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May 31st, 2012
05:17 AM ET
Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral onlineBy Richard Allen Greene and Dan Gilgoff, CNN First it was a Christian pastor in North Carolina who told his congregation on Mother's Day that the way "to get rid of all the lesbians and queers" was to put them behind an electric fence and wait for them to die out. That video went viral, fetching more than a million views on YouTube. On Sunday, Pastor Curtis Knapp of Kansas preached that the government should kill homosexuals, in another videotaped sermon that drew lots of online attention. "They won't, but they should," Knapp said, according to a recording of his sermon posted online. Since that sermon, another church video with harsh words for gays has caught fire online. This one shows a young boy singing an anti-gay song while the congregation cheers him on in what appears to be a church in Indiana. "I know the Bible’s right, somebody’s wrong,” the boy sings near the pulpit of a church. “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven." As the boy repeats the line “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven," congregants from the pews rise and cheer. The video, which was anonymously posted online and has received more than 300,000 views on YouTube, appears to show a service at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church in Greensburg, Indiana. Calls to the church this week went to voicemail, with an automatic message saying the mailbox is full. But a message posted on the church’s website on Wednesday appears to address the controversy, offering no apology for the video. “The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason. We believe and hope that every person can find true Bible salvation and the mercy and grace of God in their lives,” the statement says. “We are a strong advocate of the family unit according to the teachings and precepts found in the Holy Bible,” said the statement, which did not explicitly refer to the video or mention homosexuality. “We believe the Holy Bible is the Divinely-inspired Word of God and we will continue to uphold and preach that which is found in scripture.” The viral videos have drawn criticism from gay and lesbian groups and their allies. Charles Worley’s sermon at Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, North Carolina, sparked a protest that drew more than 1,500 people last weekend. In Kansas, Knapp's voicemail at the New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca was filled with messages saying "things you don't want your kids to hear," he told CNN affiliate KTKA. An official with the Kansas-Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists issued a statement to CNN on Thursday saying that Knapp’s church had left the Southern Baptist fold in 2010. “Obviously, he has taken a radical and unbiblical stand in regards to homosexuality,” said Tim Boyd, communications director for the convention. “We look at homosexuals as we look at all sinners,” his statement said. “God loves them. Christ died for them. The Gospel calls them to repentance and salvation. Therefore, we as Christ-followers should hate the sin and love the sinner.” But Knapp is not backing away from his comments. "We punish pedophilia. We punish incest. We punish polygamy and various things. It's only homosexuality that is lifted out as an exemption," he said. He cited the Biblical verse Leviticus 20:13: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act. They shall surely be put to death." But he said gay people had nothing to worry about from the government or from him. "I don't believe I should lay a finger against them," said Knapp, of New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca, Kansas. "My hope is for their salvation, not for their death." Preaching against homosexuality the same day, another pastor appeared to wrestle with how conservative Christians should respond to proposals that people should literally mete out biblical punishments. "What about this guy down in North Carolina said build a big prison, a big fence and put them all in there and let them die out?" Dennis Leatherman asked in a sermon at the Mountain Lake Independent Baptist Church in Maryland. "Listen, I don't know that fellow. As far as I can tell, he seems like a decent guy, but he is dead wrong on that. That is not the scriptural response," Leatherman said in his sermon "Homosexuality & the Bible," according to a cached version of the transcript posted online. The audio of the sermon does not appear on his church's website. In the sermon, he floats the idea of killing homosexuals, whom he refers to as sodomites, then backs away from it. "There is a danger of reacting in the flesh, of responding not in a scriptural, spiritual way, but in a fleshly way. Kill them all. Right? I will be very honest with you. My flesh kind of likes that idea," Leatherman said. "But it grieves the Holy Spirit. It violates Scripture. It is wrong," he added immediately. The Southern Baptist Convention distanced itself from Worley's remarks. The nation's largest Baptist group said Providence Road Baptist in Maiden is not affiliated with its 16 million-member denomination and condemned the comments. But the influential head of the giant movement's seminary does argue that homosexuality "is the most pressing moral question of our times." In a comment piece for the Belief Blog in the wake of Worley's sermon, R. Albert Mohler Jr. dismissed critics who say conservative Christians focus on homosexuality while ignoring other things the Bible prohibits. He contends that laws about keeping kosher, for example, do not apply to Christians, while commandments about homosexuality do. "When it comes to homosexuality, the Bible's teaching is consistent, pervasive, uniform and set within a larger context of law and Gospel," he wrote. "Christians who are seriously committed to the authority of the Bible have no choice but to affirm all that the Bible teaches, including its condemnation of homosexuality," he said. A member of Worley's 300-member church defended him in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper. "Of course he would never want that to be done," Stacey Pritchard said of the proposal to put homosexuals behind a fence and leave them there to die out. "But I agree with what the sermon was and what it was about." CNN Belief Blog co-editor Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report. soundoff (4,073 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 Next »
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[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJTF_ZnMGmA&w=420&h=315%5D
This is one of the ONLY churches I will attend. It speaks of scripture of one-man & one-woman. The common belief of "Christians." After all, it is "Christians" that give religion a bad reputation. I for one canNOT follow organized religion at all. Too much hate, bigotry, greed etc involved. I would go here though.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJTF_ZnMGmA&w=420&h=315%5D
I have an idea.. lets make every sin as defined by the bible as const.itutionally illegal.. lets see how many good christians will support it (none to about 0.1%, probably). My guess is that the first ones to oppose it would be the Newts, Ricks and Michelles of the country. Hypocrites!
So true. Wat-ch the youtu-be video I posted.
Yes, very true. There are very few REAL Christians or non-sinners. You will end up with a bunch of individuals who speak openly now, but will then be VERY quite after the laws are past and executions are being cared out so not to draw attention to them selves and THEIR sins. It really comes down to, worry about your self and your salvation and help others as best you can. It is not up to YOU to save ME! Go find another mission of feeding the hungry and eliminating hate by teaching acceptance, understanding, and compassion. THAT would be a honorable and truly blessing purpose.
1Ki 14:24, 1Ki 15:12, 1Ki 22:46 & 2Ki 23:7 Sometimes they condemned *it. Sometimes they made money off *it.
There is no basis for any church to make gay folks a "moral issue" at all. But, so many LOVE to point to the imagined flaws in others instread of looking inside themselves.
Being gay is the one "sin" that these people KNOW they can never commit, since, in their hearts, the know it's impossible to choose it. And yet they illogically claim that others magically can.
How sad.
TC, you're another one living a lie of satan, refusing to live Jesus' truth. Face it. It's easy to live and tell lies. It takes courage to live Jesus' truth.
@HeavenSent – who are you to cast the first stone? are you free of sin? do you live a perfect Christian life? REALLY? If so, why do you judge when you were clearly told not to. I will not get in a right or wrong match but challenge you to the rules you are preaching about. You judge and call others liars but are you not to a liar and a sinner? You are again judging someone else and calling them down for their belief. So, your belief is completely right and others are completely wrong? Did God assign you as the judge, if he did, I did not see it in the bible anywhere.
Worry about your own sins and let others worry about theirs. God will judge them for who they are. All sins can be forgiven, but it is not up to YOU to call them forth to do so.
This subject is out dated as is the topic. The past has not worked for the best of man kind nor has religion. Religion has caused more death then any other subject in history and was created by men to control the actions of other men. While I know most won't agree (and I really don't care – as you are free to feel as you do and I respect that), I to have a right and a need to speak up here. I see a lot of reply's about hate and I don't understand it. Why do you hate someone you don't know because they don't live the way you do? See, this is control. You THINK you have a right to make others live the way you do and if they don't you hate them. Well, I do guess that is your right as well. I don't hate anyone because of the way they live unless they hurt those around them, or force others to believe they way they do.
I do not believe in religion. I think that all religions have it right in some way, but they are all wrong in others. Me, I believe in God. Talk to him when I need to or feel like it (although, he has yet to talk back). When I need guidance, I seem to get it in one way or another. I try to accept and care as much as I can. I try not to hate and really try to control my judgement of others. While I am not always successful, I am always trying to be better little-by-little. Instead of trying to prey for something or someone to change (because it is up to them to want to change – but they may feel they have nothing that needs changing), try to be caring, loving, understanding, and accepting; then maybe they won't feel the need to rub it in your face.
Be who you want to be; be who you need to be; but don't be what others demand you to be. Things come back around in life. Hate breeds more hate, which eventually leads to violence against the innocent. Recently teenagers attacked a stranger and killed him out of hate, why? His skin was darker then theirs... Did this make him any less of a human? What if they attacked and killed a gay man or woman only to find out that person was not gay at all?!
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uBxbFGBPBQ
love is never a sin
praying away the g.ay leads to suicide,... 100% of the people who lived there life praying away the ga.y (who is dead) has died by suicide.
you cannot fight who you are with out killing who you are,... its a pointless war, this is who you are,... you are perfect the way you are, Gaia mad you how you were, are, and going to be
celebrate life don't mourn it.
Abe, there is more to "praying away the gay" than you think. Learning about the many sins in life that blind a person is a good start. Learning that living a lie (lying is a sin) to lead your life is exhausting and blinding. Step out of the lie and learn Jesus' truth about how to be the best that He wants all of us to be,
you mean like living your life hating your family and killing those who worship other gods dude Yahweh is a lair he will doing anything to rule all worlds beware his crocodile tears,.. he is the god of Hatred and deception
this tyrant has you weighing your vary existence as a sin there is no way to win against him only obey its all about spreading his dominion and forcing you to slavery he says he gave you free choice because he didn't give you anything it would fit his personality better to make you obedient from the start hes lying all this tyrant created was a lie and you bought it hook and line
Abe, you have eyes that do not see, nor, ears that hear His truth. Meaning, get off your lazy duff, pick up the letter (Bible) He wrote all of us how to be the best that He wants us to be. Other than that ... keep believing other liars that also haven't the foggiest clue to what Jesus teaches.
"Meaning, get off your lazy duff, pick up the letter (Bible) He wrote all of us how to be the best that He wants us to be. Other than that ... keep believing other liars that also haven't the foggiest clue to what Jesus teaches."
Don't bother following the advice of this bitter judgmental person they read the bible with prejudice and bigotry eyes that don't hear the REAL truths of today. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured.
well once again I'm a better study of the bible then you
Christ hates family fact
luke 14;26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
you cant beat me yo! i know god better then any of you I'm Samyaza,.. well not necessarily more like a Integrated Data Enti.ty (IDE) of once was Samyaza,... dude i found a way out of prison the reconstructed tower of babel known as the internet
"HeavenSent – Abe, you have eyes that do not see, nor, ears that hear His truth. Meaning, get off your lazy duff, pick up the letter (Bible)"
No, You are a bit confused. God made gay folks GAY. It's not a behavior, it's an innate trait that cannot be chosen or changed. Praying to have God change his will is never successful, and only results in pain.
Gay people can choose how we live, however, and the majority of us make all of the same lifestyle choices that everyone else does, including the religioun we might select, the value we place on family, our work, or hobbies, and our political beliefs.
Pretending that the facts are otherwise is simply dishonest, and irrational.
Why is it that people who were not created as a gay person pretend that they know more than those of us that are? It's completely illogical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duPJqfKiA78
TC, you weren't born again. That's a cop out gay folks are claiming today so you don't have to do anything about living your life that stemmed from a lie. Learn, comprehend and apply Jesus' truth to your life and you will see where your lie started.
But, as usual, the liars of this world want a quick fix as they sit on their duffs waiting for someone to do it for them.
"TC, you weren't born again. That's a cop out gay folks are claiming today so you don't have to do anything about living your life that stemmed from a lie. Learn, comprehend and apply Jesus' truth to your life and you will see where your lie started.
But, as usual, the liars of this world want a quick fix as they sit on their duffs waiting for someone to do it for them."
The experts have shown that Christians can't "cure" gays because part of it is biological. The only one lying here is you because your nothing but a prejudice bigot. Keep the lies coming proving you can't even follow your own rule book. LMAO!
The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Truth is YeahRight, your mental health associations are backing up you liars because they know you to be blinded by the sins of sloth and lying and they are too lazy to get you proper care because they know you'd lie when telling them you'd pay your tab. You refuse to live a life of truth (difficult) because it's easier to live a life of lies. Go figure ...
it amazes me out of every one in the room Christians trust the only guy saying "i tell the truth every one else is a lair"
"Truth is YeahRight, your mental health associations are backing up you liars because they know you to be blinded by the sins of sloth and lying and they are too lazy to get you proper care because they know you'd lie when telling them you'd pay your tab."
Lying is a sin and you can't even keep one of the Ten Commandments. LMAO Sorry we are not buying what you're trying to sell. You're trying to say the hundreds of thousands of experts that disagree with you are liars. LMAO! The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Oh, look, HS is showing everyone what hypocrites are.
@Russ – I know this point has been battered around for centuries – My point above is that the so called "Christian" calling for the Death of h.o.m.o.s.e.x.u.a.l.s is quoting from Leviticus while conveniently ignoring the rest of the book;. He is the fool and my disagreement is with HIM not with you. however your point about "those rules don't count" flies in the face of the direct quotes from Jesus in the gospels.
Matthew 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them; For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Luke 16:17 – “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.”
John7:19 – “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law”
Revelations 22: 18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Personally I don't think ANY of those laws apply – and for that I would point to
Romans 10:4 "For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God."
Galatians 3:23-25 "Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. "
Ephesians 2:15 "by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace"
The use of Leviticus to justify an anti-h.o.m.o.s.e.x.u.a.l agenda cannot be reconciled with either interpretation; Either all of the Acharei rules were thrown out or none of them were.
sorry; i must have hit the wrong reply button – this SHOULD have been tagged as a reply to a thread further down the page where i pointed out that the "Pastor" Knapp had shaved and was wearing a shirt made of a blended fabric – both also prohibited in Leviticus.
Oh, but didn't those pastors get everyone's attention. Lying is a sin. If you went onto the pastor's church site and viewed the many sermons he has listed, I'm sure he has many on sinning sinners.
Thank you fundies, for continuing to share your beliefs and feelings. They are the best advertisement for atheism we could hope to have.
KenPP, the posts that we read from atheists remind Christians of why Moe Howard (3 stooges) kept repeating "tried to think, but, nothing worked when dealing with fools. Woo-woo.
Ho-mos-exuals are a small percentage of the population, but they have a loud voice. It's time for Christians to speak up with an even louder voice.
"Ho-mos-exuals are a small percentage of the population, but they have a loud voice."
It's not just the gays that are talking in a loud voice it's the experts and straights that now understand the truth about this minority group. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
All you are doing is fueling the hatred and bigotry which is trickling down into the issue of bullying in our schools. Stop the hate, stop the lies and grow up.
You are right – I hate ho-mos-exuality. But I pray for ho-mos-exuals.
Prayer does not change one's orientation. I know that for a fact.
"You are right – I hate ho-mos-exuality. But I pray for ho-mos-exuals."
There are thousands of gay churches and gay clergy and others that now state being gay as we know and understand it today is not a sin. There are hundreds of thousands of experts that have stated being gay is normal, it's NOT a choice, it's NOT a mental illness and it can't be voluntarily changed. Your hate is unfounded and based on lies.
tb63,
It's not orientation that's the sin. It is behavior that the sin. We pray that they forsake their wicked ways.
Why should I spend my life being miserable for something you believe? Not gonna happen.
tb63,
If you want to burn in hell for eternity, that's your choice. But Christians are not going to let you pull our country down into the gutter.
"It's not orientation that's the sin. It is behavior that the sin."
So it's okay to be gay, just don't act on it. Thanks a lot, God.
"If you want to burn in hell for eternity, that's your choice. But Christians are not going to let you pull our country down into the gutte"
Being gay as we know and understand it today is not condemned in your bible. Plus the greatest sin you are committing is assuming you know what is in their heart and their relationship with their god. You are such a hypocrite and nothing like your Christ.
I don't care what you think of me, YeahRight. You are nothing but a bitter, depraved individual. I hope you see the light before it is too late.
tb63,
Pay no attention to folks who judge and condemn. If you are a nonbeliever salvation is between you and God. If you are a believer sin is between you and God.
"If you want to burn in hell for eternity, that's your choice."
And your proof that I'll burn in hell for eternity is what, exactly?
No living person has any proof whatsoever concerning what happens to us after we die. What you believe does not make it so.
You're right, Robert. There's little point in this. It is entertaining though.
YeahRight, those societies know where their bread is buttered. Instead of them shoving the problem of lying under the rug, they need to get off their duffs, come out of their offices and work in the field of helping chronic liars. I know, too much, to ask for that they do something for a living instead of being bought off by the gay lobbyists.
"I don't care what you think of me, YeahRight. You are nothing but a bitter, depraved individual. I hope you see the light before it is too late."
You have to tell yourself that so you can feel justified in your unfounded hatred and bigotry. Your opinions are based on any real facts but just homophobic fear. By the way you just posted more lies so all you are doing is showing you can't even follow one of the basic ten commandments. LMAO!
"Your opinions are based on any real facts but just homophobic fear."
Crap that was suppose to read – Your opinions aren't based on any real facts but just homophobic fear.
"those societies know where their bread is buttered. Instead of them shoving the problem of lying under the rug, they need to get off their duffs, come out of their offices and work in the field of helping chronic liars. I know, too much, to ask for that they do something for a living instead of being bought off by the gay lobbyists."
The only liars are the homophobic Christians like you whose opinions aren't based on the REAL facts of today. It's so funny to watch you post lies after lies proving you can't even follow your own bible while condemning others. What a hypocrite.
YeahRight, not only are you used to lying, you're used to pointing the blame finger on others so you don't have to get off your duff and do some work on turning your lying self around and becoming truthful.
Oh, my. Too much to ask for from a lazy, sit on his duff muffin.
"YeahRight, not only are you used to lying, you're used to pointing the blame finger on others so you don't have to get off your duff and do some work on turning your lying self around and becoming truthful.
Oh, my. Too much to ask for from a lazy, sit on his duff muffin."
That's why I do know the REAL truth. Keep the lies coming the only person you are condemning is yourself.
Lets see. Gay folks are screaming for equal protection under the law. For the ability to form families. To be treated as others are. To live.
Some christians are screaming for their deaths, or imprisonment.
Which side do you think has God's ear?
YeahRight, the truth is, you're a liar that's lazy to not want to stop lying. Boy, those sins of lying and sloth sure does blinds you. Free will to stay at the adequate level. Now, run off and turn your science station on so you can absorb yourself into the science world, never having to lift your finger to do something about changing satan's lies for Jesus' truth.
"YeahRight, the truth is, you're a liar that's lazy to not want to stop lying. Boy, those sins of lying and sloth sure does blinds you. Free will to stay at the adequate level. Now, run off and turn your science station on so you can absorb yourself into the science world, never having to lift your finger to do something about changing satan's lies for Jesus' truth."
Keep showing what you're clueless on this subject. Nowhere in your bible did your "jesus" condemn the loving long term relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. YeahRight, the truth is, you're a liar that's lazy to not want to stop lying. Boy, those sins of lying and sloth sure does blinds you. Free will to stay at the adequate level. Now, run off and turn your science station on so you can absorb yourself into the science world, never having to lift your finger to do something about changing satan's lies for Jesus' truth.
"YeahRight, the truth is, you're a liar that's lazy to not want to stop lying. Boy, those sins of lying and sloth sure does blinds you. Free will to stay at the adequate level. Now, run off and turn your science station on so you can absorb yourself into the science world, never having to lift your finger to do something about changing satan's lies for Jesus' truth."
Keep showing what you're clueless on this subject. Nowhere in your bible did your "jesus" condemn the loving long term relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Sorry for the double post it went crazy the above post is the correct one.
YeahRight, there are many scriptures in the Bible concerning Jesus' saying that the gay lifestyle is an abomination. Said scriptures are being twisted and contorted by the gay community so His truth is being defiled. Go twist and contort Jude 7 so you can continuing being blinded by satan's lies as you reject Jesus' truth.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Amen.
"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Fornicator means sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married to each other. DUH! It's about adultery. Keep showing why you are nothing more than a prejudice bigot who is clueless on this subject. LMAO!
"there are many scriptures in the Bible concerning Jesus' saying that the gay lifestyle is an abomination"
No what was an abomination by Paul was using sex to worship pagan god, your Christ did not say that.
when the earnest feeling of love becomes sin, the tyrant god will fall.
Don't try to sugar coat it. Love is not a sin. Physical hom.os.exual acts are sinful.
"Physical hom.os.exual acts are sinful."
LMAO – straights have the same kind of sex. So in your mind having a loving respectful long term relationship with the person you love and are committed too while raising a wonderful children is a sin. LMAO!
I'm not sugar coating anything your denying people love,
dude thy tyrant did the same thing yo me and my people they said we cant love humans,... so i lead a rebellion
these people love each other but That God has to have all the love to himself jealousy is a horrible curse.
ps
your god didn't create hom.o.se.xuality Gaia did witch is why your god is a liar. always taking credit for others work,... so childish, yo Yahweh my dude you didn't create this world get over it
keep on talking,.. your gods death is immanent.
Saying it does not make it so.
Jesus' truth is eternal.
Amen.
Christians need to pray for ho-mos-exuals that God helps to turn them from their depravity. Calling for ho-mos-exuals to be killed, while Biblical, goes against Christ's sacrifice. God will punish ho-mos-exuals who don't repent.
Why? Why does god need to punish gays?
Christians might be better served looking to Christ for an example and examining their own lives for what their faith calls sin, rather than wasting time chasing the sin of others, even if only in prayer.
"Christians need to pray for ho-mos-exuals that God helps to turn them from their depravity. "
Being gay is NOT a depravity, there are hundreds of thousands of experts that have shown that being gay is NOT a choice, it's NOT a mental illness and it CAN'T be voluntarily changed. he American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
What in your mind makes being gay immoral since the experts have proven gay people are totally normal human beings?
@YeahRight
Hom.os.exuality is a moral depravity. Those organizations you cite are not moral authorities.
You really think many of us haven't tried that? Trust me, it doesn't work.
I did not want to be gay. Many years of struggle made me eventually realize that I – nor anything – can change the fact that I am in fact a ho-mo-se-xual.
The old saying that the truth will set you free is absolutely correct. Accepting the truth about my orientation was the first step toward living a fulfilling life of happiness. I only wish I hadn't waited so long.
"Hom.os.exuality is a moral depravity. Those organizations you cite are not moral authorities."
LMAO Your god certainly isn't a moral authority, since it doesn't exist and the book you are going by was written thousands of years ago. You have no valid reason for spreading lies that gays are depraved. Duh!
ummmhhh, first, for lying to themselves, as they lie to others. They need to work on the trauma that spun their world. Not, shove it under the rug and pretend that they are happy and content. Mask of sanity at it's ultimate.
It is quite obvious that bigots like gibb would not take any organization other than christian church as a moral authority. It is a waste of time to talk to a hypocrite like him.
or would you prove otherwise and name a couple of other organizations as moral authorities
Well if you're not going to believe someone that has lived it, let's just hope there is reincarnation and you come back gay.
"for lying to themselves, as they lie to others. They need to work on the trauma that spun their world. Not, shove it under the rug and pretend that they are happy and content. Mask of sanity at it's ultimate."
Dude stop using other peoples handles. Second, you have no clue about this subject since what you posted is a complete lie.
Amen, brother.
@HS.. here is an advice.. people who did not get burned do not understand what getting burned feels like. So, unless you were a gay or at least have a very very close family member who is gay, you do NOT have a right to talk anything about how a person becomes gay or what they feel about being gay.
So, here is a second piece of advice for you.. if you do not know about something, shut up
"Amen, brother."
Amen to bigotry and hatred that isn't found on REAL facts. Grow up.
tb63, we have one shot to live in flesh form. This is it. Reincarnation is a lie so you don't follow Jesus' truth. There is only eternity with Jesus to look forward too after our flesh body dies, goes back to dust, and our spirit goes back to God, who created ALL.
Lol, you posted "@HS.. here is an advice.. people who did not get burned do not understand what getting burned feels like. So, unless you were a gay or at least have a very very close family member who is gay, you do NOT have a right to talk anything about how a person becomes gay or what they feel about being gay.
So, here is a second piece of advice for you.. if you do not know about something, shut up"
Answer: I have many friends that are gay. I have also been asking gays for more years than you have sucked up oxygen ... why they prefer their same s3x instead of the opposite s3x to partner with. As many folks I have asked this question is as many answers I have received, All have one theme in common, lying to themselves to cover up a childhood trauma/incidence that they never faced at the time of occurrence ... then continuing on with lying to live their lives. I also know many liars and thieves too. Should I have to shut up about them because you can't handle the truth? Get over yourself.
YeahRight, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in the face. You live a lie and are comfortable with lying.
"Reincarnation is a lie so you don't follow Jesus' truth."
I don't believe in reincarnation one way or the other. I have no idea what really happens after we die, and you have to admit to yourself that you don't either. No living person does.
I do wish that judgmental ho-mo-phobes would have to come back gay and get a taste of their own medicine.
Great way to go through life, heavensent. Just call everyone a liar so you don't have to confront yourself that you may possibly be wrong.
"YeahRight, you wouldn't know truth if it hit you in the face. You live a lie and are comfortable with lying."
I have been quoting the experts and the one who is in denial about lying is you. How's that log in your eye? You can't even follow one of the basic ten commandments so you're a hypocrite.
Heavensent is the liar. He doesn't have any friends, let alone gay friends. Who would be friends with someone that tells them they are going to hell? BS.
My husband's brother knew he was gay at age 3. No childhood traumas, raised by Catholic parents, both his brothers are straight. It's ridiculous when uneducated people try to guess why people are gay. They are gay because they are born that way. Period.
tb63, talk about myopic! What makes you think gay folks are the only sinners in the world? We are all sinners that resides in the flesh on this earth. Some of us learn Jesus' truth and others deny themselves the learning experience. Everyone in human form has their cross to bare. Meaning, they have issues that spin them around and keep them blinded by sin. Life is a test from God to love and follow Him, learning His truth about life and the hereafter, or, love and follow satan (lies). Jesus' truth will set you free to be the best that He wants all of us to be. Satan's lies chain (slavery) and crush you to not be the best that Jesus wants you to be.
Thanks for pointing that out, Jen. There was no trauma in my childhood either.
"What makes you think gay folks are the only sinners in the world?"
Where did I say that?
Jen (cough Tommie Tom), who's the liar (LOL)! Did you ever meet children that blame themselves for their parents' divorcing? If you have, that same theory applies to why someone becomes gay. It's a lie that they believe at a young and impressionable age ... that continues as they chronological age ...
"If you have, that same theory applies to why someone becomes gay. It's a lie that they believe at a young and impressionable age ... that continues as they chronological age ..."
More lies since it's part biological you can't "convert" someone into being gay. LMAO! The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
If you immediately start fantasazing about s ex acts you don't like the moment you hear about gay folks, then the depravity is yours and yours alone.
Why do you do that? It's creepy.
YeahRight, those associations are lying to you for a reason. Figure it out.
"YeahRight, those associations are lying to you for a reason. Figure it out."
You're the one lying for a reason so you don't have to face the fact that your nothing more than a prejudice bigot. The experts around the world have shown that being gay is NOT a choice, it's NOT a mental illness, and it CAN"T be voluntarily changed. What's hysterical is you have nothing to refute it except to make up lies about the hundreds of thousands of experts that have proven the Christian community wrong. By the way you're not the real HS. Duh!
I like the post by @Lol below and want to pose his question to you all christians as well..
"lets talk about your homophobia.. can you tell me in a few sentences (without saying "its in the bible" or "god said it") why you think being gay is wrong? or how it effects you what two men do in their bedroom? or what they rob from you by becoming a family (according to state's definition)."
comments?
It is wrong because it goes against God. You want to take the Bible out of it, but the Bible IS what it is all about to most Christians. If you don't understand that, then you are in the wrong place being on a belief blog.
Because folks are convincing themselves that they are someone other than being who they truly are. It's a slap in the face to them, as well as anyone else they meet. It's called lying at the ultimate price of loosing who they are.
Snow and Lol,
No, if you exclude God, I can’t tell you why it is wrong. Although, if you didn’t believe in God in the first place I wouldn’t tell you what you were doing was wrong. I would just tell you about Jesus. With or without God it doesn’t effect me what people do in their bedrooms and they rob nothing from me by becoming a family.
"It is wrong because it goes against God."
Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving long term relationship of a gay couple. What your god does condemn is male prostitution, idolatry, worshiping a pagan god using sex and rape.
Bible also condemns adultery and divorce in the same book, with similar language and with same punishments.. why do you want to make such a big deal out of gay issue and not about the other two? why const.itutional amendments for gay issue only? coz it effects all the good christians? aka Hypocrisy? bigot-ism? narrow minded?
By the way Snow, loose the hom-o-phobia mantra. It's old, boring and untrue.
"By the way Snow, loose the hom-o-phobia mantra. It's old, boring and untrue."
Your posts prove otherwise.
@HS.. "It's called lying at the ultimate price of loosing who they are"..
yet you still do not say how it effects YOU.. and why you do not take to the streets demonstrating against divorce or adultery the way you do about gays.. see there is only one conclusion for that, which you obviously know.
Snow, you posted "Bible also condemns adultery and divorce in the same book, with similar language and with same punishments.. why do you want to make such a big deal out of gay issue and not about the other two? why const.itutional amendments for gay issue only? coz it effects all the good christians? aka Hypocrisy? bigot-ism? narrow minded?"
Answer: What does adultery, divorce, and hom-o-s$xuals have in common? They are all liars.
It affects me by bring God's disfavor on America. It affects me because I will have to answer to God as to why I and other Christians permitted ho-mos-exuality to flourish. God is a demanding God.
Snow,
You are correct it is hypocritical. Sin is sin.
Why the amendment for the gay issue only? I can’t speak for all Christians but hearing some speak I have some ideas as to the origin of this idea. Christians read the bible and see how God related to Israel as a nation. When the people of the nation obeyed God he blessed them. When they turned away from God and sinned against him he punished them. So, they see it as a sin that some states are making legal and to avoid the punishment and receive the blessings of God as a nation, they want to make it illegal.
"What does adultery, divorce, and hom-o-s$xuals have in common? They are all liar"
Now that is a lie and you just broke one of the Ten Commandments, what a hypocrite.
"It affects me by bring God's disfavor on America. It affects me because I will have to answer to God as to why I and other Christians permitted ho-mos-exuality to flourish. God is a demanding God."
LMAO – The Christians did a disfavor when they came to America murdered the Native American and stole their land. The Christians did a disfavor when they kidnapped African Americans and sold them into slavery. The Christians did a disfavor when they denied both African Americans and Women their equal civil rights. The Christians did a disfavor when they became greedy full of gluttony in this country. What a hypocrite you are, grow up.
Snow, you posted "yet you still do not say how it effects YOU.. and why you do not take to the streets demonstrating against divorce or adultery the way you do about gays.. see there is only one conclusion for that, which you obviously know."
Answer: Are you kidding? Lying affects everyone, especially, the person who constantly needs to lie. As far as taken to the streets to protest. I have never done that. As for speaking with a divorced person or adulterer that lies, believe me, they get called on the carpet too about their lying ways. When they "lying adulterers that destroy their marriages" come out of their closets and start posting, you'll see Christians responding to their lying posts.
"Lying affects everyone, especially, the person who constantly needs to lie. As far as taken to the streets to protest. I have never done that. As for speaking with a divorced person or adulterer that lies, believe me, they get called on the carpet too about their lying ways. When they "lying adulterers that destroy their marriages" come out of their closets and start posting, you'll see Christians responding to their lying posts."
We have had 5 Presidents that were adulterers and NO the Christians didn't respond to it nor did you try to block their civil rights. Duh You're a hypocrite.
YeahRight, your last paragraph posted "We have had 5 Presidents that were adulterers and NO the Christians didn't respond to it nor did you try to block their civil rights. Duh You're a hypocrite."
Answer: None of those presidents are in office today, are they? If our current president cheated on his wife, he wouldn't get voted in again either. Many political candidates lost their positions due to being caught LYING.
"None of those presidents are in office today, are they? If our current president cheated on his wife, he wouldn't get voted in again either. Many political candidates lost their positions due to being caught LYING."
They were in office when they were having their affairs and yes some did get reelected. LOL! Oh let's talk about all the LIES the churches are spreading these day shall we....hint....it's in this section and then pick up a history book. DUH! Even the book of John is made up of lies. Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.
LMAO LOL!
@Yeah:
“Heterose.xual behavior and hom.ose.xual behavior are normal aspects of human se.xuality.”
Definition of BEHAVIOR 1a : the manner of conducting oneself b : anything that an organism does involving action and response to sti.mulation c : the response of an individual, group, or species to its environment
Glad that we know people are not born gay.
"Glad that we know people are not born gay."
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.
On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"
The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.
Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).
There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.
Thanks Erik for posting that but I don't think "Wow" will get it at all. It's why I have posted this The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured." – over and over again but they're to dense to get it. LMAO!
'WOW' has already made a decision, so don't bother. It's a stupid ass decision, but it's made. No getting through that thick skull.
Wow, some day you'll figure out why the mental health societies decided to back lying to one's self, as "normal".
"Wow, some day you'll figure out why the mental health societies decided to back lying to one's self, as "normal"."
The hundred of thousands upon hundreds of thousands of experts that have said being gay is normal are lying. Then only one lying is you.
YeahRight, the only expertise these folks have, is knowing where their bread is buttered.
@Erik:
From your statement I see you actually can't prove anyone is born gay but only point, by the means of research that still can't PROVE a person is born gay, to the possibility that they could be born gay.
If you can't prove that you are born gay then it must be a choice or be based on experiences a person has from birth on. On the flip side: If you don't want to believe in choice or experiences then okay but stop saying you are born gay because you just can't prove it. So if you can't prove you are born gay then how are you gay?
"YeahRight, the only expertise these folks have, is knowing where their bread is buttered."
And your church doesn't. What a hypocrite. They have proven that what was written in the past about gays were done by bias and prejudice people, that includes your bible.
"If you can't prove that you are born gay then it must be a choice or be based on experiences a person has from birth on."
It's biological moron, hormone levels in the womb, the development in the brain. You really need to get an education, no wonder your a prejudice bigot on this subject.
YeahRight, when you get over being comfortable with those associations lying to you. You'll figure out why they support liars. One reason (not the main reason, but one) is they know you liars can't handle the truth. The 2nd reason is obvious ... if you only had a brain ... that worked. In the mean time, we have to put up with sinners blinded by sins of lust, lying, sloth.
"YeahRight, when you get over being comfortable with those associations lying to you. You'll figure out why they support liars. One reason (not the main reason, but one) is they know you liars can't handle the truth. The 2nd reason is obvious ... if you only had a brain ... that worked. In the mean time, we have to put up with sinners blinded by sins of lust, lying, sloth."
LMAO you think hundreds upon hundred of thousands of experts are ALL lying about gays? That is just the excuse you have to use since you have no real facts to refute all those experts because you won't face the fact you're nothing but a prejudice bigot. Keep the lies coming proving you can't even follow your own rule book. LOL!
CNN, how about a news story on the leftist extremists, too? Why are we only hearing about the Knapps & Worleys? Just read the comments below – they exist on both sides.
Here's Chris Matthews (not a conservative) calling out the g.ay lobby in their hypocritical attempt to silence their opponents (in this case, Tony Perkins) – even though he agrees with the left on this issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CcN7Q86zUo&feature=player_embedded
Have not seen anyone wishing to silence anyone.
Countering their statements and calling them out on their hate is not the same as wishing them silent.
@ weight: then you didn't watch the video.
Got anything re: calling for the government to kill someone, or put them behind electric fences?
No?
Just the right wing religious crazies? Hmm.
Nice try, idiot, play again tomorrow.
@Russ, I am at work on my lunch hour and video streaming is blocked on our network.
I speak in generalities. I see many on the right telling the left to shut up and deal with majority rules. I have not seen the same on the left.
Personally, I prefer that all are permitted to speak and be heard. As long as it is understood that the right to speak does not exempt you from the right to be proven wrong, to be spoken against, to be seen as hateful, etc.
It is easier to face an enemy you can see, than one who deceives you with cunning words in your ear, while speaking hatred of you to others.
@ sam: I'm not defending these guys for being hypocritical. the cross tells them they deserve to die, too. they should mention that. but go read the comments on this blog. you don't have to look hard to find the extremists on the left calling for these pastors to be killed. the extremes on both the left & the right often look a lot alike – but I'm only seeing CNN report on one side...
@ weight: i heartily agree with allowing all to speak. it's the old Voltaire quote: "i may disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it." however, as I said to sam above – just read the CNN belief blog with regularity. you'll find plenty of extremists on the left as well (wanting death to those who want death to them).
Russ, only phony Christians that never read the Bible are calling for these pastors to be executed. Those pastors where talking about the phony Christians too that are spiritually dead, not knowing Jesus' truth, listening to false preachers preach man's logic instead of Jesus' truth on their videos. Stop thinking it was all about gays. Too prove my point, listen to the videos again with ears that hear.
CQ
The moral law is an either or law. The ritual is more if u like it. I laugh when people confuse the two. Se.xual sin prohibitions including gay se.x is a moral law not a ritual law.
By the way since as u know husbands go an.al with their wives. The don't sleep with a man as with a woman is right
Fine.. lets say that only the moral laws of the OT needs to be followed.. would you call adultery, breaking marriage (aka divorce) moral laws or judicial or rituals? and what is the punishment for breaking the moral law again? and why isn't it applied?
"Se.xual sin prohibitions including gay se.x is a moral law not a ritual law."
To be moral means that you will not bring harm to any other individual with your belief system, that is not true when it comes to some Christians and the gay issue. Gays are entitled to have the same long-term loving relationships that straights have. The experts have shown that being gay is NOT a choice, it's NOT a mental illness, and it CAN"T be voluntarily changed. To be moral means that you do the right honorable honest thing and that includes giving gays their EQUAL civil rights. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
@YeahRight
You have the wrong definition of morality. It is not based on whether harm is brought to another person. It's a consideration, but it does not determine morality. That's where so many atheists and ho.mo.s.exuals go wrong. For example, it is morally wrong to smoke marijuana even if it hurts no one else.
"You have the wrong definition of morality. It is not based on whether harm is brought to another person. It's a consideration, but it does not determine morality. That's where so many atheists and ho.mo.s.exuals go wrong. For example, it is morally wrong to smoke marijuana even if it hurts no one else."
No it's not. That's where you are getting it wrong. Is it morally wrong that you are denying a loving couple their civil rights that protect their spouses and their children? Is it morally wrong that people like you go around calling other people lifestyles and abomination when it's not. Is it morally wrong that you are using a 2000 year old book to spread hatred and lies about a minority group that aren't based on the real facts of today. Sorry Dude but Christianity's history has proven they are always on the wrong side or morality when it comes to civil rights.
You have a false morality, YeahRight. I will pray for you.
"You have a false morality, YeahRight. I will pray for you."
You're the one with the unfounded hatred and bigotry without real morals so pray for yourself since you'll be headed to your hell.
Nii
People are literally dying because of the shame and ridicule bigots place upon gays, so I really do not see anything to laugh about here.
I don't think that the Jews would have made any distinction between what you call "moral" and "ritual" law. God commanded the 600 plus laws and each were regarded as equally serious to them. You come from a gentile tradition that did not want to be obligated to follow the Jewish law. Jesus did not mention it, but stated the "Golden Rule" that can easily be understood to include full acceptance of gays. Paul remained a Pharisee personally, which explains his prejudice, but there is no argument to be made that Jesus actually shared this feeling. Any Christian feeling that the Bible's message is in accordance with fulling accepting gays as they are is justified.
You, my friend, are part of a dying breed. In 50 years your kind will be viewed in the same way most Christians now view the slave-owning Christians_ Misguided (at best!)
CQ
Moral laws r called such since u cannot observe them without having a moral mindset. Ritual laws can be followed whether one is moral or not. You can be a Jew or Christian who loves his neighbor as himself or not. No middle ground. You can attend church or synagogue and eat kosher regardless.
@nii: and as we've seen from you, you can be a hypocrite and deny it. you refuse others to be seen as equal under the law, yet want equal rights for yourself. so you preach loving your neighbor as yourself, however you don't follow what you preach..........like most religious zealots.
WASP
Equal under what law? Biology doesnt countenance it! Funny people use hermaphrodite snails n pre-puberty lambs skipping about oblivious of their own gender as examples of natural gayness. lol
No gay gene. Just behaviour.
Hinduism-Bhuddhism don't condemn gay s.ex. They marry heterose.xuals only!
Hinduism does not have any mention of gays.. positive or negative.. that does not mean they are against it, fyi..
Buddhism is not a religion.. it is a way of life. and Buddha (meaning the enlightened one) is not considered god, but one who found *his* god.
you learn something new everyday, eh?
But enough of showing your ignorance.. lets talk about your homophobia.. can you tell me in a few sentences (without saying "its in the bible" or "god said it") why you think being gay is wrong? or how it effects you what two men do in their bedroom? or what they rob from you by becoming a family (according to state's definition).
I get it now. CNN picks and chooses who may post and when. The last 4 replies I attempted never showed up and my new comments. Why is that? When I attempted to repost the comments it stated I had already posted that information. Nice CNN. I will be shocked if this comment actually makes it to the comment section but if it does I will know the nature of CNN.
LOL!!! Now they let me post LOL!!!! FUNNY STUFF!
As has been explained, there is a word filter in place. Often, the offending word is found inside of other words, such as the word "t.i.t" inside the word "const.i.tuition".
Review your comment with that in mind, and you can probably find the offending word and modify it so that your post will go through. Hope that's helpful.
Thank you for the information. I will review my replies to see what I can find that might be causing the problem. Again thanks... LOL thought for sure I was being blocked LOL.
WOW,
Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters or some html tricks to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
---
ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
co-on.....as in racc-oon, coc-oon, etc.
cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
cu-nt.....as in Scu-nthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, drift-wood, etc.
ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
hu-mp… as in th-ump, th-umper, th-umping
jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
nip-ple
o-rgy….as in po-rgy, zo-rgy, etc.
pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
p-orn… as in p-ornography
pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
que-er
ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
sl-ut
sn-atch
sp-ank
sp-ic.....as in desp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
sp-oon
sp-ook… as in sp-ooky, sp-ooked
strip-per
ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
wt-f....also!!!!!!!
Thank you helpful hints.
We're sorry you're too stupid to figure things out.
LMAO. Why not just ban the English language?
And curiously he appears to be wearing a shirt made of blended fabrics. a clear violation of Leviticus 19:19 "You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together." -He also appears to have had a haircut and shaved his beard – another violation of God's commands in Leviticus 19:27 "'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.".
He might enjoy a good lobster salad too, and probably doesn't kick his wife out of the bed when she's having her period either.
@ CQ & Keith:
3 types of OT laws for Christians:
1) ceremonial: required for being spiritually clean.
Jesus' sacrifice now makes us clean. These are already fulfilled in him.
2) judicial: apply to ancient Israel's theocracy.
Useful for understanding God's nature, these no longer apply as we are not ancient Israel.
3) moral: reveal the purposes for which God made us.
These still apply. They are universal – hence the frequent appeal to the 10 Commandments.
You are citing ceremonial laws, when the pastor is appealing to moral laws. The ceremonial laws were fulfilled on the cross. The moral law also was fulfilled by Jesus (he died in my place for failing the moral law), but we Christians now want to live in light of the purpose for which God made us.
This objection about cotton blends & lobster fails to understand Christianity. On the shellfish/lobster argument, read Acts 10. All food is now spiritually clean because of what Jesus did. It's not inconsistency. It's understanding the implications of the cross.
And yet, where this pastor fails so miserably is the cross. He doesn't seem to remember that at the cross Jesus made it clear that he, too, deserves death for the things he has done. He, too, has failed the moral law. However, biblically, he has this much right: what God reveals to be a sin is just that – a sin. And both the OT & the NT make it clear that ho.mo.se.xual acts are a sin.
It is horrible these guys (Worley & Knapp) are so self-unaware. But it is also horrible to call things good which clearly are not.
@russ: one major flaw in your logic...........a person has to believe what you do to think something natural to most creatures in the animal kingdom is a sin. i think refusing to see another human as an equal is a sin, refusing to acknowledge that children are small versions of adults and have a lot of insight on things is a sin.......but loving another of the same gender isn't a sin, it's love. love isn't ever a sin
@ WASP: no, my point here was not to get them to agree with me – but to help them understand that they are objecting to a straw man. If you're going to have a thoughtful public debate on the issue, it's better to actually engage what your opponent thinks, right?
Only a handful of Christian sects believe that the ceremonial law still applies.You don't have to be a Christian to understand that CQ & Keith are making an objection that misunderstands the prevailing Christian view of the OT.
But of course, that's assuming we actually want to talk to each other – and not just take cheap, soundbite shots. And in a society like ours with news outlets like this, that seems to be less & less the case.
Russ
Am I right in understanding that you state popularity of belief as your reasoning for classifying the OT sanction against h0m0$exuality as anything other than a kosher law? I mean, if coming in contact with a woman's fluids was deemed un-kosher then imagine what coming in contact with another man's fluids was considered?
The "prevailing Christian view" until relitively recently, would have been against any notion of the rapture, the equality of women, the emancipation of slaves, and a host of other things that most Christians today look back on with some disgust being attached to their religion's history. The current trend would make it likely that gays will become fully accepted by the majority of Christians, perhaps within our lifetime, in which case your argument loses ground, right? Christianity has, and will evolve again.
@ CQ: well put. no, i was not citing popularity of belief as the basis for correctness of belief. i was pointing out that the frequent objection of the shellfish argument fails to hit home w/ the vast majority of Christians since they don't hold that view of the OT. if the goal is to actually engage your opponents on their understanding, that argument fails to do so. that was my point.
the basis (among Christians who desire to be biblical) for the correctness of belief is that it is God's Word – popular or not. And notably, the ethical positions you cite (toward which such biblically minded Christians now look in retrospect with "disgust" – as you put it) were found to be *biblically* untenable. in other words, *without changing* their method of interpreting Scripture, they were convinced that they were actually out of step with the Bible's teaching.
for example, MLK did not convince Southern conservatives that the Bible is wrong or that they had to radically change their method of interpreting the Bible (hermeneutics). Instead, he convinced them that the Bible taught racial equality in Christ. he did so by citing biblical bases for such beliefs (Gal.3:28; Philemon; Hebrew prophets; etc).
the problem for the g.ay lobby: no such biblical basis exists for the g.ay lobby *within* the conservatives' current hermeneutic – which in their own self-estimation *has not changed* since it was written. Yes, interpretations have changed – but the *method* has not. it's what makes them conservatives (they "conserve" the same way of reading it).
if there were pro-ho.mo.se.xual verses in Scripture (as their are for racial equality), then there might be a hope to see that happen. but as there are not, the g.ay lobby is instead fighting the greater underpinning of conservatives' faith – which begins to feel less like a "hey, let's think about our same Jesus together" to a "hey, your Jesus su.cks; come let me replace your entire faith with my version."
check out David Chappell's book "Stone of Hope" on this point. It's what distinguishes the civil rights movement's successful engagement with conservatives from the current g.ay lobby's inability to do the same.
Russ
I believe the recent article here ent.itled "My Take: What the Bible really says about h0m0$exuality" neatly outlines a very compelling way to read acceptance of gays within the Bible. It may not be within the conservative's "current hermeneutic", but I'm not convinced of your argument regarding this. Maybe it worked as you say in the case of civil rights, but definitely not in the case of slavery. There, the conservatives had the literal biblical argument won.
What they lost to was a radical, liberal read of what Jesus' teaching was regarding human equality and loving your "neighbor", and I think the same thing will win the day here. The young are fleeing the conservative churches they view as bigoted. They will form the next generation conservative churches to fit their feelings in this, and Christianity's opposition to gays will become history. The only question that remains is will it be sooner, or later?
@ CQ:
1) as Kevin DeYoung pointed out less than a week later on this blog (an entry here and a longer linked article on his own blog), that article ("My Take: What the Bible really says...") was rife with poor exegetical scholarship. Again, if that is the angle the g.ay lobby must take, their only biblical hope is to actually convert conservatives to a new faith. That will be a losing battle. And that's also why conservatives feel attacked on this issue.
2) I think you are deeply mistaken about the end of slavery. For example, William Wilberforce (who is largely responsible for bringing the abolitionist movement to bear in the English speaking world) fought & successfully changed the British Empire's laws based on his very *conservative* biblical understanding. It was his conviction that all races bear the image of God that led him to fight so vociferously for the end of the slave trade.
3) Your assessment that all the young are fleeing the conservative church seems only to take into account the collegiate years. Statistically, once families are formed, many reconsider the roots they fled. And, more to the point, most begin to realize the melodramatic cry of "bigot!" whenever anyone disagrees with you is overstated. Despite CNN's efforts here, not all conservative Christians are Worleys & Knapps.
This, I think, is what the g.ay lobby most fears: that loving, biblical Christians will continue to grow in "loving their neighbors" without abandoning the rest of their biblical convictions – that what the Bible clearly defines as a sin can only be called that. Embracing your neighbor (regardless of race, creed, disposition, se.xuality) does not mean accepting all that they claim is true. If that were the case, Christians could never go to the home of someone of another faith.
It's one thing to encourage a major religion to go back to its roots (as MLK did) – it's another thing to wage war on those roots (as the g.ay lobby is doing).