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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET
We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmedBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals. The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven." The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on. At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video. A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video. The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises. Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats. No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor. The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches. Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.” The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate. The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody. "They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible." soundoff (3,151 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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It amazes me how so many "christians" seem to be absent the day the sermon is about love, tolerence, and not judging others. Or maybe those sections are being skipped over so they can let preschoolers bash gays?
True Believers Judge (aka discern not according to their own standard Matthew 7:1-2)
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24 (Ephesians 5:11, 1 Corinthians 5:12)
"But he who is spiritual judges ALL things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one." 1 Corinthians 2:15 (1 Corinthians
6:2-3; 10:15; 14:29, Romans 16:17)
Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)
What is right?
The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8).
Amen.
What is wrong? Heaven Sent is wrong. All wrong. Disgustingly wrong. Wrong in every single way. As wrong as yogurt that's past its 'Best by" date.
Entropy, Cosmology, Time, and Eternity – My argument against the existence of God
I'd first like to talk about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the concept of time. The concept of entropy also gives us the arrow of time. Because systems on a whole will always go from order to disorder and these changes cannot be undone, the arrow of time always points to the future. Because of this, nothing lasts forever. Every star will die, and all of the matter in the universe will eventually fall into the remaining black holes. At this point, the universe will be dark and after a incomprehensibly vast amount of time all of the black holes will evaporate into Hawkins radiation. Nothing will be left but pure chaos without change. At this point the arrow of time is no longer valid. Time will end. This assumes that the universe doesn't simply dissolve or "pop" before this happens. These are all inevitable conclusions based on our understanding of the universe and the laws of nature. When I was young there was still the steady universe theory, but even that was not immune to entropy.
But somehow there is an intelligence that is outside of the universe that is eternal and created the universe that we see.
In order for this to be true, then this being must exist in a universe that does not obey the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In a universe like this we would have no way to even define time. I see no way that anything resembling a consciousness could exist in that universe and also had the ability to reach across universes and select a few special humans with which to share this existence.
I've "known in my heart" since I was a child that the laws of nature did not and could not allow for any religion that espoused an eternal afterlife to be true. Even concepts like reincarnation are not eternal as all life will be gone at some point. I spent decades attending church, and kept my atheism in the closet. I have never wasted my time digging through religious material, exploring "alternative" spirituality, or even reading the bible. I knew it was all bunk, I'll let others try to enlighten the ignorant. After years of terrifying contemplation of the end of my existence and consciousness, I have finally accepted that literally everything comes to an end.
I do believe that we are special – I am aware of my existence and I have the ability to understand the true final death of the entire universe that we live in. Entropy and the arrow of time are what give me a sense of immortality. My existence is real, and the conscious choices that I make in my life change the entire universe until the end of time. I can create differences between the past and the future that can never be undone. For all of time every action that I make changes the universe irrevocably.
I am keenly aware of this, and because of this I take my own personal morals and ethics very seriously. I know that every action that I take can never be undone. I can personally define a "sin" as breaking my own rules, and therefore none of my "sins" can ever be forgiven. You could say, then why have any morals or ethics at all and never feel guilt? Well, the answer is that I am not a sociopath and I would actually like to enjoy my life by getting along (loving) the other beings with whom I am sharing this tiny sliver of time on this tiny speck of a world. I also would like to die knowing that the entire universe is better because of the choices that I made in my tiny blink of existence.
Fact – Infinity is a mathematical concept only. Eternity is a false concept.
Why am I now coming clean? Well, last weekend my step-daughter was married in a beautiful park on a beautiful day and the pastor had the audacity to go on a hate filled tirade against gay marriage. If it weren't for the fact that I didn't want to create a scene, I would have got up and walked away calling the minister a bigot. Instead, I was taking a video of the ceremony for the couple. Now I have to present them with a video of their day of love with a huge swatch of hate mixed in. In ten years or so they will have to explain this hate to their children, and hopefully in another twenty years they will have to have the same conversation with their grandkids. This ignorant, hate-filled bigot left his footprints in "my" universe and I feel the need to counter his changes.
I've never felt the need to spread my personal philosophy or even come out publicly as an atheist, and I don't really care if I "convert" anyone. I do feel that I have to speak out now and hope that other closet atheist will at least speak out against what is happening in this country. I have an IQ of around 140 and like most other high IQ people, I have problems socializing with "average" people. The normal range of IQ for humans is 70-130 with 95% of the population falling into that range. The IQ of a smart dog is estimated to be 30, so me talking to a person on the low end of the IQ scale is like a normal person talking to a dog. I will have no greater chance of convincing someone that heaven can't exist than I will teach my dog to play poker. I only hope that fellow like-minded people will try to "sweep" the footprints that these idiots are leaving in "our" universe. They certainly have been stomping around lately.
Sorry for the length of this post
One more time for good measure since the non-believers still don't get it ...
Jesus wrote about the non-believers in the following scriptures:
Fool (66)
Foolish (52)
Foolishly (12)
Foolishness (20)
Fools (42)
Fool's (7)
I'll post one of my favorites about the non-believers of the world.
The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1
Amen.
doggy treat – doggy treat – roll over
I've been lurking here for months – I just wanted to feed a troll once.
This is my first post on this blog – anyone care to make a serious comment about what I have to say?
Little Hero, I am with you all the way. I see that not many have responded reasonably to your post, but that's OK. I read every word you wrote.
You are exactly where you are meant to be, using your life in the most thoughtful and creative way possible. The shock of having your daughter's wedding day smeared with anti-gay rant by the minister is a dreadful experience. I would have spoken up, for I am farther along the agnostic path than you.
Your invitation to "closet atheists" is superb. I think that gay rights have had their streak across the sky and now are a recognized part of our constellation, with the president of the United States speaking frankly about the issue. The next step will be for agnostic/atheists to come out of the closet and speak up.
The tyranny of organized religion was a shrieking monster only a few centuries ago. Nowadays, it is simply vermin than needs to be crushed as soon as it is noticed. Soon it will be viewed like the lacy corset that so many stylish women were required to wear in the male dominated society less than a century ago. It will only be in museums, safely behind glass, along with the instruments of torture that it created for the Inquisition and witch trials.
You are a good man. Don't bother trying to persuade the virulent Neo-n.azi Christians who post here. They are to be pitied for having sacrificed the only thing that separates us from animals: our logic and rationality. They see this sacrifice as a virtue, but, having tried to engage them in philosophical discourse, we know better.
@Hevensent
One more time, since you don't get it. Jesus is dead and buried, even his bones don't exist any more. So what you think he might have said about fools is irrelevant.
That would be @HeavenSent.
@jungleboo
Thanks for the encouragement – I've been waiting a long time for the world to wake up. I was literally born in the middle of the Cuban missile crisis, watched man land on the moon as a child, and am completely embarrassed by the lack of progress in education and enlightenment. I am about to turn 50 this fall, and I was in the generation of programmers and hackers that gave you all the tools. My generation is now slowly pushing out the old guard, but the youth are the engine of the world. Make it a better place.
@ Little Hero
Quite simply, thank you. You have probably done more good in one post than you will ever know.
I am just a few years older than you. I grew up in a religious home and spent decades trying to reconcile the religion of my youth with what my heart and brain knew to be true. Bit by bit I was able to peel away the layers of brainwashing until finally I had to confront myself with the knowledge that everything I had been taught since birth was a lie, that god doesn't exist, that death is a final sleep with no hereafter. That was a terrifying step. A few years ago, I met and became friends with someone who is an atheist, and like you, very intelligent, his life is an example to me that our time here is not wasted without belief in a deity or an afterlife. I knew then that my life, too, leaves an imprint that will stay once I am gone. He also did not try to "convert" me, he just answered my questions simply and honestly. Finally, I knew that I could let go and stop believing in god without fear, that I wouldn't become a non-person.
So, perhaps someone who is going through the struggles that I did will read your words and receive inspiration and courage from them. Again, I thank you for your decision to speak out. May you have health, peace and a long life.
@ LittleHero. Your comment is a nicely presented point of view. The universe will end. The forces that are holding the universe together will disintegrate one day. As is, the universe is vastly expanding than the speed of light itself; so at least, given that everything stays the same, galaxies are destined to be isolated from each other. There is one thing, however, I'll like to point out: The Creator is not subjected to His creations. God is not bound by time and space, or by any of the forces that hold the universe together. Why? Because He created them to have the exact properties and characteristics as we've observed they have. The laws of thermodynamics and other similar laws are the results of our direct observation of what God has programmed to work in certain ways. Please, do not ignorantly conclude that these laws apply to the Sovereign Lord.
In fact, the creations are the reflection of our invisible King. The vastly expanding universe suppose to remind us of the sovereignty of our God. The magnitude of CY Canis Majoris suppose to remind us of His majesty. R136a1 of His glory, Nebulas of His creativity, supernovas of his power, quasars of his beauty and earth of His humbleness, compassion, uniqueness and incomparable love. In the same way, we Christians are suppose to reflect His characteristics, but we fail immeasurably. We (Christians) do not closely approximate our Savior, not even by a long shot. This flaw is what people that do not know anything about the awesomeness of our Lord see; this is what you captured in that wedding video (I understand your frustrations).
LittleHero, it's no doubt that with an IQ of 140, you are pretty smart. I believe that you are too smart to dismiss something you haven't taken time to fully investigate. By investigating, i do not mean studying the flawed people or religious system that suppose to represent God, but learning purely about God Himself in all His perfections. I just want to reiterate that the universe works just like the Creator intended it to work; wisdom is as God created it, and knowledge is as God established it. However, God Almighty is above and beyond them all.
LittleHero
Lets get one thing out of the way – I'm anti-theist.
Your post is one of the most obnoxiously arrogant posts I've read in quite some time. I quote:
"I have an IQ of around 140 and like most other high IQ people, I have problems socializing with "average" people. The normal range of IQ for humans is 70-130 with 95% of the population falling into that range. The IQ of a smart dog is estimated to be 30, so me talking to a person on the low end of the IQ scale is like a normal person talking to a dog. I will have no greater chance of convincing someone that heaven can't exist than I will teach my dog to play poker. I only hope that fellow like-minded people will try to "sweep" the footprints that these idiots are leaving in "our" universe. They certainly have been stomping around lately."
I finished pretty much top of the class in medical school. I was intensivist for many years and have been a lung transplant physician for 15 years, have a PhD and an MD, I'm a member of Royal College of Physicians, Royal Australasian College of Physicians and the Joint Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine, have sat some of the the toughest professional exams in medicine and am on the board of examiners for the college of physician. I have no problem in conversing with persons 'on the low end of the IQ scale or anyone else for that matter'.
I have friends and colleagues many who are Professors (I am one myself) who are the forefront and many are pioneers of medicine (some of them) are religious but hardly any have problems 'talking to stupid people) I do recognise that religious belief is more common in the uneducated but frankly your taking it a bit far.
I would hazard a guess that your inability to converse with people of lower intellect is more likely to reflect issues related to your personality (I'm being nice here) than your 'godlike intelligence' – no disrespect.
REALLY smart people don't even know their IQ in the main.
People who quote their IQ and use it imply some sort of superiority are:
Quite obviously narcissistic and often not as smart as they think they are.
None of your arguments for the non-existence of God are remotely original by the way.
@elmondo
OK – I admit I was arrogant, but one of the most obnoxiously arrogant post you've read? More arrogant than the common "All atheists will burn in hell – and I know this as truth"? You spend quite a bit of time listing your academic and professional accomplishment, then you diagnose me as a narcissist based on a single paragraph, without even meeting me. What I said may be arrogant, but there is a kernel of truth in it as well. Although you have no problems talking to average people, I would be willing to bet that you do not explain the entirety of a procedure along with medications and the mechanisms by which your body would reject a transplant and how the medications prevent this such that 100% of your patients truly understand the principles that took you years to learn. The father of one of my good friends was considered to be one of the great minds of the twentieth century. He had an IQ that was unmeasurable, and although I never met him, his son claims that he had problems communicating with anyone. Arrogance seems to be the weapon of choice on this board, and I may have used it in conjunction with a little hyperbole, but I would contend that arrogance is a necessity of survival, and we are all guilty of it. Do I feel guilty – not really. I was just expressing my struggles to include individuals with little interest in critical thinking into my limited social circle. I do not define my success in life by my accomplishments, but by how much joy I can experience in my short lifespan. I have friends and family that are not necessarily the brightest bulbs on the tree, and some of the most joyful beings I have ever encountered have been Down's Syndrome individuals. I don't try to have philosophical discussions with them, but I most certainly do love them. I admit that I really don't think that IQ means much and that measuring it is not really science, but it is a measurement that describes the range of broad human intelligence. In reality, we are not all created equal – but we all deserve equal respect and equal rights. I would never refer to one of my Down's Syndrome friends as ret.arded, but there is a huge swath of the American population that is completely brainwashed and refuse the gift of reason they were born with, that certainly are ret.arded in the dictionary definition of the word. Am I arrogant for saying so? – maybe. Am I a narcissist? I think if you really examined the ideas that I laid out, you would realize that I certainly do not consider myself the center of the universe, and if you met me you would probably think I was quite humble.
Now – on to the meat. I never claimed that my arguments were original, in fact since I came to this conclusion when I was about 7 or 8, I consider them to be quite obvious. As for the argument that "my god exists beyond space/time", well this I would call semantic mast.urbation. Give me a definition of existence and space/time that makes this phrase make sense, and I would be happy to discuss it. How do you even define existence without where and when?
LittleHero
Thank you for replying.
Thank you for correcting me: The business of it being one of the most arrogant post I've heard was over the top.
However you used the words "I have problems SOCIALIZING with "average" people. So your not even talking about problems about socialising with those with IQs of 70 but 'normal people'.
I agree that I don't get into the intricacies of immunology and allo-graft dysfunction. But that is not socialising, most socializing does not involve discussions about cosmology, theology, philosophy, the meaning of life or chronic rejection.
You agreed that you were arrogant when in-fact arrogance is a key feature of narcissism. Yet you claim that you are "quite humble'.
Now I am not 'diagnosing you with a narcissistic personality disorder as per DSM/ICD-10 criteria because I can't and you probably don't but arrogance is a key feature of it.
But to claim to be humble and then claim that your inability to socialise with 'normals' is because of your high IQ (which to be frank is not that high) kind of makes me scratch my head.
@elmondo
I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well over the web and across cultural boundaries. When I put the word "average" in quotes because I did not mean it literally. I was in fact referring to the approximately 50% of the American populace that are willing to undermine the principles of this country because of their religious intolerance to gays, and feel compelled to shout it to anyone in earshot – even in polite social settings. As for "bragging" about my IQ – I really don't think it means much, but I am quite confident in being in the top couple of percentile points on the chart. And yes, it isn't very common that people even know what their IQ is, and it can and does change over a lifetime. I happen to know because when I was an early teen, my grandfather died (he was ostensibly my father) and my atheistic thoughts drove me to grave depression. One of my teachers saw what was happening and helped me cope with the loss. At the time, he told me that very intelligent people will have these feelings, and that depression is normal and that suicide is an irrational response. Later when I was a young adult, after maintaining a very close relationship he told me what my IQ was. Incidentally, this man went from being a playboy bachelor to a devoted husband and father when he joined an evangelical church. He didn't change one bit, he probably knew in his heart that I was an atheist, but never tried to preach to me. We continued to talk about the things we always did. I have absolutely no problem with religious people, some of my favorite people are very devout. They have their belief and I have mine. You have no right to be offended by gay people.
Bye everyone...May God bring you all more enlightenment......by the way...ya'll forget about the little boy?....God is Good.....
RUN, DICK, RUN!!! Run far away!!! Run so you don't have to answer the hard questions you can't read!!!!
Face it Tommie Tom, you just bored another one away (LOL).
Then my day has been worthwhile.
Pathetic comes to mind.
Not surprising. Your "mind" is pathetic.
Tommie, Tom, you're slipping. I thought you post a h-i-s-s-y (snake venom) fit.
"Tommie, Tom, you're slipping. I thought you post a h-i-s-s-y (snake venom) fit."
Hmm. Care to translate?
Why can a church state what they believe, and receive backlash, but gays and lesbians can do and say what they want and we can't attack or say that they are wrong? If you don't want to hear what they are preaching, then don't go. If you don't want to hang out with gays and lesbians, then don't. Problem solved.
what did they do and say? ask for the same rights as everyone else? and you say it is wrong of them to ask for those rights?
A church can state whatever they want, no one is stopping them, and others are allowed to respond to their speech.
Is the church closed down? Did it lose its right to be a bastion of hatred? Is the building shuttered? Was the pastor (gurgle–I hesitate to call the idiot that) arrested? Charged? Hanged?
What's your problem? Don't like it when your beliefs are questioned? Boo hoo. That's the price YOU pay for living in a free country, doofus.
Sally Sue, they can't stand that Jesus wrote about them throughout His truth (the Bible).
Fool (66)
Foolish (52)
Foolishly (12)
Foolishness (20)
Fools (42)
Fool's (7)
I'll post one of my favorites about the non-believers of the world.
The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1
Amen.
So, HS, you can't come up with a single thing that anyone did to silence this church? Thanks for playing.
@HeavenSent
Once again you merely pop out your bible verses that prove absolutely nothing.
"The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good. "
HeavenSpent,
This is the same thing any cult would say to get and keep members so what is your point?
The "cult" ure of gayism has long been the log in many people's eyes Sally. The Gospels treat gayness with disdainment and does declare gay and lesbian isms as being worthy of stoning. There are many ideologies in the Gospels that mankind has turned away from. As a civilization we are far from the histories of Christ's Life! We have surpassed the ages of uncertainties and are now coming to a point where Cultural Globalization is becoming the social normality. The question now is, "Will globalized culturalisms become socially acceptable and well received?"
Disdainment isn't a word, you retarded git.
Really, Doggie Do, you insensate bonehead, when will you get an education that will enable you to argue from a stance rooted in knowledge and intelligence, and stop trying to pretend you are anything but a dimwitted hillbilly who never got past seventh grade?
Or is that just too hard for you and your pal Sally Doofus?
Hark, do I read mindless drivel from the mindless mass of confusion from the non-believers having the desire to be different than the rest of society?
As Moe Howard (3 stooges) said to the fools of this world "tried to think, but, nothing worked" woo,woo.
LOL.
And for you, @HeavenSent, Winnie said,
“When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.”
-and-
“Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?”
God. Love Him or leave Him. Two choices. Christ Jesus He is either your savior or you never truly knew Him. Four choices. Either be in the world yet be not of it. 6 choices. Either heaven exists and hell also exists, Chose your life's path wisely. If you do not believe in heaven or hell, then may your life here be filled for your end will be just that. The end!
Christians with little faith are far better off then those whose life is centered upon wealthiness and pridefulness. Neither wealth nor pride will be of any use, now or tommorrow or ever! Don't worry! Be happy!
Are you implying that all non-chrsitians lives are centered on wealth and pride? If so then you have some major pride issues yourself.
You are missing choice #3 -I have never left god since he never existed to me in the first place.
Doggie Do, have you learned nothing? It shows.
I will not "imply" HawaiiGuest. Your implication(s) are the issues you have to deal with. My stance regarding my views are meant for Christian and Non-Christian alike who use wealth and pride to make something of themselves without even helping the most poor and needy people.
And yet you do not say that. I wonder why it is that you do not bother to actually state what you mean in the first place, unless of course you didn't mean that and are merely revising what you said.
I type what I want to type, HawaiiGuest. It is due your implications that are of interest to me. For you seem to be siding with "non-Christians" being either agnostic or atheitsic. Am I correct with this assumption HawaiiGuest?
I've never made it a secret that I am an atheist, and yes you write what you want, but you cannot honestly discount that what you write has implications beyond what is merely written.
Um being a X-ian is unhealthy. Praying is signs of mental illness.... I have being using others name as game on this site to make them look mentally ill and stupid.....I thinks its fun so I guess I'll continue huh.... what do you think everyone? this site is just not secure enough.......
btw Christian since 8 ... I posted some things that you didn't say....starting with the Jesus Diaper thing and the End time things and the F U thing.....so I think it's best for you to go ....cause it's only HATERS that is on this chat line and may be some gay couples to who are practicing that very sin as you called it..... BYE BYE...... it wasn't nice having you ....
You sound almost as closed-minded as those you criticize. You do realize it is possible to pursue a concept with such zeal that you become the very bigot you seek to condemn?
CHRSITIAN8,
So let me get this straight– you believe that an invisible man in the sky created this whole infinite cosmos, just so he could populate one little, backwater planet with a bunch of primates to judge for following their biological drives and being gay?
Really?
of course!! it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? **sarcasm, for the uninitiated
sayin it twice with lest errors ....................interesting finds....and why do gay couples choose to come and congregate in a Christian Church that is known to be Christian and still come in the Christian Church and expect the Christians to pretend like they're not there and only practice what the gay couple wants them to?.........speaking about rights and fairness......when you attend something that is christian you should expect christian behaviour and christian belief, etc.......isn't it the christian rights? or is it that the Christian need to hush up in their own small area...and let the gay couples take over the Christian things?
Equal rights for the LGBT community in marriage does not impugn your rights to not agree with them, nor does it impede you from practicing your religion. Marriage is not a religious thing, it is a union of two people recognized by the federal government, and marriage ceremonies routinely take place out of churches.
Once again, the Christian inability to mentally separate:
1) your right to not be gay
2) others' right to be gay
Nobody is saying you have to be gay or agree with it– all gay people are asking you for is the right for THEM to be gay. Allowing gay people to wed, affects you in NO WAY WHATSOEVER.
sayin it twice with lest errors ....isn't it the christian rights? or is it that the Christian need to hush up in their own small area...and let the gay couples take over the Christian things?
---
Did this make sense to you when you wrote it? Meth does that to weak minds, from what I hear.
You lost me at "sayin it twice with lest errors"
Do you mean "saying it twice with fewer errors"? If so, you fail.
Also, you are free to say whatever you want. I am free to say whatever I want.
You do not have the right to deny someone their civil rights under the law. Since you don't have a grasp of basic spelling and grammar, I'm guessing that you didn't do too well in your junior high civics class either, when they taught you about the First Amendment.
Many gays choose to attend a christian church because that christian church accept sand allows gays to be equal to all other pepole in all ways.
In time you shall see that the Lord Jesus Christ would be high a lifted up.....but for now stick to the topic in question....was the child wrong for singing such beautiful song or was he fulled into singing something that some say is a Hate song? Answer....nope what if he was to sing that a straight couples are going to Hell, wonder how that would settle on the gay couples, guest it would bring sweet music to their ears and all the christian had to shut up.......The world being controlled by Lucifer himself......
So...you've been a Christian for what, a year?
@Tom –
Nine months.
The child himself was not wrong– he doesn't know any better. The tragedy is that children like the one who sang the song, are merely a mirror, for reflecting the Bronze-Aged values and bigotries of their parents on the outside world.
Are you actually eight years old? Because if you are, your spelling and grammar are still unacceptable. By the third grade, you should know the difference between "fulled", and "fooled" and "guest" and "I guess".
Then again, you think this hateful song is "beautiful" so I'm not surprised that you are uneducated.
Not sure what you are babbling about....
"so if it was from God, that knowledge will lead to life but from man to death"
So far, in the last 2000 years, "knowlege that came from God" included:
1) Pi = 3
2) flat earths
3) a geocentric universe
4) a 4000 year old universe (even though there are cultures on earth whose written history goes back farther than that)
5) genocide being okay, as long as it is against Egyptians
And in the last 2000 years, "knowlege from man" included space travel, cell phones, Directv, personal computers, modern medicine, democracy, equality (a concept Christians are still struggling with), and an overall increase in the human lifespan from 35 years to 75 years....
Sad.
Please DISTINGUISH between what a religious body says and what the Bible Teaches....
Note to All who are Openly Seeking:
Name the known areas of scientific study: What did each of the founders of these venues of knowledge believe about God, Christ, The Bible (100% all believed Evangelically)
It just makes me laugh when some goober who can't figure out how to use capitalization attempts to interpret the word of an almighty, omniscient God for others who actually learned something in 3rd grade.
@ ViC Torrey:
Sweetheart Vic. As late as the 19th century men and women had to cover their agnostic/atheistic philosophy because of the rabbid power of the churches over ignorant masses. The church could literally tear you limb from limb for speaking your mind on these issues 5 centuries ago. Anyone who tried to be a scientist 4 centuries ago HAD to keep their feelings private. FEAR. The same fear you guys are bandying about right now.
We are fortunate to be able to speak our minds now. Young people who read these posts have the issues clearly laid out before them, and they will be able to choose in ways that I lacked only a few decades ago. You faithful types are on your way out, the grave being the only vehicle available to you.
Someone told me that all Eve saw of the serpent was six inches from the head on dowm.
HawaiiGuest....this is not religious, this is straight talk and simple explanation.....it's what you believe in that defines you......and if you believe that sin is a bad thing, then why would you practice it...why not try not to do it...the only benefit there is from it is death......but the gift of God is eternal life only through Christ Jesus...History speaks of him....
First off, try using the reply button.
Secondly, I don't use the word or concept of sin, since it is merely the product of a religion designed to fit into an unjust system of control.
Third, only the bible speaks of the Jesus your talking about, and even the gospels can't get many aspects of his birth and life consistent, so other than some copies of translations of copies of copies, there is no evidence that the Jesus you're talking about even existed.
"it's what you believe in that defines you"
.
Man's writings define you....in what defines you will find your faith.
I believe in Jesus and the diapers he wore on the cross. You are going to hell and I am not.
" Practicing sin", and "respecting others' right to practice sin if they choose" are NOT one and the same. You can be personally against gay marriage without having to strip others' right to engage in it if they so choose.
I do not understand why religious bigots like yourself have so much trouble understanding this very simple concept.
true just sayin.....but sometimes the knowledge that a man receive can either come from God or from man.....so if it was from God, that knowledge will lead to life but from man to death..... why would I living being try to practice something that would lead to my eternal death?..... is this a good knowledge?
So if you believe the Jesus story you believe that it is morally acceptable for the innocent to be punished to absolve the "sins" of the guilty. Do you really want to be defined that way?
It's amazing how posting things on the internet and responding to comments like these changes while you are writing....whom ever it is that twisted my words and commented about the diapers things...using my name and email address...that isn't funny, one things for sure you are more of Hater than the little boy that is in question....
Ah the good old reversion to threats of hell (which btw doesn't really mean anything since you haven't even proven your original assertion of god existing).
interesting finds....and why do gay couples choose to come and congregate in a Christian Church that know to be Christian and still come in the Christian Church and expect the Christians to pretend like they're not there and be only practice what the gay couple wants them to..speaking about rights and fairness......when you attend something that is christian you should expect christian behaviour and christian belief, etc.......it's the christian right, right? or is it that the Christian need to hush up in their own small area...and let the gay couples take over the Christian things?
Okay, who has the Idiot Translator Ring this time?
For God hasn't given us a spirit of fear but of power and of a sound mind.....try understanding that...
"Sound minds" don't believe that they are in telepathic contact with an invisible man in the sky...nor do they derive moral authority from the same ancient text that:
1) justifies slavery (as long as you don't kill them, it is okay to beat your slaves to within an inch of their lives).
2) says children with birth defects are not allowed to approach God's altar.
3) justifies genocide (ask the Amelykites and Canaanites)
4) claims Pi = 3
5) proposes burning in an eternal fireplace (an infinite punishment) for committing finite crimes
Um being a X-ian is unhealthy. Praying is signs of mental illness.
F U Just!
Your puny god is powerless. MOST – like 99% of the souls he supposedly created do NOT believe in him and according to your mythology – will all go to hell.
Republcians LOVE to say that if a teacher has failing students – it's the TEACHER who is the failure.
Guess your god is a double failure then – he can't garner enough popularity to even get HALF his creation to believe in him, let alone a majority.
Pathetic – you and your loser god.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the child's song..if you listened clearly he was singing about sin which is well understood by the very same people who finds this to be wrong...sin gets you nowhere but Hell....this song is just a simple reminder of what would happen to someone who practices it outwardly with no sense or shame of it....May our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ cause you to be changed and open your eyes to see the reality of it....Amen
Yet another justification for the hate and bigotry openly spread by many religions.
X-ian you really have no clue or you are a troll
"...sin gets you nowhere but Hell...."
According to YOUR PERSONAL BRONZE-AGED FAIRY TALE. Others who do not believe in your Bronze-Aged myths should not be subject to rules and dogmas set forth in your Bronze-Aged myths.
Simple logic.
Sorry, I don't understand sin because like your god, it does not exist!! I fully accept that people make mistakes but your term is biblical and flows in to another realm of things that can be proven with evidence to be true. What the adults allowed this child to do was horrible and wrong. How the hell do you accept that teaching a child hate based on a 2000 year old book is somehow acceptable? Your own morals are pretty fvcked!
I have zero tolerance for hatefilled bigots in this world. You are truly clueless!
Seems like a form of child abuse to me. Poor kid is almost certainly destined to a life of bigotry.
Nope, he isn't he has more life than a lot of dead people walking...and he managed to understand what sin really is..try understanding it and you'll see for yourself.....
@Christian since 8 –
So, a preschool-age child understands sin, hatred, and bigotry or is he just parroting what his ignorant parents taught him? Are children of racists born racist or do they learn it from their parents. You're not only ignorant, but vile.
Really-O?
@Christian since 8 –
So, a preschool-age child understands sin, hatred, and bigotry or is he just parroting what his ignorant parents taught him? Are children of racists born racist or do they learn it from their parents. You're not only ignorant, but vile.
Reply: With God all things are possible, like in the Bible when he called Samuel at such a young age, when his Holy Spirit is given, there's really no limits as to what he can do and if that child accepted him so young, well I believe he will understand what sin is..you see the Holy Spirit is a Spirit not natural man like me and you, not human, so I can't tell his limits and I believe that He-Holy Spirit, Jesus the son and the Father are One...so there's something even more amazing.......it was nice chating, but now I have to go...try asking Vic Torrey...he may be able to give you some more details...bye
@Christian since 8 –
You're a jack.ass.
It reminds me how Jesus and his disciples were persecuted because they taught differently the interpretation of the God's words against the mainstream religion's interpretation. Who are the victims? The slaves, the women, and now the gays. History repeats.
we should gather all the Christians in the world and send them to the antarctic let them pray to god to keep them warm,.. society does not need their hate
Sam, you're just anti-social ... and, clueless to boot.
Pot, meet kettle.
So by saying Pot, meet the kettle, you are admitting that Christians are haters. FINALLY!
I want to dance around in diapers with HeavenSent and praise Jesus!
With Jesus in the End times we will crush and kill the non-believers! You will meet Jesus's sword!
Katie, huh? What are you talking about?
"One of these days" you my friend will get your wish; the Bible teaches that all true Christians are gonna suddenly disappear (It's called The Rapture) and is spoken quite clearly about in the New Testament....
Of course some of you may think this is a fantastic fairy tale (or a secret fantasy fulfilled of atheists).....Hope you all do some serious unbiased research on this and come to the Correct Conclusion....if not, you'll most have a longgggggg time to think about it and wish those so called "fairy tales" never came true....
Jesus in the end times...I'm fascinated that so much people is interested in Jesus today and knows so little about him and uses his name as their play pen and the very same people don't want Jesus, I mean if you don't like the man he was and the God he is at present, why just not use his name..... but you see he is Real that's why and soon he will come and receive all his own and they that are not his, sadly will be cast into the lake of fire made for the devil and his demons and ....... the truth is that 'man' never wanted God in the first place, it is he that had placed it into their hearts to accept him........so he you feel that deep calling today and if you hear his voice asking you to Believe.......Harden not your heart...don't turn your ear, it is fatal to do so...eternally FATAL that is...... may God bless that little boy that sang that song....and father God in the name of Jesus Christ, protect him and keep him safe right now,,,bless him in JESUS CHRIST name Amen..... Hallelujah...we have the victory........
Ooooh, The Correct Conclusion, huh? And you have some evidence that it's a 'conclusion' and it's the 'correct' one? What is it? The Bible?
Please.
Jesus wrote about the non-believers in the following scriptures:
Fool (66)
Foolish (52)
Foolishly (12)
Foolishness (20)
Fools (42)
Fool's (7)
I'll post one of my favorites about the non-believers of the world.
The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1
Amen.
and christian is the anglicized word for "cretin" meaning Fool
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
"Pot, meet kettle."
greatest trap ever,... well not really i have meet some beautiful traps,... but is it a trap if you willing walk into it
For you.
A thought to consider without a typical ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Its awsome .
You tell your opinion, like all of us.
There is yet another level for you to surface to. It is the freedom from Saviours and dogma. You will not accept my idea, but I can tell you, accepting Agnosticism (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... It's meant to be that way to transcend any selfishness within you. I corrected your spelling and grammar after my copy and paste.
In the end, you will always kneel, puny Midgardians!
It's all a myth and everything you say you have experienced are only in, and from your own mind.
don't they Loki i mean less then 3/10 even have the courage
but we cant give up,.. we must free them
ps hows hel she didn't show up to the liberators gathering
Hel has been far too busy...she needs to delegate her realm better. She sends her best, though.
jungleboo, great minds throughout the centuries have tried to dispute Jesus' truth and came to the conclusion, there is no flaws in His truth, only flaws within man.
You tell your truth and are of course welcome to it. However your truth is not my truth and I like my truth better.
@HeavenSent
And which truth would that be? Which denomination? Wild assertions with no logical basis or form just discredits you further.
HawaiiG, Jesus is truth. He wrote about denominations in His truth. You'd know that truth if you only had a brain.
If YOU had a brain, HS, you'd be able to explain the matter.
Oooooo HeavenSent is getting snippy already.
Oh, what's the matter Tommie, Tom. Did I pick on one of your dummy handles again? LOL.
The major issue with non-believers is they refuse to read the directions.
Is that the best you can do, HS? Lame, lame, lame.
LOL. That's why they walk around with half the nuts and bolts missing.
@HeavenSent
Wow talk about way off. Dummy handle? I guess you can't tell the differences in writing styles, response styles or anything like that. But then again, your persecution complex probably makes you unable to accept that fact.
That is the issue HawaiiG, all you non-believers are just the same as the next. Whiny complainers about life as you sit on the edge of the pool, never to jump into the waters, but tell folks there's a new way to swim ... w/o ever taking a stroke.
Are you incapable of actually growing a brain, HS? Of learning anything? You really are cheating yourself and your god by remaining so ignorant.
@HeavenSent
And yet you seem to be incapable of actually addressing posts that I make. Instead you make rambling responses of irrelevancy to cover your own inability to defend your position with anything other than ad hominem attacks and non sequitors.
HawaiiG, you didn't write the post above. You responded to Kindness' post. Start a post of your own and if I'm still on line, I'll respond.
Ooooh, and if I jiggle my rosary, will you stand on your head?
@HeavenSent
Actually I responding to a post of yours in reply to someone elses. Why would it even matter who the original poster is?
ZZZZZZZZZ......sorry....nodded of there....
HawaiiGuest, just face the facts. I don't read all the babble of the non-believers. I just skim through their nonsense and what catches my eye, I respond. What doesn't, gets left in the dust.
Better get those cataracts looked at, HS.
@HeavenSent
Well then no wonder you can't ever hold an honest conversation. Without even reading what others write, you show that your close-mindedness, and your hypocrisy in expecting others to take in what you have to say.
HawaiiGuest, you've complained for 2 articles that you want my answer to a concern of yours. Instead of writing what it is that you want answered, you continue on with complaining just like all atheists that come from the same cookie cutter.
@HeavenSent
And yet you give your cookie cutter answers of "jesus' truth", and when asked to clarify, or challenged in any way, you resort to generalizations and ad hominem attacks, or you just threaten people with hell without providing any proof or evidence that such a place exists in the first place. You give non answers that you have convinced yourself is really an answer so you don't need to actually back up your statements. You admit to not really reading the criticisms or challenges people give to your posts, and that just shows your unwillingness to have anything resembling a discussion, you'd rather just sit in your self-righteous little bubble thinking everyone else is out to get you.
i see, if things were not so busy in Gaias (midger) realm i'd go visit with her
maybe through the ball around for Fenrir that mutts been so lazy after Odins death,.. i guess he takes after his dad,.... oops guess i got of topic,... so ill just say see you at Susanoo's birthday party
If they all believe that it is hate then the Bible would be considered hate then that would make God hate ,Then all Bible believing Christians would be hate . But reality is sinful people don't want to face what God has for them so they become hater's them selves. Because they want to deny there is a God, Push evolution for sin does not like being brought to light so they hate people that do shine on them . For God loved the world that he gave his only Son for for who so ever believe's in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 Now does that sound like hate? and it is a choice you make.
yes immortality is over rated trust me after the first year one your knees saying god is great you'll wont it to end
What's the matter Sammy? Jesus spoke truth about you in scriptures.
only half truth couldn't stand Yahweh neither could Zoe even i thought i could lead better, so did Samial and Nergal
but i was mostly made because of well this,.. you know saying who you can and cannot love,... hers a hint HS god only wont you to love him,... its called jealousy
ask your self if god is so benevolent and perfect why the r[evol]utions
all inclusive huh?