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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET

We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmed

By Ismael Estrada, CNN

Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals.

The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven."

The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on.

At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy."

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video.

A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video.

The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises.

Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online

The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats.

No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor.

The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches.  Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin.

The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.”

The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate.

The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy.

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"I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody.

"They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Church • Homosexuality

soundoff (3,151 Responses)
  1. YeahRight

    A law that defines marriage as between a man and a woman was found unconstitutional by a federal judge in New York on Wednesday 6/6/2012 because it improperly interferes with states' rights to regulate marriage.

    The ruling by Manhattan federal court judge Barbara Jones followed a decision last week by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit in Boston that concluded the Defense of Marriage Act discriminates against gay couples.

    Judge Jones became the fifth judge to find the 1996 law unconstitutional, adding weight to the demands of law makers and activists who want the law repealed.

    June 7, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Nothing is settled until the Supreme Court speaks.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • Jeff

      Evangelical...the more the Christian right opposes same-se.x marriage but does nothing against other sinful behavior, the more people will condemn the church. Rightly so. We should be in the business of bringing people into a relationship with Christ, not regulating what they do or how they live their lives. The more you oppose, the more you damage your ability to even share the good news of Christ with a non-believer. As I said below, I want everyone in my church on Sunday...ga.y, straight, murderer, adulteress, bully, meek, mighty, rich, poor, whatever. There is a God that loves you! Everything else is just details...

      June 7, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  2. Jeff

    Amazing what makes the news these days...but not surprising...

    I am a Christian and I have no issues with hom.ose.xuality or extending fully equal rights to hom.ose.xual couples including marriage and adoption. I don't know what the big deal is to Christians on this particular subject. If hom.ose.xuality is a sin, it's just one of many. Sins are between that person and God, not me (or the church I attend).

    June 7, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Evangelical

      I don't know how you can claim to be a Christian and have no issues with ho-mos-exuality.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      Evangelical: Apparently, Jeff is not a bigot like you.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      He is saying it is none of his business, just like it is none of yours. Do you get just as worked up about adultery?

      June 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Actually, if adulterers were campaigning to make adultery socially acceptable, I would be just as against it as I am against ho-mos-exuality.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      But it is socially acceptable, adulters can re-marry. Why don't you fight against that?

      June 7, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • Jeff

      Evangelical...very simply stated, I do not agree with hom.ose.xuality, but it is not my place to put that belief on someone else...specifically someone that does not hold the Bible in the same regard that I do.

      If I am asked my opinion, I certainly would share my thoughts on the subject. That said, I have never been taught to condemn or to be intolerant of anyone because of their sin. I want as many hom.ose.xual people as possible to be in my church on Sunday. Never to try and convert them, but to share the news of Christ with them. That's where my focus ends.

      It's funny because you mention that if adulterers were trying to pass some law into effect, you would be ardently against it. Can you please tell me where the constant targeting of http://www.ashleymadison.com is taking place? This is a website helping people commit adultery...where is the outcry from the Christian church? How many members of your church covet, sleep around, drink, or engage in some other sinful behavior? I suspect all of them in one way shape or form. Yet you get up in arms over this particular issue.

      It's intolerance like this that creates the stereotype that Christians a la cart the Bible to suit their own personal agendas. Evangelical...you are doing nothing to change that perception.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Bet

      Jeff, your response to Evangelical is excellent. Thank you for providing what I hope is mainstream christianity's view.

      June 7, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Jeff

      Bet...we do exist, but...more often than not...we are the silent majority. More Christians need to take a vocal approach and let the world know that Christ's message was of love, not condemnation.

      June 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      Jeff, it is good to read your words, as they contrast to Evangelical's verbal diarrhea

      June 7, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  3. Andre

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/woman-sues-evangelical-church-for-holy-spirit-injuries-68102/

    Simply incredible. You're suing your church (and they're probably not rich) because SOMEONE ELSE lost control of the "Holy Ghost" (aka a chemical reaction in the brain) and accidentally hurt you. Ugh... Really America?!

    June 7, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Primewonk

      If the holey spôok caused this, she should either file suit against god, or admit this was an act of god, and god wanted her injured.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
    • Bet

      Hahahaha!

      So she's essentially suing god? Excellent.

      BTW, don't be too sure that they don't have any money. They guilt their congregations into ti.thing, giving 10% of their gross income to the church. They'll never say you won't go to heaven if you don't ti.the, but you will "lose god's blessings". In other words, you'll go to heaven but you won't be seated at the VIP table.

      Check out what a nice house the pastor in this story has. I doubt he got it by working a second job.

      Religion is a money making business, and they really know how to milk the congregation.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Nii

      PRIMEWONK
      Why? Is it getting too difficult pushing gay marriage that u r diversifying into God-bashing? Yep! The days of a man are numbered but who knows when! It is to enjoy the best love we can. I love u as myself n I hope u learn what that means and share it with others!

      June 7, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Bet

      Nii, where did I bash god? I bashed the idiot who is suing god, pastors who live luxuriously off the donations to the collection plate, and religion in general, but not god.

      Just to make you happy though, your god is a mean, petty jerk who delights in torturing his "creation". But he love you all the same.

      Happy now?

      June 7, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • Bet

      Oh gosh, Nii, I see you were only responding to Primewonk. My bad.

      I don't take it back though. LOL.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Nii wrote, "I love u as myself"

      Awwww. Nii's got a little man-crush on me. Sorry Sparky, but in the words of my gay neighbor, "I'm hopelessly hetero".

      The good news is that many of you hômophobes are actually latent hômosèxuals, so you should be able to hook-up on the down low with many of them.

      By the way, my purpose here is to combat fundiot lies. Just think Nii, if none of you scientifically ignorant fundiots lied, you would have never heard of me!

      June 7, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Back off Bet! Nii wants a bro-mance with me! Unless you think he has latent heterosèxual tendencies? It's hard (sorry) to tell just how these fundiots swing sometimes!

      June 7, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      Nii: You are a pompous liar.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Primewonk,

      LMAO! Good luck. I'll bet he's boring as all heII in bed.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • sam stone

      Nii and folks in his community are likely very god-like. After all, who better to understand knocking up a 12 year old and leaving the rest of the world to deal with the rantings of the illegimate child?

      June 7, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
  4. All atheists are gay but NOT all gays are atheists

    Leviticus 20:13 started all their misery. To escape from it and evade the guilt while fulfilling their lust for sodomy and other hom.ose.xual acts, they must refute what it says. To do it they used a simple reasoning and logic.

    a.) The Bible said that it's ho.mos.exual act is a sin.

    b.) The Bible is the word of God.

    If it's the Bible who says that it's a sin and if the Bible is the word of God, The best way to refute what the Bible says is to nullify God. Simple as this:

    There is NO God, hence the Bible is NOT true.
    If the Bible is not true, ergo, ho.mo.s.exual act is not a sin.

    And they expect to sell like pancakes with the gay community as their target market. Yet, they fail. Their immateriality and insignificance in the world's populace strongly proves it.

    That's why they are working overtime capitalizing every issues especially involving gays.

    They tripled their effort in advertizing using slogans that like telling gay people that if you are gay, sodomy is a must. They also have their jingle ent.iti.tled "Born this Way" and Lady Gaga as their primary endorser. Yet, it didn't improve the sell significantly.

    But they'll never give up because, misery really loves company.

    And they are now capitalizing every issue to evengelize

    June 7, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      Your god is an asshat.

      June 7, 2012 at 12:53 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Are you planning on spamming every thread with this same lying bullshît?

      I'm an atheist. Yet I'm as straight as it gets.

      You are so lame you can't even get your own fûcking name right.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Bet

      Laughable. I'm a straight woman, and an atheist, married to a straight man. We both support gay rights.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:31 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "That's why they are working overtime capitalizing every issues especially involving gays."

      Most of the hundreds of thousands of experts that have shown that being gay is NOT a mental illness, it's NOT a choice and it CAN'T be voluntarily changed are straights and most likely many of them are Christians. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 7, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Amen brother! You hit the nail right on the head.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • Madtown

      Troll.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • sam stone

      Evangelical is a bigot. He or she finds comfort in other bigots because, after all, bigots are cowards.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Yeah, Sam, I suppose I am a bigot. I'm also a bigot against ped-o-philia and murder. You see, I have a problem with people doing immoral things. So if that makes me a bigot, I wear the label proudly.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Yeah, Sam, I suppose I am a bigot. I'm also a bigot against ped-o-philia and murder. You see, I have a problem with people doing immoral things. So if that makes me a bigot, I wear the label proudly."

      The problem with your lame argument is being gay is NOT immoral since the experts have shown it's NOT a mental illness, it's NOT a choice and it can't be voluntarily changed. They have also stated that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience.

      Spreading unfounded hatred and bigotry towards gays is immoral. Duh!

      June 7, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Evangelical

      @YeahRight

      I've told you before that your "experts" are not experts in morality. Ho-mos-exuality is immoral whether you choose to believe it or not. I also explained to you that, while orientation may not be a choice, ho-mos-exual behavior most certainly is.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Cq

      All atheists are gay but NOT all gays are atheists
      "If it's the Bible who says that it's a sin and if the Bible is the word of God"

      That's a mighty big if though, isn't it? All we know for sure is that it was written by people, supposedly all men, and probably all straight men to boot. If it isn't the word of God then is it any wonder that the Bible is so prejudiced against gays?

      June 7, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • sam stone

      Evangelical: Apparently, you also wear the label "moron" proudly

      June 7, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • sam stone

      Evangelical: And what makes a C word like you (not Christian, by the way) an expert on morality? Crawl back into your hole, slave

      June 7, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • Evangelical

      @Cq

      The Bible is the holy word of God, and you are subject to it whether you choose to believe it or not.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Ho-mos-exuality is immoral whether you choose to believe it or not"

      It is not immoral, whether you choose to believe it or not. See how we can both play that game?

      June 7, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • sam stone

      The bible is the edited translated words of iron age sheep mounters, and cover for bigots to spew their bigotry for millenia

      June 7, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Evangelical

      @Sam Stone

      You can't post a single thing without name calling and profanity and yet you call me a moron. Priceless.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Evangelical

      @Sam Stone

      You say it's not immoral. The American people disagree with you. Ho-mos-exual marriage failed in EVERY state where it was put up to a vote.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "I've told you before that your "experts" are not experts in morality."

      LOL! What an idiot. That's the only excuse you can come up with it's hysterical. You would have fit in really well with the slave owner mentality too. LOL! You just don't like the fact that they proved that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "The American people disagree with you. Ho-mos-exual marriage failed in EVERY state where it was put up to a vote."

      Still doesn't mean that it's constitutional when it comes to civil rights which is what this country is founded on especially when that discrimination is not founded on REAL facts of today. Duh!

      June 7, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      "The American people disagree with you. Ho-mos-exual marriage failed in EVERY state where it was put up to a vote."

      Evangelical,

      History is full of examples where the majority of people believed something that is false or wrong, you are full of fallacious arguments as is your religion.

      June 7, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • Madtown

      Evangelical
      The Bible is the holy word of God, and you are subject to it whether you choose to believe it or not.
      ------------
      How can this be true, when it was written and time and time again edited by men? Just for a moment, make an attempt to use your brain outside of the confines of your religious indoctrination. Just for a moment, try logic. If you can do that(extremely unlikely), ask yourself again: how can the bible be the "word of God", when it was written by men, edited by men, had it's individual works selected by men, and is continually edited and released in new versions by men? How arrogant to suggest that the work of man is actually the work of God. I'd suspect that God may actually be displeased with having the very fallible work of man credited to him!

      June 7, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • sam stone

      Yeah, Evangelical..you are a moron.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
  5. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS OF THIS BLOG ------>

    o "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    3. See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

    And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.

    For the sake of completeness:

    From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

    Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

    As noted, there are basic biological differences in gay unions vs. heterose-xual marriage. Government benefits are the same in both but making the distinction is important for census data and for social responses with respect to potential issues with disease, divorce and family interactions.

    June 7, 2012 at 11:52 am |
  6. Primewonk

    The Rev. wrote, "I can not speak for anyone else. I can however tell you why I do not debate. "

    And yet, the Rev. makes numerous posts against gay folks having equal rights. His "not debating" is simply a refusal to back up what he claims is true.

    Although, in all honesty, we shouldn't single out the Rev. He's only doing what every other ignorant, fundiot, hômophobic, bigot does.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:33 am |
  7. Kindness

    Kindness
    For you.
    A thought to consider without a typical ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus

    June 7, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • Primewonk

      Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
      Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
      Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam.
      Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
      Spam spam spam spam!

      June 7, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • Cq

      Imagine that you are just an insignificant being, one of trillions living on an insignificant planet, in an insignificant galaxy in an insignificant, tiny, little corner of the universe. How's this for an ego-deflating thought experiment?

      The Christian view, that we are the special creation of the most significant being imaginable, created in it's image, rises us and our planet above all other life forms and planets in the universe seems a bit like an ego trip to me. What do you think?

      June 7, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • jungleboo

      "Kindness
      For you.
      A thought to consider without a typical ego response

      Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour."

      Sweetheart, your are writing from the very definition of EGO. The fact that this is not apparent to you leaves the reader quite amused. Just continue to copy and paste anyway. That's the best way to appear productive without actually having to think. EGO's definition.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • WASP

      @jungle: the part i love is this section of their message "You never know how soon is too late"
      so i wonder how he/her god will react when it realizes he/she only believes out of fear of hell. lmfao

      June 7, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      "Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ."

      Kindness,

      Name ONE other area in life where evidence follows faith and it is wise to put faith above reason. You can't because it is terrible advice, people have been lied to.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  8. Rev. Joseph Reeder

    Primework wrote,

    "The Rev. wrote, "They go absolutely insane when you refuse to debate your position with them."

    No. Because you fundiots can't debate. You don't have a leg to stand on.

    For example –
    You folks claim gays choose to be gay. We ask for the science that supports your contention. You refuse to provide it. We provide hundreds of citations to actual science showing the biological multivariate nature os sèxual orientation, and we ask folks to refute it. You refuse to do so.

    For example –
    You folks claim evolution is false. We ask for the peer-reviewed science that refutes the theory of evolution. You refuse to post it. You folks claim there is no such thing as a missing link. We ask you to first provide the scientific definition of "missing link", and you refuse.

    For example –
    You folks claim the universe is less than 10,000 years old. We ask you to provide the scientic evidence that supports this contention. You refuse. We provide evidence the universe is 13.7 billion years old and ask you to refute it. You refuse.

    You fundiots can't debate because you purposefully choose to be ignorant about the science you claim doesn't exist, or is false."

    I can not speak for anyone else. I can however tell you why I do not debate. I do not debate because I am secure in what I believe. I know what I believe is true. I will share my beliefs but if people choose to dismiss or reject them that is their own choice. It makes little difference to me and has no immediate effect on my life as near as I can tell.

    June 7, 2012 at 7:45 am |
    • Primewonk

      " I know what I believe is true"

      No. You THINK what you believe is true. That's why faith is, in essence, an opinion unsupported by facts or evidence.

      June 7, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • a person of the Name

      We know it to be true. You come too late on us to say it false.
      I myself have heard, seen, and felt to much. For it not to be real.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:02 am |
    • sam stone

      "I myself have heard, seen, and felt to much. For it not to be real."

      I had the same experience when I had a bellyfull of magic mushrooms

      June 7, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • Madtown

      I know what I believe is true.
      -----–
      Apalling, yet highly entertaining, arrogance. For anyone to suggest they "know" anything about these types of questions, the height of elitist arrogance. It's ok to not know. Even though it's human nature to want to know, these are details we can't know, at least at this time. Your complete disregard of logic completely invalidates most everything you claim. Continue to believe it, just stop being such a fool, show you have a functional mind, and admit you don't know anything for certain.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:13 am |
    • Primewonk

      " I myself have heard, seen, and felt to much. For it not to be real."

      This is what happens when you have people who purposefully choose to be ignorant about science.

      I could apply a small weak electrical stimulation to a specific area of your brain, and you would believe you were having an out-of-body experience. I could move the probe to a slightly different area and you would swear you were traveling towards "the light". Move again, and you would see ghosts and monsters. Move again and you would see "greys" – the little alien dudes.

      Glossolalia has been linked with temporal lobe spikes.

      Sorry, but this is an example of why you folks are wrong.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • Sim34

      Rev.
      "I do not debate because I am secure in what I believe. I know what I believe is true."

      delusion |diˈloō zh ən|
      noun
      an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder

      June 7, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • YeahRight

      "A thought to consider without a typical ego response"

      Your posts reek of ego which is why you continue to post this crap over and over again. DUH! Which is why your whole point is moot. What an idiot and a hypocrite.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • Just Claims, No Truth

      "I know what I believe is true. I will share my beliefs but if people choose to dismiss or reject them that is their own choice."

      Rev.,

      You may believe them to be true but you can't prove them true and that is your real reason for not debating. Name one other expert in any other area that would refuse to debate? You know there are so many holes in your supernatural beliefs and you don't want them poked at.

      Beliefs are not a choice, a claim is made, information is given to support the claim and people either accept the claim, reject the claim, or it is undetermined until more and better information is provided. The reason religion says belief is a choice is because they require "faith" to be accepted as evidence and that does to some extent require choice.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • YeahRight

      "I myself have heard, seen, and felt to much. For it not to be real."

      Actually it's just a chemical reaction in your brain. People who don't believe in a god but simply meditate can get the exact same feeling. No god needed.

      June 7, 2012 at 11:29 am |
  9. Iceman6161

    We confess that the Pope has the POWER OF CHANGING SCRIPTURE and of adding to it and taking from it, according to HIS will." Roman catholic confessons for Protestants Oath, Article XI, Now this is one of many that shows this religion has been molded into the RCC way. WHY are their only 4 gospels? Roman Emperor Irenaeus said that their are only 4 zones of the world, and 4 directions, and other things that add up to 4, it was rumored that their were more than 30 gospels and over 800 books followers of the way was reading before the councils of nicean.

    June 7, 2012 at 3:01 am |
    • jungleboo

      Thank you Iraneaus. This Article XI is indeed the fundamental backbone of "Holy Mother Church", as we were taught to call our dear old Catholic Religion. It is astonishing that Fundamentalists, who are the great-great-great-great-great grandchildren of Holy Mother Church seem to be quite unaware of the philosophical architecture and literal leanings of their professed religion. Molded by man. And not much different from a taco with everything on it, albeit 1800 years old. It is high time for some fresh food from The Garden! Merlot with that, please?

      June 7, 2012 at 7:41 am |
    • Cq

      Just as aside, boys, but it's interesting that all protestant churches can trace their ancestry back to the Catholic Church of 500 or so years ago, but that "Holy Mother Church" is still around, however slightly changed from what it was back then. Isn't that a wonderful analogy for biological evolution!

      June 7, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • WASP

      @ice: "We confess that the Pope has the POWER OF CHANGING SCRIPTURE"

      major flaw in that logic is written in the bible. Revelation 22:18-9 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

      so in the blunt truth of it, the pope and all these new versions of the bible have violated "god's" word. good to know. 🙂

      June 7, 2012 at 8:50 am |
    • jungleboo

      A tool of control by any other name would still smell.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Bet

      RCC doctrine teaches that the pope is infallible, that his decisions are directly from god himself. So the RCC can change the bible and the rules whenever they want and claim it's god's word. It's a nice little loophole that's been exploited for 2000 years.

      As a child in parochial school, I questioned changing of rules, particularly those associated with fasting and abstinence. Breaking those was a "mortal sin", so you went straight to hell if you died with one of them "on your soul". I would ask the nuns why it was okay not to fast for twelve hours after Vatican II, when someone who "broke their fast" prior to that was be in hell. I was told that "it was a sin at the time they did it, so it's fair".

      Even a seven year old could see the unfairness of eternal damnation for some people, when overnight, their behavior became acceptable to god. At this point I was usually told that it was "one of god's mysteries" and I would understand it after I died.

      Other religious groups do the same thing, they may not have a pope, but they interpret the bible however is convenient for them in order to keep people coming to church.

      In the end, religion is a money making business that exploits the fear and ignorance of people in order to separate them from their cash. It dangles the biggest mother carrot of them all, eternal life.

      .

      June 7, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • Bet

      That should be "would be" not "was be".

      June 7, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
  10. Gonna say it again...

    Haters gonna hate.

    June 7, 2012 at 12:31 am |
  11. LittleHero

    CHALLENGE:

    One valid legal argument NOT to overturn DOMA?

    I don't care how many conservatives are on the bench, this is a no-brainer.

    June 6, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • Evangelical

      We shall see.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • LittleHero

      The Consti.tution was created to protect all of us from the tyranny of the majority. It doesn't matter the political or religious leanings of the justices on the bench, because foremost they are Americans and there is no possible legal argument to deny rights granted to everyone else because they belong to a minority. DOMA will be overturned for the exact same reasons that interracial marriage bans were overturned. To NOT strike down DOMA would allow the states rights groups to bring up the idea of returning to the days before civil rights.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • Evangelical

      You obviously know little about the workings of the Court. All opinions usually break along ideological lines. You tell me the issue being decided and who wrote the majority opinion and 90% of the time, I can tell you how the case turned out.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • LittleHero

      I will explain – states nor the federal govt can ignore legal contracts made in any state. There is some wiggle room in this clause (and I am paraphrasing), but you would have to demonstrate real harm to society. If any state allows gay marriage, it will have to be recognized in every state and by the federal govt.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Well, as I said, we will see.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • LittleHero

      So you are implying that you have a brilliant legal strategy to show that gay marriage is a real demonstrable harm to society and you are holding off until you are called in for your opinion?

      June 6, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • LittleHero

      Don't worry my friends in the GBLT constellation – your unions will be recognized very soon, not because of political will, but because it is dictated by logic and reason.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      yup and i call it the restorations of our rights and traditions.
      its just logical love is good,.... some times

      June 6, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • Evangelical

      "So you are implying that you have a brilliant legal strategy to show that gay marriage is a real demonstrable harm to society and you are holding off until you are called in for your opinion?"

      I'm not implying anything. I'm not a lawyer and certainly not a lawyer on this case. I will let it play out and see. I am not worried because I am confident that the conservatives on the court will uphold DOMA. As to legal strategies, that is up to the lawyers.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • Peace is gone

      SCOTUS is filled with enough traitors now so that there is a very real likelihood that they will uphold DOMA.

      These are dark times for nice people. All the haters have corrupted our government beyond the pale.
      There are no guarantees unless you have the right people in your pocket.
      We will indeed see eventually what is waiting in the wings on DOMA.
      I would not bet any money on the outcome either way, myself.

      June 7, 2012 at 12:37 am |
  12. Sam Yaza

    God loves the L3sb!@n FemXMale and FtoM

    Thomas 114) Simon Peter said to Him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are
    not worthy of Life."
    Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her
    male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you
    males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the
    Kingdom of Heaven."

    June 6, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      that right he changed his wife to a man,... K!nk^!!!

      June 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Posting quotes from heretical works is pointless.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      define heretic,.. is it things the church written out,... you know i actually liked the gospel of Mary Magdalene,... if i read that 13 years ago i may have still been a Christian,.. nice one peter any ways back to character,.. have you read Toma,.. their is some really good stuff there and the same filth just picked it back up my self,... you should really read the stuff the Vatican removed,.. unless you think their dogma was right,... maybe you will even find out the secret behind my name,... i swear so closed minded you are

      June 6, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • Bet

      Evangelical still thinks that the sun revolves around the earth.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:38 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      watch it
      thats heresy

      June 6, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • Bet

      I know, I'm in danger of being excommunicated. Again.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:45 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      yeah well look on the bright side its way more fun on the outside

      June 6, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • Bet

      Oh, I know, believe me, I know! Lol!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      posting from a book to people who do not accept the validity of the source book is pointless

      June 7, 2012 at 5:39 am |
    • Cq

      "Heretical", in this sense, means a form of Christianity that was stamped out by the dominant one. In the early centuries of the religion there was far greater variety, especially in they way people saw Jesus. The line that got the power of Rome behind it was able to force the others out of existence, and selected what books to form a Bible out of, the ones that agreed with it's already-formed theology.

      This would be the same line that soon became the RCC that evangelicals now accuse of being non-biblical, as ironic as that sounds. Wouldn't that suggest that one of these "pagan" sects may have been as close to the "true" form of Christianity that fundamentalists talk about that has ever existed?

      June 7, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • Sam Yaza

      so you wrote it out because you didn't approve that makes it heresy

      Revelation 22:19
      And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

      Proverbs 30:5-6
      "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
      Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."

      June 8, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
  13. jungleboo

    Re-post, cause it took me a while to type...to a poster who asked us to be a little less strident:

    Again, Peacechaser, We are vocal and adamant that the fundamentalists who are creating this stir do not change the tide that we have been working for for the last forty years (ummm... 40 yrs. in the desert?)

    We are intent on having our civil rights granted by the Federal Government of the USA. I have been with my partner in a stable relationship for thirty five (35) years, and yet there is no legal recognition for us as a couple with the IRS, with Social Security, with hospital care, real estate transfer, etc. There are dozens and dozens of rights anticipated by straight married couples, and we are ignored when it comes to that.

    Hell be damned, we expect these rights to be granted exactly like the blacks expected theirs in the '60s, and women expected their right to vote at the turn of the 20th century. Sure, we get a little rude in our posts. Wouldn't you if you had so much at stake and you were faced with abject stupidity?

    June 6, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Ho-mos-exuals don't want just legal rights. They want acceptance by society. They want society to view their depraved relationships as equivalent to heter-os-exual relationships. Well, acceptance is something they will never have even if they force legal rights.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • Bet

      They are already accepted by society. It's only the people who still cling to bronze age ideas of morality who refuse to accept the real world. Sucks to be you.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Evangelical

      @Bet

      If they are so accepted, how come ho-mos-exual marriage was voted down in EVERY state where it was put up to vote? Don't confuse Hollywood acceptance with acceptance by society at large. Hollywood has always had depraved values.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • Bet

      Because of hysterical hate mongers like you, who lie and instill fear in people who don't know any better. But as more videos like this are seen, your ranks grow smaller and smaller. People are now seeing you for what you are, hateful, bigoted, ignorant and immoral.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • Evangelical

      LMAO. Typical ho-mos-exual tactic: calling everyone who opposes them a bigot and a hate mongerer. Well guess what, I am a bigot against ped-o-philia and murder too. I'm willing to bet that you are also, but if it isn't you, then it's ok I guess. You are also a bigot against Christians. So where does the name calling get you? Nowhere and fast.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
    • Bet

      Wrong, Evangelina, I'm a married, straight woman who supports gay rights, so does my husband. So does nearly everyone I know. And, I'm older. The younger generation cares even less about who's gay and who isn't, so you and your breed of ignorant bigots will die out soon like the dinosaurs you are.

      Typical hate mongering hom.o.phobe, comparing being gay to murder and pedophilia. Trying every desperate tactic to spread your ho.mo.pho.bic agenda, including lies and hysteria. You glory in it because it's all you have. Enjoy your last gasps, you ridiculous fossil.

      June 7, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • Bet

      Evangelina has been writing letters to the editor again:

      June 7, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      You said, "Typical ho-mos-exual tactic: calling everyone who opposes them a bigot and a hate mongerer."
      No, just calling them what they are. If you try to force your religious rules on society, you are a bigot.

      You said, "Well guess what, I am a bigot against ped-o-philia and murder too."
      Are you really that stupid?

      Pedophilia and murder cause harm to others. There is good reason to be against those. There is real harm done by religious zealots like yourself by discriminating against hoosexuals. There is good reason to fight that bigotry.

      You said, "You are also a bigot against Christians."
      You are free to believe in your imaginary friend. Nobody is trying to tell you that you can't live your life according to your fairy tale. Last I checked, stupidity wasn't being outlawed anywhere.

      You are free not to engage in homosexual acts, if you don't feel like it. You are free to worship that monster you call your god. The only thing rational people do is try to prevent you from forcing your delusions on others and society as a whole.

      June 7, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Evangelical

      LinCA,

      I couldn't care less what a ho-mos-exual thinks of me. I cling to my God, not men. And what is the common thread that runs through ho-mos-exuality, ped-o-philia and murder? They are all sinful behaviors. They are all morally wrong. And, no, it has never been the case that if it doesn't hurt anyone, it is not morally wrong. Try that argument on the police next time they catch you smoking weed in the basement of your own house. Some things are morally wrong just because they are morally wrong.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:28 am |
    • sam stone

      never is a long time, evangelical. bigotry dies hard, but it does die. f off

      June 7, 2012 at 5:41 am |
    • sam stone

      "Typical ho-mos-exual tactic: calling everyone who opposes them a bigot and a hate mongerer."

      They are not calling everyone who opposes marriage equality a bigot and hate mongerer. We are calling YOU a bigot and a hate mongerer. Shove your persection complex and your bible up your rectum

      June 7, 2012 at 5:45 am |
    • sam stone

      how is smoking weed morally wrong?

      June 7, 2012 at 5:47 am |
    • Madtown

      I cling to my God, not men. And what is the common thread that runs through ho-mos-exuality, ped-o-philia and murder? They are all sinful behaviors. They are all morally wrong.
      -------
      LMAO!! Typical religious nut case tactics. Morally wrong according to who, you? Your God? Your God has never made a statement as such. You have, but you also don't matter in the least, to anyone but youself.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • YeahRight

      "I cling to my God, not men"

      It was prejudice men that wrote the bible not your god. LMAO So you do cling to "men!" LOL!

      June 7, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • LinCA

      @Evangelical

      You said, "I couldn't care less what a ho-mos-exual thinks of me."
      You seem to also be lacking a moral compass.

      You said, "I cling to my God, not men."
      You cling to a thousands of years old fable. You cling to the ancient version of the Tooth Fairy. You've checked rational thought at the door.

      You said, "And what is the common thread that runs through ho-mos-exuality, ped-o-philia and murder? They are all sinful behaviors."
      Whether something is considered a "sin" isn't relevant in a civilized society. Your definition of "sin" only applies to you. What you consider "sin" can only determine what you do, or don't do. It can't ever determine what anyone else can, or can't do.

      If you feel that homosexuality is a "sin", you are free not to engage in it. If someone sexualy assaults you, and forces you to have homosexual sex, that is rape. That is immoral because it forces you to have sex against your will, causing you harm, not because the sex is homosexual in nature.

      You said, "They are all morally wrong."
      No they are not. Homosexuality between consenting adults, isn't. The only rational basis for determining whether any activity is morally wrong, is the effects it has. You feeling "icky" about two men kissing, or you being grossed out by the thought of homosexual sex, aren't rising to the level of a rational basis to prohibit those activities.

      You said, "And, no, it has never been the case that if it doesn't hurt anyone, it is not morally wrong."
      If there is no negative effect, there is no reason to prohibit the practice. The effects of a particular activity, both positive and negative, should be the only things considered.

      You said, "Try that argument on the police next time they catch you smoking weed in the basement of your own house."
      Smoking weed in your own home should be legal. Driving under the influence of it, should not.

      You said, "Some things are morally wrong just because they are morally wrong."
      Yes. Religious condemnation of others is clearly morally wrong.

      As a society, we have to determine the net benefit of any activity in our determination of whether to restrict or ban it. Relying on scientific data is the only rational way to determine whether or not an activity has a net benefit. Religion is never a rational basis for those decision.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • sam stone

      Evangelical: You do not speak for god. Now, slither off under a rock

      June 7, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • sam stone

      I always figured that Evangelical "clung to men", due to his focusing on this "sin".

      June 7, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Bet

      Evangelina belongs to the Church of the Hairy Palm.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
  14. wrm

    Did someone redefine hate and I missed it?

    This is perhaps intolerant, and certainly not something I agree with (although I don't believe in heaven either). It doesn't sound like hate though.

    June 6, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • Drew

      What else is hate besides unyielding intolerance?

      June 6, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Does no one read the dictionary anymore before commenting on what words mean?

      hate |hāt|
      verb [ with obj. ]
      feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone): the boys hate each other | he was particularly hated by the extreme right.
      • have a strong aversion to (something): he hates flying | [ with infinitive ] : I'd hate to live there.
      • [ with infinitive ] used politely to express one's regret or embarrassment at doing something: I hate to bother you.
      • [ no obj. ] (hate on) informal express strong dislike for; criticize or abuse: I can't hate on them for trying something new.
      noun
      intense or passionate dislike: feelings of hate and revenge.
      • [ as modifier ] denoting hostile actions motivated by intense dislike or prejudice: a hate campaign.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • Cq

      If they don't think that gays are going to heaven, then they believe that gays deserve to go to hell, and anyone who thinks so little of someone as to think they deserve eternal torture must hate that person, right?

      June 7, 2012 at 12:02 am |
  15. trex

    .......It is very tough for me to see plain as day, that HATE CAN BE FOUND IN CHURCH PEWS AND PULPITS.......................I guess I'm just innocent, and believe in my Father, Son, and Holy Sprit, rather than the talking heads of Fox News..........................

    June 6, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • trex

      ....and BTW,....I do NOT believe in "magic underwear", or that my GOD is flesh and blood and lives on some planet, OR OTHER SUCH MORMONISMS.......

      June 6, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • trex

      But, I respect those that believe what follows below......................

      June 6, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  16. in God we trust...all others bring data

    Please don't judge Christians by these horrible, hateful people. It's like judging all Muslims by al Queda.

    What these idiots forget is that there are many Christian churches that accept LGBTs and same sec marriages. Some LGBTs are ministers. Gees even the Catholic church acknowledges that people are born gay....although they have very far to go

    June 6, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • Ham23

      The more stories like this the smaller the field of "real Christians" seems to get. The world is starting to get the impression that the good Christians are a very small group indeed.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
  17. peacechaser

    Jesus does not equal hate. I admit there are some so called Christians out there that give Jesus a bad name and are an embarrassment to other followers of Jesus. They indeed espouse nothing more than hatred and socio- politicalagendas neither of which have anything to do with the real Jesus. Oppositional hatred of a different group of persons who oppose your beliefs is not acceptable. You have become just like them. You just have a different platform. If you want tolerance and acceptance, you have to give it to others even if you do not agree with them. You cannot ask for something that you yourself don't give. That would make you a hypocrite. Be the bigger person.

    June 6, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • jungleboo

      Again, Peacechaser, We are vocal and adamant that the fundamentalists who are creating this stir do not change the tide that we have been working for for the last forty years (ummm... 40 yrs. in the desert?)

      We are intent on having our civil rights granted by the Federal Government of the USA. I have been with my partner in a stable relationship for thirty five (35) years, and yet there is no legal recognition for us as a couple with the IRS, with Social Security, with hospital care, real estate transfer, etc. There are dozens and dozens of rights anticipated by straight married couples, and we are ignored when it comes to that.

      Hell be damned, we expect these rights to be granted exactly like the blacks expected theirs in the '60s, and women expected their right to vote at the turn of the 20th century. Sure, we get a little rude in our posts. Wouldn't you if you had so much at stake and you were faced with abject stupidity?

      June 6, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Jesus did tell people to forsake their families to follow him. He even told one guy not to bury his dead father. Doesn't sound very loving to me.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      Mathew 10:34-36
      Luke 14:26
      Thomas 1:99
      Matthew 8:21-22

      Jesus hate families [fact]

      June 6, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • Madtown

      there are some so called Christians out there that give Jesus a bad name and are an embarrassment to other followers of Jesus
      ------–
      Good post. Reference the posts on this story from "Evangelical", and you have a perfect example of the pathetic type of person you're talking about.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:26 am |
  18. midwest rail

    The Big Lie as practiced by the modern faux Christian – " love the sinner, hate the sin ". Then they go on their merry way spewing hatred, ignorance, and bigotry.

    June 6, 2012 at 6:37 pm |
  19. Kindness

    For you.
    A thought to consider without a typical ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome

    June 6, 2012 at 6:07 pm |
    • Cq

      "The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence."

      Do you apply that to all parts of your life? Do you take medicines that you know don't have positive studies supporting their use in humans? Do you invest in stocks that don't have proven track records? Most of the Christians I know try, like everyone else, to make very prudent decisions when it comes to health, financial and a lot of other issues where evidence plays a very big part in their decision making. So, it begs the question: Why stop applying it for just this one thing? Afraid of what you might discover to be the "smarter" choice?

      June 6, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • a person of the Name

      We have our evidence, God has reveiled Himself to us in many different ways. Just what we see is the power of God, most others see as chance or luck. Most of us know that its God's hand.

      June 6, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "We have our evidence, God has reveiled Himself to us in many different ways. Just what we see is the power of God, most others see as chance or luck. Most of us know that its God's hand."

      Only 33% of the people on the planet are Christians so NO most people don't' know it's a "god's" hand. LOL! Oops you just broke one of the ten commandments with your lies. 😉

      June 6, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • jungleboo

      If you have renounced reason and logic, you have renounced the sole attributes that separate us from animals. You call it "faith", but it is actually an escape hatch that allows you to say and do hurtful things to your neighbors all the while feeling superior, as if YOU have inside information. The rest of us are stuck with your presence in the community, reminding us that real equality is ever out of reach because the very nature of equality is based on rationality and logic, the very human attributes that you have ditched. We might as well try to make sense talking to a dog or a cat as to try to make sense, (logical discussion, rational point by point debate) with a fundamentalist Christian. At least the dog or the cat continues to be a welcome part of the household. The Christian disgraces himself and smiles.

      June 6, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • Timmuh

      The bible is a book. You can't claim it to be true and correct because it says so in the bible. Moreover, evidence does not follow faith. Faith is dumb, whereas reasonable expectations based on evidence is smart. Tell me one other thing in life that you just believe on faith?

      June 6, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • Timmuh

      @Yeah Right, you write: "We have our evidence, God has reveiled Himself to us in many different ways. Just what we see is the power of God, most others see as chance or luck. Most of us know that its God's hand." At the moment I have no idea what religion you do in fact follow because all theists from all religions claim exactly the same thing. When you say that god reveals himself to you, do you mean you actually hear his voice or see him, or do you mean the hair stands up on the back of your neck in church? Goose bumps are a leftover evolutionary trait which made our hairier forefathers look bigger went confronted by dangerous predators.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • Timmuh

      Sorry Yeah Right, that wasn't meant for you.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Dear Kindness,

      Inadvertently, I suspect, in your message, the things you criticize are precisely what we see religion as. When you talk about a "ponzi scheme", can you not see the pyramid scheme of religion? I mean, it's hard to get past it since the very top of it is god and he is a trinity. See a triangle anywhere here? At the risk of overstating the obvious... sheep at the bottom, deacons one level up, priests or ministers next.... and so on.

      You mention ego a lot, but I do believe the irony is lost on you.

      ego |ˈēgō|
      noun ( pl. egos )
      a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance: a boost to my ego.
      • Psychoanalysis the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal ident.ity. Compare with id and superego.
      • Philosophy (in metaphysics) a conscious thinking subject.

      Religion and a belief in god is ALL about personal ident.ity. It is about believing oneself to be the holder of truth and rightness above others. If it were not so, you would not feel the need to convince others of this truth. When you are unconscious, where does this belief go? It disappears with your consciousness.

      You speak to us as if we haven't read the bible. Many of us come from a christian background. And in fact we have broken free of the "matrix" of illusion that held us. The light of truth IS there for anyone willing to let go of the story of their ego, this is true. Unfortunately, it is not true for you yet.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Kindness,

      Faith is not a virtue, it is a poison. Christianity gives people the disease and then offers the cure.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • Cq

      a person of the Name
      It's just your opinion that what you see is the power of God. Unless you can somehow prove otherwise the rest of us are fully justified in seeing it as mere chance or luck.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
  20. Cyric

    Read it, the Torah, Koran, Bible are all chock full of hate. Cause they were written by hateful men.

    June 6, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • Nii

      Yes! the hateful men wrote the Bible! Or is it the Quran? Do u know that Jews use only the OT? Look get serious! The Bible n Quran are vastly different books with different premises! I love u as myself!

      June 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • TerriL

      Yes, all those books are full of hate and have been used as a weapon to promote hate and rule others for centuries.

      June 6, 2012 at 6:10 pm |
    • Nii

      IF THE TWO OF YOU CAN SHOW ME HOW IF I LOVE MY NEIGHBOR AS MYSELF I WILL BE SEEKING POWER AND HARM THEN I CAN STOP BEING A XTIAN!

      June 6, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • Cq

      Nii
      But, do Christians actually love their gay neighbors if they treat them so shabbily? There's a lot of groups who disagree with Christian beliefs and are regarded by Christians as "wrong", or even "dangerous". Is it love to call people who merely disagree with you these things?

      June 6, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • SweetGenius

      You don't know anything, you have zero understanding of scriptures or God.

      June 6, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • jungleboo

      @ Sweet genius. Ummmm, doesn't everybody?

      June 6, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Nii

      CQ
      I think the problem with America is that to tell a man u think he is wrong is called hatred!
      The two of them said the Bible is full of hatred! Towards who? By your flimsy standard towards all of us! Why? For all the bad things we do!
      It then offers us AGAPE love in Christ! I love u as myself!

      June 6, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Nii

      Telling them that you think they are wrong is not hatred. Actively legislating to marginalize their rights based on your perceived sense of wrong, and on religious ground is not only hate, but unconsti.tutional.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Nii

      HAWAII
      I told u b4 even in Indo-Bhuddhist cultures where gay relationships r accepted marriage has been a straight affair cos it protects de procreative functions of society! There is nothing that says its a right anywhere in the world! Freedom is a right not marriage!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      And why do you think that a union recognized by the government and afforded all the benefits thereof is a privelage?

      June 6, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Nii

      HAWAII
      Freedom was a right for the slaves cos they had freeborn blacks in Africa. Show me where they had people who were born married in this world! Marriage is a glorified selection process for procreation and confers privileges not rights! I love u as myself n I love gays as myself!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      So then people who are born sterile should not be allowed to marry?

      June 6, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • Nii

      HAWAII
      Don't be simplistic about this! Not everyone is a Congressman, Judge, Senator or the President. These all come with privileges not rights! Do u have SS bodyguards or fly free on the AF1. Likewise marriage is for certain people and confered certain privileges! Without freedom u r endangered!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Nii

      That's a lovely way of not answering the question, even though you are the one who made it simplistic by stating that marriage is merely a process for procreation. So answer the question Nii, or do you realize that your comment eliminated marriage as an actual commitment between two adults who love eachother, which according to you, is supposed to be the most important thing?

      June 6, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Cq

      Nii
      Again, the problem here is that religious types deny that being gay isn't a choice. Somehow, they are able to say that all the testimony of gay people, and the consensus of the medical and scientific community are, once again, all wrong simply because they disagree with what the Bible says. For a people who place so much weight on personal experience and feelings to lend credence to their beliefs they sure seem to ignore everyone else's.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @Nii, "Show me where they had people who were born married in this world!"

      Show me people that were born with jobs in the world, though don't we respect the right of everyone capable to work regardless of se.x, race or religion?

      If you want to to really really discuss protecting the "procreation" side of marriage, you have to a) completely disregard artificial insemination and the other means of procreating, b) disregard the fact that so many marriages in the world are damaging to a child and a gay couple can provide a better living condition for children as does my gay sister and her partner by adopting children from 3rd world countries, c) assume that marriage is the cause or instigator of procreation... which is absurd when you consider that we've been procreating a lot longer than we've had an insti.tution called marriage. d) that being gay is a choice, or being married will keep someone from being gay, or that fewer people will be gay if we reserve marriage for straight couples.

      Again, another example of how religion tries to whitewash the reality of the situation to provide a more comfortable story and make them feel better about their choices.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:25 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      @Nii... Oh, and in case that's not clear enough for you, we have this thing in America called, the Declaration of Independence. Take it away Thomas Jefferson,

      "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

      June 7, 2012 at 1:29 am |
    • Nii

      CQ
      There u go again! If everyone had the right to a job there wudn't be any welfare wud there! AND I SAID SELECTION PROCESS NOT PROCESS!
      And O lest u forget u can Google Ghanaian culture or marriage law! We allow polygamy! The consent sought for the wedding does not show true love!

      June 7, 2012 at 2:37 am |
    • Nii

      While u r spraying aimless bullets around, I don't consider ur sister gay by any stretch of the imagination! Second man has been marrying since primeval times cos he's a social animal and since apes do it he did it too! Also u dont know how bsurd is sounds when a man refuses to take care of his kid

      June 7, 2012 at 2:46 am |
    • Iceman6161

      We confess that the Pope has the POWER OF CHANGING SCRIPTURE and of adding to it and taking from it, according to HIS will." Roman catholic confessons for Protestants Oath, Article XI, Now this is one of many that shows this religion has been molded into the RCC way. WHY are their only 4 gospels? Roman Emperor Irenaeus said that their are only 4 zones of the world, and 4 directions, and other things that add up to 4, it was rumored that their were more than 30 gospels and over 800 books followers of the way was reading before the councils of nicean.
      research!!!!!!

      June 7, 2012 at 3:04 am |
    • Nii

      GODFREENOW
      OF Course, u do realise that the inalienable rights that ur Consti.tution grants are Life, Liberty n de Pursuit of happiness. It never includes marriage. The closest thing that comes to marriage as a right is right 2 own property! So when u singing rights, learn 2 dance privileges 2o!

      June 7, 2012 at 3:08 am |
    • sam stone

      "I think the problem with America is that to tell a man u think he is wrong is called hatred!"

      You have no authority to speak for god.

      June 7, 2012 at 6:55 am |
    • Cq

      Nii
      Just because some people allow polygamy in one corner of the world it doesn't belittle the love most couples, both straight and gay, feel for each other here.

      People don't have a right to a job, but they have the right to work for a living with the understanding that they're responsible to get their own job. Nobody is advocating that the state is responsible for matching gays up for marriage.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • Nii

      Cq
      I didn't say polygamists don't love themselves! In fact in my experience polygamous relationships r often love-filled with respect to boot! The de facto polygamy where u marry one n have love affairs is a failure of romantic love.
      I am glad that u r starting to see the holes in marriage rights!

      June 7, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Nii

      Cq
      Also I feel the question that one is hounded with when u express charitable love is wholly unwarranted! I know gays in my country! I don't seek their death! I don't even care if they said they were MR & MR whatever! After all we are all sinners and its by God's grace that I can speak for Him!

      June 7, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • ...

      Nii is stupid

      June 7, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • Cq

      Nii
      Gays are human like everyone else, so they make mistakes and hurt people also like everyone else, but their being gay isn't a part of this any more than your straight, of left-handed, or tall, or any other natural quality one might have.

      Again, I'm reminded of the Christian habit of stating that we atheists don't get their belief because we haven't lived it (a false one considering how many of us were once believers like them), yet here are supposedly straight Christians telling gays that they're wrong about their own condition. If you're not gay how the hell do you know it isn't a choice?

      Let me guess; the Bible says it isn't a choice so you go with that, right? Tell me, do you believe that the Bible was written by gay men accurately reflecting their condition? Let me guess, no, right? So, what you have is more straight men's opinion on what gay people must be like according to their straight men's imagination, which is negatively prejudiced due to their inability to understand how people can be attracted to others of their own gender. That's about as rational as the many negative opinions white people had about blacks, isn't it?

      June 7, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Boy Nii, I don't know how they do it in Africa, but in America marriage is a pursuit of happiness (not that it actually works out that way). We don't consider people to be property. You again would have to assume the old sense of marriage which is joining of properties. Not everyone getting married today joins property(research prenuptial agreements) or has property to join. So are you suggesting that they don't have the right to marry?

      You also seem to be waffling on marriage being about love (i.e., happiness) and property (i.e., a logical financial decision). And which one of these do you think gays should not have the right to?

      June 7, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.