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May 31st, 2012
05:17 AM ET
Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral onlineBy Richard Allen Greene and Dan Gilgoff, CNN First it was a Christian pastor in North Carolina who told his congregation on Mother's Day that the way "to get rid of all the lesbians and queers" was to put them behind an electric fence and wait for them to die out. That video went viral, fetching more than a million views on YouTube. On Sunday, Pastor Curtis Knapp of Kansas preached that the government should kill homosexuals, in another videotaped sermon that drew lots of online attention. "They won't, but they should," Knapp said, according to a recording of his sermon posted online. Since that sermon, another church video with harsh words for gays has caught fire online. This one shows a young boy singing an anti-gay song while the congregation cheers him on in what appears to be a church in Indiana. "I know the Bible’s right, somebody’s wrong,” the boy sings near the pulpit of a church. “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven." As the boy repeats the line “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven," congregants from the pews rise and cheer. The video, which was anonymously posted online and has received more than 300,000 views on YouTube, appears to show a service at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church in Greensburg, Indiana. Calls to the church this week went to voicemail, with an automatic message saying the mailbox is full. But a message posted on the church’s website on Wednesday appears to address the controversy, offering no apology for the video. “The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason. We believe and hope that every person can find true Bible salvation and the mercy and grace of God in their lives,” the statement says. “We are a strong advocate of the family unit according to the teachings and precepts found in the Holy Bible,” said the statement, which did not explicitly refer to the video or mention homosexuality. “We believe the Holy Bible is the Divinely-inspired Word of God and we will continue to uphold and preach that which is found in scripture.” The viral videos have drawn criticism from gay and lesbian groups and their allies. Charles Worley’s sermon at Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, North Carolina, sparked a protest that drew more than 1,500 people last weekend. In Kansas, Knapp's voicemail at the New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca was filled with messages saying "things you don't want your kids to hear," he told CNN affiliate KTKA. An official with the Kansas-Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists issued a statement to CNN on Thursday saying that Knapp’s church had left the Southern Baptist fold in 2010. “Obviously, he has taken a radical and unbiblical stand in regards to homosexuality,” said Tim Boyd, communications director for the convention. “We look at homosexuals as we look at all sinners,” his statement said. “God loves them. Christ died for them. The Gospel calls them to repentance and salvation. Therefore, we as Christ-followers should hate the sin and love the sinner.” But Knapp is not backing away from his comments. "We punish pedophilia. We punish incest. We punish polygamy and various things. It's only homosexuality that is lifted out as an exemption," he said. He cited the Biblical verse Leviticus 20:13: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act. They shall surely be put to death." But he said gay people had nothing to worry about from the government or from him. "I don't believe I should lay a finger against them," said Knapp, of New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca, Kansas. "My hope is for their salvation, not for their death." Preaching against homosexuality the same day, another pastor appeared to wrestle with how conservative Christians should respond to proposals that people should literally mete out biblical punishments. "What about this guy down in North Carolina said build a big prison, a big fence and put them all in there and let them die out?" Dennis Leatherman asked in a sermon at the Mountain Lake Independent Baptist Church in Maryland. "Listen, I don't know that fellow. As far as I can tell, he seems like a decent guy, but he is dead wrong on that. That is not the scriptural response," Leatherman said in his sermon "Homosexuality & the Bible," according to a cached version of the transcript posted online. The audio of the sermon does not appear on his church's website. In the sermon, he floats the idea of killing homosexuals, whom he refers to as sodomites, then backs away from it. "There is a danger of reacting in the flesh, of responding not in a scriptural, spiritual way, but in a fleshly way. Kill them all. Right? I will be very honest with you. My flesh kind of likes that idea," Leatherman said. "But it grieves the Holy Spirit. It violates Scripture. It is wrong," he added immediately. The Southern Baptist Convention distanced itself from Worley's remarks. The nation's largest Baptist group said Providence Road Baptist in Maiden is not affiliated with its 16 million-member denomination and condemned the comments. But the influential head of the giant movement's seminary does argue that homosexuality "is the most pressing moral question of our times." In a comment piece for the Belief Blog in the wake of Worley's sermon, R. Albert Mohler Jr. dismissed critics who say conservative Christians focus on homosexuality while ignoring other things the Bible prohibits. He contends that laws about keeping kosher, for example, do not apply to Christians, while commandments about homosexuality do. "When it comes to homosexuality, the Bible's teaching is consistent, pervasive, uniform and set within a larger context of law and Gospel," he wrote. "Christians who are seriously committed to the authority of the Bible have no choice but to affirm all that the Bible teaches, including its condemnation of homosexuality," he said. A member of Worley's 300-member church defended him in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper. "Of course he would never want that to be done," Stacey Pritchard said of the proposal to put homosexuals behind a fence and leave them there to die out. "But I agree with what the sermon was and what it was about." CNN Belief Blog co-editor Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report. soundoff (4,073 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 Next »
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The hateful talk of this pastor is reprehensible. So is the hateful speech of many of those commenting on his hatred.
Are we not allowed to hate hatred?
Intolerance of intolerance is not hate. What this pastor did was reprehensible and anyone supporting him is no better.
I for one hate those who hate those who hate hatred. No need to hate but you'd better take care of business with lunatics like this, ELECT LIBERALS.
Hahah the government should kill them. But they won't. Leviticus clearly says a man who lays with another man should surely be put to death. "But I don't think I should lay a finger on them. I'm not for their death but their salvation...." Dude is seriously twisted in the head. What a wicked, sad religion the fundamentalist Christian is.
Why is it wrong to believe that you shouldn't put your wiener in the dirty spot?
The dirty spot? Have you have seen what comes out of a va-gina?
Because who in the world are you or anyone else to tell me I can't screw a man in the bunghole?
If you had one, you might know.
Again, an ignorant tw@t who thinks that ALL gay people (and NO straight people!) like an@l $ex...
You're 4, correct?
Plenty of straight men put the "weiner" in their female partner's "dirty spot". And being gay isn't about putting parts in other parts. Two people of the same gender can and do feel the same feelings of attraction, romantic love and desire for commitment as straight couples. Much of the media's attention is focused on the flamboyant, "out and proud" types at the parades, but really that's just an extremely myopic view of who we are.
Basketball or fencing?
toMark1020,
To bad scripture doesn't advocate killing the stupid. Wait natural selection takes care of that. Go back to seminary. You are missing alot of history.
I was for killing everyone under 5' tall but I think I will add stupid people to the list as you suggest.
Regarding the protester with the green sign in the picture, did Jesus actually say anything about gay people specifically? I don't know of any Bible passage where he addresses the issue.
Never
A lot of things are generalized. I would go with Matthew 7:12, followed with a serving of Mark 11:25-26 and Ephesians 4:31-32
The reason all sane people must speak out against this type of hate speech is that religion based on hate must be eliminated throughout the world. There is no longer any hope for peace in Syria because the fighting has become sectarian and neither side can give in. Look at Ireland for centuries. Look at all the countries torn by sectarian differences under Islam. Look at the Sudan. We must not degenerate into the same sort of hateful sects. Any preacher who does not speak out against this type of hate is supporting it. There can not be 100 "One true" gods. Therefore, 99 out of 100 are wrong. Unless a religion admits the possibility of error, or at least tolerates those who do not believe the same way, it ceases to be religion and becomes a political movement and should be stripped of its tax-exempt status. We have freedom of speech, but my tax dollars should not be used to support those who speak against me. No more free fire protection, no more free police protection, no more un-metered parking on Sundays, etc. Act like loving and forgiving christians or admit you are in politics and pay your own way.
You mean. Therefore, most likely, 100/100 are wrong.
"Evil flourishes when good people do nothing."
At the risk of sounding hypocritical – "AMEN!"
Well said, thank you.
These people make it very easy to explain to my child why we don't go to church, "Because religion has become about hating other people, and hate is not what we believe in."
LOL... you are so right!
Bravo! 🙂
Elegant thinking! Thanks.
Exactly! We have been raising our daughter without any influence from religion and explained to her the reasons. She's 13 now and she just have to read the news with an open mind to see we were right.
Exactly what I say to my son. Well put.
God is not in the business of changing gay people to straight, ask the hundreds of children that have prayed to be normal for years. At least the ones those survived, and were not driven to suicide thought religion telling them that they need to change or are going to hell. Ever wonder why most gay people are not Christian, because the church has let them down by telling them the lie that God will change them. If God is capable of changing people, he isn’t doing it. So either it must not be wrong, or he is condemning people to hell before they are even born. I ask you, how many more gay people must God create before you realize that they are here for a reason?
What reason is that?
The reason is the same as for you and eveyone else.. Enjoy life and evolve. It's not God who put us on the planet it's evolution.
To freak out people who spend way too much time thinking about other people's personal relationships. Kind of an object lesson in minding your own business..... 🙂
What reason are you here for Robert? Oh right, you have no reason, loser.
These preachers feel they are doing the Lord's work. Nothing will deter them. In fact, the more the gay community protests, the more the preachers will fight back, because it's seen as an attack by evil.
Science makes sense!~
I don't understand how he can stand the cognitive dissonance that must go on in his head to say on one hand that gays should be killed (but he acknowledges that they won't be), and then on the other hand to say that he doesn't wish their deaths. But I guess the religious are quite adept at handling cognitive dissonance.
I thought the Pastor had a great idea. He's right if it wasn't for your parents you freaks wouldn't be here!
You realize that straight people have gay kids, right?
And gay parents have straight kids.
You are why abortions remain legal
You are a total morooon.
Why would protest silence anti-gay sermons. Why do we give those nuts media attention anyways. This person is of the idea that Gay is morally wrong, I don't agree with his views but that is his views. However he is going to fight for what he thinks is right, the Protesters actually fuel his resolve, no amount of logic or reason will change his mind, he is emotionally set on his cause. The more people who are against him, the bigger his cause. The more the media pays attention to him the more people will protest him.
For bigots like that the best approach is just to walk away.
Because, Todd, that's what the citizens in Nazi Germany did- just assumed that the hate spewed towards Jews, Gypsies, and Gays wasn't worthy of condemnation- it was just their belief... we all know how that turned out.
Wow !!! I knew religious people were a whole bunch of stupid, but this is incredible !!!
Generalizing all religious people as nuts is just as bad as generalizing all gay people into categories. In your view what about gay people who are religious? Some religions welcome gays.
"Some religions welcome gays" yippieeeee.. aaa i think i'll still pass.. lol
Where have we heard this before !! ADOLF HITLER
i don't understand what happiness a belief in waiting to die, or thinking that when you die things will be better what can that do to help you folks in the here and now. seriously the bible states when all man knows the world of god it's the end of time.........so why in the fracking world are you all spreading this stuff? seriously, how can you all be "lemmings running toward a cliff"? you all read your book and think you know what it means, how can you understand something written 2000 years ago without understanding the time it was written? your total lack of logic and evaluation ability is astounding. then you freaks use your "book of jesus love" to show hate and malious toward those not like you. i'm an atheist, i see things from a scienctific point of view. i don't see humans as anything special save for what we have achieved. we are a warm blooded mammal, that has live birth. we have extra brain tissue that mainly acts as memory storage, but in there somewhere we also have the ability to imagine and make what we imagine, real. i can imagine a sandwich and i can then go and create said sandwich. no other animal anywhere on earth can do that. if you want to talk from a religious stance, then answer this question, what is god's greatest gifts to humans?...........................give up? god gave humans the ability to forgive and love; just like he can. i say forgivness is his greatest gift to man because most animals show some level of what we understand as love, but how many animals have you seen forgive the other animal what it has done? none, only humans.
Goody for you, you have an opinion, just like everyone else. It doesnt really seem to be based on anything but your own opinion though.
as someone who studied the blatant contradictions of the bible,i realized that people,and no insult intended,who believe it become delusional and somewhat psychotic, seam to think and believe they understand the cosmos and its working,when really,we know nothing, so why attack others because they're not like you? really,its comical to watch us humans at play,may all of us be happy and free from suffering...
Why is it when people bring up "blatant" contradictions in the Bible they can never adequately defend that position. For instance they try to make Genesis 1 and 2 into two different stories when they are the same story. Hey guys the chapters wer added way after the bible was written.
Notice how tied together Christian and Islam are. One side demonizes something they must defile it. Throw acid on the face, poison little girls trying to get an education, honor kill a daughter. All in the name of religious beliefs and what they read in a book. Well Christians in this country are starting to get that extreme in the name of ____. The more one talks the more it spreads they are becoming oppressors of humanity with this speech just like we see in the middle east.
Exactly.
People who believe as this man does have got a worse problem than any gay or lesbian could ever have. Looking for a way, at anyone's expense including gay children, to get their name in the media and promote their hate. It is behind pathetic.
Beyond pathetic
These people realize on some level that they have already lost. The civilized world left them behind a long time ago. It must be frustrating
Christians have not lost, Christ has already won the battle. 'For me to live is Christ, to die is gain'. Christians are doing their moral duty to warn the wicked, as the watchman is instructed to do (Eze 33).
I think the wicked might include a preacher who advocates killing gays
mark: quoting a book to those who do not accept the authority of the book is only so effective as a debate technique. if it is just meant as preaching, go know yourself
The problem is that is your definition of wicked...your opinion. Prov 14:12: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Christians are not expressing their opinions on the wickedness of sodomy, but God's clear statement that it is an abomination.
Did he say that the government should round them up and kill them? Because that's what this mother ***er said!
Sam: Quoting a book that is the truth does not nulify the truth of it...even if others refuse to accept it as truth. Truth is yiour only hope. The choice to receive or reject truth rests on the individual...but in the day of judgment, each individual will be held accountable to the truth he/she has been exposed to.
Mark, what's true for you isn't true for everyone. Give it a rest, and stop condoning hatred while you are at it
"Christians are not expressing their opinions on the wickedness of sodomy, but God's clear statement that it is an abomination."
Sorry mark, christians are expressing the opinions of a bunch of ancient men who wrote the book and the opinions of a bunch of men who edited to fit their agenda. Nothing in that book was written by god.
I look forward to the day, perhaps in 20 to 30 years when we're looking back, and we say "Remember the crazy Christians? Always preaching hate and believing in parts of their book that was changed several times throughout history but they still thought it was the absolute truth? Yeah, those guys were nuts."
Drew: I am not stating my opinion, but God's position as outlined in his Word. That's our difference – you have no authority for your postion...only your opionion. Truth is not relative, but absolute. Jesus said in Jn 14:6, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh to the Father, but by me. Truth can only be found by coming to the Lord Jesus Christ.
You have no more authority than a Muslim or a Hindu does for their beliefs
Mark1020: God's opinion? How incredibly pompous.
"Sorry mark, christians are expressing the opinions of a bunch of ancient men who wrote the book and the opinions of a bunch of men who edited to fit their agenda. Nothing in that book was written by god."
Nope. 2Ti 3:16 states, All scripture is given by inspiration of God. Ps 12:6-7 states, the words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them O Lord, from this generation for ever.
The Bible is fully inspired and preserved. God's truth for all generations. Your rejection of truth does not nulify truth.
Get over yourself Mark. Canonization didn't even occur until centuries after Christ
"You have no more authority than a Muslim or a Hindu does for their beliefs"
A Muslim or Hindu will be held to the same standard – God's Word – as all mankind on the day of judgment. If they do not repent of their sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior, they will go to hell, just like an unrepentant sodomite.
And they would think you are going to hell for being a Christian, or at least to some lower rung on the ladder of reincarnation. You are all just guessing
"Nope. 2Ti 3:16 states, All scripture is given by inspiration of God. Ps 12:6-7 states, the words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them O Lord, from this generation for ever.
The Bible is fully inspired and preserved. God's truth for all generations. Your rejection of truth does not nulify truth."
YES! According to the MEN who wrote it. You think that the PEOPLE (you now, twisted, conniving "sinners") who wrote those words didnt have an agenda when writing it? What about the people who edited it after it was written, emperor Constantine being one?
Your proclamation of truth without proof does not equal truth, but speculation. To say something is fully inspired by god based on the words of man is laughable. To think your religion is the one true religion is ignorant.
"God's opinion? How incredibly pompous"
There is nothing pompous about myself. I am an unrighteous sinner who deserves to go to hell because of my sin. It is only by the grace of God and what his Son did on the cross that will save me. I am only stating what God has said in his word. It is not pompous to state truth.
"Get over yourself Mark. Canonization didn't even occur until centuries after Christ"
The Bible was not founded when the RCC 'canonized' it in the 4th century. Bible believers recognized his Word well before the RCC ever did.
Nope, the bible didn't exist. Early Christians read whichever texts they wanted, and even wrote their own texts! There is literally no historical evidence that the canon predates the council of Nicea, in which canonization occured
"And they would think you are going to hell for being a Christian, or at least to some lower rung on the ladder of reincarnation. You are all just guessing"
That does not make them right. There are not multiple versions of truth. Truth is not relative. I am not guessing as I have the very Words of God to base my beliefs upon. If God says something in his Word, then I believe it. It would behoove you to do the same.
Unfortunately Mark, the only evidence you can offer that the bible is the word of god is the bible itself. Tautology, much?
"Nope, the bible didn't exist. Early Christians read whichever texts they wanted, and even wrote their own texts! There is literally no historical evidence that the canon predates the council of Nicea, in which canonization occured"
My faith is not based on 'historical' evidence...and no one's faith should be. Heb 11:1: Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Also it is not true that there is no historical evidence. There are MSS that date well before the 4th century.
"Unfortunately Mark, the only evidence you can offer that the bible is the word of god is the bible itself. Tautology, much?"
First, mankind needs no further evidence.
Second, absolute truth is a tautology – because it can claim no higher authority. If it did, it would not be the ultimate authority. The better question for you is how could absolute truth not be a tautology?
There might be manuscripts of the texts that became the new testament separately, but the New Testament didn't exist as a whole until canonization
I never said there is absolute truth. In fact I'm inclined to believe there isn't
"A Muslim or Hindu will be held to the same standard – God's Word – as all mankind on the day of judgment"
Muslims or Hindus are not part of mankind? How about Buddhists? Deists?
And mark, the tautology I was refe rring to is believing that a book is true because it says it is
Mark wrote, " Quoting a book that is the truth does not nulify the truth of it...even if others refuse to accept it as truth. Truth is yiour only hope."
It is your opinion that your bible is the truth. An opinion that is not grounded in fact or evidence.
"YES! According to the MEN who wrote it. You think that the PEOPLE (you now, twisted, conniving "sinners") who wrote those words didnt have an agenda when writing it? What about the people who edited it after it was written, emperor Constantine being one?
Your proclamation of truth without proof does not equal truth, but speculation. To say something is fully inspired by god based on the words of man is laughable. To think your religion is the one true religion is ignorant."
2Pe 1:21 states, For the prophesy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Scripture clearly states that God used certain men with the help of the Holy Ghost to get his inspired words to mankind.
Emperor Constantine was not a Christian – at least not how the Bible defines one. And he did not edit the Bible that is used by Bible believers.
Christianity is true because the Bible says it is. It is not ignorant to receive and believe truth. It is ignorant to beleive that mankind cannot know truth or that there are multiple versions of truth. Those ideas come from fallible man. I am not spouting off speculations, but what is written in the Word. God has given us his truth so we can know him, know what he expects of us and receive his truth.
Your scoffing does not change that.
Every text is written with an agenda. If you aren't willing to read critically then you are just a sap
"There might be manuscripts of the texts that became the new testament separately, but the New Testament didn't exist as a whole until canonization"
Incorrect. The NT did not exist for the Roman Catholic Church until the 4th century. The beliefs of the RCC do not line up with the Bible. Bible believers (i.e. Biblical Christians) have never been part of the RCC and existed all the way back to the 1st century as predicted by Mt 28:19-20, evidenced by the book of Acts, and the expectation that faithful disciples would continue on (cf. 2Ti 2:2). True Christains do not get their truth, nor have they ever, from the RCC.
Hahahahaah so "true Christians" just happened to guess the "correct" texts, out of the hundreds that were available to them?
Drew: "I never said there is absolute truth. In fact I'm inclined to believe there isn't...And mark, the tautology I was refe rring to is believing that a book is true because it says it is"
The Bible (as the Word, as the book, as the person of the Lord Jesus Christ) claims to be absolute truth. That is what you are arguing against, whether you want to believe in absolute truth or not. Words are an extention of a person. The Bible is the extention of God. God is true, and hence his Word or Bible is absolutely true. Yes, this is a tautology, but that does not make it untrue. How else would absolute truth present itself?
Well for instance, it might present itself in a different book from the bible. The quran maybe, or the book of mormon. It is not any less likely. For the record though, I don't believe in absolute truth
"Hahahahaah so "true Christians" just happened to guess the "correct" texts, out of the hundreds that were available to them?"
Jn 10 Jesus says, My sheep hear my voice.
"Muslims or Hindus are not part of mankind? How about Buddhists? Deists?"
Never said that. They are all part of mankind. My point was that all mankind, including Muslims, etc. will be judged by the same book, the same truth. It is man's responsibility to recognize truth, receive it, and respond to it.
Have you ever read the Bible?
See, even you would feel stupid answering "yes" to taht question, so you try to obfuscate with scripture. Jesus was a Jew. He had no concept of the new testament or of Christianity
Mark: I have not read the bible. Have you read the sacred text of the religions you dismiss so cavalierly? Why should people accept your view when they have grown up in a culture that embraces another "truth"?
"I have not read the bible. Have you read the sacred text of the religions you dismiss so cavalierly?"
No I have not read very much. However, when one finds the truth and where it is located, error does not need to be continually searched through to validate it.
"See, even you would feel stupid answering "yes" to taht question, so you try to obfuscate with scripture. Jesus was a Jew. He had no concept of the new testament or of Christianity'
I do not understand your first point. Answering 'yes' to what question?
Regarding Jesus being a Jew, but having no concept of NT Christianity is incorrect. Jesus was the Jewish Messiah ushering in the new covenant. He preached, 'repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." In Mt 16:18, Jesus states that he will build his church. In Mt 26:28, Jesus says, "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Israel was looking for the new covenant as was foretold by the LORD through his prophet Jeremiah (Jer 31:31).
mark. in order for yeshua to have been the messiah, he would have #1 had to have been decended from David and Solomon on his father's line, and the rebuilding of the templ in his lifetime, and bring all jews to israel and usher in world peace. all of this is in accordance to bible passages. so if yeshua was the messiah, then he was decended from david? then mary wasn't a virgin at yeshua's conception? where is this temple? last i heard still hasn't been restored. and this world peace concept is a joke, all one has to do is read the news.
yeshua was not the messiah. he was one of MANY jewish messiah cults. his cult just happened to stick.
again, this goes back to christians cherry picking the bible passages they like, and ignoring the rest.
truth is subjective. and regardless of biblical beliefs and all that, this is a secular society with secular laws. anything regardling laws of the land cannot have the terms "god" or "jesus" or bible" in it. that automatically makes your argument invalid.
mark. in order for yeshua to have been the messiah, he would have #1 had to have been decended from David and Solomon on his father's line, and the rebuilding of the templ in his lifetime, and bring all jews to israel and usher in world peace. all of this is in accordance to bible passages. so if yeshua was the messiah, then he was decended from david? then mary wasn't a virgin at yeshua's conception? where is this temple? last i heard still hasn't been restored. and this world peace concept is a joke, all one has to do is read the news.
yeshua was not the messiah. he was one of MANY messiah claimants.
again, this goes back to christians cherry picking the bible passages they like, and ignoring the rest.
truth is subjective. and regardless of biblical beliefs and all that, this is a secular society with secular laws. anything regardling laws of the land cannot have the terms "god" or "jesus" or bible" in it. that automatically makes your argument invalid.
@Mark1020
And you referring to the bible as truth does not make it so.
Basically, you're saying it's true because YOU say so, based on the writings of those who CLAIM to be inspired by God and what they say is THEIR truth.
It makes no sense. I could say that the Koran is truth just because it says so. Now, which one of you is correct? Neither. Because books don't give you spiritual truth. Faith does. And your faith is different from others' faiths. None are wrong that are on a spiritual path, searching for a Higher Power. Their words and actions, however, can and often are wrong. Much like this self-appointed "man of God" who preaches hatred for others when Christ preached love.
And one more thing about you and your ilk. God frowns upon you hating others. And wishing death upon others IS hatred.
To wit: 1John 4:20 "If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen."
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
They both have a problem...sin.
Mark, you're trapped in a loop of circular logic in supporting your claims by quoting a book you believe to be God's simply because it claims itself to be. Are you really that gullible?? I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska I think you'll be interested in.