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May 25th, 2012
12:43 PM ET

Perkins on opposing same-sex marriage

(CNN)–Tony Perkins, head of the conservative Family Research Council, argues that children lose when gay marriage is legalized and that such unions represent the death knell of marriage.

Perkins  spoke with CNN's Brooke Baldwin.

Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Gay marriage • TV-CNN Newsroom

soundoff (694 Responses)
  1. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS OF THIS BLOG

    "Abrahamics" like Perkins believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine periodin the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    3. See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions are supposed to obey the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

    And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-s-ex unions not same-s-ex marriages.

    From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, gay se-xual activity is still mutual masturbation caused by one or more complex se-xual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

    Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

    -=-=-=-=-----------------–

    May 27, 2012 at 7:46 am |
  2. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    May 27, 2012 at 6:52 am |
    • Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer has been shown to have no discernible effect towards what was prayed for.
      Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just go to http://santorum.com to find out more.
      Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
      Prayer makes you fat.
      Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
      Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
      Prayer fucks up your knees and your neck and your back.
      Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
      Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
      Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
      Prayer makes you think doilies are exciting.
      Prayer makes you secretively flatulent and embarrassed about it.
      Prayer makes your kids avoid spending time with you.
      Prayer gives you knobbly knees.
      Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just google him to find out.
      Prayer dulls your senses.
      Prayer makes you post really stupid shit.
      Prayer makes you hoard cats.
      Prayer makes you smell like shitty kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
      Prayer wastes time.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
  3. Nii

    The Fallacy of Knowledge
    All learning is man seeking the unknown. Some are deemed more accurate by guess who man! If science and the Bible avoid absolutes it is for this purpose. Atheists believe in absolutes and lose religious arguements then they rant about other religions as lies. JWs do better!

    May 27, 2012 at 5:30 am |
    • TR6

      @Nii:” Atheists believe in absolutes and lose religious arguements then they rant about other religions as lies. “

      So you believe that all religions are true and that you “loose religious arguments” when you rant that any religion beyond your own is a lie?

      May 28, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
  4. Over It

    "His foreknowledge does not negate our freedom to Choose."

    - Yes it does obliterate it. We CANNOT choose other than what "He" already knows.

    "God knew creatures He created would reject Him and choose separation from Him, before He created them."

    - And "He" created them anyway - to suffer eternal torture?

    May 27, 2012 at 2:04 am |
  5. PRISM 1234

    Tony Perkins is right in everything he stands for!

    May 26, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • Evangelical

      I second that.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • Rick

      Tony Perkins is a bigot appealing to other bigots.

      May 27, 2012 at 6:12 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      "Tony Perkins is a bigot appealing to other bigots" – Rick

      “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
      Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you" – Jesus Christ

      Whose words matter more?

      May 27, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      Mine do, PRISM. Do you feel all martyr like.....like Jesus?

      So, you equate Jesus with bigotry?

      Tell us why it is Christian to deny people EQUAL RIGHTS.

      May 29, 2012 at 9:44 am |
  6. Bobs Friend

    Boy, Tony just beat her about the head & face with facts: Speaking of facts here are a few:
    1. Hormones change physical development (Used for S<E<X change patients)
    2. Male and female fetuses are anatomically the same until hormones initiate gender development
    3. "The Pill" is a massive dose of the female hormone estrogen
    4. Women still get pregnant on the Pill, without knowing they're pregnant
    5. Gay men frequently have female brain structure

    Being gay may be the result of being a fetus exposed to estrogen in utero during the gender development stage.

    May 26, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • Bobs Friend

      I suspect that the introduction of the Pill in western societies explains the explosion of gay life since the pill was introduced. I also suspect that a certain, low percentage of hormonally affected (gay) people have always been produced naturally (see "Bell Curve"), which explains why Gays have always been around, but not at the percentages we see today.

      We've opened Pandoras box, because we wanted to have s>e>x without producing children

      May 26, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      "God has a plan". Oops.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      @ Bucky: Any and everything that man does, whether Good or evil, has been accounted for by God in His plan. There are no unexpected events for Him. No "OOPS". All of history is one equation. God knew creatures He created would reject Him and choose separation from Him, before He created them. Nevertheless, His foreknowledge does not negate our freedom to Choose.
      Jesus gave two commandments: Love God, and Love you neighbor as yourself. Yet it is impossible to live out these commandments without Him. Anyway, Jesus changed my life forever, in a miraculous way. I recommend you give your life to Him, it is a blessed way to live, not to mention in the here after.

      May 27, 2012 at 1:54 am |
  7. A Serpent's Thought

    @ ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

    Dark energy currently accounts for 73% of the total mass-energy of the universe.

    Dark matter accounts for 23% of the mass-energy content of the observable universe

    Therefore 96% of the known universe consists of dark matter and dark energy leaving but 4% of atomic matter. Still it does not compute that within any atom lies a spacial void and if one were to make an atom 150,000,000 times bigger, trhe electron would be seen quite far away from the atom's nucleus leaving emptied space in between the electron(s) and te nucleus.

    If nothngness were to be made up of dark energy and dark matter just what would such things look like?

    May 26, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      too bad, so sad. That information is outdated.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • Evangelical

      It appears bucky ball puts his faith in science and not in God.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • Evangelical

      Science has largely been discredited. Most recently it was the big lie about global warming.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      Just because you are completely clueless about it doesn't mean that science is wrong. If you think that global warming was a "big lie", you clearly don't understand what is going on.

      It would help if you stopped getting your "sciency" information from you preacher, and instead open your mind, ears and eyes and get an education.

      It is people like you that are pushing the US off the cliff. It is the imbecilic mentality of the believers that causes education to fail our kids. It is morons like you that will drive the US downward in every field, and cause it to lose any competitive edge it may once have had.

      While you are free to believe whatever nonsense you want, after all stupidity isn't illegal, you should try to keep it to yourself.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:53 am |
    • Evangelical

      LinCA,

      If you think that by insulting me, you can somehow change God's truth or somehow change reality to make it be like what is in your mind, you are wrong. You cannot justify hom-os-exuality by turning to a discredited platform of beliefs like science. And if you doubt that global warming is a big lie, just do a google search using the terms "global warming" and "scam."

      May 27, 2012 at 1:31 am |
    • Rick

      Evangelical is yet another pompous dweeb who thinks he or she knows the mind of god

      May 27, 2012 at 6:14 am |
    • AGuest9

      Sadly, Ignorance truly is strength to some.

      May 27, 2012 at 8:02 am |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      You said, "If you think that by insulting me, you can somehow change God's truth or somehow change reality to make it be like what is in your mind, you are wrong."
      The fact that you, as an adult, speak of "god's truth" and "reality" in the same sentence is laughable. The two concepts are mutually exclusive. If you believe that there is a creature like the christian god, you must first let go of reality. Until there is some evidence to support the claims that there are gods, it is unreasonable to believe they do.

      You said, "You cannot justify hom-os-exuality by turning to a discredited platform of beliefs like science."
      Homosexuality doesn't need justification. Just as left handedness, liking certain foods, or having a favorite color, don't need justification. If you don't like it, don't do it. It is that simple.

      Anyone who tries to deny anyone else to be with and love the person they want, is a hateful bigot. If your religion tells you to do that than your religion is wrong. Period.

      Freedom of religion gives to the right to believe and worship as you want. That same freedom applies equally to everyone else. You are free to believe in fairy tales. You are free to live your life by them. You are not free to expect anybody else to accept that bullshit as true. You are even less free to force those despicable life style choice on anyone.

      You said, "And if you doubt that global warming is a big lie, just do a google search using the terms "global warming" and "scam.""
      You can find anything on the internet. Search for "Obama" and "birth certificate" and you'll find "evidence" tat he isn't a US citizen. Search for "9/11" and "government conspiracy" and you'll find "proof" to show it was out own government that brought down the towers. If you apply the same though process and reasoning that you apply to your religion, to a phenomenon or event you don't like, you can find evidence to support your theory.

      Global warming is a fact, and there is a very strong correlation to human activity. I don't expect you to believe it as it is clear that you are incapable of rational thought. But just because you are too dense, doesn't mean it isn't true.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:23 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Ah, but you see, LinCA, hom-ose-xuality is not like being left-handed or liking a particular type of food. There is a moral question concerning ho-mos-exuality that does not exist in the other things you mentioned. You are making a false analogy. But I'm sure that morality means nothing to you based on how you continue to insult those you disagree with. Ho-mos-exuality is evil. Being left handed is not.

      And you will find out, I hope not too late, that God is the ONLY reality.

      May 27, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      You said, "Ah, but you see, LinCA, hom-ose-xuality is not like being left-handed or liking a particular type of food. There is a moral question concerning ho-mos-exuality that does not exist in the other things you mentioned. You are making a false analogy."
      If you are suggesting that homosexuality is a choice you are wrong. That in and of itself shouldn't surprise anyone, as you have clearly shown that you are intolerant of facts.

      You said, "But I'm sure that morality means nothing to you based on how you continue to insult those you disagree with. Ho-mos-exuality is evil. Being left handed is not."
      Calling homosexuality evil shows that you are a despicable human being. It is on the same level as calling being black evil. Being gay doesn't cause any harm to anyone. It isn't in any form detrimental to society. It is bigots like you, that demonize your fellow citizens, that are a cancer on society. Your ilk and your misguided delusions are the cause of some of the greatest harm in our country.

      You said, "And you will find out, I hope not too late, that God is the ONLY reality."
      Any adult that still believes in fairy tales should be evaluated for mental retardation. I suggest you find the nearest mental health facility and have yourself checked out. Religion is a delusion. It has no bearing on reality.

      May 27, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • Evangelical

      LinCA,

      You are as vile as you can be, and it just demonstrates that atheists and ho-mos-exuals make up their morality as they go along. A ho-mos-exual orientation may not be a choice, but ho-mos-exual behavior most certainly IS a choice. Nobody choses their skin color or handedness. There is NO equivalence between innate characteristics and sinful behavior.

      May 28, 2012 at 12:51 am |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      Here is a primer on "sin".
      Sin is a religious concept. Sin is a violation of a religious rule or law. There is no sin in secular law. Sin only applies to those that follow that particular religion.

      The US constitution guarantees everyone the exact same right to freedom of religion. That means that while you are free to believe as you wish, that right is equally available to everyone else. For everyone else to be able to freely choose their religion, yours can be of no consequence in that choice. Your religion is yours alone. Nothing, and I mean nothing, not one iota, of your religion extends beyond you. What you believe can't, in any way, determine what anyone else does.

      Your holy book doesn't have any jurisdiction over anyone who doesn't follow your religion. Whatever your fairy tale prohibits can only determine what you aren't allowed to do. Your religious rules don't even prohibit anyone from comitting murder. Secular law does that.

      You said, "You are as vile as you can be, and it just demonstrates that atheists and ho-mos-exuals make up their morality as they go along."
      You may want to take a look in the mirror. It is the evangelicals like yourself that are a cancer on society. It is scum like you that try to impose your bronze age morals on the rest of us.

      You said, "A ho-mos-exual orientation may not be a choice, but ho-mos-exual behavior most certainly IS a choice."
      Just as is heterosexual activity. Whatever anyone else does is none of your goddamned business.

      May 28, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • sam stone

      Okay, Evangelical....let's try this again.....where is the big push to deny other sinners their CIVIL RIGHTS?

      May 29, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • sam stone

      "There is NO equivalence between innate characteristics and sinful behavior."

      Gee, Evangelical, there is no equivalence between innate characteristics and any behavior.

      Morality SHOULD change. Do you seriously feel that the morality applicable to an iron age, middle eastern, agrarian society applies to 21st century man?

      We are still waiting on all those "special rights" that you feel gays are demanding.

      May 29, 2012 at 9:52 am |
  8. A Serpent's Thought

    ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

    I greatly appreciate it if whenever you quote thhe gosples you would also cit the chapters and verses! Please? I haven't much time left here upon this world. I'm kinda running short on time! Any shortcuts are to be appreciated qq!

    May 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
  9. Voice of Reason

    Put five believers in a room and 5 nonbelievers in another room. Show each of the groups a photo of a duck. The nonbelievers unanimously agree that it is a duck while the believers will disagree. There lies my point. We cannot even begin to have an intelligent reasoning conversation with the believers as they don't have a clue what a duck is.

    May 26, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer: The non-believers have obsessive compulsive disorders. Now, go and fight, and fight and fight and fight over this. LOL.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      That's because the believers are still looking for a crocoduck.

      May 28, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
  10. Voice of Reason

    Religion and god are all made-up for control and fear. It pollutes the mind. In fact, religious people have a lack of critical thinking. They don't question, they just accept blindly. How can a person live without questioning? When we question the veracity and validity of the bible we are beaten-down with rocks of intolerance, ignorance and bigotry. Nasty small-minded people lost on a wonderful planet, walking and talking aimlessly about nothing that really matters.

    May 26, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside you.

      1Corinthiansr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      Please if you will VoR explain these two verses.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
  11. Holly in CA

    I agree with everything Tony Perkins said in his interview. I loved how he backed up his arguments with facts and research. Brooke Baldwin was trying to argue from an emotional perspective and failed trying to prove her point.

    May 26, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      There is no "research". At the end of the Appeals Cort case re Prop 8, the judge asked "How does same-s'ex marriage threaten traditional marriage". The Plaintiff's attorney replied : "I don't know".

      May 26, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • Wrath of Crom

      She was accidentally being sarcastic.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      ןן@ ɐq ʎʞɔnq, "There is no "research". At the end of the Appeals Cort case re Prop 8, the judge asked "How does same-s'ex marriage threaten traditional marriage". The Plaintiff's attorney replied : "I don't know".

      It may not threaten "traditional" marriage but the consequences of same-s.e.x marriages being taught in early school years of chidren may well have societal consequences to be paid! Such marriages outside the bboundaries of traditional marriages will not be known in a few years but rather 10 or so years down the line! Take what was said by Mr Perkins regarding the state of Mass. and what happened after same s.e.x marriage was made egal.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Jen

      I live in Massachussetts so know a lot more than Tony Perkins about what happened here. Nothing! Nothing happened! I'm also from Canada where gay marriage has been legal for years and nothing changed there either.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Jen,

      Either Mr Perkins doesn't have his facts straight or you are not keeping up with the facts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,???????

      May 26, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
    • Jen

      Mr. Perkins does not have his facts straight. Glad I could clear that up for you.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
  12. An inconvenient truth

    Archaeology has shown Sodom and the cities of the plains to be actual places that were traded with. Not myth but actual locations.

    May 26, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Mount Olympus is a real place.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
    • TR6

      @An inconvenient truth:”Archaeology has shown Sodom and the cities of the plains to be actual places”

      I call BS on you. Please post references to this from publications in pear reviewed archaeology jurnal(s) or lacking that, post the source of you claim. Also please post evidence that Sodom was destroyed as described in the bible

      May 28, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      And Uruk was a real place too.
      That's doesn't mean that Gilgamesh was a demi-god who rules for 125 years.

      May 28, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
  13. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things. .

    May 26, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Obviously it does not change YOU. Idiot.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Prayer changes lives
      Prayer has changed MY life
      Prayer changes things

      May 26, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Jen

      My children are being raised by me (an agnostic), and are the healthiest, kindest, most beautiful and intelligent children on the planet.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      You changed. The fact that a follows b, is no proof that b is the cause of a.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:18 pm |
    • just sayin

      If the Bible cannot be used to prove the Bible then jen cannot be trusted to assess its kids. God bless

      May 26, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • just sayin

      @ bucky
      You were told by the subject that a followed b. God bless

      May 26, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Being told the chronologically perceived sequence, is proof of nothing. The sun came up this morning. I fell of my surf board this afternoon. Obvioulsy the sun did it. OMG. You are NOT that stupid.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • Jen

      Well if I used the bible I would have to instruct my daughters that they must obey their future husbands, as they are lesser beings than men. If I did that, no one can dispute that I am a terrible mother. So obviously no good mother would tell their daughters that they are less than equal, but the bible is clear that this is the case. That's a plain and simple and indisputable fact.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      And Jen could kill her disobedient children.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • just sayin

      You were plainly told that prayer changed a specific life by the life that was changed. Take it or leave it, you have chosen to discount or change anothers personal testimony because it does not agree with your preconceived prejudice and hatred. I choose to accept the testimony at face value. God bless

      May 26, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • just sayin

      As to jens supposed children, they are already killed by jen, spiritually. Physical death is only a short lifetime away. Hopefully and prayerfuilly those abused children will meet Christ before that happens. The physical deaths of the Bible represent the spiritual deaths we face today in much the same fashion and are there as a loving warning to us to avoid that danger. God bless

      May 26, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Good post just sayin.

      Amen.

      May 26, 2012 at 11:17 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      When you die, your brain chemistry ceases. That's it. The rest is delusion. "Meeting christ" is delusion. If you had a brain injury, your mental capacity is damaged. When you die it stops. You have not a shred of evidence for anything else.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Jen

      Good post Heavensent? Only an evil person would say that a one year old and a three year old are going to hell. Therefore you and justsayin are without question evil people. And yet you think that you are going to 'heaven' and my sweet children aren't? Are you kidding? My children and I are also much more intelligent than you. My one year knows prayerfuilly is not a word and justsayin doesn't. So again, evil and stupid people are going to heaven but smart and kind people aren't? You do realize how that makes no sense right? I realize I'm dealing with extreme unintelligence but you at least know that right?

      One thing is for certain. If there is a hell both of you are going there. God bless!

      May 27, 2012 at 9:18 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Jen, your ego is out of control. We are referring to His spiritual truth. You, being concerned about staying at your carnal level haven't cared to develop ears to hear or eyes to see His truth we posted. Hopefully, your children will find their true spiritual selves.

      May 27, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Jen

      I'm at a carnal level? Strange – I have a masters degree and make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. But hey, you with your high school diploma (if that) and minimum wage job are certainly much more intelligent than I am.

      You are evil. That is a fact. If you believe in Heaven and Hell great. You are going to burn in Hell! God Bless!

      May 27, 2012 at 1:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jen, all the money and degrees in this world are earthly possessions and have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus' spiritual truth. Your carnal existence of keeping your ego in tack is preventing you from going and staying humble to see or hear what Jesus has to teach.

      May 27, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • Jen

      Tact not tack. Get an education! And I have much more than you. A wonderful husband and am pregnant with my third beautiful child. But hey, feel free to feel sorry for me as a pathetic little virgin in your mom's basement 🙂

      May 27, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Mark 4:11-12
      2 Thessalonians 2:11
      Proverbs 16:4

      May 28, 2012 at 1:12 am |
    • TR6

      @just sayin:”You were plainly told that prayer changed a specific life by the life that was changed. Take it or leave it, you have chosen to discount or change anothers personal testimony because it does not agree with your preconceived prejudice and hatred.”

      And if someone said to you their life had been changed by Zeus after praying to him, you would choose to discount his testimony “because it does not agree with your preconceived prejudice and hatred.”

      May 28, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
  14. chosen2

    Sodom a sign of the last days. I am not condemning people by what they do; it is all God's perfect plan of redemption. His people just know the signs of his coming and give the warning. Those who do not believe the word of God or are condemng others this is what they are:Ye are of father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And this goes for today's Christians that hold the free will of man doctrine; teaching others a false salvation, trusting in what they are doing. For such false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    May 26, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Marcus

      You say things, but they have zero value.
      You are a fool.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • just sayin

      To those that are perishing the things of God seem foolish, marcus. God bless

      May 26, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Good post and thanks for the reminder Chosen2.

      Amen.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      "God works in mysterious ways" is THE biggest cop-out of all time. "You just don't understand" is worthy of a 5 year old.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ chosen2,

      It may well be truthful that today's ministries have fallen a.s.sunder and are nowadays teaching false doctrine all for ministerial benefits and but token privies to help the very poor and needy outside one's own homeland! I truly see no real goodnesses coming from my locaity of churches yet I do see where I live many churches of extreme size but little t.i.t.h.e.s for the cidy's poor and downtrodden folks!

      If one is to take literally and very seriously that the Kingdom of God is "inside" our bodies then each kingdomly body contains one God each for as long as the body remains alive and living and consuming otherly life all for the Kingdom of God which is inside! There is another verse of scripture that says, We labor together with God and God is our husbandry and we are God's bulding! To take such issues seriously and literally is no longer of any worthiness to all the people who have become lost and are going down the path of perdition and well, hell.

      People of today's time do no longer avail themselves to search the gospels for hard to fathom truths that are usaully of one verse or perhaps two verses. God how I hate this world's manmade kingdoom churches and their conivingness ways to give not the real place of Godly Kingdoms and what it really means regardiing the literal truth of the Kingdoms of the Gods, yes Gods plural! Our worldly ways have damned the lot of us all!

      May 26, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
  15. chosen2

    Sodom is a sign for the last days. we are living in the last days, believe the Gospel. Gospel = Good news of salvation in Christ for chosen sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15 This a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
    Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.

    May 26, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      1. Sodom and Gomorrah was a myth about inhospitality, which followed, (in Genesis 19), the story of the hospitality of Abraham to the strangers, in Genesis 18, as a counter-positional example, of it's opposite. "Se'xual orientation" is a 19th Century idea, and never crossed their minds. Sodom and Gomorrah is NOT about se'x. (Was it ok for Lot to offer his daughters to the mob ?).

      2. Fire and brimstone was the common creation theme/myth of that region, because of the Lime and Sulfur deposits on the Southern end of the Dead Sea, in the Jordan Valley.

      3. The fact that a well organized church community is presupposed in both the Timothy texts, means Paul could not have written them, (as all scholars agree). Paul was long dead when they were forged in his name. Would you have expected anyone to write "this is NOT a faithful .. bla bla ". Self affirmations are worthless evidence.

      4. Jesus said NOTHING about "saving sinners". THAT, (the salvation paradigm) was something Saul, (of Tarsus), grafted onto the growing cult. Have you never studied ancient history ? You do not practice Christianity. You practice Paulianity.

      May 26, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Sodom and Gomorrah and the other cities of the plains are mentioned as trading partners during the reign of Kedorlaomer, as evidenced by archaeological finds. Not hardly a myth then. When Lot first chose the area he looked to the plains that was the choice land, lush and well watered. Not the sulfuric depression it now is. (Consider Lots daughters in light of the passage about Abrahams son in Hebrews.)
      Salvation :
      Acts 4 : 12
      Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
      Luke19 : 9- 10
      JESUS said to him "Today 'salvation' has come to this house, because this man too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and 'save' what was lost"
      Not Paul but Christ. Christianity. Have YOU never studied that which you mock?

      May 26, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Lot offered his daughters to the mob so they would not sin against God. Hospitality theory was devised so that sinners of today and tomorrow won't know what sin is, hence, not knowing that they should care that they are sinning. Name of the game is to bash Jesus' truth from every avenue so sin can flourish throughout the world. Read the end of the Bible. Jesus (truth) wins.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Amen, Heaven Sent. You speak words of wisdom, but the sinners don't want to hear wisdom but only the folly of the flesh.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      ןן@ ɐq ʎʞɔnq,

      1. Sodom was a biblical "parable" not only about the inhospitable sodomites but is a parable regarding the sodomy wlls and wants of a city gone completely against Godliness and hence the words sodomy and sodomites, the perverters of illed actions of unrighteous sensualisms perceived as being abominable Acts and actiions! Your synopsis of the relatives regarding Sodom and thhe sodomites wanting to engage Lot's strangers in vile acts of sodomy are a known fact in many circles of faiths and believers.

      2. "Fire and brimestone" such as no prior times have forsaw are the atomic and nuclear bombs of today's timeline!

      3. "The fact that a well organized church community is presupposed in both the Timothy texts, means Paul could not have written them, (as all scholars agree). Paul was long dead when they were forged in his name. Would you have expected anyone to write "this is NOT a faithful .. bla bla ". Self affirmations are worthless evidence."

      3a. Show me your proof for such a claim and I might believe you, otherwise it is shear assumptions not worthy a second look see!

      4. "Jesus said NOTHING about "saving sinners". THAT, (the salvation paradigm) was something Saul, (of Tarsus), grafted onto the growing cult. Have you never studied ancient history ? You do not practice Christianity. You practice Paulianity."

      4a. 1Timothy 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief
      4b. While yes Timothy may well be the son of Paul;- whose words are the above verse then? I ask because you seem to be well adept in biblical teaching(s)..

      May 26, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      The fact that an historical site is referenced by a myth, (as Olympus was), proves NOTHING. The Fire and Brimstone myths were very common. Are you saying Zeus was true ?

      May 26, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      "Fire and brimestone" such as no prior times have forsaw are the atomic and nuclear bombs of today's..."

      Are you unable to speak proper English ?

      May 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky you make a few claims here that simply are not true.
      You state “First Sodom and Gomorrah was about inhospitality”
      Genesis 19
      5 and they called to Lot and said to him, “ Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.”
      2 Peter 2:6
      and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

      Jude 1:7
      just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
      You state “The fact that a well organized church community is presupposed in both the Timothy texts, means Paul could not have written them, (as all scholars agree). “

      The truth is most of Paul’s letters were not always hand written by him, as is noted even by himself. And the word Church in the scriptures does not mean a building, but the group of believers.

      1 Corinthians 16:21
      The greeting is in my own hand— Paul.

      Galatians 6:11
      See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.

      Colossians 4:18
      I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Remember my imprisonment. Grace be with you.

      2 Thessalonians 3:17
      I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand, and this is a distinguishing mark in every letter; this is the way I write.

      Philemon 1:19
      I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it ( not to mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well).

      You state “Jesus said NOTHING about "saving sinners".”

      7 “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
      8 “ If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
      10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Evangelical, what you write is true. I write on this blog to support other Christians, especially young Christians that are sitting on the fence of Jesus' spirit truth versus being bombarded by carnal babble. If a blinded sinner opens their eyes to Jesus' truth ... God Bless them.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      3a. Show me your proof for such a claim and I might believe you, otherwise it is shear assumptions not worthy a second look see!

      Clearly you have never studied the Bible. It's YOUR job to study accurate history. EVERY reputable scholar agree.
      Mark was written first with NO reference to "salvation". Paul was next, in which he introduced it, Luke even later. Timothy MUCH later. Why do atheists have to teach you people the Bible ?

      May 26, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • Jen

      Do not call me a sinner. I am agnostic and have never ever committed a sin.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Do not worry. The Bible is NOT about "sin". The garden myth, (Adam and Eve), is not about "sin" It's a very common Ancient myth about Chaos and Order, just as Tiamet Slays the Dragon of Chaos was. It was about attempting to "eat" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil. (Just as s'ex was known as "knowledge"). Has NOTHING to do with eating apples. It's about the "Encompassing of Opposites". The need to make choices. As long a humans live in the dimension of time, there is no escape. One MUST choose. Jeebus can't save anyone from that.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Leo, stop quoting the Babble to prove the Babble. When you get to high school, you will take Logic 101. In Logic 101 you will learn what "circular reasoning". Any reference in the Bible to prove the Bible is circular. It's worthless.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky, you claim to have studied the Bible, but you clearly study what others have to say about the bible.

      You state a falsehood of what the Bible teaches, so I show you what it teaches, and then you complain about using the Bible?

      Do you understand that Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament and then fulfilled them in the new. He is the Messiah, Saviour.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man. When he talked about salvation for the "lost" he was talking about sinners. Can you really be that dense?

      May 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ lןɐq ʎʞɔnq, "Why do atheists have to teach you people the Bible ?"

      maybe we want to learn of what you aspire to know? I do anyway, for I can't rightly speak for the rest of the mottly christians!

      May 26, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Wrong again boys. The term "son of man", and "son of god" were applied historically to many people. It was a common honorific., given to politicians, generals, and many others. It was NOT unique to Yeshua ben Josef.

      The "messiah" until well after the time of Jesus was a POLITICAL leader, only. Have you never read Acts ?
      "Lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel" ? This was one of the LAST things the Apostles said to him. It's how they understood him. And any text, which is written AFTER Paul, cannot be deemed as authentic with respect to "salvation". Only Mark, was written before. Why did the original version of Mark have NO resurrection ? It ended with the empty tomb. The fact is the development of the gospels took hundreds of years, and for many of those years, Christians had NO consciousness of themselves as separate from Judaism. It's why Paul and James had such HUGE fights, (as seen in Acts).

      May 26, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      And BTW, the fact that a "gospel" writer, (the term "gospel"..the "good news was coined by Paul), places those words in Yeshua's mouth does not prove he said them. All it proves is that's how they understood him. Many people are misquoted, and 150 PhD.scholars in the Jesus Seminar cannot agree on what he actually said.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky, Let make it clear Truth mixed with lies is simply deception. Parts of what you claim may be true, but the fact that the Old Testament Daniel 450 years before Jesus gave us the example of the Son of Man, and then Jesus used that same term is simply truth.

      Yes again the disciples asked Jesus in Matthew 24 what would be the sign of his coming at the end of the age, and you can read the rest.

      There a two pictures of Messiah the suffering servant Isaiah 53, and the second returning King who will judge the world at the end.

      The rest of your comments are simply bogus. Jesus a political leader??? Only Mark was written before????

      You have been gping to the Jesus seminars aren't you?

      May 26, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Leo

      The Jesus seminars are the biggest crock of lies ever.... and I typed my comment before I saw yours... In knew that was where you were getting your studies.

      Here the Bible http://www.biblegateway.com

      Here is the Concordance to understand the Hebrew and Greek http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm

      And here is the early church fathers http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

      May 26, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Leo,
      We did notice you have not taken on any ONE point, and disproven it.
      Saying "it's true because I said it's true" is worthless drivel.

      The suffering Servant was a product of the Babylonian Exile, written by Second Isaiah to comfort the people of THAT day. YOU take it as prophesy. In fact "prophesy" is NOT "fortune telling". Do you know what that word means ? Harry Potter is prophesy. So you know more than 150 PhD's. Alrighty then. Do you know where the idea of "Truth" came from ? It's a Greek Gnostic concept, (which proves John was a Gnostic), and that that was a very much later development of the cult, AFTER it came into contact with the Greeks.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky the term Gospel means good news and come from the Book of Isaiah 450 years before Jesus. These were prophesies of the messiah Jesus, that were later fulfilled by Jesus, see the annointed in 61:1 is the word for Christ!!

      Isaiah 52:7
      How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who announces peace And brings good news of happiness, Who announces salvation, And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”

      Isaiah 61:1
      The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners;

      May 26, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky Read Isaiah 53, it is clearly a prophesy of a man and not Israel as some claim.

      If you really want to learn the truth, go ahead and listen to the Jesus seminar fakes, but before you believe them check out what the links that I provided you can teacjh you then come to your own conclussion. Otherwise you really aren't studying at all.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Leo,
      I told you to stop proving the Babble by quoting the Babble. There were many "christs". There is no "THE" christ. The long development process in which Yeshua came to be seen as the "christ", and how that CHANGED from POLITICAL to spiritual, is one of the reasons it's all a pile of crap. The Jews were NOT looking for a spiritual Messiah, so anything they said could not refer to one.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      So any time anyone ever said the two words "good news" together, it referred to Jeebus. Give me a break.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Jen

      Love reading your posts bucky! It's really no contest – you are out debating everyone who opposes you. You are embarrassing them all!

      May 26, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Don't patronize me Leo. The BS of "if you really understood it, you would agree with ME", is so old and so tired, it makes me vomit.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Wrath of Crom

      Bucky continuously produces proof with works cited and research. Xtians continuously quote the bible as proof. What would hold up in a court of law.....

      May 26, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • Leo

      Bucky, you claim "Do you know where the idea of "Truth" came from ? It's a Greek Gnostic concept, (which proves John was a Gnostic), "

      Do you really think the concept of truth was started by the Gnostics?

      Yes it is a Greek word that was used by the gnostics since they wrote in greek, but the Hebrews understood truth and wrote about as well as probably all civilizations way before the gnostics.

      http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=truth&version1=49&searchtype=all&startnumber=26

      Here is a link for the word truth used throught the bible for 1500 years.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
    • Leo

      wrath, please show me a single citation that bucky has provided so that we could verify his claims. Just one will do....

      May 26, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
  16. A Serpent's Thought

    Nothingness is real! Nothingness keeps the stars and planets and moons and what have you apart and separated from each other! Nothingness also keeps atomic structures separate and apart from each other as well! Could Nothingness be God? After all, God cannot be seen nowadays and are not souls and the holy spirit considered as being void of material matter? Afterall, has not science declared their to be "dark" energy and "dark" matter? Where does matter truly begin and nothingness end?

    May 26, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • *frank*

      "Nothingness is real!"
      I can only speculate what the courtroom evidence exhibits for this contention might look like.........

      May 26, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      There is no such thing as "Nothingnes", as everyone who has studies Physics knows. It's a intellectual Philosophical "construct". In fact, "nothingness" is NOT observed in this universe. The Strong Nuclear Force keeps atoms together. There is no such thing as "nothingness".
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo&w=640&h=360]

      May 26, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq,

      Sorry qq but an hour long video would take me hours to download and watch it! Maybe you have 1 or 2 minute snipets?Your stating the the "strong force keeps atoms and atomic particles together but is there nothingness even within the workings of atoms that cannot be quantumtatively articulated nor explained outrightly? And then there is this supposed "vacuum" of outer space places! Is not the nothingness of outer space reaching ever iinwardly sorta like fingers reaching into the very depths of inner space places of atomic relativities?

      May 26, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      No, there is no "nothingness" in atoms, or in "outer space". Dark Energy and Dark Matter const'itute 99% of the universe, and we are unable to see it yet, but we know it's there from gravity distortions. (Watch the video). I can't help your downloading problem. Go to the library. Complex truths cannot be made simple for the simple minded. There is no such words/phrase as "quantumtatively articulated", it's BS, and meaningless. There is no "vacuum" in outer space. They know that for sure. When did you go to school ? in to 1950's ? All that "fingers" stuff is woo-woo. Show me the EVIDENCE.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • Evangelical

      You have GOT to be kidding, bucky ball. You are putting up a video of someone talking about "theories" of science and these "theories" have largely been disproven by the Bible.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      No YOU have got to be kidding. You statement proves you know nothing about what science is all about, or the bible is all about, or what either of them are saying. Tell me EXACTLY where the Bible disproves Quantum Mechanics.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      Do you know what the steps of the Scientific Method are ? Do you know waht a "proof" is. There is NO such thing as "proofs", except in Mathematics. No wondr the US is 32 in it's educational ranking.

      May 26, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
  17. A Serpent's Thought

    Am I trhe only one with a conscience? I found it just the other day in my thoughts. I have a good conscience with but a few devilish traits! And you?

    May 26, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      same here

      May 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
  18. Drew

    Who on earth cares what someone belonging to one of these WASPY, hypocritical "family organizations" has to say about anything?

    May 26, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • Evangelical

      I care.

      May 26, 2012 at 5:52 pm |
    • sam stone

      evangelicalism is the epitome of arrogance

      May 26, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
  19. Colin

    How the believer's mind works:

    Step 1 – adopt a god, based on how you were raised, be it a Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu god(s).

    Step 2 – give that god a personality that exactly mirrors your own hopes, dreams, likes, dislikes and prejudices.

    Step 3 – declare any person who disagrees with you "immoral" to the extent their views differ to those you have ascribed to your god.

    Step 4 – to the extent science and other human advancements demonstrate your beliefs to be wrong, pretend them away.

    May 26, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Colin,

      Still tryin and lyin with your conscience forsakedness I see. Keep on puttering around there Colin! I'm sure one day you will hit the nail squarely on the head some day! As for me, I keep pulling the nails out of my mindfield's brainyard! Be blessed Colin and may your angelic conscience be your guide and don't listen to your devilish conscience too often!!

      May 26, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Colin, if you want answers to these same questions asked years ago, I suggest you search the older articles to find them. If not, get some new material to bore us with.

      May 26, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Good summary, Colin. There are so many examples on this site.

      May 27, 2012 at 8:12 am |
  20. Evangelical

    A lot of people here don't understand that per.version is per.version regardless of whether it is between consenting adults or others. Per.version is never acceptable.

    May 26, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
    • Eric G

      Please define per.version.

      May 26, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • Eric G

      "crickets"

      May 26, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      "perversion" is what "other" people might do in bed, and that which I am too boring to have thought of. It's also the delusion that ALL of NATURE does not do it. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.ht

      May 26, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • pervert alert

      Ho mo se xuality is perversion.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • ןןɐq ʎʞɔnq

      The moon is made of green cheese.

      May 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.