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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET
We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmedBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals. The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven." The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on. At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video. A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video. The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises. Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats. No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor. The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches. Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.” The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate. The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody. "They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible." soundoff (3,151 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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We arrive in rusty 1964 motorhomes.
We bring our bibles and loaded assault weapons.
We wear ridiculous clothing and have teabags dangling from our earlobes.
We carry misspelled racist signs as we stomp all over the White House lawn.
We love the baby jesus but we love to boink our cousins even more.
We believe that nascar is a real sport and that Dale Earnhardt was a great American athlete.
We believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that man walked with the dinosaurs.
We are Sarah Palin's 'real' Americans.
We are the birthers. We are the baggers. We are evangelicals.
We are morons and we are proud...
So they don't hate people just the sin. This according to the guy who was obese. I don't hear anyone telling him hes not going to heaven since he is violating one of the deadly sins. You want to know what Jesus had to say about gay people.... Nothing.
Maybe Jesus didn't say anything because it was already said in scriptures. He didn't say anything about fornication, but that is still evil.
That "love the sinner, hate the sin" tripe is just another way of excusing their hatred.
They sure do seem happy about the whole "gays are going to h3ll" thing, though, if all the laughing and clapping is any indication. Doesn't sound too loving to me.
Fornication is evil? Gosh, Iron Age mores mean sooooo much in the 21st century
Evangelical
"Scripture" also includes all those Jewish kosher laws that Christians opt out of. He said he did not come to get rid of that law, so why do Christians ignore most of it?
Just look at the hate directed at Christians on this site. This is what happens when you take prayer out of school.
I love it when bigots insist that the hate is what comes their way. I guess the hate you folks direct to everybody who doesn't believe what you do is easier to ignore.
Oh no your the oppressed majority.
Don't feed the trolls.... please.
@Rev
LMAO. I'm a troll if I express a religious opinion in a BELIEF BLOG and the atheists who come on a BELIEF BLOG and express nothing but hate for Christions are not? Once again, we have someone redefining right and wrong.
You fundiots don't even know your own history. The original lawsuits over school prayer were by and large brought by religious groups. Catholic and Mormon parents didn't want their kids reciting Protestant prayers, etc.
Evangelical loves to nurse his persecution complex. Being a martyr makes him feel good.
No, I'm not referring to you. Your feeding the trolls.... stop it. Your saying exactly what they want you to say and their response will be worded in such a way in order to rope you into an argument or debate. They love to argue and debate. They go absolutely insane when you refuse to debate your position with them. They are insecure in what they believe so they go out looking for someone one to debate with in order to reinforce their beliefs. Please stop feeding them and maybe they will go away. Or at the very least, they may engage in an intelligent discussion instead of trying to argue and debate with us all the time.
Evangical,
We don't hate christians.....we just don't like christianity or any religion that imposes its beliefs on others.
Rev: Evangelical IS a troll. If you want intelligent discussion, bring it on.
Perhaps people are just expressing their "hate" of this obvious bigotry, a behavior that any loving God would surely consider a "sin", right? Thus, they are merely "hateing the sinners", see?
The Rev. wrote, "They go absolutely insane when you refuse to debate your position with them."
No. Because you fundiots can't debate. You don't have a leg to stand on.
For example –
You folks claim gays choose to be gay. We ask for the science that supports your contention. You refuse to provide it. We provide hundreds of citations to actual science showing the biological multivariate nature os sèxual orientation, and we ask folks to refute it. You refuse to do so.
For example –
You folks claim evolution is false. We ask for the peer-reviewed science that refutes the theory of evolution. You refuse to post it. You folks claim there is no such thing as a missing link. We ask you to first provide the scientific definition of "missing link", and you refuse.
For example –
You folks claim the universe is less than 10,000 years old. We ask you to provide the scientic evidence that supports this contention. You refuse. We provide evidence the universe is 13.7 billion years old and ask you to refute it. You refuse.
You fundiots can't debate because you purposefully choose to be ignorant about the science you claim doesn't exist, or is false.
I can not speak for anyone else. I can however tell you why I do not debate. I do not debate because I know what I believe, and I know what I believe is right. I have no need to debate my beliefs. I will share them but if people reject them or dismiss them that is their own choice. It makes little difference to me and has not immediate effect on my life as far as I can tell.
I have a radical idea. Since apparently none of like what we saw happen at this church, I propose an extreme new innovative solution. Lets not go to this church, or any church where similar actions take place! .... too radical?
Not radical enough,
Let's not go to any church that cannot substantiate the claims they make with reason and evidence instead of conjecture and opinion.
Well, assuming that you are already doing that.... whats the problem?
No problem,
You asked if what you said was too radical and I answered.
It would be terrific to see moderate Christians stand up to groups like this!
They say that they DO NOT preach hate? Seems to me that what they do teach is intolerance. Pardon me if I'm wrong here but doesn't the bible say that "Jesus" taught people to be tolerant of one another and to love everybody? These so called religious zealots are hypocrits who do NOT follow the word of "God" or the teachings of "Jesus!!!" I am not a religious person, but even I know that! Too much time is wasted on hating each other and focusing on negativity and the differences between all of us! We ALL need to remember that this is no dress rehearsal, you only live once! Why waste your precious time on hating people, especially for being different?
Perfect post. Thank you for that.
Yesterday I posted this,
“Not hate, just opinion about the definition of sin. The church, boy, or songwriter are not expressing hate. They are simply expressing their opinion that it, is a sin and those who practice it, won’t go to heaven. Subst.itute drunkard or liar instead of h.o.m.o. in the song, are you still mad? There is some sin on this blog by those who through pride are getting ticked off every time someone says something in disagreement to their lifestyle. If you are at peace with what you do, why all the outrage?”
I was shocked at all the negative responses. According to several folks the use of the word h.o.m.o. is hate. If it is, then I do apologize and you will just have to take my word for it, or not, that I didn’t know it was a bad word. The songwriter and the folks at the church were either as ignorant as me or were expressing hatred.
I’m going to assume gay is an ok word. What if we subst.itute gay in song, still mad?
And I responded that christians want to legislate this sin but have no interest in legislating other sins. If you are going to use the excuse that it is just expressing an opinion about sin, than the expression of other sins (as an example adultery) should be consistant and on the same level right?
Just Claims, No Truth,
You are correct. We are hypo.crites. Christians read the bible and see how God related to Israel as a nation. When the people of the nation obeyed God he blessed them. When they turned away from God and sinned against him, he punished them. So, they see it as a sin that some states are making legal and to avoid the punishment and receive the blessings of God, as a nation, they want to make it illegal. Kind of reminds me of pro.hib.it.ion. Same driving force, Christians trying to legislate moral.ity to protect us from the wrath of God. This sin, is just the one we are on now.
Exactly Mr. Brown,
The idea that you know the mind of god, that when something negative happens to this country or the world you 'know' not only that it is a response from your god but you claim to know WHY your god is angry. Maybe god is actually angry because of all the adultery, or something else that you have not even thought of. Or maybe god is actually mad that the free will you claim he gave all of us is being legislated against. Nope you point your fingers at the gays and then can't understand why others object. The level of arrogance is appalling.
Why is it that you are not expending the same amount of time and energy speaking out against divorce and remarriage, if you are so worried about god's punishment? There are a lot more christians getting divorced and remarried in your churches, but that gets a pass because you need to keep butts in the seats. You can't afford to offend your congregation by preaching against something that at least 50% of them have done. They might leave your church. It affects the amount in the collection basket. Better to pick on a minority that doesn't really affect you.
Just Claims, No Truth,
No human can know the mind of God. We take the examples of his relationship with us from the Bible and our personal experiences with him. His relationship with us is one on one.
Folks who profess Christianity should remember the teachings of Jesus; Judge not, love your neighbor as yourself, and etc. While the old testament shows a glimpse of the wrath of God, is this not reserved for the nonbeliever regardless of what a government does? I think some Christians want a Christian nation based on an old testament view relating Israel of old to America of today.
Furthermore, if someone is not a Christian, we are not to attempt to correct them of sin. Jesus warned his followers against this. We are to tell them about Jesus. If they don’t believe how could they understand biblical right and wrong?
Mr. Brown,
You have no more basis for your view of god than they do of theirs, that is why they are dangerous, they cannot be substantiated and therefore the claims are equal.
Bet,
You are correct, sin is sin. They do have one little out on the divorce thing though, divorce is allowed in the case of adultery.
Jesus was totally against the money thing also. He turned over the tables of the money changers. He said you cannot worship God and money. All this megachurch health and wealth stuff just doesn’t match up with his words. Render to Caesar what belongs to him and render to God what belongs to him. What belongs to God? Or, better yet, what doesn’t? The widow cast in one mite and it was more than anyone else had donated, why? It was everything she had. Top that.
Robert Brown wrote, "No human can know the mind of God. "
Ah, I was wondering when this prototypical fundiot claim would pop up.
Easy way to dodge out of answering the tough questions.
After all, otherwise you would have to find a way to justify worshipping this sick, twisted, sadistic, psychotic, schizophrenic, putz of a god
“No human can know the mind of God….”, by using the word human, I was including myself. I will admit that while trying to explain why some Christians seek to legislate, I included a few beliefs of my own. It is a belief blog and everyone is free to express and evaluate the claims for themselves.
Primewonk,
Your post makes me think you are mad at God. What is it specifically about my Heavenly Father that you find so bad? Perhaps, I can give my two cents.
I don't hate what doesn't exist. You, however, believe in this god, and thus must believe in and justify all the bizarre shît he does. That certainly says a lot about your mental status.
You didn't answer my question. Why is the church not preaching against divorce and remarriage. from the pulpit if you are so worried about god's judgement. Instead, you tell me that you have an "out", adultery. Slickly done.
So does the church investigate every divorce to ensure that it was due to adultery before marrying a couple in which one or both are divorced? How does that work?
Again, the church ignores the "sin" rampant among the congregation while insisting that the actions of a minority will cause god's judgement to fall on them.
Your comment on the widow's mite has no relevance either. People are forced into t.ithing with threats of not receiving god's blessings. Their income doesn't matter. Mine sure didn't. I was poor, yet I was guilted into ti.thing and watched as the pastor bought a million dollar house, expensive cars, and designer clothes. Why is this not stopped by the church if you fear god's wrath coming down on you?
Instead, you continue to focus on a minority group that harms no one while you allow divorce and remarriage and collect billions of dollars.
Really Robert? The reason people responded so negativetly to your post is because you equate "h.o.m.o" with "liar" and "drunkard." Try sub.st.itut.eing something like r.ace and everyone would agree that the lyrics are dis.gus.ti.ng. Ig.nor.a.mu.s.
Primewonk,
Ok, I misunderstood and was just offering help as far as understanding. It is difficult to help from general statements and I can tell you don’t really want any help. Anyway, the offer still stands if you can provide specifics about things you consider bizarre I might be able to explain.
Bet,
You are correct. I agree that sin is sin. I don’t know why some churches pick and choose which sins they focus on and others don’t mentioned sin at all. Part of it I am sure has to do with media attention. The preacher sees it on the news and has to include it in his sermon. No, I don’t think there is any investigation, but some churches will not marry anyone who has been divorced.
You must have misunderstood my posts because I don’t believe we should focus on this issue at all. If you believe it is a sin, then that is between you and God.
"No human can know the mind of God. "
Yet that is exactly what theists claim to do
ThyMdeMeDoIt,
So, it is just misunderstanding. I attempted to replace the word with something else the bible calls sin. I wasn’t trying equate being gay with being a liar or a drunkard, other than they are all sin. I was trying say sin is sin. Also, they were saying if you sin you don’t go to heaven.
Your example does not apply because race is not a sin.
sam stone,
Believers do try their best to know as much as they can about God. We have the bible, our own personal spiritual experiences, preachers, and teachers as sources, but there are things we may never know. We are instructed to compare what someone says with the written word as God has revealed it to us, to determine whether someone is telling the truth about what they are purporting to come from God. In this way we can prevent ourselves from being deceived.
@Robert: according to your bible, h.o.m.o.se.xua.lity is not a sin; the act is. So the comparison really shouldn't be made still.
And I was really just trying to make the point that the message of the song (as it is right now) is very ha.teful and find it ri.di.culous that you are trying to de.fen.d it by changing a lyric or two.
robert: the end result is that there are many theists who purport to know the mind of god. to me, that is incredibly arrogant
Robert, I understand what you are saying, but still, your original post is drawing criticism because you are subst.ituting "sins" that someone has a choice of committing, drinking too much or lying, with the idea of being gay, which is not a choice. Furthermore, drunkards and liars still have civil rights and can marry. So do divorced people. Yet religious groups have a fixation on gays, and want to deny them civil rights through legislation.
No church will be required to perform gay marriages, no matter what the SCOTUS decides. The First Amendment sees to that. But, it also prevents religious groups from forcing legislation that denies anyone civil rights.
The crux of the matter is that churches have decided that gay people, who are not harming anyone, are being told that they are somehow "less than", while you are ignoring much more prevalent problems, such as divorce, adultery and pedophilia among your membership and clergy. Your critics are simply asking why.
Funny how it's okay for hot young girls to be gay together. These same men pay for it. Radical masculinists!
No, it is never ok.
I love looking at hot guys having s3x too.
Trust me – they don't have to be hot. Girl on girl bestows hotness on them regardless.
To all gays who still believe in God. Please don't be deceived by the flattering words of miserable atheists here. They have trying to lure you by making you believe that there's nothing wrong about doing the ho.mose.xual act when it's very clear in the Bible that it's abominable in the sight of God. They have been pretending that they are symphatizing your cause but the truth is they are dragging your feet to the pit of hell. They only want company of their misery.
We might be sounds hateful to you but we would like you to know that we only look for your own good. We don't want you to be ultimately deceived by the devil's minions here on earth. There's nothing wrong of being gay, WE are born gay but doing the act is definitely our choice. We are not commanded to celibate and we shared the same civil rights as the straights but unfortunately not in the way that we want to but what the law and the norms dictate.
I'm a gay, been married for eight years but happily only for six. Havone two wonderful kids and upcoming one in the womb, a 6-yr. old boy and 4-yr and another 8 months boy inside the womb of my very patient and supportive wife.
I admit, it have been a torture being in the closet and forced (myself) to get married in the age of twenty due to parents and peer presure. My first couple of years of marriage life has been miserable and pathetic that made me questioned God and put me in the brink of giving-up especially when my wife has began to notice it. Fortunately, with her understanding, patience and comfort and with my faith in God and His words we've been able to brave 'em all and remain steadfast.
And when I first saw my son, it wiped all my misery and every burdens in an instant. And the rest is history.
We are now expecting another healthy boy next month. And it will certainly add happiness and and love in our family. I can not say that I completely over come being gay and to be honest, I still admire men until now but has been able to control it. It's still a mind over matter decision. I also can not say what the future lies, what I'm certain for now that I'm happy and I love my family, and I'm likewise certain that GOD LOVES US.
It is your right to believe in god but you have no basis in fact for the personal god that hates gay s.e.x. I am happy it works for you but your assertion that what you say is objectively true is only a claim.
Good that you love your family, and best of luck to you and all of them, but also truly unfortunate that you're unwilling to live your life as God designed you.
"I can not say that I completely over come being gay and to be honest, I still admire men until now but has been able to control it."
Dude your NOT gay, you are a bisexual. LMAO! The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured." The organizations have also issued strong statement saying to try to convert a gay person into straight is dangerous!
To all the gays that believe in god, do not believe the words of the jesus sucking christards here. They are only interested in subservience
Cut to you in the airport b.ath.rooms foot-tapping away...
In the closet is no life, and you know it. Congrats on forcing yourself to do something that comes naturally to others. Having the children is nice, but when will you finally tell them that the only reason they are heard on this earth is that you and your wife forced the issue a couple of times. If you weren't forcing the issue, then you are bi. So what to any of it? You have missed the beauty of man with man. No one will ever care except you, as you continue to crush yourself. Masochism is an old, worn-out occupation.
If your hate of "sin" cannot be distinguished in words and actions from what, in any other context, would be considered to be hatred and bigotry toward a person or group, then it is hate and bigotry toward that person or group. Religious belief does not give one the free ticket to be a bigot. A bigot by any other name is still a bigot.
Exactly!
This is only true when that group defines itself on the basis of a sin. You see, ho-mos-exuality is not like skin color or the s.ex of a person which are morally neutral inherent characteristics. Ho-mos-exuality is sinful behavior. I've said it before but it bears repeating: While you may not choose your orientation, you for sure choose your behavior in the same way that an adulterer chooses his behavior. It is a sin pure and simple. Quit trying to cast sinful behavior in terms of the civil rights movement.
Sorry Evangelical, but that's a load of crap. Do you know what we call a celibate gay person? We call them gay. And gay folks have the same number of random sèx thoughts each day as us straight folks. Thus, according to your own bible, committing lust in your heart is the same as actually doing it.
You choose to ignore actual science in favor of bronze-age myths from nomadic shepherds who were so scientifically ignorant they thought epilepsy was demonic possession.
Just because you fundiots choose to be ignorant doesn't mean that folks with at least 10 functioning neurons are.
"Quit trying to cast "freedom" in terms of the civil rights movement."
.
Is what you are actually saying. Your view of sin has no bearing on freedom or the civil rights. You are clearly an enemy of the state and hostile to freedoms of others. You are part of the Christian Taliban.
@Evangelical – The Scriptures at no point deal with homosexuality as an authentic sexual orientation, a given condition of being. The remarkably few Scriptural references to "homosexuality" deal rather with homosexual acts, not with homosexual orientation. Those acts are labeled as wrong out of the context of the times in which the writers wrote and perceived those acts to be either nonmasculine, idolatrous, exploitative, or pagan. The kind of relationships between two consenting adults of the same sex demonstrably abounding among us - relationships that are responsible and mutual, affirming and fulfilling - are not dealt with in the Scriptures.
Evangelical, again the Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed homosexuality activity as unnatural. Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of women expressed in the scriptures was a product of culture and the times in which the Bible was written; it should not be followed today, now that we are beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given equality of men and women.
Similarly, as we know that homosexuality is just as natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realize that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form of sexual expression which were held by people without benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and understanding.
It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth century mentality and understanding about equality of genders, races and sexual orientations on the Biblical writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural forms and attitudes expressed there.
"Ho-mos-exuality is sinful behavior."
The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
Ho-mos-exuality is sinful behavior
----–
Says who, you?
Madtown
Ho-mos-exuality is sinful behavior
--–
Says who, you?
>
A few men who claim to have been inspired and directed by a God do. And the masses who put their faith in these few men say so as well. We should just trust that they speak the truth.
The Christian Taliban have this mindset that any religion not Christian is a 2nd class religion. What is sin to the Christian Taliban is above all other ideas or beliefs. It does not matter if a person does not believe in their sin....this is a Christian Nation and everybody is subject to the Christian Taliban Moral Law.
We are in the age of correction of putting Christians back in line with everybody else and not in front of everybody else. It is a power struggle that the Christian Taliban is losing and they know it. The people of the Christian Taliban will have to learn to compromise in the name of Freedom and respect other's rights. They will need to take courses on how our government operates and what the Consti t ution really is. The Christian Taliban will need to learn what being an American really is. It will be hard getting through the ignorance but we will do it and educate or drippy droolie caveman Christians.
LMAO. The fact that the scriptures were written 2000 or more years ago means nothing. God doesn't change. Man does. No matter what the current sinful secular culture says and no matter what science says, God's word still trumps all. And it is ridiculous to suggest because ho-mos-exual behavior is seen in nature that that somehow makes it ok. Since when do we take morality from animals? We are moral beings capable of choosing good over evil and ho-mos-exuality acts are evil.
Also, ho-mos-exuals are pushing for a re-interpretation of scripture apart from the traditional understanding of scripture. Christians must resist this. Woe unto those who call good evil and evil good.
Evangelical
LMAO. The fact that the scriptures were written 2000 or more years ago means nothing. God doesn't change. Man does
-----–
LOL!!!!!!! So, why has the bible ever been edited? Why does it continue to be edited, as new versions still are published? If God is perfect then so is "his" word(even though that's not what the bible is). If God doesn't change, nor would his word have to change.
God's word still trumps all.
....
Folks as I have said the Christian Taliban is the enemy of the state and our freedoms. Liek their Muslim brothers, GOD'S and ALLAH'S Law is above all...or should I say "trumps all".
Evangelical wrote, "God's word still trumps all. "
OH HELL NO! Not in my country!
And if you cretins keep trying to make us a theocracy, you better be ready for a bloodbath.
Primewonk
Evangelical wrote, "God's word still trumps all. "
OH HELL NO! Not in my country!
And if you cretins keep trying to make us a theocracy, you better be ready for a bloodbath.
---
The Christian Taliban sc um bleed the same as the Muslim Taliban sc um. The enemy is the enemy.
Former Marine
Threatening violence, Primework? You will lose because the vast majority of Americans are believers. We will not be threatened and pushed around by ho-mos-exuals and atheists.
"We will not be threatened and pushed around by ho-mos-exuals and atheists."
You sound just like someone who would be long to the K K K. LOL! It's sad that your prejudice and bigotry blinds you to the truth of today, just like the people in the past who fought against allowing African Americans and women to have their equal civil rights. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
The majority of Christians do not rank their religion as number one in their lives and only follow what they want to (like my Christian husband who is pro choice and pro gay marriage). Only people that have a pathetic life with few friends and no one that really loves them (so need a god to love them) put religion as number one.
"LMAO. The fact that the scriptures were written 2000 or more years ago means nothing."
Part of reading comprehension 101 is that you put it into historical context. DUH! The experts have shown that what was written in the past about gays was done by bias and prejudice people, that includes the writers of your bible. Duh!
And not one of those organizations is expert on morality.
Evangelical
Threatening violence, Primework? You will lose because the vast majority of Americans are believers. We will not be threatened and pushed around by ho-mos-exuals and atheists.
--–
You are missing the point. The Muslim Taliban does not represent all Muslims. The Christian Taliban not represent ALL Christians. We are talking about freedoms...not Christians vs Atheists. lol Man you really are not that smart. You are so caught up in getting teabagged by your Jesus you can't see reality.
Jen
The majority of Christians do not rank their religion as number one in their lives and only follow what they want to (like my Christian husband who is pro choice and pro gay marriage). Only people that have a pathetic life with few friends and no one that really loves them (so need a god to love them) put religion as number one.
--–
shhhhhhhhhhhhhh he thinks his Christian Taliban represent all Christians
@YeahRight
What experts have shown that? Only the experts you choose to believe.
@just saying
You think that the majority Christians are in favor of ho-mos-exual marriage? Ho-mos-exual marriage failed in every state where it was put up to a vote.
Evangelical wrote, " Threatening violence, Primework?"
Sorry Buttercup, but your earlier post advocated overthrowing my constîtution and instîtuting a theocracy.
The only way you ignorant môrons are going to do this, is with violence. Those of us who favor our constîtution will not allow you îdiots to waltz in do this. No, you will have to kill me, and millions more just like me. Don't expect us to just roll over and die peacefully. I fully intend to take out as many godtards as possible when you come for me.
Evangelical said, "God's word still trumps all."
.
Very telling I would say. I have said it before...the Evangelicals are the extreme just like the Muslim extremists. They hijacked the GOP and they TRULY are an enemy of the state and freedom. They want to trample the Const i tution in the name of their God. It is the Christian Taliban vs the mainstream Christians, Muslims, Atheists...or anybody else who values freedom. There is great danger when a group feels justified in their actions based on their God's Word. The blow up places whether it is an abortion clinic or flying into a building in the name of their God. The are truly ignorant and frothing at the mouth
Evangelical
@just saying
You think that the majority Christians are in favor of ho-mos-exual marriage? Ho-mos-exual marriage failed in every state where it was put up to a vote.
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Work with me and focus. It is more than the gays. We are talking about freedoms...what will the Christian Taliban determine next how we should live?
Evangelical
You will lose because the vast majority of Americans are believers. We will not be threatened and pushed around by ho-mos-exuals and atheists.
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More violence in the name of religion? Well, that's just great. "If you won't believe in my unproven, culturally-developed notions of life, then I'll kill you!!" I guess we'll just be keeping up with historical tradition then. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
"And not one of those organizations is expert on morality."
Your religion certainly is NOT an expert on morality or do you sugar coat your history? LOL! Christians murdered Native Americans including women and children while stealing their land, the kidnapped and enslaved African Americans, they treated women like property, many even tried to block the civil rights of African Americans and women. Many Christians like you have always been on the WRONG side of morality. LOL!
Once again we witness hate. What makes this so deplorable is that the cowards uses a child and then blasts the kid's face all over You Tube. No onder why so many young people are messed up in the head. They probably just got finished handling snakes and walking on glass. Psycho's.
to me, “follow Me”. God is real, He is living, “and He is rich to all who call on Him”! (Rom.10:12) Then I laeenrd that I was able to read the Bible, in my home and with other believers in fellowship and this life within me began to grow! There was another life in me, and as I read the Bible and met with other believers it was fed and happy and I was finally satisfied too! When I read chapter 1, I saw how God's purpose and plan have everything to do with saving man from his fallen condition, but that is not all! God saves us to fulfill His purpose of expressing Himself through us! That life in me that I experienced was the life-giving Spirit! It is God Himself in me, He is spreading and growing, transforming me (my thoughts, feelings, decisions, etc.) into the “Our image” in Genesis 1:26. This makes God happy and it makes us happy too! The purpose of my life is to be a vessel to contain and express God!
If heaven = spending eternity surrounded by these inbred f***s, then please send me to the other place.
lol If heaven is full of Christians that is the last place I want to be
They don't teach hate; it comes from within!
It really doesn't come from within for many people. The kid singing the song probably has very little understanding of h.omos.exuality. H.omophobia (in many people anyway) is a learned trait.
Of course these idiots are teaching hate. No child is born hômophobic. No child is born racist. No child is born misogynistic. No chiild is born xenophobic. No child is born a bigot. No child is born a theist, These are all ideas, beliefs, and opinions, that are taught by parents, family members, and caregivers.
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." - 1 CORINTHIANS 7:1 (KJV)
We can't touch men, we can't touch women. Apart from little boys, Christians really don't have that much of an option.
The bible does say that living a celebate life is the most pure, holy state. However, provision is made for a man to marry a woman. It is not an abomination like ho-mos-exuality.
Evangelical
Besides your Christ being delusional/insane cultic personality, he was most likely gay. How do you resolve this?????????
IF THEY THOUGHT THE SONG WAS GOOD OR DID NOT GIVE THE CHILD AND HER PARENTS WHICH ARE VERY BAD PARENTS A STERN TALKING TO THEY JUST HAVE TO FACE THE FACT THERE GOING TO HELL JUDGING OTHERS IS GODS JOB NOT OURS LIVE AND LET LIVE ......
Judging people is the job of the objective third party, not a fictional deity.
Yeah they don't teach hate - but they sure like to Gay Bait!
This morning, my alphabetti spaghetti spelled out the words "there is no god!".
Conclusive proof, undoubtedly.
Yeah, well, this morning the butter on my toast made an image of Eric Clapton. This is proof that Clapton is God!
Clapton couldn't lick the poop of Zappa's boot heel.
That should be off.
Disgusting. We are in a period of austerity and yet we FUND EVIL HATERS like this.
The FIRST thing we need to do is remove ALL TAX EXEMPTIONS from RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS. They SUCK money from our economy and return NOTHING but HATE.
I am SICK AND TIRED of MY TAX DOLLARS funding these EVIL, EVIL people.
love the sinner and hate the sins.christians dont be judgemental,help them to recover from what you think is right. respect them of being who they are but need to tell them of what you believe in an appropriate manner,dont put them in shame.
Well then. By YOUR DEFINITION (using LEVITICUS, of course) you are an EVIL SINNER if you DO NOT EAT KOSHER. Don't give me that NEW TESTAMENT claptrap answer that Jesus says we don't have to eat Kosher. That would stand for ANY OLD TESTAMENT rule – and that would include the TEN COMMANDMENTS.
You disgusting followers should READ YOUR OWN BIBLE and stop listening to PREACHERS THAT JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND RELIGION!
@bon
You said, "love the sinner and hate the sins."
Sin is reserved exclusively for tose that follow a religion. Those that don't are incapable of sin.
You said, "christians dont be judgemental,help them to recover from what you think is right. respect them of being who they are but need to tell them of what you believe in an appropriate manner,dont put them in shame."
Before you try to tell anyone that anything they do is a "sin", you will first have to establish whether tey follow the same religion as you do. If they don't you should keep your mouth shut.
Freedom of religion gives everyone the right to believe and worship as they see fit. Your religion and beliefs are inconsequential for anyone else.
"Sin is reserved exclusively for tose that follow a religion. Those that don't are incapable of sin."
I don't follow any religion, therefore I'm incapable of sin, therefore I am Jesus Christ.
BOW BEFORE ME, MORTALS!
Oh great, the "love the sinner, hate the sin" line of crap again.
Book, Chapter, and verse, where your god says this please.
[hint – you can't. Because it isn't in your bible. It's a quote from Gandhi – a Hindu.]
But your god does command that you fundiots go and kill gay folks. I fail to see the love in there.
@LinCA
"You said, "love the sinner and hate the sins."
Sin is reserved exclusively for tose that follow a religion. Those that don't are incapable of sin."
You're right if you speak only for yourself and your fellow atheists. The gays who protested about the line of the song that says and I qoute, "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no ho.mo going to make it to heaven." are believers, beacause, if they aren't, the protest is practically nonsensical. They could care less whether the one which they believe never existed was right or not and it don't really matter to them whether they could make it or not to a certain place that they neither believe existed.
"You said, "christians dont be judgemental,help them to recover from what you think is right. respect them of being who they are but need to tell them of what you believe in an appropriate manner,dont put them in shame."
Before you try to tell anyone that anything they do is a "sin", you will first have to establish whether tey follow the same religion as you do. If they don't you should keep your mouth shut."
Apparently, bon was trying to chastise (judgemental) Christians not the Gays. And nowhere we can find in the statement you quoted above from bon that mentioned about "sin". Are you in lucid interval when make your comment? If you do, you should have listen to yourself.
@Primewonk
"Oh great, the "love the sinner, hate the sin" line of crap again.
Book, Chapter, and verse, where your god says this please.
[hint – you can't. Because it isn't in your bible. It's a quote from Gandhi – a Hindu.]"
Are you saying that Gandhi was saying is a piece of crap?
@myklds
"You said, "love the sinner and hate the sins."
Sin is reserved exclusively for those that follow a religion. Those that don't are incapable of sin."
You said, "The gays who protested about the line of the song that says and I qoute, "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no ho.mo going to make it to heaven." are believers, beacause, if they aren't, the protest is practically nonsensical."
Of course not. Their version of christianity doesn't condemn them. According to their version, they don't sin.
You said, "They could care less whether the one which they believe never existed was right or not and it don't really matter to them whether they could make it or not to a certain place that they neither believe existed."
There are plenty of christian denominations, sects and cults to choose from. Yours is by no means the only one. Each one gets to pick and choose what they consider "sin". None of what they consider "sin" applies to anyone else.
You said, "Apparently, bon was trying to chastise (judgemental) Christians not the Gays. And nowhere we can find in the statement you quoted above from bon that mentioned about "sin". Are you in lucid interval when make your comment? If you do, you should have listen to yourself."
bon didn't specifically mention "sin" in the part that I quoted, but it was a continuation of what he/she said earlier. It appeared that he/she was suggesting that christians politely tell gays they were sinning. My point, of course, is that it's none of anyone's business to tell others what "sin" is.
No matter how politely you phrase it, if you say something along the lines of "I believe homosexuality is wrong, therefor you shouldn't engage in it", you are interfering with freedom of religion. You are free to say "I believe homosexuality is wrong, therefor I won't engage in it". But anytime anyone tries to tell anyone else what they can, or can't, should, or shouldn't do, simply based on their beliefs, they are imposing their beliefs on others. They are interfering with the others right to freedom of religion.
Let us all then love these poor sinners who so enjoyed that song!
@ Only atheists –
No, you ignorant môron. The crap is the religious idiots who keep posting that "god says to love the sinner, hate the sin". And refusing to understand that their putz of a god never said anything of the sort. And then these cretins turn around and repost the exact same lie over and over.
@Primewonk
"The crap is the religious idiots who keep posting that "god says to love the sinner,"
Did bon mentioned "God" said it? Genius?
Read bon's post again and this time use that thing at the end of your neck, it's oozing but aparently, NOT working.
Um yeah... Sorry, but I can't go over this enough times. Not eating kosher does not make you a sinner, it makes you not Jewish. Research is fun kids.
@Linca
"Of course not. Their version of christianity doesn't condemn them. According to their version, they don't sin."
Please name one Christian faith or "version of christianity" that doesn't condemn ho.mose.xual acts.
And to your two subsequent replies below on my statements you quoted, I just wish you've been able to grasp that they were only supports to my point that those gays who protested are most probably believers. You should have realized that quoting likewise commenting on them don't make any sense at all since you've already agree with me that they are believers.
While the rest of your replies are based on your speculations, interpreations and opinions. You have the right to express it. I just hope that you'll be able to understand that everybody shares the same right equally with yours.
@bon – you have the right to worthship, you have the right to condemn sin and acknowledge God's truth. Don't let they hypocrites that replied get you down!
@Only atheists, NOT gays are piles of crap
You said, "Please name one Christian faith or "version of christianity" that doesn't condemn ho.mose.xual acts."
Here is just one of hundreds: Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
http://www.awab.org/
A simple Google search will show that you are, indeed, a moron.
You said, "And to your two subsequent replies below on my statements you quoted, I just wish you've been able to grasp that they were only supports to my point that those gays who protested are most probably believers. You should have realized that quoting likewise commenting on them don't make any sense at all since you've already agree with me that they are believers."
But they obviously believe different. Even so, whether they are or aren't believers is completely irrelevant. I wish fucking morons like you could grasp the concept of freedom of religion. While you are free to be a complete and fucking idiot, that doesn't mean everyone else is one too.
Stupidity isn't illegal in this country. You are free to worship your imaginary friend. You are free to live your miserable life according to your fairy tales. But those that are sound of mind tend to shed those delusions right around the time they stop believing in Santa Claus.
You said, "While the rest of your replies are based on your speculations, interpreations and opinions. You have the right to express it. I just hope that you'll be able to understand that everybody shares the same right equally with yours."
Like I said you are free to be an idiot. You are not free to expect anyone else to be equally deluded. You are not free to expect anyone else to live by your fairy tale.
@Linca
May God Bless You.
Criminals!!!!!!!!!
I said "h.o.m.o.s.e.x.u.a.l ACTS! A.C.T.S, ACTS!!!! NOT H.O.M.O.s themselves you NUMBSKULL!
Are you trying to say that p.e.ni.tentiaries, by welcoming criminals necessarily means that they are not condemning the crime?
Yes, I did google it and I have news for you..it's CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!...that inside your cranium are pieces of sludge molded into one. No wonder it's ozzing but NOT working.
@myklds
You said, "May God Bless You."
Thank you, and I hope the Easter Bunny lays lots of eggs for you.
Religion can be used for evil as in this case. The church of hate, instead of the church of loving God.
Which loving god? It can't be the one in the christian bible. That god is petty and spiteful.
...and jealous...
Of what I am not sure but he said, not I.
Jealous of other gods, which is odd if God knows that they weren't real. It'd be like a wife being jealous of Wonder Woman.
Religion can't save anyone,its the relationship with God.
jjust live life according to its purpose,nobody has a perfect life.
Thinking you have a "relationship" with a god is still a religious belief, yes?