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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET
We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmedBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals. The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven." The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on. At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video. A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video. The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises. Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats. No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor. The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches. Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.” The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate. The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody. "They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible." soundoff (3,151 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 Next »
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It never ceases to amuse me when Christians declare random babblings from "Holy" men to be "truth". See "Truth" is something that is verifiable and certain. What you all have is belief in lieu of evidence or logic, which is all fine and good for you. Just stop calling it "truth", as that is a flat out lie.
What you just stated is actually called a logical fallacy. It's called "Appeal to Ignorance."
Essentially the fallacy boils down to, "Because you can't prove it, it can't be true."
YES!!! Someone recognizes the distinction between these to words. However, I have adopted a phrase from Indiana Jones that the real difference is between "fact" and "truth". If you want "facts" study the sciences and history that is supported by evidence. If you want "truth" study philosophy. All religion are various forms of philosophy. Saddly many religions have become twisted to the point where "truth" is "factually" moronic.
Whenever a person of "faith" says the words FACT or TRUTH what they are really saying is "my opinion".
DamianKnight, incorrect, Talmonis didn't say that it was untrue, he said it was a lie to claim it was true – which is accurate.
What Talmonis actually pointed out is that theists often use the logical fallacy of "negative evidence."
In other words, many theists claim that because you cannot disprove something, it therefor must be true. This is a logical fallacy because a lack of a disproof is not evidence of proof, it is evidence of a lack of disproof and nothing more.
truth?...ok you can have my version..."the named is NOT the source of all names"...when you understand what this means, then you will understand that IF there is a god then he/she/it is the source of ALL religions. When you get it, you will understand how stupid and pointless argueing over religion is....mans problems are mans problems created by man for his own amusement and profit.
@ Honey Badger Don't Care: LOL!!!!! So you are saying that, because I am a person of faith, my statement, "Water is made of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom" is only an opinion. Communication and belief are very complicated. Though it is my opinion that "hate" and "Christianity" are oxymoronic my opinion is so personnally strong it has become my belief. It is one of the things that help me get through life. I say "Keep The Faith" whereas as Bill and Ted say, "Be Excellant to Each Other". For all practical purposes these say the same thing. If what Bill and Ted say is your opinion than, practically speaking, we are not so different. A cold beer sounds really good about now.
it is only a lie if he knows it to be so and continues to claim it is truth.
I urge you to re-read his statement.
"See "Truth" is something that is verifiable and certain. What you all have is belief in lieu of evidence or logic, which is all fine and good for you. Just stop calling it "truth", as that is a flat out lie."
He asserts that in order for something to be truth it has to be "verifiable and certain." This is incorrect. Simply because you cannot prove something does not mean it is not true. Truth can be absent of proof. If I were to say, let's say, aliens exist. You state that I cannot prove the existence of aliens. Under his logic, because my statement is not verifiable and certain, the truth cannot be that aliens exist. It seems we may be speaking about the same thing, but on opposite sides. I am stating, "Just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it's not true." You are stating, "Just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it is true." Both are valid statements.
It is interesting that many atheists try to pigeonhole religion by using science (which in and of itself leaves its assertions open so they can be changed and modified if new evidence presents itself, thereby making nothing in science certain.) when the essence of any belief is faith. There are two problems with this argument. One, science is only interested in the natural world and what can be perceived by the five senses. This is an incredibly limited viewpoint as anything one cannot perceive is not addressed. Second, one of the the definitions of faith according to Merriam-Webster dictionary is: "b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust." This is anti.thetical to science as science is looking to explain and prove, and religious beliefs are based on the inability to prove and to trust despite lack of proof.
What is the truth? Truth with small letter or capital?
For a second, lets take out the words; church, christians and bible.
Some people who have nothing better to do with their weekends, only to gather and feel worthy by putting others down to excuse their low self-esteem, due to lack of education and gluttony they put upon themselves. After years of this learned behavior and don't see a problem with hating thy neighbor.
PASTOR THINKING: Your welcome for making your miserable life feel better about yourself, now drop money in the basket that I will be passing around the church twice, because you're saving too much money for that soda and fried food that you'll be stuffing yourself with after church. Be here next Sunday, or I'll tell g0d to cast you into the lake of fire...
Shouldn't the church sign be captioned: "Soul Building"? Seems like a few folks could have used that more...
The don't tech hate, they merely teach outdated dark ages restrictions on love.
I heard they teach spelling 101 on tuesdays. You should go.
Jeremiah Wright didn't hate either
Sure he did. A hateful black bigot is the same as a hateful white bigot. The tan doesn't amount to anything but an excuse.
The pathetic battle cry of throw stunted right. Ignoring the main point and the scores of Christian Right ignorant views to make some confused point. Barry Goldwater was correct in his fear/prophecy from over 30 years ago. Just don't destroy. The country while you destroy. The GOP.
Typing on Kindle equals typos....
These people are really not that different from the Taliban.
Amen!
different? they are exactly the same....in thier ingnorance, and being to lazy to actually think and feel for them selves,they believe every thing they are taught, and pass it on too thier kids thus perpetuating the ignorance and hatered. It the human way, I`m right your wrong....god says so.. ALL religions use the same insane arguement too spread fear and hate of those who they don`t understand or whom they feel threatened by. Walk away from organized religion, learn about other world religions, find real truth in the common ideals of each...instead of focusing on the differences. We humans all pray for the same things..mostly health help and happiness and that is the base of ALL religions. The hate and judement is not "god`s" it`s yours, and if that the message your church is sending out...well no wonder people are leaveing it behind.
Well I can see more hate in comments toward Christianity, than in this whole issue. Taliban or not but I can sense that a lot of people here would like to level Christians to ground and visa versa. So how this behavior better then Taliban's? There were and will be intolerance toward Christians in the year.
A lot of people don't even believe in God, so why bother to comment. And people who believe in Jesus should stick by the Book, which clearly defines what is sin. So there is no reason to make one sin look bigger then other. Christians should love sinners and should avoid sinning. The message of Christ is his love, so let's make your message reflect what Jesus said. And his message is: "Go in peace and sin no more". Please except his call. People don't understand that the earth is just battleground between God and Devil, so people have to choose between two. So you have to choose with whom you spend your afterlive. There is no hate message, but warning. Put it this way, how would people know if they are not told? Not knowing law does not make you non-guilty, so if you are not being told, it is not going to help you. But to Christians: please make sure that you peace creators, and not fueling conflict.
The heart surgeon goes on about the child abusing parents who buy or allow their kids to have that chili's ultraburger with 1920 calories, 120 grams fat including 43 grams sat fat, sodium equal to 6 pounds of well salted french fries, etc. and with rightous indignation chastises those parents. He is telling the truth. He knows few will listen and his profession will continue to be prosperous. Would he intone against said child abuse if he knew people would believe him and his professional income would decrease 50% very soon? Reader, note the words "child abuse".
You are absolutely correct – this is child abuse – teaching children to hate others for being different. Creating the next generation of bullies and criminals who will have no tolerance towards anyone but those who hold the same exact views. Furthest thing from the JC I was taught about in the bible.
huh! I just described the Taliban. If the fanatical shoe fits....
We don't teach hate...
for people that believe the same things we do.
They don't preach hate , just predudice thier congregations produce the hate.
Unicorns, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Jesus, God–you see where I'm going with this?
@Pete: I see you are still promoting your rainbows and unicorns... Good for you... Proud of you .. LOL
I see very clearly where you are going with that kind of thinking and it is not a nice place!
Hrmmm given a choice of wich heaven to believe in/go too...I pick the one with santa claus the easter bunny and unicorns....you christains can have the one with the hate and judgement and wars etc.
@bill: it appears you have made your choice already.
These s-c-h-l-o-n-g s-h-i-t dipped eating s-o-d-o-m-i-t-e-s, and their a-t-h-e-i-s-t counterparts the April fool’s day celebrants, can’t debate one on one due to their prevalent ignorance and cowardice, several hundred of them have nothing constructive to say, except oral d-e-f-e-c-a-t-i-o-n.
Henry, close your bedroom door while you fantasize. It is rude to be seen with that look on your face. And take a shower, please.
Henry, ease up on the haterade! Did your boyfriend dump you?
Some day "good sir", it will be you and those like you responsible when they finally come for your churches. I hope you enjoy.
I hear Henry likes to tag team with priests, just saying
atheist is a bad word?
Why Henry, that's mighty Christian of you. I'm pretty sure Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, and there are no exceptions to that particular entreaty. Self-loathing is very unhealthy. I
WOW Henry! Talk about prevalent ignorance and cowardice! You must be the POSTER CHILD for all ignorance and cowardice!!!
What a GOOD christian you are....
prilyam, I think that's his problem – he hates himself for being secretly gay so therefore has to lash out like the mad man he obviously is. I wonder what state this kook lives in. Could be we'll be hearing about a mass shooting from this deranged felllow in the near future! Hope not, but that kind of self loathing, if left unchecked, cannot be contained for long!
Henry! Mom says she wants the computer back!
I don't object to Christians saying they believe that certain folks are going to hell for what they do. However, the sense of glee that some clearly demonstrate about that belief does trouble me a lot. I would be more convinced that such messengers were speaking for Jesus if they showed me more tears and fewer high-fives.
Totally agree. No follower of Christ should delight in the damnation of another person. And no Christian should say that any person is going to Hell or not. That's God's decision.
John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." So if these Christians are seeking to follow Jesus, they should also be seeking to help save people and not condemn them, right?
To the original point of the article, I don't understand why these churches are focusing SO much on this one issue? Aren't there other issues that are rampant in their communities that they can get on fire for? I mean, if these churches focused as much attention on poverty and human suffering as they did preaching about the "gay agenda", I think that would go a long way to alleviate the pain in this world.
Agree with most you say. However Jany of the groups use rhetoric causing some to act against gays with physical attacks. When that happens there is no protectef speech
One of the things I know that if you don't know how to preach with love, and point to people's sins, then don't do it at all. It will not do any good. The other thing is that there is nothing wrong to let people know what sin is in eyes of God.
HeavenSent has obviously not actually read the book he claims to believe so much in. Otherwise he'd realize that much of what he is spewing on this site is also considered to be a sin. My guess is he is a fat, ugly troll with an IQ of about 72 who can not understand why there is not a woman on the planet who would want to be with him. He is, therefore, jealous of ANYBODY who can find themselves a life partner whether they are gay or not.
If you want to get personal with everyone moron, it can be done right back at you ... idiot.
ad hominem much?
hey that's my job
Why would any kind and decent person want to go to heaven? It's filled with hatemongers and hypocrites. Do you really want to spend eternity with the congregation that teaches little kids to hate?
Because no hypocrites or hatemongers will be in heaven. It's that simple. And those who once were hypocrites or hatemongers will be forgiven if they are in heaven.
You just can't see the truth. Your eyes are veiled because you choose not to believe. I don't agree with a child singing the song he did, but if you would truly soften your heart and believe, you would realize what truth is.
@what..ever – "if you would truly soften your heart and believe, you would realize what truth is"
Read: "If you would just surrender rational thinking and your personal freedom to the jesus cult"
J, how about gays? If hatemongers and hypocrites are forgiven, are gays forgiven as well?
@gladimnotyou: I think very rationally. So much so that I am convinced that the gospel is true. What non believers don't realize is that these stories that CNN reports are in the extreme minority. I wish they would report on all the good the church does without any recognition or glory. Helping to rebuild Joplin, feeding the poor, visiting the sick. I don't know the answer to the g-a-y question, but I do know that i will continue to shows God's love be helping others and being a good example. You can't argue that.....
If someone gives you directions to a place because your lost you don't get upset If someone gives you directions spiritually, because you may be lost, you call them haters. The bible has many laws and directions for the lost and telling them is not a sin or hateful.
In the Bible is the act of h.o.mo se.xual.ity considered a sin?
Lawrence
The bible has many laws and directions for the lost and telling them is not a sin or hateful.
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And, this is hilarious, because the bible is a collection of the writings of men, none of whom actually knew the actual and proper "directions" to the desired destination.
WOW
In the Bible is the act of h.o.mo se.xual.ity considered a sin?
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Who cares? The bible contains the writings of man, not the "writings" of God. No one can make the claim that they "know" the bible contains the "thoughts" or "feelings" of God, if God even has thoughts or feelings as we know them. These things are not knowable.
@What....ever: You are very rational? So then you've surely realized, that at the very core, God's only message is do as I say, or burn in hell, right? Btw, even god didn't follow his own commandments. So it's more like, do as I say, not as I do, because I said so, or burn in hell. Talk all you want about being nice, sweet, generous, or a follower because you've rationally figured god out, but the message is clear to all of us other 'rational thinkers.'
"If someone gives you directions spiritually, because you may be lost, you call them haters"
Because 1) they're NOT lost 2) they're giving bad directions.
@Mad:
If someone writes down a testimony of what that person witnessed and they have others to verify the same testimony in writing does that make it less or more accepting of a “claim” that the testimony is the truth or lie?
WOW
@Mad:
If someone writes down a testimony of what that person witnessed
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When most biblical stories originated, they were passed on verbally for years, as at the time there was no method of "writing down" anything. Plenty of room for inaccuracies to develop, stories to be stretched and modified, and normal human bias to interject. If you're suggesting that man simply took dictation from God in creating the bible, then I again laugh at you.
If it quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck, no matter what it tries to tell you. I wonder how haters are going to get received at the pearly gates.
The reason these p-e-r-v-e-r-t-s equate truth with hate is due to the fact they must force themselves to believe that b-u-g-g-e-r-i-n-g another man in the a-s-s is perfectly normal.
It works for you, Henry.
It is apparent by your repeated posts about an*al inter*course that you have an unhealthy mind and a fascination with same s*ex partners. Seek help, drop the bible.
Henry: Still dreaming of taking the savior all the way in your mouth?
Kind of telling that they feel their church needs security.
Faith in action.
It's not hate. It's telling the truth. Ho-mos-exuality is an abomination to God. And if you believe the Bible, ho-mos-exuals are going to burn in hell unless they repent. Sorry to be the bearer of inconvenient news, but it is the truth.
And the Bible advises you to judge?
Yea, you keep living in the made-up fantasy world that you live in, while the intelligent among us keep it real.
It's the truth per the bible, right? But outside of the bible it doesn't hold any water. So, in your world the bible is the truth and anything outside of it is wrong?
H.ell is a fairy tale for children. Believing in fairy tales is not an endearing quality in an adult.
The Word of God judges us all.
Intelligent? Denying something just because YOU haven't seen it, just because YOU haven't looked at it, just because YOU haven't heard it doesn't make it fake. There are lots of things us as humans that we haven't seen, heard, or saw in this world, but just because we aren't aware of it doesn't make it fake. God is the same way.
Can you find the word "tolerance" in the Bible? And it refers to.....
You people keep telling yourself that there is no God. You people are in for a rude awakening for God exists whether you believe in him or not.
@J
Is that your argument for a god?
What about "Love your neighbor as yourself?" Shouldn't you be showing love and preaching the good news rather than pointing out other peoples' sin? Your heart should break for them, yet you sound self righteous.
Evangelical: Get back on your knees and open your mouth, for the second coming of Jesus
Well I can see more hate in comments toward Christianity, than in this whole issue.
A lot of people don't even believe in God, so why bother to comment. And people who believe in Jesus should stick by the Book, which clearly defines what is sin. So there is no reason to make one sin look bigger then other. Christians should love sinners and should avoid sinning. The message of Christ is his love, so let's make your message reflect what Jesus said. And his message is: "Go in peace and sin no more". Please except his call. People don't understand that the earth is just battleground between God and Devil, so people have to choose between two. So you have to choose with whom you spend your afterlive. There is no hate message, but warning. Put it this way, how would people know if they are not told? Not knowing law does not make you non-guilty, so if you are not being told, it is not going to help you. But to Christians: please make sure that you peace creators, and not fueling conflict.
Hi, Eva, fortune-telling again? With a turban? Perhaps a stint as a gopher on the Weather Channel would bring you more satisfaction. Knowing the future is a human pretense. Can you foretell that I am going to put a question mark at the end of this sentence
@Evangelical – Jesus was overwhelmed with compassion for people. Do you feel ANY compassion? If not, you are missing the point and you'd do us a favor by keeping your mouth shut.
Well my Bible (King James and NIV) Both state that if you accept that Jesus died for your sins then salvation is yours (I have yet to read a version that stated "less your gay"). This school of thought is known as the Roman Road. It also states that "he without sin be the first to cast the first stone." Gays deserve to be loved to the cross not hated by the cross. I pretty sure we aren't suppose to hate!
I hope radical gays firebomb your church. Preferably when there aren't any people inside.
@Voice of Reason
Yes it is
Apparently someone has not told you the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Furthermore, "abomination" did not have the same meaning then as it does now. Jesus wept.
@evangelical: In the Book of Proverbs (Mishlai), King Solomon stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:
1.A proud look.
2,A lying tongue.
3.Hands that shed innocent blood.
4.A heart that devises wicked plots.
5.Feet that are swift to run into mischief.
6.A deceitful witness that uttereth lies.
7.Him that soweth discord among brethren.
notice the last one? you judge, your teach hate, you burn in hell.......enjoy. 🙂
@eva "God exists whether you believe in him or not"
Prove it.
Yea... i can just feel the love in this church... tolerant of only themselves.
It's past time for man to quit worshipping gods.