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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET
We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmedBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals. The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven." The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on. At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video. A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video. The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises. Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats. No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor. The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches. Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.” The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate. The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody. "They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible." soundoff (3,151 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 Next »
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T-oday we luv f-ags, tomorrow bestiality perhaps? There is no end to the circus that fallen souls present on this plane, therefore things like this come into existence. WE AS CHRISTIANS DONT WANT TO SHARE IN YOUR PERVERSION. Get it, got it, lost it ?! IDOTS
"T-oday we luv f-ags, tomorrow bestiality perhaps? There is no end to the circus that fallen souls present on this plane, therefore things like this come into existence. WE AS CHRISTIANS DONT WANT TO SHARE IN YOUR PERVERSION. Get it, got it, lost it ?! IDOTS"
The experts have proven you wrong. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience.
The same things were said to support slavery, beating women and children and so many other horrible acts. Don't act as though christians don't have their own "perversions", I have met FAR too many of them first hand. Dirty old men chasing teenage girls is far too common in the church. Get over yourself, your kind has no right to determine who is treated fairly and who is not. What vanity you christians have.
TerriL...please do not let this individual speak for all Christians! While it sounds as though you may have met some other "Christians" with less than stellar behavior, I think that group is in the minority. The Christian church is no less susceptible to crime, perverts, and downright evil as any other group out there.
Just another scare tactic being preached to the ignorant to instill fear. Many countries have allowed gay marriage for years, and so far there are no calls for allowing bestiality or any of the ridiculous stuff you claim. The hysterical tone of your post is laughable.
G: And we do not want your perversion influencing our secular laws. Got it, d bag?
If only more people could be SINCERE as that boy. You gotta be a hypocrite to believe that you can have any stake in Divinity while being a f-ag. Cheerio.
Great message there G. That's what I'm taught in church on Sunday...whatever.
It's a.s.sholes like you that create the chasm we see between believers and non-believers.
That poor child was repeating what his old man taught him. He will grow up with hate taught to him by the adults who surround him. Hopefully when he gets away from them he will be as lucky as I was and meet some of the wonderful people his family taught him to hate and learn just how wrong and hateful his family and church are. I am so glad I escaped that horrid and hateful lifestyle. Christianity, no religion in general, is the root of all evil.
TerriL...I disagree. Religion...including Christianity...is not the root of all evil. The root of all evil has been...and will continue to be...man. He will continue to use whatever he can...including religion...to fuel his quest for power.
Jeff...well said. Hitler and Stalin were atheists. Being any religion or no religion is not a way to escape evil
All evil andh hate is the same...just the excuses for it vary
@In God
Hitler was an outspoken self professed Catholic, and was raised as such. Unless you are willing to judge his beliefs, then you need to take what he said. I would also like to point out, that whether Hitler was catholic or not is irrelevant, since he used the religious beliefs of the people to execute all his plans.
That is so sad. God help them....
Can't help but notice how big and posh the minister's home is in the video. He surely is being compensated quite well by his followers. It could easily fetch a million or more in my town.
Preachers and ministers and priests and bishops and cardinals and popes all have one thing in common. They live quite well of f their disciples. That was a hell of a house!
This is a good read from the American Psychological Association's website:
http://www.apa.org/topics/se.xuality/orientation.aspx
...this answers a lot of the stereotypical concerns many people ask. The Q&A is on page 13.
Jeff, they have been posting the research over and over again but those who's hearts are so full of hatred will not read or understand it. Until there is a real cultural shift by Christians they will continue to be blinded to the truth.
Sharon...please know it is not mainstream Christianity that believes in this nonsense. Just because these types of stories dominate the headlines, the majority of us do not believe in this nonsense.
"Just because these types of stories dominate the headlines, the majority of us do not believe in this nonsense."
The votes your group casts against equal civil rights for gays proves that statement wrong.
YeahRight...touche. I can't disagree with that one bit. Religious leaders do vilify hom.ose.xuality. While it may not be prevalent in my church, I cannot ignore that you make a very strong point on this.
Here is a compelling read from AllPsych Online:
http://allpsych.com/journal/hom.ose.xuality.html
...I can't speak to much of the article as I've never really studied hom.ose.xuality. This article makes a very compelling case for it to be genetic in nature though. I am a Christian but my view on hom.ose.xuality might very well be off. I considered it a choice for a long time. I never got behind any Christian right movement to block hom.ose.xual couples from getting married and still think it's ridiculous. That said, I do/did believe it was sinful in nature, though leaving that between the individual and God. Basically, it's not my place to throw stones when I myself live in a glass house. This article is challenging my own beliefs on this particular topic. Does anyone have any more recent studies conducted they can point me towards? I'm going to continue to look, but if someone has something readily available, I would appreciate it.
...you'll need to remove the . between the word hom.ose.xuality for the link to work...
Does it really matter, though? What if it's part genetic, and part influence en-eutero? What if it's ALL en-utero? What if it's something else? All gay folks will tell you is that we don't chose it, and it doesn't change. If you look at yourself, you would probably say the same about your orientation. You didn't choose it, and there is nothing that would change it. It just is.
It is a simple and innate trait that should never preclude a person from experienceing all of the same positive human interractions that everyone else values, like love, marriage and family. Even if they have to go about it in a slightly different way than would be healthy for you, because you are straight.
MP...I agree with you...regardless of what it is or if it's genetic or not, hom.ose.xual couples should absolutely enjoy the same rights as everyone else. I do not disagree with you one bit.
I will say that, as a Christian, I do/did feel like hom.ose.xuality is/was a sin. Even with that, I never advocated for anything less than fully equal rights for hom.ose.xual couples. My thoughts will always be that any person's issues are between them and God...never me.
Jeff, I like the way you write. H.omos3xuality is a DRIVE embedded in some human beings. It is present every moment of the waking day, and sometimes in dreams at night. Those who have this drive have TWO CHOICES. They can crush it, hide it in the closet, fake a married life to a member of the opposite s3x, become mentally ill from the unbearable lie of their lives. OR they can face it, embrace it, love another who has the same inclination, and enjoy life to the fullest.
The Sunday Fundies, because they live such desperately sheltered lives inside an old book, have this dumb idea that if a gay man makes the CHOICE to live in the closet, then he is not really gay, because he has never acted on it.
Nothing could be further from the truth. If a gay man has faced his s3xual drive like a man, his choice is whether to go to bed with Tom, Dick, or Harry. That scenario is nothing different from the straight man who chooses the blond or the red head. The Fundies undoubtedly have a huge number of followers who are in the closet. They get to hide in the protection of their sacred community, they get to have children but not too many. they get to fantasize that they will "go to heaven", they get to spiritually attack the real men who actually came out and accepted their lives as gay men.
Of course they get all of this, but the trade off for them is that they will never have gotten to know who they were born to be.
Thank you for your posts. They are welcome here.
"We don't teach hate, just the bible."
But you accept it.... Same thing....
1st off...i just maps.google greensburg, indiana.
its in the middle of nowhere!
HEY Ismael Estrada GET A JOB!
i bet that song would be a hit on the next American Idol.
1. Human Rights.
2. The Bible
Choose one.
Depends on if you are speaking of the new testament or the old testament.....the new testament teaches love, compassion, turning the other cheek. Human rights are a part of the bible. Hatred and intolerance was not / is not taught by Jesus. It just goes to show that more people are killed in the name of Jesus than in the name of Satan.
Human rights or the bible???? What about religious freedom for all?? Se-xual freedom is of course somewhat different because of the horrific abuses all over the world.
Human rights – no question.
I've seen Pentacostles discipline kids being left handed. It's the sign of the devil. Good grief! There is no end to the sick things perpetrated in the name of religion.
o GOD HATES LEFT HANDED PEOPLE
You have a choice not to act on your wicked left-handedness and live a godly life!
"A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."
– Ecclesiastes 10:2
"The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted."
– Psalm 118 vv15,16
Those of us who know and follow the true word of Christ will be laughing from up in heaven while you lefties fry forever.
Better start using that right hand before Judgement day or you'll be sorry!
@ Doc: I'll start when you start.
There are 25 negative passages concerning left-handedness in the Bible, far more than there are negative passages against gays, and Jesus even has something negative to say, where he says nothing about being gay.
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: And he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.' ... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Matthew 25:31-34, 41
Ned Flanders, watch out!
We shouldn't let left handed people marry. Maybe we should fence them in
Things like this just show why the separation of church and state is so important, your allowed to believe what you want, even if its hate filled and prejudiced like the bs spewing out of this churches mouth, but keep it out of my government and away from public policy. The less religion involved in government the better.
Trololol.................................
I think everybody should mail just one used condom to the pastor's wife.
The thing that bothers me the most is the involvement of children.
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
"You've Got to Be Carefully Taught" from South Pacific
The thing that should bother you the most is the message of hate the group is supporting. The child is just a PR trick.
Just because someone believes that a certain type of behavior is sinful does not make they hateful. For example, there are people who believe that by me drinking my ice cold Mountain Dew loaded with wonderful caffeine I am engaging in sinful behavior. Regardless of my love for Mountain Dew or Coffee for that mater, I do not consider those people hateful. They just have a personal belief that is very different from mine.
People who choose to belive being born gay is immoral, or a sin, or wrong, are demostrating that in fact, they chose to be ignorant about science. They choose to believe in stone/bronze age myths from scientifically ignorant shepherds rather than peer-reviewed science.
People who purposefully choose to be ignorant like this, deserve to be mocked.
"Just because someone believes that a certain type of behavior is sinful does not make they hateful. "
They are using their unfounded beliefs to deny the gay community their civil rights that is HATEFUL!
PRIMEWONK
U can choose to believe u were born gay! However we believe it is a tra.ns.mu.ta.tion of se.xual desire. More science on our side though!
A very, very bad analogy. Were you born with a longing for Mountain Dew? Was it something you just knew you needed, inantely, even before you tried it? Would denying yourself Mountain Dew make you feel like you're not living your life as a whole and real person, not living as you're intended to live?
Rev: No one is trying to deny you your civil rights based on your drinking Mountain Dew
Nii wrote, " PRIMEWONK
U can choose to believe u were born gay! However we believe it is a tra.ns.mu.ta.tion of se.xual desire. More science on our side though!"
Nii, you stupid ignorant dumbshît. I can't believe I was born gay, because I'mstraight. You've been told this dozens of times. Sadly, your cognitive dissonance precludes you from understanding that straight folks support equal rights for gay folks. Tell me – since I also supported civil rights for black folks, am I black? Since I marched for ERA, am I a woman?
Now, post the citations to this science you claim exists. You've been asked before, and you've refused.
"U can choose to believe u were born gay! However we believe it is a tra.ns.mu.ta.tion of se.xual desire"
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.
On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"
The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.
Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).
There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.
Problem with that argument is that being gay is not a "behavior" any more than you're being straight is a conscious choice. Tell me, do you think straight men are also attracted to other men, but choose to follow through only with women because they were taught that making the other choice was wrong?
CQ
I refer u n PrimeWonk to the blogpost concerning Mormons, the BYU Honor Code and gay students where 16% of straight men had had gay feelings b4 in America! I think that American Whatever Association thing isn't much help as these are not scientific bodies for research into being gay!!!
Nii
* In 1993, the National Institute of Health’ Dean Hamer illustrated that homosexuality might be inherited from the mother by her sons through a specific region of the X chromosome (Xq28). Hamer demonstrated this by noting that 33 out of 40 pairs of homosexual brothers whom he studied showed the same variation in the tip of the chromosome.
– Hamer DH, Hu S, Magnuson VL, Hu N. and Pattatucci AML. A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation. Science 1993; 261:320-326.
* A June 2006 Canadian study published in the journal, “Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,” said that nature, instead of nurture, explains the origins of homosexuality. The study’ author, Prof. Anthony F. Bogaert, at Brock University in Ontario, explored the causes behind what is known as the fraternal birth order. The research showed a correlation between the number of biological older brothers a man has and his sexual orientation. Dividing his sample of more than 900 heterosexual and homosexual men into four groups, Bogaert examined the impact of all types of older brothers, including step and adopted siblings, and the amount of time brothers spent together while growing up.His research found that only the number of biological brothers had an impact on sexuality, regardless of whether the boys were raised together.
– Bogaert, A.F. 2006. Biological versus nonbiological older brothers and men’s sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 103 July 11 2006.
* A study released in May 2006 by Swedish scientists demonstrates that biology plays a key role in determining a person’ sexuality. The research shows that the portion of the brain that helps regulate sexuality — the hypothalamus – reacted the exact same way in straight women and gay men when exposed to male pheromones, which are chemicals designed to provoke a behavior, such as sexual arousal. The same area of the brain only became stimulated in heterosexual men when introduced to female pheromones.
– by Ivanka Savic article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, (PNAS) “Brain Response To Putative Pheromones In Homosexual Men,” (Vol. 102 No. 19) May 10, 2005.
* In 2005, Dr. Brian Mustanski of the University of Illinois at Chicago published a study in the esteemed biomedical journal Human Genetics, claiming he identified three chromosomal regions linked to sexual orientation in men: 7q36, 8p12 and 10q26.
– “A Genomewide Scan of Male Sexual Orientation”, Human Genetics, Vol. 116, No. 4, pp. 272-278, 2005.
* In 2003, University of Texas psychoacoustics specialist Dennis McFadden found that when measuring the way the brain reacts to sound, lesbians fell in between heterosexual men and straight women, suggesting they might be exposed to higher than normal levels of male hormone in utero.
– Loehlin, John C.; McFadden, David. “Otoacoustic emissions, auditory evoked potentials, and traits related to sex and sexual orientation”. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 1 April 2003.
* In 2003, University of Liverpool biologist John T. Manning found that the lesbians whom he studied have a hand pattern that resembles a man’ more than a straight female’. Manning concluded from his study that this “strongly tells us that female homosexuals have had higher levels of exposure to testosterone before birth.”
– Neave, N., Laing, S., Fink, B., Manning, J.T (2003) Second to fourth digit ratio, testosterone, and perceived male dominance. Proceedings of the Royal Society B (Lond), 270, 2167-2172.
* A 1991 study by Dr. Simon LeVay found that a specific region of the hypothalamus is twice as large in heterosexual men as it is in women or gay men. This strongly points the role of biology in sexual orientation.
– Levay, Simon “A difference in hypothalamic structure between homosexual and heterosexual men” Science. 1991 Volume 253, Issue 5023, pp. 1034-1037.
* Another 1991 study by scientists Richard Pillard and John M. Baily studied homosexuality among brothers and found that 53 percent of identical twins were both gay. In adoptive brothers, 11 percent were both homosexual. Of non-twin biological siblings, 9 percent were gay. Again, this points to solid evidence that homosexuality is a matter of nature.
– Bailey JM, Pillard RC (1991). A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, 1089-1096.
Also Primewonk accuses me falsely of not providing evidence that Biology does not consider gay se.x as right! Name a Biology or Medical text which says gay s.ex is a helpful se.xual behaviour like straight se.x. An.al se.x is discouraged among straights as well by doctors!!!
Don't kid yourself, Nii. Lots of straight folks practice an.al se.x.
NII
Ludicrous assumption on your part. Many gay men don't bother with a.nal s3x at all. BJs, 69 and happy ending cuddling are universal love activities. Your pathetic "missionary position", forced on the world by you know who's is a mean little fenced-in outlook. Why in the world would you have such a narrow view of human relationships? Where have you been hiding your head? Oh, wooops! That's not a healthy place for it to be kept! Take it out!
I think everybody should mail a s.e.x. toy to the pastor's wife. New or used. Battery operated or not.
I don't like what I see in the video either. There is however more I would like to know about the video before I would call that "hate". Muslims don't believe we Christians will not make it to Heaven, but I don't consider that hateful. That is just their personal belief. Regardless of the inappropriateness of the video, the belief that ho.m.o – s.e.x.uals will not make it to Heaven is not necessarily hateful, it is just a belief.
Change the group to "Blacks" and see how it plays. Or women. Or any other group. To say that a group is so evil and disordered because of natural traits that God Himself turns his back on them and condemns them to hell is nothing BUT hateful.
To be completely objective, I do not think it is the belief it self that is "hateful". It is how the individual applies that belief to his/her daily life and interactions with other human beings that determines the "hatefulness".
"Regardless of the inappropriateness of the video, the belief that ho.m.o – s.e.x.uals will not make it to Heaven is not necessarily hateful, it is just a belief."
But continuing to try repress the gay community is a form of hate especially since the experts has shown that being gay is NOT a mental illness, it's NOT a choice and it CAN"T be voluntarily changed. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
That all may be true but regardless, it is still just a personal belief. It does not necessarily mean that it is hateful.
"it is still just a personal belief. It does not necessarily mean that it is hateful."
They are using their unfounded prejudice and bigotry to block this group from obtaining their civil rights, that is hateful.
Oh no, dàmning people to hell because how your god created them isn't hateful. Just like the religious îdiots who say black folks are not quite human isn't hateful. Just like religious îdiots who say women are property isn't hateful.
Give me a freaking break.
Rev. you seem to say that it is just a belief and therefore is not a big deal yet beliefs inform our actions. False beliefs will lead to poor behavior.
@Rev: can't a 'belief' be 'hateful'? You seem to imply that because someon has a certain belief, that belief is exempt from being called hateful?
I believe that your belief that g.ays are not going to make it to heaven is hateful.
No, a belief that is used as a reason to dehumanize, deny rights or benefits to, or otherwise harm a group of people for sharing some trait, for no logical purpose, is hateful by definition.
ALL hate is based in some sort of belief.
Getting into heaven, however, has the connotation of having led a "good" or "righteous" life, so by saying that gays aren't heaven-worthy, and by expressing concerns over your children being gay, aren't you implying that they aren't nice people as a group? Isn't that as much hate speech as saying that all black people are criminals, or all Muslims are terrorists?
.............and how can people shake their heads and say.............."This is 2012. How can people still hate others like this?."....................This is PROOF, THAT HATE IS .......LEARNED...........................and this hate was learned in church.....................SHAME ON THIS CHURCH..............................