there are a lot of great suggestions for ways to live your life in the Bible, but the behavior of Christians these days tells me most of them haven't actually read the book or only read the parts about God being jealous, vindictive and angry - that's not the God I believe in. The Bible actually convinced me to be agnostic and I now have more faith in Pantheist views!
JohnQuest
Hi, John. I think the Bible is very clear about what it says on these topics. And since I hold the Bible up as the word of God I have to go with what it says over any interpretation by man. This also means that most of you aren't going to like what I say here. I can start you out by quoting from Leviticus ... "Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." I know I'm going to get ripped for that quote, but I'm just telling you what it says. Next, Jesus confirmed it in the book of Matthew when he said "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?" ... more to come ...
There are other passages as well that I could quote you but I don't think the words would get past CNN censors. And I know a lot of you are going to be mad at me, but let me also tell you what the Bible says about love. This is the good news, also known as The Gospel. It says that no matter what sin you have in your life, you can be forgiven. Jesus' death and resurrection provides a way we can go to Heaven. We all have sinned and deserve Hell. The Bible says we have all fallen short of the glory of God and that there is none good, no not one. Every one of us has broken the Commandments. But forgiveness is offered by repentance (not just saying you are sorry, but also turning from the sin) and trusting in Jesus to be who He claimed to be. And if you do that, you will be forgiven and go to Heaven when you die. Isaiah says though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow. Now that's a story of LOVE!
Freedom From Religion
You could be right. I'm sure there are plenty of "Christians" who don't read the Bible and don't know what it says. Actually, I called myself a Christian for 10 years and never once did I open the Bible nor did I have any clue about what it said. Obviously that's different now. Yes, the Bible does have good "advice" on how to live, but that's not what it's about. Let's face it. Jesus made some pretty serious claims. He said He was God. So he can only be one of three things. 1. He is who He claimed to be ... God who came to be a ransom for many. 2) Or He just thought he was but wasn't. 3) Or He was a liar. My opinion is that He was the first option. He wasn't just a good guy or a smart teacher.
Also, you shouldn't judge Christianity on the actions of people. The Bible, after all, says we're all wretched, disgusting sinners. So even our own book doesn't look too kindly on us. If you want to judge Christianity, that's fine. Just judge it on what it says in our holy book.
Topher – your bible does not say what you think it says. The word hômosèxuality wasn't coined until the middle 1800's. What your bible was talking about was prostîtution, idolatry, temple worship, etc.
Regardless of that – fundamentalists claim that gays choose to be gay. Tens of thousands of you have posted this hundreds of thousands of times on the internet over the past 15 years. Over this same period of time, we have asked you folks tens of thousands of times, to post the citations to peer-reviewed scientific research supporting your contention that gays choose to be gay – and thus by corollary that straights choose to be straight.
To be fair, we have posted the citations to hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific research showing the multivariate biological nature of sèxual orientation.
Sadly, after 15 years, and tens of thousands of requests, not a single solitary one of you has posted a single solitary citation. Not once. Ever.
My questions to you are:
1. Why won't any fundiots post the citations to peer reviewed science showing gays choose to be gay?
2. What is your scientific evidence gays choose to be gay?
3. Since we know that gays are born gay, how is it a sin? They made no choice.
4. Since the US is not a theocracy, what is your justification for discriminating against them?
5. Why do fundiots claim the 14th amendment doesn't apply to gay marriage?
Primewonk
Why must you call me names? Can't we talk like adults here?
Well, as far as I know I figure it is a choice for some and a natural proclivity for others. I am not gay and so cannot say for sure if it is just one or the other.
I'll try to answer each of your questions to the best of my ability.
1. I have no idea. I don't personally read those sorts of things, so I can't give you one, either. I would happily concede that it is a natural thing. That being said, you'd have to have all-knowledge to say nobody has ever posted one. But then, perhaps there isn't one to post. I don't know.
2. I don't have any and I've never said that it was only a choice.
3. It is a sin because "thus says the Lord." It's not the only sin. There's a lot of sins I naturally want to do, too. But the Lord is more important to me than those sins. So I choose not to do them. Just because you have those tendencies doesn't mean you will be sent to Hell. It is choosing to act on them and living that way that will send you there.
4. I don't think I have discriminated against anyone. If a man wants to live with and sleep with another man, he already has that right. What he does behind closed doors is none of my business. My business is to warn them of what happens to lawbreakers without a savior.
5. I can't even tell you what the 14th amendment is without looking it up. What does it say? Help me out.
"My business is to warn them of what happens to lawbreakers without a savior." Topher, get over your prideful self. Men who have the desire to enjoy s.xual activity with another man, but who do not face up to it are in the closet. The only reason a closet exists for people like that is – people like you! You carry this dreadful shame into the future like its your own personal Cross. Maybe it is, like that ugly pastor whose English was a disgrace. The quote I copied from you is reprehensible. No one appointed you anything. How about if you switch jobs an join the fashion police. Everywhere you go, you can give dirty little looks to people who wear pearls with corduroy. Who needs your outlook? You're just a fortune teller in a turban.
jungleboo
Ah. More name calling. Very mature.
"The quote I copied from you is reprehensible. No one appointed you anything."
You're wrong. Jesus gave us The Great Commission. We are to spread His Gospel. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19-20.
No one would look at me and think I am qualified to work for the fashion police. 🙂
Also, I don't wear turbans. I'm a Christian. Perhaps you are confused.
I've read the bible, so I know what it says. You don't have to put yourself out there to "witness".
Topher, you are doing an excellent job and showing loving patience by trying to show your point of view through the Scriptures. Im a christian myself and find it hard to explain this sort of topic only to be called names and be looked down upon citing lack of intelligence. When certain people have their minds made up there is no reasoning with them and the best you can hope for is maybe they will remember your words later and actually sit down and think it out. Keep up the good work my brother in Christ.
He promotes condemnation, discrimination, and CRUCIFIXION of Gay people ... WOW! True Christian!
PRAISE GOD for the universal law, "what one sows, so shall they reap"!
Some church members, who declined to give their names, defended their pastor, saying his words had been taken out of context. "He said he would feed them!" some church members told CNN, referring to the Worley’s idea for rounding up gays.
I'm sorry. In what context would his c.omments have been acceptable? In what context is it good and right to throw away any segment of our society, to lock them up as if they are criminals over a matter of birth? Would it still be acceptable if we changed "gay" to "left handed" or "brown eyed" or "dark ski.nned"?
And really...because he said they would be fed, it makes it okay?
Another church member, who declined to give his name, said that “Being gay and lesbian or ho.mos.exual is wrong according to the Bible… it’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."
According to Christian mythology, God did make Adam and Eve. He also made Steve and all the rest. I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but if you're going to throw all gay people into some prison because your bible says that it is wrong to be gay, then be ready to set up camps for those who eat shrimp and lobster, and another for the ones who wear po.lyester, and the ones who c.ommit adultery, etc.
Why did you put periods and dashes in words? I understand if s e x gets censored or something, but test? poly? com?
I couldn't figure out which word was being censored. I'd hit all the ones I knew about and couldn't find whatever else was hanging up. When I finally found it, I forgot to go back and take the rest out.
Don't forget all the women who wear pants which is also an "abomination" according to the OT.
How about all the people that can't have children like menopausal women? Bet Worley would lock up his wife in a heartbeat so he can have that 24 year old wench in the choir.l
I'm pretty sure Jesus came to destroy "old time religion".
can i come and destroy new time religion?
When I was growing up in North Carolina and especially in the area, the Baptist Churches were known for their compassion, love and charity towards others and were respected. Now because of these mixture of Jerry Falwell/Rush Limabaugh types and the hooting and hollaring of their crazy preachers about gays and abortions, people will actually run away from a church that has the Baptist name on it, even if that church is not part of the craziness. It is time that the Baptist go back to the concept of priesthood of believers and insist that their preachers preach the Bible instead of against Democrats, Obama, gays and abortion and stop building big church so they can split and build more before their Jesus comes to get the and they all wind up in their hell like they are going to if they don't obey the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the goons who are preaching in some of their churches today.
It is truly sad that more and more people are moving away from Christianity because of the fear and hatred being preached against Gay people. It's even sadder that Gay people think Christianity is bad because of this. I am a Gay man. I accepted myself as the Gay man God created me to be in 1988. Till then I fought myself, and was miserable. Jesus came into my heart, and my life has been blessed ten-fold since. I have been in a loving relationship with a wonderful man for 15 years. Christianity is NOT exclusive to straight people. God created Gays for a reason, and will stand by, protect, and bless them ... God does not make mistakes. We all need to come back to the table. These holier than thou, pastors will pay the price in God's time ... what one sows, so shall they reap.
Steve, your post is refreshing. I would suggest that the devotion aimed at a "Jesus in your heart" is nothing more than an awareness of the Divinity that is naturally within all of us, and of which we are fully conscious when we are silent and at peace, in a creative state. My reference to the Divinity within has nothing to do with the puppet show that most people think of when they refer to God. It is not that at all. It need not be explained in words, either. The Unified Field of Consciousness is a term that addresses the fact that the Universe is the ultimate form of awareness, and as such, imbues us with all that is necessary to remain in steady contact with its goodness. It is not a person making decisions. It simply is, and so are you and me. Therefore, we are best when we dwell within that realization, recognize it in its simplicity, create from the special awareness, and enjoy the ride. Attaching names, dates, places, times, and words to a marionette that you have named 'God' only serves to separate you from others whose concepts of names, dates, places, times, and words are quite different from yours. As soon as you give IT any of those characteristics, IT is most certainly not that, because the whole point is that it is indescribable in and of itself. Congratulations on living an authentic life. The pastors leading those packs of wolves are without a doubt Falshood itself.
This has to be one of the most hateful sermons I ever heard. It's so hateful that it's absurd but disturbing because this man's solutions are in step with Adolph Hitler. Religious leaders of this kind are reasons so many gays have turned away from organized religion but not necessarily God or Christianity.
I suspect this video is a form of propaganda, dishonesty and hypocrisy because because an echo can be heard and many empty chairs observed, which is evidence this video was not taken during a scheduled Sunday service. Church and state should be kept separate and the church needs to start paying taxes if this "inbredcile" of a minister wants to go into politics.
HATE IS THE ABOMINATION!!!
Wait so you are saying put all the lesbians in one fenced off area, then all the gays in another fenced off area and they won't be able to reproduce? Well that would be true of straight men and women too. Put straight men in one fenced off area and straight women in another and they would die off too.
Jacques, you win the award for BEST POST OF THE DAY! Congratulations.
(And the great thing is you didn't have to call the reverend any bad names, or insult anyone's "beliefs". Sometimes, after all, it's enough to point out how stupid some people are. As someone once said, "Duh!?!") Thanks for your post, Jacques.
Great comment...LOL...you are so right. Then again, who said red neck, closed-minded, religious zealots were smart. I mean they believe Jonah lived inside a whale for a whale...that J turned water into wine...all the tall tales...LOL!
Glad you guys enjoyed the post. I just wish using logic wasn't something that was avoided by most people (especially those who hold position of religious authority).
I never thought I see the day where I'd advocate church burning.
What a stupid comment,you made a very stupid comment
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Rev 18:4
Get the people out of the buildings and burn them down!!
I feel the same way but I believe the best way is to invade the town and occupy it.
"Some church members, who declined to give their names, defended their pastor, saying his words had been taken out of context. "He said he would feed them!" some church members told CNN, referring to the Worley’s idea for rounding up gays."
Not sure whether to laugh hysterically or just kind of...die of horror.
I can see his point but it was a very bad choice of words.
It is horrifying. It is hard for me to compare anything to the Nazi atrocities because it is such an overused analogy but he is not advocating anything different than the concentration camp idea.
@ a Person
You mean his plan to round up a specific group of people and concentrate them in a fenced off camp. I think someone tried this in Germany in the 1930's and early 1940's. Do you remember who that was?
He was making a point but it still was wrong.
No he wasn't making a good point. If you take any group of people and separate them by gender and fence them off, they will all die off eventually. That's not a good point, that is common sense.
I didn't say anything about it be a good point. I said I seen the point he was trying to make.
A person can see the point he was making, you know, the point of when you have a group of pople you dislike and don't want to share "your" world with you have to brainstorm ideas about how to get rid of them in a semi-humane manner, you know, like euthanizing stray cats or poisening the water supply of natives or getting them to walk a few thousand miles to an internment camp, i mean "reservation" where many will die along the way which reduces your cost of running it. I mean, even Hitler had a lot of points, he was very good at making points, it's just the points made were for reverting the world back to the dark ages of violence and horror, you know, the period where the Church held more sway than any government.
Hitler did round up the gays and placed them in concentration camps. The method used to kill them was "Extermination through Work" and beating them to death.
"Ye who harm the gentle gay children will reap the harm that thee hast sown." HoeMoeErectus 3:17
Dear Pastor "Not So Bright"/"Red Neck" Worley,
(ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS)
o "Abrahamics" like you believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "
2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
3. See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
(Note: some words hyphenated to defeat the moderators "secret" word/fragment filter.)